Rat Race (New AGC Game Idea)

[zforrestal]

Hello again!
The idea: Players place their bets (I was thinking 1k ante, subject to chance) in EC Tunnel. Each player who placed a bet has a chance to win the prize. First person to hail the character I announce to find wins the 90% of the prize. (10% for setting up the game, percentage subject to change)

All players will be required to make level one characters for the race.

Groups are allowed, but only people who have placed bets can /hail and claim the prize. If you want to group and split the cash that is allowed. Splitting the cash is on your own accord. Cash goes to the first person to /hail.

People are going to say porters and trackers are always going to win. Besides being able to use outside sources to help my other idea was to lower the payout if the character can port/track.

Let me know if you are interested in something of this nature and any ideas to tweak it. Thank you! - This is a rough draft of the idea open to suggestions!

Or maybe a Fungi Tunic Rat Race same concept but 5k buy-in?

(Also everyone starts in Tunnel at the start of the race)

[Twelveguage]

I remember something like this being done back on live when i played. One of the main requirement they had was that all participants had to be level 1 chars. Still had people trying to deck out the level 1's in whatever they thought would allow them to win, but it evened the playing field as far as self buffs/abilities went. My second suggestion is if you don't being a level 1 a requirement, then avoid cities so that for instance iksars aren't required to run into Freeport or anything else run into Cabilis (that run from ec tun would be a helluva long race though) mass amounts of level 1's running through dreadlands does sound like an entertaining afternoon to me.

[zforrestal]

I wouldn't mind doing it with level 1 only, and actually sounds like the best idea to do. So lets add that to the rules for now. Any other ideas, please comment!

[zforrestal]

Ok here's what I've gotten so far for the idea.

Bet 5k (Minimum 30 players)
Everyone makes a level 1 Human Warrior and meets me in EC Tunnel.
Find the Target (A player somewhere out in the world)
First one to Hail Target Player wins Fungi Tunic.
Use any means necessary to find the Target (Only people who bet can claim the prize)
(By any means necessary, no breaking any p99 rules. No 2 boxing!)

I will declare the area where the Target can be found before the start of the race. The Target will be moving somewhere inside the zone called and will not move outside of the zone. (This is also not limited to being invis, having movement speed, disguised as something else)

Players can bet side bets on who they think will win the race.

If you can think of any other rules I should add please comment. I'd like to do the Fungi Rat Race soon :)

[August]

So if i'm reading this right, you basically just want to get 150k+ for your fungi tunic citing the additional 50k+ as your right because you have a character logged in somewhere that needs to be hailed by a bunch of other people who by and large are gambling 5k away?

To put this into perspective, Let's think about putting this into a return on investment. You know that when you gamble, your odds of winning are less than 50% (why else would there be casinos...) and this can be easily represented as a ROI per gamble-game.

For instance, there are a ton of people out there who do casinos... What's the standard? 565+ you double your bet, maybe the 777 gets you 10X your bet?

So, put 1000 down. There's a 43.4% chance that you will win 2000. There's a .1% chance you will win 10000pp.

That's .434*2000 + .001*100000 = 878pp back for every 1000pp you spend.

Now let's look at what you're proposing. 30 people minimum, 5k entry fee. Let's suppose value of a fungi tunic is sitting at 100k(that it is).

With 30 people, assuming everything is equal, you have a 1/30 chance of winning a tunic.

Your ROI for the game is 1/30*1000 = 3333.33pp for each person, and you're charging them 5k each. Let's normalize to get to 1k:

(3333.33)/5 = 666.666pp

So in this gamble game, you can expect to get 666.666pp (devil) for every 1k that you spend. Your standard casino is operating on margins twice as slim. And that's assuming only 30 people (minimum!!!!) sign up. Your odds of winning get lower and the prize payout does not increase.

Verdict = Greedy.

Got it. would not play.

[Swish]

The best player run events are free events, some even put their own pixels in as a prize etc.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

The best player run events are free events, some even put their own pixels in as a prize etc.

Second.

Enough with these gamble games. Could have sworn there was talk a while back about these being a major front for illicit Runes Mithril Tunic farming operations.

[Daldaen]

Second.

Enough with these gamble games. Could have sworn there was talk a while back about these being a major front for illicit Runes Mithril Tunic farming operations.

This is truth. Also similar deal with the Bazaar, players who bought Plat would put up Fishing Grubs @ 250k and would magically have a very nice player buy 4 fishing grubs from them for 1000k. TOTALLY LEGIT.

Also since these games are merely a mode of profit for the OP, please use the EC Tunnel section of forums for any further gambling game ideas.

[Swish]

I think the thread was well intended, but I can see the concern :p

[zforrestal]

Verdict = Greedy.

Got it. would not play.



I want to point out, I'm never hiding the fact that there is a profit to be made. I think making a profit on setting up an event like this regularly shouldn't come as a surprise. It takes time and effort to make sure everyone who plays has an even chance at winning, and just time in general to set up. Profits are only going to be used to set up other events, and for the free giveaways I already provide. Hate all you want on the fact I want to make money on providing a fun experience and to provide more.

Call it Greedy or whatever you want to call it, I'm just trying to set up fun for people in EC. I have no use for plat except to offer games like this to people for fun.

[TheUnbeliever]

You are winning a fungi.. even if the host is making profit, it doesnt matter. This is an event for a person who likes to bet just like any other casino game. Or even people who just like to "test their luck". He is giving someone a chance to win a FUNGI (~100k) for a buy in of 5k and like a previous poster said a chance 1/30? Thats a great chance IMO.

I think this is a wonderful opportunity and has not been offered yet. Those who like to have fun and want a chance at an ultra expensive item then 5k isnt really an issue. Why not look at the positive of this event. It breaks the redundant farming/grinding and gives mid level and maybe even low level characters a chance to become wealthy.

I will be signing up not just because of the prize but because of the fun it will bring.
Good Luck to all that enter and participate!

[zforrestal]

Cool idea. I was going to throw down a bit of what August posted, though - that margin is enough to make me less than interested.

25 people at 5k is reasonable. 30 people at 5k is reaching. Having people pay into your sales margin so you can ostensibly give away more stuff to others is not a strong sales point.

I understand, and I want it to be clear I make money to spend money to do giveaways like this and to give free things out as well, and to be able to maintain a casino for players who like them. I don't have an alt that I'm trying to tweak, I'm not part of a huge guild trying to make money for them. I'm just a guy who has fun ideas and wants to do them.

[Daldaen]

You are winning a fungi.. even if the host is making profit, it doesnt matter. This is an event for a person who likes to bet just like any other casino game. Or even people who just like to "test their luck". He is giving someone a chance to win a FUNGI (~100k) for a buy in of 5k and like a previous poster said a chance 1/30? Thats a great chance IMO.

I think this is a wonderful opportunity and has not been offered yet. Those who like to have fun and want a chance at an ultra expensive item then 5k isnt really an issue. Why not look at the positive of this event. It breaks the redundant farming/grinding and gives mid level and maybe even low level characters a chance to become wealthy.

I will be signing up not just because of the prize but because of the fun it will bring.
Good Luck to all that enter and participate!

1 Post, Registered this month. I smell a dupe account merely made to provide support to the OP.

[baalzy]

Hrm.

Bind somewhere obscure.
Collect bets.
Cast Gate.
Go AFK for a couple hours.
Check log.
Dispense reward.
Pocket the rest.

Brilliant.

[Swish]

Would want the fungi (or whatever item) on a GM, or reputable EC trader in advance if I participated :)

[August]

I understand, and I want it to be clear I make money to spend money to do giveaways like this and to give free things out as well, and to be able to maintain a casino for players who like them. I don't have an alt that I'm trying to tweak, I'm not part of a huge guild trying to make money for them. I'm just a guy who has fun ideas and wants to do them.

Let's be clear.

This is NOT a giveaway. This is a scheme to make more money off of an item than it is normally worth.

To maintain a casino takes seed capital way less than what you would earn here, and a casino by nature tends to MAKE you money, not lose you money.

No guarantee that you don't have an inside horse.

No guarantee that you will even cough up a Fungi.

Minimum entry participants at a fixed cost with no additional prize support for increased participation?

If you're being real you need to re-assess 'why' you're doing it if it's not for the money.

[zforrestal]

Would want the fungi (or whatever item) on a GM, or reputable EC trader in advance if I participated :)

I'd like to say I'm a reputable EC trader. If I could get the GM's stamp of approval I would in a heart beat. Hopefully after a few of these Rat Races I won't need GM's approval and people will just know I'm good on my word.

Let's be clear.

This is NOT a giveaway. This is a scheme to make more money off of an item than it is normally worth.

To maintain a casino takes seed capital way less than what you would earn here, and a casino by nature tends to MAKE you money, not lose you money.

No guarantee that you don't have an inside horse.

No guarantee that you will even cough up a Fungi.

Minimum entry participants at a fixed cost with no additional prize support for increased participation?

If you're being real you need to re-assess 'why' you're doing it if it's not for the money.

You bring up very valid points. Obviously unless I have a GM vouch for me this is all based on trust. (Which I hope to attain)
I'm not opposed to prize support for participation, but for me not to make a profit for taking the time setting it up, and making sure everyone has an equal chance at winning is a bit much. Maybe 50k is a bit much for hosting the event but like I said profits are going to go towards other Race items and giveaways. (I do free giveaways in EC Tunnel often) Now, lets meet in the middle what would make you (you as in everyone) want to play a game like this, and for me to be able to keep doing these for everyone? Secondary prize supports is a good start. What about other ways to help me ensure everyone has an equal chance at winning etc.

[TheUnbeliever]

actually im a real person with my own account and my own point of view. funny it seems mine differs from yours and the host is accused of duping an account.. lol. maybe i liked the idea so much i actually bothered to post a response and had never done so before.

[August]

50k for hosting the event is way too much - and let's not forget you've set this up as a 'minimum entry'. I would easily host this event for 10k.

Hell if I was bored I would host the event for free. What all is there to do besides

a) Own a Fungi
b) Own an account (free)
c) Log onto account where you said you'd be, and choose a winner when they get to you?

This consists of

a) making sure everyone who gives you money is represented as a lvl 1 toon
b) making sure that the person you give a tunic to is one of those people

This is at tops 1 hour of work. People spend more time just trying to sell a fungi tunic than this, rather it be on the forums or in EC, and get nothing more than the price of the tunic.

If you want to claim that you are using proceeds for charity, then you need to show your examples of charity. You can't say you're 'going to do giveaways' or that you've 'done giveaways' without any proof. Charitable entities tend to have to disclose where their funds are going.

What I know about you

a) You petitioned to get an ip exemption as your first post
b) You asked for advice on gearing out your first char, a bard, and ended up doing it with a guardian's mace and full mystic koada'dal by 45
c) Your only other threads are about gambling schemes and how you can make money.

You're less than reputable, by any stretch of the imagination. 'Other race items?' Pray tell - why do you need a huge profit to buy 'more' race items - that you will then also have a huge profit off of? Does this culminate in some huge robin-hood event?

The whole thing stinks.

[Spitty]

I'm not opposed to prize support for participation, but for me not to make a profit for taking the time setting it up, and making sure everyone has an equal chance at winning is a bit much. Maybe 50k is a bit much for hosting the event but like I said profits are going to go towards other Race items and giveaways.

You have an interesting approach. You're basically inventing your own profit center here based on this "giveaway" contest.

Nobody would argue that you aren't entitled to some compensation for your time, but using the words "profit" and "giveaway" in describing your concept is just going to turn people off. Arguing that it subsidizes your other giveaways doesn't do much either - it's like Ocean Spray hiking the price of grapefruit juice to subsidize their orange juice production. People who buy grapefruit juice feel slighted, and would just as rather go buy orange (i.e. sit in EC and try to hit one of your no-buy giveaways versus paying for a fungi contest).

To sell this idea, you really have to make people feel like their 5k is being used to maximize their chance at a win and not half-buying a chance at winning, and half-buying into your bank account. I don't think you're doing this yet.

[Daldaen]

Yea... I am still skeptical.

You may call me an unbeliever if you wish.

Regardless this is clearly driven by the OP's desire to profit, ergo it should go into the EC Sub-forum.

[zforrestal]

50k for hosting the event is way too much - and let's not forget you've set this up as a 'minimum entry'. I would easily host this event for 10k.

Hell if I was bored I would host the event for free. What all is there to do besides

a) Own a Fungi
b) Own an account (free)
c) Log onto account where you said you'd be, and choose a winner when they get to you?

This consists of

a) making sure everyone who gives you money is represented as a lvl 1 toon
b) making sure that the person you give a tunic to is one of those people

This is at tops 1 hour of work. People spend more time just trying to sell a fungi tunic than this, rather it be on the forums or in EC, and get nothing more than the price of the tunic.

If you want to claim that you are using proceeds for charity, then you need to show your examples of charity. You can't say you're 'going to do giveaways' or that you've 'done giveaways' without any proof. Charitable entities tend to have to disclose where their funds are going.

What I know about you

a) You petitioned to get an ip exemption as your first post
b) You asked for advice on gearing out your first char, a bard, and ended up doing it with a guardian's mace and full mystic koada'dal by 45
c) Your only other threads are about gambling schemes and how you can make money.

You're less than reputable, by any stretch of the imagination. 'Other race items?' Pray tell - why do you need a huge profit to buy 'more' race items - that you will then also have a huge profit off of? Does this culminate in some huge robin-hood event?

The whole thing stinks.

You're right about the start up costs of hosting the game. Lets say 1 hour tops to host the game that no one else is offering. The idea itself is a rough draft which is why I'm asking for opinions to make this happen. Dropping the minimum to 20 or 25 players with payouts to 2nd and 3rd when the pot size hits a certain amount?

Items and plat mean nothing more to me and being able to do more giveaways and buy more items to giveaway or to host games. Which I believe you think I want to horde it all and buy items for alts.. Not saying I blame you at all and I would think the same. So you will have to take my customers who and my word that I'm good on my word.

Also as far as reputation being in question, all I can say is Tookie's and Xharti have both been around on the same account since 2009. (Casino was opened in 2010 or 2011). So I'm not a new player who just remade a character this week. I haven't been on in a year and starting running my casino again.

[zforrestal]

You have an interesting approach. You're basically inventing your own profit center here based on this "giveaway" contest.

Nobody would argue that you aren't entitled to some compensation for your time, but using the words "profit" and "giveaway" in describing your concept is just going to turn people off. Arguing that it subsidizes your other giveaways doesn't do much either - it's like Ocean Spray hiking the price of grapefruit juice to subsidize their orange juice production. People who buy grapefruit juice feel slighted, and would just as rather go buy orange (i.e. sit in EC and try to hit one of your no-buy giveaways versus paying for a fungi contest).

To sell this idea, you really have to make people feel like their 5k is being used to maximize their chance at a win and not half-buying a chance at winning, and half-buying into your bank account. I don't think you're doing this yet.


I'm just trying not to hide anything. Yes there is a profit what does that profit get used for? Buying another fungi and doing it again save up do it with a cloak of flames etc. I buy other items to just giveaway for free. I can raise my stakes on my games for people who like to bet big. So when I say profit it goes into those things, and not into my pocket so I can buy stuff for alts. I have what I need.

I don't know how else to ensure that people are getting their 5k's worth at a shot for a fungi.. Which is what this thread is supposed to be about, ideas to help ensure people get their moneys worth, that it's 100% fair to all players and that everyone has fun. (50k profit isn't a total I'm set on was just a rough idea)

[Spitty]

Well, this is why companies rarely post numbers on their actual profit margins. You can have a 50% profit margin and be reinvesting in new product, making huge charitable contributions, providing employee benefits and funding community programs, etc...to the point that your company posts 5-10% actual net profit at the end of the year.

All anyone is going to talk about, though, is how you mark your product up by 50% on the sales rack.

Case in point, you're giving away a roughly 100k item for what amounts to 5k raffle tickets. Most of this thread is still going to center on how you're pocketing 50k at the end of the day based on the minimum participant number you've put up. This is regardless of your future plans or personal ideals - you have to realize people care very little about that, and care a lot about their 5k and their potential fungi.

I'd start by cutting that profit in half, or adding a 25k item for second place. Your current setup is going to result in one happy fungi owner, and 29 unhappy second-place finishers that are going to assume their 5k was part of the 50 you pocketed.

[Sarius]

A race is inherently not fair. People will figure out ways to get the advantage. if you want a fair shot at a fungi, totally fair, then collect the money and /ran the number of players. This is fair, easy, and clear that there will not be "an inside horse".

Get some more money and Tookie btw, I wanna roll big later =)

[zforrestal]

Well, this is why companies rarely post numbers on their actual profit margins. You can have a 50% profit margin and be reinvesting in new product, making huge charitable contributions, providing employee benefits and funding community programs, etc...to the point that your company posts 5-10% actual net profit at the end of the year.

All anyone is going to talk about, though, is how you mark your product up by 50% on the sales rack.

Case in point, you're giving away a roughly 100k item for what amounts to 5k raffle tickets. Most of this thread is still going to center on how you're pocketing 50k at the end of the day based on the minimum participant number you've put up. This is regardless of your future plans or personal ideals - you have to realize people care very little about that, and care a lot about their 5k and their potential fungi.

I'd start by cutting that profit in half, or adding a 25k item for second place. Your current setup is going to result in one happy fungi owner, and 29 unhappy second-place finishers that are going to assume their 5k was part of the 50 you pocketed.

Comments like this are what I'm looking for. Yes 50k is a big markup. I put 5k 30 players min, just to get the idea across, but that being said, there needs to be a minimum amount of players that exceeds the amount of the item, for all the reasons I've pointed out before.

Minimum amount of people needed for the game at 5k would be 20 (without prizes for 2nd and 3rd and profit) After 20 people have signed up when the prize pool exceeds certain amounts prizes will be paid out to 2nd and 3rd or more depending on the prize pool.

Other idea is have a minimum and maximum amount of players and prize support will be a set rate for 2nd and 3rd.


A race is inherently not fair. People will figure out ways to get the advantage. if you want a fair shot at a fungi, totally fair, then collect the money and /ran the number of players. This is fair, easy, and clear that there will not be "an inside horse".

Get some more money and Tookie btw, I wanna roll big later =)
People gaining advantages: I say everything is fair game but only people who have paid and made a lvl 1 can claim the reward. So if they want to buddy up with a druid or bard to track and run fast go for it.. with that being said you know that you're playing with the understanding anything goes. (No exploits 2 boxing or anything that breaks P99 rules). I see that being the most fair way.. everyone who paid starts in the same area. At the start of the race the Zone the Target will be called out. From then on out do whatever it takes to be the first to find the Target. If you have a better idea please comment.

[zforrestal]

This just became a team event.

Try beating a level 60 druid and a level 60 bard backlining a level one warrior, especially if the target's zone is being called out at the start.

Well, it's the only way to make it so everyone is on even terms at the start. I imagined it more lvl 1's scurrying trying to find ports etc.. but obviously thats not going to happen. People are going to have ports lined up and a tracker ready. So why not make it any rules necessary to win.. but only the lvl 1 can claim prize. If you wanna split the prize with anyone who helped that's on you. Unless you have a better idea...

Also I plan to be a moving target within the zone announced.

[Sarius]

Fair would be a bunch of lvl 1 humans fighting in Freeport. If you get a buff you are DQ'd

[zforrestal]

I am not opposed to that idea.. what would entry fee be? Everyone the same race/class or all different. Expand

[Sarius]

Same race, same class. The only problem would be pre-arranging to team up with one another. I really think a random is the only way to be fair, but I understand you are trying to do something different

[zforrestal]

Get someone to debuff each player before each round, do a series of 1v1 until a winner.. I think this could work out.

[Clark]

The best player run events are free events, some even put their own pixels in as a prize etc.

[zforrestal]

Well, I got the Fungi I want to set up either a race or level 1 duel contest. What would you guys like?