Will the game become too easy once exp penalties are removed?

[Roth]

At first I wasn't really a fan of them, but I began to realize once exp penalties on races and classes are removed doesn't that sort of make the game too easy? A lot of the classes and races that have a penalty do legitimately offer a lot of power. So it sort of removes any penalty for playing an ogre sk for example, which is a very strong race/class combo.

Secondly most groups are probably averaging -20% exp when you take all the group members. That's basically an additional dungeon modifier of experience. I think after this change goes through it will probably be extremely easy to hit 50 on this server because of how much more knowledgeable people are and the level of gear. Thoughts?

[Skittlez]

Still not a better tank than a (anything) Warrior.

[Roth]

Still not a better tank than a (anything) Warrior.

Okay, then an ogre warrior. Does it really make a difference?

[Ofaelol]

Nerf SKs.

[Quineloe]

will mobs be easier to kill without an exp penalty?

[Bazia]

No but it will be once people are Velious geared.

The gear is so good it beyond trivializes anything but the toughest of endgame velious boss encounters.

Anything that isnt one of the tough 3-5 Velious raid bosses will be super, super fucking easy with Vel gear sadly.

[Ciroco]

most groups are probably averaging -20% exp when you take all the group members.

-you might want to read up on the mechanics of group experience if you think this is how it works
-racial experience penalties aren't going away
-is anyone getting a "HAS SCIENCE GONE TOO FAR?" vibe from all these threads?

[Zithax]

My thoughts are you are a deluded masochist. This is the perfect home for you.

[Danth]

Racial penalties don't get removed. In fact, they become more significant because you can no longer share their burden with the rest of your group.

Danth

[innocent51]

I like xp penalties because it adds "something" to the game. However they are completely flawed and none of the racial are gamebreaking. Ikky AC or troll regen gives a slight edge but never makes at raid gear level any noticeable difference.

Ikky SK and Wars have an "Heroic" aspect because of none plate usage. Kina like DE warrior is for super sucky stats or ranger for super sucky everything.
Playing classic EverQuest itself is hard/punishing/long/frustrating for xp penalties to be just the lil crap over the big shit cake. There is no way the game becomes "too easy" because your warriors are now Trolls instead of halflings.

[phacemeltar]

this just means there will be more people competing at endgame, which is fine with me. what saddens me is that the low levels will be sparsely populated.

[Clark]

I like xp penalties because it adds "something" to the game. However they are completely flawed and none of the racial are gamebreaking. Ikky AC or troll regen gives a slight edge but never makes at raid gear level any noticeable difference.

Good post.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, to the OP. Rangers and Paladins will be WAY TO POWERFUL in Velious. LMAO x10.

[Juhstin]

Its about the journey. Keep XP nerfs

[fishingme]

Was curious if there is a velious gear page out ?

[Gaffin 7.0]

ever tried to lvl a troll sk 50-60 ? its like 2 years of grinding no thx

[Aaron]

Pretty sure this is an obvious troll thread.

[Rhambuk]

Ease of game based on exp penalty?

Pretty sure this is an obvious troll thread.

[Funkutron5000]

Please keep Hybrid penalty so I don't feel like a clown getting a paladin to 60 during the penalty period pls/ thx.

[Erati]

Please keep Hybrid penalty so I don't feel like a clown getting a paladin to 60 during the penalty period pls/ thx.

there will always b at least 2 of us...

never forget.

[Rhambuk]

there will always b at least 2 of us...


2 paladins? 2 too many.

[Daldaen]

Time consuming =/= hard.

[Fett]

http://i.imgur.com/j8rHCsz.jpg

Heuheuheu

[skipdog]

Time consuming =/= hard.

[Roth]

Time consuming =/= hard.

This is what makes eq "hard". The game itself is easy, the time you need to invest to complete most things in the game is what makes it how it is.

There are already people getting level 50 in a few weeks.

[skipdog]

This is what makes eq "hard". The game itself is easy, the time you need to invest to complete most things in the game is what makes it how it is.

There are already people getting level 50 in a few weeks.

I see your point. Hard just feels like the wrong word :)

[Daldaen]

Is it hard to count to 1000 out loud?

No, it's just stupidly boring and takes awhile.

Hard is killing Venril Sathir with a single group. Or killing Trakanon with 12. Or clearing VP instead of derp training. These take longer but they also present different challenges due to the length/strategies/mechanics.

Grinding an extra 20 hours in CoM doesn't really pose any new or different challenges.

[myriverse]

Indeed, "hard" is not the right word. "Tedious," "monotonous," "drawn-out," "protracted," etc. are.

[Roth]

Is it hard to count to 1000 out loud?

No, it's just stupidly boring and takes awhile.

Hard is killing Venril Sathir with a single group. Or killing Trakanon with 12. Or clearing VP instead of derp training. These take longer but they also present different challenges due to the length/strategies/mechanics.

Grinding an extra 20 hours in CoM doesn't really pose any new or different challenges.

Are you actually going to argue that the raid content on THIS server especially with the level of gear and knowledge is hard? By that logic wow is harder than everquest because it has more skill based raids. Everquest has ALWAYS been about the journey and the challenges ON the journey. The challenge is what happens when you wipe on the raid encounter and need to figure out how to get your corpses. The most challenging thing for the raid community on this server is figuring out who gets to actually kill the bosses.

I play eq because I enjoy trying to understand and figure out what to do in different scenarios. I like being forced to think WHILE leveling on where to go or what I want to do and how to accomplish it. It is already extremely easy, my only argument was if you make it even faster to level there is no real need to plan anything or commit to anything because no matter what you do you will go up in level without any problems. Obviously the exp penalty is not a big difference, but most of my groups have an sk or a paladin and if I'm able to just level alts super fast it's not really as interesting.

Oh and hey if it's just tedious why even put placeholders in? Let's just make the bosses always spawn every time theyre up. Cause camping anything is not skill based it's just time. Travelling around the world is just time lets put in pok for easier travelling too. Why not?

[Juhstin]

Keep all XP penalties.

[Daldaen]

On this server of course not. There are guilds with 80+ man Zerg forces lol.

But if there were an opportunity for 12 dudes to take on Trakanon it would be tough for any old 12 dudes to pull that off. You'd need some legit dudes who are well geared and have a solid strategy.

[Roth]

On this server of course not. There are guilds with 80+ man Zerg forces lol.

But if there were an opportunity for 12 dudes to take on Trakanon it would be tough for any old 12 dudes to pull that off. You'd need some legit dudes who are well geared and have a solid strategy.

By your logic why not just put planes of power in? It cuts back on travel time and offers more skillful encounters.

[Daldaen]

Holy fuck yes. Best expansion ever. Confirmed. Put a stamp on it.

[Roth]

Holy fuck yes. Best expansion ever. Confirmed. Put a stamp on it.

-.- Well anyways some people play for the immersion classic eq offered. If I wanted a game in the direction you seem to be wanting I would just play eq2 wow or some game with actual skill like dota.

or hey, live eq might be a good one too!

[Daldaen]

No. PoP was quintessential classic shit.

Players killing Gods and Dragons. Epicly long quest chains, extremely unique and powerful items. Content that was in depth. Keying/Flagging that was a huge ordeal.

No expansion will ever match PoP in terms of depth, areas added to game, step-up in challenge, equipment, tradeskills, flagging and lore. If you really get your panties in a bunch about a few PoK books, cry less. You don't have to use them. Feel free to run around all you want and ask a Druid/Wizard for a port to PoK instead of booking.

Sorry but the "PoK books made PoP terrible" argument is so stupid.

[Roth]

No. PoP was quintessential classic shit.

Players killing Gods and Dragons. Epicly long quest chains, extremely unique and powerful items. Content that was in depth. Keying/Flagging that was a huge ordeal.

No expansion will ever match PoP in terms of depth, areas added to game, step-up in challenge, equipment, tradeskills, flagging and lore. If you really get your panties in a bunch about a few PoK books, cry less. You don't have to use them. Feel free to run around all you want and ask a Druid/Wizard for a port to PoK instead of booking.

Sorry I'm going to just have to disagree with you entirely. But thankfully it doesn't matter because nilbog is dedicated to a classic server.

[Gaffin 7.0]

PoP by far was my fav expansion other than velious, it showed who was hardcore from the whiny maggots, people that put in time to get all those flags and backflag for new people, also was very challenging rather than zerging a mob with just hp.

[fadetree]

I'm with Daldaen on PoP, it was a great expansion in general...the stones were a major problem though and really heralded the end of EQ. PoP without stones and without a stupidly high zem in whatever that zone was off of shadowhaven would be great imo.

Yes, I know shadowhaven was luclin.

Sorry but the "PoK books made PoP terrible" argument is so stupid.

Yeah, they were bad but that's no reason to toss the whole deal, especially here where it could be customized a bit.

I wonder if Rogean would consider letting someone fork his code base to set up a sister server...do all teh work to get luclin & pop enabled.

[Tongpow]

naw


PoP was shit

[Daldaen]

Remove stones, make PoK a Druid/wiz port only. Great justice ensues. Best expansion of EQ relived.

[fadetree]

maybe remove or restrict KEI...that really trivialized a lot. That's right, I went there.

[Weekapaug]

"heralded the end of EQ"

I always love when people say this shit. The 15th Anniversary Events just started live last week.

What you mean is the end of EQ that YOU liked. Despite the party line around here, clicky travel doesn't end a game that, to that point, had been expanded 4 times. And has been expanded, what 16 more times since?

Game was awesome at release. Thru Velious. Thru PoP. GoD kind of sucked. But OoW and DoN were awesome. Never been a fan of mercs but played live last fall and games still fun. Just different.

[Roth]

"heralded the end of EQ"

I always love when people say this shit. The 15th Anniversary Events just started live last week.

What you mean is the end of EQ that YOU liked. Despite the party line around here, clicky travel doesn't end a game that, to that point, had been expanded 4 times. And has been expanded, what 16 more times since?

Game was awesome at release. Thru Velious. Thru PoP. GoD kind of sucked. But OoW and DoN were awesome. Never been a fan of mercs but played live last fall and games still fun. Just different.

Yep, the end of eq I liked. That's why i'm playing on a kunark only server and not on live or even eq mac when that was still up or the other private servers with more expansions enabled.

[Asap]

PoP was the best expansion of any MMO I have ever played.

[Weekapaug]

Yep, the end of eq I liked. That's why i'm playing on a kunark only server and not on live or even eq mac when that was still up or the other private servers with more expansions enabled.

Grats. I do too.

But the game didn't end with Velious.

[fadetree]

"heralded the end of EQ"

What you mean is the end of EQ that YOU liked.



Uh, yeah, I thought that was assumed since I was the one speaking. Do I need to put a 'IMO' in front of everything for you?

[Roth]

Grats. I do too.

But the game didn't end with Velious.

I've never understood why being neutral on every possible thing and not admitting to liking or disliking anything has become a virtue. I prefer the game without pok books and where it's not about becoming as op as you possibly can. So why the hell am I not allowed to have an opinion that I think eq WITHOUT pop is better? do you need to be an internet crusader and make sure no one says anything is better than anything else?

[Fett]

"heralded the end of EQ"

I always love when people say this shit. The 15th Anniversary Events just started live last week.

What you mean is the end of EQ that YOU liked. Despite the party line around here, clicky travel doesn't end a game that, to that point, had been expanded 4 times. And has been expanded, what 16 more times since?

Game was awesome at release. Thru Velious. Thru PoP. GoD kind of sucked. But OoW and DoN were awesome. Never been a fan of mercs but played live last fall and games still fun. Just different.

I'm a recently returning player to EQ, I played through Velious, and came back shortly in Luclin/PoP.

I came back to EQ because of the "classic" era nature of P1999. There's a couple things EQ does that go beyond many modern MMOs that I've tried and that's the forced player interaction. you have to interact with people to play this game. You have to ask a wizard/druid for a port. You have to speak to people in auction channel instead of there being an auction house. Etc. I definitely think the PoP books helped ruin the game, because it was one more thing they took away from having to make relationships and make people interact with each other.

MMOs are about interacting with other people. Otherwise you're just playing a single player game. This is just one of the things classic EQ does so well. I would be quite sad if the PoP got added into P1999.

As far as the exp penalty goes. I rolled an SK. I'm not that far yet (only 15). At first the penalty was driving me insane, but by now I'm used to it. I don't feel that strongly either way about it being removed in Velious. I would feel a little bad for everyone else who's leveled a hybrid to 60 already if it was removed and hey, if other people could get to 60 pre-removal, then so can I. I'm not going to complain if it's removed though.

[Roth]

I'm a recently returning player to EQ, I played through Velious, and came back shortly in Luclin/PoP.

I came back to EQ because of the "classic" era nature of P1999. There's a couple things EQ does that go beyond many modern MMOs that I've tried and that's the forced player interaction. you have to interact with people to play this game. You have to ask a wizard/druid for a port. You have to speak to people in auction channel instead of their being an auction house. Etc. I definitely think the PoP books helped ruin the game, because it was one more thing they took away from having to make relationships and make people interact with each other.

MMOs are about interacting with other people. Otherwise you're just playing a single player game. This is just one of the things classic EQ does so well. I would be quite sad if the PoP got added into P1999.

As far as the exp penalty goes. I rolled an SK. I'm not that far yet (only 15). At first the penalty was driving me insane, but by now I'm used to it. I don't feel that strongly either way about it be removed in Velious. I would feel a little bad for everyone else who's leveled a hybrid to 60 already if it was removed and hey, if other people could get to 60 pre-removal, then so can I. I'm not going to complain if it's removed though.

Agreed with basically everything you said. I primarily just made this post to play devils advocate anyways. I'm mostly neutral on the exp penalty either way, I just had a thought that after velious this server will be incredibly easy for a lot of reasons.

[Weekapaug]

I've never understood why being neutral on every possible thing and not admitting to liking or disliking anything has become a virtue. I prefer the game without pok books and where it's not about becoming as op as you possibly can. So why the hell am I not allowed to have an opinion that I think eq WITHOUT pop is better? do you need to be an internet crusader and make sure no one says anything is better than anything else?

No, I happen to be a fan of EQ in all forms (mostly) and that's what I have a need to be a crusader about. I started the game in the 3rd week live. Had 90 days played when my toon hit his first birthday in real time. Loved classic. But loved beyond too.

Have your opinion. But the game didn't "end" or "die" or any of the melodramatic shit that gets bandied about here about post-velious. You just didn't like it. And that's fine. I was there and, personally, loved it all thru about PoR, personally.

People site clicky books as " the end" of the game. Really, what happened was we traded mundane shit like boat travel that had its novelty wear off years earlier, and having to buy ports, for exp mobs that didn't just summon, but also flurried and rampaged. For every thing that got easier, something else got more challenging. During PoP era having a slower wasn't a plus, it became required, for example.

[Daldaen]

I'm a recently returning player to EQ, I played through Velious, and came back shortly in Luclin/PoP.

I came back to EQ because of the "classic" era nature of P1999. There's a couple things EQ does that go beyond many modern MMOs that I've tried and that's the forced player interaction. you have to interact with people to play this game. You have to ask a wizard/druid for a port. You have to speak to people in auction channel instead of their being an auction house. Etc. I definitely think the PoP books helped ruin the game, because it was one more thing they took away from having to make relationships and make people interact with each other.

MMOs are about interacting with other people. Otherwise you're just playing a single player game. This is just one of the things classic EQ does so well. I would be quite sad if the PoP got added into P1999.

As far as the exp penalty goes. I rolled an SK. I'm not that far yet (only 15). At first the penalty was driving me insane, but by now I'm used to it. I don't feel that strongly either way about it be removed in Velious. I would feel a little bad for everyone else who's leveled a hybrid to 60 already if it was removed and hey, if other people could get to 60 pre-removal, then so can I. I'm not going to complain if it's removed though.
That's all good and fine. Until you are anon/role 100% of the time and only talking to your guildmates. Which is what happens to many people on this server. They don't interact at all with other people.


Then they don't understand why I refuse to port their anon/role toons. If you don't want people to interact with you, I don't want to interact with you either. /who all anon Druid and ask them for a port... Oh wait, you can't.

Anon/Role killed interacting with others 100x more than any silly PoK books did.

[Fett]

That's all good and fine. Until you are anon/role 100% of the time and only talking to your guildmates. Which is what happens to many people on this server. They don't interact at all with other people.


Then they don't understand why I refuse to port their anon/role toons. If you don't want people to interact with you, I don't want to interact with you either. /who all anon Druid and ask them for a port... Oh wait, you can't.

Anon/Role killed interacting with others 100x more than any silly PoK books did.

Weren't Anon/Role always in the game? Is that really a fair comparison to make?

[Weekapaug]

Weren't Anon/Role always in the game? Is that really a fair comparison to make?

Yes, always.

There's always been a small but vocal group of players that bitch about it being responsible for everything from lack of groups to the price of gas. Shits classic, as they say.

Ironically, an excellent argument could be made for having everyonr anon being better for community.

[Buns]

I want the exp penalties to go away largely because I started playing EQ1 a few months before Velious, so I never even knew there were exp penalties until P1999. The race penalties make sense to me, but I don't understand at all the reason for class penalties (like how does a Ranger have an advantage over a Druid?). I'm glad they'll be going. Stupid mechanic tbh.

[August]

I loved PoP.
I loved AAs.
I loved the keying, the tradeskilling, the exp zones (fire, earth, hello).


Game is about people. Complaining about removing 1 interaction (reliance on druids/wizards) because of books is stupid. You're assuming that druids/wizards only exist to perform this task for you. Good chance they also want to go out and exp and do stuff as well.

Almost every major MMO has enabled fast travel, and they have enabled it to a way greater degree than the PoK books. You can typically go to the quest hub you want via flight path, etc. At least you only got the 'general area' and still had to run.

People claim it makes the world feel smaller. But question- how many of you actually choose to hoof it from EC tunnel to lguk -? To oasis and to hit up kunark? Or do you port and pay someone for the pleasure?

But it's all moot. Server won't be headed to PoP. I'd love to see some custom content that incorporated the zones, though.

[Fett]

I loved PoP.
I loved AAs.
I loved the keying, the tradeskilling, the exp zones (fire, earth, hello).


Game is about people. Complaining about removing 1 interaction (reliance on druids/wizards) because of books is stupid. You're assuming that druids/wizards only exist to perform this task for you. Good chance they also want to go out and exp and do stuff as well.

Almost every major MMO has enabled fast travel, and they have enabled it to a way greater degree than the PoK books. You can typically go to the quest hub you want via flight path, etc. At least you only got the 'general area' and still had to run.

People claim it makes the world feel smaller. But question- how many of you actually choose to hoof it from EC tunnel to lguk -? To oasis and to hit up kunark? Or do you port and pay someone for the pleasure?

But it's all moot. Server won't be headed to PoP. I'd love to see some custom content that incorporated the zones, though.

You're seeing this from the wrong angle. It's not about the wizard/druid existing only to port you, but instead leaving them with a valuable and useful utility role they wouldn't otherwise have. This game isn't solely about killing stuff and and gaining exp, and as far as I'm concerned, classes having a useful utility role that gives them something to do outside combat is fantastic. RPGs are supposed to be about playing roles, and the journey. This type of mechanic adds to that experience.

[August]

You're seeing this from the wrong angle. It's not about the wizard/druid existing only to port you, but instead leaving them with a valuable and useful utility role they wouldn't otherwise have. This game isn't solely about killing stuff and and gaining exp, and as far as I'm concerned, classes having a useful utility role that gives them something to do outside combat is fantastic. RPGs are supposed to be about playing roles, and the journey. This type of mechanic adds to that experience.

I understand both sides of the coin. I used to make a killing during PoP era due to translocation spells on my wizard.

The problem is that you've been given a hard dependency. When the world is so large, if you don't have a self-serve travel mechanism, you are forcing people to either

a) beg people for ports
b) run really long distances.

I understand the desire to be needed, wanted, hell even loved. However travel is something that everyone must do in this game, and to make one part of it so integral, with the world so large, it becomes overwhelming. There is a reason they implemented books. The game still required groups to do even generically hard content (bothunder, povalor, ponightmare - not to mention elemental plane farming).

[Roth]

I understand both sides of the coin. I used to make a killing during PoP era due to translocation spells on my wizard.

The problem is that you've been given a hard dependency. When the world is so large, if you don't have a self-serve travel mechanism, you are forcing people to either

a) beg people for ports
b) run really long distances.

I understand the desire to be needed, wanted, hell even loved. However travel is something that everyone must do in this game, and to make one part of it so integral, with the world so large, it becomes overwhelming. There is a reason they implemented books. The game still required groups to do even generically hard content (bothunder, povalor, ponightmare - not to mention elemental plane farming).

I just really fail to understand why people play on a classic server but don't really want a classic server. If there was fast travel enabled I would probably still play but I would be annoyed. I like being forced to travel or find a port or anything of that nature. Many people are here because they like it this way and then you have the nerve to tell them it just doesn't matter? To you maybe fast travel is w/e but A LOT of people like it this way and that's why they play here. It's really annoying for someone to say "just don't use the books or it doesn't really matter get over it". People are on this server because they want that so don't tell them what they're supposed to like or care about.

[Pinolian]

If you want a game where its easy to level, the content from 1-60 (90) is largely ignored, people do not talk in groups because they are spamming "skills", then GTFO and go play WOW.

Keep the game hard, keep it slow. The leveling is part of the journey. If leveling bothers you so much then go play a different game. Why is it so hard for you to earn something, instead of complaining that its tedious. The Tedious that you are complaining about is what makes this game different.

The grind, the tedious, the difficulty is why you came back here to begin with. You came back because you actually felt like you accomplished something when you dinged. You met new friends along the way and shared their victories and losses, adversity and successes. You know what, screw it, why not let our devs here make some cash for the server and lets sell level 60 toons! That way you can skip tedious for a few bucks. If you are gonna do it, may as well go all the way I say..

The hard is what makes it great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNeWa8zH3_8

[baalzy]

1-60 is still a pretty long time even as a cleric/druid that have no penalties and a minor bonus as best. I mean seriously, how long would it take a druid to get to 60 100% solo? How many hours would it take a cleric to get to 60 assuming they immediately get a group that and the group kills with 100% efficiency until the cleric logs out? In the most efficient xp gaining scenario possible (without flat-out powerleveling via a bard or something stupid) I still bet it would take more than 200 hours.

How is making that journey equal length for paladins/rangers/bards/someSKs making the game 'too easy'?

All it really does is allow hybrids the chance to get into groups more often and actually experience the game because people will be less concerned with the penalty. Sure, a ranger may not be as useful as a rogue in certain party arrangements but now you're not worrying about an 11% drop in xp per kill so maybe you will invite them and bask in their glorious utility.

The premise behind the OP is pretty stupid and weak.

[gwideon]

I understand both sides of the coin. I used to make a killing during PoP era due to translocation spells on my wizard.

The problem is that you've been given a hard dependency. When the world is so large, if you don't have a self-serve travel mechanism, you are forcing people to either

a) beg people for ports
b) run really long distances.
C) GROUP WITH A WIZARD OR DRUID

I understand the desire to be needed, wanted, hell even loved. However travel is something that everyone must do in this game, and to make one part of it so integral, with the world so large, it becomes overwhelming. There is a reason they implemented books. The game still required groups to do even generically hard content (bothunder, povalor, ponightmare - not to mention elemental plane farming).

ftfy

[August]

I just really fail to understand why people play on a classic server but don't really want a classic server. If there was fast travel enabled I would probably still play but I would be annoyed. I like being forced to travel or find a port or anything of that nature. Many people are here because they like it this way and then you have the nerve to tell them it just doesn't matter? To you maybe fast travel is w/e but A LOT of people like it this way and that's why they play here. It's really annoying for someone to say "just don't use the books or it doesn't really matter get over it". People are on this server because they want that so don't tell them what they're supposed to like or care about.

Didn't say 'just don't use the books or it doesn't really matter get over it'.

You're also conflating the issue of fast travel. I'm not saying put in books on classic content (no PoP). I'm saying the books arose out of necessity in PoP because of the expansion of the world. It's simply a matter of scale.

Also your 'failure to understand' is somewhat mindboggling considering you said you'd play here if it had fast travel, you'd just be annoyed. If it existed, with a large population, I'd play a PoP server in a heartbeat. I think there are way more things to do (AAs, tradeskills being worth something, keying for raids) at 60 than there are here. That being said, this server has a huge population and exists in an era that I also enjoyed playing in. That doesn't mean I also don't like PoP (or rather, some aspects of luclin/PoP).

[Tasslehofp99]

I thought racial penalties remained in the game for velious, while class exp penalties were removed?

[fadetree]

Almost every major MMO has enabled fast travel, and they have enabled it to a way greater degree than the PoK books


Yes, and I hate them, and am playing here. So are you. I think the reduction of travel requirements is bad for the game. A game, ANY game, is about what you CAN'T do easily, not what you can.

And no, before anyone brings this up, I don't think making a game arbitrarily hard in unreasonable ways would be the best game of all.

[baalzy]

I thought racial penalties remained in the game for velious, while class exp penalties were removed?

This is true. Additionally xp split in a group gets changed to give out the xp based on your lvl compared to the rest of the group, instead of your XP total. This means a level 20 Ogre SK will earn the same amount of xp per kill as a level 20 Halfing Warrior. The Halfling Warrior will just hit level 21 faster than the SK.

[August]

Yes, and I hate them, and am playing here. So are you. I think the reduction of travel requirements is bad for the game. A game, ANY game, is about what you CAN'T do easily, not what you can.

And no, before anyone brings this up, I don't think making a game arbitrarily hard in unreasonable ways would be the best game of all.

And again, I'm playing on a kunark/velious/classic server, without travel, as it should be. If Luclin/PoP were introduced, we'd need to have a conversation.

[fadetree]

And again, I'm playing on a kunark/velious/classic server, without travel, as it should be. If Luclin/PoP were introduced, we'd need to have a conversation.

YEAH. So...wait weren't we arguing? Did you take evasive maneuvers?

[August]

YEAH. So...wait weren't we arguing? Did you take evasive maneuvers?

No, what happened was that I made a post about liking PoP and that the excuse for not liking PoP based on books was lousy. Then selective quoting, reading, and general pitchfork-inducing behavior occurred.

[Weekapaug]

Didn't say 'just don't use the books or it doesn't really matter get over it'.

You're also conflating the issue of fast travel. I'm not saying put in books on classic content (no PoP). I'm saying the books arose out of necessity in PoP because of the expansion of the world. It's simply a matter of scale.

Also your 'failure to understand' is somewhat mindboggling considering you said you'd play here if it had fast travel, you'd just be annoyed. If it existed, with a large population, I'd play a PoP server in a heartbeat. I think there are way more things to do (AAs, tradeskills being worth something, keying for raids) at 60 than there are here. That being said, this server has a huge population and exists in an era that I also enjoyed playing in. That doesn't mean I also don't like PoP (or rather, some aspects of luclin/PoP).

Exactly.

I don't know why people insist on mistaking an appreciation for later eras of the game for a desire to have it here. Nobody has remotely suggested that we should have Luclin or PoP here. Removing the hybrid exp penalties, the most retarded design decision in the history of this game in light of the other compounding hybrid penalties, as acknowledged and removed from the game by Brad McQuade himself during velious, has exactly NOTHING to do with clicky books, portals or any of the later era changes that these people claim made the sky fell and "ended" the game. It's absurd.

Like anything, the classic era has its positives and negatives. As did later eras. But EQ didn't suddenly "die" or become stupid easy once clicky books went in as a lot of these people suggest. It just changed, is all. The challenges shifted. That's it. But in many ways to more interesting things. Have you had to grind AA here to be able to do your job? Dealt with any rampaging or flurrying mobs lately? Have you had to have a curse cured off of you here, the spell scroll only available from end game raid mobs? No? Oh, I forget, you have bigger fish to fry...riding boats and buying ports. Its ridiculous.

The game has always been great, arguably the best mmo across all eras compared to any other game. And that's what constantly astounds and amuses me when these conversations come up here. Statistically, most of these people left EQ for the AOL of mmos, WoW, probably bitching about how hard EQ was at the time, it took them years to realize what complete shyte it was, and they came back to find that the game had changed and passed them by or, worse, went to EQ2. They discover p99 a decade later and now, suddenly, everything post velious completely sucks.

Seriously, I ask anyone who played live classic and hated everything after, what were YOU playing instead that was better? Because there are a lot of us who loved classic EQ but also lover the later eras because we realized in the first weeks and months of the alternatives that EQ was still the best game available. What were YOU playing that was better?

Sue us for happening to have enjoyed it. Get over yourselves.

[Velerin]

As the world grew and grew in EQ, you really just needed faster travel options. I don't think the spires/books "ruined" anything but was really just necessary.
The thing I missed the most with PoP was chilling in cities and seeing people. Everyone just hung out in PoK and the fantasy rpg feel was gone. Factions became meaningless etc.
The 2 things that got me hooked on p1999 was people in the cities again like the old days and no boxing. Boxing is what ruined MMOs.

[Artaenc]

Indeed, "hard" is not the right word. "Tedious," "monotonous," "drawn-out," "protracted," etc. are.

Yes I agree, penalties for certain classes is pointless.

For those of you that want to play velious and keep the exp penalty that would be like buying a Lamborghini and then changing out the engine with a rice burner.

[NextGenesis88]

Agreed with basically everything you said. I primarily just made this post to play devils advocate anyways. I'm mostly neutral on the exp penalty either way, I just had a thought that after velious this server will be incredibly easy for a lot of reasons.

I am fine with having XP penalties, but you have to admit the amount is pretty drastic. I don't believe it should have ever gone over 40% the most. Yes, it's nice having the extra abilities with hybrids, but it's just not balanced when you look at the extra abilities and the related penalties IMO.

[NextGenesis88]

As the world grew and grew in EQ, you really just needed faster travel options. I don't think the spires/books "ruined" anything but was really just necessary.
The thing I missed the most with PoP was chilling in cities and seeing people. Everyone just hung out in PoK and the fantasy rpg feel was gone. Factions became meaningless etc.
The 2 things that got me hooked on p1999 was people in the cities again like the old days and no boxing. Boxing is what ruined MMOs.

I believe pok books were added in response to the community wanting something like this? Or maybe it was the min maxers, or the hardcore who were on the forums all the time making the most noise? Either way, I am pretty sure this is why it happened. I started in LoY and I LOVED EQ. I didn't have experience without PoK books and coming here was my first time in classic. Nevertheless I love it here and I see where people are coming from first hand. Regardless of whether it was good or bad, PoK is a very nostalgic place for me and the music hits me evertime. :) I would definitely be down on a server that stops at PoP, but not this one. It would be cool to find one with the same quality and attention to detail as this one, but even without one I am perfectly content in experiencing classic for myself after only hearing epic stories and legends. It's very amazing to be able to experience classic for the first time.

[Swish]

I think extra pras/some title should be assigned to people who made it to 60 with a troll/iksar/ogre SK before the penalties drop (which isn't day 1 of Velious I should say).

[Aborath]

Time has made the game too easy.

[stonez138]

POP was my favorite expansion. BUT having said that I think they should have limited travel to PoK to lvl 46+ like other planes.

[NextGenesis88]

POP was my favorite expansion. BUT having said that I think they should have limited travel to PoK to lvl 46+ like other planes.

Actually a pretty cool idea.

[jarshale]

If you think the game will be too easy with XP penalties removed, just kill your character every once in a while.

[Clark]

Time has made the game too easy.

[fadetree]

No, what happened was that I made a post about liking PoP and that the excuse for not liking PoP based on books was lousy. Then selective quoting, reading, and general pitchfork-inducing behavior occurred.

Man, I see none of the above happening. I quoted you, but its not a 'selective quote', it's typical of your argument. It seems to me that you are getting irritated about people not agreeing with you when you have delivered up your opinion. I think your opinion is perfectly valid, I just don't agree with it.

[Victorio]

But question- how many of you actually choose to hoof it from EC tunnel to lguk -? To oasis and to hit up kunark? Or do you port and pay someone for the pleasure?

I always hoof it to lguk. Who needs to use the boat though when you can OT hammer? (Which I ground faction for using the braids. No charm.)

[Adamas]

Remove stones, make PoK a Druid/wiz port only. Great justice ensues. Best expansion of EQ relived.

Yeah I like it