Women of Norrath, what's your experience?

[sox7d]

I recently got in a discussion with some of my friends about how awful sour grapes antagonizing neckbeards and white-knight neckbeards are in WoW and LoL. Was wondering what sort of things you guys face or if you have any funny/disturbing stories about being female in EQ?

[Fame]

You get free pixels and attention already, isn't that enough for you whores?

[khanable]

lol

[sox7d]

You get free pixels and attention already, isn't that enough for you whores?

Lol, you seriously think women have an easier time in online games?

[Tasslehofp99]

Lol, you seriously think women have an easier time in online games?

Do you not think they do?

[Fame]

Lol, you seriously think women have an easier time in online games?

I named my character lady

[NachtMystium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBoeMF4FYs

watch this and then look at the name of the person who created the video.
and that is their logic.

there are bound to be immature remarks like "omg u r a gurl that plays eq omg so kewl" but these people are the white knights you're referring to and really not that prevalent in p99 honestly... I think... but then again, maybe youre right. might as well milk it for all it's worth.

[Ajkuhuun]

TLDR Get your big girl pants on and play.

To be honest I haven't really experienced much of a difference this go around in EQ, but when I first started gaming oh 15 odd years ago the difference between the sexes was a lot more defined in games. Girls were treated as if (generally) they couldn't be trusted with important roles, so were often lumped into jobs which wouldn't matter if they weren't done or weren't done correctly. If you weren't lumped into that category, you were tossed into support. Now before I get jumped on when someone inevitable misreads the previous two lines, let me just say not important and support are NOT the same thing , however, most girls were confined to those two roles at least on my server. Myself I played the majority of live as a warrior, and made the mistake of letting folks know I was a girl. Despite my ability I was often passed over for males, because at the time, the leadership role of the warrior was very much a male dominated class.

As a social experiment, I rerolled as a male character, also a tank, and was immediately treated with a higher level of respect than my female toon. I was complimented often on my abilities, I was asked to tank raid mobs by pugs rather than being looked over as I was on my well known RL female toon, I was given important roles in raids whereas my other toon was never given that opportunity. At the time, as I said 15 years ago, the roles were very clearly defined.

That's not to say that there weren't perks to being female. If you screwed up it was attributed to you essentially being a girl and not that you just plain fucked up, gear was handed out more readily even my complete strangers, and overall folks had a nicer attitude towards you. I was personally one of those players that rejected being handed anything, I wanted to earn what I had on my own, and was very much against hand outs, so I had less experience in free loots part of being a girl.

Fast forward to WoW and the roles definitely began to become less defined, we now see streams of girls competing amazingly well in PvP, battle of the sexes raid races where females outperform males, female raid leaders are more common as well as guild leaders. However some of the same obstacles are still there, it's harder to be recognized for talent as a female in a raid force, even if the damage meters or skill recaps prove you to be out-dpsing or out performing your male counterparts and more important roles are often handed out to men. Some top guilds even shy away from guilding females, and I hate to admit it but often rightly so. A large portion of girls, you know the ones...(tee hee, ewhoreing, flirty, etc.) cause a lot of drama in a guild. Lord knows even as a woman I'm guilty of sexism when it came to hiring on new recruits when I ran a raid guild back in WoW. Often when I attempted to coach girls on how to become better at their class I was greeted with the "I'm a perfect unique little snowflake" syndrome (I don't want to use a gun because I just like how my bow looks...was one reason I was actually given by a girl player). Those of us who played WoW especially on the high end know that there is little room for customization at the high end, it's very cookie cutter in terms of build and gear, and I ran into these problems often while dealing with girls. Also the potential for drama is greater, as ewhoring at some point rears it's ugly head in any guild and you end up with gquits, animosity and even gkicks to resolve the situation after it inevitably blows up. These are a few of the issues even now which girl gamers seem to still have issues with in terms of bettering their reputation in games as a whole.

I feel girls need to pick their battles, you won't find me on the "omg string bikini I'm so offended" bandwagon. We're playing high fantasy games and like it or not much of the classic fantasy art we see depicts women in these kind of outfits, to be fair you don't see guys crying because He-Man's outfit and build somehow damages their self esteem. Lots of girls will (and have) jump me for this, but if I am playing a game my toon better have an amazing body and awesome armor (or lack thereof), it's aesthetically pleasing to me, as well as the majority of folks who play.

When it comes to the "white knights" who cry sexism on behalf of girls, I'm going to give you a bit of advice, You look like an idiot. We're big girls, if there's an issue we'll fight our own battles, you just look like you're trying to get into someone's pants and truth be told to those girls who are impressed by your valor you've just got tossed in the friends category. You're doing women a disservice by fighting their battles.

Like I said in the TLDR portion at the beginning of this post, put your big girl pants on and play if you're going to play, don't hide behind being a girl to get free loot or make up for your fuck ups, own them, improve, and become an asset to the game. Only when we all start doing that will we make true progress in the world of gaming, as many of us have been doing for years.

PS Cospay doesn't equal consent is fucking stupid, if you don't want someone to hit on you don't dress like a fucking whore. If it was some hot guy and not some comicon nerd coming up to flirt with you, you wouldn't have a problem with it, so cut the bullshit and dress as Samus if you don't want to get hit on (and not zero suit Samus..)

Let the perfect little snowflake girl flames begin~

[Fame]

Stop shaving your armpits and shut the fuck up. Happy?

[JPMorgan]

As a social experiment, I rerolled as a male character, also a tank, and was immediately treated with a higher level of respect than my female toon. I was complimented often on my abilities, I was asked to tank raid mobs by pugs rather than being looked over as I was on my well known RL female toon, I was given important roles in raids whereas my other toon was never given that opportunity.

I'm sure the fact that you were playing a tank for the second time through had absolutely no impact on this.

[Tiggles]

Girls are bad at MMO's and they cause drama that blows up guilds. This is why professional WoW guilds have policies of inviting female members.

[Ajkuhuun]

I'm sure the fact that you were playing a tank for the second time through had absolutely no impact on this.

Normally I'd agree with you, because it makes sense. However in the many years I've played I've done this in reverse and achieved the same results, obviously the difference wasn't quite as pronounced as the years wore on, but still definitely there.

[JPMorgan]

Normally I'd agree with you, because it makes sense. However in the many years I've played I've done this in reverse and achieved the same results, obviously the difference wasn't quite as pronounced as the years wore on, but still definitely there.

I am curious about your experiment being conducted in reverse. Did you openly state that you were a female in RL on your female toon? I mean, let's be honest, most men assume most female characters are being played by men. I think this plays into why you may have experienced discrimination at all: the ratio of men to women in MMOs (especially in classic EQ) would be considerably skewed. Less women players inevitably means less skilled women players.

I find your disposition convincing. But, I think a lot of people would be quick to point at their race, gender, religion, sexual preference etc. as a source of discrimination, before admitting that they simply aren't as good as they think they are. However, in 1999 I suppose it's easier to imagine a more hostile environment. I also think it's important to consider an alternative source of this treatment. As others have so eloquently said in previous posts: you get free pixels, you get attention for no meaningful reason, and your personal behavior can literally destroy the social fabric of a guild.

[Ajkuhuun]

In my reverse experiments I openly stated I was a girl, in some form or another, while on the male characters I simply didn't correct anyone.

And I get what you're saying, it's much easier to blame something like sex or race when in actuality it's a failing on your part which is causing you to be treated differently. Often times many of us are guilty of thinking we're a bit better than we actually are, hell knows I'm guilty of it. Difference is when you're playing a male character, folks are much more likely to point out when and how you're fucking up, so you can improve, not so much on girls. I'd be likely to question my play ability rather than the differences in how the sexes are treated in video games, if I didn't catch high praise on my male toons and being trusted repeatedly with important jobs, where as my openly female characters just weren't. I'm not saying I'm insanely awesome, especially now that I just don't have the drive or the time to hardcore game anymore, but I wasn't too shabby.

You're absolutely right on how females get a lot of benefits in the gaming world, every one of your points is spot on, free pixels, attention, and of course there's the ewhore consequence issue. My point is that those of us who do care about playing the game on a higher level (or did in my case) do reap the consequences of girls who give gaming girls a bad name in general, and have to work hard to overcome those obstacles.

Like I said in the beginning of my post, I haven't ran into it a lot on P99, people seem equally pleasant and giving to new folks regardless of sex, as well as just helping out in general, but I'm also not a part of nor plan to be a part of the raid scene, so I can't speak for how it affects anything on the higher level.

To be fair, this was my personal experience and what drove me to play more of a male persona when I game, but I began gaming when females just weren't as prevalent in the gaming world, and times have changed. Someone starting now may have an entirely different experience to what I encountered back in 1999.

[JPMorgan]

Like I said in the beginning of my post, I haven't ran into it a lot on P99, people seem equally pleasant and giving to new folks regardless of sex, as well as just helping out in general, but I'm also not a part of nor plan to be a part of the raid scene, so I can't speak for how it affects anything on the higher level.

At first I was extremely discouraged when I joined p99. I met a guy who was playing a female toon of the same race, class and level: only he had a lot of really nice upgrades constantly handed out to him while I maintained my trusty, rusty spear. I was pleasantly surprised, however, when I eventually got a some cool hand-me-downs as well. I think this is indicative of the higher level of maturity of p99 when compared to classic live. We're all substantially older now.

To be fair, this was my personal experience and what drove me to play more of a male persona when I game, but I began gaming when females just weren't as prevalent in the gaming world, and times have changed. Someone starting now may have an entirely different experience to what I encountered back in 1999.

I've always found the concept of women playing male characters interesting. Men play women for various reasons, but in the end it's expected that most women are men. I don't think I've ever encountered a male character who I had suspected was actually a female.

In a way it exchanges any positive or negative impact that your sexual identity may have upon your experience, for the impacts of your actual achievements and other measurable qualifications. This is the reality of gaming for nearly all male players. A man is simply a player, there are no other factors. He is measured by the results he produces. A woman is a female and a player, and so a different set of criteria shapes her experiences. It's kind of a double-edged sword: do you want free shit and special treatment, or do you want to be taken seriously?

Is it right? Probably not. But, I think the social context created by women flaunting the fact that they are women isn't going to improve anything from the vantage point of any neck beard. I'm not saying women should hide the fact that they are women, I'm just saying it behooves them to not go out of their way to announce it. Just like on your male character: you didn't correct anyone, and you didn't play up the fact that you're a woman. Which is pretty groovy. So, my next comment doesn't really apply to you.

But, for statements like these:

Lol, you seriously think women have an easier time in online games?

The answer is obviously "yes." You will have an easier time getting gear, and you will have an easier time procuring help in achieving whatever it is you want to achieve. However, if you abuse the fact that most men will jump at the chance to help a woman gamer by flaunting your alleged double X chromosomes while expecting to be taken seriously, you will technically have a harder time, in that you will fail to have your cake and eat it too.

[Clark]

You get free pixels and attention already, isn't that enough for you whores?

lol

[Clark]

Girls are bad at MMO's and they cause drama that blows up guilds. This is why professional WoW guilds have policies of inviting female members.

Dang lol didn't know that.

[Faerie]

I wiped a raid once (easy as a bard~) and when it happened the guildleader was super pissed, but when I told him it was my fault he calmed down and was like, "Well, mistakes happen." At the time I didn't mind because I was super embarrassed, but looking back if most other members had done that they'd have been chewed out and maybe told to sit out a raid or two.

Sometimes now when I join an MMO, I don't tell anyone my RL gender. When I first started playing here (red release november 2011!) I did this, and if anyone asked about my RL I just told them I was a gnome. Other times though it's fun to express your femininity.

Even while being a Tunarian princess, I feel it's best to be really careful about things. In one of the MMOs I played, I found myself in a very unpleasant situation. I'd been with a guild for a while and really liked the people and how we worked together; they were great e-friends. Things really started to cross over into creepiness with the guildleader, though. We talked tons in game and on the guild forum, but I didn't think much of it until he started to get sort of needy and demanding of my attention. Then he told me that he was collecting our phone numbers in case there was something super important happening, and I gave it to him. So then he was calling and texting me like every day and I didn't know what to say to make him stop. I was 16 at the time, and he was nearing 40. It got to the point where I was actually frightened and I quit the game for a while, and blocked his number. Later I found out that he had been doing the same thing to other girls in the guild.

I hope I don't sound like those "gamer girls" in that youtube clip, but I just want to fucking play video games. It sucks to feel like you're inadvertently leading someone on when you just want to be friends and kill dwarves together or whatever. I have this serious problem where people become infatuated with me over the gaming medium. It hasn't happened here yet, but I think that's because I sort of know how to avoid it now.

And you read that phone numbers, addresses, pics and all sorts of things are being leaked over EQ drama. A lot of this recently over on Red, and it makes me very uncomfortable.

Anyway, yeah. Sexism and stalker behavior is alive and well here in the gaming community.

[Ajkuhuun]

Faerie, I can relate. My character was featured in a series of online EQ comics a friend of mine wrote, and was featured in a Silky Venom article regarding girl gaming. After that I logged into so many tells I actually couldn't get to them all, most of which were especially disconcerting...I actually had a guy bug me for three straight days wanting to know what shoe size I wore. I stopped logging in, and a RL friend of mine got tired of not having a tank for our groups and paid for a name change for me.

[Faerie]

Faerie, I can relate. My character was featured in a series of online EQ comics a friend of mine wrote, and was featured in a Silky Venom article regarding girl gaming. After that I logged into so many tells I actually couldn't get to them all, most of which were especially disconcerting...I actually had a guy bug me for three straight days wanting to know what shoe size I wore. I stopped logging in, and a RL friend of mine got tired of not having a tank for our groups and paid for a name change for me.

Ouch :(

Way to ruin something awesome, lame people.

[Fame]

Tell it to someone who cares, I'll provide a list so you don't have to lift a finger, think of it as holding a door open for you or having a heart to heart with your dad and us deciding this would be best for you if that helps.
http://images.sussexpublishers.netdna-cdn.com/article-inline-half/blogs/34034/2013/01/116793-114796.jpg
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2012/6/26/9b3a3148-0222-4a33-9988-a543dc02cdb5.jpg
http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/montel-williams.jpg
http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/2012/Springer%20111.jpg

[Faerie]

Tell it to someone who cares, I'll provide a list so you don't have to lift a finger, think of it as holding a door open for you or having a heart to heart with your dad and us deciding this would be best for you if that helps.

Who are you even talking to? :P

[JPMorgan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBoeMF4FYs

watch this and then look at the name of the person who created the video.
and that is their logic.


I think this sums up the biggest social obstacle for women who play video games in the year 2014.

[Fame]

Same person I've been trolling, I'm not much for masquerade.

[Cecily]

Sometimes now when I join an MMO, I don't tell anyone my RL gender.

I think I did that for 1.5 years here. It worked ok for awhile, but it backfired and ended up bringing more attention to my RL gender than I wanted. The are you female IRL question was so horribly awkward to deal with that I decided to dodge it all together. Unfortunately, that normally benign piece of information is step 1 to forming any meaningful connection between people. Know who you're dealing with. As people we're scripted to interact one way or the other, depending on gender. I kinda threw a wrench in that with my silence, but so does my answer lol.

[JPMorgan]

I think I did that for 1.5 years here. It worked ok for awhile, As people we're scripted to interact one way or the other, depending on gender.

I'm curious to how saying you're a male to avoid unwanted attention directed towards your gender would effect this. I'm a man, but my chat box isn't filled with vulgar tells from other male players about stuff they wouldn't say in front of a woman. In fact, that sort of stuff is said way more often in public, or semi-public channels.

Does it mean that they just talk about sports, automobiles or some other stereotypical male driven interest? I care very little about either of those things, and again they never even come up.

The only scripted behaviors I could imagine that would flare up between opposite genders, that don't come up between two individuals of the same gender -- with the exception of the presence of homosexuality (which isn't a big deal) -- is romantic intimacy. If someone is crude then they will be crude, no matter what their audience's gender. I'm uncomfortable with certain topics, and I'll pull the conversation away from them. If you say you're a male in this context, then what you're really doing is making yourself gender neutral. It's similar to de Beauvoir's the other.

Again, it isn't really right that you should have to resort to this, but I don't see how lying about your gender would be anything but beneficial if you have no intent to instigate or reap any of the effects of being a woman in an environment filled with creepy sexists. I can see how it would be annoying. But, in the end, who cares: unless the point is to highlight the fact that you are a woman -- for the purpose of an equality crusade or otherwise.

[Fame]

Trolling aside, you're all elfs to me

[JPMorgan]

Trolling aside, you're all elfs to me

That's the ticket.

[applesauce25r624]

Sometimes now when I join an MMO, I don't tell anyone my RL gender.

you mean sex

gender is a social construct

PS: can anybody name any females (sex, you jackasses) that have played at a highly competitive level in PVP in any MMO games?

changed back it to original post. fuck it. didn't realize that edit history is displayed.

when that guy was perving on your shoe size, can't you just say something like "size 15, i'll rip your dick off with my monster toes?"

use some imagination

[Ajkuhuun]

PS: can anybody name any females (sex, you jackasses) that have played at a highly competitive level in PVP in any MMO games?

http://www.twitch.tv/itshafu

World of Warcraft
1st - MLG Orlando 2008
1st - MLG Dallas 2008
1st - NA Blizzard Regionals 2008
3rd - Blizzcon 2008
3rd - ESL Leipzig 2008

Bloodline Champions
1st - Dreamhack Summer 2011

Female gamer Hafu wins MLG Orlando with Orz (http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/17797-Female_gamer_Hafu_wins_MLG_Orlando_with_Orz)


when that guy was perving on your shoe size, can't you just say something like "size 15, i'll rip your dick off with my monster toes?"

And yeah, tried shit like that. Nothing helped, not even ignore. Douche just remade different toons. It's unfair to make this the stereotype though, there's fucking bug ass crazy people in each sex, this is just my "disturbing" story.

[Faerie]

This thread is gonna be 8 billion pages long by tomorrow.

[Cecily]

you mean sex

gender is a social construct

PS: can anybody name any females (sex, you jackasses) that have played at a highly competitive level in PVP in any MMO games?

Sex and gender are regarded as synonyms by most of the population. Not 100% correct, but you're just being pedantic.

On my Lineage 2 server, Gustin: H20Krystalize, ShortNSweet, Eurybi, ebilsacurachan, Eriyan, Desdemona, DivineJustice, Lydian, some treasure hunter, Lilija, Alhannah, IRcute. All people, women, I spoke to on a regular basis on ventrilo.

That list excludes women from other clans on my server and women on the other 7 servers. But, maybe I ran into all the women playing that highly competitive PvP game and there weren't anymore. Who knows? What the hell is your point?

[Faerie]

I don't know of any professional gamers, male or female. But there were plenty of women playing on Vallon Zek back in the day, in highly competitive guilds.

[knix]

We are all so different, I am not concerned about being the best, or trying to compete with the males playing.

All of our experiences are all so unique, I don't think you can make generalizations of typical events.

That being said, i have come across guys who think that because I am a female that I have used my feminine whiles to get where I am in the game. That somehow I allow the males in the game to "give" me stuff, when i have worked for the items, being the 16 highest in DKP in TMO, and in the top 10 dkp for tracking hours.

I do not play like a guy though, I defiantly am a support kind of player, the cleric that waits in the camp for the hot-pullers to bring the dragon in. Someone has to be at "camp" otherwise there is no camp. Sometimes i get very stressed out while duoing or trioing when it has to be done exactly timed a certain way. When it requires a lot of stressfull playing i walk away from the computer feeling fully spent, needing to relax, not energized because we just did something pretty spectacular.

I do not hide being female. I also had to quit playing a male char that i leveled from 30-52, i kept beaming smiles at people, and i could tell it was wierding them out, then i always felt compelled to explain my gender.

I never accepted hand outs, and only accept help from people that I feel like i have helped them and they are returning a favor. I do not take advantage of kind people, and it really bothers me to see others get used by people that use people.

Also, before I act in any outrageously flirty way with anyone, I have gotten to know them well enough already made sure that they are very secure in their own life and are not going to getting attached to me. I have had some very uncomfortable conversations on the front end of some very good friendships, to make sure that its not going to go into a weird place.

I am not quite sure if this is what you were asking, but there it is.

[Shaakglith12194]

Unfortunately, for every female gamer that represents her sex in a professional manner (plays class well, doesn't try to flirt for handouts) there are some that do play up their sex for advantages. I've played with many female gamers, flirted with some if I thought it was welcome, and just had a good time doing MMO things and talking about MMO things with others. Probably played with way more respectable female gamers than I have ewhores, but even one guild-destroying ewhore can remain in your memory for a long time.

The main one that comes to mind for me is this druid in my raid guild during Vanilla WoW. We were horde and tearing our way through molten core, going farther all the time, getting pimped out, working like a well-oiled machine that spits out items. We had a druid named Bella or Bellamoo or something who was very much flirting with the guild leader constantly. It got out of hand, he started screwing up at raids when she was there, he was never able to help out anyone in the guild because he was constantly farming stuff for her or helping her alt or just basically spending every moment with this girl. He would ignore DKP to give her loot because he thought it was "what the guild needed" to progress, and there was a lot of very vocal complaining about the whole thing. Long story short, she left guild once she had the loot she wanted, he got upset and quit game, guild disbanded and we reformed under a new tag with me as the new main tank. We lost quite a few members in the reformation and by the time I quit the game, we hadn't really regained our focus.

All that being said, if games had a playerbase that was mostly female, it would all be flipped around. Some dudes would play on their sex for advantage and others would just try to be good players. My current guild leader is a woman. Does a great job and I respect her.

[JPMorgan]

All that being said, if games had a playerbase that was mostly female, it would all be flipped around. Some dudes would play on their sex for advantage and others would just try to be good players. My current guild leader is a woman. Does a great job and I respect her.

I have a hard time envisioning this. There are men who pull this off in real life, but it's not nearly as common, and I think it's accurate to draw a parallel between RL and MMOs in this one scenario. It simply isn't a cultural norm for women to pursue the affections of men through worldly possessions or monetary gifts. Some women do, but not enough to for the trend to be as prominent as it is in the mostly male player base.

This also brings up something that has only been hinted at indirectly in this discussion. There are women like the one you mentioned who use their sex to their advantage. But, there are also a lot of men who just compulsively throw items at women. Probably even more of the latter than the former. So far some of the women in this conversation have insisted that they refuse to take these offers, but why? Because the women who do take the offers, like any rational human being -- I'm not going to turn down free upgrades -- portray the image of exploiting their sex.

I'd also like to point out I'm not trying to white-knight this shit. This topic is simply interesting: I admit I get frustrated when I see low level female characters getting decked out by strangers. I've had one occurrence of getting hooked up by a stranger on p99. Interestingly enough, it was from a female character that I suspect to be played by an actual female.

[blondeattk]

Am male and since starting rpg in 1985, have mostly played female chars. NOt that i was good at role playing `the female mind`.....what does a teenager know about that anyway ?:P Might have a clue about that now, but I dont really roleplay that much on EQ.....cos this game is `hackNslash` rpg not proper roleplay anyway....../ducks

imo the models are better for most females of the races. except trolls and gnomes.....maybe iksar?

Never been interested in the high end raiding game, so dont see it as a relevant question(can girls compete?) imo thats nothing to do with sex its about mentality. Depends how important VR is to you vs real life.

[Swish]

Kind of wished I hadn't made my rogue a half elf female. While most people in my guild knew who I was from these forums when I applied, a few obviously didn't...and there were a couple of interesting "advances" made by some of the guys in the guild when I first met them.

All I'll say is that's not my style, and if you're keen to flirt with the girls in the game then you should at least find out if they're actually a girl first :D No harm done, they know now.

Probably my first/last female character on P99 though.

[Sebekkha]

Kevintung male human paladin is a lady in RL , but that's the only lady I've ever seen play a male character in EQ

[knix]

When i was in my first p99 guild with another half elf female druid we are/were the only two on the sever. I often tried to engage her in feminine banter, and kept falling flat. Nice polite and friendly but, felt flat, i thought she didn't like me.

I finally had to ask her one day, Turns out she was being played by a guy, great guy. From then on I assumed that all females were played by men (but i wanted them all to be female, cause i wanted more women playing). Ran into him again while exploring Velious the other night. It was tons of fun discovering the new land with my twin druid. It was kind of like discovering something from your EQ past with someone from your p99 past.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I had a great reply written out and realized this wasn't RnF :( I'd just like to say as P99's premiere princess that I don't feel I've ever gotten the respect I deserve due to my choice of character and incorrect tone of voice. Ain't that some shit.

[Clark]

This thread is gonna be 8 billion pages long by tomorrow.

o.O

[Rhambuk]

since when can people tell what sex you are by your avatar? or do you mean in game sex in which case i don't think it matters.

if its a problem you don't have to tell every person you meet, hi im a woman irl.

[Cecily]

The problem is, every person you meet will ask you that.

[Estu]

I've gotta say the level of discourse in this thread is a lot higher than I expected. Lots of good points all around. I don't have any to add, though :p

[Hailto]

I never ask if someone is a girl IRL cause i don't really care, im not on eq to have elf cyber. Lets duo this evening though cecily, if u know what i mean bby.

[Rhambuk]

The problem is, every person you meet will ask you that.

The majority of my characters on p99 have been female, not once has anyone ever asked me if i was female irl.

Maybe I'm juts so macho it exudes through my avatar and people just know.

also you don't have to answer when someone asks about your real life

[HeallunRumblebelly]

The problem is, every person you meet will ask you that.

Literally never once been asked if I'm a guy. TBH it's quite rude.

[Bolix]

I don't think that it is acceptable that the first reply to a post on female experiences in EQ refers to women as whores.
Racism and homophobia aren't acceptable, so why is misogyny? If we casually refer to women as whores, even as a joke, then we create an atmosphere of low-level sexism and intimidation which leads to the mistreatment of women.
Have a look at the everyday sexism project
http://www.everydaysexism.com/
which gives 1000s of examples of, well, everyday sexism.

On the main point, as a male, no-one ever flirts with me online, probably because i'm double ugly (ugly on the inside, ugly on the outside). Playing a female toon in another game, someone was being pretty friendly and asked me how old i was. I replied "old and male" and he felt a little sheepish after that.

I have to say that I play to level up, have fun, get fat loots, but not really to chat with members of the opposite sex. And if people ask me RL questions that I'm not comfortable with, like the other posters suggest, I just answer as my toon "i'm a troll, i come from grobb"

[Asap]

I don't play female characters because females have cuties.

[Gaffin 7.0]

no offense but women just cant take the pressure being hardcore, if they do its very slim odds, it usually ends up with whining or /q'ing from rage, cant take criticism as well

[Kimmie]

I don't play female characters because females have cuties.

circle circle, dot dot--now you have a cootie shot.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I don't think that it is acceptable that the first reply to a post on female experiences in EQ refers to women as whores.
Racism and homophobia aren't acceptable, so why is misogyny? If we casually refer to women as whores, even as a joke, then we create an atmosphere of low-level sexism and intimidation which leads to the mistreatment of women.
Have a look at the everyday sexism project
http://www.everydaysexism.com/
which gives 1000s of examples of, well, everyday sexism.

On the main point, as a male, no-one ever flirts with me online, probably because i'm double ugly (ugly on the inside, ugly on the outside). Playing a female toon in another game, someone was being pretty friendly and asked me how old i was. I replied "old and male" and he felt a little sheepish after that.

I have to say that I play to level up, have fun, get fat loots, but not really to chat with members of the opposite sex. And if people ask me RL questions that I'm not comfortable with, like the other posters suggest, I just answer as my toon "i'm a troll, i come from grobb"

Don't like racism homophobia or sexism? Don't go to red99. Don't reply to the red99 folk and you'll be a lot happier. Trying to use psychology and philosophy on those who only want to destroy and tear down, and then trying to apply that philosophy and psychology to the general male populace is laughable.

Also, if you're gonna do that RP crap, gotta go hard with it like Brut. I'm pretty sure he's an ogre from like, denmark or something now no lie.

[LethalLogic]

Who the heck cares...nobody knows your gender, race, religion, or sexual preferences unless you tell them. So zip it and play the dang game.

[Champion_Standing]

Had a friend in high school that used to pretend to be a girl to get free stuff from guys, I didn't realize it was going on but I was always amazed that every time he went for a camp he came out with the item he wanted.

The best part was when someone asked me if I knew him. I responded, unaware of his ruse, "yeah he's my friend IRL we have known each other since we were little kids". His response was "Wait....HE?!" Well...it all unraveled and hell broke loose...many LOLs and ROFLs were had.

[Danth]

The wife's been participating in online gaming since about 1998. She's played everything from shooters to role-playing games. I can't recollect her ever having a great deal of undue problems due to her being a gal. The only peculiar attention we've received on P1999 was directed at both of us (more so at me), not at her specifically.

She and I have different opinions as to why that's the case given the horror stories we read. She believes it's because she's visibly in a relationship, therefore taken, hence the flirty sort of guys devote their attention elsewhere. My own opinion amounts to her not receiving much unwanted attention because she simply acts like an ordinary player. Ultimately most players care more about winning than about who's on the other side of the computer screen.

Danth

[HeallunRumblebelly]

The wife's been participating in online gaming since about 1998. She's played everything from shooters to role-playing games. I can't recollect her ever having a great deal of undue problems due to her being a gal. The only peculiar attention we've received on P1999 was directed at both of us (more so at me), not at her specifically.

She and I have different opinions as to why that's the case given the horror stories we read. She believes it's because she's visibly in a relationship, therefore taken, hence the flirty sort of guys devote their attention elsewhere. My own opinion amounts to her not receiving much unwanted attention because she simply acts like an ordinary player. Ultimately most players care more about winning than about who's on the other side of the computer screen.

Danth

Danth Lara Andain 2014. Let's bring the magic back to P99. Reinstate global ooc pls :3

[Robdukes]

My longtime G/F built and ran the largest guild on the Anetheron server on WoW for a few years. She knew her shit and was good at WoW.

I tried to get her to play EQ. She just can't get into it.

Her strengths lie in her communication abilities. Making friends, recruiting guildmates, logging on all the time, and helping people get what they wanted or get better at the game. She was good at playing her WoW toons and would often score the highest points in PVP battles. But she's 5 years younger than me. So she doesn't have that same feeling for EQ that I have. When I was 16 and amazed at being able to play a 3D D&D style game, she was still a kid and didn't even know what D&D was. It's a generational gap, the tabletop RPGs and classic NES SNES etc RPGs were mine and alot of others who play p99's generation. The ones who came after us skipped all of that. And now if the graffix aren't wow level or better they won't mess with it for the most part.

[myriverse]

I don't play female characters because females have cuties.
Cuties are a good thing to be/have.

Cooties? Not so much.
I never ask if someone is a girl IRL cause i don't really care, im not on eq to have elf cyber. Lets duo this evening though cecily, if u know what i mean bby.
^This.

And I've never been asked my IRL gender in a game, and tend to play female characters a lot.

[Cecily]

I don't play female characters because females have cuties.

Kids love Cuties because Cuties are made for kids.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Kids love Cuties because Cuties are made for kids.

http://happymoneysaver.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cuties.jpg

Delicious, imo.

[Cecily]

I could go downstairs for a cutie, but I just had an apple. Interesting that all you guys don't get that question though. Very interesting.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I could go downstairs for a cutie, but I just had an apple. Interesting that all you guys don't get that question though. Very interesting.

What question?

[Cecily]

I've always been wondering Heallun. Are you a guy IRL?

[Swish]

http://media.giphy.com/media/11jexzkIlBp4gE/giphy.gif

[Tiggles]

http://www.twitch.tv/itshafu

World of Warcraft
1st - MLG Orlando 2008
1st - MLG Dallas 2008
1st - NA Blizzard Regionals 2008
3rd - Blizzcon 2008
3rd - ESL Leipzig 2008

Bloodline Champions
1st - Dreamhack Summer 2011

Female gamer Hafu wins MLG Orlando with Orz (http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/17797-Female_gamer_Hafu_wins_MLG_Orlando_with_Orz)




And yeah, tried shit like that. Nothing helped, not even ignore. Douche just remade different toons. It's unfair to make this the stereotype though, there's fucking bug ass crazy people in each sex, this is just my "disturbing" story.

Hafu is a good player but she is just one member of a team in all those wins, It's common knowledge she is carried by the other players and she just the public face and image of the team.

They could replace her with a superior player in about 15 minutes but they would lose her 1+ million plus twitch fans and the revenue they bring in.

This is why GPU companies sponsor "frag dolls" and other all female teams, they are not better then male teams but people like watching girls play video games.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/17839-Hafu_Orz_is_a_dude_bending_over

Hafu was removed from her previous team for poor performance and was picked up by a competitive team only as a "fuck you" to the original team when they beat them in the finals.

[Swish]

www.twitch.tv (aka LiveJasmin for gamers)

[Rhambuk]

What question?

I also thought, what question?
even when referenced we don't understand what you're talking about.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I've always been wondering Heallun. Are you a guy IRL?

Yes, yes I am.

http://i1.wp.com/www.funnywallphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/all-that-is-man.jpg?resize=500%2C273

edit: Also, we don't get that question because we talk on vent and it's suuuper apparent, or someone has mad dedication to a very good voice mod :P Now finding out someone is secretly black, well, he knows who he is :3

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnqwh3do9l1qdqlhzo1_500.gif

[Asap]

Cooties, my bad. Yea, they have them. Gross.

[India]

Faerie, I can relate. My character was featured in a series of online EQ comics a friend of mine wrote, and was featured in a Silky Venom article regarding girl gaming. After that I logged into so many tells I actually couldn't get to them all, most of which were especially disconcerting...I actually had a guy bug me for three straight days wanting to know what shoe size I wore. I stopped logging in, and a RL friend of mine got tired of not having a tank for our groups and paid for a name change for me.

Which article? I ran the SV site with Oloh... I'd like to look it up :)

[fastboy21]

was more of an issue on live...where folks took EQ "seriously". people have so many alts here and are so pixel oriented (as compared to game oriented) here compared to live that all social interactions have been watered down compared to their live counter-parts.

i agree that female toons sometimes get treated better than male ones...especially if folks believe they are actually played by females irl. its just a different social element of playing any RPG with women. It was the same in pnp games if you ever actually played with a woman in your grp. preferential treatment and kinder softer responses, as happens irl. this is one of the indications, imo, that EQ is immersive enough to actually resonate gender biases from RL into the game.

on another lvl, i also think having women in a overwhelmingly male game community adds something very dynamic to the experience. i get the sense that there were more women playing on live then there are playing here. no evidence for this assertion, but it feels that way to me.

[khanable]

All I know is that when I teabag sitting folks on tomatoes (female dark elf) they will usually stand and dance or interact in some way

On cucumbers they just ignore me

Rough life

:(

[Naena]

Hafu is a good player but she is just one member of a team in all those wins, It's common knowledge she is carried by the other players and she just the public face and image of the team.

They could replace her with a superior player in about 15 minutes but they would lose her 1+ million plus twitch fans and the revenue they bring in.

This is why GPU companies sponsor "frag dolls" and other all female teams, they are not better then male teams but people like watching girls play video games.

http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/17839-Hafu_Orz_is_a_dude_bending_over

Hafu was removed from her previous team for poor performance and was picked up by a competitive team only as a "fuck you" to the original team when they beat them in the finals.

You don't get first place in MLG/3rd at Blizzcon from being carried, sure there might have been some players who could have done it better, but to say she was carried is going a bit far. You aren't going to pull off a win in a tourney as big as MLG or Blizzcon if someone on your team isn't one of the best at what they do.

But anyway, since the question all this came from was asking if there were any females who have played at a highly competitive level in PVP in any MMO games... There are plenty of females who have played at high level in PvP in WoW, which is without a doubt the most popular and competitive MMO ever. There are also girls that play at high level in SC2, and I'm sure pretty much every other competitive video game too.

There are plenty of guys who suck at MMOs/video games, just like there are girls that suck. However I probably know just as many girls who I trust to play their character to its full potential as guys.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

You don't get first place in MLG/3rd at Blizzcon from being carried, sure there might have been some players who could have done it better, but to say she was carried is going a bit far. You aren't going to pull off a win in a tourney as big as MLG or Blizzcon if someone on your team isn't one of the best at what they do.

But anyway, since the question all this came from was asking if there were any females who have played at a highly competitive level in PVP in any MMO games... There are plenty of females who have played at high level in PvP in WoW, which is without a doubt the most popular and competitive MMO ever. There are also girls that play at high level in SC2, and I'm sure pretty much every other competitive video game too.

There are plenty of guys who suck at MMOs/video games, just like there are girls that suck. However I probably know just as many girls who I trust to play their character to its full potential as guys.

I'm sure by percentile it's all the same, but why is my guild like 95% men :P

[Gadwen]

I just make the assumption that everyone I am playing with is a beautiful woman (male chars included), and I treat everyone like a princess.

[Bazia]

If I ever get divorced I'll probably try to find my next significant other through EQ emulator.

[Gadwen]

If I ever get divorced I'll probably try to find my next significant other through EQ emulator.

Solid plan, just remember to send her tells every day asking what size shoe she wears.

[Ajkuhuun]

Solid plan, just remember to send her tells every day asking what size shoe she wears.

Literally not a better pick up line, you're a shoe in ;)

[Doors]

There's more terrible male gamers than female gamers out there.

That said, I don't think there's one female in my guild on red. Better that way really, bitches cause drama over loot.

[Faerie]

There's more terrible male gamers than female gamers out there.

That said, I don't think there's one female in my guild on red. Better that way really, bitches cause drama over loot.

Apparently you guys chased off the one girl you had lol.

[Laledorie]

Better that way really, bitches cause drama over loot.

I'm amazed you guys don't have any females in your guild, really. And not all "bitches" cause drama over loot. Really, is it that big of a deal? :rolleyes:

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Literally not a better pick up line, you're a shoe in ;)

...Put shoe on head :o

[Faerie]

Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks.

There do seem to be fewer women on red than on blue and what I recall from live. Maybe it's just because there are less people in general. The few RL female friends I have that play MMOs are also complete bluebies, even in games like WoW where a player isn't really penalized for poor pvp performance.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks.

There do seem to be fewer women on red than on blue and what I recall from live. Maybe it's just because there are less people in general. The few RL female friends I have that play MMOs are also complete bluebies, even in games like WoW where a player isn't really penalized for poor pvp performance.

Could also because red is toxic to a hilarious degree. I ain't even mad--that's what hardcore pvp is about. Burning a motherfucker's house down after he takes your camp.

[Sidelle]

Funny thread. I especially love the posts saying women cause the drama, whine too much, suck at the game, or can't take criticism. Or we're all supposedly whoring ourselves out for loot. What a bunch of bullshit. Guys who roll female toons and try to pass themself off as girls are the most guilty of doing that, thank you very much.

And as for the whining drama-queen types it's usually the guys who act like the biggest bitches around here.

Yeah, I said it.

[Gaffin 7.0]

nah

[Sidelle]

Yah.

Lol

[Gaffin 7.0]

i said in my post though MOST, not all, maybe not you but ive been guilded and in teamspeak with some extremely annoying, whining, omg i didnt get pixels or u hurt my feelings /q'ing females b4

[Faerie]

i said in my post though MOST, not all, maybe not you but ive been guilded and in teamspeak with some extremely annoying, whining, omg i didnt get pixels or u hurt my feelings /q'ing females b4

Get your shit together, Gaffin.

[Gaffin 7.0]

sorry you ladies taking offense to my opinions, but its true, and sadly females or guys acting as females get geared faster than anyone else on blue

[Sidelle]

I remember having a decent length conversation with Sidelle in vent once, would've never guessed she was/is the same person that posts so wildly here haha

Just havin' some fun. :D

[Faerie]

sorry you ladies taking offense to my opinions, but its true, and sadly females or guys acting as females get geared faster than anyone else on blue

Your opinions are based upon simplified generalities of your own limited experiences. That's no way to live.

[Gaffin 7.0]

not sure how its limited if ive been in every top guild on red and blue, and its always been that way

[Sidelle]

sorry you ladies taking offense to my opinions, but its true, and sadly females or guys acting as females get geared faster than anyone else on blue

I suppose you have a point, but you should remember some of us don't go that route and resent it when people assume we do.

Still love ya, not mad at all. :D

[Faerie]

I wasn't taking offense either; you're just wrong is all :)

[whitebandit]

I don't play female characters because females have cuties.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/07/120720_SCI_cootiegameEX.png.CROP.article250-medium.png

or

http://www.sunpacific.com/images/cutiesboxw214.jpg

[Cecily]

I don't see that as anything but a perk.

[Quineloe]

Lol, you seriously think women have an easier time in online games?
With female characters people usually put more effort into socializing with you, resulting in more group invites over a long time because they are more likely recognize or even remember you, on the other hand you only get to tag along. Other people will make all the calls because you are woman, you don't get to lead.

[Joyelle]

I don't feel like I have ever received preferential treatment for being female playing MMOs. On the other hand I don't feel like I've ever been treated badly because of it either. I don't go out of my way to tell people I am a girl but if someone asks me I don't have a reason to lie about it.

The most mind-boggling thing that happens to me is that occasionally someone doesn't believe I am actually female IRL. At that point I don't really care if anyone believes me, because I don't have anything to prove to anyone on P99. The only people who really matter to me have heard me talk in TS, and know whether or not I am.

There is that one guy every once in awhile that is creepy and pervy (especially after hearing me talk in TS) but those experiences are pretty far and few between.

[khanable]

There is that one guy every once in awhile that is creepy and pervy (especially after hearing me talk in TS) but those experiences are pretty far and few between.

haha yendor

[HeallunRumblebelly]

With female characters people usually put more effort into socializing with you, resulting in more group invites over a long time because they are more likely recognize or even remember you, on the other hand you only get to tag along. Other people will make all the calls because you are woman, you don't get to lead.

No one tell Lilyanna this :p

[GlassMachine]

Just like life, you get what you put into these games.

My experience has been quite different than many of the posts in this thread. The girls who have caused the most drama were either a.) looking for attention from guys, b.) 13 or younger, or c.) both.

For the most part, I played with the kind of people that I like to hang out with irl. Smart, dedicated people who are also really chill. I was in a raiding guild on wow that was in the top five 25m guilds on our server, and 1/3 of our raid force were female. 2 of which were officers (myself as the dps officer, another as the heal officer). Both of us pulled top numbers and earned our spots after a lot of hard work, they were not given to us.

As for me, I just play. Being female doesn't give me an advantage unless I actively persue one, and I don't need to. I'm better than that, and many of the girls I played with felt the same way.

And on a final note - those girls that discriminate against other girls are just perpetuating a stereotype. Grow the fuck up, not every girl is a threat to you. Get some self-respect.

[knix]

And on a final note - those girls that discriminate against other girls are just perpetuating a stereotype. Grow the fuck up, not every girl is a threat to you. Get some self-respect.

I discriminate against myself. is that a problem?

[Jarnauga]

After almost 4 years in here and creeping on dozens of female:

They're pretty much like guys. Mostly good with the exceptional bad apples.

it's like guys and women are the same omg.

Except boobz.

[GlassMachine]

I discriminate against myself. is that a problem?

http://i.imgur.com/KjZDKxU.gif

[Ajkuhuun]

And on a final note - those girls that discriminate against other girls are just perpetuating a stereotype. Grow the fuck up, not every girl is a threat to you. Get some self-respect

I was the only one who mentioned that so guessing it's aimed at me. I've been a guild leader for close to 15 years, both on a casual and raid level, and when I say I think twice about inviting a girl over a guy it's due to experience...15 years of various girls causing major rifts in guilds and sadly it's usually because of a cyber situation which got out of hand. It's got nothing to do with being threatened, to be threatened you have to be cashing in on some aspect of being female and that's just not me. When I did hardcore gaming it was about just that, the game.

Now that being said girls don't have a monopoly on drama, but as a guild leader who has dealt with these situations for years and the aftermath...well...matters of the heart rip apart a guild in a more cataclysmic way than a loot dispute. Again, my own experience talking here, other folks may have had different experiences, but when I ran a serious guild in the past, it was definitely present when I interviewed applicants. Red flags everywhere if there was an excessive amount of tee hees or if they came across as flirty right off the bat.

Fail to see how that ties in with self respect, but...ya know...As I've said countless times in this thread this was my experience.

I should add that now it's not an issue, our folks just aren't vested enough in the game over at Unreliable for it to be an issue, we've got several female members and no issues.

Another thing to add...and another edit. Truth be told I'm probably harder on female players than their male counterparts. I'm guessing it's because on some level every time they don't measure up it feels like a step back. I guess I expect more because I know the potential is there. I know it's not rational, I'm jaded, it's not 1999 and the player base isn't made up of the same individuals it once was and every fuck up or emotional issue of my fellow female gamers isn't a reflection on me. It's a hang up, and it's something I need to work on. Even an old dog like me can learn new tricks ;)

[Gaffin 7.0]

I am grown "the fuck up" 28 years old with a 6 year old son. Just saying from my experience with gaming and girls, specially in the high end of the game. Knix and Sidelle good peeps. not stereotyping anyone, knew some of you were gonna get mad regardless.

[Faerie]

I am grown "the fuck up" 28 years old with a 6 year old son. Just saying from my experience with gaming and girls, specially in the high end of the game. Knix and Sidelle good peeps. not stereotyping anyone, knew some of you were gonna get mad regardless.

I don't think anyone's mad. This is interesting subject matter, and Ajkuhuun expressed a similar sentiment as yours. She said she interviewed people individually though, and made assessments that way instead of expressing sweeping generalizations. Still seems a bit extreme to me, but I'm no hardcore gamer.

Another thing to add...and another edit. Truth be told I'm probably harder on female players than their male counterparts. I'm guessing it's because on some level every time they don't measure up it feels like a step back. I guess I expect more because I know the potential is there. I know it's not rational, I'm jaded, it's not 1999 and the player base isn't made up of the same individuals it once was and every fuck up or emotional issue of my fellow female gamers isn't a reflection on me. It's a hang up, and it's something I need to work on. Even an old dog like me can learn new tricks ;)

If it's not okay for women to suck at games, we have a problem. The girls that can't hack it should not be representatives for the gender on a whole. I totally know what you mean though... sometimes I still make dumb mistakes, and I beat myself up a bit over them because it really does feel like I'm holding back some positive social change. And that's no good.

You sound like something of a perfectionist!

In the end I think we all just need to calm down. Those positive social changes (women and men being viewed on more equal terms while maintaining their positive social differences) seem like eventual inevitabilities to me anyway, though it may be another several generations before they happen. What will be, will be; and while it's always a good thing to help move things along in a progressive way it's best not to get caught up in it. imo

[Fame]

Holy fuck you insecure bitches, go get a buzz on and get trained, you'll feel better about yourselves and have a reason to live in 9 months

[Ajkuhuun]

If it's not okay for women to suck at games, we have a problem.

I should make myself a little clearer, if they want a spot in my raid they can't suck. On the casual level it doesn't really matter, but if someone feels they deserve a spot in a raid above other folks, they need to be able to compete.

[Naena]

You sound like something of a perfectionist!


Ajk re rolled from hunter to warlock during Burning Crusade just because she felt bad whenever she was a dps that didn't top charts. If you're not first, you're last!

[Ajkuhuun]

Ajk re rolled from hunter to warlock during Burning Crusade just because she felt bad whenever she was a dps that didn't top charts. If you're not first, you're last!

God damnit Naena >.< Aren't you meant to be like, working at work?

[Naena]

I am working, very hard!

[Ajkuhuun]

I am working, very hard!

...playing forumquest is hard work :P

[Naena]

I know, especially with all these NSFW sigs and avatars around.

[chief]

girls don't play eq

[Ajkuhuun]

girls don't play eq

http://i.imgur.com/VcSLpFw.jpg

[Grimfan]

I ran a moderately successful Rift guild for a year and a half and we did a lot of raiding. Teaching people how to play the game properly in a raid setting was one of my jobs as a guild leader, and although we had a class officer for every other class I was also the cleric class lead. Regardless of the sex of the person playing, the hardest to teach were older people. For some reason Rift attracted a lot of people in their upper 50's and early 60's and they were for the most part okay players but some had a lot of trouble playing the game as it is intended. One even had a bot program that mostly played his character for him, but because there were a lot of mechanics you couldn't have a bot do, he would die a lot, sometimes wiping us. Eventually I asked him not to attend raids anymore.

What I'm getting at is that in all of my time leading successful guilds or being an officer in a successful guild on an MMORPG, I've never had to ask someone not to come to a raid due to general incompetence before him. Gender has not mattered, and thinking back on my own personal experience (which is the worst way to prove anything really) women were at around the same drama level as men.

There's some sense of entitlement no matter what gender you are whenever you decide that you've participated enough to get loot, or to get what you want, man or woman. I have seen both genders bitch about loot, and neither is particularly any more entitled than the other. In my experience women tend to actually instigate sexual drama far less than men. I have had to talk to far more men about their actions towards women in guild chat, raid chat, tells, etc, than I have had women. I do not think it's particularly fair that because someone is a woman that they should instantly be harassed about what they are wearing, how they are playing the game, if they have a boyfriend etc.

In this day and age, being a woman is a little bit easier but on some levels it has gotten more personal. Raiding has changed to where you really need a high level of communication to kill bosses. This means your gender is impossible to hide if you want to compete at high levels and that means you have to expose yourself to harassment by degenerate psychos.

I always felt the all male guilds were pretty insulting to be honest, but, in a culture where men cannot control themselves it is pretty interesting. Those guilds actually admit that they have a problem controlling themselves around women. They realize that some of their most talented members are stalkers and psychopaths and having a woman on a raid gets their head out of the game.

So in my mind I feel it isn't women causing the drama, it's dudes that do not understand that sex should not be a factor when you're playing a game with someone else. It can be nice when you're talking to someone to know who they are, and to know who your audience is for conversations. But I've never understood why people cannot leave it at that, and why they need to bring sex into it.

As far as women being worse or whatever, I think that is an opportunity thing. I had a lot of women do really well in leadership positions. The person that called out mechanics for us was my girlfriend and without her direction the raid would wipe every single time. Anyone else doing it could not communicate well enough, and we had plenty of guys try. If you give someone a chance, it does not matter what their gender is, they will either do or do not.

[Byrjun]

I tried watching Hafu stream Hearthstone, and what a shitty fucking experience that was. Not only was she being fucking awful at the game, she was screaming dumb shit at her chat and listening to the worst electropop garbage music I've ever heard.

If she was a man she'd be completely unknown because fuck watching that.

[Robdukes]

A fun story about my g/f's wow guild.

There was this husband/wife team who were in the guild since the beginning. The wife was constantly using her sweet talking, baby voice, slutty attitude to get free shit, and always got a fuck up pass because of her flirting. When the husband was on she would be talking all nasty with the husband, and when he wasn't on she'd be flirting with other guys in the guild.

One guy in particular they would go into a different vent channel and talk. She ended up walking out on her husband and their couple rug rats going halfway across the country to be with this other guy. They spent a few weeks together and then she came back. The husband took her back. Then a few days later she left for good.

It almost destroyed the guild as they were all veteran officers and both guys were raid leaders. And even worse than that, child services took the kids from the father and the mother didn't care. She's still living with that guy this is going on 2 years later.

Also of note is that the woman looked like Shrek's wife and had a southern drawl. I would hear these stories and hear these people in vent and it was alot of laughs and alot of DAMNS and WOWs. Jerry Springer shit.

[Rhambuk]

something similar happened in my eq live guild.

married couple joined our guild, then she left for like a week to bang our rival guilds leader came back to her husband and he took her back. Just unbelievable what some people do.

[Sylexis]

I recently got in a discussion with some of my friends about how awful sour grapes antagonizing neckbeards and white-knight neckbeards are in WoW and LoL. Was wondering what sort of things you guys face or if you have any funny/disturbing stories about being female in EQ?

Sylexis' guide to playing EQ:

1. Make a female toon.
2. Say dude frequently.
3. Never get in a voice chat or correct anyone when calling you a guy.
4. Play an evil or iksar race and roleplay duel and slaughter all the lesser beings who come on to you or that request cyber.
5. Occasionally reply to jilts and crap talk with "Suck my dick."
6. Reap the benefits of handouts on a female character while not being looked down for your playing/raiding skills.

Now go forth my androgynous minions! Pillage, plunder, conquer and burn whats left!

[Nirgon]

Women (generally) cannot be trusted with important pixels

[Ugrask]

Like the above stories I recall stuff like that happening on Live back when I was in high school. People I grouped with and knew in other guilds

WoW was a whole different shit show. I was in a pretty hardcore raid guild, 5/6 days a week during TBC/LK - We had a few females but everyone got chewed out equally. We did have a few that would try to get a couple people under their thumbs and use them as white knights in any ensuing disputes. But we had guys doing the same thing, but vent was far more common during that time for me...so just more pronounced I guess. Same guild had people in relationships/married where the girl would do the previous reference and try to sink their fangs in. And quite a few gullible people lost a lot of stuff. Name changes and server transfers happening kept the cycle going.

[Bardalicious]

Most females in MMOs I've actually taken the time to know are attention-addicted nutcases that are using the game to cheat on their significant other.

"Come xp/raid with me and my husband/bf while I flirt with you inappropriately in tells."

Was true on live, is still true here on emu servers.

[Laledorie]

Wow this is sad, it's turned into a woman hating board. Sorry that you guys have had such shitty experiences with women. All I can say is that we aren't all so vile. >.<

[Ugrask]

Wow this is sad, it's turned into a woman hating board. Sorry that you guys have had such shitty experiences with women. All I can say is that we aren't all so vile. >.<

Pretty sure only a couple hate comments? I skip around so I could be wrong. You encounter that crap anywhere though, especially with bitter break ups...always gonna hate that other gender until you move the fuck on!

Guys do the same shit in this game, trying to hook up with girls/being creeps.

[Zoolander]

I've met quite a few nice women here on this project

[Faerie]

I try to only group with females, theyre superior in and out of game. So what if im sexist

thx 4 the white gold necklace chewie <3<3

[Raavak]

Wow this is sad, it's turned into a woman hating board. Sorry that you guys have had such shitty experiences with women. All I can say is that we aren't all so vile. >.<How you doin?

[Gadwen]

Fact of the matter is that vast majority of EQ players, male or female, are creepers.

[jaybone]

The problem is females suck ass at everquest.

[Mithan]

This thread makes me sad. Of course there will be people taking advantage of other people, of course there will be cheating, relationship breaking up, and drama. This is all pretty common things humans do, but blaming a gender for it is quite short sighted. There are many factors at play.

Fact is MMOs are predominantly male populated. Because of this, female player will get a lot more opportunities to engage in these behaviors, and statistically, will be involved in the drama more often than their male counterpart. That doesn't make it a gender specific thing.

Fact also is, humans crave intimacy. A lot of people who are either insecure, not confident enough, to enjoy the more traditional ways of finding intimacy (bar scene, clubs etc), will naturally revert to other hobbies, like MMOs, and seek relationships through these, behind the comfort of a screen and keyboard. it's all pretty normal and human. (I'm not saying all MMO players are insecure, I'm saying if you compare the populations of regular bar hoppers to regular MMO players, there will be a greater proportion of bar hoppers who are confident in, and enjoy, the flirting/dating game).

I've had my share of drama. I've gotten involved in romantic relationships with women in EQ back in the back in the days, twice.

The first girl I ended up figuring out was 'seeing' multiple guys and didn't have much interest in anything but casual, which is not what I was looking for. The fact that it was in an MMO, and physical contact because of the distance was infrequent, made it easier for her to be dishonest and hide her other relationships - but other than that, it could have happened anywhere else.

The 2nd girl I've been married to for 10 years, and we're happy as shit.

Please don't let your opinion of a gender get tainted because of appearances, you'll be the one suffering from it in the end.

As for females being bad at everquest, I'm just going to say... LOL. I've met kickass female player, average female players, and sucky one. Just like males.

[Thulack]

I don't feel like I have ever received preferential treatment for being female playing MMOs. On the other hand I don't feel like I've ever been treated badly because of it either. I don't go out of my way to tell people I am a girl but if someone asks me I don't have a reason to lie about it.

The most mind-boggling thing that happens to me is that occasionally someone doesn't believe I am actually female IRL. At that point I don't really care if anyone believes me, because I don't have anything to prove to anyone on P99. The only people who really matter to me have heard me talk in TS, and know whether or not I am.

There is that one guy every once in awhile that is creepy and pervy (especially after hearing me talk in TS) but those experiences are pretty far and few between.

You should hear her in TS too. 5 dollars for 10 mins to chat with her :D

[Erica]

First off, there are a lot of people of both genders who suck, are average, and great at games. It seems like if a guy is horrible, they are just remembered as a bad player. If a woman is horrible, they are remembered as a bad female player.

People encounter women who either don't want to play or who are doing content they are not good enough for because their boyfriend or husband is getting them to give the game a try. He does the hard content, and she has no idea what is going on. Not necessarily because she sucks at games, but because she is new but is not going through the normal "new" process. I would see this happen on DDO, where the new person should be doing normal to learn the game, not the hardest setting.

Also, another part of the problem with bad players are, guys will sometimes just let women play poorly and stay in the group when those same guys would kick a male player out, or be more harsh on him playing bad. The guy who was told what he is doing wrong and/or booted will be forced to correct their mistakes or stop playing. If the female is playing poorly but you just let her do it, she probably doesn't even realize she is playing poorly. Then she gets to a high level by being carried through the content and other guys who group with them think, "Wow this woman sucks... women are so bad at this game."

As far as free items go, I've never been given more when I was new to a game than I give to random people who need help. I'm sure this happens sometimes, but not often. I think guys have confirmation bias. Some people just think this is the norm when it isn't. The ones who "test" this think someone is being kind to them on their male character, and then their female character is shown this same kindness and "omgz womenz get the free stuffs! I knew it!"

[Ugrask]

Well I think the letting women stick around thing is the whole double standard of if they ridicule her, they'd be sexist etc.(which is stupid, just call someone out on something, offer advice without focusing on gender by derogatory terms etc.)

It's why, while I eventually came to detest my old raid guild, I appreciated the fact everyone was treated the same as far as fuckups go. Everyone got bitched at/sat.

And the items thing, just like everything in life people see one instance of something where someone got something they didn't and boom clouds their whole mindset. That's just people being narrow and greedy, while needing an outlet for frustration.

[Roth]

I have a weird opinion on this thread, I think I'm going to white knight a bit actually. I think some of the posts in this thread have been ridiculously sexist tbh. Honestly when I was younger and to a degree now I wouldn't really trust a female to be good at the game. On average I think male gamers tend to be more hardcore for whatever reason. So I suppose a female has to "prove herself" to me so to speak.

I believe in this thread there were actually some great posts by females that made me respect them quite a bit with how they presented their viewpoints. Very fair and rational posts that express the truth of the situation: there is some sexism, some deserved, some undeserved. However, some of the replies to them were pretty fucking disgusting. You shouldn't call someone a whore just because they're a female... it's just kind of terrible. If this was reversed for whatever reason and a female said in a one line post "all men are sex hungry pigs" it would be pretty offensive.

Idk, I think this notion that "anyone who white knights is just pathetic and looking for sex" has to stop. Some of the things people have said in this thread have been way over the top and someone should call them out, but no one wants to be labeled as a white knight. It's kinda sad when our society has evolved to a point where it's better to trash females and treat them as horribly as possible rather than defend them.

I also didn't really like people discrediting hafu. They kicked her out cause of bad performance then a new team picked her up and beat the old team... to say fuck you to them? What? Think about what you just said and you will see that you are going out of your way to discredit her because she is female. Not all female gamers are good but if one is outstanding at multiple games you have to give them respect, you would respect a male gamer with those kind of results.

[Spitty]

I think I'm going to white knight a bit actually.

Go for it!

I think some of the posts in this thread have been ridiculously sexist tbh.

I think you're totally right.

Honestly when I was younger and to a degree now I wouldn't really trust a female to be good at the game. On average I think male gamers tend to be more hardcore for whatever reason. So I suppose a female has to "prove herself" to me so to speak.

Wait, what was that about white-knighting and not being sexist? Cause this is pretty fucking sexist.

I believe in this thread there were actually some great posts by females that made me respect them quite a bit with how they presented their viewpoints.

So you're a chauvinist, too?

there is some sexism, some deserved, some undeserved.

What, exactly, the fuck is "deserved sexism"?

If this was reversed for whatever reason and a female said in a one line post "all men are sex hungry pigs" it would be pretty offensive.

Is that deserved sexism? Or are you just achieving perfect empathy with all the ladies you slighted by stating that women have to "prove themselves" to be decent at a game?

Some of the things people have said in this thread have been way over the top and someone should call them out

I thought so, too - thus my post.

[August]

My wife played WoW with me at a competitive level for 3 years. I was the guild leader for a well-known, highly-ranked horde US guild from classic (molten core) -> TBC (black temple / hyjal).

I gotta say that people's reaction to her being a woman was a huge obstacle for her, myself, and ultimately lead to her quitting the game.

Story time? Story time.

It started innocently enough. We were in a guild that was originally formed in WC3 that was the first guild to down Onyxia. Leader was an asshat, we reformed. That leader was an asshat, and then we reformed again. I was elected leader. I modeled the guild after the only successful guild I had been in to date - a guild on Veeshan server in EQ called Primus Exodus.

Around the second reform my wife (then just a girlfriend) had started to play to spend more time with me - we were doing a long distance thing, and in addition to nightly calls we could play the game together.

It was her first MMO and she ended up being very decent - she wasn't a pro player by any means, but she caught up quickly playing a warlock.

When she hit max level, i knew she could raid - I'd seen her play in all the dungeons up to raid, and we were critically short on warlocks. If you played during molten core, you would know how essential warlocks were in so many battles. I petitioned to let her move to from a 'casual' rank to a 'raider' rank. This is where things started their downward trend that would eventually culminate in me and my wife quitting the game.

At first it was just called out as blatant favoritism. "The guild leader's whore" - this was a term that people used. Mainly behind my back, but of course I would find out. We were on progression mobs which entailed many, many wipes. The overreaction to any wipe caused by her, in comparison to the multitude of wipes caused by a LOT of our raiding members, was out of this world. There would be disproportionate bitching and moaning anytime she got interrupted before a banish or heaven forbid she forget to cast soulstone.

It then rollercoastered into her being 'bad all the time'. This was really before the advent of DPS meters, and people would complain that she was doing her rotation wrong or not pulling her weight. This was actually a catalyst to make dps meters 'mandatory'. When doing so, we discovered something magical - of all the warlocks, she was typically the top dps. Hooray! Problem solved? Not even close.

After she had established her 'right to raid' - a feat that literally no one else was put through, she then had to deal with creepers. People would send her suggestive messages alllll the time. There was a group of people in guild that would make alts and ask her inappropriate questions. We had several people end up getting kicked out of our guild because of this ongoing behavior - people really seemed to have a problem with her, despite the fact that she rarely, if ever, talked in vent, always showed up, on time, to raids, and never caused any drama beyond the typical loot-drama that accompanies a DKP system.

When TBC came out we all leveled up and she decided to reroll into a new class. She had the alt, a shaman, already geared up from alt runs.

At the time, she was playing a very unpopular spec - the 'elemental shaman'. Those of you who might remember, there was a time when ele shamans only had 1 instant, no DoTs, and no way to cast while they moved. Blizzard has since rectified this issue, but the overarching complaint was that on movement based fights (read: all) ele shaman just couldn't keep up. Analysis showed them bottom of DPS, just below boomkins.

So we got to raiding shortly after TBC released, Karazhan, and that's when the shit storm blew up once again. Coming in at 6th place, even though she was off by maybe a half percent of total dmg from 5th, was a huge confidence killer. She was ridiculed for being 'bad' at her class. Melee shamans were way outperforming at this point, and her contribution was being downplayed. Never mind the fact that she was part of a group that was server first to clear Kara - that she played a class with tangible benefits to our caster dps -- that she had clutch instant heals when needed -- that she provided bloodlust and never fucked up -- her marginally less dps than the mage was enough for her to get tormented by members of our guild. It goes without saying that on times she raided with 'pugs' she was number 1 dps by a wide margin.

Convinced of her inability to play as a girl, people started openly bashing her whenever I wasn't online -- in guild chat, in private message, etc. When I logged on, it would magically stop.

Eventually we had to give up. She couldn't log on without me being on. It got to the point where I didn't want to log on, so she couldn't either. I ended up mailing the entirety of our guild bank to the next in command, and deguilded myself, and quit WoW.

In our entire raiding history, she was the only openly female raider in our guild. It was my experience that she was much more heavily scrutinized than others, excluded from a lot of activities, and usually accused of being the 'worst' player when I know for a fact she was far from it.

I'm 100% positive it was conflated with me being the guild leader. Back then, leader was a full-time job for me in addition to anything else I had going on. A 40 man raid meant at least 66 active raiders, constant recruitment, and tons of drama.

However, because of that situation, I can barely get my wife to play any online games with me now. She's always very self conscious bout playing - about 'messing up' despite my assurances that she does a great job.

She did play here for a bit, but ultimately quit because of some real life obligations. I asked her to come back and play with me but she said she was strapped on cash and needed to save up. I asked her how much and she replied to the tune of $3.50. Well about that time I realized she was an 8 story tall crustacean from the paleozoic era! I screamed 'Goddam loch ness monster! Get off my lawn!"

boy I was angry

[Roth]

Go for it!



I think you're totally right.



Wait, what was that about white-knighting and not being sexist? Cause this is pretty fucking sexist.



So you're a chauvinist, too?



What, exactly, the fuck is "deserved sexism"?



Is that deserved sexism? Or are you just achieving perfect empathy with all the ladies you slighted by stating that women have to "prove themselves" to be decent at a game?



I thought so, too - thus my post.

I'm being honest on my opinions and my thoughts... sorry if they aren't sugar coated to be nice sounding. I mostly meant the worst posts should have been called out. Maybe my opinion is too neutral. To clarify I meant that any broad blatantly offensive statements are over the top without any proper reasoning to back them. If someone is reasonable with their post and explain themselves it is fine, imo. Apparently what I typed wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I also was mostly directing this at people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube.

[lecompte]

My wife played WoW with me at a competitive level for 3 years. I was the guild leader for a well-known, highly-ranked horde US guild from classic (molten core) -> TBC (black temple / hyjal).

I gotta say that people's reaction to her being a woman was a huge obstacle for her, myself, and ultimately lead to her quitting the game.

Story time? Story time.

It started innocently enough. We were in a guild that was originally formed in WC3 that was the first guild to down Onyxia. Leader was an asshat, we reformed. That leader was an asshat, and then we reformed again. I was elected leader. I modeled the guild after the only successful guild I had been in to date - a guild on Veeshan server in EQ called Primus Exodus.

Around the second reform my wife (then just a girlfriend) had started to play to spend more time with me - we were doing a long distance thing, and in addition to nightly calls we could play the game together.

It was her first MMO and she ended up being very decent - she wasn't a pro player by any means, but she caught up quickly playing a warlock.

When she hit max level, i knew she could raid - I'd seen her play in all the dungeons up to raid, and we were critically short on warlocks. If you played during molten core, you would know how essential warlocks were in so many battles. I petitioned to let her move to from a 'casual' rank to a 'raider' rank. This is where things started their downward trend that would eventually culminate in me and my wife quitting the game.

At first it was just called out as blatant favoritism. "The guild leader's whore" - this was a term that people used. Mainly behind my back, but of course I would find out. We were on progression mobs which entailed many, many wipes. The overreaction to any wipe caused by her, in comparison to the multitude of wipes caused by a LOT of our raiding members, was out of this world. There would be disproportionate bitching and moaning anytime she got interrupted before a banish or heaven forbid she forget to cast soulstone.

It then rollercoastered into her being 'bad all the time'. This was really before the advent of DPS meters, and people would complain that she was doing her rotation wrong or not pulling her weight. This was actually a catalyst to make dps meters 'mandatory'. When doing so, we discovered something magical - of all the warlocks, she was typically the top dps. Hooray! Problem solved? Not even close.

After she had established her 'right to raid' - a feat that literally no one else was put through, she then had to deal with creepers. People would send her suggestive messages alllll the time. There was a group of people in guild that would make alts and ask her inappropriate questions. We had several people end up getting kicked out of our guild because of this ongoing behavior - people really seemed to have a problem with her, despite the fact that she rarely, if ever, talked in vent, always showed up, on time, to raids, and never caused any drama beyond the typical loot-drama that accompanies a DKP system.

When TBC came out we all leveled up and she decided to reroll into a new class. She had the alt, a shaman, already geared up from alt runs.

At the time, she was playing a very unpopular spec - the 'elemental shaman'. Those of you who might remember, there was a time when ele shamans only had 1 instant, no DoTs, and no way to cast while they moved. Blizzard has since rectified this issue, but the overarching complaint was that on movement based fights (read: all) ele shaman just couldn't keep up. Analysis showed them bottom of DPS, just below boomkins.

So we got to raiding shortly after TBC released, Karazhan, and that's when the shit storm blew up once again. Coming in at 6th place, even though she was off by maybe a half percent of total dmg from 5th, was a huge confidence killer. She was ridiculed for being 'bad' at her class. Melee shamans were way outperforming at this point, and her contribution was being downplayed. Never mind the fact that she was part of a group that was server first to clear Kara - that she played a class with tangible benefits to our caster dps -- that she had clutch instant heals when needed -- that she provided bloodlust and never fucked up -- her marginally less dps than the mage was enough for her to get tormented by members of our guild. It goes without saying that on times she raided with 'pugs' she was number 1 dps by a wide margin.

Convinced of her inability to play as a girl, people started openly bashing her whenever I wasn't online -- in guild chat, in private message, etc. When I logged on, it would magically stop.

Eventually we had to give up. She couldn't log on without me being on. It got to the point where I didn't want to log on, so she couldn't either. I ended up mailing the entirety of our guild bank to the next in command, and deguilded myself, and quit WoW.

In our entire raiding history, she was the only openly female raider in our guild. It was my experience that she was much more heavily scrutinized than others, excluded from a lot of activities, and usually accused of being the 'worst' player when I know for a fact she was far from it.

I'm 100% positive it was conflated with me being the guild leader. Back then, leader was a full-time job for me in addition to anything else I had going on. A 40 man raid meant at least 66 active raiders, constant recruitment, and tons of drama.

However, because of that situation, I can barely get my wife to play any online games with me now. She's always very self conscious bout playing - about 'messing up' despite my assurances that she does a great job.

She did play here for a bit, but ultimately quit because of some real life obligations. I asked her to come back and play with me but she said she was strapped on cash and needed to save up. I asked her how much and she replied to the tune of $3.50. Well about that time I realized she was an 8 story tall crustacean from the paleozoic era! I screamed 'Goddam loch ness monster! Get off my lawn!"

boy I was angry

Please edit this post and put up a tl;dr

I've read the first 6 pages of this thread and wow... how.. ... wow. I didn't know this was such a thing. can't beleive it matters. It is what it is. I strive to treat everyone the same and don't even (conciously) consider their gender in my decision making. People either make it or fail on their own, regardless of gender. If a guy is able to manipulate folks into giving them gear, great. If a woman is able to manipulate folks into giving them gear, great. I think a lot of time people (especially people on this server) have confirmation bias rather heavily when they decide to roll female / male characters. I rolled a male character and got 8k in gear for free (Been paying it forward ever since), randomly, before level 25 -- I have a female character and didn't get 500pp in gear -- I think male characters get all the free loot. I play a male ranger, no one listens to me on raids, I think men aren't respected.

Oh ya, and in a stroke of creepiness, I call everyone sexy when they do me a favor -- I mean, come on! Who doesn't like to be told they are sexy!

[Ugrask]

Please edit this post and put up a tl;dr

No Shit, I was about to read that and went...nope.

And to the previous entries, call people out on shit but don't get worked up. It's the internet, people are going to be piles of human shit. White Knight, who cares. Chivalry should never be considered dead, unless they're right about your intentions =P

[Spitty]

Apparently what I typed wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I also was mostly directing this at people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube.

There wasn't really anything I "wanted to hear". I read most of this thread with my usual simmering loathing of the piles of excrement that can somehow operate a typing device and an internet machine.

What I was doing, and what you totally missed, was pointing out that your post was pretty sexist and mildly chauvinistic in and of itself.

I know, and associate with, women who can fucking straight-up regulate in games like CoD and EQ and have become pretty adept at using any given male's attitude and behavior towards them as a barometer of their true personality.

There's a lot of 'em out there, which might come as a shock to someone whose stock reaction is "prove it" when a female states they possess some sort of magical game-playing ability that's apparently inherent to men everywhere.

[Roth]

I read most of this thread with my usual simmering loathing of the piles of excrement that can somehow operate a typing device and an internet machine.


I really wonder what drives people to be this hateful. I have no idea why you would think things like this about other people. And when you say things like that, I wonder even more how you can believe that you are being a rational understanding person. If you would actually consider someone's thoughts and empathize with why they would think a certain way, I think you would probably have a better time understanding why they would say or do what they do.

[Spitty]

Are you, or are you not the person who was just explaining your position by describing your target pool as "people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube"?

Do you really have a difficult time understanding why I have a somewhat poor view of internet dwellers? Do I need to find examples in this thread of people that are clearly right at home when it comes to trolling and personal attacks?

I don't get you. At all.

[Raavak]

Any women of Norrath need a port? I know a nice romantic spot... And yes my wand is magical, and epic ;-)

And no I'm not being sexist :P

[loramin]

I think the main difference between women and men players of P99 (both in-game and in forum threads like this) is that people make generalizations about how "all" or "most" women do X or Y, and just about no one makes generalizations about how "all" or "most" men do anything.

[Roth]

Are you, or are you not the person who was just explaining your position by describing your target pool as "people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube"?

Do you really have a difficult time understanding why I have a somewhat poor view of internet dwellers? Do I need to find examples in this thread of people that are clearly right at home when it comes to trolling and personal attacks?

I don't get you. At all.

I'll break down my original points

1) Having an opinion on a situation, person, or other form of thought is not bad in itself. Everyone has an opinion on something whether they would like to have one or not. Unless you are of the school of thought that gender is only a construct and there is absolutely no difference between women and men outside the physical differences, you will likely think there are minor differences between women and men. Telling this person they are an asshole or wrong isn't going to change their beliefs on the core level unless you can really convince them. It's possible to silence them, but it's hard to change their core thoughts.

2) I mostly expressed my opinion that in GENERAL, as in most of the time, not all the time, many female gamers I've met are slightly less hardcore than men. It's just a fact of reality that most pro gamers, as in people paid to play, are men. You can debate the reasoning behind that, it doesn't actually matter why it is or isn't. It's just a fact of reality.

3) I have gained some stereotypes of female gamers through experience which is what I stated in the above post. Being more casual is not a bad thing in itself. I never said females are worse at games than men. But generally I am more likely on a subconscious level to be more cautious I suppose of a female gamer, I need to first see how they play. If they are a great player I have no issues considering them as such. I have met many good female gamers.

4) I mentioned the above because originally, I wanted to show that I do not view the situation as black or white. I wanted to show that I do think that there is a grey area... it is alright to openly express your opinions if the situation is appropriate, it is not okay to be openly hateful towards other people.

5) Blatantly discrediting female gamers who have shown their skill is disrespectful to them. Also, being hateful towards females is also something I'm not a fan of. I used the word sexist but I suppose really what I should have said Is I dislike when people openly hate females and no one does anything about it. I think that kind of behavior should be called out.

6) If someone is rational and freely expressing their thoughts I do not think that in and itself is bad if they are not intentionally being hurtful or trying to degrade someone. I think it becomes an issue when you have people saying things like "fuck all these whores"

[Sylexis]

I really wonder what drives people to be this hateful. I have no idea why you would think things like this about other people. And when you say things like that, I wonder even more how you can believe that you are being a rational understanding person. If you would actually consider someone's thoughts and empathize with why they would think a certain way, I think you would probably have a better time understanding why they would say or do what they do.

Odd, I found his replies to be right on the money.

[Bardalicious]

Personally, I don't view or treat female gamers any differently than male gamers. That doesn't change the truth behind what I've said about most of the women I've known over games being a bit imbalanced.

But then I suppose it's easier to remember the ones that left their husband and kids for another man over a video game than it is to remember the ones that play and behave like normal people, since, ya know, they aren't really making their presence obsessively known like the other ones do.

I think that probably has a large part to do with the generalizations in this thread.

[Roth]

Odd, I found his replies to be right on the money.

I just picked out his one line which he basically said that most people on the internet are "piles of excrement that managed to use a keyboard". I feel like if someone thinks this way about other people, it's going to be hard for me to come to any understanding on a point with them. Someone who thinks this way is not going to spend the time to listen to what you have to say.

I also forgot to add, this is not really much different from someone who calls all women whores. Which is why I can't understand why someone would say something like that and then defend another group of people. It just feels so hypocritical.

[lecompte]

I just picked out his one line which he basically said that most people on the internet are "piles of excrement that managed to use a keyboard".

You're not supposed to quote paraphrasing... Especially bad paraphrasing.

[Sylexis]

I just picked out his one line which he basically said that most people on the internet are "piles of excrement that managed to use a keyboard". I feel like if someone thinks this way about other people, it's going to be hard for me to come to any understanding on a point with them. Someone who thinks this way is not going to spend the time to listen to what you have to say.

I actually generally agree with his sentiment. This isn't old classic live where your behavior in game and on the forums could get you blacklisted from the community almost completely. Nowadays there is such a purveyance of trollish, useless behavior that it's impossible to try and hold a gender debate like this; the thread was doomed from the start.

[Spitty]

I'll break down my original points

Well, allow me to retort. Thanks for the veiled slight regarding my intelligence, by the way - I really needed you to break this down for me to understand it.

Telling this person they are an asshole or wrong isn't going to change their beliefs on the core level unless you can really convince them.

I save my convincing abilities for other arenas. If I'm calling someone an asshole, it's not because I'm looking to convert them to Spittyism. All I'm doing is figuratively raising my hand, extending my finger and going "look, over there...that's an asshole." That's all it is. Whether or not you feel like I called you an asshole is moot, if what we're really discussing is this inherent sexism.

I mostly expressed my opinion that in GENERAL, as in most of the time, not all the time, many female gamers I've met are slightly less hardcore than men. It's just a fact of reality that most pro gamers, as in people paid to play, are men. You can debate the reasoning behind that, it doesn't actually matter why it is or isn't. It's just a fact of reality.

You feel the need to quantify your own statement fivefold before you agree with it. Does that strike you as odd?

Being more casual is not a bad thing in itself. I never said females are worse at games than men. But generally I am more likely on a subconscious level to be more cautious I suppose of a female gamer, I need to first see how they play.

No, you are doing this on a conscious level. You are so fully aware of your need to qualify a female gamer that you're telling a random person about it, in detail, on a message board.

I wanted to show that I do think that there is a grey area... it is alright to openly express your opinions if the situation is appropriate, it is not okay to be openly hateful towards other people.

This isn't about hate - there's clearly enough of that around. This is about you claiming to be a white-knight in the daunting face of sexism despite the fact that you're guarding the door to the boy's club when it comes to gaming.

I dislike when people openly hate females and no one does anything about it. I think that kind of behavior should be called out.

You and I are very much on the same page with this statement. I feel I personify it a little better than you do, though.

I think it becomes an issue when you have people saying things like "fuck all these whores"

I think that when the time comes when you can make your point without resorting to using this phrase in any capacity, then you will have made progress.

[Spitty]

I just picked out his one line which he basically said that most people on the internet are "piles of excrement that managed to use a keyboard". I feel like if someone thinks this way about other people, it's going to be hard for me to come to any understanding on a point with them. Someone who thinks this way is not going to spend the time to listen to what you have to say.

I also forgot to add, this is not really much different from someone who calls all women whores. Which is why I can't understand why someone would say something like that and then defend another group of people. It just feels so hypocritical.

Sorry, I missed this gem until right now. I was too busy spending time reading your post and considering what you had to say.

I do appreciate your picking out one line from my posts and basing our entire interaction around it. If I had known that would be the only thing you'd take so seriously, I would have passed on adding it to my post.

[Roth]

Sorry, I missed this gem until right now. I was too busy spending time reading your post and considering what you had to say.

I do appreciate your picking out one line from my posts and basing our entire interaction around it. If I had known that would be the only thing you'd take so seriously, I would have passed on adding it to my post.

The reason why I was so careful on the wording in my reply to you before is because of how hostile you are. I'm gonna leave it at this because I've said my piece and there's no point continuing this conversation.

[Spitty]

I pointed out that you're giving yourself a high-five for taking the high road when it comes to sexism, whilst at the same time stating that you need to see a girl get into a game before, I don't know, considering them competent or something. That's contradictory.

I then take quite a bit of time to read and respond to many points you've made, in detail, whereas you key in on a single sentence I typed and then leave me with the above gem of a post. That's inconsiderate.

Do you see the position you leave me in?

Is it really any wonder that my default reaction, at least when it comes to this kind of interaction, is laced with a little bit of heat?

Maybe you couldn't, but I could have predicted with damn near 80% accuracy that we would have ended up here whether or not I chose to glad-hand you for two pages or not. I've tried that before, so I skipped the petty bullshit and got straight to the core of the discussion.

If personality and method of conversation are challenges you cannot overcome, then I would agree that we are done here.

[Sylexis]

Here you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWi5iXnguTU&feature=share) ladies (just for the ladies!) have a pick me up after reading through all that nonsense.

[Sidelle]

Here you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWi5iXnguTU&feature=share) ladies (just for the ladies!) have a pick me up after reading through all that nonsense.

I like the sentiments there for about 5 seconds. Unfortunately I happen to be attracted to the more caveman type of male apparently, because the first thought through my head when that guy started talking was "I wonder how much they paid that guy to do his hair like Edward Cullen?'

:D

[Sidelle]

I'll break down my original points

1) Having an opinion on a situation, person, or other form of thought is not bad in itself. Everyone has an opinion on something whether they would like to have one or not. Unless you are of the school of thought that gender is only a construct and there is absolutely no difference between women and men outside the physical differences, you will likely think there are minor differences between women and men. Telling this person they are an asshole or wrong isn't going to change their beliefs on the core level unless you can really convince them. It's possible to silence them, but it's hard to change their core thoughts.

2) I mostly expressed my opinion that in GENERAL, as in most of the time, not all the time, many female gamers I've met are slightly less hardcore than men. It's just a fact of reality that most pro gamers, as in people paid to play, are men. You can debate the reasoning behind that, it doesn't actually matter why it is or isn't. It's just a fact of reality.

3) I have gained some stereotypes of female gamers through experience which is what I stated in the above post. Being more casual is not a bad thing in itself. I never said females are worse at games than men. But generally I am more likely on a subconscious level to be more cautious I suppose of a female gamer, I need to first see how they play. If they are a great player I have no issues considering them as such. I have met many good female gamers.

4) I mentioned the above because originally, I wanted to show that I do not view the situation as black or white. I wanted to show that I do think that there is a grey area... it is alright to openly express your opinions if the situation is appropriate, it is not okay to be openly hateful towards other people.

5) Blatantly discrediting female gamers who have shown their skill is disrespectful to them. Also, being hateful towards females is also something I'm not a fan of. I used the word sexist but I suppose really what I should have said Is I dislike when people openly hate females and no one does anything about it. I think that kind of behavior should be called out.

6) If someone is rational and freely expressing their thoughts I do not think that in and itself is bad if they are not intentionally being hurtful or trying to degrade someone. I think it becomes an issue when you have people saying things like "fuck all these whores"

I think this was well said.

[Sidelle]

Any women of Norrath need a port? I know a nice romantic spot... And yes my wand is magical, and epic ;-)

And no I'm not being sexist :P

Please port me to Toxx so I can have a nice romantic evening by the pool in Paineel....























You can leave the Epic Wand with me at that point. Byeeee! :D

Hahaa

[Doors]

Or we're all supposedly whoring ourselves out for loot. What a bunch of bullshit.

This is my biggest complaint with female gamers. I don't mind playing with girls but nobody is going to buy this. Lot of lonely guys in Norrath, women manipulate for what they want. Seen it too many times.

[Faerie]

Here you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWi5iXnguTU&feature=share) ladies (just for the ladies!) have a pick me up after reading through all that nonsense.

The punchline never came.

[Sylexis]

I like the sentiments there for about 5 seconds. Unfortunately I happen to be attracted to the more caveman type of male apparently, because the first thought through my head when that guy started talking was "I wonder how much they paid that guy to do his hair like Edward Cullen?'

:D

Why bother with a knight in shining armor when you can have a viking in bloody chainmail?

[Sylexis]

The punchline never came.

There was no punchline.

[Splorf22]

Tomtee if I didn't know you personally I would say that story is so over the top that it must be a troll. It's one thing to be a male chauvinist a priori, its another thing to hold on to those prejudices for years in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I am kind of surprised you were unable to put your foot down, though. Did you not have the political clout for some reason?

[radditsu]

Sidelle, honey, wanna meet up in the hole later? We can dangle our legs over the bridge thingy and ...talk

[Wrench]

made a female troll char once for shits

chose the face model with the huge scrape/gash, missing eye

got some random guy runnin by sayin 'hey bby, me likes my girls big!' within 5 minutes

pretty pathetic

[Kimmie]

Here you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWi5iXnguTU&feature=share) ladies (just for the ladies!) have a pick me up after reading through all that nonsense.

Oh man, this guy is great.
Need to make a P99 Females Inspirational fraps video to this voice-over asap



Nuh uh, not me, Satan. I am a daughter of the living GOD

[August]

Tomtee if I didn't know you personally I would say that story is so over the top that it must be a troll. It's one thing to be a male chauvinist a priori, its another thing to hold on to those prejudices for years in the face of evidence to the contrary.

I am kind of surprised you were unable to put your foot down, though. Did you not have the political clout for some reason?

Well it's a longish story, but I believe that my wife was really used as a 'weak spot' to get at me. The guild I led was the ultimate product of two guilds - each of which had been spawned off of other guilds who were previously raid capable.

My lineage of guilds was there first - so we elected our officers, and leader, by democratic vote (I forgot to add this in earlier, it was already so long) - that was the model of the guild I had mentioned previously.

When we absorbed the other guild, about another 25+ people, they gained some power structure with 2 officer positions and DKP buffer. Officer / GL position were voted on every 6 months, so there was constant competition for leadership as well.

It was a weird time. I think that really they used my wife - discriminating on her gender - as a way to get at me. And for what it's worth, it totally worked.

[Kesrin]

Ajk re rolled from hunter to warlock during Burning Crusade just because she felt bad whenever she was a dps that didn't top charts. If you're not first, you're last!

Why? Hunter was top dps. Beast Mastery + steady shot macro.

God I hated our hunters and their smug superiority complex. :(

[JPMorgan]

Why bother with a knight in shining armor when you can have a viking in bloody chainmail?

I think this mentality and the contradiction it raises with regards to the majority of this thread's content should be addressed.

[Fame]

Jesus this thread is sad

[Krovax]

I will try and lighten the mood =)

On the last progression round on the Vulak'Aerr server, one of the top guilds had a female leader, Liren of League of Grand Adventures. Liren, in large part kept that servers raid scene alive as every other guild crumbled to the other top guild; who seemingly made it their mission to demoralize the servers raid scene.

If anyone has played on any of the EQLive Prog servers competitively they know just how irrational the raid scene is all the way until PoTime. As guilds fell, she managed to merge them one by one until only 2 guilds were left raiding, no easy feat to merge guilds let alone countless of them all the while staying competitive.

Vulak'Aerr server owes much of its early success to Liren's resilience and diplomacy. In retrospect, in an environment as hateful and venomous as an EQ Prog servers raid scene, there was very little sexism or womanizing going on considering the huge target.

Respect.

Krovax~

[Naena]

Why? Hunter was top dps. Beast Mastery + steady shot macro.

God I hated our hunters and their smug superiority complex. :(

It's been forever, but I think I remember whatever tier it was at the time warlocks were doing more. Or maybe it was just in 5/10s that they were doing more. Warlock with shadow priest debuff was a bitch for my warrior to keep aggro from if we had no paladin :p

[Ajkuhuun]

It's been forever, but I think I remember whatever tier it was at the time warlocks were doing more. Or maybe it was just in 5/10s that they were doing more. Warlock with shadow priest debuff was a bitch for my warrior to keep aggro from if we had no paladin :p

It was tier four I believe.

[Quineloe]

I'm being honest on my opinions and my thoughts... sorry if they aren't sugar coated to be nice sounding. I mostly meant the worst posts should have been called out. Maybe my opinion is too neutral. To clarify I meant that any broad blatantly offensive statements are over the top without any proper reasoning to back them. If someone is reasonable with their post and explain themselves it is fine, imo. Apparently what I typed wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I also was mostly directing this at people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube.

Oh to be sure, you did sugar coat your blatant sexism and chauvinism. It's just that it's pretty hard to sugar coat it to the point people don't notice it anymore, because basically it still comes down to the only reason behind your statement being the fact that they're "women"

[Sidelle]

I think this mentality and the contradiction it raises with regards to the majority of this thread's content should be addressed.

http://replygif.net/i/871.gif

[Sidelle]

Sidelle, honey, wanna meet up in the hole later? We can dangle our legs over the bridge thingy and ...talk

Maybe. But only if you've recovered from your unfortunate stomach malady. :D

[JPMorgan]

http://replygif.net/i/871.gif

Exactly.

[Kesrin]

It was tier four I believe.

Ah, I was deployed during t4, most of my experience was t5- sunwell

[tizznyres]

15 some years ago, the "real women" playing EQ were no more real than they are today.

Still not convinced there's a single female in this thread.

[Lojik]

I think I have the most controversial opinion in this thread, so sorry in advance for rustling jimmies.

I am 99% sure that more men than women play video games. Sorry it's true.

[Laledorie]

I am 99% sure that more men than women play video games. Sorry it's true.

Of course more men than women play video games, that's obvious. I don't think that necessarily means that women are just loot digging whores, just using their pixel boobs to get 1337 gear. :p

[Ajkuhuun]

Half of gamers are women, we'll 45% anyway?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/report-nearly-half-gamers-are-women/?page=all

Scandalous? I know in 2008 the ratio was 60/40 in favor of guys according to an ESA survey http://edugamesresearch.com/blog/2008/07/23/esa-survey-malefemale-gamer-ratio-is-6040-average-age-is-35/

[Edgetiq]

made a female troll char once for shits

chose the face model with the huge scrape/gash, missing eye

got some random guy runnin by sayin 'hey bby, me likes my girls big!' within 5 minutes

pretty pathetic


Bet you didn't complain when he fully geared you whilst you cyb0red with him though did you.:D

[Robdukes]

Half of gamers are women, we'll 45% anyway?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/report-nearly-half-gamers-are-women/?page=all

Scandalous? I know in 2008 the ratio was 60/40 in favor of guys according to an ESA survey http://edugamesresearch.com/blog/2008/07/23/esa-survey-malefemale-gamer-ratio-is-6040-average-age-is-35/

You can't always take a survey at face value.

Just like an article I read last night about enrollment officers at colleges misleading students and parents with surveys. Saying "Well we have a survey showing that 97% of our students end up having a job in their field within the first year of graduation" What they don't tell you is that only 47 people responded to them out of 5000 because those 47 were so happy that they did get a job that they actually sent back the survey. So out of the 47 responders 46 had gotten a job. What about the thousands that didn't respond because they were unemployed or working in fast food.

[JPMorgan]

Half of gamers are women, we'll 45% anyway?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/report-nearly-half-gamers-are-women/?page=all

Scandalous? I know in 2008 the ratio was 60/40 in favor of guys according to an ESA survey http://edugamesresearch.com/blog/2008/07/23/esa-survey-malefemale-gamer-ratio-is-6040-average-age-is-35/

There is no way those figures apply to p99. I don't think playing cookie crusher (thanks Sirk, couldn't recall the name) constitutes a gamer, either.

I love the other omnipresent, sexist stereotype in the article: "Gaming isn’t just for teenage boys holed up in basements".

[Spitty]

I love the other omnipresent, sexist stereotype in the article: "Gaming isn’t just for teenage boys holed up in basements".

I will fucking fight the Washington Post just as soon as I get my license and graduate and leave the basement. Just you wait.

[Wrench]

Bet you didn't complain when he fully geared you whilst you cyb0red with him though did you.:D

close

i forgot to ask for the pixels tho

[JPMorgan]

I will fucking fight the Washington Post just as soon as I get my license and graduate and leave the basement. Just you wait.

lol

[Quineloe]

Half of gamers are women, we'll 45% anyway?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/report-nearly-half-gamers-are-women/?page=all

Scandalous? I know in 2008 the ratio was 60/40 in favor of guys according to an ESA survey http://edugamesresearch.com/blog/2008/07/23/esa-survey-malefemale-gamer-ratio-is-6040-average-age-is-35/
Would not read too much into these "studies", since women that accidentally once launched minesweeper and clicked until they died answer yes, a guy I used to work with who would play an actual game for half a day, but only two to three times a year, considered himself not a gamer and would have probably answered No.

A more interesting question would be if you've purchased a game worth more than $20 (initial retail price, not slashed) the last 24 months. Or pirated one. Pretty sure the numbers be very different, but no one wants to see (pay for) those studies

[Sirken]

Half of gamers are women, we'll 45% anyway?

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/report-nearly-half-gamers-are-women/?page=all

Scandalous? I know in 2008 the ratio was 60/40 in favor of guys according to an ESA survey http://edugamesresearch.com/blog/2008/07/23/esa-survey-malefemale-gamer-ratio-is-6040-average-age-is-35/

the problem with your stat is that they are counting dumb ass phone app games, and games like fucking cookie crusher. if they were only counting console and PC (masterrace) games, those numbers would be much different.

[Lojik]

the problem with your stat is that they are counting dumb ass phone app games, and games like fucking cookie crusher. if they were only counting console and PC (masterrace) games, those numbers would be much different.

Need ur help setting up a rotation for cookie crusher sirks

[Ajkuhuun]

You know no matter what statistics or facts or experiences people bring to this thread isn't going to matter at this point. There's the die hard boys club camp on one side, white knight wannabes on another, hardcore feminists, girls who just want to play and their male counterparts regardless of your groups sex and I think it's fairly impossible to sway the opinions of any of them. I think out of all the posts I like Spitty's the most, we'll thought out, to the point and zero bullshit.

In an ideal gaming community which may or may not exist somewhere down the line, it won't matter anymore what sex you are. That time isn't now though, and I think this thread is a testament to it.

Really don't think I have anything else to contribute to it, some folks probably feel I didn't have any in the first place but that's ok. At the end of the day I get on to game, have fun in the few hours I can, then get back to the real world, and I think that's something we can agree that regardless of sex at this stage of the game most of us have in common.

[Ugrask]

You know no matter what statistics or facts or experiences people bring to this thread isn't going to matter at this point. There's the die hard boys club camp on one side, white knight wannabes on another, hardcore feminists, girls who just want to play and their male counterparts regardless of your groups sex and I think it's fairly impossible to sway the opinions of any of them. I think out of all the posts I like Spitty's the most, we'll thought out, to the point and zero bullshit.

In an ideal gaming community which may or may not exist somewhere down the line, it won't matter anymore what sex you are. That time isn't now though, and I think this thread is a testament to it.

Really don't think I have anything else to contribute to it, some folks probably feel I didn't have any in the first place but that's ok. At the end of the day I get on to game, have fun in the few hours I can, then get back to the real world, and I think that's something we can agree that regardless of sex at this stage of the game most of us have in common.

Sex/Gender will always matter, because of "sex". It will just take on different tones.

That aside, I think a lot of the "men are better" stems from stupid ideals about the rest of activities outside of a PC. Sports used to be pretty male dominated, and so was gaming. Now, not so much on the sports, but it still exists and so people hold on to that prejudice which makes FAR less sense in the gaming world...since its not a matter of physical ability.

But because gamers had the stigma of basement dwelling virgins the idea of being used by women came out as well..it's all bullshit that people just don't let go of. Some people do use other people, but its on both sides. The men are trying to get something out of their "generosity" so they are just as bad.

[August]

Aren't there a lot of non-gaming specific reasons that would skew a distribution of gamers?

My wife works in psychology so we have these discussions a lot. When we play a game, my wife is way more excited about actually playing the game with me (ostensibly).

When I play, i'm way more stoked about winning. If i'm playing Settlers of Catan with my lame friends (all my friends are lame because I am lame) I'm very excited to win. If I don't win, i'm pretty much in a grumpy mood. As are all my male friends that sit around the table.

My wife, and my friends wives/gfs, are usually chatty afterwards and have a good time no matter what, and seemingly don't care if they win. To me this is a pretty standard occurrence, and I think that it really does play a role in being a 'hardcore' gamer. There's no question that people at the top end of any gaming sphere are there to compete and to win. If there's less motivation towards conflict (winning), I can see why female gamer distribution tends to favor more interactive facebook / phone games where the actual act of 'playing' is what is cherished.

That's not to say that women can't be competitive, or can't be just as good as men at gaming. I'm just saying that stereotypes typically stem from experience on a broad scale, and there's got to be something substantial behind it.

For what it's worth my wife is merciless @ Scrabble, and has been known to throw fits of rage when I score a 2x Triple Word Score with 7 of my letters. It was 'Goodwife' - best night of my life and highest Scrabble move i've ever made.

[Duckwalk]

40 man raids cut down to 10 and coveted dps spot is given to guild leaders wife who puts up lowest damage in a known bad spec all while trying to compete for server firsts.....seems legit.

[August]

40 man raids cut down to 10 and guild leaders wife is the lowest dps in a known badspec all while trying to compete for server firsts.....sounds legit.

Which part, exactly, is not legit? It cut to 25, btw. Karazhan was the first 10-man that was side by side w/ Mag+Gruul, and the major raids were all 25-man. We kept 2 forces (A/B) and countless Karazhan groups.

[radditsu]

Maybe. But only if you've recovered from your unfortunate stomach malady. :D

My body is ready.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

My body is ready.

But the anus is spongy and bruised.

[radditsu]

But the anus is spongy and bruised.

Soft tissue heals quick!

[Champion_Standing]

the problem with your stat is that they are counting dumb ass phone app games, and games like fucking cookie crusher. if they were only counting console and PC (masterrace) games, those numbers would be much different.

I work with a women who identifies herself as a gamer because she plays candy crush. I almost barfed when I first heard her say it.

[Swish]

I work with a women who identifies herself as a gamer because she plays candy crush. I almost barfed when I first heard her say it.

lol

[Lictor]

We were in a guild that was originally formed in WC3 that was the first guild to down Onyxia. Leader was an asshat, we reformed. That leader was an asshat, and then we reformed again. I was elected leader.

So you were the top guild on horde side, or were competing to be top guild from launch till burning crusade.

When she hit max level, i knew she could raid - I'd seen her play in all the dungeons up to raid, and we were critically short on warlocks. If you played during molten core, you would know how essential warlocks were in so many battles. I petitioned to let her move to from a 'casual' rank to a 'raider' rank.

I do not know how your server worked around MC, but as the top guild horde side on Blackrock, we had multiple applications from various classes to fill any raiding need most with some type of gear/experience.

At first it was just called out as blatant favoritism. "The guild leader's whore" - this was a term that people used. Mainly behind my back, but of course I would find out. We were on progression mobs which entailed many, many wipes. The overreaction to any wipe caused by her, in comparison to the multitude of wipes caused by a LOT of our raiding members, was out of this world.

The guild leader's girl friend with no experience or gear jumps to an active raider over other qualified people in the guild who have been waiting/farming gear for a raiding spot. You don't understand why people complained or overreacted to this scenario?

When TBC came out we all leveled up and she decided to reroll into a new class. She had the alt, a shaman, already geared up from alt runs.

At the time, she was playing a very unpopular spec - the 'elemental shaman'. Those of you who might remember, there was a time when ele shamans only had 1 instant, no DoTs, and no way to cast while they moved. Blizzard has since rectified this issue, but the overarching complaint was that on movement based fights (read: all) ele shaman just couldn't keep up. Analysis showed them bottom of DPS, just below boomkins.

Guild leader knowingly allows girlfriend to play the worst possible dps spec/class in the game. On an alt no less, which more than likely has worse gear then the previously raid equiped main spec toon, which people already resented gearing up in the first place.

Yes 10 new levels in BC, all new gear; however, I recall still having some naxx 40 items on when i went to karazhan. Although, I could be mistaken on this.

So we got to raiding shortly after TBC released, Karazhan, and that's when the shit storm blew up once again. Coming in at 6th place, even though she was off by maybe a half percent of total dmg from 5th, was a huge confidence killer. She was ridiculed for being 'bad' at her class. Melee shamans were way outperforming at this point, and her contribution was being downplayed. Never mind the fact that she was part of a group that was server first to clear Kara

Server first to clear Kara. You are still in a highly competitive raid scene. Your guild downsized with the release of BC from 40 man raid force to 25. There is now more competition for raid slots. Further, Kara is only 10 man. Making the server first 10 man spots even more competitive.

What was Kara like, 2 tanks/3 healers/2 dps with CC/ and 3 flex spots? So your girlfriend's alt reroll with blue quest gear, the lowest performing dps per your damage meters, and has the non maximum dps cookie cutter spec takes one of those 3 spots?

- that she played a class with tangible benefits to our caster dps -- that she had clutch instant heals when needed -- that she provided bloodlust and never fucked up -- her marginally less dps than the mage was enough for her to get tormented by members of our guild. It goes without saying that on times she raided with 'pugs' she was number 1 dps by a wide margin.

Overlooking the above flaw is OK because she could click bloodlust when told to? A melee shm can click bloodlust and bring "outperforming" dps.

A mage brings more dps and a mage could hard CC. Which at the time was a big deal. Not sure your argument on this one.

She out dps pugs who just faceroll their keyboards? Again solid argument.

I'm 100% positive it was conflated with me being the guild leader. Back then, leader was a full-time job for me in addition to anything else I had going on. A 40 man raid meant at least 66 active raiders, constant recruitment, and tons of drama.

It absolutely had to do with the entanglement of being the guild leader.

I could care less how you use your interweb powerz, and/or feel the need to e-defend your wife; however, acting like you were never in the wrong and there was zero justification for the reaction others gave you in a competitive server first guild is just comical. Take off the rose colored glasses.

[Danth]

Don't know what Candy Crush is, but a video game is a video game. Doesn't matter if other folks respect the system/format or not. I still play "Atlantis" and other games for the Atari VCS (via emulator) on occasion. That's still a video game too. Think I might start my little daughter out on that system in another year or so. Those old, simplistic games strike me as much better children's games than most modern alternatives.

Guys tend to stereotype women as inept because there historically weren't all that many women gamers, and pretty much all of us have too much bad experience with "Dude X's useless girlfriend." That perception will change over time as more women adopt online gaming, but perception always lags behind reality.

Danth

[Champion_Standing]

Don't know what Candy Crush is, but a video game is a video game. Doesn't matter if other folks respect the system/format or not. I still play "Atlantis" and other games for the Atari VCS (via emulator) on occasion. That's still a video game too. Think I might start my little daughter out on that system in another year or so. Those old, simplistic games strike me as much better children's games than most modern alternatives.

Guys tend to stereotype women as inept because there historically weren't all that many women gamers, and pretty much all of us have too much bad experience with "Dude X's useless girlfriend." That perception will change over time as more women adopt online gaming, but perception always lags behind reality.

Danth

I think a certain level of interest in games and gaming in general is required for someone to call themselves a gamer. A lot of people play video games, but not all of them are gamers.

[radditsu]

Labeling yourself is the dumbest thing. Especially if you WANT to be associated with a typically mysogonist, arrogant, sweaty, ill tempered, ill kempt, dreg of society.

I love games and I love eq...but screw that noise.

[radditsu]

I have told my WIFE three times what I was doing ever on a video game.


1. Killing a dragon
2. Killing a giant
3. Mezzing snakes on an emp raid.


Nobody knows my business.

[Champion_Standing]

Labeling yourself is the dumbest thing. Especially if you WANT to be associated with a typically mysogonist, arrogant, sweaty, ill tempered, ill kempt, dreg of society.

I love games and I love eq...but screw that noise.

Sorry you smelly fatass, you are a gamer. Consider yourself labeled.

[Ahldagor]

Sorry you smelly fatass, you are a gamer. Consider yourself labeled.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Order-Things-Archaeology-Sciences/dp/0679753354

read that for labeling purposes

[JPMorgan]

Don't know what Candy Crush is, but a video game is a video game.

I think it matters when the claim that nearly half of all gamers are women is being made.

[August]

<Bunch of unfounded statements>

I could care less how you use your interweb powerz, and/or feel the need to e-defend your wife; however, acting like you were never in the wrong and there was zero justification for the reaction others gave you in a competitive server first guild is just comical. Take off the rose colored glasses.

First, check your history. Pre-TBC non-resto shamans were relegated to PvP. Ele/Enh spec 'raiding' shamans were new in TBC. No way we could have known there needed to be tweaks and that her spec would be 'the worst'.

Second, I'm not going to continue hashing out old drama that is specific to me and your interpretation of it. I get it, you think there was foul play and that she was 'stealing other people's spots they farmed for'. All I can say is, no, she was voted in after i petitioned to change her rank, and that she had 95%+ attendance over 2 years with us.

My whole point was that she carried her weight in every aspect. I'm sorry you don't think she did based on some interpretation of what I said.

[JPMorgan]

First, check your history. Pre-TBC non-resto shamans were relegated to PvP. No way we could have known there needed to be tweaks and that her spec would be 'the worst'.

Common knowledge.

[Duckwalk]

I like the part when you admit enhance shm were face rolling to higher dps and equal utility but defend your girlfriend's desire to play as a flawed, under performing snowflake in your Kara first group at the expense of better geared, more veteran raiders.

Why again weren't people super cool with that?

Take off the rose colored glasses.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I like the part when you admit enhance shm were face rolling to higher dps and equal utility but defend your girlfriend's desire to play as a flawed, under performing snowflake in your Kara first group at the expense of better geared, more veteran raiders.

Why again weren't people super cool with that?

Because kara past the first few times you did it was piss easy. Better to bring in people to get gear there who you will most likely never take past gruul/mag. Unless you're a bleeding edge guild it wasn't about the encounters or the mobs, but about the people you ran it with.

[JPMorgan]

Because kara past the first few times you did it was piss easy. Better to bring in people to get gear there who you will most likely never take past gruul/mag. Unless you're a bleeding edge guild it wasn't about the encounters or the mobs, but about the people you ran it with.

I was under the impression that this was the first few times they were running Kara.

Originally Posted by August
When TBC came out we all leveled up and she decided to reroll into a new class. She had the alt, a shaman, already geared up from alt runs.

[Duckwalk]

Because kara past the first few times you did it was piss easy. Better to bring in people to get gear there who you will most likely never take past gruul/mag. Unless you're a bleeding edge guild it wasn't about the encounters or the mobs, but about the people you ran it with.

Please don't make me go back and quote all the times server first was mentioned in his post.

Youre right though, clearly it's unreasonable for the 25-30ish established raiders in one of the top guilds on the server to be frustrated at guildleader and his girlfriend for bringing an under geared alt shaman in a known (and self admitted) bad spec while competing for progression/server firsts.

Additionally, girlfriends special snowflake spec parses lowest damage while alternate specs easily out damage it and provide essentially the exact same utility.

But please, tell us how there was no indication of favoritism or impropriety from the guildleader.

[Sylexis]

3. Mezzing snakes on an emp raid.


Geez, that brings back memories. Not all good either :eek:

[Swish]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/09/097c9411a62c32d283d912bcd7b7db5d9cb30a5605eb51a70c aabeb7b839ecd1.jpg

[Ahldagor]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a4/a4d2d8a203e4246fa894f575a040084f3c0c17205ff6c109bc 33ab313db2e13a.jpg

[Joyelle]

Geez, that brings back memories. Not all good either :eek:

lol same here

[cries4hardcore]

Hmmmm. Time to be an asshole. So female gamers don't like men treating them specially in game like men do to attractive women in rl? I'm sure most female gamers are not, frankly, particularly attractive(nor are most male gamers). Having said that, to women who have had creepy experiences. You have to realize, to make players who are hardcore and pretty much never step outside, you are the only thing close to female interaction for them. It should be pretty expected that they will form crushes and that some will be creepy and obsessive because, even if some gamers have generally matured, most tend to be sexually retarded.

[Ahldagor]

Hmmmm. Time to be an asshole. So female gamers don't like men treating them specially in game like men do to attractive women in rl? I'm sure most female gamers are not, frankly, particularly attractive(nor are most male gamers). Having said that, to women who have had creepy experiences. You have to realize, to make players who are hardcore and pretty much never step outside, you are the only thing close to female interaction for them. It should be pretty expected that they will form crushes and that some will be creepy and obsessive because, even if some gamers have generally matured, most tend to be sexually retarded.

^tldr:

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a4/a4d2d8a203e4246fa894f575a040084f3c0c17205ff6c109bc 33ab313db2e13a.jpg

[JPMorgan]

Hmmmm. Time to be an asshole. So female gamers don't like men treating them specially in game like men do to attractive women in rl? I'm sure most female gamers are not, frankly, particularly attractive(nor are most male gamers). Having said that, to women who have had creepy experiences. You have to realize, to make players who are hardcore and pretty much never step outside, you are the only thing close to female interaction for them. It should be pretty expected that they will form crushes and that some will be creepy and obsessive because, even if some gamers have generally matured, most tend to be sexually retarded.

I was thinking about this earlier. Obviously a socially inept, needy male isn't going to do well in attracting women in any situation. However, men are primarily expected to initiate dialogue with women: it's an observable cultural norm that spans nearly all walks of life. For a lot of male gamers the MMO scene serves the same purpose as a bar, library, park or work environment in as far as finding a potential partner goes.

I don't think the claim that EQ is a game, and therefore you should only be here to play, has any validity. If this were the case then the same would apply to the above environments that I listed. Aren't these the places single adults are supposed to meet one another? Does it seem irrational to seek out a potential partner with shared interests?

It just seems narrow minded to be offended by the fact that men will show interest in women who game. It's like the holy grail for a lot of guys. Finding a woman who tolerates your considerable dedication to a digital world is hard enough: finding one that wants to share it is priceless. I've had a few friends who have met their significant others over MMOs. One of those couples even met on live.

Some men are going to be bad at picking up women. Figure out how to bust their balls enough so that they leave you alone. Sounds unfair? Men have the unfair assignment of having to go out of their way to approach and impress women while risking humiliation. Some women go to the beach just to surf, others go to bars just to drink: if you're here just to game then you'll have to figure out avoid unwanted attention just like they do.

I really like how Aj put it:


...if it was some hot guy and not some comicon nerd coming up to flirt with you, you wouldn't have a problem with it, so cut the bullshit...

Even if it's slightly out of context, it still applies.

[heartbrand]

Red Dawn on red99 is in dire need of female players in order to be more diverse. Anyone who wants to help us with this noble goal please shoot me a pm.

[Sidelle]

I was thinking about this earlier. Obviously a socially inept, needy male isn't going to do well in attracting women in any situation. However, men are primarily expected to initiate dialogue with women: it's an observable cultural norm that spans nearly all walks of life. For a lot of male gamers the MMO scene serves the same purpose as a bar, library, park or work environment in as far as finding a potential partner goes.

I don't think the claim that EQ is a game, and therefore you should only be here to play, has any validity. If this were the case then the same would apply to the above environments that I listed. Aren't these the places single adults are supposed to meet one another? Does it seem irrational to seek out a potential partner with shared interests?

It just seems narrow minded to be offended by the fact that men will show interest in women who game. It's like the holy grail for a lot of guys. Finding a woman who tolerates your considerable dedication to a digital world is hard enough: finding one that wants to share it is priceless. I've had a few friends who have met their significant others over MMOs. One of those couples even met on live.

Some men are going to be bad at picking up women. Figure out how to bust their balls enough so that they leave you alone. Sounds unfair? Men have the unfair assignment of having to go out of their way to approach and impress women while risking humiliation. Some women go to the beach just to surf, others go to bars just to drink: if you're here just to game then you'll have to figure out avoid unwanted attention just like they do.

I really like how Aj put it:



Even if it's slightly out of context, it still applies.

In my opinion the vast majority of males here are not seriously looking to hook up irl with girls they meet in EQ. It seems silly and unfair to just assume they all want to do that. Do some of them try? Uh... Yep... but I think it's pretty rare to come across those types in game.

I've met some really cool people since I started here, guys and girls alike, who sincerely just enjoy playing the game and aren't out there looking to hook up with anyone. Though I will say this: there is some flirting that happens sometimes when guys and girls hang out together, but I pretty much view that as innocent fun and I don't take it seriously and don't think most other people do either. Same goes for real life. You throw some boys and girls together whether it's at work, school, whatever - there is gonna be some (mostly innocent) flirting.

The forums are a different story, RnF in particular... This is where the creepy/pervy stuff happens. :D Some of it's pretty cringeworthy but I don't take much of it seriously either.

P.S. It would be interesting if there were some statistics out there stating just how many people hook up for real in this game. It has been known to happen, that's for sure...

[Sidelle]

Red Dawn on red99 is in dire need of female players in order to be more diverse. Anyone who wants to help us with this noble goal please shoot me a pm.

^^ Lol :rolleyes:

[paulgiamatti]

Just popping in to say that after perusing this thread I've found that even the more socially progressive and ostensibly tolerant posts are frighteningly misogynistic and sexist. I'm glad I barely ever run into most of you in game.

[Quineloe]

Red Dawn on red99 is in dire need of female players in order to be more diverse. Anyone who wants to help us with this noble goal please shoot me a pm.

can you name a single player on blue who wants to play on red99 and is currently not playing there?

[JPMorgan]

In my opinion the vast majority of males here are not seriously looking to hook up irl with girls they meet in EQ.

I could see p99 playing host to a fewer numbers of guys looking for significant others/flings when compared to other MMOs. But, that was why I tried to phrase most of my to be about MMOs in general.

P.S. It would be interesting if there were some statistics out there stating just how many people hook up for real in this game. It has been known to happen, that's for sure...

I would be interested in seeing those numbers too. I'll admit that I had once when I was younger. Now it's something that I doubt that I would ever pursue again. I can just sort of relate to the guys who do feel that an MMO is capable of providing a positive environment for romance -- maybe not this MMO -- and I don't like seeing them all lumped together with the degenerates that harass strangers about their shoe size.

[JPMorgan]

Just popping in to say that after perusing this thread I've found that even the more socially progressive and ostensibly tolerant posts are frighteningly misogynistic and sexist. I'm glad I barely ever run into most of you in game.

"You're all terrible, even when you try not to be, but I won't tell you why."

[Vlak]

I was thinking about this earlier. Obviously a socially inept, needy male isn't going to do well in attracting women in any situation. However, men are primarily expected to initiate dialogue with women: it's an observable cultural norm that spans nearly all walks of life. For a lot of male gamers the MMO scene serves the same purpose as a bar, library, park or work environment in as far as finding a potential partner goes.

I don't think the claim that EQ is a game, and therefore you should only be here to play, has any validity. If this were the case then the same would apply to the above environments that I listed. Aren't these the places single adults are supposed to meet one another? Does it seem irrational to seek out a potential partner with shared interests?

It just seems narrow minded to be offended by the fact that men will show interest in women who game. It's like the holy grail for a lot of guys. Finding a woman who tolerates your considerable dedication to a digital world is hard enough: finding one that wants to share it is priceless. I've had a few friends who have met their significant others over MMOs. One of those couples even met on live.

Some men are going to be bad at picking up women. Figure out how to bust their balls enough so that they leave you alone. Sounds unfair? Men have the unfair assignment of having to go out of their way to approach and impress women while risking humiliation. Some women go to the beach just to surf, others go to bars just to drink: if you're here just to game then you'll have to figure out avoid unwanted attention just like they do.

I really like how Aj put it:



Even if it's slightly out of context, it still applies.

tl;dr; Society's norms do not absolve anyone of responsibility for their actions nor are they a reason someone else should have to put up with bullshit. Take responsibility for your actions and lead by example.

Sounds like this post is trying to say "Shut up and figure out how to deal with it, ladies. We guys have it hard enough as it is."

This post mentions an observable cultural norm that men are supposed to approach women and not the other way around. Well, let's think about that, why does this norm exist? Is it biologically-based or is it, as you say, cultural, and therefore in the realm of control by its constituent individuals?

Feel like you (general you, not calling out JP specifically) have too much of a burden placed on you, as a man, to approach and talk to women? If there's a norm for you to approach a woman, what about a woman who goes out to approach a man? It's not normative by your own definition, so I'd say it's even more difficult for her. So "shut up and figure out how to deal with it, dudes. Ladies have it hard enough as it is."

That said, I agree that showing interest in someone online is not, inherently, offensive. The manner of expression, or its frequency is an entirely different matter.

Also, being interested in someone, even in-game, just because they're a female? It's the RL equivalent of going into a library full of strangers and chatting up every woman you see. Yes you're all in the same place likely with the same purpose, maybe even the same interest, but your only real reason for talking to them is that they are all female. Seem a bit off?

[radditsu]

Ive rarely had a good experience with women who are the girlfriend of my gaming friends. I find it hard to call them out on shit due to personal relationships. I however expect that to be rare. Not the norm. Gaming equality requires someone to be able to be called a "Dick
Butt" for not picking up that offtank, and a "dick cunt" if the female can't puck it up. Gaming culture is not humane, or decent. The games are not humane or decent. Any aficionados of digital bloodsport should take the culture or groom a corner of the culture the way they see fit(advertising a server or creating a good circle). Unless it turns into harrasment or stalking, calling an idiot an idiot should be fair game.


Ya idiots. Postin in a troll thread.

[Hollywood]

I recently got in a discussion with some of my friends about how awful sour grapes antagonizing neckbeards and white-knight neckbeards are in WoW and LoL. Was wondering what sort of things you guys face or if you have any funny/disturbing stories about being female in EQ?

What I find curious is why would 'evil neckbeards' harass a female player - without knowing she was female?
Additionally, since we know most female characters are male, then I'd suspect people are more cautious about assuming the player is actually female.

Ultimately, it's very easy -especially in a text driven game like EQ- that no one will ever know unless you tell them - and why would you do that when you know it provides no direct benefit and only opens the door to complications?

The reality it's about adoration and adulation. Women only give that information out because it suits them to some degree or some purpose.
Best thing a chick can do is play a male character - solved.

[khanable]

P.S. It would be interesting if there were some statistics out there stating just how many people hook up for real in this game. It has been known to happen, that's for sure...

I personally know of 6 RL relationships that started on p99

true story

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Cucumbers and Heallun 2014. Send out the cards.

[JPMorgan]

This post mentions an observable cultural norm that men are supposed to approach women and not the other way around. Well, let's think about that, why does this norm exist? Is it biologically-based or is it, as you say, cultural, and therefore in the realm of control by its constituent individuals?

If there's a norm for you to approach a woman, what about a woman who goes out to approach a man? It's not normative by your own definition, so I'd say it's even more difficult for her.

This is might be true, I wouldn't know. Although, the reason I didn't address it is not because it's something that's not tolerated: it simply isn't expected. I don't think there is going to be a public uproar over a female player approaching a male player.

That said, I agree that showing interest in someone online is not, inherently, offensive. The manner of expression, or its frequency is an entirely different matter.

Yes.

Also, being interested in someone, even in-game, just because they're a female? It's the RL equivalent of going into a library full of strangers and chatting up every woman you see. Yes you're all in the same place likely with the same purpose, maybe even the same interest, but your only real reason for talking to them is that they are all female. Seem a bit off?

Men do this. And not just shitty ones, either. If you have an all male work environment, and your only friends are men, their girl friends, wives and other women in relationships, then you need to intentionally locate a pool of eligible candidates in the event that you want a relationship. Of course they're going to talk to all the women in the same place with the same potential interests as themselves: assuming they have the motivation to. How else are they supposed to learn more about them? And as you suggested, it might be even harder for these hypothetical women to approach the man, so someone has to do it.

Somewhere down the line the majority of us would have never have been born if men just figured, "oh, I better not talk to this woman I've never met before." I'd also like to add that finding a woman with similar interests is probably a more modern invention. Before the prerequisites were probably limited to:

I bet she looks good naked.
Her father is an important person.
She seems like the kind of woman who knows how to maintain clean a hose hold.
Objectification etc.

[sox7d]

Women don't approach men because it's socially looked down upon. It's already socially looked down upon for men, though nobody explicitly says so. Women don't because they don't absolutely have to.

[Champion_Standing]

I personally know of 6 RL relationships that started on p99

true story

And they were all with the same woman.

[JPMorgan]

Women don't approach men because it's socially looked down upon. It's already socially looked down upon for men, though nobody explicitly says so. Women don't because they don't absolutely have to.

I think the people who look down upon it are mostly the older crowd whose presence and opinion in most scenarios is irrelevant. Fortunately, with our generation its a stigma that is starting to fade. I myself and some of my buddies have been approached on a few occasions, but the number is no where near the frequency of which we've approached someone.

It's true though, even as it is becoming more socially acceptable: women will continue to lack the absolute need to approach men.

[Schnitzel]

My husband and I met in game in 2001 and got married in 2002. When we met we lived on different continents.

Our original retirement post:
http://tinyurl.com/o4gfyhf

We have a great life and the happiest marriage of anyone I know. All thanks to EQ!

[Gadwen]

My husband and I met in game in 2001 and got married in 2002. When we met we lived on different continents.

Our original retirement post:
http://tinyurl.com/o4gfyhf

We have a great life and the happiest marriage of anyone I know. All thanks to EQ!

I grew up with a guy that ended up marrying someone he met on EQ. He was 19 and she was roughly twice his age. He eventually moved across the country to live with her. It was a few friends and myself that got him started on the game, we thought it was hilarious, his family did not. But they are still married and afaik the family eventually accepted his Everquest bride.

[Ahldagor]

I grew up with a guy that ended up marrying someone he met on EQ. He was 19 and she was roughly twice his age. He eventually moved across the country to live with her. It was a few friends and myself that got him started on the game, we thought it was hilarious, his family did not. But they are still married and afaik the family eventually accepted his Everquest bride.

ol boy found himself a damn good sugar momma. sehr gut on his part *raises glass*

[HujuVanikil]

There's a lot of misogyny and guys think it's funny. There's a reason I play a male toon.

[khanable]

And they were all with the same woman.

negative

[Spitty]

And they were all with the same woman.

Multi-boxing is a bannable offense in the game of Monogamy.

[Splorf22]

Women don't approach men because it's socially looked down upon.

Women don't approach men because they don't have to. Talking to a stranger or risking a humiliating rejection in front of your social group are (with good reason) frightening and unpleasant events. Fortunately for women, even the most homely 25 year old girl will have a few suitors. Men would sit in the corner forever.

[Ahldagor]

explains everything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio