Plane of Fear

[quido]

So what's going on with the Plane of Fear? I know it was down to get patched to be more difficult and I heard it was going to go back up within a couple of days. We just checked it out and it was up, but by the time we mobilized to break in the portal was back down. Is it getting patched again?

[Pheer]

in before IB conspiracy theories

[Aeolwind]

Server hasn't been patched, not sure how it came unlocked. I'm assuming it popped loose during the random ups and downs.

[Wonton]

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1264

[Wonton]

like.. scarelings were not proc'ing shadow step in fear. maybe aggro range isn't far enough. clip plane?>_<

probably a lot more things that i'm unaware of as well

[Dabamf]

like.. scarelings were not proc'ing shadow step in fear.Wow. That alone makes the break in like 2x easier

[quido]

Yeah it must pop open on server down because after that DDoS tonight I respawned at my bind right by it and tried to use it to port back to the middle of Feerott and it actually brought me there. Needless to say, I died in PoF.

[Allizia]

Is there any real need for PoF to be locked until it's patched? I'm not pointing fingers at IB or bringing up any kind of conspiracy, but they were there for over a week, and now that other guilds are trying to do raids it's considered to easy and locked.

I understand and agree with imps not warping, and I've seen the CT script in action, but I don't understand why we can't continue to raid it while it's worked on. Nothing has changed since IB did several runs and we are just asking for something to do, there are not many raid options in classic and it's causing more competition on the few available targets.

[Otto]

Is there any real need for PoF to be locked until it's patched? I'm not pointing fingers at IB or bringing up any kind of conspiracy, but they were there for over a week, and now that other guilds are trying to do raids it's considered to easy and locked.

I understand and agree with imps not warping, and I've seen the CT script in action, but I don't understand why we can't continue to raid it while it's worked on. Nothing has changed since IB did several runs and we are just asking for something to do, there are not many raid options in classic and it's causing more competition on the few available targets.

Agree 100%

[Icecometus]

Like can't you just make it just as hard as it was on live? There are enough peeps on the server to do the raids straight up. No one noticed this during Beta?

[Otto]

Like can't you just make it just as hard as it was on live? There are enough peeps on the server to do the raids straight up. No one noticed this during Beta?

Beta was extremely understaffed. There were probably 10-15 people on including the dev team until 2-3 weeks before the server launched. then there was like 20-30.

I know I'm guilty of being little to no help before the server launched. Posted like 3 quest bugs? Guarantee its no different for 80% of the population who plays currently.

[Enig]

Is there any real need for PoF to be locked until it's patched? I'm not pointing fingers at IB or bringing up any kind of conspiracy, but they were there for over a week, and now that other guilds are trying to do raids it's considered to easy and locked.

I understand and agree with imps not warping, and I've seen the CT script in action, but I don't understand why we can't continue to raid it while it's worked on. Nothing has changed since IB did several runs and we are just asking for something to do, there are not many raid options in classic and it's causing more competition on the few available targets.

This is the problem with racing on a progression server... you realize that your whole guild can be in full planar armor in just a few weeks? What will you do then? Cry because Air is not open? Then cry because Kunark is not open? Where does it end? I had a guy in an Unrest group complain today because "this good for legit experience, but I'm gonna log out while I wait on my friend to come PL me". This game is 10 years old... there is no reason to be in a hurry. Enjoy the ride, roll an alt, hell maybe go help some other people... this game is only as good as it's community.

[Icecometus]

Cool but you guys in IB seem like the type of folks that know the raids very well, why not clue the Devs in on the fact the raids were not working correctly after your first run?

[Allizia]

Cool but you guys in IB seem like the type of folks that know the raids very well, why not clue the Devs in on the fact the raids were not working correctly after your first run?

This isn't finger pointing time, it was reported and is being worked on, I'm just asking for permission to go in. We have a lot of people excited about going to Plane of Fear. It seems to unlock every time the server goes down, so it doesn't even require any action.

Don't derail this into another hate post

[karsten]

i agree wtih allizia!

[Icecometus]

This isn't finger pointing time, it was reported and is being worked on, I'm just asking for permission to go in. We have a lot of people excited about going to Plane of Fear.

Don't derail this into another hate post

I am not a hater :) just curious... seen a similar situation on the last progression server I played on and its just interesting that the same missteps have been made with respect to the end game content. On that server 12 or so level 46s killed naggy and cleared hate and most of fear in on night... this is obviously not in the same ball park.

[Dartagnan]

Cool but you guys in IB seem like the type of folks that know the raids very well, why not clue the Devs in on the fact the raids were not working correctly after your first run?

Um, a lot has been fixed already since we have been in there. Seriously, I swear many of you guys just sit there writing up conspiracy theories about us.

Read the patch notes and you'll find fixes since IB has been going there.

[Icecometus]

Well let me be the first to thank you if no one else has :D

[Reiker]

Scarelings not shadow stepping was reported the very first night we were in there...

[Icecometus]

Scarelings not shadow stepping was reported the very first night we were in there...

Cool, I understand being a little sensitive after all the attacks against you guys, I was just wondering what was up thanks for clearing that up for me. I just started last week so I need to catch up.

[Allizia]

Scarelings not shadow stepping was reported the very first night we were in there...

^ True story from reliable sources, this isn't a hate post

[Jereziah]

You're right, it's a fear post. Hate posts are ---> way.

[Reiker]

Jokes

[Wonton]

Cool but you guys in IB seem like the type of folks that know the raids very well, why not clue the Devs in on the fact the raids were not working correctly after your first run?

Xzerion is with us majority of the raids, heh. Poor guy got / gets spammed so much

[Goobles]

Let's all just settle down, and have some pie.

[Bubbles]

I am not a hater :) just curious... seen a similar situation on the last progression server I played on and its just interesting that the same missteps have been made with respect to the end game content. On that server 12 or so level 46s killed naggy and cleared hate and most of fear in on night... this is obviously not in the same ball park.

Lets just say that the next dragon/god/planar encounter that closely resembles what is was actually like in 1999 will be the first.

And that's not the devs fault, it's just incredibly hard to recreate experiences perfectly and accurately when there was so few who were actually there in 99 to experience it.

There are so many variables that go into each encounter.. Mob stats, aggro list, pathing, line of sight, pets vs, charm, melee mitigation, mob AC, mob scripts, mob placement, spell effectiveness, Resists, etc..

That's not even scratching the tip of the iceberg.

These encounters are *insanely* hard to recreate accurately. I've seen Nag die, it wasn't even remotely on par to what it took to kill him 10 years ago. But someday it will be. It's also really rough from the players standpoint to feedback certain things and back up your statements.

I mean, the first 3 weeks i was in sky on live the goddamn zone wasnt even itemized at all beyond broken quest pieces. How can i prove that? The first time we zoned into Fear on live the mobs hit for 40 dmg and we laughed ourselves silly and farmed armor for a week before Verant tuned it up. How can I prove that? Charming mobs vs. dragons was bad idea jeans since the charm icon would default as the top buff slot and the second the dragon dispelled, your charmed pet became an angry NPC add that would pick off clerics and casters one by one. How can I prove that?

The thing is, you really can't.. Wayback Machine only will lead you to common knowledge stuff that isn't necessarily "accurate", either. After all, the EQ version of "facts" is things.. randomly posted on the internet.

Best proof I have for Enchanters is simply you didnt see any charm kiting in Skyfire, because of the friggin chromodracs ;). But I can't prove that either. What we all know and are afraid to say is in Classic enchanters hasted 20 ppl, claritied 20 ppl, tashed a raid mob and then... sat down and read a magazine. Anyone grouping with enchanters doesnt want them whacked with the nerf bat all the way to their actual classic status, and lord knows the actual enchanters want nothing to do with their classic place in the EQ world either. Then you have to make a gut decision if you are in power and decide just how classic you want it all to be. Im pretty sure that the first big brew-ha-ha about "zomg melee sucks this isnt classic!" was a good example of how fun it is to balance things out in the face of ppl delusional to what classic-EQ actually entailed in the first place. I'm not sure the devs/GMs are ready to tackle 20 new issues like that and still err on the side of the player base.

So get off the dev's backs on this. Anyone who thinks what we are experiencing now is anything other than Beta version 2 is delusional. It's pretty amazing how far we've come from our handful of testers pre-launch to where we are 2 months down the line. It's not 100% classic, but pre-50 you sure can fool people. And that's pretty awesome in and of itself :).

[Aeolwind]

Patch is pretty much done, just needs to go to live so I'll spill a bit of bean. Btw, thanks for keeping this thread on the up and up.

Cryosilk Robe - Originally planned to be 1 on the server and cease dropping & russet removed at that time as well. This wasn't just me, this was a consensus on the dev team. Since there's already 2 I'm leaving it open for a 3rd. After that you can wave good bye to them and Russet.

Roamers - Aggro range doesn't work quite the same in fear as it used to. As such we were caught in a dilemma. We found a couple "holes" that weren't there on live & one "hole" that is supposed to be there was far easier to get to than intended. Both cases should be altered now slightly.

Scarelings - We finally (thank god) figured out why they were porting themselves and not their targets. There is a field that does not show up in the spell editor (some of you may be familiar with the editor) and can only be found directly through the DB (spells_new). This is also what plagues damage shields as well as a few other spells.

Golems/CT - About this all I can say is this: Fixing this script with 1 person is hell. Report any buggy activity and I'll see what I can do. But, if you whole raid gets DT'd at once, please take a screenshot so I can laugh. As part of security measures, there is limited external quest control, IE I can't make changes on the fly at the moment. So, if it's buggy, it will remain so till the next patch. One last thing to keep in mind. The golems are supposed to work a certain way. And we tried for weeks on end to mimic that behavior & succeeded in beta. That behavior, somehow, has changed the way it works on live & test now. So, be aware I have no freaking clue why that is. So, be wary.

[guineapig]

The code is alive!!!:eek:

[Aeolwind]

The code is alive!!!:eek:

In the EQ Alpha, one of the devs was talking about the Allizewsaur. He stated that as a ship passed it took off in the direction of the ship for no reason and slaughtered everyone that was testing boats. Then roamed back to his island & resumed pathing.

[guineapig]

Ghost in teh Machine... we haz it!!! :p

[Halladar]

Im pretty sure that the first big brew-ha-ha about "zomg melee sucks this isnt classic!" was a good example of how fun it is to balance things out in the face of ppl delusional to what classic-EQ actually entailed in the first place.


Why do you think they are delusional about it? You think all these posts are made just why exactly?

I have a question for you bubbles. Why did verant put in hell levels in the first place? Why is it that as you level, you become increasingly less powerful than a mob of equal level to yourself?

So, from the sound of your post you go back a long way. Plane of fear opening and all that.

But do you ever think about the big picture and why things worked the way they did?

[Caelor]

My impression was that hell levels were a mistake that was left in; like the halfing exp bonus. True or false?

[Elerion]

I seem to remember hell levels were simply a byproduct of the xp scaling curve they used and not an intended effect. Some dev letter from around the time they smoothed the curve out might have the details.

[Aeolwind]

My impression was that hell levels were a mistake that was left in; like the halfing exp bonus. True or false?

False. Hell levels were a math calculation flaw that wasn't "fixable" till After POP. There was a drastic coding change around that time and they were able to go back into the XP modules without hosing every character in the DB.

[Halladar]

We probably have someone here who played in beta. Beta is kind of artificial, but did they have hell levels then?

My personal thinking is that Verant was totally freaked out by how many players they had, how fast they were leveling, and how little content they had for them when they got past about level 30 or so.

So they put in hell levels to slow everyone up.

Kind of like "they built all these crackerbox houses, and Jesus people bought 'em."

Then someone like Abashi can come along and say it is all "working as intended." When the reality is they never really knew what was intended.

[Aeolwind]

We probably have someone here who played in beta. Beta is kind of artificial, but did they have hell levels then?

My personal thinking is that Verant was totally freaked out by how many players they had, how fast they were leveling, and how little content they had for them when they got past about level 30 or so.

So they put in hell levels to slow everyone up.

Kind of like "they built all these crackerbox houses, and Jesus people bought 'em."

Then someone like Abashi can come along and say it is all "working as intended." When the reality is they never really knew what was intended.

Yeah, there were very few 50's in the beta though. Hell levels were literally a coding flaw though. There was something like a "if @level / 5 then @xp x2" Ugly, but it shows why I should never touch the source....

[Halladar]

False. Hell levels were a math calculation flaw that wasn't "fixable" till After POP. There was a drastic coding change around that time and they were able to go back into the XP modules without hosing every character in the DB.

Okay Aeolwind. Were hell levels in eq on day one? That is an awful hard one to prove or disprove. I know 1 or 2 of the first level 50's were some rogues that leveled with an enchanter using the old whirl till you hurl bug. That only took like a month or something.

Here is a theory: about two weeks after launch someone goes to Smedley and gives him a projection about what percentage of the server will be level 30, 40, 50 in 3 months, 6 months that sort of thing.

Then about a week later without being announced, a code change was put in on the server.

And hell levels now existed.

I could be wrong. But disprove me.

[Halladar]

Look, please don't get the idea I am angry. It is hard to explain my position on this. I hope you don't take any of my posts to mean I have any personal animosity to you or any of the devs here.

I have a lot of theories about EQ, the way it started, and why things turned out the way they did.

I could well be wrong, a lot of what I think would be unverifiable unless one of the original dev team for live showed up and started talking.

I like to analyze and think about things like this. If anyone knows anything about this sort of thing, I am happy to be proved wrong.

Just to say one thing though, eq was a great game. I still can't believe that bunch at Verant produced it back in the day though. And a lot of things that were, didn't really need to be that way, that is an opinion though.

[Aeolwind]

I could be wrong. But disprove me.

I wasn't in the beta so I can neither prove nor disprove if they were in the live beta. All I can say is this, it was almost 6 months for the first SK to hit 50 on emarr.

[yaaaflow]

My understanding of hell levels (and this is just I believe what was posted when they were taken out) is as follows: The developers intended to have the amount of xp to level increase at 30->35 by X amount, spread out among the levels. Then from 35-40 it would increase by Y amount, spread out among the levels. And so on, for 40-45 and 45-50. Except a bug in the code had that full xp amount applied to just the 1st level in each of the ranges, so level 30 would take the regular xp amount + X, and the rest of the levels would proceed normally. And so forth.

At the very least that is approximately what Verant posted about it when they ended up removing hell levels.

My question along these lines is why is it on this server that hell levels are 29/34/etc rather than 30/35/etc?

[Icecometus]

Just want to say I think this thread is awesome :cool:

[Widan]

My question along these lines is why is it on this server that hell levels are 29/34/etc rather than 30/35/etc?

I thought hell levels were 34,39 etc on classic too? Maybe the code added it to the last level in the range (34 in 30-34, 39 in 35-39 etc) instead of the first level.

[Bubbles]

Why do you think they are delusional about it? You think all these posts are made just why exactly?

I have a question for you bubbles. Why did verant put in hell levels in the first place? Why is it that as you level, you become increasingly less powerful than a mob of equal level to yourself?

So, from the sound of your post you go back a long way. Plane of fear opening and all that.

But do you ever think about the big picture and why things worked the way they did?

The best way to explain it is this:

Our server population here on 1999 is umm... whats the best way to put this..

about 30% nostalgiac, selfless, congenial people basking in the thrillride of Norrath v2.0. The other 70% of the server is made up of your typical EMU dregs: griefers, sociopaths, and ppl who got lost on the way to EZ server or TZ/VZ. This is where the majority of the animosity that leaks onto these boards, into /ooc, and wherever the heck else comes from.

Either way, the majority of the population didn't sniff EQ until (and I say this erring on the side of caution) Kunark-era and beyond.

Example A: people actually logged in on day one and created rogues. In Classic there were no poisons (and I'm not talking 2-400DD poisons, I mean *any* poisons in game), sneak/hide/evade didn't work properly (especially the evade aspect), none of the roguely skills worked properly, if at all (sense traps, lockpicking, etc.. Hell, you could write stories on what pickpocketting did and didn't do after every freaking patch). Warriors couldn't taunt. Paladins flash of light wasn't an uber taunt. SK's were few and far between (but their aggro-generating spells always were the most realiable form of tanking back then)... Life as a rogue was *hell*. It's too bad the Safehouse doesn't archive back that far, you could get a pretty incredible sense of how unbearable playing melee was back in the days, especially a class as broken as rogue.

Now, for the majority, who started Kunark on.. Rogues had poisons.. Evade worked! sneak/hide gave them carte blanche to meander nearly anywhere untouched, there was incredible weapons available to max out their BS damage and dps that didnt require killing dragons and gods. The ragebringer was about the most breathtaking DPS epic you could ever hope for. People with positive rogue experiences came late to the game, and started in full rubi + ebon razors, crys spears, etc..

That's just one small example in the grand scheme of things. This is how you need to look at things. Melee wasn't "a bit behind pet casters". Melee was worlds behind pet casters. Melee sucked. But everyone grouped up with warriors and rangers and monks and druids and clerics and whatever and grouped in the classic atomic-family sense anyways. Keeping mobs of healers was hell, but we got good enough at it to grind our way forward.

The game was a *struggle*. That's the "big picture". Most of EQ from Verant's viewpoint was reactionary, not following up on intended progression. The hell levels were a coding mistake. They flung content out there like Fear and Hate and Sky and VP, waited for us to beta it, watched us, adjusted it, and wrapped it up in a pretty bow for the rest of the populace. All EQ ever really was, was a ripoff of Brad McQuaids favorite online MUD, given 3d graphics and adapted on a grand scale.. Through the blood sweat and tears of an incredible team at Verant, the game evolved into something above and beyond what anyone thought possible in a online RPG. It's quite a game. There's a reason there are hundreds upon hundreds of us sitting here playing it on this server 10 years after the fact, drawn here by mere word-of-mouth.

/shrug. I guess the better analogy would be like giving someone an Apple IIc computer and then listening to them complain about how it's not running Super Mario Brothers correctly. That's a good idea of just how far off on the timeline a lot of these hilarious thread-starters are in regards to Classic-Launch April 1999 Everquest. In regards to melees, raid encounters, quests, etc. But i can't wag a finger at them too harshly, so much content on the server alread is "holy cow this barely made it in pre-kunark" stuff.. And even so, a "best of both worlds" approach to content allocation is just fine with me.

Besides, it's a ton easier to poke and prod and discover which 1% of the content is wrong than it is to painstakingly get 99% of the content right. There has been an incredible amount of time and effort put into this server just for quests and faction alone. hats off to the bosses.

[Deanob]

Good read Bubbles, TY

[Ocaevia]

Great read indeed.