Light blue mobs

[mistersuits]

What is the XP penalty/loss for light blue con mobs? Is it a flat percentage?

[fuji]

Light blue mobs were not classic EQ WTF?

[guineapig]

Very good question.

Since there was no such thing as light blue con then we need to find out if those mobs back in classic would have been blue or green con. If they were blue con than there shouldn't be any sort of extra nerf to them.

They should simply be giving the same exp as the lowest blue con in the game was back in 1999.

[Itchybottom]

High green still yielded experience.

[fuji]

Very good question.

Since there was no such thing as light blue con then we need to find out if those mobs back in classic would have been blue or green con. If they were blue con than there shouldn't be any sort of extra nerf to them.

They should simply be giving the same exp as the lowest blue con in the game was back in 1999.

Are there light blue mobs in p1999? If there are, that shit needs to be taken out, ruins my nostalgia.

[guineapig]

High green still yielded experience.

And still does on this server as well as on live.

So that would leave me to believe that light blue mobs were in fact dark blue in classic and should not have an extra exp nerf. It's the exp yielding green con mobs that should (and already do) have the exp penalty.

[Bumamgar]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any.

The con-ranges are client dependent, and are set much larger than they were in classic. As such, light blue mobs on this server shouldn't give any XP at all, as they are well below the level range of even the "high greens" that gave XP on live back in 1999.

Instead of making them give no XP and having to deal with the outcry, we dramatically reduced the XP that they give.

[Mady]

From what I understood, dark blue mobs had a very large range and they separted them out. Light blue were lower lvl dark blue mobs.

[Messianic]

On p1999, I've gained xp from Pumas, willowisps, Grizzly bears, and silvermist wolves, all of which were green (levels 16/17).

If memory and perception serves, light blue was introduced partially as a way to distinguish high green from etc greens (as it affects adds, xp, etc), but some high greens on p1999, even with the light blue con system, give xp - so the difference was in labels, not in the actual exp you gained from the mob.

Quad kiting high greens/light blues was always decent exp because of such low resist %'s and the low mana overhead.

[Enderenter]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any.



I remember killing a few greens that gave the "You have gained experience!" message. I don't remember where, and I may be misremembering...

[Lazortag]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any.

The con-ranges are client dependent, and are set much larger than they were in classic. As such, light blue mobs on this server shouldn't give any XP at all, as they are well below the level range of even the "high greens" that gave XP on live back in 1999.

Instead of making them give no XP and having to deal with the outcry, we dramatically reduced the XP that they give.

At level 39 or 40, centaur archers were green (I think?) and giving exp.

edit: honestly the list is a bit too large for this thread.

[Seritaph]

I haven't really left Everfrost much, but greens give no exp, and light blues give me some, but at a reduced rate. I'm able to find some blues at level 13 there, but most mobs are either yellow, red, green or light blue, so I end up tagging quite a few lights waiting for the real blues to respawn.

Not complaining or looking for change, just sharing personal observation.

[Bumamgar]

There were multiple changes to the con system over the years.

The first change was similar to what you mention, they added light blue and it's level range was set such that it overlapped the "high greens" that gave XP, and extended the lower range of XP giving mobs. This was done late Velious right before Luclin launched.

Later, they expanded the range again (PoP era as I recall) so that higher level players could still gain XP in older zones like SolB.

A lot of research went into the XP changes, and it was discovered that the current con level ranges are quite a bit larger than they should be for 1999 era EQ. The con range for a level 50 character has mobs up to 14 levels lower than the player conning dark blue, and mobs 15 to 18 levels beneath the player conning light blue. On live in 1999, a mob 15 levels below you would grant no XP. As stated above, instead of simply making Light Blue "the new green" and have it grant no XP, we drastically reduced the XP awarded for Light Blue mobs. You can still gain XP and level up on Light Blues if you want, but it'll be a lot slower than it was before the XP fixes went live.

[Messianic]

There were multiple changes to the con system over the years.

The first change was similar to what you mention, they added light blue and it's level range was set such that it overlapped the "high greens" that gave XP, and extended the lower range of XP giving mobs. This was done late Velious right before Luclin launched.

Later, they expanded the range again (PoP era as I recall) so that higher level players could still gain XP in older zones like SolB.

A lot of research went into the XP changes, and it was discovered that the current con level ranges are quite a bit larger than they should be for 1999 era EQ. The con range for a level 50 character has mobs up to 14 levels lower than the player conning dark blue, and mobs 15 to 18 levels beneath the player conning light blue. On live in 1999, a mob 15 levels below you would grant no XP. As stated above, instead of simply making Light Blue "the new green" and have it grant no XP, we drastically reduced the XP awarded for Light Blue mobs. You can still gain XP and level up on Light Blues if you want, but it'll be a lot slower than it was before the XP fixes went live.

That makes total sense - thanks for the historical info and explanation :) It certainly helps...

[Mady]

This is from Patch Message dated Sept. 19, 2006

Linc: http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/game_updates.vm?date=9/19/2006

"We have introduced a new con color, dark blue, which represents a range of blue con NPCs that give a bonus to their experience due to being very close to your level, generally within 5 levels. The concept of a dark blue con NPC has existed in EQ for a while now, but we've decided to change the con system to visually include this range so you can visually see when an NPC falls into this "sweet spot". To properly display a different shade of blue, we've had to reorder the cons a little bit. From trivial to highest con, the colors are now:

- Gray - This creature is trivial to you and will give you no experience for killing it.
- Green - This creature is not much of a threat, but will still give you some experience.
- Blue - This creature is below your level, but high enough level to give you experience.
- Dark Blue - This creature is below your level, but close enough to provide a solid challenge and gives you more experience than normal blue cons.
- White - This creature is the same level as you
- Yellow - This creature is slightly above your level.
- Red - This creature is well above your level."

But from a patch message I saw dated Feb. 13, 2002 it stated that characters under lvl 8 would no longer see Lt. Blue con mobs. http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=722 here.

Could not find anything earlier than that mentioning con color changes.

*shrug dunno.

[Bumamgar]

Yes, that was just one of many changes to the con system over the years (that one in particular was linked to TSS expansion).

[Mady]

Here it is, as usual I am wrong on how I remember the old days. I blame it on beer and pot.

From Nov. 7, 2002 patch notes:

"- We have changed the way the /consider command works. We have added a
'light blue' area between green and blue. NPCs that used to /consider
green but gave experience will now /consider light blue, as well as
NPCs of slightly lower level than those greens. You will always get
experience for something that is light blue. You will not receive
experience for greens. At the same time, by including lower level NPCs
in the light blue /consider, we have increased the range of lower level
NPCs that will grant experience. This will be most noticeable for
characters of higher level."

from http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-2.html here.

[guineapig]

The way you get exp from mobs is the same as the range in which you can exp with other players.

In other words a level 50 player should still be able to get some (albeit very little) exp from a level 34 mob. Level 34 being the lowest blue range (light blue on live, high end green on classic).

So at 50 you can get exp from mobs 16 levels lower than you.


mob level x 1.5 = highest level a player can be to get exp from the mob (ie: light blue con)

[Aldon]

Young Goblin Shaman, Young Goblin Wizard and Young Goblin are exp giving greens in soldunga at level 30. Just tested.

[Atern]

From what I understood, dark blue mobs had a very large range and they separted them out. Light blue were lower lvl dark blue mobs.

This.

[mistersuits]

You can still gain XP and level up on Light Blues if you want, but it'll be a lot slower than it was before the XP fixes went live.

Is the percentage of XP reduction on Light Blues like the secret ingredient in Big Macs? Or is it possible to divulge? :)

[Bumamgar]

The way you get exp from mobs is the same as the range in which you can exp with other players.

In other words a level 50 player should still be able to get some (albeit very little) exp from a level 34 mob. Level 34 being the lowest blue range (light blue on live, high end green on classic).

So at 50 you can get exp from mobs 16 levels lower than you.


mob level x 1.5 = highest level a player can be to get exp from the mob (ie: light blue con)

If you have any evidence that this was actually true on Live, circa 1999, I'd love to see it.

[UrsusMajor]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any.

The con-ranges are client dependent, and are set much larger than they were in classic. As such, light blue mobs on this server shouldn't give any XP at all, as they are well below the level range of even the "high greens" that gave XP on live back in 1999.

Instead of making them give no XP and having to deal with the outcry, we dramatically reduced the XP that they give.

At 32 I was gaining xp from green Ogres in West Karana. I thought it was probably due to the fact I was grouped with a level 31 druid at the time and those mobs were Light Blue to him. Ogre Shaman were still Blue and Goonda was yellow to me at 32.

[guineapig]

If you have any evidence that this was actually true on Live, circa 1999, I'd love to see it.

Once again I ask you. Do you have evidence that it wasn't true?

You keep nerfing stuff saying "prove me wrong". You seriously need to start posting evidence that proves you right before you nerf it.

Exp has always worked the same when considering the level disparity between player and mob as it has been when it came to group exp rules. It's very easy to test at lower levels.

a level 8 player can get exp with a level 12 player but not a level 13.
A level 12 player can get exp from a level 8 mob but not a level 7 mob.

It's that simple. In classic this used to be high end green. For simplicity sake they changed it to light blue. Honestly is was super dumb for them to ever use green to represent exp and exp-less mobs. Made no sense at all.

[Humerox]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any..

As late as yesterday, "hi" green cons in Unrest were still giving XP.

[guineapig]

High green cons everywhere give exp if you are high enough level. I remember getting exp off Cyclopses right after I dinged and they became green. The amount was minuscule but it was there. Pretty sure all zones will give you an insignificant amount of exp on mobs that just turned green.

[Arclanz]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any.

The con-ranges are client dependent, and are set much larger than they were in classic. As such, light blue mobs on this server shouldn't give any XP at all, as they are well below the level range of even the "high greens" that gave XP on live back in 1999.

Instead of making them give no XP and having to deal with the outcry, we dramatically reduced the XP that they give.

Hey Buma! Love the server. The heart spiders in guk give my lvl 20 enchanter xp even when they are green. Tho I've only killed a few of the green ones. Gorrbasher the 23 sk was bogarting the spiders last night and most of them must be green to him. But spiders do drop cheap gems that sell for coin.

[guineapig]

I guess I should mention that exp changes happened a few times over the years for various reasons. At one point they extended the blue mob range in order to help people rind AA's then they did a nerf on that.

The level cap being increased to 60 also came with changes to the way exp worked. At level 60 you could gain exp from mobs somewhere between 45 and 48 (conflicting sources).

Level 45 would seem to fit the following equation:

(current level) x 3/4 (current level)
This also matches the lowest level player you can group with and still share exp with them.

My guess would be that 45-48 in this case would be the exp penalty or light blue range.

[vincin]

If you are reading this you just wasted 4 seconds of your life




IMPORTANT!! "If you are reading this you just wasted another 3 seconds"

[Messianic]

If you are reading this you just wasted 4 seconds of your life

IMPORTANT!! "If you are reading this you just wasted another 3 seconds"

No, I wasted 1 second reading the whole thing and about 5-10 posting this reply.

[Bumamgar]

Once again I ask you. Do you have evidence that it wasn't true?

You keep nerfing stuff saying "prove me wrong". You seriously need to start posting evidence that proves you right before you nerf it.

Not to you I don't. The simple fact is, you are wrong. The level range of mobs that gives XP has changed numerous times on Live over the years. There have been examples of that post IN THIS THREAD if you'd read it. Before any changes were made to XP, the developers as a whole discussed and researched the changes. I am not going to, nor do I have to, go back a month and dig up that research and post it here to prove it to you. The research was done to the satisfaction of the developers as a group.

That being said, we are human, and none of us have time machines to go back to 1999 and log into live and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

As such, if you want it to change, the burden of proof is on YOU.

[Ravhin]

Despite the disagreement over how con colors and exp should work, can someone please post how it currently works?

I.e. where does the green, light blue, blue con separation occur as a function of player level?

And, what special exp penalties occur for light blue/green mobs?

[Malinrol]

How bout this;

Why dont we just say that some stuff gives xp, and some stuff doesn't. That would put this argument at a close.

[guineapig]

As stated above, instead of simply making Light Blue "the new green" and have it grant no XP, we drastically reduced the XP awarded for Light Blue mobs. You can still gain XP and level up on Light Blues if you want, but it'll be a lot slower than it was before the XP fixes went live.

light blue penalty used to be 50% on live. Not certain what it is here. But the rest is explained in the above quote.

As far as the calculation goes, I'm not certain but Bumamgar's explanation is very close to my results at level 50 at least.
He mentioned dark blue 14 levels below you at level 50.
Light blue 15-18 levels below you.
This is how it currently is on this server to my understanding.

The (level) x (3/4 level) formula equals 16 levels below you at 50,
which happens to be right in the middle of that 14-18 level range.

So whatever the real formula is it seems to be close to this.

[mmiles8]

Not to you I don't. The simple fact is, you are wrong. The level range of mobs that gives XP has changed numerous times on Live over the years. There have been examples of that post IN THIS THREAD if you'd read it. Before any changes were made to XP, the developers as a whole discussed and researched the changes. I am not going to, nor do I have to, go back a month and dig up that research and post it here to prove it to you. The research was done to the satisfaction of the developers as a group.

That being said, we are human, and none of us have time machines to go back to 1999 and log into live and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

As such, if you want it to change, the burden of proof is on YOU.

This kind of mentality doesn't sit well with folks. To be honest, it's flat out incensing. All of the other devs require evidence before making a change in either direction and certainly don't talk down to folks like this. It's an immense double standard to state that your personal recollection is law and that evidence is required to undo any of your personal fixes that didn't require any evidence to institute in the first place.

When you have no standard of proof other than your own confidence in your own knowledge, it's a slippery slope. When you made your exp changes, you claimed that the hell levels were a secret and invented an entire conspiracy theory involving verant denying their existence.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=95427&postcount=139

That took all of 5 minutes with google to debunk.

[Messianic]

This kind of mentality doesn't sit well with folks. To be honest, it's flat out incensing. All of the other devs require evidence before making a change in either direction and certainly don't talk down to folks like this. It's an immense double standard to state that your personal recollection is law and that evidence is required to undo any of your personal fixes that didn't require any evidence to institute in the first place.

When you have no standard of proof other than your own confidence in your own knowledge, it's a slippery slope. When you made your exp changes, you claimed that the hell levels were a secret and invented an entire conspiracy theory involving verant denying their existence.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=95427&postcount=139

That took all of 5 minutes with google to debunk.

I find Bum's position quite reasonable. I don't see the point in demanding that he cough up evidence of a group dev decision just to satisfy a player's challenge to him. If they want to prove it, they can, but since it's already in place, it has its own weight (since it is that way based on a group dev decision apparently) until disproven.

I also find attitudes of player = GM quite unreasonable.

[Elissa]

Not to you I don't. The simple fact is, you are wrong. The level range of mobs that gives XP has changed numerous times on Live over the years. There have been examples of that post IN THIS THREAD if you'd read it. Before any changes were made to XP, the developers as a whole discussed and researched the changes. I am not going to, nor do I have to, go back a month and dig up that research and post it here to prove it to you. The research was done to the satisfaction of the developers as a group.

That being said, we are human, and none of us have time machines to go back to 1999 and log into live and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

As such, if you want it to change, the burden of proof is on YOU.

With changes that are discussed amongst devs, researched independently amongst devs and ultimately implemented, would it be so hard to toss the community a couple links or documents or something that show where the dev conclusion ultimately came from for some of the "bigger" changes?

I'm not questioning its validity, but if the information is out there (which it must be for the change to have been made), what's the harm in helping people find it?

Edit: A month later I get that that's annoying to dig up, but going forward for bigger changes, as they're made when the research is at hand, I mean.

[Enderenter]

If you find a green con mob that gives XP, let me know, as there shouldn't be any.

Just FYI, killed 2 green con Frogloks in Upper Guk today that gave me XP.

It's not the first time by my recollection that this has happened.

[toddfx]

Just confirmed that a green "a sand scarab" gave me experience in NRo at level 18.