Rogean be our PVP Savior...

[Aerist]

Not meant to diminish the population of the p99 server. If you enjoy pve by all means it's the perfect server. I think Rogean could make one hell of a pvp server as well, expanding the interest to another group of people. We only have one option right now, and we all know that it is dead. Be our Emu savior and give us a PVP home....

Sincerely,

Lots of inactive EQ'ers

[Malrubius]

We only have one option right now, and we all know that it is dead.

Lots of inactive EQ'ers

If you feel it is dead, why are you here?

btw, this thread belongs in R&F.

[PhelanKA]

I can imagine that running P99 takes up enough of Rogean's time and money. Why don't you invest some of your own?

[Barkingturtle]

If you feel it is dead, why are you here?

btw, this thread belongs in R&F.

He's talking about VZTZ when he says their only option is dead.

[Shrubwise]

He's talking about VZTZ when he says their only option is dead.

Yes, and he is correct. They allow 2-boxing. So usually you can take whatever their population is, cut it in half and that's how many real players are on a time.

[Malrubius]

He's talking about VZTZ when he says their only option is dead.

Ahh, I get it. So this has nothing to do with P1999 at all.

Carry on then! :p

[Straif]

Hey Roegan, I'm an anon poster that felt like stirring some shit up in server chat.

Anyways, I felt that you and other people within your circle should work harder. Fuck responsibilities, family, RL. Make me a PVP server so I can pwn newbs lulz.

This would be good considering Classic EQ is proabably one of the best games for PvP when it comes right on down to it. If you start a PVP server you won't even need to run the PVE one cause you'll have so many people playing on the new one.

Thanks for your time brah!

p.s. Feel free to delete this post and ban me

[Kimmie]

RIP the Box <3

[Kizzik]

PvP in Everquest is completely retarded and anyone who likes PvP on Everquest is completely retarded. So, I guess start up a Special Olympics server for people who like the absolutely godawful PvP system that the Verant developers shat out when they ate too much salami at the cafeteria

[Messianic]

Straif, you rock.

[PhelanKA]

PvP in Everquest is completely retarded and anyone who likes PvP on Everquest is completely retarded. So, I guess start up a Special Olympics server for people who like the absolutely godawful PvP system that the Verant developers shat out when they ate too much salami at the cafeteria

No. You.

[Tseng]

EQ was just NEVER balanced around PvP, and as such it has great inequities (wizard manaburns lolz comes to mind)

[Jaxon]

I played a Neutral on Sullon Zek when it first came out. I had a good time, but I also had:

1. A group whenever I logged in.
2. 100 buddies online to back me up.
3. A level/gear advantage over maybe 80% of our opponents.

Whenever I had these things, I usually won and EQ pvp was fun. Whenever I didn't have them, I lost and it sucked. It's not worth playing unless you're the baddest dog in the cage(or close enough to it to have a shot at winning a battle).

[HippoNipple]

People who don't like EQ PvP are just babies. I can't stand hearing people complain about things being balanced, they are what they are you should just deal with it. PvP on EQ with 1 item loot was the most fun I have ever had with PvP on a game, one exception would be The Realm but most people have never even heard of that game.

I never had a bunch of powerful friends on Rallos Zek, and I didn't have the best gear. If your class isn't the best for it then you can just roll whatever class you want, or you can take pride in being a tougher class to be and man up. You can always hang with friends if you can't 1 vs 1 pvp well, and most of the time the classes that can't 1 vs 1 well are in groups anyways for exping. Warriors have a really hard time in pvp servers, but then again raiding guilds still need them. It makes it that much more rewarding being a high level warrior on a PvP server. Just because you aren't the best PvPer doesn't mean you don't still have rewards on the server. If you have a max level tank you will be greatly needed since the majority of players are pure casters. Rangers get crapped on here but if you are a ranger with good MR gear on a PvP server people won't talk as much crap.

Balancing PvP is what ruins PvP in games, it turns into a fps then. The people who can't handle the concept of unbalanced PvP are the same people that piss everyone off on this server. They are greedy and want to be the best at everything. The people who currently camp all of the raiding content or farm spots 24/7 can't handle the concept of not being the best at everything, PvE and PvP. They master the PvE content and can't cope with the fact that players in PvP can figure out a way to be better than them sometimes. Thats when people cry and say they need balancing because their planar gear should beat everyone.

To all the complainers that crap on EQ PvP stop bitching and dogging on the people who enjoy pvp. You don't have to worry anyways, the p1999 team isn't going to abandon this server. Every time someone brings up PvP people on here get defensive about this server and try to say how stupid PvP is. Some people like myself just have memories of classic that aren't represented here. This is the first blue server I have ever played on so Project 1999 isn't really classic to me, but its still a lot of fun. I'm still grateful to have the server and its better than I expected, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have a rallos zek classic server run as well as this server is.

[Jaxon]

Once your hardcore raiding guild figures out that resist gear is better for pvp, it's all over. An uberguild from another server decided to play on SZ, and we failed hard trying to beat them. In the beginning, they outleveled us by a fair margin, which was just about an automatic win due to resists and better spells. But then they started to raid dragons and gear up. Despite all of our res-box trains, despite camping their geared corpses for 3 days in Skyshrine in an attempt to rot them, and despite our bind-point camping and deleveling one of their bards, they eventually got into ToV and farmed all its insane +hp +resist gear. There was no way to recover from that. Our only hope of beating them was that they would get bored and quit, which they did.

[ukaking]

I had little problems as an Ikky Warrior carving out my own little rep for not taking shit from anyone on Rallos Zek. This is the first blue server I've really been on too and its great, but my fondest memories are mostly PvP related.

[PhelanKA]

People who don't like EQ PvP are just babies.

Or warriors ;)

I'm from Rallos Zek as well and I just have to say that EQ PVP was horribly balanced. That's probably an understatement. It was probably the WORST balanced PVP. What made Rallos Zek so much fun though were the people. This was before the days of "lulz" and "epeens" and all the fucking nonsense that makes online communities so petulant and repugnant anymore. A majority of the playerbase on RZ were mature and intelligent adults. The people that wanted to grief either didn't last long or they joined Darkenbane. Either way griefers were not much of a threat beyond level 20.

It was a lot of fun as Hippo obviously remembers as well. I certainly don't expect anyone who wasn't on RZ to "get it" so I'll just end my rant there.

[Tseng]

I'm not saying EQ pvp wasn't/can't be fun. I definitely think it can. I am looking forward to and will be participating in the pvp event that will be going on. I just pointed out the obvious - this game was never balanced around pvp.

[wvdmc]

We didn't have all this whining about camp stealing and raid rotations on RZ.

[Maurk]

how much would it cost to get a pvp server going?
i'd personally donate to get a pvp classic server.
plus it would give some of us late joiners a chance to play from scratch too

[JaVeDK]

As much as I'd like to have the PvP fans (myself partially incl.) get a chance to relive their classic EQ experience, I have reservations about the idea of creating a 2nd P1999 server at present. The reason being simply that I fear it would split the current population, making the game virtually lifeless at off-peak hours. We've just recently reached a point where getting a good PUgroup at those times isn't completely impossible, and I'd hate to have to go back to soloing 90% of the time.

I've previously advocated a 2nd server (be it PvP or otherwise) at a time when the population can "handle it" (my estimate is +2k at peak hours), and I stand by that.

[HippoNipple]

As much as I'd like to have the PvP fans (myself partially incl.) get a chance to relive their classic EQ experience, I have reservations about the idea of creating a 2nd P1999 server at present. The reason being simply that I fear it would split the current population, making the game virtually lifeless at off-peak hours. We've just recently reached a point where getting a good PUgroup at those times isn't completely impossible, and I'd hate to have to go back to soloing 90% of the time.

I've previously advocated a 2nd server (be it PvP or otherwise) at a time when the population can "handle it" (my estimate is +2k at peak hours), and I stand by that.


I think a 2nd server could be good for the population once it hits 1k+, until Kunark comes out anyways. Last night there were 800+ and everything was over packed. South Karana had 30 people in it. Aviaks was crowded, hermit camped, never checked centaurs because at a camp check several people said centaurs were camped, and the spires were completely camped. I had to kill wondering mobs lol, I didn't even do that on live.

As for when Kunark comes out, I totally agree with a 2nd server being bad news though. As much as it sucks being overcrowded, being under populated is the worst. I really miss PvP but wouldn't want to risk ruining what we already have here for a shot at a good PvP server.

[Braelyn]

I now come to this board just to check and see if there is any news a of pvp server. I also make sure and click on an ad every time I visit ;) I would donate $ for a pvp server.

I agree it's a major concern that a second server would dilute the population of both servers, but I wonder how many people like me are out there that don't play atm but would play if a pvp server were created?

[nicemace]

if pvp is so awesome why is the pvp server dead.

[PhelanKA]

if pvp is so awesome why is the pvp server dead.

A lack of professionalism, customer service, and boxing.

[Braelyn]

if pvp is so awesome why is the pvp server dead.

Why would you care?

Anyway, PhelanKA summed it up. That server seems to be the opposite of how project1999 is run.

[Buhbuh]

I now come to this board just to check and see if there is any news a of pvp server. I also make sure and click on an ad every time I visit ;) I would donate $ for a pvp server.

I agree it's a major concern that a second server would dilute the population of both servers, but I wonder how many people like me are out there that don't play atm but would play if a pvp server were created?

A lot of people. Probably 200ish non boxed players who aren't playing right now would be back (those who played TZVZ), given that it was classic. Those who are on TZVZ as well. Probably even the developers there, haha.

[Braelyn]

A lot of people. Probably 200ish non boxed players who aren't playing right now would be back (those who played TZVZ), given that it was classic. Those who are on TZVZ as well. Probably even the developers there, haha.

Lol, yep, I would bet those guys would come over. It must be a strange dynamic to have only only around 30 people on that server at a time. Maybe they would join together to form a powerhouse guild on a new server.

I can vouch for myself and my friend, both former TZ guys, as people who would come back to play on a pvp server. When I was playing on the project1999 server, I actually met a lot of former RZ and TZ/VZ players. I think these guys are some of the most dedicated eq players out there.

[Buhbuh]

I know of about 30 who would, personally.

Realistically though, it would take a lot of donations to simply buy another server setup like this and then lots of donations to sustain it with the electric bill probably being so high even with one server. I know the PvP crowds would be willing to comply but it's really up to Rogean. I personally think it would be a great idea a while after the release of Kunark. The time it takes to develop the expansions back to what they were has got to be tremendous and a PvP server can't have the dev's worried. I think once Kunark is generally ironed out though, an old world PvP server could just be opened and sort of left alone by dev's here while they finalize the Kunark bits and begin on Velious. By the time the PvP server was even ready to do Kunark, Velious would be nearly done for the PvE server. It took forever to drop mobs on a PvP server with all the contention =p.

Fun times though!

Edito: the argument of it being imbalanced (omgz manaburn) is precisely why a classic PvP server is requested. Classic meaning: No AA's, no safe zones. I was always with less gear on TZ for 5 years and I quite enjoyed being the underdog. It was frustrating at times but incredibly fun.

[Kastro]

I know of about 30 who would, personally.

Realistically though, it would take a lot of donations to simply buy another server setup like this and then lots of donations to sustain it with the electric bill probably being so high even with one server. I know the PvP crowds would be willing to comply but it's really up to Rogean. I personally think it would be a great idea a while after the release of Kunark. The time it takes to develop the expansions back to what they were has got to be tremendous and a PvP server can't have the dev's worried. I think once Kunark is generally ironed out though, an old world PvP server could just be opened and sort of left alone by dev's here while they finalize the Kunark bits and begin on Velious. By the time the PvP server was even ready to do Kunark, Velious would be nearly done for the PvE server. It took forever to drop mobs on a PvP server with all the contention =p.

Fun times though!

Edito: the argument of it being imbalanced (omgz manaburn) is precisely why a classic PvP server is requested. Classic meaning: No AA's, no safe zones. I was always with less gear on TZ for 5 years and I quite enjoyed being the underdog. It was frustrating at times but incredibly fun.



I have to Agree with Buhbuh here.. a stable server that wasnt wiped all the time would interest many players.... even with slow EXP.

Dual boxing... boxing was very important on VZVTZ due to low pop and it being PVP.. dual boxing just means less wasted time.. not saying one boxing wouldnt be the right answer on a PVE server ect.. but on VZTZ it made the game alot of fun...

Anyways... a Rallos Zek server would be a huge draw.. or even a hardcoded Teams server would work as well...

As for PVP.. PVP is part of the immersion... I am not talking quake.. But if someone has your camp or steals your mob.. is rude.. or is wearing the FBSS you truley deserve... Being able to engage and kill or be killed by that player increases the immersion 10x it makes your interactions... friendships with players much more meaningful.. With PVP you know quickly who you can or cannot trust... Especially item loot. you get to know who is worthy of your trust.. Sometime you get burned.. but that is life... As long as there was no serverwide chat.. Hacking was policed.. and there was consitent application of a ruleset.. there would be great things... and this way if a GM on a server wanted to play... they can just play on the other server and police the other....


And really.. how do you guys feel about waiting at a named spawn for 12+ hours to wait for the dragon or whatever to pop so your guild has the numbers? wouldnt it be funner to PVP during that time? maybe win/ lose a few items in the process? and The end result is the guild/team that is the most skilled, tactically sound, persistent get the mob.. as opposed to it being one dimensional and only based on the guild with most numbers and no life?

[nicemace]

A lack of professionalism, customer service, and boxing.

i dont see any reasons stopping you from your precious pvp.

thing is, pvp server run by nilbog/rogean/whatever would end up just like the TZVZ server because you all like to say that you want a straight pvp server. but none of you actually go and form a pvp community.

what you want is the population of this server, where everyone is flagged pvp... its just not gonna happen.

[Kastro]

i dont see any reasons stopping you from your precious pvp.

thing is, pvp server run by nilbog/rogean/whatever would end up just like the TZVZ server because you all like to say that you want a straight pvp server. but none of you actually go and form a pvp community.

what you want is the population of this server, where everyone is flagged pvp... its just not gonna happen.

Problem with VZTZ is there arent enough sheep.. and the wolves have done nothing to allow the sheep population to grow.....

The Beauty of Rallos Zek ( this is looking back) was the roles were reveresed... The PVPers were hunted... which was great... made it fun.. and if you truley wanted to PK you paid the social consequences of E-Murder... I Did it and had an absolute blast.... The thing I missed was the raiding game... and in all honesty I would trade the Ganking ect for Guild VS Guild PVP over raid mobs ... and Guild VS guild ganking... any day of the week... Guild VS Guild PVP is just unbelievably awesome... Killing some naked druid is fun... Catching someone in West Commons and Looting a Pre-nerf COs is Really fun... but fighting another guild for Naggy... CT .. Plane of Air ... ect .. and getting loot is even better...

[PhelanKA]

i dont see any reasons stopping you from your precious pvp.

thing is, pvp server run by nilbog/rogean/whatever would end up just like the TZVZ server because you all like to say that you want a straight pvp server. but none of you actually go and form a pvp community.

what you want is the population of this server, where everyone is flagged pvp... its just not gonna happen.

What the fuck are you talking about? Don't presume to know me or anyone else. You just end up making yourself look like a giant ass. If you had bothered to read the first page of this thread you would know that I understand the possibility of a professionally run PVP server to be a pipedream. Next time try thinking before you start typing such stupid, banal bullshit.

That being said: For all my fellow RZers, there will never be another Rallos Zek because as I said it wasn't the game that made Rallos Zek. It was the player community. It would be impossible recreate IMHO.

[Haynar]

Its not the PVP aspect, that makes a PVP server difficult to run. Its that the PVP servers often draw the worst of the worst on the servers. Everyone with a grudge to bear, axe to grind, etc., who want to just make life miserable for others (including those that run the server). Yes, there would be some good people. Unfortunately the ratios of good to bad, goes down drastically when those 50 bad people are all on the same server.

Haynar

[Humerox]

As retarded as it was, I had more fun - on live - playing Sullon Zek than any other server.

It was all about the rush, lol. Still remember the time I killed a level 40ish at level 12 in DC by drowning him. Fun times.

Bards charming the guards in OT and wiping out 50 plus players at a time.

And FANSY!

:)

P99 still rules...but if someone headed a decent PvP emu I'd play it, lol.

[Kastro]

As retarded as it was, I had more fun - on live - playing Sullon Zek than any other server.

It was all about the rush, lol. Still remember the time I killed a level 40ish at level 12 in DC by drowning him. Fun times.

Bards charming the guards in OT and wiping out 50 plus players at a time.

And FANSY!

:)

P99 still rules...but if someone headed a decent PvP emu I'd play it, lol.

Best Bet might be a SUllonesq style server... Just ensure all teams have all classes..... and just police hacking... and allow 2 boxing..

[Buhbuh]

There's always bad apples in the PvP community. That was arguably part of it no matter what. I don't know about 2 boxing. I like the idea of actually having to seek out other players to join and be a part of the old experience. I think the server would see a lot more players than TZVZ ever did simply because of the stability issue. It would actually be classic this time around, which is a huge draw for the people that came and went on that old server. I think a mirror image of this PvE server with PvP enabled and RZ style would be awesome.

The only thing that actually poses a problem is the policing of it, it would be nice to not have to. If MQ preventative measures were already taken care of then there's not much else to police though. The player base usually makes the rules, because no GM's are always online. I think it'd be cool though.

The old EQ PvP community are essentially all in touch with each other in some way. We all know each other either directly via phone numbers or by just spreading the word. TZT is still going after 10 years and all the old players are still there. There's not much marketing to the whole thing, it would just take a server and the brilliant host of developers and project managers that are here.

[Braelyn]

Its not the PVP aspect, that makes a PVP server difficult to run. Its that the PVP servers often draw the worst of the worst on the servers. Everyone with a grudge to bear, axe to grind, etc., who want to just make life miserable for others (including those that run the server). Yes, there would be some good people. Unfortunately the ratios of good to bad, goes down drastically when those 50 bad people are all on the same server.

Haynar

I'm just curious, is there any discussion at all of possibly starting a classic pvp server?

[Taluvill]

you would have to make MQ legal. You cant have it any other way, if only because its that hard to police. Sony couldnt do it.

I think it would be insanely cool, but coming back for round 2 wouldnt be as fun, as everyone would roll necro's or wizards, druids. anything that could solo and could pvp. the other idea would be to see the few friend groups of players that actually roll the SK/Cler/shaman/ect combo.

I think, in this day and age, with all the greifers around, we would be fucked.

[Braelyn]

I think following the TZ/VZ model of team pvp would help provide some stability. It's almost 1/2 pve 1/2 pvp. People can group with people on their own teams without fear, so it wouldn't necessarily be all necro's and druids. No need to allow boxing.

[hrafn]

Rogean be our PVP Savior...

rogean didnt make this server so your barking up the wrong tree.

[Rogean]

rogean didnt make this server so your barking up the wrong tree.

I logistically run and manage the server and am one of the programmers, so if anyones settin up the shit to run a concurrent server, it would be me.

[hrafn]

so is that a yay or a nay then?

[Buhbuh]

you would have to make MQ legal. You cant have it any other way, if only because its that hard to police. Sony couldnt do it.

I think it would be insanely cool, but coming back for round 2 wouldnt be as fun, as everyone would roll necro's or wizards, druids. anything that could solo and could pvp. the other idea would be to see the few friend groups of players that actually roll the SK/Cler/shaman/ect combo.

I think, in this day and age, with all the greifers around, we would be fucked.

They had some interesting blocks to certain MQ usage at the TZVZ source code. Warp detector was an interesting little thing too. At least it would log the fact that someone had tripped it. I'm not sure if they a full-blown block for the program but it would be nice.

Being able to click off detrimentals/ warp were the only two major concerns. The tracking portion of it seems sort of inevitable and doesn't effect your ability to PvP. Any decent player knows to always be on guard when someone in range enters a zone. People make names for themselves and it transmits to certain reputations and precautions are generally taken because of them.

I think it would be a grand idea.

[Otto]

GM-Secrets created something to prevent you from logging in if MQ2 was running.

Said something about the staff not willing to do it here because of the legality of it or something though. I don't know the full scoop.

[Rogean]

GM-Secrets created something to prevent you from logging in if MQ2 was running.

Said something about the staff not willing to do it here because of the legality of it or something though. I don't know the full scoop.

I'm aware of what you are referring to, and Secrets didn't create it. Its also due to the fact that she went against my advice and implemented it in several other servers that it is no longer effective due to players simply logging in with a debugger and fixing it. It would have been very effective as a bomb, exactly how SoD used it. Now it's useless.

[Kastro]

So really.. What ruleset would most players prefer? Myself I prefer Rallos... But sullon with all teams having all classes would be prety cool as well...

[Overcast]

So really.. What ruleset would most players prefer? Myself I prefer Rallos... But sullon with all teams having all classes would be prety cool as well...

Well, I'm not a huge fan of item loot personally - coin loot was my preference. I just didn't have the time to go after replacement items nor did I really want to just run and start bagging gear.

Because half the people you kill, will have bagged all the good stuff anyway.

Coin loot - well, not much you can do with the coins.

Team PVP - had it's ups and downs on Vallon Zek - one of the reasons I left Vallon and went to Cazic-Thule was because... well, to raid, they started playing it like a blue server - it was no longer team vs. team, it was teams of Dark and Light banded together to smack people down they just didn't care for - basically anyone not in certain guilds.

It turned to a guild vs. guild kinda thing - which was ok, but the dynamic of not being able to attack people on your own team in this situation would get downright annoying, with some Dark Elf cleric healing the heck out of the Gnome you were trying to take down - that just wasn't cool...

[PhelanKA]

If you're gonna do anything, do it right. Rallos Zek ruleset is the only way to go. It in and of itself was based upon the grandaddy of all graphical MMOs: Meridian 59. Almost everyone from the Rallos Zek beta test was a Meridian 59 veteran.

[Buhbuh]

Not being able to kill darkies on my own team was always a thing that would haunt me on TZ. Rallos/ 8 lvl range would be a cool deal. When everyone started X-teaming, I'd have to rely on friends to drop the darkies as I sat there watching a lot of the time after either killing the lighty teams, or chasing them off.

Any rule set has its benefits/ downfalls. For purely PvP purposes, I'd go with a rallos/ 8 lvl range though if it were to happen. Item loot/ no doesn't matter so much. I only made hotkeys to bag the important shit usually. The whole system becomes obsolete in one way or another once Velious becomes active and people start getting a lot of quested/ high end no drop gear.

[PhelanKA]

Not being able to kill darkies on my own team was always a thing that would haunt me on TZ. Rallos/ 8 lvl range would be a cool deal. When everyone started X-teaming, I'd have to rely on friends to drop the darkies as I sat there watching a lot of the time after either killing the lighty teams, or chasing them off.

Any rule set has its benefits/ downfalls. For purely PvP purposes, I'd go with a rallos/ 8 lvl range though if it were to happen. Item loot/ no doesn't matter so much. I only made hotkeys to bag the important shit usually. The whole system becomes obsolete in one way or another once Velious becomes active and people start getting a lot of quested/ high end no drop gear.

By 8 level range you mean the original +/- 4, right?

[Kastro]

Well, I'm not a huge fan of item loot personally - coin loot was my preference. I just didn't have the time to go after replacement items nor did I really want to just run and start bagging gear.

Because half the people you kill, will have bagged all the good stuff anyway.

Coin loot - well, not much you can do with the coins.

Team PVP - had it's ups and downs on Vallon Zek - one of the reasons I left Vallon and went to Cazic-Thule was because... well, to raid, they started playing it like a blue server - it was no longer team vs. team, it was teams of Dark and Light banded together to smack people down they just didn't care for - basically anyone not in certain guilds.

It turned to a guild vs. guild kinda thing - which was ok, but the dynamic of not being able to attack people on your own team in this situation would get downright annoying, with some Dark Elf cleric healing the heck out of the Gnome you were trying to take down - that just wasn't cool...

Yeah I agree with the Team thing.. Its why I left Tallon Zek.. Hardcoded teams.. Maybe Have Hardcoded Teams.. But if you are in a guild that X teams.. you get coded red and can group/heal with anyone that is red...

[ukaking]

Gotta go with the Rallos Zek ruleset, no doubt!

[Kastro]

By 8 level range you mean the original +/- 4, right?

the 4 level range is too exploitable... it really should be 8 to 10.... to avoid most oor healing games... and in raid/highly contested zones there should be no level range... for example.. any Plane, SolB, Guk Bottom, permafrost..ect ect.. Keeps the gayness level down.

And with players being able to start on a hardcoded team.. btu being able to switch to red and their guild being their team... that would minimize most of the exploitable issues.

[jeffd]

unfortunately, even if the P99 people made a PVP server (assuming they had the money/time/will to do so) it would never come close to being what the old PVP servers were like, for two simple reasons: the server would be all wolves and no sheep, and everyone would use the MQ autobagger.

imo all the reds on P99 should just talk to a PoD and go permared. looks like there's enough of us that it'd be quality.

[azeth]

unfortunately, even if the P99 people made a PVP server (assuming they had the money/time/will to do so) it would never come close to being what the old PVP servers were like...

I have a feeling we'd see the very first all-necromancer server.



...could 50 lvl 50 necros down a raid target?..

[Kastro]

I have a feeling we'd see the very first all-necromancer server.



...could 50 lvl 50 necros down a raid target?..

Thats one of the biggest misconceptions about PVP... Necros do well// no doubt.. a Well played and geared necro is just sick.. But a Balanced group / Guild does best...

You need Tanks/ Mellee DPS/ Heals/ Run Speed buff/ crowd control/ Ports/ Spell burst DPS / and Snare to have an overall winning team/Guild.

And of course a Main Assist calling targets... on the other server in <Heresy> we had solid boxed healers.. a few main healers... a few Spell DPs... but mostly a Melee/Hybrid assist train... and for the most part we ran the server...

Well run Assist Train>anything else


and Ive seen the same thing on Rallos Zek.. and Sullon Zek.. It was the Balanced Teams/GUilds that are able to Hold territory and take down mobs... thus getting better gear and then running the server...

The vast majority of the Necros are Newbs (with a few very well played exceptions) and the druids are naked port bots ( they get more kills than the necros imo)

[Zordana]

Not meant to diminish the population of the p99 server. If you enjoy pve by all means it's the perfect server. I think Rogean could make one hell of a pvp server as well, expanding the interest to another group of people. We only have one option right now, and we all know that it is dead. Be our Emu savior and give us a PVP home....

Sincerely,

Lots of inactive EQ'ers

aswell? this is NILBOGS SERVER!

[HippoNipple]

Thats one of the biggest misconceptions about PVP... Necros do well// no doubt.. a Well played and geared necro is just sick.. But a Balanced group / Guild does best...

You need Tanks/ Mellee DPS/ Heals/ Run Speed buff/ crowd control/ Ports/ Spell burst DPS / and Snare to have an overall winning team/Guild.

And of course a Main Assist calling targets... on the other server in <Heresy> we had solid boxed healers.. a few main healers... a few Spell DPs... but mostly a Melee/Hybrid assist train... and for the most part we ran the server...

Well run Assist Train>anything else


and Ive seen the same thing on Rallos Zek.. and Sullon Zek.. It was the Balanced Teams/GUilds that are able to Hold territory and take down mobs... thus getting better gear and then running the server...

The vast majority of the Necros are Newbs (with a few very well played exceptions) and the druids are naked port bots ( they get more kills than the necros imo)


The reason it turns out this way is because the only people who can afford to make the other classes to be in well rounded guilds are the people who play 24/7 and always have access to a full group. The casual player can't go lfg by them self as a warrior for an hour or they will get ganked. The thing is the necro can be self sufficient and still fend people off solo, or get away at least.

So when you say newbs play necros, thats incorrect. These players easily have as much skill and actually still have a decent chance at taking on those better geared other classes since the necros spells are harder to resist than most classes. It's just if someone is more of a casual player a necro is the perfect class to pick. Not everyone can play 24/7, even if they did in the past and have all the know how of the hardcore players presently playing.

To say the necros on pvp servers are newbs is just dumb, they just don't always have the safety bubble of having all the numbers in a hardcore guild. The Necro is arguably the best PvP class around, why wouldn't an experienced player take advantage of that. The newbie on a pvp server is the person who plays casually and plays a warrior on a pvp server.. and runs around with a LFG tag and no guild.

[Overcast]

and runs around with a LFG tag and no guild.

"Looking for Gank"

lol

[JayDee]

VZTZ is dead

Not to mentions it is infested with hackers, dupers, exploiters, etc.

I understand you are frustrated bros (your corrupt staff like voidd who supplies friend switch epic pieces and rules on their side continuously), but theres nothing anybody can do about it.

Enjoy fond memories of 2008.

[JayDee]

This video was posted just a few hours ago on vztz forums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD8XwYgIjPU

For those of you who don't know, he is using a Macroquest function that ignores the snare function client side and he is also speed hacking.

Typical vztz

[Buhbuh]

The integrity of that server was gone a long time ago, before 2010. The presumptions made are not realistic about where the server would go.

Necro's were probably the least played on VZTZ. Actually, they were probably one of the least played on live. I do mean RZ rule set/ 8 level range. 4 +/- wasn't a big enough range. The server would be a lot different run by level headed people.

The MQ thing is an issue but could that not be addressed?

[Kastro]

The integrity of that server was gone a long time ago, before 2010. The presumptions made are not realistic about where the server would go.

Necro's were probably the least played on VZTZ. Actually, they were probably one of the least played on live. I do mean RZ rule set/ 8 level range. 4 +/- wasn't a big enough range. The server would be a lot different run by level headed people.

The MQ thing is an issue but could that not be addressed?

Biggest thing with MQ is having GMs that watch... But even then sometimes it is hard to prove...It was fairly obvious who hacked once you had been on the server awile. Some were better at playing it off than others.... the snare could be like a 300 weight item on all characters on all their accounts.. and change their surname to My Guild Tries to Hack...

The worst thing possible is for players to think it is needed to compete... that is really how most players seem to justify it.

Maybe if someone displays a pattern of things that would indicate MQ or such.. Dock 10 Levels and publicly announce it? In my opinion one mistake on VZTZ is peer pressure was not generally applied when punishing hacking.. Public announcements, docking exp or maybe a 7 day snare buff on the rest of the members of offending guild? Because really... I am sure someone would suspect something is up.. Just thinking here..

[Braelyn]

Bump, don't let the dream die!

[Buhbuh]

It's not entirely far-fetched to think it could happen. All you'd need is a poll of how many would feel inclined to donate for a new server to open/ sustain in electricity costs. I guarantee the funding could be found without great pains. The one concern would be having a crowd police it from dummies who feel it's just a playground and meant to be fucked with (MQ). It'd just be difficult to find people who aren't the developers here. There's no way they'd (Dev's) police it, it would go against everything this whole project stands for and I would think most people, including myself, would be against that idea anyway.

The best way to get that kind of thing ironed out is to have like a pool of 20 different GM's who would log on whenever they had spare time, so that generally there would always be a representative online guarding the best interest of the server. That is the difficult part.

[Abacab-insurection]

EQemu pvp is terrible and several things need to be addressed before ANY pvp server has a chance of being level.

1. Resists need tweaked 100 MR should make you near immune to stuns and roots but since the resists aren't accurate you'll need to have at least 250+ to have the same effect. Which means only the people spending hours upon hours cultivating MR gear have a shot in hell at resisting a caster.

2. Certain spells need to be tweaked such as snare, whirl til you hurl, and clinging darkness as the duration for any of these buffs even on low resist characters either lasts for .2 seconds or completely immobilizes the target permanently which is a rather OP situation depending on the antagonist.

3. Melee mitigation needs to be addressed, as pushback does not work as intended, and damage is severely nerfed. Wizard can literally stand in front of you and cast ice comet with the smallest chance of actually being interrupted and given the current resist situation in my first point you'll be perma rooted and nuked for over 1k every 6 seconds.

4. Terrain and warping issues need to be resolved as there are several points of play that allow characters to completely avoid damage outside normal circumstance. What comes to mind is intentionally spamming spells to cause packet loss (I.E chanters alliance stick, or druid's AOE) which breaks your connection GG instant pwn.

If none of these issues are fixed fully and or at least tightened up pvp on these emulated servers will only be 20% up to par with what live was back in classic period, and 20% is being generous.

[PhelanKA]

EQemu pvp is terrible and several things need to be addressed before ANY pvp server has a chance of being level.

1. Resists need tweaked 100 MR should make you near immune to stuns and roots but since the resists aren't accurate you'll need to have at least 250+ to have the same effect. Which means only the people spending hours upon hours cultivating MR gear have a shot in hell at resisting a caster.

2. Certain spells need to be tweaked such as snare, whirl til you hurl, and clinging darkness as the duration for any of these buffs even on low resist characters either lasts for .2 seconds or completely immobilizes the target permanently which is a rather OP situation depending on the antagonist.

3. Melee mitigation needs to be addressed, as pushback does not work as intended, and damage is severely nerfed. Wizard can literally stand in front of you and cast ice comet with the smallest chance of actually being interrupted and given the current resist situation in my first point you'll be perma rooted and nuked for over 1k every 6 seconds.

4. Terrain and warping issues need to be resolved as there are several points of play that allow characters to completely avoid damage outside normal circumstance. What comes to mind is intentionally spamming spells to cause packet loss (I.E chanters alliance stick, or druid's AOE) which breaks your connection GG instant pwn.

If none of these issues are fixed fully and or at least tightened up pvp on these emulated servers will only be 20% up to par with what live was back in classic period, and 20% is being generous.

It was never the poor melee characters that you had to worry about ganking, of course. It was that poor melee character's pissed off guild and alliances that made sure you never had a moment's peace ever again. THAT was the beauty of EQ PVP.

Get a clue.

[Haynar]

2. Certain spells need to be tweaked such as snare, whirl til you hurl, and clinging darkness as the duration for any of these buffs even on low resist characters either lasts for .2 seconds or completely immobilizes the target permanently which is a rather OP situation depending on the antagonist.

I found going through pvp code, that the client was trying to limit snares to be 24 seconds max. I adjusted the server code to replicate this. So snares are shorter duration in PVP now, or should be.

One of the big advantages to macroquest, is figuring out where other players are. It is easy to make it so you cant see another player coming at you. But since you can see mobs moving, disappearing, corpses spawning when they kill something. You can see exactly where someone is located.

Until something was put together to scramble mob and player locations outside a certain range, PVP would never be fair. I have some code i was working on that did this, but never finished it. It was looking very promising, with little additional cpu overhead. But I spend most of my time working on mechanics of the game, or trying to add missing features, or worst of all fixing and detecting hacks.

I want to get back to this kind of fun, to make it so that if someone did want to go PVP, it would be somewhat fair. There just need to be a lot of changes and testing.

Haynar

[Haynar]

3. Melee mitigation needs to be addressed, as pushback does not work as intended, and damage is severely nerfed. Wizard can literally stand in front of you and cast ice comet with the smallest chance of actually being interrupted and given the current resist situation in my first point you'll be perma rooted and nuked for over 1k every 6 seconds.

I finally found where the pushback is handled for clients. I have not decrypted how to set the packet yet. But I am getting close. I am not very fast at working with decompilers, but that is where I am at now. Looking through assembly language, tracing how that one part of the packet is handled.

Its only a 32 byte word. How hard could that be to figure out?

Hah. Hard. Let me tell ya. For someone like me who is not a super fast coder.

haynar

[Aerist]

sounds to me like haynar is already working on pvp fixes that vz/tz hasn't fixed in its 2+ years of existence......

I'll gladly test it on a rogean pvp server......

along with hundreds more who would too....

I'm just sayin.....

[Braelyn]

I found going through pvp code, that the client was trying to limit snares to be 24 seconds max. I adjusted the server code to replicate this. So snares are shorter duration in PVP now, or should be.

One of the big advantages to macroquest, is figuring out where other players are. It is easy to make it so you cant see another player coming at you. But since you can see mobs moving, disappearing, corpses spawning when they kill something. You can see exactly where someone is located.

Until something was put together to scramble mob and player locations outside a certain range, PVP would never be fair. I have some code i was working on that did this, but never finished it. It was looking very promising, with little additional cpu overhead. But I spend most of my time working on mechanics of the game, or trying to add missing features, or worst of all fixing and detecting hacks.

I want to get back to this kind of fun, to make it so that if someone did want to go PVP, it would be somewhat fair. There just need to be a lot of changes and testing.

Haynar


I finally found where the pushback is handled for clients. I have not decrypted how to set the packet yet. But I am getting close. I am not very fast at working with decompilers, but that is where I am at now. Looking through assembly language, tracing how that one part of the packet is handled.

Its only a 32 byte word. How hard could that be to figure out?

Hah. Hard. Let me tell ya. For someone like me who is not a super fast coder.

haynar


Haynar working on pvp? This is great news. You just made my day sir :D

[Abacab-insurection]

It was never the poor melee characters that you had to worry about ganking, of course. It was that poor melee character's pissed off guild and alliances that made sure you never had a moment's peace ever again. THAT was the beauty of EQ PVP.

Get a clue.

Nice retort faggot... Except you totally missed the point of the whole fucking post.

I'm not talking about you ganking some level 30 and his crew of guild lackeys come rolling up to grief. I'm talking about simple game mechanics that are completely out of balance from a live standpoint 10 years ago. If you don't realize there is something seriously wrong with resists and pushback then you're a fucking retard.

[HippoNipple]

Its a waste to try to make everything balanced, there is no need for it. Every class doesn't need to have an equal chance at killing every other class. Casters are better at pvp then tanks for the most part, so what. Rangers are worse in PvE for the most part, people deal with that.

Tanks with spells can actually do decent for the same reason pure casters can, (paladin with stuns, rangers/sk with snare) the only classes left out are rogues, monks and warriors. Rogues have their own niche to why they are good at pvp for obvious reasons, so you want them to put all this work into coding so that warriors/monks can be better at pvp? A warrior shouldn't be rolling around solo in pvp anyways. The only fixes that need to be made is taking out the cheating/hacking. Exploits or using the current system isn't a problem for 90% of the pvp community, just the whiners.

[Kastro]

Wars/ Monks are SICK in group PVP when you have a healer , little bit of haste and someone to snare.

[HippoNipple]

^^

Agreed, another reason why its dumb to try to make changes so every char is equal in a 1 on 1. Obviously some classes will be better at soloing. Maybe a warrior shouldn't be able to interrupt wizards so easy and have roots nerfed, especially with the weapon proc rate being as it is.

[Abacab-insurection]

^^

Agreed, another reason why its dumb to try to make changes so every char is equal in a 1 on 1. Obviously some classes will be better at soloing. Maybe a warrior shouldn't be able to interrupt wizards so easy and have roots nerfed, especially with the weapon proc rate being as it is.

None of these changes to be made are bout "balancing" it's just the coding that EQEMU uses that negates actual resist and push back scores. I take it you've actually never played pvp on live? Even more so in a classic sense.

I'm sorry bro but in classic everquest 100MR was all that was required to effectively stop most forms of CC, pushing beyond that was merely just a convenience of availability. This isn't luclin era where you have auto-firing EQ/AM3 rangers or lifecursing/manaburning necros and wizards running around one shotting with no regards to defenses or resists, in a classic sense resists and push back played a much, much larger role

If you fail to understand classic pvp, then don't come to the thread complaining that these are nerfs when in reality the current state of affair for Eqemu in regards to pvp is one giant nerf in favor of casters.

[Abacab-insurection]

A warrior shouldn't be rolling around solo in pvp anyways.

First things first, no one REALLY rolls around solo in a pvp enviroment unless they're totally noob and asking for a 15 on 1 ass raping.

Secondly, if a warrior knew how to use pumice stones, golem wands, shadow step pots, and had decent CC weapons and resists up to par, 1 v 1 against a contemporary he would still be a huge challenge given he knew how to play

You're just stereotyping a warrior as the usual "huur huur I bash u good" mentality that is involved with tanking and spanking when you're totally neglecting several clickies that any good warrior would be armed to the teeth with, and a set of resist gear that anyone melee with common sense would be swapping on.

[HippoNipple]

Its actually the opposite, I have never pvped on an emulator. My only exposure to Everquest was on Rallos Zek back during classic through Vel. I didn't know Eq Emu was different as far as resists, thought you were just throwing out changes you thought should happen. If the changes you were implying are just getting it back to where classic was then yeah, I agree with ya for sure.

[PhelanKA]

Its actually the opposite, I have never pvped on an emulator. My only exposure to Everquest was on Rallos Zek back during classic through Vel. I didn't know Eq Emu was different as far as resists, thought you were just throwing out changes you thought should happen. If the changes you were implying are just getting it back to where classic was then yeah, I agree with ya for sure.

That's the impression I was under as well. I'm all for making a PVP server as classic as possible when it comes to resists and other PVP mechanics.

[Kastro]

I agree that Snare should be somewhat inneffective over 100 or so MR, and that can be easily changed... Interupts and Pushback can be coded in as well.

[cured]

I finally found where the pushback is handled for clients. I have not decrypted how to set the packet yet. But I am getting close. I am not very fast at working with decompilers, but that is where I am at now. Looking through assembly language, tracing how that one part of the packet is handled.

Its only a 32 byte word. How hard could that be to figure out?

Hah. Hard. Let me tell ya. For someone like me who is not a super fast coder.

haynar

Keep plugging away! I played on TZ and would love a return to pre-Kunark PvP and so would a bunch of other people, I imagine. You are doing the lord's work, sir!

[Buhbuh]

None of these changes to be made are bout "balancing" it's just the coding that EQEMU uses that negates actual resist and push back scores. I take it you've actually never played pvp on live? Even more so in a classic sense.

I'm sorry bro but in classic everquest 100MR was all that was required to effectively stop most forms of CC, pushing beyond that was merely just a convenience of availability. This isn't luclin era where you have auto-firing EQ/AM3 rangers or lifecursing/manaburning necros and wizards running around one shotting with no regards to defenses or resists, in a classic sense resists and push back played a much, much larger role

If you fail to understand classic pvp, then don't come to the thread complaining that these are nerfs when in reality the current state of affair for Eqemu in regards to pvp is one giant nerf in favor of casters.

I did just fine in PvP as an under geared monk. There were classes I tried to stay away from sometimes, but the point of having it classic is to create the same jousting, 5-10 min solo battles with people that were usually in the game. The long battles were the epic part of EQ. Casters rape in old world/ somewhat in Kunark and then it sort of gets about as a even as it possibly could with Velious. Some classes are just stronger in certain aspects though. My monk could essentially never kill a decently geared SK 1v1 no matter how great the skill, not without a regen/ MR based build. It really depends on how the character is built in gear and EQ PvP took forever because it generally came down to skill.

MR being problematic forces players to actually use dispells/ debuffs. Nobody debuffed on TZVZ, the spells became futile with the resist curve. Just sayin'

[Buhbuh]

I agree that Snare should be somewhat inneffective over 100 or so MR, and that can be easily changed... Interupts and Pushback can be coded in as well.

I agree. It was that way and forced players to find other ways to beat players.

People really seem to want a change there because of imbalance or whatever. This was the exact reason why EQ PvP owned. The jousting was insanely fun, you really had to have pumice prepared to save yourself, or actually get effective spells off on other people. It was a huge system really. And every class was good. Rogues pick up momentum with double BS at 55, and discplines sort of level out some things. I remember Mythd (Enc) and a lot of other casters who were monsters to deal with.

Snares are just flat out devastating in this game in PvP. It should be resisted frequently.

[Braelyn]

Abacab is not talking about class balance in classic EQ. He's talking about fixing problems with EQemu pvp.

[Buhbuh]

On TZVZ or in general?

[Itchybottom]

Without egg-shaped pumice, there is no classic PVP. Not only could you pumice bomb the pancakes out of a twink, then gank them, you could instant pumice your root off, click your jboots to fill the top slot to cancel the next dispel and move your ass. Also if memory serves, doesn't the Titanium client handle dispels differently than the classic client? I used to be anal retentive about my buff order (three junk buffs, including jboots, then real buffs with resists at the end with HP) so I could dispel myself without affecting my HP or resists.

Also, mages are screwed. You try to dispel root off your pet, and it gives a tried a cast a spell but you're protected message.

[Braelyn]

In general. If I understand things correctly, this EQ emulator's pvp system apparently has some flaws in it that make it different from classic EQ pvp, and Abacab was pointing those out.

[Kastro]

Mages can be coded to work just fine... we had a few Mages that absolutely raped.. Pojab and Kringe come to mind... think Jonantik and Handpartytowel were the toons names.. but yeah some people really learn the tricks of their classes.. i played an SK and would always spam clinging darkness during pvp and follow with a dooming or cascading when it stuck while the monks and wars destroyed them... Clinging was used because it is fast and hard to resist... a good thing for mages to use are their Summoned items.. many are very very usefull in pvp...
And with Kunark and Discs.. Monks rouges and Wars become very very lethal... Velious is very nice for SKs... with HT disc... Hp gear... nice MR gear... but anything thinking as a caster they will be able to dominate forever is nuts... They are very strong out the gate.. but once people start getting gear and rolling in groups.. they have to pick on stragelers mostly.

[Buhbuh]

Those mage pets in the beginning were double BSing for like 450 450 on TZVZ, haha

[Kastro]

http://a.imageshack.us/img265/8276/eq000141.th.png (http://img265.imageshack.us/i/eq000141.png/)
Im sure you have a few of me... but this fight was epic.. think you tstaff disced me and I harmshielded... Saved by the HT

[Buhbuh]

Ha! Yeah, Droga became a hot spot for all of us for a while =p. Good times! SK's only get harder too. That was a good one though. All my SS's are on another comp. That was right after we both got our epics, it looks like.

[Kastro]

Yeah just gotten epic and Spirit wracked cords... i might have been in there to try to get a pre nerf COS think the one in my inventory at that time was post nerf.. not sure.. cant remember if i was spamming cos in that fight.. cause if i had one i prolly would have.

[JayDee]

Look at you two idiots carrying a conversation with yourselves.

Shit ain't gonna happen bros. Go back to vztz. PEACE

P.S. <3 you buhbuh TZ represent

[Kastro]

Look at you two idiots carrying a conversation with yourselves.

Shit ain't gonna happen bros. Go back to vztz. PEACE

P.S. <3 you buhbuh TZ represent

Hehe yeah I actually just did log on VZ TZ this evening.. only saw like 2 yellow text the whole time...



Remember the term Skaagstered?

http://a.imageshack.us/img85/7605/eq000087.png (http://img85.imageshack.us/i/eq000087.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Itchybottom]

I finally found where the pushback is handled for clients. I have not decrypted how to set the packet yet. But I am getting close. I am not very fast at working with decompilers, but that is where I am at now. Looking through assembly language, tracing how that one part of the packet is handled.

Its only a 32 byte word. How hard could that be to figure out?

Hah. Hard. Let me tell ya. For someone like me who is not a super fast coder.

haynar

Look at 0x47f7xx, range 69 to 9F. That is how the client handles the event locally. You should be able to use the opcode 0x7834 structure interchangeably at quick glance into the stack and .data region.

[stormlord]

Not meant to diminish the population of the p99 server. If you enjoy pve by all means it's the perfect server. I think Rogean could make one hell of a pvp server as well, expanding the interest to another group of people. We only have one option right now, and we all know that it is dead. Be our Emu savior and give us a PVP home....

Sincerely,

Lots of inactive EQ'ers

Shut up already and start a pvp guild. Nothing is stopping you. It could be a nice place for twinks.

START IT. Get the political machine going. Do it. Complaining in forum is worthless.

I think it would be awesome role-playing. I'm tired of people like you not using what's available.

I remember role-playing guilds in 1999 coming at eachother. Take that to the next level and have real red pvp guilds with guild warfare. If you make a good website, make a good community, people will make red alts just to experience it. Build it and they will come. The machismo and bragging rights will keep the machine strong.

I've played on every live pvp server in EQ. Vallon Zek, Sullon Zek, Rallos Zek, Zek. I've been there.

It doesn't need to be practical. Do it for fun. Do it to be different. Use the geography. Use the culture. Be creative. Make fun. Stab people in the back. It just seems like people are more interested in bitching.

All of this fighting could make an excellent backdrop for non-pvp players. I think it would be fun to watch a couple pvp characters go at each other in qeynos while I do my normal non-pvp stuff.

[Aerist]

Shut up already and start a pvp guild. Nothing is stopping you. It could be a nice place for twinks.

START IT. Get the political machine going. Do it. Complaining in forum is worthless.

I think it would be awesome role-playing. I'm tired of people like you not using what's available.

I remember role-playing guilds in 1999 coming at eachother. Take that to the next level and have real red pvp guilds with guild warfare. If you make a good website, make a good community, people will make red alts just to experience it. Build it and they will come. The machismo and bragging rights will keep the machine strong.

I've played on every live pvp server in EQ. Vallon Zek, Sullon Zek, Rallos Zek, Zek. I've been there.
It doesn't need to be practical. Do it for fun. Do it to be different. Use the geography. Use the culture. Be creative. Make fun. Stab people in the back. It just seems like people are more interested in bitching.

All of this fighting could make an excellent backdrop for non-pvp players. I think it would be fun to watch a couple pvp characters go at each other in qeynos while I do my normal non-pvp stuff.

Just bold'ing a coupel statements that make me laugh really hard at the fact that you have no clue, nor want any idea of what REAL pvp is. Cause if you have, then the real pvp'er in you would slap you in the face for even using this awful attempt to make pvp on a pve server, gg bluebie.

[Buhbuh]

Yeah, those transitions of thought don't even logically follow.

If you were on any of the Zek servers with any kind of high level character, I think you'd understand the point of view. The same can't be said for us, because many of us (PvP through and through) started on PvE servers and then transitioned over for new challenges/ experiences.

[Haynar]

Look at 0x47f7xx, range 69 to 9F. That is how the client handles the event locally. You should be able to use the opcode 0x7834 structure interchangeably at quick glance into the stack and .data region.
Thanks

The place I am working has to do with combat damage.

OP_Damage=0x5c78

struct CombatDamage_Struct
{
/* 00 */ int16 target;
/* 02 */ int16 source;
/* 04 */ int8 type; //slashing, etc. 231 (0xE7) for spells
/* 05 */ int16 spellid;
/* 07 */ int32 damage;
/* 11 */ int32 unknown11;
/* 15 */ int32 sequence;
/* 19 */ int32 unknown19;
/* 23 */
};

It turns out for combat damage when this packet is not paired with an action packet, the push due to melee is embedded in the sequence. That is what I am working on decoding. I just need to get more data from live. I made some test code, with known values for the sequence taken from live and could just push a client all over the place. But as this value varies, so does the direction of the push. I just have not got any time in the last week to play with it and get more data.

The cool place to play with on live, is in the water like in kedge keep. Because every hit contains the parts that cause push. On land, it is random when the push packet part is sent. But the magnitudes are same as in the water. But it will send the push, even on misses. But on a miss, when the code is sent, it does not cause push. Because the push is only 0.1 distance about, the client does not send updates until it has moved you a distance of 1 or somewhere there about. So you can do your own /loc after each hit, to see it move you.

Thats what I hope to get time to mess with in next few days. I will have one of the fishies in kedge push me in a circle. I think it is heading embedded in there. I tried nulling x movement and pushing +/- y directions, then vice versa, and the bit structures did not indicate it was sending x and y values. One attempt failed, but still working on it.

If you use hex-rays to make pseudocode, you can find

int8 type; //slashing, etc. 231 (0xE7) for spells

some places where there are checks for the type to be less than 0xE7, which would indicate combat based types. And I have been following the handling of those through the code. Or attempting that is.

Haynar

[HippoNipple]

Thanks

The place I am working has to do with combat damage.

OP_Damage=0x5c78

struct CombatDamage_Struct
{
/* 00 */ int16 target;
/* 02 */ int16 source;
/* 04 */ int8 type; //slashing, etc. 231 (0xE7) for spells
/* 05 */ int16 spellid;
/* 07 */ int32 damage;
/* 11 */ int32 unknown11;
/* 15 */ int32 sequence;
/* 19 */ int32 unknown19;
/* 23 */
};

It turns out for combat damage when this packet is not paired with an action packet, the push due to melee is embedded in the sequence. That is what I am working on decoding. I just need to get more data from live. I made some test code, with known values for the sequence taken from live and could just push a client all over the place. But as this value varies, so does the direction of the push. I just have not got any time in the last week to play with it and get more data.

The cool place to play with on live, is in the water like in kedge keep. Because every hit contains the parts that cause push. On land, it is random when the push packet part is sent. But the magnitudes are same as in the water. But it will send the push, even on misses. But on a miss, when the code is sent, it does not cause push. Because the push is only 0.1 distance about, the client does not send updates until it has moved you a distance of 1 or somewhere there about. So you can do your own /loc after each hit, to see it move you.

Thats what I hope to get time to mess with in next few days. I will have one of the fishies in kedge push me in a circle. I think it is heading embedded in there. I tried nulling x movement and pushing +/- y directions, then vice versa, and the bit structures did not indicate it was sending x and y values. One attempt failed, but still working on it.

If you use hex-rays to make pseudocode, you can find

int8 type; //slashing, etc. 231 (0xE7) for spells

some places where there are checks for the type to be less than 0xE7, which would indicate combat based types. And I have been following the handling of those through the code. Or attempting that is.

Haynar

Its not going to matter with my regained concentration anyways, I will still get my snare/fear off... at least it gives the poor tanks hope.

[Itchybottom]

If you use hex-rays to make pseudocode, you can find

int8 type; //slashing, etc. 231 (0xE7) for spells

some places where there are checks for the type to be less than 0xE7, which would indicate combat based types. And I have been following the handling of those through the code. Or attempting that is.

I've never seen any value other than queues for debug string text messages (slash, crush, hit, etc) on that value in the combat structure. There actually used to be two types, one for each hand. That's how one of the nodelay kill hacks worked, because the offhand data in the struct was still very much present in client/server, just not used. So people were able to spoof combat packets to hit at 0 delay with an empty offhand. Now that's split up between attack1Struct and attack2Struct, I'm not overly certain that anyone has bothered mapping them out aside from the Forever-Hacking crew.

Did any type of fling effect ever get corrected on EQEMU? I tend to recall Grieg Veneficus, and Cazic-Thule always throwing people north. PlayerPosCode has always been padded, and there is data after the x/y/z values -- goofing off with them before I was a GM on ProjectEQ, (keeping length at 22 total) moved me all over the place.

[Xebekn]

#1 Unfortunately, whoever alluded to the issue of a pvp server's community being dysfunctional was completely correct. Coming from a PvP environment on Live and here on the Emu, I completely understand the dynamic that a PvP'er brings to the table in all aspects, especially in a functioning (or lack thereof) community of people. We, as a community, do not bring the typical environment that most people who play EQ want to see. As it happens though, we can tolerate one another long enough to kill each other. I guess my point is this: sure, a pvp server would bring in the dregs of society but you don't have to put up with them...we do. And by we, I mean the pvp player base. If you would like to play on a server like this without those guys, I would just make a guild dedicated to killing the loudmouths and grind them into the curb (even though I personally enjoy the humor associated with that type). That would be a pretty interesting dynamic itself. I just don't see the immaturity that pvp attracts being an issue for people I guess; it never was for me at least. But then again, I could be wrong. If you're going to have a pvp server though, you're going to have to deal with that dynamic because it is inevitable as I see it.

#2 Please don't make this server. I like my life currently.

[Gamkek]

We didn't have all this whining about camp stealing and raid rotations on RZ.

Soooooooo ridiculously fucking truth. Thank you. Most annoying shit ever.

[Itchybottom]

Nah, on Rallos we had the anti vs PK whining. Just as bad.

[Crazycloud]

Me and 2 others would play if this gets made. I've played on SZ since it's came out and it was by far the most enjoyable and most hate able server. If Sullonzek was made 10 level range with no training it would of been a more lasting server then it was. There was always 3 top guilds.

[vincin]

pvp sucks. you are just one of those people who want to ruin a good game.


"if you are reading this you just wasted 3 seconds"

"and another 2"

[cured]

I wonder exactly how large the PvP community would be on one of these servers...definitely want to find that out.

[Aerist]

I'd probably guesstimate with Rogean running things, it would open up at around 300+ easily. Enough to make any pvp'er drool

[Smuuglie]

pvp sucks. you are just one of those people who want to ruin a good game.


"if you are reading this you just wasted 3 seconds"

"and another 2"


More like you are ruining OUR fun with your selfish manners.

[Smuuglie]

I'd probably guesstimate with Rogean running things, it would open up at around 300+ easily. Enough to make any pvp'er drool

I'm fairly sure it would hit the 500s, I have bonds with many of the RZ/SZ main guilds that moved on to WoW and such, they would most definately start on the server, but stay? thats another story.

[Humerox]

SZ style rules sans teams, add item loot.

This way, if you talk trash to me in a group or I don't like your face...I'll kill you and take your stuffs. If you make a pansy druid, I'll stand on your spawn point and smoke you till you beg for mercy.

I mean...the first time I logged into RZ it was like PK! PK! PK!, in shout. I was like...yah, ain't that the point?

[Toomuch]

SZ style rules sans teams...

I mean...the first time I logged into RZ it was like PK! PK! PK!, in shout. I was like...yah, ain't that the point?

Yeah... imo the problem is the "sans teams" part. Hardcoded teams made it so there was no other bullshit that people could create to stop you from pvping. And on SZ there wasn't any bullshit crossteaming either (for the most part anyways, sometimes there were short term truces or even alliances, but you couldn't heal each other or group or anything). I agree the training on SZ was dumb, especially with the pussies who couldn't do it without macroquest. I think that's the only time I ever agreed with Crazycloud :) Haha! I, as well, by the way, would go to a Sullon-ish type server in a heartbeat, pvp is where it's at... even if it can't be perfectly balanced. As long as intelligent attempts are made at fairness and the server is moderated decently to constantly purge hackers, it would be an absolute blast :D. Although I would suggest one change to the old Sullon ruleset: Good Vs Evil, period. None of this neutral crap. Neutral team PC's shared too much space with Good team PC's, while the evil team could do whatever the hell they wanted untouched forever (and on top of this, they VASTLY outnumbered good and neutral combined anyways).

Oh and another thing, unless it was coded so that you could not use any offensive abilities on your guild mates, it wouldnt be the same. I'm not sure if it was like that on rallos, but as I understand it, it wasn't. PVP on a large scale often calls for AE spells, like ae tash or PBAE nuking at a zoneline. FFA ruleset kills that :(

[JayDee]

Yeah... imo the problem is the "sans teams" part. Hardcoded teams made it so there was no other bullshit that people could create to stop you from pvping. And on SZ there wasn't any bullshit crossteaming either (for the most part anyways, sometimes there were short term truces or even alliances, but you couldn't heal each other or group or anything). I agree the training on SZ was dumb, especially with the pussies who couldn't do it without macroquest. I think that's the only time I ever agreed with Crazycloud :) Haha! I, as well, by the way, would go to a Sullon-ish type server in a heartbeat, pvp is where it's at... even if it can't be perfectly balanced. As long as intelligent attempts are made at fairness and the server is moderated decently to constantly purge hackers, it would be an absolute blast :D. Although I would suggest one change to the old Sullon ruleset: Good Vs Evil, period. None of this neutral crap. Neutral team PC's shared too much space with Good team PC's, while the evil team could do whatever the hell they wanted untouched forever (and on top of this, they VASTLY outnumbered good and neutral combined anyways).

Oh and another thing, unless it was coded so that you could not use any offensive abilities on your guild mates, it wouldnt be the same. I'm not sure if it was like that on rallos, but as I understand it, it wasn't. PVP on a large scale often calls for AE spells, like ae tash or PBAE nuking at a zoneline. FFA ruleset kills that :(

If you hard coded teams on an emu pvp server nowadays, you'd only have 2 or 3 targets lolol.

[Drasis]

PvP Teams was amazing in classic. Besides how the hell would trolls and gnomes ever really coexist peacefully? Interracial fighting made the game more rewarding. Now I never have to watch my back and that always disappoints me a little.

There's no way the P1999 team has time for it but its def the way to go imo.

[ShadowWulf]

Ya know I was going to respond to the whole "PvP communities are cruel and dysfunctional" With my 5+ years in EvE Online as a functional community thern I remembered besides the fact I personally sold 2 alliances up the creek for the highest bidder, trapped a titan, and fiddled with noobs in the bum dressed as a priest, in ADDITION to the rest of events the game is infamous for from other such players...

Yea, pvp communitys are pretty fucking sociopathic.

With that said if Rogean had a PvP server id join in a heartbeat.

[PhelanKA]

Yea, pvp communitys are pretty fucking sociopathic.


"Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, but t least it was an ethos. Nihilists. Fuck me."

[mimixownzall]

Imballance promoted grouping in pvp.

If I wanted to hear people cry about pvp ballanced around 1v1 (which everyone is talking about). Then I'll go back to WoW.

Rarely on Sullon Zek did you see singles runnin around in highly contested areas.

The epic battles that ensued were unlike any other game also.

What started out as one or two people corpse camping turned into everyone bringing as many people possible to an epic scale slaughter. There would be over 200 people in a zone warring. It was the best.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

"Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, but t least it was an ethos. Nihilists. Fuck me."

Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of.

[mimixownzall]

So really.. What ruleset would most players prefer? Myself I prefer Rallos... But sullon with all teams having all classes would be prety cool as well...

Why do people keep saying all teams need all classes?

This is not how the SZ worked. Making all classes available for all teams would defeat the purpose of having Good, Neutral and Evil teams.

Evil Paladin? Good Shadow Knight?

Don't try to fix what wasn't broken.

I wouldn't play enless it had SZ rules (or lack thereof). But, these wouldn't work because a majority of people are too soft to deal with it. The first time most people get corpse camped, and GM's tell them it is legal whent hey petition, they would say eff that.

[Aerist]

hard coded sullon zek format, good neut evil...I played on VZ and while I enjoyed its format, cross teaming sucked...

Rogean i'm ready to spend 2011 on your new pvp server you're dying to create

[Xebekn]

I don't have a preference on team set but on the subject of rules, Sullon Zek hardcore rules would not work. I loved SZ but most people aren't able to stick that out and I would rather have a sustained population that I can continue to play against on a daily basis. It eventually caught up with SZ, it was a ghost town before the merger. It just doesn't work and (event though I couldn't fathom it at the time) does, in fact, encourage people to quit playing. Do the teams how you want but someone has to be around to police the server.

That being said, I see some pretty rough humps to get over:

1) Staff to police the server. I don't know how it is with the PvE server but I imagine there has to be some sort of staff policing trains, camp stealing, etc. Where it gets hairy is the blatant disrespect that the PvP community displays toward GM's that I'm not sure is occupied on a PvE server. Anyone care to comment on the PvE aspect of courteous behavior toward GM's?

2) MacroQuest use. It will kill the server. Plain and simple.

Those are the potential time and patience sinks I see for GM's. If you care to add any others, do it.

Also: if you market this server the right way, I could see over 1K+ on here. If you do announce another server that will be pvp oriented, announce it 3+ months in advance and give an exact day and time for the server to start. This will allow people 3+ months to tell everyone they know, set up guilds and forums, set plans etc. I begged VZTZ to do this but they were too gun happy (can't say I blame them).

[Overcast]

2) MacroQuest use. It will kill the server. Plain and simple.


Yeah, Macroquest is like Viagra for video games. If you can't make it work yourself then...

[Crazycloud]

Wow..... toomuch there's a name i haven't seen forever and always fought against haha.... but what xebekn said was straight on point. This sever will reach 1+k population if done correctly.

[Toomuch]

We had some good battles in our day didn't we Crazycloud :) we kinda had a grudge match "who's the better ranger" thing goin on if my memory serves correctly. Then again, perception is reality, maybe you didn't see it the same way I did. Either way though, we were fighting from like level 20ish on, it was awesome lol. Oh man I miss old sullon so bad sometimes. Too bad it died :(

[Crazycloud]

Haha... i sure did buddy. We fought so damn much during our SZ times it was damn great. Those was the days.. i really miss it :( . Those were the days where you find pvp no matter what zone you went into. No need to box and port around for pvp.

[Pheer]

wtf hi crazycloud


remember the ranger/sk vs ranger/sk 2v2 me and kaelvan had against you and dtouch on that emu server?

[Crazycloud]

Hey Pheer long time no see. Yeah i sure do remember, Dtouched = Zarkore my brother irl he remembers also. SoD guildwars was fun i miss it.