Is AC broken on P99?

[Lron]

I hear it is...im wondering how broke it really is to determine what class i should play.

[Clark]

Ac and agi help a lot more than they used to. Not broken.

[Lron]

Ac and agi help a lot more than they used to. Not broken.

Ahh ok thanks for the clarification.

[Clark]

Sure thing np.

[Buriedpast]

Ac and agi help a lot more than they used to. Not broken.

Still broken

[Vellaen]

Some more detailed discussion on how AC is/isn't working on P99 here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118766

[tristantio]

Hi, I posted the report in that thread for the 35 SHD.

I notice ~100AC was a 10 to 15% damage taken reduction (it doesn't change damage avoidance in any way).

This was going from around 650 to 750 and without shield (although shield is the same as any other piece since there is no shield above-cap on p99) on dark and light blue mobs.

[Lron]

Thanks for the report trist...what is the difference in the amount of damage reduction AC does here compared to back on classic live? Any idea?

[Solb]

This is a great question, and it seems to still be up for debate! Loraen/Splorf has put in a ton of time trying to sort it out, and from what it appears, this issue has just been swept under the proverbial carpet. Too bad, because it would be nice to gear your warrior/tanks properly knowing how the gears you choose will affect your gameplay.

[tristantio]

I didn't care enough back then to parse anything, so I don't know.

My tests this time around were to make sure my AC set purchase was not going to waste :)

The test I did (100AC) was for displayed AC, not raw AC, so as a SHD with the 1.5x AC bonus, that would have been around 66 raw item AC = the ~13% reduction in damage taken.

[Solb]

I didn't care enough back then to parse anything, so I don't know.

My tests this time around were to make sure my AC set purchase was not going to waste :)

The test I did (100AC) was for displayed AC, not raw AC, so as a SHD with the 1.5x AC bonus, that would have been around 66 raw item AC = the ~13% reduction in damage taken.

Thanks for the time you put into this.

[fadetree]

Seems like a dev could enlighten us without revealing too many seekrits. It's a legit question.

[Danth]

Hi Fadetree! I certainly remember how much more damage your Ranger took from the same creatures in Karnor relative to my Shadow Knight (Andoric) when we were about the same level, and low enough that the Ranger's lower defense cap couldn't have been much of a factor yet.

I do not believe AC works exactly right on P99 relative to EQ Live, but it isn't totally useless either, at least against critters below the mid/upper 50's. I have my own hypothesis as to what's going on with it, but with no particular motivation and little opportunity to try to test it extensively my own observations remain little more than speculation.

Danth

[Nirgon]

Complete heal rotations are so overpowered it hasn't mattered and probably won't.

[Jimjam]

This is a great question, and it seems to still be up for debate! Loraen/Splorf has put in a ton of time trying to sort it out, and from what it appears, this issue has just been swept under the proverbial carpet. Too bad, because it would be nice to gear your warrior/tanks properly knowing how the gears you choose will affect your gameplay.

Having a incomplete understanding of the exact mechanics of stats during kunark period is classic ;)

IMHO it isn't necessarily AC that is broken, more likely mob offense values don't scale well against player ac as you level up. Just an uninformed hunch though.

[Argh]

This is a great post on AC:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=397733

[Pint]

Working as intended, please move along

[Dweed]

Around lvl 55, me and another monk the same level would duo. I had around 1070AC, he has around 900. He took way more damage than I did. Maybe there is a cutoff or a plateau?

[myriverse]

What's broken is the client. The client lies... right to your face.

[errorlvlacro]

I'm not sure why a dev can't just come and tell us. Maybe it is broken and they don't want to tell us? I don't know. Either way, last thing I read from a dev about the AC was something like, "well this is the purpose of the beta to figure out and work on getting all the mechanics right over time". I think it works, but it's still a work in progress. Still, a lot of people say it's broken. I hear it all the time.

[Erati]

Still, a lot of people say it's broken. I hear it all the time.

AC works better here now in the present than it did in 2009/10. But the consensus is that AC for the most part is still 'broken' compared to what the AC stat was on live.

Why? Who knows....

however one thing that can't be debated is the fact that when Velious hit, EVERY tank on live was stacking AC via their Kunark armor sets and all the raid tanks always always always choose things with higher AC if the gear upgrade choice was AC vs Stats.

Was it that the player base was 'dumb' not realizing that the Kunark armor was actually not all that great and the players just wore it 'because it was from the second expansion'.

Maybe. Who knows....

[Pheer]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315559&postcount=86

[Erati]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315559&postcount=86

ty for linking this I was also going to link it in my post :)

[errorlvlacro]

AC works better here now in the present than it did in 2009/10. But the consensus is that AC for the most part is still 'broken' compared to what the AC stat was on live.

Why? Who knows....

however one thing that can't be debated is the fact that when Velious hit, EVERY tank on live was stacking AC via their Kunark armor sets and all the raid tanks always always always choose things with higher AC if the gear upgrade choice was AC vs Stats.

Was it that the player base was 'dumb' not realizing that the Kunark armor was actually not all that great and the players just wore it 'because it was from the second expansion'.

Maybe. Who knows....

Thanks for your insight! I do sometimes think it's also a bit of people not fully understanding the mechanic itself. I don't think the devs would let such an issue go on unchecked if it was true and they probably find it insulting that people even say it. It would still be nice to get some official explanation on whether it's working as it did before or if it's still being tweaked. I don't think that's much to ask.

[errorlvlacro]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1315559&postcount=86

Awesome! Though I still think it needs more data to the pool especially because of RNG. IMO it kinda only seems plausible for a GM/Dev to do the test since they can create a completely controlled environment with set factors and conditions to the T. Well, makes the most sense and most practical way anyways. clearly yes, if it's working we should be able to notice the differences and effects. So yeah, Idk.

[heartbrand]

cant stress enough how important it is to have this fixed b4 velious

[radditsu]

Shut up lron. Back to your cage.

[Skydash]

I have some questions about the data reported, and the actual calculations that are used:

1. The logs I've seen posted in other threads seem like a very small sample size. Its nice to have the exact percentages per mob... but doesn't it seem like this Should have a Swing? How much of a swing? Why hasn't someone logged data for the same fight with the same monster 10 times and averaged them?

2. Where does the Random Number Generator fit into the calculation? Does it determine only hit/miss? After hit, Random number from minimum damage to maximum damage? I just don't see the random numbers at all when I fight at level 40.. I see static numbers that only vary a couple points from specific points.

3. I like having mystery and myths, its the only thing that can make someone wear different equipment from the next person. If the calculation was known, would it cause everyone to wear the same Best in slot equipment? Already happens to monks because they have so few options.

Just my unimportant concerns. I'm having fun without needing to min/max.

[radditsu]

Yall posting in a lron thread

[Tasslehofp99]

I notice a pretty substantial difference in damage taken when going from 900 to 1000 AC as a monk.

I wouldn't say "AC is broken" technically, it makes a difference.

[webrunner5]

I can't remember his name on the forums. :confused: But he said, no exact quote, as long as Complete Heal heals anyone on here in one cast AC REALLY doesn't make that much difference. HP's are as important. I agree completely.

Most the top Warrior's have now in Kunark is around 5k to 5,400 HP. In Velious not quite sure but even if 7k HP's Complete Heal does 7,500. So still under CH or damn close.

I am not saying AC doesn't matter at all, it is just not as important as some people think on here. Having EVERY item in every slot max AC may not really be the best way to go is what I am saying. Doesn't mean you are not going to use your Cobalt gear lol.

[fadetree]

Hi Fadetree! I certainly remember how much more damage your Ranger took from the same creatures in Karnor relative to my Shadow Knight (Andoric) when we were about the same level, and low enough that the Ranger's lower defense cap couldn't have been much of a factor yet.

I do not believe AC works exactly right on P99 relative to EQ Live, but it isn't totally useless either, at least against critters below the mid/upper 50's. I have my own hypothesis as to what's going on with it, but with no particular motivation and little opportunity to try to test it extensively my own observations remain little more than speculation.

Danth

Hi Ando :) give that awesome shammy of yours a hug for me. Hope to run into you guys again sometime.

[Clark]

Working as intended, please move along

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I can't remember his name on the forums. :confused: But he said, no exact quote, as long as Complete Heal heals anyone on here in one cast AC REALLY doesn't make that much difference. HP's are as important. I agree completely.

Most the top Warrior's have now in Kunark is around 5k to 5,400 HP. In Velious not quite sure but even if 7k HP's Complete Heal does 7,500. So still under CH or damn close.

I am not saying AC doesn't matter at all, it is just not as important as some people think on here. Having EVERY item in every slot max AC may not really be the best way to go is what I am saying. Doesn't mean you are not going to use your Cobalt gear lol.

CH is 10k until PoP when it was reduced to 7500. Used to crit for 32k during luclin with AAs, too, lols.

[webrunner5]

CH is 10k until PoP when it was reduced to 7500. Used to crit for 32k during luclin with AAs, too, lols.

I stand corrected. It was late and too many beers cans I guess. :D