What's so great about Iksar?

[Solb]

I am just curious how Iksar have any large advantage once Velious is out? I keep hearing this. "Iksar are going to be beast when velious gets here!" How so? Won't other races have access to all the awesome gear upgrades too?

[Vlak]

Iksar have regen and AC bonus, plus velious armors are usable by them unlike high-end kunark armors. Not to mention: Greenmist.

[Daldaen]

Above states it. But more AC on end-game raidmobs is important, and more AC is something Iksars get that no other class gets. Basically they are no longer handicapped by the "iksars can't wear plate" lore that Kunark had.

Also Necros, Monks and Shamans benefit a solid amount from regen. Which is quite a big difference for iksar/troll regen table vs all other races.

[tristantio]

Also no real faction penalty since all the races con pretty evenly in Velious.

[Mac Dretti]

Ac

[baalzy]

And, if I remember correctly, the Iksar AC bonus is to Avoidance (which is only affected by Agi & Defense skill for other races) so it gives them a benefit even after hitting the worn AC cap.

[Asap]

Iksar are the master race

[Brut]

IksarSK begins to cast a spell.
A single mob bashes IksarSK for 1 point of damage.
IksarSK is stunned!
IksarSK's spell is interrupted.


OgreSK begins to cast a spell.
A flock of mobs bash OgreSK for massive amounts of damage.
OgreSK regains concentration and continues casting.
OgreSK laughs.
OgreSK slashes flock of mobs with a 2h animation that doesn't look like it's 1h piercing.


Also,
EruditeSK begins to cast a spell.
EruditeSK ducks.
EruditeSK's spell is interrupted.
EruditeSK camps and deletes and uninstalls.

[Portasaurus]

Three words: Dried Froglok Leg

[Lamil]

If you have to ask

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Iksars look awesome.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Iksars look awesome.

Except when they are swinging 2hslashing weapons

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Except when they are swinging 2hslashing weapons

Hahaha yeah. That's the most pathetic animation in the game I think. Iksar deaths are the best, so you got that going for you, which is nice. Too bad they can't be rangers though...

[Fazlazen]

IksarSK begins to cast a spell.
A single mob bashes IksarSK for 1 point of damage.
IksarSK is stunned!
IksarSK's spell is interrupted.


OgreSK begins to cast a spell.
A flock of mobs bash OgreSK for massive amounts of damage.
OgreSK regains concentration and continues casting.
OgreSK laughs.
OgreSK slashes flock of mobs with a 2h animation that doesn't look like it's 1h piercing.


Also,
EruditeSK begins to cast a spell.
EruditeSK ducks.
EruditeSK's spell is interrupted.
EruditeSK camps and deletes and uninstalls.

IksarSK begins Botb fight against Bruti-OgreSK.
IksarSK ends up with title "The Grave Lord".
Bruti-OgreSK makes dumb post on boards.
IksarSK laughs.

[Wudan]

IksarSK begins to cast a spell.
A single mob bashes IksarSK for 1 point of damage.
IksarSK is stunned!
IksarSK's spell is interrupted.


OgreSK begins to cast a spell.
A flock of mobs bash OgreSK for massive amounts of damage.
OgreSK regains concentration and continues casting.
OgreSK laughs.
OgreSK slashes flock of mobs with a 2h animation that doesn't look like it's 1h piercing.


Also,
EruditeSK begins to cast a spell.
EruditeSK ducks.
EruditeSK's spell is interrupted.
EruditeSK camps and deletes and uninstalls.

This post is so retaded on so many levels...did you know ogres can get interrupted too? Also,stun immunity does not really matter on sk. U keep your big ugly head while i walk around with regen, ac bonus and greenmist in my hand. Noob

[Byrjun]

This post is so retaded on so many levels...did you know ogres can get interrupted too?

Only by push and spells, not by slam/bash.

[Wudan]

Only by push and spells, not by slam/bash.

My point was he can, not how

[Kellek]

The Iksar I want will wear blue plate! Ok, so it's not a true Iksar, you can still look like one!

[Gaffin 7.0]

id rather have no frontal stun than play a iksar with less hp str etc if im going war or sk. each their own though, i had a iksar war in velious so my opinion is not biased. id much rather have a ogre shaman or war then iksar though.

[Frug]

Although this benefit is short lived (and not exclusive), the newbie levelling zone for the iksars is excellent - easy armor quests, decent money drops, good progression of mobs through level 20, etc. Granted others can come to FOB to get those benefits, but it's not easy.

[Swish]

That regen for necromancers... unrivaled ;)

[Brut]

My point was he can, not how
And my point was by slam/bash. Boom boom.

Played a troll sk on red, trying to get any later game spells off against just a single mob was the goddamned pits. Idunno how you people stomach playing non-ogres, maybe it's just a case of not knowing how much better it can be.

[Scikala]

And my point was by slam/bash. Boom boom.

Played a troll sk on red, trying to get any later game spells off against just a single mob was the goddamned pits. Idunno how you people stomach playing non-ogres, maybe it's just a case of not knowing how much better it can be.

Ogre's and Trolls are just ugly looking. Who wants to stare at that all day?

[Daldaen]

Or perhaps it's a case of not being retarded and timing your casts after swings? To prevent interupts from push and bash.

[arsenalpow]

IksarSK begins Botb fight against Bruti-OgreSK.
IksarSK ends up with title "The Grave Lord".
Bruti-OgreSK makes dumb post on boards.
IksarSK laughs.

I lost to Sentenza mostly because of the gear disadvantage. Not to take anything away from that French asshole, he's a good jouster and we both employed the same strats during the fights but there were so many misses on him. Myu had BIS everything but VP. Sentenza had hoshkar boots, crown of rile (I think) and was wearing slimeblood on his hands. Hosh boots mean you can wear a belt with real stats and I'm sure he had some other VP drops (pulsating gem?) so it was going to be an uphill battle.

[Brut]

Or perhaps it's a case of not being retarded and timing your casts after swings? To prevent interupts from push and bash.

Perfectly capable of doing that, but still there's plenties of convoluted nonsense to avoid something that is not a factor for ogres whatsoever.

People being really hostile about this btw, terms "noob" and "retarded" flung about nonstop. Are Iksar SKs the classic rangers of p99 or something? Little nudge and they immediately get bananas upset?

[Supaskillz]

Frontal stun immunity is awesome and also having a million more sta seems relevant. I actually think it's bs that iksar a kept the Ac bonus when they were able t wear velious plate, but obv Ac bonus and regen is also sweet.

Speaking of how much Ac matters. Can anyone point me to good thread on how Ac works? It is not obvious to me how much difference it makes. Also soft/hard caps for ac?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

That regen for necromancers... unrivaled ;)

ogre > iksar > halfling > dark elf.

Following that order of precedence and you'll usually be set just fine as far as min/max :P

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Frontal stun immunity is awesome and also having a million more sta seems relevant. I actually think it's bs that iksar a kept the Ac bonus when they were able t wear velious plate, but obv Ac bonus and regen is also sweet.

Speaking of how much Ac matters. Can anyone point me to good thread on how Ac works? It is not obvious to me how much difference it makes. Also soft/hard caps for ac?

On P99? There's been a few parses done but no formula posted for whatever reason :P

[Daldaen]

Perfectly capable of doing that, but still there's plenties of convoluted nonsense to avoid something that is not a factor for ogres whatsoever.

People being really hostile about this btw, terms "noob" and "retarded" flung about nonstop. Are Iksar SKs the classic rangers of p99 or something? Little nudge and they immediately get bananas upset?

Cause people tend to tell anyone who rolls a warrior, SK or Shaman that ogre is the only choice and everyone else is dumb.

When infact, other races can and do play to the same level of efficiency and power, and in certain cases - a la iksars - exceed. Ogre is just a faceroll race. Don't need to think, just cast. Other races sure you've got to wait 0.5 seconds for a round to occur then cast your spell... But instead you can get regen and/or AC or you don't need to shrink ever, etc.

[JPMorgan]

Ogre is just a faceroll race.

Min/Max at every possible opportunity kills game immersion as well.

[Supaskillz]

Cause people tend to tell anyone who rolls a warrior, SK or Shaman that ogre is the only choice and everyone else is dumb.

When infact, other races can and do play to the same level of efficiency and power, and in certain cases - a la iksars - exceed. Ogre is just a faceroll race. Don't need to think, just cast. Other races sure you've got to wait 0.5 seconds for a round to occur then cast your spell... But instead you can get regen and/or AC or you don't need to shrink ever, etc.

I don't play a shaman so I'm not totally familiar with spell cast times, but against tough mind I know you basically are constantly casting spells. Are torpor and epic click quick enough that you can do this all with careful timing? The ogre ability seems much more important for shamans

[pasi]

Cause people tend to tell anyone who rolls a warrior, SK or Shaman that ogre is the only choice and everyone else is dumb.

When infact, other races can and do play to the same level of efficiency and power, and in certain cases - a la iksars - exceed. Ogre is just a faceroll race. Don't need to think, just cast. Other races sure you've got to wait 0.5 seconds for a round to occur then cast your spell... But instead you can get regen and/or AC or you don't need to shrink ever, etc.

I'm one of these people.

Ogres are simply better from a min/max standpoint at level 60. The advantages are not gamebreaking, but they are there.

The idea of timing spells around bashes is pretty naive. As an SK, you are timing your spells around your melee, not the NPCs special abilities timer. Furthermore, if you're timing for bash, you're making the assumption that bash is always going to hit. If you're stunned, you're stunned - why not attempt the cast anyway in case bash misses like it does often? It gets a bit more complicated as well when you sprinkle more than 1 monster into the picture. With an ogre, you get to ignore the above.

[Synthlol]

I'm one of these people.

Ogres are simply better from a min/max standpoint at level 60. The advantages are not gamebreaking, but they are there.

The idea of timing spells around bashes is pretty naive. As an SK, you are timing your spells around your melee, not the NPCs special abilities timer. Furthermore, if you're timing for bash, you're making the assumption that bash is always going to hit. If you're stunned, you're stunned - why not attempt the cast anyway in case bash misses like it does often? It gets a bit more complicated as well when you sprinkle more than 1 monster into the picture. With an ogre, you get to ignore the above.

This guy gets it, and the same logic applies for shaman too. Timing spellcasts around the mob(s) beating on you is a handicap because it implies waiting, and having to wait to cast is exactly what makes getting stunned dangerous. You can say you don't care, but you can't say it isn't true.

I've seen people say that stun immunity is overrated because an ogre still has to put his butt into a corner to prevent interrupts. This is true, but it isn't evidence for the argument that ogre stun immunity is overrated. Non-ogres also want to put their butts in a corner to prevent push interrupts, and when they do this, they can still get bashed. Ogres can't.

[Fazlazen]

I lost to Sentenza mostly because of the gear disadvantage. Not to take anything away from that French asshole, he's a good jouster and we both employed the same strats during the fights but there were so many misses on him. Myu had BIS everything but VP. Sentenza had hoshkar boots, crown of rile (I think) and was wearing slimeblood on his hands. Hosh boots mean you can wear a belt with real stats and I'm sure he had some other VP drops (pulsating gem?) so it was going to be an uphill battle.

dude lost both rounds by over 50% hp, had more total hp and more strengh than me, yet says he lost due to gear disadvantage. Also, we didn't employ the same strat, it is nice that you think we did tho.

[lecompte]

Iksar warrior is going to take less damage and hold about the same agro in vel despite being stunned because dex is easily maxed with gear on an ikky. Yes, you'll be stunned. It is frustrating, doesn't matter so long as you can hold agro.

[Supaskillz]

Warriors don't cast spells. I don't think the ogre argument holds up for them. High end gear + buffs I'm sure iksar a can hit sta cap too

[Ajkuhuun]

The tails.

[Derubael]

The tails.

I agree with everything you just said.

In all seriousness, between iksar and ogre (specifically for SK and Shaman) there really isn't much difference. The extra AC over the cap makes a difference in Velious, but stun immunity is also really nice. Basically, take less damage, and do a little less damage (when getting hit) as an iksar SK or Shaman.

For necros, warriors, and monks, there is no contest. Iksar's win over every other race.

Also, who wants to be fat? Even when you're shrunk you look like a ball of lard.

[pasi]

Shaman and SK are no contest in Ogre versus non-ogre. Innoruuk worshipping Troll Shaman might have a case. The rest, not so much.

Warrior race doesn't matter much in Velious. Warriors will reach the AC hardcap and stamina cap very easily. You might be able to squeeze a bit more resists/HP out of an ogre, but nothing like the difference between ogre and non-ogre in Kunark. The extra aggro generation from stun immunity is miniscule. The main difference is really that Iksars do not have access to Kunark clicks (Incarnadine BP being the major convenience one). However, Iksars do have forage which is pretty underrated.

[holsteinrx7]

ogres circulate lies to keep up their classic superior feeling.

one thing that brutillus fails to mention is that DEX governs your ability to cast thru hits. a hit or bash or kick can cancel anyone's spells, esp if youre an ogre with the lowest dex in game.

getting stuned doesnt happen but once every 5 minutes for a few seconds. this does not compare to regen and ac bonus, plus the normal size vs being fat. the only time i see ogre stun resist being cool is on stun heavy, raid like mobs. and the stun resist doesnt work on mobs higher than lvl 51.

combine this with greenmist, and iksar become the new dominant sk. i could be saying this because im rolling one just before vel, but this is how i remember the feedback coming in on the live servers too. iksar go from offtanks to main tanks pretty quick.

its okay, ogres are still second or third best. <3 :p:D

i did the math and ogres do about 12-16% more dmg than iksars out of the box. obviously this scales well when youre hitting for 300 doubled. the sta is about 200hp late game, too. but ogres do have the lowest agi and dex out there, which means youll be hitting that agi floor, and struggling with getting procs to work nearly as well as an iksar. i noticed iksar proc at least 20% more than my troll. it was extremely noticable.



ps. iksar>de>trolls have better lore than ogre sks. gg.



IksarSK begins to cast a spell.
A single mob bashes IksarSK for 1 point of damage.
IksarSK is stunned!
IksarSK's spell is interrupted.


OgreSK begins to cast a spell.
A flock of mobs bash OgreSK for massive amounts of damage.
OgreSK regains concentration and continues casting.
OgreSK laughs.
OgreSK slashes flock of mobs with a 2h animation that doesn't look like it's 1h piercing.


Also,
EruditeSK begins to cast a spell.
EruditeSK ducks.
EruditeSK's spell is interrupted.
EruditeSK camps and deletes and uninstalls.

[holsteinrx7]

glad dubrael is clearing up this matter, but hasnt responded to my petition about glitched missing back full of gear. made my day.

actually i think its cool to read such well versed opinions. but, dont worry, i got this one covered, since i got plenty of time to think about it =P.


I agree with everything you just said.

In all seriousness, between iksar and ogre (specifically for SK and Shaman) there really isn't much difference. The extra AC over the cap makes a difference in Velious, but stun immunity is also really nice. Basically, take less damage, and do a little less damage (when getting hit) as an iksar SK or Shaman.

For necros, warriors, and monks, there is no contest. Iksar's win over every other race.

Also, who wants to be fat? Even when you're shrunk you look like a ball of lard.

[Daldaen]

This guy gets it, and the same logic applies for shaman too. Timing spellcasts around the mob(s) beating on you is a handicap because it implies waiting, and having to wait to cast is exactly what makes getting stunned dangerous. You can say you don't care, but you can't say it isn't true.

I've seen people say that stun immunity is overrated because an ogre still has to put his butt into a corner to prevent interrupts. This is true, but it isn't evidence for the argument that ogre stun immunity is overrated. Non-ogres also want to put their butts in a corner to prevent push interrupts, and when they do this, they can still get bashed. Ogres can't.
Find me a single mob that an ogre shaman can solo that an iksar shaman of the same gear quality / clicky usage cannot.

I'm gonna go with there aren't any.

[holsteinrx7]

iksar shammy no jbb gg atm

[Daldaen]

Canni 4 and Torpor make JBB very meh.

[holsteinrx7]

when i see shaman quadding soloing mobs i cant 1v1 as a sk, i see a jbb being used.

[Brut]

Rly need some EverMath-wiz to tend to this whole AC talk, since I'm not sure if the difference does anything whatsoever. Kunark-era ikkys got their plate handicap so they have no advantage going on yet, and come Velious there's still gonna be a softcap for it, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna hit the cap regardless of your race choice.

Methinks all the hubbub rly balances out between races the later game you get. Regen only really stays relevant for shm/necro, for melees it stops being of value past 40s, unless you're hellbent on ineffectively soloing your route to 60. Ultimately ogres just have a suberb racial trait that no other race has.

Also, who wants to squat every time they sit? Looks as if you're constipated.

[Gaffin 7.0]

I lost to Sentenza mostly because of the gear disadvantage. Not to take anything away from that French asshole, he's a good jouster and we both employed the same strats during the fights but there were so many misses on him. Myu had BIS everything but VP. Sentenza had hoshkar boots, crown of rile (I think) and was wearing slimeblood on his hands. Hosh boots mean you can wear a belt with real stats and I'm sure he had some other VP drops (pulsating gem?) so it was going to be an uphill battle.

You can give a human monk and iksar monk same gear hp and regen with both same pvp skill and the iksar would come out top, just how it is for regen and pvp

[Tulnavara]

All this talk about whether an ogre or iksar shaman is better is meaningless. Troll is the master race, you're fighting for 2nd place.

[Asap]

Best part of this thread is Sent calling out Chest, needs more quoting imo

[holsteinrx7]

Rly need some EverMath-wiz to tend to this whole AC talk, since I'm not sure if the difference does anything whatsoever. Kunark-era ikkys got their plate handicap so they have no advantage going on yet, and come Velious there's still gonna be a softcap for it, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna hit the cap regardless of your race choice.



let me clarify. the AC from the iksar racial i have heard is avoidance AC, but moreso i have heard it counts as shield ac. shield ac is not goverened by any softcap, and therefore is = 48 worn ac under softcap, assuming that the iksar ac bonus doesnt scale from level 1. if it does scale, it could easily be 100 or more worn ac.

when it comes to casting, high dex> stun immunity (not to mention more procs, i know u put 15 points into dex brutt), and higher int = more spells casted.

where ogres can levy an argument from is that they do 15% more dmg than iksar, making them a little more like warriors and a little less like guardians from eqii. and slam? that and 200 more hp scaled at high levels.

but... greenmist...greenmist...greenmist...ac bonus...dex/agi/int...lore.

i also remember people in live saying they never would have believed that iksar get to surpass any other race at tanking in velious. that greenmist was op with a shield, and that the people who rolled ogres just as vel was releasing qqed as theyre race was huge and didnt tank as well.

i do think that they didnt want the iksar sk to do as much dmg as a ogre and made sure by giving it the minimal str necessary. less than human but more than de, which only has 70- not enough. if a ogre hits for 300 with a double attack, id say an iksar would be hitting for the 255 range. its a big margin, but not noticable as much in a group. also, iksar are hella cheap to gear up. instead of needing best of classic (incarnadine, etc), then can just get their dreadscale, sebilite scale, and kylong armor and be chilling on all their gear that is cheaper than any of the BE or incarnadine..

[Azure]

Dark elf is the mistress race.

[Taffan]

Tail motherfucken rake.

[holsteinrx7]

hmmm hard choice

[TyranyT]

This post is so retaded on so many levels...did you know ogres can get interrupted too? Also,stun immunity does not really matter on sk. U keep your big ugly head while i walk around with regen, ac bonus and greenmist in my hand. Noob

Watch your tone taking to brut like that. Dude is a fucking BEAST.

I hope brut curbstomps your stupid looking iksar helmet(with your head in it)

[pasi]

Rly need some EverMath-wiz to tend to this whole AC talk, since I'm not sure if the difference does anything whatsoever. Kunark-era ikkys got their plate handicap so they have no advantage going on yet, and come Velious there's still gonna be a softcap for it, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna hit the cap regardless of your race choice.


Have about 400 days logged as an iksar SK on live, was a fairly big contributor to shadowknight.org and TSW, and also parsed monk/sk/warrior frequently.

Anyhow, the general consensus on the iksar racial AC up until about 2008 or so was that it was only displayed AC. By that, I mean the racial provided literally no benefit other than your character's displayed AC on the character sheet being higher. It was actually Rashere (one of the more active developers at the time) who mentioned the racial behaving this way.

There was a lone parse around 2008 when the level cap was 85 that did manage to show the iksar AC bonus was in fact discernible. However, the catch was that it was a comparison between 2 level 51 characters. The effect of the racial at max level on well-geared characters was never shown. The racial was definitely not anything real-AC (PoP+ shield AC) or an extension on the AC cap as these are very observable in a parse.

Keep in mind the time frame here, on P99.

AC is hardcapped right now and until late Velious. A softcap is eventually added for melee classes only, but the returns on this softcap are almost nothing until the pre-PoP patch that made post-cap AC have a decent return.

Now whether or not the AC code here mimics live, I have no idea.

With that said, iksars are sweet looking. Having to give 0 fucks about faction is a blessing. Greenmist isn't all that great, but forage is amazing.

[Frug]

Now whether or not the AC code here mimics live, I have no idea.

And this is the crux of the matter. People go on and on about how things were in Classic, and we really have no idea if that's our reality here or not.

I loves me my regen though; that at least is real and quantifiable.

[baalzy]

Just to point some things out about the starting stats:
Iksar SK Stats 80str 75sta 90agi 85dex 80wis 85int 60cha
Ogre SK Stats 140str 127sta 70agi 70dex 67wis 70int 42cha

20 points to distribute.
Iksar puts all 20 into sta now has 95sta
Ogre puts 5 into Agi, 15 into Dex for 75agi and 85dex

We all agree that wis/cha/int start values don't matter.

Ogre now has a 60str, 32 sta advantage. 15 agility disadvantage and tied Dex.

Now Warrior (just going to do Str, Sta, Dex and Agi):
Iksar Stats 80str 80Sta 95agi 85dex
Ogre Stats 140str 132sta 75agi 70dex

25 points to distribute.
Iksar puts 25 points into sta giving them 105
Ogre puts 25 points into dex giving them 95

Ogre has 60str, 27sta, 10 dex advantage. 20 agi disadvantage

Or the Ogre puts 15 into dex and 10 into agi to have equal dex and only a 10 point agi disadvantage.


TL;DR Due to bonus points, ogres don't have to worry about dex disadvantages. Their huge starting str/sta make up for it. Agility they clearly lose on, but then how effective is agility for tanking?

[Adolphus]

Ogre's are probably better for raids as MT due to having more HP and stun immunity. (front)

Iksar's are probably better for typical groups due to the regen.

Either way, it's a close call and probably not even noticeable. People should remember that for as much as we like to talk about min/max here, EQ is a game where mediocre differences in stats have little affect on gameplay. Stats are always overrated here. The big differences are spells and abilities.

Regarding AC - Iksar's might have an argument if this were live. But it's not and AC has never worked correctly on p1999. It's broken and nerfed relative to where it should be. It's a known issue, but we can only assume that the developers here simply don't know what to do, because the formula for the AC mechanic was never made public by Sony.

[Ganjar]

TAIL=FAIL

if it hasnt been said 1 million times already!

[arsenalpow]

This is how you do SK like a pimp. No tails or fat necessary.

http://i.imgur.com/b8UAYtG.jpg

[Arteker]

yet ogre racial stun immunity should not work agaisnt giants dragons . here still works

[holsteinrx7]

Just to point some things out about the starting stats:
Iksar SK Stats 80str 75sta 90agi 85dex 80wis 85int 60cha
Ogre SK Stats 140str 127sta 70agi 70dex 67wis 70int 42cha

20 points to distribute.
Iksar puts all 20 into sta now has 95sta
Ogre puts 5 into Agi, 15 into Dex for 75agi and 85dex

We all agree that wis/cha/int start values don't matter.

Ogre now has a 60str, 32 sta advantage. 15 agility disadvantage and tied Dex.

Now Warrior (just going to do Str, Sta, Dex and Agi):
Iksar Stats 80str 80Sta 95agi 85dex
Ogre Stats 140str 132sta 75agi 70dex

25 points to distribute.
Iksar puts 25 points into sta giving them 105
Ogre puts 25 points into dex giving them 95

Ogre has 60str, 27sta, 10 dex advantage. 20 agi disadvantage

Or the Ogre puts 15 into dex and 10 into agi to have equal dex and only a 10 point agi disadvantage.


TL;DR Due to bonus points, ogres don't have to worry about dex disadvantages. Their huge starting str/sta make up for it. Agility they clearly lose on, but then how effective is agility for tanking?


i believe the AC differential is > the sta differential between ogres and iksar.

the dex and agi on the ogre is piss poor, meaning youll be getting hit more than any other sk, and youll proc less than any other sk. youll also get interupted the most having lowest dex. but hey, ur not getting stunned, i guess?

the str is a bitch for the iksar, and i think is what makes you have to decide between them. personally i will trade str for regen any day of the week. free fungi at 50? yes pls.

the stun immunity would be nice, but its not a game changer on a tank. maybe on a shaman. sks dont MT raids.

the ogre will do 15%ish more dmg than the iksar out of the box, but that isnt noticable until mid 40's and by the ogres not fitting in any dungeon period will be more of a pain in the ass than 15% more dmg from a class that does the least amount of dps in game.

its prefence. but i will say that iksar go from being one of the underdogs to a top dog in velious. the ac bonus, greenmist, and having a regular size/regen, and higher proc rates/cast through basic attack rates/and agi are awesome.

if a iksar sk put 20 points into STA then they are tarded. points should go a few into str and the rest dumped into dex. im personally going 4 agi and 16 dex, or 4 str, 3 agi, 13 dex, as i am using a lot of -agi gear such as rod of mourning and fungi.

do not chase a ogre with ur initial 20 points, you will lose as they have the most stat points avilable early game. you have to bolster the iksar's stregnths and play on those. do you want to be a agile, proccing, cast through basic attacks, sword and board tank with a ac bonus and regen, and a good amount of mana?

or do you want to be a giantic brick wall with 200 more hp and a stun immunity, but get interupted and hit the most, and proc the least? its up to you.

i rerolled from troll to iksar. and i believe troll is better than ogre stat wise, except the -20sv fire.

also i believe that ogres MAY end up aggroing more from being awkward sized. i dont think normal or small characters draw aggro as easily...but does this mean that point blank aoe procs like earthshaker have a larger effective radius? dunno.

at the time of velious release they knew tht the only good sk was a ogre/troll. they wanted to make something that had the lore and the reward for playing a normal sized sk. the DE doesnt have the str, and is classic gear dependent/takes a big hit when vel comes out, and the human eurodite suck. they made a viable alternative with their own gear set, their own epic, lore, everything to compete with the ogre and troll. in this way the iksar became the new sk relative to the ogre and troll, which almost appear to be seperate classes. rarely will the original compete with the next generation.

in this case i would compare them to fuel injected and carbeurator. usually when things superceed something, theyre improved apon. notice that all the weaknesses of the ogre are exactly inverted into the iksar. with full incarnadine gear and many agi/dex items, my troll was only hitting 90 agi and 85 dex after rod of mourning and fungi. o wait, thats what iksar START AT. no incarnadine required!!!!

now if the iksar dumps 15 points into dex and 5 into agi from the start, and the gears ontop of that, youre looking at a HUGEEEEE difference between dex and agi. we're talking 20-40 points difference per stat. and the two things that make me happiest as a sk isnt casting a low lvl spell through an attack round. what makes me the happiest is when the enemy flat out misses me or i when i proc a 6 second 90dd stun. that proc coming up every fight is more important than 15% of my damage, especially in a group instance with rogues and monks. it increases my tanking mitigation much more than another 60 sta. esp since sta hits a cap at 120 or so.

gotta evolve past classic STR/STA war mentality. its a hybrid. use all of ur stats except wis and cha. remember that the iksar is 'balanced' now with all of its penalties. those penalties, along with other hybrid penalties go away in vel. that means the iksar benefits the MOST from the expansion..not to mention greenmist epic/armor, again.

[Frug]

holsteinrx7, your post was far too well reasoned and lacked the requisite flames, screeds containing "retard" and "newb", or unsubstantiated anecdotal information; I'm afraid we're going to have to ban you from the forums.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Iksar still looks the best. TAIL RAPE!!!!

dat 2hs doe

[rgostic]

youll also get interupted the most having lowest dex.



Dexterity is the stat which governs the skill-up rate for the Channeling skill.

The channeling skill is what prevents interrupts.

Additional dexterity does not.

[webrunner5]

Ogre's and Trolls are just ugly looking. Who wants to stare at that all day?

Actually the women are pretty hot in a sick perverted way. :eek::eek:

[feste]

This is how you do SK like a pimp. No tails or fat necessary.

http://i.imgur.com/b8UAYtG.jpg

Truth

[deadlycupcakez]

what does greenmist look like in classic?

and honestly im a roleplayer and i play for the lore and the story behind my character. I couldnt change the fact that im scaley and have lower health and strength than others or that i naturally regen faster.

I enjoy playing characters that have flaws or are imperfect.

[eskimospy]

what does greenmist look like in classic?

katana

[Smalls]

*Bane voice*: You think the HP regen is your ally.

[baalzy]

*snipped*

Agility should be of no benefit for having attacks miss you, it does help with mitigation some but requires large amounts. How agility behaves on p99 is, of course, unknown.
(source: http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-379.html).

If you're going with 16 starting points into dex then you're 16 points ahead of the ogre (but now 43 points behind on sta) which is actually pretty marginal, it takes more 100 dex to go from 2 procs a minute to 4 procs a minute .. When talking about PvE you get +60 from Shaman buff, another +100 if getting avatar'd and you're capped without gearing or starting points. Without avatar you're looking at 85+60 = 145. Regardless of if you're in Velious or Kunark era you're getting 9+ from your BP. 154dex now. RBB you're looking at +10. 164 dex. Another +5 easy on your arms (planes armor). 169. +7 with gauntlets of fiery might on your hands 176. Looking at +9 or more on your back (CoF, SBC, Cloak of Shadows) for 185ish and make up the last +15 with your sky shoulders. This is with itemization that isn't compromising just to raise your dex letting you use you gear for Hp/Mana/Resists on all your other slots while maintaining a 43 base sta advantage and 60 base str advantage. Throw in that you'll be wearing a NoS (or Velious dragon equivilant) on your neck and you can switch out the fiery might gaunts for anything you prefer. This is assuming a well-equipped (but not uber/BIS) shadowknight.

If you're PvP'ing where you can assume there are no shaman buffs and you're relying on procs to save the day for you then you're doing it wrong, if you're thinking that 16 dex advantage is going to make a noticable difference in interruption rate then I'll ask for some actual proof. Meanwhile, this thread says Dex does nothing for interrupt rates: http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1727. Iksar Regen in PvP is worthy of note however.

TL;DR The AC bonus is the only real advantage an iksar has in PVE and thats extremely dubious on P99, everything else is 1999 noob voodoo mechanics.

[holsteinrx7]

well i went ogre anyways xD

[radditsu]

Dark elf? Dark elf. Dark elf is def the best.

[Colgate]

p sure AC doesn't mean jack shit on this server

[radditsu]

Yes, if by interesting you mean "enslaved by giant snakes" "enslaved by dragons" "one dragon and his froglok (LOL) army stole our city and we now live in a third rate city that was blown to hell. You have another city underwater, another city taken over by a necromancer who lived the one time your lives weren't shit. You have vampires and spiders infesting kaesora. You have ghost of cazic failures infesting city of mist. An ancient outpost is taken over by Evil races, another by good races, goblin concerns, sarnak concerns, and you dont even have a proper alchemy vendor. Master race indeed.

[Wudan]

also, dat greenmist. iksar only.
if they ever even add it. timeline wise it didnt come out until right before luclin i believe.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Greenmist.




Sorry, just to clarify, in project1999 the iksar only version will be available or will no version be available?
------>IKSAR ONLY VERSION<------

[Wudan]

Master race indeed.

Only master race can deal with all this! Other races would break down and cry in matter of minutes because you are all weak ugly looking softies who cant deal with problems.

[Stonecrush]

SK's? Greenmist anyone? One of the best 1hs tanking weapons for added aggro?

Thing procs a dot, ac and attack debuff. As far as I could tell from Wiki it is IKSAR only.

So screw the spells with a proc like that you're not gonna need to cast. The cleric behind you will take care of the smaller holes being punched into your chest because your AC is higher.

The QQing over the AC bonus is so old it can friggen vote. Sorry but the Iksars kept their bonuses because they have NO ONE to rely on except their own kind without a TON of factioning. They are the true race of sit on it a whirl. I've come to take your guards, money and pillage your lands!

[radditsu]

I was the first dark elf on povar with greenmist... ain't that great.

[xexbis0]

Yes, if by interesting you mean "enslaved by giant snakes" "enslaved by dragons" "one dragon and his froglok (LOL) army stole our city and we now live in a third rate city that was blown to hell. You have another city underwater, another city taken over by a necromancer who lived the one time your lives weren't shit. You have vampires and spiders infesting kaesora. You have ghost of cazic failures infesting city of mist. An ancient outpost is taken over by Evil races, another by good races, goblin concerns, sarnak concerns, and you dont even have a proper alchemy vendor. Master race indeed.


So what you are saying is everyone and their mom tried to kill the master race but they endured? Nice.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

So what you are saying is everyone and their mom tried to kill the master race but they endured? Nice.
cockroaches endure

[radditsu]

So what you are saying is everyone and their mom tried to kill the master race but they endured? Nice.

Nah I am saying the world shits on you pansies. At least the kael giants can fight significantly more/stronger dragons to a standstill. The thurg dwarves built a nice little society with much more pressure than anything the iksar have faced.

The iksar had to pray to daddy cazic to fix the ol God Snake race thing.

[xexbis0]

Nah I am saying the world shits on you pansies. At least the kael giants can fight significantly more/stronger dragons to a standstill. The thurg dwarves built a nice little society with much more pressure than anything the iksar have faced.

The iksar had to pray to daddy cazic to fix the ol God Snake race thing.

I don't think you are going to win the Iksar being crushed argument vs. the lore of the other playable races.

[radditsu]

I don't think you are going to win the Iksar being crushed argument vs. the lore of the other playable races.

Humans fuck
Gnomes tinker
Elves chill in the woods
Ogres had to be struck down by an elemental god to be defeated.
Trolls also lose to frogs
Dark elves built glowing awesome caves
Erudites blew cats up to the moon.
Barbs chill in the chill. Wear makeup
Halflings eat pie. Drink beer.

All accept trolls and ogres do just fine for themselves. Lucky for dark elves they are great cannon fodder.

[radditsu]

Oh and drakkin build a city. Do a better job than anyone at most things

Yes I said drakkin, clown

[Brut]

Ogre empire basically conquered much of anything they went up against in Norrath, and with not much else left to do the magis were conjuring arcane portals to invade the elemental planes, wherein ogre armies would go on battling side by side with their creator god.

Meanwhile iksar emperor put a froglok and a dragon in a pen together and watched them mate.

[JayN]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzSlz-xeKBopOzOW1FZLNRG8ynAAHmMWrhHXEVAf0BeECKtFn2 maaaastir Raaaace yiiiiiiiiiiiissssss

[Clark]

IksarSK begins to cast a spell.
A single mob bashes IksarSK for 1 point of damage.
IksarSK is stunned!
IksarSK's spell is interrupted.


OgreSK begins to cast a spell.
A flock of mobs bash OgreSK for massive amounts of damage.
OgreSK regains concentration and continues casting.
OgreSK laughs.
OgreSK slashes flock of mobs with a 2h animation that doesn't look like it's 1h piercing.


Also,
EruditeSK begins to cast a spell.
EruditeSK ducks.
EruditeSK's spell is interrupted.
EruditeSK camps and deletes and uninstalls.

lol

[myriverse]

Humans fuck
Gnomes tinker
Elves chill in the woods
Ogres had to be struck down by an elemental god to be defeated.
Trolls also lose to frogs
Dark elves built glowing awesome caves
Erudites blew cats up to the moon.
Barbs chill in the chill. Wear makeup
Halflings eat pie. Drink beer.

All accept trolls and ogres do just fine for themselves. Lucky for dark elves they are great cannon fodder.
What the Iksar did on Kunark is much more impressive than those other races, except Ogres, but look where it got them, and Humans, I guess.

Pie and beer? Seriously? That's an accomplishment?
Chilling in the chill and forests?
Neon caves? WTF? Seriously, EQ dark elves would cure any overblown Drizzt fan.

[Derubael]

you dont even have a proper alchemy vendor.

This a low blow.

[radditsu]

This a low blow.

Fix it then druuuuuuubbellll

[radditsu]

What the Iksar did on Kunark is much more impressive than those other races, except Ogres, but look where it got them, and Humans, I guess.

Pie and beer? Seriously? That's an accomplishment?
Chilling in the chill and forests?
Neon caves? WTF? Seriously, EQ dark elves would cure any overblown Drizzt fan.

Have you ever eaten pie and beer?


Its better than squatting in a third world shithole like cabilis

[myriverse]

Have you ever eaten pie and beer?
Pie and beer are for kids.
Its better than squatting in a third world shithole like cabilis
Cabilis is architectural nirvana! Go ruin your own lands.

[radditsu]

You have water coming in from a fetid swamp. You live in tents. Halflings can at least can build a wall right.

[myriverse]

We don't live in tents, just shop in them. Who else has such beautiful canals and gondolas? What other race has statues 2000 feet tall to show its superiority? None. Pathetic!

[Ahldagor]

iksar are biding their time like germany post ww2

[radditsu]

We don't live in tents, just shop in them. Who else has such beautiful canals and gondolas? What other race has statues 2000 feet tall to show its superiority? None. Pathetic!

Those things crumblin buddy.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Have you ever eaten pie and beer?


Its better than squatting in a third world shithole like cabilis

This. Halflings lead a glorious existence.

[Arteker]

iksar are biding their time like germany post ww2

they lost Sarnaks won the war

[Wudan]

This a low blow.

Do something about it please! We rely on you!

[myriverse]

Those things crumblin buddy.
Because of jealous haters. Go ruin your own lands.

[Mirana]

Only the master race could induce so much animosity.

[Vandamwtc]

When do iksar necromancers start coming into their own? I have a lvl 17, and so far it hardly seems worth the re roll from my 30 dark elf.

[Supaskillz]

When do iksar necromancers start coming into their own? I have a lvl 17, and so far it hardly seems worth the re roll from my 30 dark elf.

The regen scales with level, but it is never huge. The main reason it is important is that it offsets life loss from dark pact, allure of death, etc . I don't think the impact is so huge it's going to slap you in the face. More so just less often have to click off lich or use life taps.

[arsenalpow]

34 is when a necro feels pretty necro-y. You get your first awesome dot in venom of the snake, you get a really good lich spell in call of bones. Pet gets pretty good and you get invoke fear. You also get root, but that sucks. 49 is for real god mode though.

[khanable]

The regen scales with level, but it is never huge. The main reason it is important is that it offsets life loss from dark pact, allure of death, etc . I don't think the impact is so huge it's going to slap you in the face. More so just less often have to click off lich or use life taps.

Both Iksar and Trolls have higher HP regeneration rates (per tick):
Level 01-19: 4 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 20-49: 6 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 50: 8 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 51-55: 12 sitting, 8 feigned, 6 standing
Level 56-59: 16 sitting, 12 feigned, 10 standing
Level 60: 18 sitting, 14 feigned, 12 standing
Comparatively, these are the HP regeneration rates (per tick) for all other races:
Level 01-19: 2 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 20-49: 3 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 50: 4 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 51-55: 5 sitting, 3 feigned, 2 standing
Level 56-59: 6 sitting, 4 feigned, 3 standing
Level 60: 7 sitting, 5 feigned, 4 standing

You're getting HP back at least twice as fast..

[Stonecrush]

Both Iksar and Trolls have higher HP regeneration rates (per tick):
Level 01-19: 4 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 20-49: 6 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 50: 8 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 51-55: 12 sitting, 8 feigned, 6 standing
Level 56-59: 16 sitting, 12 feigned, 10 standing
Level 60: 18 sitting, 14 feigned, 12 standing
Comparatively, these are the HP regeneration rates (per tick) for all other races:
Level 01-19: 2 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 20-49: 3 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 50: 4 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 51-55: 5 sitting, 3 feigned, 2 standing
Level 56-59: 6 sitting, 4 feigned, 3 standing
Level 60: 7 sitting, 5 feigned, 4 standing

You're getting HP back at least twice as fast..


Hence the Iksar necro with it's higher AC and HP regen gives it a slight advantage in a pinch. I went Ikky on Live and really enjoyed playing them. It comes down to personal preference. When it comes time for me to make a necro it's the Lord of Fear and scales for me.

[Trosh]

I mean.. you guys are aware Gnomes can be SK's, right?

Case closed.

Oh Iksar are slimy and smelly like all reptiles, also.

If you aren't going to be a gnome, at least be a Dark Elf.. have some class, sheesh

[radditsu]

I mean.. you guys are aware Gnomes can be SK's, right?

Case closed.

Oh Iksar are slimy and smelly like all reptiles, also.

If you aren't going to be a gnome, at least be a Dark Elf.. have some class, sheesh


No gnome sk here.

[fadetree]

I mean.. you guys are aware Gnomes can be SK's, right?

Case closed.

Oh Iksar are slimy and smelly like all reptiles, also.

If you aren't going to be a gnome, at least be a Dark Elf.. have some class, sheesh

Reptiles are not slimy. You are thinking of amphibians.

[Trosh]

Reptiles are not slimy. You are thinking of amphibians.

still feel slimy and you must always wash your hands after handling them. that's slimy enough for me!

[Dragonsblood1987]

still feel slimy and you must always wash your hands after handling them. that's slimy enough for me!

You dont have to wash your hands after holding a reptile lol

[fadetree]

They are smooth and dry, not slimy. Your skin is dirtier than theirs is. You are literally CRAWLING with mites, bacteria, yeast, protozoans and fungi. You should always wash your reptile after handling it.

That said, Iksar's are kinda lame. Poke Poke, hiss.

[Arteker]

you realize hps worn regenation points should be caped at 30 in velious and racial doesnt stack up with them?.

at the end of the day a human necro or a human monk with the rigth toys would equal the regeneration of the iksars trolls

[Rhambuk]

They are smooth and dry, not slimy. Your skin is dirtier than theirs is. You are literally CRAWLING with mites, bacteria, yeast, protozoans and fungi. You should always wash your reptile after handling it.


You don't want to pass your bacteria onto your reptile! ( seriously )

also im going to go bathe in bleach