Poor and Rich, no middle?!

[KwwBall]

I have been playing on p99 now for a few weeks, and loving it. It has had its up and downs. It appears that there is a vast different in wealth on this server though.

In essence, it seems like your either poor, or rich. When decent starting weapons for anyone are around 100-300pp, but that is what you pretty much have until 1) you get lucky with a good drop in a group or 2) you save up for MONTHS to get one piece of equipment.

I don't remember it being like that in original EQ. There were decent priced upgrades all the way to 60. Currently as it is, I'm 23rd level, and I think that these weapons I have will pretty much be what I have until 60. Then at that point why would I want some of these other weapons that would have served me good from 30-60 when I will most likely get a weapon that is basically for a level 60 character.

Anyone else notice this? Is it because of the uniqueness of this server? Is it because Kunark has been out for so long and no Velious?

I think that some of these level 60 players who are holding on to decent weapons to sell but will not give anyone who is a new player leveling a decent deal need to rethink the value of what they have.

[Tecmos Deception]

You should be more specific. There is a decent change that the 100-300pp weapons you call starting weapons WERE acceptable for 50+ characters to be using on live. What class are you? What weapons do you have now? What individual pieces of gear do you think you need MONTHS to save up for (as if level 23s should be doing that anyways instead of just XPing!) that you would have been able to get more easily on live? Why do you seem to think there is something wrong with having to be lucky with a good drop in a group in order to get an upgrade? Who are you running into who, after explaining that you are a legit new player seeking upgrades (and again, what class are you?), who is refusing to help you out with the price?

[Grimfan]

Is it because of the uniqueness of this server? Is it because Kunark has been out for so long and no Velious?

I believe so, yes.

[KwwBall]

You should be more specific. There is a decent change that the 100-300pp weapons you call starting weapons WERE acceptable for 50+ characters to be using on live. What class are you? What weapons do you have now? What individual pieces of gear do you think you need MONTHS to save up for (as if level 23s should be doing that anyways instead of just XPing!) that you would have been able to get more easily on live? Who are you running into who, after explaining that you are a legit new player seeking upgrades (and again, what class are you?), who is refusing to help you out with the price?

I wasn't looking exactly to get into specifics. Just putting a thread out there to see what people have to say about the issue. First off I'm a paladin. And your right, a good portion of the weapons that are around the price range I put up were acceptable for characters 50+ . It has to be the uniqueness of the server that makes the price differences on items so staggering.

[KwwBall]

It seems it goes for almost all items, not just weapons. Basically you can get GREAT gear for CHEAP because of the uniqueness of this server, that then, when you look for upgrades, makes you gawk at the prices. For a small example, get a great Green Jade Broadsword for around 200pp, but then when you look for an upgrade from that the prices are crazy high.

That leads to this perception I have that your either poor or rich, no in between. Make a little more sense? Is there a way to fix it? Does it need to be fixed? What kind of pros and cons does this do to a thriving marketplace?

[Sebekkha]

Hunt me down when I am online I will check my bank to see if I have enough PP to buy you a ghoulbane

[KwwBall]

Hunt me down when I am online I will check my bank to see if I have enough PP to buy you a ghoulbane

I appreciate the offer. I didn't make this thread to look for handouts though. I do appreciate it very much though! I'll look you up in game.

In an effort to keep this thread from potentially derailing if you have interest in helping me out go ahead and send me a PM.

I'm very much interested on what other people think about this topic. If your new to the server, an old vet, poor, rich, ect...

[Buriedpast]

Well

A 10/18 seb dirk drops off a level 55 requiring a full group and careful pulls of 53-55+ peeps.
Are you saying it should be 2000pp, so it is a nice step from a 200pp 11/22 jarsarth trident?

A Jarsarth Trident drops from a level 51?ish mob in KC. Requiring a group of 45-55
Should it be any cheaper than 100-200pp? Most people can afford this by level 12-14...for a level 50 weapon that is absolutely fine to use until 60 in classic.

[Tecmos Deception]

Paladin weapons go like this: you've got very few paladins on the server, so basically all of the paladin weapons that are remotely easy to obtain are pretty cheap. Baton of faith, sword of the mourning, etc. If a weapon is usable by other classes too, or has a fancy proc, like a wurmslayer or poison wind censer or runed blade or something, it is more expensive. And if you look at paladin-only but best-in-slot stuff like a rod of faith, it costs a ton because it is best-in-slot AND only will be purchased by twinks (since a paladin who is high enough to get it with a group or to afford it otherwise would already have his epic) AND it is a rare drop off a rare mob in a pain-in-the-ass zone.

Fortunately for you as a paladin, you can just buy a baton of faith if you like 2h weapons or a sword of the morning+shield if you like 1h weapons and rock that until you can finish your epic around 50 and you'll be a more effective tank than a warrior swinging 300k worth of weapons.

[Tecmos Deception]

Gear IS like that in general though, yeah. A lot of gear that was probably a middle-ground on live is basically cheap as dirt on here. The slow timeline on here has probably caused lots of low-level gear but few low-level players. So buying low- or mid-quality gear can be really cheap. But then when you have a huge number of high-level players compared to on live, well, the longer time in the expansion to farm higher-end gear isn't enough to keep prices down in the face of such high demand for those items + platinum inflation that is also the result of the slow timeline.

[Jimjam]

In essence, it seems like your either poor, or rich. When decent starting weapons for anyone are around 100-300pp, but that is what you pretty much have until 1) you get lucky with a good drop in a group or 2) you save up for MONTHS to get one piece of equipment.

I think this is where the 'problem' is. Near end game weapons are available for a pittance. Of course the very best things are at a premium or are loot only.

Back in classic you would work you way up through fine steel / mino axes and so on. Now you spend your first few levels farming decaying skeletons, spiderlings and bears, giving you enough money for a weapon with a ratio better than anything that was in the game at release with change for a passable set of armour for the next 30 levels.

If you're looking for a game where you have meaningful upgrades to look forward to as your character levels up then don't use EC mart and plan your hunting around drops you want to acquire, forming groups to hit up those camps if needs be.

[KwwBall]

Well

A 10/18 seb dirk drops off a level 55 requiring a full group and careful pulls of 53-55+ peeps.
Are you saying it should be 2000pp, so it is a nice step from a 200pp 11/22 jarsarth trident?

A Jarsarth Trident drops from a level 51?ish mob in KC. Requiring a group of 45-55
Should it be any cheaper than 100-200pp? Most people can afford this by level 12-14...for a level 50 weapon that is absolutely fine to use until 60 in classic.

That's what I'm getting at. Should it be? I don't know. More than likely with the current state of the game, no it shouldn't be. That's what leads to the poor or rich idea. No middle ground ;)

[Tecmos Deception]

If SCDs should be 2k just because kww thinks so, then I WTB a ragebringer for 10k please. I need a new alt.

Hell. Mage epic is the only upgrade from a 1k pet spell right? WTB mage epic MQ 5k.

[KwwBall]

Lol. I didn't say that should be the price. I said I don't know. Just seeing what people have to say about this topic :)

[Tecmos Deception]

Lol. I didn't say that should be the price. I said I don't know.

More than likely with the current state of the game, no it shouldn't be.


Getting pretty hard to not troll this thread. You seemed legitimately curious/confused originally, but now you just seem like you're veiling begging attempts and/or whines about the economy behind higher-level philosphical/economic mumbo jumbo.

[Tecmos Deception]

You should be arguing that there is no poor, not that there is no middle class. You yourself have admitted that you already bought gear that would have been acceptable on live at 50+ on your first character who is merely 23.

[rollin5k]

It's not that there's no middle ground anymore, it's just that no one cares about the low level stuff anymore. It's just that ballin stuff is so cheap then to upgrade is really expensive.
There is no low class poor in this server. Only upper middle class and then top tier best possible class.

[Tecmos Deception]

You paladins should just be giving away your everything to follow your lord and savior quellious/prexus/rodcet/mithaniel/brell/tunare around anyways! Curing the blind and diseased, laying on hands, expelling evil spirits, etc. Don't need any fancy gear for that.

[myxomatosii]

I'll try to express this visually.

On EQ Live in 99 I think it used to be like this.

1 Poor
5 Poor
10 Poor
15 Poor
20 Poor
25 Poor
30 Poor
35 Decent
40 Decent
45 Decent
50 Decent
55 Decent
60 Decent
60 Decent
60 Good
60 Good
60 Good
60 Good
60 Good
60 Leet

On P99 its more like this. The jumps can vary but with handouts and cheap over-farmed gear I think this is a good estimate.

1 Poor
5 Poor
10 Decent
15 Decent
20 Decent
25 Decent
30 Good
35 Good
40 Good
45 Good
50 Good
55 Leet
60 Leet
60 Leet
60 Godleet
60 Godleet
60 Insanely Godleet Plat-rain
60 Insanely Godleet Plat-rain
60 Insanely Godleet Plat-rain
60 Insanely Godleet Plat-rain

So instead of being poor, you're actually middle class, and middle class before you would've been on EQ Live. Take for example my 54 monk on live, he never had a Wu's Trance Stick leveling up even in CoM. Now its rare to see a level 6 monk without a Wu's Trance Stick in FoB because you can pick them up for near nothing in EC. Also you are comparing yourself to people with nearly one of each class at 60. Its quite difficult to obtain various 60s without gaining quite a bit of money along the way in drops and such. So while your bar for yourself is higher, the bar you are trying to attain has also increased leading to the illusion of being poor.

My two coppers.

[Tecmos Deception]

Take for example my 54 monk on live, he never had a Wu's Trance Stick leveling up even in CoM. Now its rare to see a level 6 monk without a Wu's Trance Stick in FoB because you can pick them up for near nothing in EC.

Lol. I remember "twinking" a level 20 ranger with a silver swiftblade on live and feeling like I was so god damn awesome killing beetles in the karanas.

[Sarajo]

As the ease of acquiring a certain item goes up, the price that consumers are willing to pay for it goes down. The higher the price of an item, the more suppliers are willing to sell it. Eventually the two, the supply curve and the demand curve, meet together in a place called the "supply/demand equilibrium", which is that exact point between the price and the quantity of the item.

(Someone took economics last semester for the first time.)

Next question: What is money? Usually it's a representation of one portion of an entire country's wealth. The more of the money that's printed, the less it's worth, because whether there are 100 dollars in the entire country or 3 trillion, each dollar is just a reciprocal portion of the country's entire wealth. If you pictured stuffing all of these new dollars into a giant garbage bag that just keeps stretching, you see how the term "inflation" comes around. The more money there is in circulation, the bigger the garbage bag, the more it inflates, and the less each piece of money is worth. So how does that translate to platz?

Every time you kill A_Decaying_Skeleton_01 and get your 1 copper/1 bone chip drop, you just increased inflation and decreased the value of all of the money out there, including your 1 copper and the 5 gold you were hoping to get for that bone chip someday in EC /auc. Also, this is why petitioning for free plat doesn't work; "HEy rogean gimme 400k lol" is like saying "Please devalue all of the platinum ingame, and since you're giving me 400k give everyone 400k which would make plat even less valuable, meaning that people would want even more of it, so they're going to raise the prices on things even more"

Game developers have to put "money sinks" into the game, just like they have to put in time sinks to keep top-level players from feeling like there's nothing to do, getting bored, and moving on to the next "next-gen" MMO around the corner. Time sinks are things like fear drops, repeatable quests, Kael armor quests, and sometimes too true: corpse runs. Money sinks are food and drink, JBoots (The 3500g part), epic quests that require a few hundred plat, skills trainin, and spell scrolls.

The conflict starts when you have a maximum-level character. They don't need money anymore, yet they keep acquiring it. If you played your level 60 and farmed blackburrow all day, all you would do is loot and never die and make barbs and humans cry. You are the 1%. All of that money you're getting from selling rusty weapons, and only taking breaks to destroy those useless stacks of gnoll fangs, is just piling up and creating more inflation and raising prices(directly and indirectly) of the high-demand items.

Whose interest is it in to have such a gap? No one really, except for real money traders. This is the only exchange rate possible in our closed economic system; it's not like humans use one currency, Iksar another, and Elves another. We all use platinum. But then there are some rich assholes who are too entitled, even when playing a game like classic-era EQ, to go through the grind like all of the other peasants out there. Platinum now becomes the commodity sold by the gold farmer, and by increasing inflation in-game they create more of a demand for platinum which means they can sell it for more dollars. The higher the price, the more that suppliers are willing to supply it, right?

TL; DR: Inflation, which favors real-money trade. Supply/demand economics, which creates a strained middle-class. Do your duty to fight it all by not buying overpriced crap, and by undercutting all of those half-AFK half-bots in the tunnel.

[KwwBall]

Getting pretty hard to not troll this thread. You seemed legitimately curious/confused originally, but now you just seem like you're veiling begging attempts and/or whines about the economy behind higher-level philosphical/economic mumbo jumbo.

Sorry. I meant that no it shouldn't be that the SCD should sell for 2k, I'm saying that it should stay the way it is. Wasn't clear.

Think what you will. I am curious and a little confused, but the confusion is clearing the more I see what people have to say.

[sulpher01]

Stembolt gets it!

[KwwBall]

Ya so pretty much there isn't really anyone who is poor on p99. Thanks myxomatosii and Sarajo, as well as everyone else who has participated.

It seems to me that the amount of money that comes into the economy is vastly larger than the money that leaves via money sinks. Original EQ IMO didn't have a whole bunch of money sinks, compared to other MMO's now.

Do you think this is a problem for p99? Maybe the people in charge should invent new money sinks?

[KwwBall]

Vanity items maybe? Like items that cast an illusion on yourself? Make it something super crazy prices like 500k for that one item that turns you into a werewolf or whatever.

[sulpher01]

Wouldn't be a classic server then.

[Jimjam]

Sarajo

You are forgetting it isn't just the plat that becomes worth less. More and more items enter the economy, probably at a rate faster than they are destroyed, and like the plat the abundance of these devalues them (see the trance stick example).

I suppose this leads to an interesting situation where some items are devaluing faster than plat, where as other hard to acquire items might devalue more slowly than platinum.

[Ajkuhuun]

Actually the prices here are pretty much on part with what I remember on live at this point in history, granted I was on the server with guilds like Conquest but I suppose everyone has their big guild equivalent on their old server. But quite honestly it seems pretty normal to me.

[myxomatosii]

Stembolt gets it!

:o

Ya so pretty much there isn't really anyone who is poor on p99. Thanks myxomatosii and Sarajo, as well as everyone else who has participated.

It seems to me that the amount of money that comes into the economy is vastly larger than the money that leaves via money sinks. Original EQ IMO didn't have a whole bunch of money sinks, compared to other MMO's now.

Do you think this is a problem for p99? Maybe the people in charge should invent new money sinks?

This is brought up maybe once a month in various incarnations, polls, & RnF discussions but there hasn't been much commentary from the staff. They have a lot to think about so most of us don't really worry. Also the people it impacts typically keep playing, get rich, and stop bringing it up :)

Glad I could help. I thought my suggestion made sense and in my experience its been the case. You should be glad you have something to aspire to really, the multi-tiered system and impossibility of 'being the best' makes it feel like there is always something more to do. And with the variation and difficulty of all the dungeons, there is.

Vanity items maybe? Like items that cast an illusion on yourself? Make it something super crazy prices like 500k for that one item that turns you into a werewolf or whatever.

If you can come up with a suggestion to fix the system, post it by all means. Some might mock you a bit only because they've seen it posted 100x but ignore them and listen to the helpful people. If your idea holds water it'll stay around (if the GMs entertain it).

[Tenlaar]

Actually the prices here are pretty much on part with what I remember on live at this point in history, granted I was on the server with guilds like Conquest but I suppose everyone has their big guild equivalent on their old server. But quite honestly it seems pretty normal to me.

If you remember 100k fungis and 130k+ torpor, etc., then we obviously played EQ in alternate realities.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

Yeah 100k is way too cheap, Tallon Zek had them for 260k.

The good ol days were when the bazaar first came out, and i would stock up on any fine steel BP i could get my hands on. Then, id setup shop with a ceremonial iksar chestplate for 5k (which was crazy), then as Id see people running towards me I would swap out the ikky for one of my worthless BPs and they would buy it every time. Saved up enough to get a fungi and then did the same thing.... When they went for 250k+, Id set my price at 100k and people would buy 100k small cloth tunics by the truckload.



Ahhhh Tallon Zek :)

[Teppler]

Yeah 100k is way too cheap, Tallon Zek had them for 260k.

The good ol days were when the bazaar first came out, and i would stock up on any fine steel BP i could get my hands on. Then, id setup shop with a ceremonial iksar chestplate for 5k (which was crazy), then as Id see people running towards me I would swap out the ikky for one of my worthless BPs and they would buy it every time. Saved up enough to get a fungi and then did the same thing.... When they went for 250k+, Id set my price at 100k and people would buy 100k small cloth tunics by the truckload.



Ahhhh Tallon Zek :)


http://somefeels.com/img/bertstare.jpg

[drktmplr12]

Ait's not like humans use one currency, Iksar another, and Elves another.

We should do this.

[drktmplr12]

Yeah 100k is way too cheap, Tallon Zek had them for 260k.

The good ol days were when the bazaar first came out, and i would stock up on any fine steel BP i could get my hands on. Then, id setup shop with a ceremonial iksar chestplate for 5k (which was crazy), then as Id see people running towards me I would swap out the ikky for one of my worthless BPs and they would buy it every time. Saved up enough to get a fungi and then did the same thing.... When they went for 250k+, Id set my price at 100k and people would buy 100k small cloth tunics by the truckload.



Ahhhh Tallon Zek :)

http://clgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/seriously-face-465x300.jpg

Generally this is a story you keep to yourself lol

[quido]

I twinked a rogue pre-kunark with a bone razor and mithril arms and legs and a rubi bp - god damn that shit was awesome

[Byrjun]

If you remember 100k fungis and 130k+ torpor, etc., then we obviously played EQ in alternate realities.

I remember Torpor going for about 90k and Fungis going for 100k+.

The biggest thing keeping the cost of Torpor high is the fact that no one kills trash mobs in VP.

Also, there's a lot more 60 shamans on p99 than there was on live because there is a lot more 60 everything.

Demand is high, supply is low, 130k+ Torpors.

[Iumuno]

Sarajo

You are forgetting it isn't just the plat that becomes worth less. More and more items enter the economy, probably at a rate faster than they are destroyed, and like the plat the abundance of these devalues them (see the trance stick example).

I suppose this leads to an interesting situation where some items are devaluing faster than plat, where as other hard to acquire items might devalue more slowly than platinum.

You're spot on. Most items are actually entering the game faster than plat is accumulating, so they devalue even faster. They will eventually hit a bottom, which isthe value of the inventory slot needed to carry it around until sold, plus the time necessary to find a buyer, and this will vary from one individual to another.

It was very rare on live to see an item actually increase in price over time, unless the item was changed or the drop rate decreased (like it happened with Fungi Tunics). I hardly see it being different on p1999.

That said, some of the observations of the OP are correct. But that's because as you go up in item quality for most slots, the desirability goes up (better item) while supply goes down (rarer drops), with both factors having an exponential effect on the final price.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

Yeah theres a special EQ hell waiting for me. Im thinking it will be like a permanent corpse run where I never quite make it to my corpse and die a very slow, agonizing death every few minutes.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

But i do feel like i was one of the forerunners for causing devs to redesign the bazaar trading window look and feel :)

[Spacebar]

If your sore for funds you need to do what I do. I make my fat stacks o platz flippin' dem Vik's Dark Defenders in the tunnel, ya herd?

But seriously, there are a lot of reasons the economy is a bit silly here. Most have already been mentioned, but another is that we have near perfect information. People know that there is basically no replacement for a fungi, so it can be valuable not only because it is awesome, but also because it can be held onto to check against monetary inflation. Likewise, people know that Torpor Shaman are basically god-mode in velious, soo....a f*ck-ton of shaman roll on this server=demand increase for shaman stuff. Same way with high-end monk stuff.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Things are priced quite differently than on live for a variety of reasons and IMO the pricing is quite reasonable based on what we know about the game now and how much better a lot of us have gotten in understanding it.

Look at some of the old screenshots and you'll see that:
- haste is very much under-valued on live (fbss were commonly seen at 4-7k)
- stats were over valued (lamentation 7k lol)
- large stratification in regen items (rubicite was super expensive, ikky Bp was cheap, fungi was at least double the p99 price). P99 price for regen actually scales very nicely (compare price vs. regen amount).

Bottom line is, aside from items that no longer drop, the prices for items in the game are very much in line with their known value in terms of strength.

Spells not so much.

[Reguiy]

Just think of it as a marathon, not a sprint. Starting out on this server really blows since it's very difficult to make a relevant amount of money until you're 50+. Incidental plat you get from leveling up is hardly worth anything (ie - selling fine steel, gems, etc). And farming for plat (ie - seafuries, farming hill giants, etc) is a relatively low source of income as plat values on the server are very low due to inflation. Once you get 50+ you'll be able to start farming items which yield much more cash.

[tristantio]

As has been mentioned, poor would be seeking items like Bone Bladed Claymore/Mino Axe/Tentacle Whip for your level (20s), not gear with ratios that are good 50+.

Theres basically the "junk" gear, overly common/easy to get/not in high demand for twinks, and the "good" gear, which is priced according to what twinks wanting best in slot will pay.

Also, while there may be an abundance of plat, there are always items to be gained at any level that higher levels will pay for (such as bone chips at 10pp/stack).

[Splorf22]

The OP is not wrong. Basically the server has been out for a while, so there is a huge difference in price between BiS and 2nd best.

Example:
FBSS 10k
Sash of the Dragonborn: 15k
RBG: 60k
Cloak of Flames: 125k

Or:
Hooded Black Cloak: 3.5k
Hierophant's Cloak: 45k

What irritates me, though, is the idea that it's hard to progress on this server. PLEASE. You can level insanely fast because half of your group is twinked to the gills and the other half has random dudes dropping in to give them high level buffs. You can then join a guild and the officers have probably been playing for two years and have literally every pixel in the game, so you are on the short list.

As a Paladin your path is PARTICULARLY easy because no one else plays the class. Join any casual guild and you'll have 41% haste and full valorium and such within a few months tops. Then you'll either get your books outright with the new raid rules or maybe buy them (only like 30k, which isn't that bad if you are 50+ and it is the fucking EPIC). Voila, Fiery Defender. Get lucky on a Hiero cloak in the crypt and boom, you're done - Deepwater is trash anyway with AC not working properly.

[joejccva71]

Ya so pretty much there isn't really anyone who is poor on p99. Thanks myxomatosii and Sarajo, as well as everyone else who has participated.

It seems to me that the amount of money that comes into the economy is vastly larger than the money that leaves via money sinks. Original EQ IMO didn't have a whole bunch of money sinks, compared to other MMO's now.

Do you think this is a problem for p99? Maybe the people in charge should invent new money sinks?

I have 5 plat to my name. I just started my character the other night and I'm only level 4. I would say that I am pretty poor. I don't have a high level character to twink him out with.

[Dweed]

For a pally you can get verrry nice gear for cheep, exceptions being maybe some black saph jewlery, RBG, and a heiro cloak. So a few purchasable items to strive for someday, alongside epic and raid drops.

Seems like a reasonable progression.

[Splorf22]

Also, just to add: a new server would not solve this problem. The problem we have is a lack of content: Nilbog (despite being a 1-man army) releases expansions much more slowly than Verant, while at the same time we have a very hard core playerbase who can look up exactly how to do everything on EQ live and zoom through things.

[Tecmos Deception]

Just think of it as a marathon, not a sprint.

within a few months tops.

Here's the issue for a lot of frustration on the server I think. EQ is the definition of a slow-paced MMO. It is not the place to come play and grind out xp to max level in a couple weeks and then get yourself decked out in uber gear in another few weeks after that. But a lot of people seem to forget that.

I've had the most fun on p99 (and experienced the least "burn out" playing it) with my enchanter, where I set long-term goals for him (do the solo artist challenge, get my epic, get rich) but kept them WAY in the back of my mind and just plugged away at the game in the meantime.

Everyone knows hell levels go by less painfully when you aren't watching your xp bar for every kill. Everyone knows leveling is more fun if you don't spend all your time beating yourself up over how far you still have until 60. But people treat gear/wealth on p99 differently it seems. We never have threads where people are demanding xp bonuses scaling inversely with level to help them catch up with all the 60s, but we CONSTANTLY have people making threads lamenting the high cost of uber gear and how difficult it is for new players to get that stuff.

[tristantio]

I have 5 plat to my name. I just started my character the other night and I'm only level 4. I would say that I am pretty poor. I don't have a high level character to twink him out with.

Welcome to p99!

Farm some bone chips, they sell for 10pp a stack all the time!

[Aeaolena]

I have 5 plat to my name. I just started my character the other night and I'm only level 4. I would say that I am pretty poor. I don't have a high level character to twink him out with.

Get a port to Greater Faydark.

Hunt / Group in Crushbone. If you get any belts/pads, you can sell those to other players (1pp per belt, 2pp per pad used to be the norm). That will help you get some nice newbie leather/chain off the merchants while you gain a few levels.

Once you get level 14 or so, head over to "Sister's camp" in Lesser Faydark. They drop bronze weapons and when your bags are full you can hike over to the woodelf inn (#10), sell, and skip back. You'll make 200pp a night, if not a lot more. Solo, or duo it with someone. (If someone is there ask them to send you a tell when they leave).
http://wiki.project1999.com/index.php/Lesser_Faydark
#14 is what I am referring to on the map, but #4 has Bandits with bronze weapons also.

The Aviak's that guard The Arena entrance in Lake Rathetear are also good (level 20 solo spot). They can drop Bronze weapons that sell for 1-4pp each also. Large Sewing Kits from the merchants are usually dirt cheap as 'bags' and can hold giant items, just fyi.
http://www.allakabor.com/eqatlas/lakerathetear.html

Sisters and Aviaks outside the Arena are the places where I culled pp to first upgrades while I was leveling Aeaolena. Beyond that, I am sure you could do a forum search for "Money Making Camps" and find ideas. Places that will earn you top dollar while you are leveling. Two birds with one stone, etc etc.

I also do not have familiarity on what level you need to camp or group for http://wiki.project1999.com/Vopuk_Shralok in Highpass..
But he is level 22 and high level characters will buy his shiny brass idol for upwards of 500pp it seems.
(Ref: http://wiki.project1999.com/Shiny_Brass_Idol)

Good luck!

[Tecmos Deception]

In before someone complains at Vowels for suggesting spots that (GASP) other people like to camp too!

[joejccva71]

Get a port to Greater Faydark.

Hunt / Group in Crushbone. If you get any belts/pads, you can sell those to other players (1pp per belt, 2pp per pad used to be the norm). That will help you get some nice newbie leather/chain off the merchants while you gain a few levels.

Once you get level 14 or so, head over to "Sister's camp" in Lesser Faydark. They drop bronze weapons and when your bags are full you can hike over to the woodelf inn (#10), sell, and skip back. You'll make 200pp a night, if not a lot more. Solo, or duo it with someone. (If someone is there ask them to send you a tell when they leave).
http://wiki.project1999.com/index.php/Lesser_Faydark
#14 is what I am referring to on the map, but #4 has Bandits with bronze weapons also.

The Aviak's that guard The Arena entrance in Lake Rathetear are also good (level 20 solo spot). They can drop Bronze weapons that sell for 1-4pp each also. Large Sewing Kits from the merchants are usually dirt cheap as 'bags' and can hold giant items, just fyi.
http://www.allakabor.com/eqatlas/lakerathetear.html

Sisters and Aviaks outside the Arena are the places where I culled pp to first upgrades while I was leveling Aeaolena. Beyond that, I am sure you could do a forum search for "Money Making Camps" and find ideas. Places that will earn you top dollar while you are leveling. Two birds with one stone, etc etc.

I also do not have familiarity on what level you need to camp or group for http://wiki.project1999.com/Vopuk_Shralok in Highpass..
But he is level 22 and high level characters will buy his shiny brass idol for upwards of 500pp it seems.
(Ref: http://wiki.project1999.com/Shiny_Brass_Idol)

Good luck!

Absolute sound advice. I thank you! :)

[teija]

Yeah 100k is way too cheap, Tallon Zek had them for 260k.

The good ol days were when the bazaar first came out, and i would stock up on any fine steel BP i could get my hands on. Then, id setup shop with a ceremonial iksar chestplate for 5k (which was crazy), then as Id see people running towards me I would swap out the ikky for one of my worthless BPs and they would buy it every time. Saved up enough to get a fungi and then did the same thing.... When they went for 250k+, Id set my price at 100k and people would buy 100k small cloth tunics by the truckload.



Ahhhh Tallon Zek :)

DUDE! i think u ripped me off on live lol. happened to me on TZ =/

I DEMAND MY FUNGI NOW ON P99!

[drktmplr12]

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/rottenecard_93605384_qphgmykjsr.png

[HeallunRumblebelly]

The OP is not wrong. Basically the server has been out for a while, so there is a huge difference in price between BiS and 2nd best.

Example:
FBSS 10k
Sash of the Dragonborn: 15k
RBG: 60k
Cloak of Flames: 125k

Or:
Hooded Black Cloak: 3.5k
Hierophant's Cloak: 45k

What irritates me, though, is the idea that it's hard to progress on this server. PLEASE. You can level insanely fast because half of your group is twinked to the gills and the other half has random dudes dropping in to give them high level buffs. You can then join a guild and the officers have probably been playing for two years and have literally every pixel in the game, so you are on the short list.

As a Paladin your path is PARTICULARLY easy because no one else plays the class. Join any casual guild and you'll have 41% haste and full valorium and such within a few months tops. Then you'll either get your books outright with the new raid rules or maybe buy them (only like 30k, which isn't that bad if you are 50+ and it is the fucking EPIC). Voila, Fiery Defender. Get lucky on a Hiero cloak in the crypt and boom, you're done - Deepwater is trash anyway with AC not working properly.


Yeah, but all of this is a sunk cost when they realize they're doing about 20 dps with an epic and 41 haste. lols.

[Lord_Snow]

I appreciate the offer. I didn't make this thread to look for handouts though. I do appreciate it very much though! I'll look you up in game.

In an effort to keep this thread from potentially derailing if you have interest in helping me out go ahead and send me a PM.

I'm very much interested on what other people think about this topic. If your new to the server, an old vet, poor, rich, ect...

Or ypu could get a group for upper guk to help you get GB in your 30's instead of being dissapointed again in your 40's for the lack of upgrades. Just saying that buying gear is not your only way to achievegetting the gear you want. You don't make much pp till your 30s anyway. Go do the FM giant fort from 30-40 and you'll bring in a few kpp in the process.

[Velerin]

Funny thing is its all this "junk" gear lowbies get cheap (quite powerful for the level used) that make classes like wizzies even less desirable in groups. Back in the day a wizard wasnt great but at least decent dps in a low level group. Now you're either crazy or real generous to add them in a low-mid lvl group.

[Tecmos Deception]

Funny thing is its all this "junk" gear lowbies get cheap (quite powerful for the level used) that make classes like wizzies even less desirable in groups. Back in the day a wizard wasnt great but at least decent dps in a low level group. Now you're either crazy or real generous to add them in a low-mid lvl group.

Good point. Draughts might not compare to a ragebringer, but they don't look quite so terrible when the level 50 rogue you're grouped with has a 10/20 piercer instead... lol.

[Jimjam]

There's a tonne of crazy generous people levelling up thru their 20s and 30s at the moment!

<3 you low/mid level guys on p99 these days!

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

DUDE! i think u ripped me off on live lol. happened to me on TZ =/

I DEMAND MY FUNGI NOW ON P99!

<3

but in reality it probably only caused a fuck ton of copycats

[NextGenesis88]

I have been in between poor and rich for a long time. I don't see what you are talking about, but I can understand a new player being envious and feeling like they need to buy gear just because they see other people geared up at their level.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Level up a bard to 55 and then make an average of 3k an hour farming traks teeth. Boom money

[LethalLogic]

It is so tiresome to read posts that sound like they came straight out of the Obama Administration's talking points. Guess what genius, there isn't a finite amount of wealth. You too can go scrounge up some items and sell them at the same prices you complain about everyone else selling them at. It seems there is a contingent of entitled people on this server that think just because they made a pixel elf that they somehow get to start at the same level (financially) as the people who have been playing on this server for years.

Pay your dues pixel elf.

[rollin5k]

I think its just that a lot of the population wants to start the movie over because they missed the beginning.

[LethalLogic]

I think its just that a lot of the population wants to start the movie over because they missed the beginning.

Probably so..and I can understand that to a degree.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, but all of this is a sunk cost when they realize they're doing about 20 dps with an epic and 41 haste. lols.

Well stated. There IS a reason 12 people play a Paladin on here. :D:D

[Gaffin 3.0]

platlord rustling jimmies

[Sarajo]

It seems there is a contingent of entitled people on this server that think just because they made a pixel elf that they somehow get to start at the same level (financially) as the people who have been playing on this server for years.

Pay your dues pixel elf.

Rich people telling middle-class to blame poor people... we didn't have that back in classic because the news networks were full of reporters, not trolls trying to sell more books.

Here's where this attitude, in which you're entitled to certain privileges because you've been here longer than someone else, becomes a problem: People come here for the Classic EQ experience. That means we are probably sick of the live EQ experience (expansion #26 or whatever), and sick of World of WarQuest, and Star Wars the Other MMO, and everything else in the MMO-verse that's been ruined. We come here to group and conquer content and form social complex social networks by playing a game together, which leads to trust and relationships. Or maybe we come here because it's the ultimate 90s pixel fashion show; we want to strut around with a Soulfire and have every low-level fresh pixel Elf see it and go "ooooooo!"

All of the appeal of this place involves socializing. All this version of the game stands for is competition (for resources/mobs/loot) that leads to cooperation. So when a fresh pixel Elf shows up and wants to experience classic EQ again, with the Crushbone wall groups and the Splitpaw corpse runs and the trying to get a group to go with you all the way to the bottom of Old Seb for something that probably won't even drop, but all they see is:

1) Fungi soloers instead of groups
2) Powerlevelling prostitution instead of groups
3) High levels killing all of a dungeon to hand off to their low-level alt, so that the low level alt can level through turn-ins

it doesn't exactly feel any different from (insert MMO that everyone hates here), ya dig? Why would you want to do that to classic EQ? Because you play the game just to skip as much of the game as possible?

When everyone who's been here for a long time insists on soloing, it just forces the new fresh-off-the-elevator pixel elf to solo, too.

[skipdog]

Rich people telling middle-class to blame poor people... we didn't have that back in classic because the news networks were full of reporters, not trolls trying to sell more books.

Here's where this attitude, in which you're entitled to certain privileges because you've been here longer than someone else, becomes a problem: People come here for the Classic EQ experience. That means we are probably sick of the live EQ experience (expansion #26 or whatever), and sick of World of WarQuest, and Star Wars the Other MMO, and everything else in the MMO-verse that's been ruined. We come here to group and conquer content and form social complex social networks by playing a game together, which leads to trust and relationships. Or maybe we come here because it's the ultimate 90s pixel fashion show; we want to strut around with a Soulfire and have every low-level fresh pixel Elf see it and go "ooooooo!"

All of the appeal of this place involves socializing. All this version of the game stands for is competition (for resources/mobs/loot) that leads to cooperation. So when a fresh pixel Elf shows up and wants to experience classic EQ again, with the Crushbone wall groups and the Splitpaw corpse runs and the trying to get a group to go with you all the way to the bottom of Old Seb for something that probably won't even drop, but all they see is:

1) Fungi soloers instead of groups
2) Powerlevelling prostitution instead of groups
3) High levels killing all of a dungeon to hand off to their low-level alt, so that the low level alt can level through turn-ins

it doesn't exactly feel any different from (insert MMO that everyone hates here), ya dig? Why would you want to do that to classic EQ? Because you play the game just to skip as much of the game as possible?

When everyone who's been here for a long time insists on soloing, it just forces the new fresh-off-the-elevator pixel elf to solo, too.

Nobody is going to buy your BS of 'all the people who have been here for years only solo so new players are forced to solo also'. You can get groups easily at all levels. You aren't fooling anybody. Also, don 't you realize that your complaints are regarding activities that don't affect you in any way? You are complaining about things others do with their time that has almost zero impact on your own playing experience. Oh noes, there might be some high levels in blackburrow killing gnolls... it's not that big of deal.

Pretending that you can't get classic EQ on this server is just ludicrous and nobody is going to take that assertion seriously.

[Raavak]

Play how you have fun. Don't worry how others play the game. And don't interfere with others fun.

Stop worrying about who has more than you. If you are jelly and want it too, play more. Otherwise stfu. There is no Obama stash here.

[koros]

Rich people telling middle-class to blame poor people... we didn't have that back in classic because the news networks were full of reporters, not trolls trying to sell more books.

Here's where this attitude, in which you're entitled to certain privileges because you've been here longer than someone else, becomes a problem: People come here for the Classic EQ experience. That means we are probably sick of the live EQ experience (expansion #26 or whatever), and sick of World of WarQuest, and Star Wars the Other MMO, and everything else in the MMO-verse that's been ruined. We come here to group and conquer content and form social complex social networks by playing a game together, which leads to trust and relationships. Or maybe we come here because it's the ultimate 90s pixel fashion show; we want to strut around with a Soulfire and have every low-level fresh pixel Elf see it and go "ooooooo!"

All of the appeal of this place involves socializing. All this version of the game stands for is competition (for resources/mobs/loot) that leads to cooperation. So when a fresh pixel Elf shows up and wants to experience classic EQ again, with the Crushbone wall groups and the Splitpaw corpse runs and the trying to get a group to go with you all the way to the bottom of Old Seb for something that probably won't even drop, but all they see is:

1) Fungi soloers instead of groups
2) Powerlevelling prostitution instead of groups
3) High levels killing all of a dungeon to hand off to their low-level alt, so that the low level alt can level through turn-ins

it doesn't exactly feel any different from (insert MMO that everyone hates here), ya dig? Why would you want to do that to classic EQ? Because you play the game just to skip as much of the game as possible?

When everyone who's been here for a long time insists on soloing, it just forces the new fresh-off-the-elevator pixel elf to solo, too.

This is a really fucking idiotic post.

[Erati]

thx 4 Shaere Koros

[Funkutron5000]

The OP is not wrong. Basically the server has been out for a while, so there is a huge difference in price between BiS and 2nd best.

As a Paladin your path is PARTICULARLY easy because no one else plays the class. Join any casual guild and you'll have 41% haste and full valorium and such within a few months tops. Then you'll either get your books outright with the new raid rules or maybe buy them (only like 30k, which isn't that bad if you are 50+ and it is the fucking EPIC). Voila, Fiery Defender. Get lucky on a Hiero cloak in the crypt and boom, you're done - Deepwater is trash anyway with AC not working properly.

Hey, it took me damn near a year of being in a raiding guild to get my 41% haste! And I had to buy it from you! Stupid Spiroc Lord continuously fucking me. But, yeah, in general pally gear is pretty darn cheap.

[Funkutron5000]

Yeah, but all of this is a sunk cost when they realize they're doing about 20 dps with an epic and 41 haste. lols.

Hey, I did 39 dps on Xygoz jerk!

[Erati]

Hey, I did 39 dps on Xygoz jerk!

with Fiery Defender?

this makes me happy.. "Paladin high five"

[Raavak]

Bixie Sword Blade (http://wiki.project1999.com/Bixie_Sword_Blade)?

[Erati]

Bixie Sword Blade (http://wiki.project1999.com/Bixie_Sword_Blade)?

shhhh I have one of these don't let its uberness spread to the public

[baalzy]

shhhh I have one of these don't let its uberness spread to the public

I thought that got nerfed by a hard-floor on delay that won't let you go below 5? Or was that fixed?

[Raavak]

shhhh I have one of these don't let its uberness spread to the publicI know, you showed it to me last night when I was on Doktyr :P

[koros]

2/6 would kickass even with a 5 delay floor.

[baalzy]

2/6 would kickass even with a 5 delay floor.
Assuming level 60 and no misses. The relative damage remains the same as the miss rate is going to be constant over time.

If the floor is 5 then thats 15max damage per hit (weapon dmg *2 +11) every .5 seconds. If you have pretty much any haste you'll hit the floor(fbss will do it). So 120 attacks per minute.

15 * 120 = 1800 DPM = 30 DPS max without double attack.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Faith 24/32 is 59 max dmg per hit. with 100% haste (Sky belt + high level enc haste will hit the 100% cap) gives a delay of 16 so 37 swings per minute (rounded down).

37*59 = 2183 DPM = 36.38 DPS max without double attack. RoF out performs the blade by ~17%


Paladins double attack approximately 56% of the time.

So the 120 attacks with the blade would be 187 attacks.
The 37 swings with the RoF would be 57 attacks.

15 * 187 = 2805 dpm = 46.75 dps

59 * 57 = 3363 dpm = 56.05 dps

All things being equal the RoF would outperform the bixie blade by 17% with max haste still.

In a no spell haste situation (just using 41% sky haste) the bixie blade would perform no differently but the RoF would lose a significant amount of effectiveness.

27 swings = 42 attacks after double attack.

59*42 = 2478 dpm = 41.3 dps

So in a situation where no magical haste is available the bixie will always win.

At approximately 65% total haste the RoF is pretty much equal to the bixie. Any haste beyond that causes the RoF to pull away.

This is assuming the 5 delay floor.

Without the floor the bixies max DPS potential would be
15*312 (200 attack rounds, 312 after double attack) = 4680 DPM = 78 DPS. If the floor exists, it massively nerfs the blades potential.

[koros]

Assuming level 60 and no misses. The relative damage remains the same as the miss rate is going to be constant over time.

If the floor is 5 then thats 15max damage per hit (weapon dmg *2 +11) every .5 seconds. If you have pretty much any haste you'll hit the floor(fbss will do it). So 120 attacks per minute.

15 * 120 = 1800 DPM = 30 DPS max without double attack.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Rod_of_Faith 24/32 is 59 max dmg per hit. with 100% haste (Sky belt + high level enc haste will hit the 100% cap) gives a delay of 16 so 37 swings per minute (rounded down).

37*59 = 2183 DPM = 36.38 DPS max without double attack. RoF out performs the blade by ~17%


Paladins double attack approximately 56% of the time.

So the 120 attacks with the blade would be 187 attacks.
The 37 swings with the RoF would be 57 attacks.

15 * 187 = 2805 dpm = 46.75 dps

59 * 57 = 3363 dpm = 56.05 dps

All things being equal the RoF would outperform the bixie blade by 17% with max haste still.

In a no spell haste situation (just using 41% sky haste) the bixie blade would perform no differently but the RoF would lose a significant amount of effectiveness.

27 swings = 42 attacks after double attack.

59*42 = 2478 dpm = 41.3 dps

So in a situation where no magical haste is available the bixie will always win.

At approximately 65% total haste the RoF is pretty much equal to the bixie. Any haste beyond that causes the RoF to pull away.

This is assuming the 5 delay floor.

Without the floor the bixies max DPS potential would be
15*312 (200 attack rounds, 312 after double attack) = 4680 DPM = 78 DPS. If the floor exists, it massively nerfs the blades potential.

Touche. I did quick mentals calcs on the 2/5 (with haste) blade being a ((2 * 2) + 11)/5 = 3.0 weapon, which would be be amazing, without haste. Normally I don't take haste into account since it affects all weapons equally (except if there is a floord haste cap)

Double attack calcs are irrelevant on calculating differences in weapon performance btw.

[baalzy]

Touche. I did quick mentals calcs on the 2/5 (with haste) blade being a ((2 * 2) + 11)/5 = 3.0 weapon, which would be be amazing, without haste. Normally I don't take haste into account since it affects all weapons equally (except if there is a floord haste cap)

Double attack calcs are irrelevant on calculating differences in weapon performance btw.

Yeah, I noticed that. Threw it in there because I see people say stuff like "low delay = more double attack = more damage bonus being applied" when in reality it's just low delay = more damage bonus being applied.

[Skittlez]

I wasn't looking exactly to get into specifics. Just putting a thread out there to see what people have to say about the issue. First off I'm a paladin. And your right, a good portion of the weapons that are around the price range I put up were acceptable for characters 50+ . It has to be the uniqueness of the server that makes the price differences on items so staggering.

I farmed about 7k on my Paladin before she ever hit level 30 and all I had was bronze armor and a Baton of Faith. It doesn't take months to grind plat, you just have to ask where you should farm it or google it.

[fastboy21]

for the most part, money in EQ is a function how long the player has been playing. if you've been playing here a long time you are likely to have tons of money. if you are new, you are going to be poor.

the big fluxes of players haven't happened in a while...the curve, for now at least, is skewed. there are many more "rich" players with lvl 60 toons on this server than there would be on the live timeline.

you take the good with the bad. p99 is awesome, but as many people have said the timeline is just very off at this point from live.

it will get a bit better when velious comes out (new progression goals, new and returning players will increase), but keep in mind that in the end this is going to be a static server. once velious comes out and the time line patches are slowly implemented the server will not be progressing any more. so, sooner or later, this is going to be a problem that all "classic" eq servers would face. it is one of the criticisms that SOE cited as a reason to never do a classic server.

it will be curious to see how long the server can survive in such a state. personally, i didn't think kunark could last this long...but it has. folks just keep rolling alts and killing the same raid mobs year after year so far. at some point, it can't sustain itself.