Stupid idea

[cries4hardcore]

Hello all,
This thought just crossed my mind. What would happen if the devs made mqing impossible. Would it piss off more people than it helped? Would it allow a lot of people to experience content that they otherwise never would have been able to? Maybe I'm wrong, but between raid targets and droppable loot, isn't that enough to keep perma campers happy? The point of having no drop quested items was so people could be rewarded for accomplishing something. It's not supposed to be monetized. It's just a thought, and I'm sure I'll get slammed for it. Additionally, I'm a hypocrite in that if I could afford it I would multi quest the shit out of some items. But is that because I/we Are lazy or is it because I/we could not have said items otherwise?
Only reason I'm thinking about this is because I read a velious forum and it dawned on me that with mqing a good deal of the community is just shit out of luck with faction armor and similar content.
Let the beating commence.

[Spacebar]

The issue of MQing for profit always seems to come up. Many people think that banning it would open up a lot of opportunities as many people are killing stuff just to MQ it. This might be true in some cases, but disabling MQing would have a lot of negative effects also.

First, people on this server would definitely end up just selling looting rights. This is even true for mobs that don't have a 100% chance to drop something. Look at how some guilds will sell looting rights to no-drop items from sky, demon fangs, etc.

Second, if MQing wasn't possible, a lot more times the items might just go to waste. Oh, you didn't have the right class who needed the right thing that dropped, well, I guess it rots. Now, guilds can loot it and MQ it to a guildy later.

I think that, in general, the benefits of MQ outweigh the drawbacks. However, it is certainly an important issue for the server that should be looked at when the impact of Velious on it becomes more apparent.

[BigHurb]

ooooooooh yea brother the macho man approves

the game would be better, thats what would happen. people couldnt hoard shit.

[Swish]

Any change made always pisses someone off. Personally I hate the EC fat cats and the MQ profiteering, but people want to blow big money on having their epics early, for convenience etc.

Why play a classic EQ emulator and then shortcut the big things like epic quests? Each to their own I guess, some people like EconomyQuest more than leveling characters.

[cries4hardcore]

Thank you space bar for filling in the rest of the puzzle. Yes, I agree with what you say. And basically the solution for it all is self restraint, empathy, selflessness, and kindness. All of which is impossible on the intraweb. We will just have to sneak in to Kael spawns when they are raising! Muahahaha

[Daldaen]

Any change made always pisses someone off. Personally I hate the EC fat cats and the MQ profiteering, but people want to blow big money on having their epics early, for convenience etc.

Why play a classic EQ emulator and then shortcut the big things like epic quests? Each to their own I guess, some people like EconomyQuest more than leveling characters.

A little bit of it may be not wanting to compete with the MQ sellers for the bottleneck camps/mobs/groundspawns and just buying it is the only feasible means of attaining the epic since they can only sit at a camp for 3-4 hours at a time and its taken the 3-4 hours you're available every night.

I think it would be the best place if MQ Sales weren't allowed but not better than our current situation if you completely disabled MQs from functioning. Due to what was stated earlier. It sucks when some no-drop piece drops and you can't loot it and MQ for your guildmate who couldn't make it that night.

That being said... PoSky should be fully MQable!

[Kekephee]

Any change made always pisses someone off. Personally I hate the EC fat cats and the MQ profiteering, but people want to blow big money on having their epics early, for convenience etc.

Why play a classic EQ emulator and then shortcut the big things like epic quests? Each to their own I guess, some people like EconomyQuest more than leveling characters.

I mostly agree. The deal is though, when you make your first character on P99 and bring him to level 5 and step into EC you realize this is a whole different game than what you had in your head when you made your character. No one but a handful of very slimy sickos were like "yeeheehee I can't wait to play a version of EQ where the ultimate goal isn't just to get more loot than the other guy, but to totally cockblock him from getting that loot after I've gotten it by continuing to get it and just selling it to someone else or giving it to alts I don't actually play or just straight up deleting it, yeeeheeeeheeee."


And epics? Come on. "Camp this mob for 12 hours. Great, you got that piece. Now you can save up 100k to get the next part MQd because the hell if you're ever going to see VS go down lol"


There's something entirely malicious- not just selfish, not just inconsiderate, straight-up malicious- about spending three weeks with my necro parked on the AC island in OOT waiting for whichever one of the fantastic MQ merchant squad had the camp at that point to finish their 12 hour shift of corpsing rings- spamming their jboot buff all the while.

Inb4 "that wouldn't happen on Red"
inb4 "you're just whiny, that's capitalism baby"
inb4 "well you just didn't wake up early enough/stay up late enough, whose fault is that"

[Daldaen]

There's something entirely malicious- not just selfish, not just inconsiderate, straight-up malicious- about spending three weeks with my necro parked on the AC island in OOT waiting for whichever one of the fantastic MQ merchant squad had the camp at that point to finish their 12 hour shift of corpsing rings- spamming their jboot buff all the while.

This speaks to my main annoyance with the sale of MQs. Not so much the random druid who gets a Berguggle Crown while camping his Corrupted Aqua Shaman. Or the random mage who gets a glimpse of AC across the water from his Seafury camp and kills him.

Its more the guy who is camping Gimblox for the 25th time to sell the MQ. The guys who have turned the majority of their profits off farming the same quest over and over.

It is EverQuest after all. Not EverBuyYourQuestReward. No Drop items are No Drop for a reason.

[Tuffpuppy]

As much pain as MQing seems to cause a portion of this community the fact is that not only did nilbog spend his valuable time making MQing work, is that MQing is classic. No reason to remove it. However, I don't think level 1's should be able to receive an epic from MQ's, add a level restrictment or something.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'm really not an asshole. But when people cry like this about stuff like this?

http://data2.whicdn.com/images/57338344/large.jpg

[Tecmos Deception]

This speaks to my main annoyance with the sale of MQs. Not so much the random druid who gets a Berguggle Crown while camping his Corrupted Aqua Shaman. Or the random mage who gets a glimpse of AC across the water from his Seafury camp and kills him.

Its more the guy who is camping Gimblox for the 25th time to sell the MQ. The guys who have turned the majority of their profits off farming the same quest over and over.

It is EverQuest after all. Not EverBuyYourQuestReward. No Drop items are No Drop for a reason.

EQ would have failed back in the day + none of us would be playing it now if all of the things the developers intended went live + none of the things they didn't intend went live.

[Daldaen]

EQ would have failed back in the day + none of us would be playing it now if all of the things the developers intended went live + none of the things they didn't intend went live.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/592/my-brain-is-full-of-fuck.jpg

[Tecmos Deception]

It wasn't THAT hard to figure out.

Remember the thread about emergent gameplay and how everyone agreed that it was what made EQ great and what makes modern MMOs bland? MQing is emergent gameplay, just like a shitload of other features the devs of EQ didn't intend but that popped up and are 110% vital to the game we know and love today, like kiting, AE groups, FD splitting, etc.

Droppable or no drop doesn't mean shit especially when MQing was implemented intentionally in classic, just like the devs saying they didn't intend AE groups doesn't mean shit especially when they intentionally left a cap off the number of targets PBAEs could affect.

[cries4hardcore]

As much pain as MQing seems to cause a portion of this community the fact is that not only did nilbog spend his valuable time making MQing work, is that MQing is classic. No reason to remove it. However, I don't think level 1's should be able to receive an epic from MQ's, add a level restrictment or something.

And I guess this is something I'm beginning to understand. That the purity of what Classic was is to be maintained above all else. I doubt it was intended. Anyone know if they got rid of mqing down the road when they figured it out? Either way, I don't have too strong of an opinion either way. But there does seem to be room for improvement and it also seems like there is room for discussion. Hence the forum post.

[cries4hardcore]

It wasn't THAT hard to figure out.

Remember the thread about emergent gameplay and how everyone agreed that it was what made EQ great and what makes modern MMOs bland? MQing is emergent gameplay, just like a shitload of other features the devs of EQ didn't intend but that popped up and are 110% vital to the game we know and love today, like kiting, AE groups, FD splitting, etc.

Droppable or no drop doesn't mean shit especially when MQing was implemented intentionally in classic, just like the devs saying they didn't intend AE groups doesn't mean shit especially when they intentionally left a cap off the number of targets PBAEs could affect.
But is all emergent gameplay positive? People on pvp servers who just kill noobs probably effect server population. Would it be wrong to protect new players from constant grief?

[Tecmos Deception]

No, it's not all necessarily good. But a server striving for classic mechanics AND a classic experience can't fully achieve both, and I think it is pretty plain that the staff here think the lesser evil is usually erring on the side of classic mechanics instead of trying to create custom mechanics to try to recreate the environment on live servers 15 years ago. So we have MQ mechanics and the people who take advantage of that.

If the people farming AC, who are allegedly maliciously blocking some other person from getting a ring directly (lol), weren't selling jboot MQs, what would happen? Instead of keke complaining about not being able to get his own jboots, he'd have his own jboots but would be complaining about some random droppable item being farmed by the guy who would have been at AC.

[cries4hardcore]

I recognize there will always be something to complain about, and that someone will always be complaining. I guess it's just a bit different here because new content is not being rolled out, what's available is meant to be limited and has a very clear cap. So people won't move on to new things thus opening up old shit. Either way, I'll be in ec tunnel buying jboots when I can afford them. Was just some food for thought. I'm departing this forum now. Happy hunting all.

[Swish]

I'm really not an asshole. But when people cry like this about stuff like this?

http://data2.whicdn.com/images/57338344/large.jpg

Brought to you by someone on the server top 20 rich list? Yeahhh.

[Kekephee]

first of all, maybe my memory is a little hazy but I don't remember MQ sales being at the level they are at on this server on live. Your contention that it's "classic" is, in my opinion, incorrect because on classic, yes, people sold MQs, but not nearly to the extent that they do here.

Second of all, jboots were one example. There are plenty of other things about which the same complaint could be, and has been, made. So, yeah, I guess "lolol that guy would be complaining about sumting else lolol" is kind of true, but at the same time, isn't it more demonstrative of the overall problem being, yes, pretty noticeable than of me being some kind of a whiny bitch? If everyone is screaming, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE FIXED, and it's not just some "this game is hard :-(" bullshit (which you're trying to play it off like it is,) doesn't that kind of mean there's a problem?

Oh, and I got my jboots, eventually. So I'm not just some whiny guy complaining about hard game here. I'm someone who sees a problem to which there is, ehhh KIND of a way to work around, but in an objective sense it would be a little better for everyone if it could be solved. So don't bother trying to play this "yeeheeheeeheeheee KEKE IS WHINER" shit. You're so into "the classic EQ experience," well I think it'd be a lot more like what I remember if people weren't MQing rogue epics and hoarding AC spawns all day. I have no idea which one of us is remembering this game right but I will tell you I had jboots on live and spent a lot of time working on an epic I never finished and at no point did I have to buy my Naggy book from Paradigm.

[Kekephee]

Brought to you by someone on the server top 20 rich list? Yeahhh.

My first instinct was to go "what the hell Tecmos, why are you so gung ho about keeping jboots and epics out of the hands of everyone who doesn't want to buy them?" I thought about it and ultimately, he can solo everything in this goddamn game so I know he's not "one of those MQ guys" because he wouldn't need to be, so I'm guessing he really believes that back on live it was impossible to get your epic without buying it from TMO and no one ever got a pair of jboots who didn't pay for them


Which may be true! I was 15 at the time! My memory may be hazy!

[Tecmos Deception]

first of all, maybe my memory is a little hazy but I don't remember MQ sales being at the level they are at on this server on live. Your contention that it's "classic" is, in my opinion, incorrect because on classic, yes, people sold MQs, but not nearly to the extent that they do here.

I never contended "it's classic" because I draw a distinction between classic MECHANICS and classic EXPERIENCE. MQs are a classic mechanic. Selling MQs like people do on here is not a very classic experience. And like I said, staff seem to think that it is usually a better idea to have classic mechanics than to try their hand at custom mechanics in hopes of recreating a more classic experience.


so I'm guessing he really believes that back on live it was impossible to get your epic without buying it from TMO and no one ever got a pair of jboots who didn't pay for them

Again, you're not distinguishing classic mechanics from classic experience, and you need to because it is impossible to have both.

[Tecmos Deception]

Brought to you by someone on the server top 20 rich list? Yeahhh.

I wasn't always rich, and you definitely won't be able to find a quote of me complaining about someone else wanting to get rich themselves by, gasp, camping an item!

[Kekephee]

For the record, I am into emergent gameplay. I think it's great when people are able to actually use the game and how it works to do things differently and solve problems in creative ways. This is the same reason I think nerfing low hp kiting was... something. Not "bad," not "unnecessary," just, "not in the spirit of what's cool about EQ." Personally, I think Chardok AE is a complete racket, totally unfair and completely counter to the kind of EQ I like to play, BUT I don't ask that it be taken away from people because guess what, that's EQ, and someone had to die a lot to figure it out and it paid off for them and I'm behind it. As long as it doesn't totally step on the toes of other people who are trying to play (I don't think it does.) Low HP got nerfed because people got greedy and were taking the whole zone and stepped on too many toes. That's fair.

[Kekephee]

I never contended "it's classic" because I draw a distinction between classic MECHANICS and classic EXPERIENCE. MQs are a classic mechanic. Selling MQs like people do on here is not a very classic experience. And like I said, staff seem to think that it is usually a better idea to have classic mechanics than to try their hand at custom mechanics in hopes of recreating a more classic experience.




Again, you're not distinguishing classic mechanics from classic experience, and you need to because it is impossible to have both.


That's fair. I'll buy it.

[Kekephee]

I mean as we speak I'm levelling a level 6 wizard on Red by pulling a shitload of green skeletons and AEing them down because I figured out the bone chips quest is better exp than killing mobs in my range. Am I hurting anyone? I'm not trying to- there seem to be plenty of mobs around for everyone else. Am I doing something that I think is pretty creative and not really "how people do it" most of the time? Yep, and it's working very well for me. This game is cool because it allows you to be creative. But don't dick other people over all day every day to do that.

[Tecmos Deception]

I mean as we speak I'm levelling a level 6 wizard on Red by pulling a shitload of green skeletons and AEing them down because I figured out the bone chips quest is better exp than killing mobs in my range. Am I hurting anyone? I'm not trying to- there seem to be plenty of mobs around for everyone else. Am I doing something that I think is pretty creative and not really "how people do it" most of the time? Yep, and it's working very well for me. This game is cool because it allows you to be creative. But don't dick other people over all day every day to do that.

Leveling my 6 chanter on red by delivering mail to kelethin cause it's still faster than killing shit... lol.

WTB xp bonus :)

[Kekephee]

This argument that Chewie and everyone else is having about the exp bonus is really bumming me out. Having your EQ everything invested into a dead server must be so depressing.

[Kekephee]

PS you should try this bone chips shit, I'm sure you can kill 4 skeletons faster than you can run a letter from kelethin to FP and that's half a yellow of exp at 6

[Byrjun]

I don't understand how getting rid of MQing "opens up content for more people." People aren't going to stop killing Venril Sathir, Trakanon, Faydedar, etc. just because they can't MQ epic items. If you want to experience the content, join a guild doing that content and get your epic.

[Cecily]

Allow MQs, disable epic turn ins for sub 50s. Fixed yay. Let me sell the MQs to the really really really lazy suckers.

[cries4hardcore]

I don't understand how getting rid of MQing "opens up content for more people." People aren't going to stop killing Venril Sathir, Trakanon, Faydedar, etc. just because they can't MQ epic items. If you want to experience the content, join a guild doing that content and get your epic.

What I mean by more content opening up is this. Without mqing, after you have experienced the content, gotten what you needed, it is far less likely you will especially camp it yourself or with a group of friends taking shifts. Not talking about raid mobs and large events. Do I think people will leave kael ok the future because they got their armor set and never return? No, of course not. There are other items there, you will want to help friends, or just xp etc etc. but if the profit motive is taken away from quested items, you may be less likely to permacamp one thing for profit and let others have a taste. Hell, the people permacamping may even be able to move on to new content themselves.
I get that things are competitive, and that's great, I'm just trying to play devils advocate here. I don't think the minority of most hardcore players should be the only opininion expressed. Hence the post. Then again, this is obviously a hot button issue that's not going to be solved. I just feel bad for the people who don't have as much time to invest and so are left out of not only late/end game content but also mid game experiences because they have become profitable, in a sense, due to an exploit.

[odiecat99]

Mqing for profit is just greedy and classic.

[Clark]

ooooooooh yea brother the macho man approves

the game would be better, thats what would happen. people couldnt hoard shit.

:D

[innocent51]

If you start to think about changing that kind of things there is a lot to discuss.
Why only certain class get epics MQ? Why is some of the top tier gear dropable? Why is some of the top tier gear not dropable? Why can people KS the AC off me when they just take it to sell MQ? Why people have to fight on mob spawns? Why the fattest always get fatter?

Its EverQuest, SoE tried to fix it for 14 years and ended up with what's on live, maybe not for the best.

[Hollywood]

The issue of MQing for profit always seems to come up. Many people think that banning it would open up a lot of opportunities as many people are killing stuff just to MQ it. This might be true in some cases, but disabling MQing would have a lot of negative effects also.

First, people on this server would definitely end up just selling looting rights. This is even true for mobs that don't have a 100% chance to drop something. Look at how some guilds will sell looting rights to no-drop items from sky, demon fangs, etc.

Second, if MQing wasn't possible, a lot more times the items might just go to waste. Oh, you didn't have the right class who needed the right thing that dropped, well, I guess it rots. Now, guilds can loot it and MQ it to a guildy later.

I think that, in general, the benefits of MQ outweigh the drawbacks. However, it is certainly an important issue for the server that should be looked at when the impact of Velious on it becomes more apparent.


We already had this discussion.

A) Loot rights selling is far more natural than MQng. MQng is a synthetic method used as a cheap band aid to reduce the amount of loot rights activity. However people forget that loot rights is a player driven action that supports a player driven economy - which is one of the big selling points of old RPG games - or so says Brad McQuaid and all the neck beards whom also support EVE!

B) Who cares if it goes to waste? It's virtual. I'd much rather it go to waste, than watch NBG rules get ignored because technically everyone can use. Or the entire server turn into one big farm zone.


The glaring issue is how Rogean and crew actually envisioned MQ would turn out on P99. They should have known that everything is easier and faster and more simple to get fifteen years later, and thus MQ as a bandaid would not work.
I appreciate it's classic, but, MQ could disappear tomorrow an the server would be better off.

[myriverse]

Allow MQs, disable epic turn ins for sub 50s. Fixed yay. Let me sell the MQs to the really really really lazy suckers.
Yes.

Epic mobs should ridicule anyone under 50 while they beat them into the dirt.