Mightystrike / stuns/ kick stuns

[Buhbuh]

From what I understand about classic warriors, their critical hits did far less damage then they are doing now. Apparently they do 200% maximum of their normal damage with critical hits, and 400% with crippling blows. I think they were 20% more/ 40% more, respectively, in classic. With AA's their critical and crippling strikes did far more (from what I've heard).

Also, the crippling blows stun every single time they land here. From what I remember it was a remote chance that crippling blows would stun people. With the right weapons, and even lacking haste, this gives the Mightystrike discipline the ability to effectively permanently stun a character from 100% to 0% almost guaranteed.

With the modifier on crippling blows (400%), it's almost an inevitability that the person targeted and disc'ed will die. A warrior at 1% can change the tide of a fight completely against a player that has all but killed him, which I find kind of silly.

As a monk I have to save Voiddance if I'm fighting a warrior. There's no other defense for it.

Also: I'm pretty certain that bashes and stun kicks were a .1 interrupt on live as well. Right now, that's not the case. I have been chain kick stunned 10 feet from a zone line and died from it, because the stuns are lasting for 1 second.

They're the "flavor of the month" right now because they can perma-lock any opposing player with mightystrike and get the kill with ease.

If nothing else, they need to be looked at. They're very, very strong.

[mostbitter]

plenty of evidence i'm sure this will be changed asap

[Bazia]

Monk complaining about other classes being OP

Okay

[krazyGlue]

Use voidance when they hit mighty strike . You win

[pgerman]

yea stun lock on mighty strike is hilarious, also the dmg is way too high, I agree , hitting for constant 200s with 1 handers is laughable ,

[Buhbuh]

plenty of evidence i'm sure this will be changed asap

oh a warrior commenting here against it

intredasting


i have no way to research it. im going off of other people/ my memory until it's looked into by a GM. stun-lock is retarded/ was never like that.

[mostbitter]

I'm not commenting against it. I'm one of the few who doesn't log in every hour to use it, but if you want something done about it you have to post more than your memory and I was just commenting that you supplied none.

[Smedy]

well its not just warriors that are op, it's monk, warrior, rogue that are op, the pure meeles on project 1999 is far superior to what they ever was on live. Needs to be looked at for sure.

[Bazia]

Everyone knows they hooked up a fat ass melee damage bonus in classic because resists were shit and it was impossible to get anything done with melees so they were basically non-existent.

Remove the fat ass melee bonus, resists aren't dog shit any more.

[Alecta]

Re: Melee dmg output, http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140383&page=2#15

I also remember a number of stuns that are currently 1 second being 0.1 second... there was a bug report about that somewhere too. Enchanter nukes & certain bard songs as well? I will try and dig it up.

[Bazia]

I don't understand what you're asking for in that thread but if you look back through the forums you will see a patch on Red during classic that increased melee dmg output by a good amount.

Just scale it back however much it was increased would be a simple fix.

[Handpartytowel]

bump.

mighty strike while berzerk is retardedly overpowered. every single hit for the duration of the disc (10s?) stuns for 1 second and hits for 4x damage.

what this means in real gameplay terms is that any warrior on the server can go afk to make coffee for the first 90% of his life, casually take a sip of his drink, hit a disc and 100% -> 0% any character, fully geared and raid buffed, standing 2 feet away from a zone line with 100% killshot certainty unless that class has an avoidance / riposte disc.

i believe the hits should be doing 0.1 or 0.0s stuns (interupts), not 100% stucklocking an opponent while you have 4x quake arena god mode buff activated.

[Nirgon]

Looked at thread.

Methinks AC not working has most to do with this...

But I'd ask Kringe about stun duration. I know crippling blows had a brief stun, not 100% sure right now if it should be 1s or .1s or .01s :P.

Melees hit too much / really high every time.

[Bazia]

overpowered but classic

dealwithit.jpg

[Nirgon]

The current hit rate against players!?

[Colgate]

hit rate and frequency of high damage/max hits is currently way too high

the AC changes haynar has patched onto the velious beta server actually make AC and ATK values feel very important; damage seems to be lowered across the board, even on low AC casters, unless you have avatar or something

[Nirgon]

I had something like 5 1hb skill and was able to hit a shaman in my range for max/near max hit every time a couple nights ago.

[Crazycloud]

well its not just warriors that are op, it's monk, warrior, rogue that are op, the pure meeles on project 1999 is far superior to what they ever was on live. Needs to be looked at for sure.

[Malevz]

Played a caster, and a tank. Doesn't seem to matter how much AC you have, get hit just as hard on plate tank as on a clothie.

[Crazycloud]

I had something like 5 1hb skill and was able to hit a shaman in my range for max/near max hit every time a couple nights ago.

yeah something is off, usually when i OT hammer with no skill im landing alot with full dmg.

[Technique]

From what I understand about classic warriors, their critical hits did far less damage then they are doing now. Apparently they do 200% maximum of their normal damage with critical hits, and 400% with crippling blows. I think they were 20% more/ 40% more, respectively, in classic. With AA's their critical and crippling strikes did far more (from what I've heard).There's no way they were only 20/40%, but it's dubious that the base crit mod was 200%.
With Veteran's Wrath 3 the modifer for critical hits is about 2.2. It is not 2.0 before Veteran's Wrath 3... something more like 1.7. I have no idea what the modifier is for crippling blow.http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=175257&postcount=31Without Veteran's Wrath crit is something like 1.7X damage. With VW maxed out the modifier is slightly more than 2X. Crippling blow is around 3X, unsure if affected by VW.http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=206752&postcount=10Pre Veteran's Wrath, the critical hit modifier is around 1.7X of a normal hithttp://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=232020&postcount=16Vet wrath increases your crit cap. Base crit cap without mods, or Vetwrath is 1.7 times your highest non crit hit. Vet wrat 1, is 1.89 times, Vet wrath 2 is 2.09 times, and vet wrath 3 is 2.46 times.http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showpost.php?p=123591&postcount=6With full Veteran's Wrath, the crit modifier is something like 3.05 ... 1.70 for nothing, 2.0, 2.25, 2.45, 2.55, 2.65, 2.75, 2.85, 2.95, 3.05 I believe the progression is.http://eqoutrider.net/eqforums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3837&start=120

Also, the crippling blows stun every single time they land here.They don't stun every time, but the frequency is very high.

Also: I'm pretty certain that bashes and stun kicks were a .1 interrupt on live as well.There are countless classic logs of people being bashed by npcs and the logged stun duration is always 2 seconds.I have been chain kick stunned 10 feet from a zone line and died from it, because the stuns are lasting for 1 second.Normal stuns from bash/kick are 2 seconds, but crippling blow stuns are lasting exactly 3. That's almost certainly wrong.

[Colgate]

uhh yeah, i'm pretty sure crippling blows do stun on every single hit here

[Technique]

uhh yeah, crippling blows certainly do stun on every single hit herenaw

[Fri Oct 24 12:34:52 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 3 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 12 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(4)
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:55 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!

[Fri Oct 24 12:40:30 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(4)
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 12 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 1 point of damage.

[Nirgon]

He said pretty sure why u go n' change it in the quote

Good stuff otherwise

[Malevz]

naw

[Fri Oct 24 12:34:52 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 3 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 12 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(4)
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 13 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:54 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 1 point of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:34:55 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!

[Fri Oct 24 12:40:30 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(4)
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 12 points of damage.
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds tries to punch YOU, but misses!
[Fri Oct 24 12:40:31 2014] Dudds punches YOU for 1 point of damage.

This isn't really an accurate log, obviously Dudds is level 60 with epics or he'd never be hitting for (4).

[Technique]

He said pretty sure why u go n' change it in the quoteLast edited by Colgate; Today at 01:17 PM..

Happened to quote it before I checked logs to paste and he tried to pull a fast one in the meantime.

[Colgate]

and what level is dudds? also was this on the red server or the velious beta?

i've played a melee here for years and have NEVER seen a crippling blow not stun someone, including playing a warrior myself

i've never, ever heard someone say "what the fuck dude i landed a crippling blow and he didn't get stunned"

[Technique]

60, though level is irrelevant.

And on the beta server, which is also unlikely to be relevant but I'll grant you there could be a difference between the two servers in this respect.

This isn't really an accurate log, obviously Dudds is level 60 with epics or he'd never be hitting for (4).Fists are a 2dmg weapon. Min hit of 1*2*2 = 4. Crit/crip messages display damage before bonuses. 4 + 11 (mainhand dmg bonus @ 60) = 15.

[Haynar]

Working this now.

Making crippling hit, crippling blow damages 1.7x and 3.0x.

Stun duration? - currently 3 sec.

Stun chance? - for a crippling blow, currently at 80%

H

[Haynar]

Reading lots of posts about crippling blows. They tend to lead towards they all stun.

But also, the PvP strategy for warriors, when they might strike while berserk, you run away. But if the stun is of any duration, you would never get away.

And casters dont stand a chance to get a spell off in this situation.

Thats what I find.

H

[quido]

Is the stun that long though? I understood they might be a fraction of a second.

[Colgate]

it's currently that long, not supposed to be though

it's supposed to be a fraction of a second yeah, not nearly enough to stunlock someone for 9 seconds straight

[Technique]

But if the stun is of any duration, you would never get away.Unless the chance to stun isn't guaranteed.

I doubt that the stun would've been shorter or longer than a typical bash stun. Also, just as not all bashes on Live stunned, it doesn't seem likely that every crippling blow did.

So the way I see it (absent any testing on Live), you have two options:


assume that crippling blow on Live was simply a special case of bash (i.e., an attack with a percentage chance to stun, in which case it stunned for 2 seconds) and emulate this behavior.
make it a guaranteed chance to stun but with a minimal duration.

I feel that the former would be more "classic" but the latter would be better for PvP.

[Mac Drettj]

Reading lots of posts about crippling blows. They tend to lead towards they all stun.

But also, the PvP strategy for warriors, when they might strike while berserk, you run away. But if the stun is of any duration, you would never get away.

And casters dont stand a chance to get a spell off in this situation.

Thats what I find.

H

I interpret this as "run away when you see the disc message before they hit you" which is what the current strategy is.

[Colgate]

strategy remains the same but with the new changes you aren't guaranteed to be killed

[Mac Drettj]

There are countless classic logs of people being bashed by npcs and the logged stun duration is always 2 seconds.Normal stuns from bash/kick are 2 seconds, but crippling blow stuns are lasting exactly 3. That's almost certainly wrong.

I kicked someone 2day and they did not get stunned.

Is kickstun 100% or are you saying the stun, if it happens, is always 2sec?

[Haynar]

Unless the chance to stun isn't guaranteed.

I doubt that the stun would've been shorter or longer than a typical bash stun. Also, just as not all bashes on Live stunned, it doesn't seem likely that every crippling blow did.

So the way I see it (absent any testing on Live), you have two options:


assume that crippling blow on Live was simply a special case of bash (i.e., an attack with a percentage chance to stun, in which case it stunned for 2 seconds) and emulate this behavior.
make it a guaranteed chance to stun but with a minimal duration.

I feel that the former would be more "classic" but the latter would be better for PvP.
I am thinking live testing is what i will do. Pretty sure I have access to a 55 warrior on one of my friends accounts. Will try to get on and do a bit of testing tonight or tomorrow.

H

[Haynar]

Did some parses.

Stuns were 2 secs.

If you were already stunned, it did not restart the timer.

100% hits were crippling blows using mighty strike, while berzerk.

All crippling blows caused stuns.

So you can run, soon as unstunned, if you get out of there before another crippling blow hits.

I bet stun in general, should not extend the timer with a new incoming stun while stunned. Stun locked = dumb. Will try to test pve too.

H

[Technique]

I bet stun in general, should not extend the timer with a new incoming stun while stunned.It's already functioning that way on p99.

[Haynar]

It's already functioning that way on p99.
Based on how its coded. Its not trying to. The client is probably negating some of the atun from the new packet while currently stunned. Based on prev reports, you still couldnt cast.

I will make sure its right.

The crippling blow damage seems a bit more tha 3x. Will do more parsing.

Need to parse the multiplier and frequency of deadly strike too. And flight time of thrown and ranged items. Will be nice to get multiples flying at targets before first damage occurs.

Stand by for more changes as i get the details ironed out.

H

[Technique]

As an aside, did you notice any stat changes or change in movement speed while berserk?
berserk increases your STR and STA (maybe, don't remember). because STR is used into ATK it will increase too and make you hit a little stronger.http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=275350&postcount=5
Even at the lowest level, your STR gets a boost when you go berserk, adding a touch to your atk and average hit amount I suppose.http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=206802&postcount=18

The client is probably negating some of the atun from the new packet while currently stunned. Based on prev reports, you still couldnt cast.I put this to the test on beta by auto-repeating my spell hotkey at max rate while affected by a single bash/kick/cripp stun and the following excerpt was typical:
[Sun Oct 26 23:21:19 2014] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Sun Oct 26 23:21:19 2014] You are unstunned.
[Sun Oct 26 23:21:19 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Sun Oct 26 23:21:19 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Sun Oct 26 23:21:19 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Sun Oct 26 23:21:19 2014] You begin casting Torpor.But when I tried the same while being chain-stunned by mightystrike cripps, this was the result (removed most of the "you can't cast spells while stunned!" spam to cut down on length):
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] You are stunned!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] Gurg staggers.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(112)
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] Dudds slashes YOU for 123 points of damage.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] Gurg staggers.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(144)
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] Dudds slashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:19 2014] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:20 2014] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:20 2014] Dudds tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:20 2014] Gurg staggers.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:20 2014] Dudds lands a Crippling Blow!(192)
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:20 2014] Dudds slashes YOU for 203 points of damage.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:20 2014] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:21 2014] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You can't cast spells while stunned!
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You are unstunned.
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:22 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Mon Oct 27 00:42:23 2014] You begin casting Torpor.Judging by the difference in the number of "haven't recovered" messages, something along the lines of what you described must be happening.

The crippling blow damage seems a bit more tha 3x. Will do more parsing.I don't believe any AA's modified crippling blow, so maybe it's simply a 2x mod? (1.7 * 2 = 3.4x dmg)

And flight time of thrown and ranged items. Will be nice to get multiples flying at targets before first damage occurs.Interested to know if it varies by range and if all projectiles have the same speed.

[Smedy]

bump.

mighty strike while berzerk is retardedly overpowered. every single hit for the duration of the disc (10s?) stuns for 1 second and hits for 4x damage.

what this means in real gameplay terms is that any warrior on the server can go afk to make coffee for the first 90% of his life, casually take a sip of his drink, hit a disc and 100% -> 0% any character, fully geared and raid buffed, standing 2 feet away from a zone line with 100% killshot certainty unless that class has an avoidance / riposte disc.

i believe the hits should be doing 0.1 or 0.0s stuns (interupts), not 100% stucklocking an opponent while you have 4x quake arena god mode buff activated.

i agree with this man

[Potus]

I kind of want to go play Quake Arena now.

[quido]

Just as an aside, what about like with t-staff? Does a second proc before it's up replace it, not take effect, or add to it?

Add imo =)

[Mac Drettj]

Add imo =)

no that sounds awful

[Colgate]

one time during the 18 second proc days, i had ordaga spinning in place for a minute straight because i'd proc on the hit immediately after each proc

then he targeted me, pressed auto attack, and hit me for 1500 damage(without mighty strike) with executioner blade

we were both at 30% hp at that point

[Haynar]

I kind of want to go play Quake Arena now.
CTF!

[Smedy]

one time during the 18 second proc days, i had ordaga spinning in place for a minute straight because i'd proc on the hit immediately after each proc

then he targeted me, pressed auto attack, and hit me for 1500 damage(without mighty strike) with executioner blade

we were both at 30% hp at that point

ya tstaff was for sure op, glad it was fixed, now lets fix that warrior insanely op shit

[Slathar]

Working as intended and identical to Live mechanic. No need to change this.

[Haynar]

For crit dmg, looks like 1h bonus is 1.7x. For 2h the bonus is 2x.

Still working this out. The 2h being diff messed up my theory.

H

[pingpong]

Working as intended and identical to Live mechanic. No need to change this.

is this actually the case? why are we changing if this is classic? Is this going to be like the golem wand change and some of the other classic but overpowered issues?

If we are discussing things that are powerful and would like changed, I personally think duelist backstab is overpowered that a rogue can basically do 2k damage in 1 round and kill me. can we eliminate that insta kill ability as well? Haynar can you change this too please? i can provide logs if needed.

[Bazia]

the melee buff removal fix would help with alot of these overpowered melee discs issues as well

[Buhbuh]

naw slathar's a troll, absolutely true

warrior still OP

i was correct when i made this post 9 months ago, i'm correct now

alecta had kick stuns going back to 0.1 secs (simple interrupt) and crippling blows stunning with a 33% only (still think that's high, but better than 100%) chance in the works but nothing ever came of it because... well.

[Lasher]

working correctly, especially since i am coming back to play my warrior ehehehehe

[Burgerking]

Here's a common sense approach to the current balance between Caster's and Melee's.

Pure Caster's are often known as Glass Cannon's, high dmg low hp's. Now you have tanks doing 4-5x the amount of damage casters are. How is it balanced that the highest hp classes are also doing the most amounts of dmg?

If that were correct don't you think people would have talked about how unbalanced Everquest was and how it was awesome to be a melee. The boards were dominated by casters during Kunark/Velious era, very few melee's in top 50, here the top 50 is loaded with melee's.

Shit is just wrong, it's wrong in balance, and it's wrong in classic timeline.

[Pillage]

Warriors do damage once an hour, for 10 seconds, when they use their damage disc. Shall I alert CNN, or you could take a few steps away in any direction?

The real diff was on live people moved away. On Red99 dying to a warrior while he's using damage disc means GMs must know, stop everything.

No one mentions you can chain cast wizard nukes on the same warrior with 0 resists

[Malevz]

As a warrior I'd like to suggest that I'm okay with some fine tuning of our damage disc. However could AC do something in PvP other than be decorative? On live in AC gear fights lasted much longer against melee, because the bulk of damage they did to you on a warrior was laughable.

Here AC doesn't seem to do anything, and resists other than MR are laughable, warriors get a higher HP pool, and... cool looking armor?

[Burgerking]

Warriors do damage once an hour, for 10 seconds, when they use their damage disc. Shall I alert CNN, or you could take a few steps away in any direction?

The real diff was on live people moved away. On Red99 dying to a warrior while he's using damage disc means GMs must know, stop everything.

No one mentions you can chain cast wizard nukes on the same warrior with 0 resists

Are you even pvping or are you just trolling?

A warrior without using any disc can out dps a wizard. A warrior with good weps will do more than a draught in 3 seconds time EASILY!

I was hit one round by Elrich for 805, 755 double attack with crippling blow with 900 AC, that's higher than a sunstrike in less than 2 seconds and you think that's classic or balanced.

LMFAO GTFOH!

[Nirgon]

Sunstrike that stuns for 2 seconds too pretty good

[Pillage]

I'll agree that AC is broken. But you stood and tanked a warrior that disced while berzerk with a 2 hander? Here's a hint, move for 10 seconds. Or get two instant clicks, bury levitate and reclick if he tries to dispel. Here's another hint, warriors have 0 channeling so if you put a pet on him he can't dispel or reach you. Thus 0 damage. You're welcome for the lesson, and don't worry, PvP servers are always hard when you first start. You'll get the hang of it.

[Malevz]

Warrior damage is classic from what I've seen, with the exception of crippling which do seem high. Stun I'm not sure about.

[Burgerking]

I'll agree that AC is broken. But you stood and tanked a warrior that disced while berzerk with a 2 hander? Here's a hint, move for 10 seconds. Or get two instant clicks, bury levitate and reclick if he tries to dispel. Here's another hint, warriors have 0 channeling so if you put a pet on him he can't dispel or reach you. Thus 0 damage. You're welcome for the lesson, and don't worry, PvP servers are always hard when you first start. You'll get the hang of it.

LMFAO this guy is hilarious, love player's who talk a whole buncha shit on anonymous forum accounts.

[Smedy]

Warrior damage is classic from what I've seen, with the exception of crippling which do seem high. Stun I'm not sure about.

meanwhile in sig

Xash 60 Warrior

<Holocaust> Minister of Propaganda

lets listen to this guy more about the warrior class

[Nirgon]

Smedy's new character with stolen items is not a warrior, got it

[Smedy]

zero stolen items, thank 4 consider and share though

[Pudge]

Smedy's whistle is clean. His accounts are pristine.

[Buhbuh]

Except the stolen stuff.

[Haynar]

Here are my results.

For a given weapon, you will have a max damage, based on several things that contribute.

I will call max damage, max_dmg.

The damage bonus a weapon gets, I will call dmg_bonus.

The base damage of a weapon, I will call base_weap_dmg.

Here is a list of weapon damage bonuses:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html

For critical hits, weapons in primary (difference for offhand, it gets no damage bonus component).

Min_Crit_dmg = 1.7 * base_weap_dmg + 8 + dmg_bonus
Max_Crit_dmg = (max_dmg - dmg_bonus) * 1.7 + 8 + damage_bonus

For crippling blows (no dmg_bonus for offhand):

Min_Crippling_blow_dmg = 2.9 * base_weap_dmg + 13 + dmg_bonus
Max_Crippling_blow_dmg = (Max_Crit_dmg - dmg_bonus) * 1.7 + dmg_bonus

Whew ....

H

[Colgate]

aww yiss

[Burgerking]

Here are my results.

For a given weapon, you will have a max damage, based on several things that contribute.

I will call max damage, max_dmg.

The damage bonus a weapon gets, I will call dmg_bonus.

The base damage of a weapon, I will call base_weap_dmg.

Here is a list of weapon damage bonuses:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html

For critical hits, weapons in primary (difference for offhand, it gets no damage bonus component).

Min_Crit_dmg = 1.7 * base_weap_dmg + 8 + dmg_bonus
Max_Crit_dmg = (max_dmg - dmg_bonus) * 1.7 + 8 + damage_bonus

For crippling blows (no dmg_bonus for offhand):

Min_Crippling_blow_dmg = 2.9 * base_weap_dmg + 13 + dmg_bonus
Max_Crippling_blow_dmg = (Max_Crit_dmg - dmg_bonus) * 1.7 + dmg_bonus

Whew ....

H

That's fine for the dmg values but you don't have AC factoring in miss rate, you're rolling it solely off of weapon skill. Which is why people are saying they are getting hit a lot more than they remember.

You also don't have AC factoring in dmg mitigation at the correct rates which is why melee's are hitting a lot harder than they should.

You cannot lower the resist caps until this is first addressed, or otherwise you would have literally buffed melee's while nerfing casters, when casters are already un-viable for pvp vs melees.

[Malevz]

Every class would benefit from AC working in pvp by mitigating some of the damage they take. Right now cloth classes melt and even tanks seem to take max damage despite their AC.

[Burgerking]

Every class would benefit from AC working in pvp by mitigating some of the damage they take. Right now cloth classes melt and even tanks seem to take max damage despite their AC.

On live during velious, there was nothing I feared more than a Shadowknights unholy aura harmtouch. Here I feel like every melee is harmtouching me over and over again.

[Malevz]

Played 3 rogues on live. Feared damage shields, and warriors. Damage shields is obvious for rogues.

Warriors I feared because I could beat on a warrior for 5 minutes, and their AC/HP meant it took forever to kill them, all my hits would be small. They'd put their back in the corner, put on a 2 hander, and there was no way to win.

[Burgerking]

Played 3 rogues on live. Feared damage shields, and warriors. Damage shields is obvious for rogues.

Warriors I feared because I could beat on a warrior for 5 minutes, and their AC/HP meant it took forever to kill them, all my hits would be small. They'd put their back in the corner, put on a 2 hander, and there was no way to win.

You're 100% on the money, here I can turn and face a rogue everytime and they backstab me from the side as well as getting off backstabs while I'm directly backed up to a wall. Harder than I've ever been backstabbed on live and they mow through my life before my kiva's dmg shield can even dent them.

[Malevz]

This probably won't help but I remember finding a troll shaman in sirens during velious. I must have smacked him around for 10 minutes, including backstabs, and I was very well geared. Couldn't outdamage torpor or if I did not for long, and couldn't run him oom. Finally after about 8-10 minutes he drank a damage shield pot and I was screwed.

At no point did he put his back against the wall. Just decent geared/self buffed/torpor. And of course AC worked.

[Malevz]

I'd like to add torpor shaman we're a legit pain in the ass. But thinking back backstabs missed a lot more on live too.

[Buhbuh]

Ya that's one thing missing here. Those long fights. Mass PvP takes 5 minutes here, rather than 2 hours

[Haynar]

Played 3 rogues on live. Feared damage shields, and warriors. Damage shields is obvious for rogues.

Warriors I feared because I could beat on a warrior for 5 minutes, and their AC/HP meant it took forever to kill them, all my hits would be small. They'd put their back in the corner, put on a 2 hander, and there was no way to win.

There are AC changes for pvp on Beta. Test it if you have time. I can bump it higher if dps is still too high. Feedback really would help.

H

[Malevz]

HMMM, very excited, will take a look.

[Colgate]

seems like crippling blows are still stunning consistently and for several seconds on the beta server, as if no change was made

[Smedy]

On live during velious, there was nothing I feared more than a Shadowknights unholy aura harmtouch. Here I feel like every melee is harmtouching me over and over again.

Agreed, here the worst for me is a BiS rogue, cause you drop like a fucking rock getting backstabbed from the front for double 450-500 like i'm wearing some sort of rags but i'm actually wearing plate.

Very excited to see the changes, hope Haynar doesn't burn out from all this and continues to give us patches

[Smedy]

Ya that's one thing missing here. Those long fights. Mass PvP takes 5 minutes here, rather than 2 hours

pras

[Burgerking]

This probably won't help but I remember finding a troll shaman in sirens during velious. I must have smacked him around for 10 minutes, including backstabs, and I was very well geared. Couldn't outdamage torpor or if I did not for long, and couldn't run him oom. Finally after about 8-10 minutes he drank a damage shield pot and I was screwed.

At no point did he put his back against the wall. Just decent geared/self buffed/torpor. And of course AC worked.

Yea man my Shaman on live took a massive beating before he went down, but it was a trade off since it was hard to actually get the kill on someone before they fled the zone.

I've only been 60 for about a month now on red99 but so far with a great geared pvp shaman my pvp experience to melee has been.

http://blog.chron.com/tubular/files/2014/06/jojen-death.gif

So far Haynar is doing a great job fixing it tho.