chardok etiquette

[Manticmuse]

If Chardok is being AE'd once every 20-30 minutes or so, are the camps technically open to groups? Some monks may want to camp the pipe themselves. It is supposed to be an epic quest not an epic purchase.

If camps are considered open then what happens if a group moves in to the lev tunnel to camp the betrayer? Can the AE groups pull without training the group, or does it only work if they take that path? What are the consequences of training a group in that way, if any?

[Daldaen]

The general rule, is if you are pulling stuff shortly after it spawns those mobs are yours.

I think your best bet would be to take the camp once the AE group has a lull... loses a character and doesnt do a pull shortly after respawns and leaves em up for 5+ min.

Although, IMO, you should be able to snipe the betrayer regardless.

[HethGnome]

I think the general rule is actually that you have to be physically present at or very near the spawn point of the mobs you are camping. Although I don't know how GMs would apply that rule to Chardok AE.

[radditsu]

Ain't no rules in chardok.

[Gadwen]

As far as server rules go? If you see the camp you want and nobody is there, you can claim it. Doesn't really matter what else is going on in the zone, if they aren't sitting on that spawn waiting for it they have no right to claim it.

In this kind of situation I don't really see going in and taking the camp under these rules as being a rule lawyering prick, traditional exp groups and people camping quest items for themselves should be the ones claiming camps, not people AEing or PLing.

[Pullyn]

If you need the pipe just set up near where he spawns and clear trash. The AE group has no claim to the camp while sitting at the entrance. Its that simple. Although you will likely have to bring your own pals as nobody is ever xping legitimately down there.

[Castigate]

From my experience betrayer groups tend to approach the situation as a moral battle while AE groups just let them have it as long as they don't fuck with the pull. There's plenty of out of the way spots you can sit, while still keeping down all the PH's, without getting trained. If you physically camp in the way of their train you're gonna have a bad time. You get warned about their pull in both shout and ooc for 2-3 minutes straight before it happens, so it really shouldn't ever be an issue.

I've never heard of an AE group getting in trouble because of training a betrayer group, but I have seen betrayer groups threaten to petition within 30 seconds of zoning into Chardok many times.

[Pint]

Go camp it during ae grp, get trained then petition and find out first hand. The ae grp can't claim the betrayer but they are also don't going to think twice about whether or not your going to get trained or how many times you die trying. In my experience the ae grp will simply let you wait and loot a pipe for free to avoid the issue altogether.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

That fucking monk pipe...The shit is like 5k. If you can't afford that you've got bigger problems than an epic. Or you can just hang around and loot one but it generally isn't worth your time.

[Pint]

Well certainly worth your time if you want your epic or your robe heallun!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Well certainly worth your time if you want your epic or your robe heallun!

You misunderstood. I'm saying you can make 5k sucking dicks somewhere in EC faster than you can begging an aoe group in chardok.

[Lyrith]

While I do agree with Heallun on this, I would more importantly say... If you are a monk NEEDING the pipe and are willing to sit in the zone and not afk all day and wait for your tell. Then the group usually has no problem handing a pipe over to a monk in need.

But if you think you are going to park your monk there and log out and expect a tell on your alt when the group gets one... You better have some good REALLY good friends in group or be dreaming.

I would always be willing to pass my roll to a monk in need, if they are there and actively at their keyboard.

[Ravager]

From my experience betrayer groups tend to approach the situation as a moral battle while AE groups just let them have it as long as they don't fuck with the pull. There's plenty of out of the way spots you can sit, while still keeping down all the PH's, without getting trained. If you physically camp in the way of their train you're gonna have a bad time. You get warned about their pull in both shout and ooc for 2-3 minutes straight before it happens, so it really shouldn't ever be an issue.

I've never heard of an AE group getting in trouble because of training a betrayer group, but I have seen betrayer groups threaten to petition within 30 seconds of zoning into Chardok many times.

A warning is no excuse to train someone. If a group wants to AE there, they should be respectful of whoever is there first and try to work something out if people are "in the way" of the pull. Zone disruption is zone disruption, even in Chardok.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

A warning is no excuse to train someone. If a group wants to AE there, they should be respectful of whoever is there first and try to work something out if people are "in the way" of the pull. Zone disruption is zone disruption, even in Chardok.

The group coming for the pipe is literally never there first. They are the ones disrupting the pulls which have been ongoing. Chardok AE has made the monk epic more accessible than ever.

[Ravager]

The group coming for the pipe is literally never there first. They are the ones disrupting the pulls which have been ongoing. Chardok AE has made the monk epic more accessible than ever.

I didn't say it's not accessible. And even if the pulls were going on first, one group can't claim a whole zone.

[Swish]

While I do agree with Heallun on this, I would more importantly say... If you are a monk NEEDING the pipe and are willing to sit in the zone and not afk all day and wait for your tell. Then the group usually has no problem handing a pipe over to a monk in need.

This isn't quite true, the fact that Chardok AOE runs on making plat is a thing in itself... but they'll charge you the full MQ price for loot rights. Scumbags.

Take a group down there and camp it yourselves guys, don't line their pockets any more than they are already ;)

[Nocsucow]

You misunderstood. I'm saying you can make 5k sucking dicks somewhere in EC faster than you can begging an aoe group in chardok.

now we know how how heallun made is money :P

[tristantio]

I think the more general question here is are players allowed to train/pull mobs over other players? What is an adequate warning? Should the puller have to move around or the ones in the way? Can I pull all of a zone with a bard and run over other groups in other zones?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I think the more general question here is are players allowed to train/pull mobs over other players? What is an adequate warning? Should the puller have to move around or the ones in the way? Can I pull all of a zone with a bard and run over other groups in other zones?

Fair warning should be issued, but the same pull happens every 25 minutes for 80% of the day every day. It's not rocket science. People who stand in that are trying to be some kind of martyr.

[Ravager]

Fair warning should be issued, but the same pull happens every 25 minutes for 80% of the day every day. It's not rocket science. People who stand in that are trying to be some kind of martyr.

That, or they just want to exp in that zone the way it was meant to be. There isn't a ton of content here, it's kind of dumb to make an entire zone off limits so a half dozen people can sell pl.

[Swish]

That, or they just want to exp in that zone the way it was meant to be. There isn't a ton of content here, it's kind of dumb to make an entire zone off limits so a half dozen people can sell pl.

this ^^

I used to duo in Chardok as a cleric, with an enchanter. Had a great time in there. But no more...

[Grydworn]

Can a Zone be monopolized more than that? Oo

[ChampionRising]

I am calling all GMS to ban these chardok aoe groups. It is an exploit it is unclassic and it is plain wrong. Beware because we have groups that are going to start exping in there immediately

1

[HethGnome]

I am calling all GMS to ban these chardok aoe groups. It is an exploit it is unclassic and it is plain wrong. Beware because we have groups that are going to start exping in there immediately

1

Sarcasm?

It might be classic, but it is definitely an exploit.

[Pint]

You misunderstood. I'm saying you can make 5k sucking dicks somewhere in EC faster than you can begging an aoe group in chardok.

Dunno what part of ec your chilling in but definitely pm me the details

[radditsu]

Ban chardik

[Haynar]

Chardok AE has made the monk epic more accessible than ever.
While I partly agree. The truth is really that more people are probably happy that they dont have to get dragged there for hour on end to camp that stupid pipe.

Should give a discount to monks who pay in advance.

H

[Castigate]

That, or they just want to exp in that zone the way it was meant to be. There isn't a ton of content here, it's kind of dumb to make an entire zone off limits so a half dozen people can sell pl.

1. It's not off limits, and people have been trying to explain that this whole thread.
2. Chardok was in fact a tomb before AE groups started.

I remember going there and being the only person in the zone most of the time while was leveling. Then around when I was 56-57 AE groups started doing the 60 pull sometimes, and when they weren't doing it pretty much the only people in the zone would be ones looking to start it. I understand that some of you guys might have been among those that would get a group or a duo together and enjoy it down there, but claiming that AE groups ruined a good or popular grouping location is just false, even more-so now with all the drops in the zone not being worth anything.

[Byrjun]

The "Chardok AE complaint thread" pops up once a week. It's an interesting subject, because I'm not sure why people are so mad about Chardok AE. Do people feel like it's some sort of a "cool kid club" and they're mad that they're not invited?

I mean, there was a good period of time when pathing was completely broken and people couldn't AE chardok. Guess how many groups went to exp there? Approximately zero.

[Ravager]

1. It's not off limits, and people have been trying to explain that this whole thread.
2. Chardok was in fact a tomb before AE groups started.

I remember going there and being the only person in the zone most of the time while was leveling. Then around when I was 56-57 AE groups started doing the 60 pull sometimes, and when they weren't doing it pretty much the only people in the zone would be ones looking to start it. I understand that some of you guys might have been among those that would get a group or a duo together and enjoy it down there, but claiming that AE groups ruined a good or popular grouping location is just false, even more-so now with all the drops in the zone not being worth anything.

Runnyeye, Sol A, Upper Guk, Paw, Dalnir, Kaesora, Droga, Nurga are all just as deserted as Chardok was. Does that mean people shouldn't be pissed off when they do manage to get a group together to exp there if it get's ruined when people start pulling trains through them? Some people do actually like to dungeon crawl. I'm not saying don't AE there, I'm saying AE shouldn't be given preferential treatment to exp groups. AE is zone disruption if there are other people in the zone. It's the same thing with camps. A level 60 can camp everything in Mistmoore, but as soon as a group comes into exp, guess who has to relinquish some mobs.

[HethGnome]

The "Chardok AE complaint thread" pops up once a week. It's an interesting subject, because I'm not sure why people are so mad about Chardok AE. Do people feel like it's some sort of a "cool kid club" and they're mad that they're not invited?


It's kind of strange that the entire game is one huge grind up until level 56, don't you think? Level 59 can be done in 8 hours there, seems kind of messed up to me. Why did people get mad about mages afk xping, seems like it's in the same boat?

[Dweed]

Chardok AE groups make Pipe MQs as low as 6k and brought the staff of shielding from 28k to 5k. Monks should praise them every day.

[Ravager]

Chardok AE groups make Pipe MQs as low as 6k and brought the staff of shielding from 28k to 5k. Monks should praise them every day.

Because monks didn't have enough going for them to begin with.

[JackFlash]

chardok ae groups make pp for the people proxying and make chardok unplayable. Can't wait until revamp. Shit lasting this long is not classic.

[JPMorgan]

That fucking monk pipe...The shit is like 5k. If you can't afford that you've got bigger problems than an epic. Or you can just hang around and loot one but it generally isn't worth your time.

No.

[Rararboker]

The "Chardok AE complaint thread" pops up once a week. It's an interesting subject, because I'm not sure why people are so mad about Chardok AE. Do people feel like it's some sort of a "cool kid club" and they're mad that they're not invited?

I mean, there was a good period of time when pathing was completely broken and people couldn't AE chardok. Guess how many groups went to exp there? Approximately zero.

Confirmed, I checked every other day or so. 0 groups ever. Plus, no one else mentioned this, but AE groups don't actually pull any camps. They pull the stray mobs in the paths between some of them but otherwise the actual campable spots are always open. Just don't stand in the area where the train runs by and you would never notice an AE group was going on. They only occasionally pull the betrayer camp and that is heavily dependent on who is pulling.

[Nocsucow]

is this thread still going on.... i have seen atleast 10+ people post in this thread that i have proxied myself so quit fucking crying over bullshit

[HeallunRumblebelly]

is this thread still going on.... i have seen atleast 10+ people post in this thread that i have proxied myself so quit fucking crying over bullshit

Melee who get to 60 and get bored is all :p

[Swish]

i have seen atleast 10+ people post in this thread that i have proxied myself

Name them :p

[Hollywood]

Ain't no rules in chardok.

And this a problem.

Classic or not, all due respect to people, but it's such a cheezy way to xp and Chardok is entirely possible to camp in places with a normal group.
It's frustrating for people whom are doing it normally and have to accommodate the other groups that arrive (without bothering to send any tells and query what is camped already, or do a CC) and proceed to start cleaning up the entire place with the attitude that it belongs to them.
It doesn't fall in line with the fair play policy.

As much as I hate intervention by governing type bodies, I would have liked if they manipulated the faction on P99 so that Chardok AE wasn't possible.

[Vexenu]

This is just sour grapes combined with misplaced nostalgia. There was never any kind of grouping scene in Chardok before AOEing took off. The zone just sat there unused the vast majority of the time. That's the entire reason people started AOEing there in the first place: to minimize zone disruption and inconvenience to other players.

This is clearly more about the fact that people are jealous that 7 players are able to get ridiculous XP and make good money than any outrage about monopolizing Chardok or AOEing itself. It's really silly, though. Chardok is not some good old boy's club trying to exclude people, if you're a needed class and you sign up to get on the list you will eventually get a shot in the group. You can do this as an Enchanter, Cleric, Wizard, Magician, Necro, Monk or SK, which is half the classes in the game. It's not an overly exclusionary environment. Rather than complaining about it, try doing it yourself. It's actually pretty fun and challenging in a way that normal grinding isn't. Very high risk, high reward since the entire group can be wiped instantly if something goes wrong.

I also got a kick out of the level 53 Wizard complaining about Chardok AOE. Oh man, I have a feeling you're going to have a sudden change of heart come level 58 when that raptor XP goes to shit. Otherwise have fun begging your way into KC groups while you grind out 58 and 59 for months, instead of doing a few days of AOEing.

[element08]

Chardok is not some good old boy's club trying to exclude people ... half the classes in the game.

i've got no problem with people pulling huge trains as long as it doesn't affect other people in the zone, but this seems a bit contradictory

[HethGnome]

Very high risk, high reward since the entire group can be wiped instantly if something goes wrong.


"Very high risk." Yea, having a cleric bound outside the zone, what does it take you, 45 seconds to CR? Oh, such risk. We have to wait 10 minutes for DA to pop up again, oh the humanity.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

"Very high risk." Yea, having a cleric bound outside the zone, what does it take you, 45 seconds to CR? Oh, such risk. We have to wait 10 minutes for DA to pop up again, oh the humanity.

15! And sometimes we have to find replacements!

[Gadwen]

"Very high risk." Yea, having a cleric bound outside the zone, what does it take you, 45 seconds to CR? Oh, such risk. We have to wait 10 minutes for DA to pop up again, oh the humanity.

This made me lol

[HeallunRumblebelly]

This made me lol

As a list holder / chardok runner, it's more work than you'd think herding these cats.

[Vexenu]

i've got no problem with people pulling huge trains as long as it doesn't affect other people in the zone, but this seems a bit contradictory

How is that contradictory? Half the classes in the game are eligible to participate in an AOE group.

How many classes can main heal?

How many classes can port?

How many classes can feign death?

How many classes can tank?

Etc...

Not every class can do everything in EQ, so having fully half the classes in the game being able to join a very specialized group like an AOE group is pretty open, IMO.

Now look at the classes that left out from AOE groups: Rangers, Paladins, Druids, Shamans, Bards, Warriors, & Rogues. The first three have a hard time getting groups 50+ anyway, so they would be complaining regardless. Shaman, Bards, Rogues and Warriors are all excellent and in-demand grouping classes, though. So it's not like they have no other way to level 50+ and are shit out luck for not being able to participate in AOE.

[triad]

what is with this server .. if they dont like it they want the gm to fix it ... to make more rule more red tape ..... FFS people there are other zones quit bitching when people are doing things the way you want and move the fuck on,... biggest group of bitchy girls ive ever been around .... and i agree with the post a few post ago .. that zone had nobody in it at all ever so why the fuck should the whole sever need a new rule just because you "might" wanna go exp there ... youre just bitching to bitch at that point

[Vexenu]

As a list holder / chardok runner, it's more work than you'd think herding these cats.

This is true. If you've never done it, you have no idea what's involved. I mean, it's not rocket science, but it's more of a hassle than running a normal dungeon XP group. There's a lot to keep up with in maintaining the XP group rotation, managing the list and making sure that everyone stays on the ball, because a single mistake by anyone in the group will cause a wipe. And wiping an AOE is not a risk in the sense that you have a bad CR, but because it means you just wasted about half an hour it takes to rez up and reorganize everything. And anyone who has done Chardok AOE knows how a wipe lowers group morale, which often leads to multiple wipes in a row, at which point you start losing people. It can quickly turn into a mess if the group isn't well-managed. When I first started doing AOE I was in a poorly-run group that managed five pulls and five wipes in a three hour period. Three hours for negative XP gain. It was awful. In contrast, I once ran an extremely productive group that managed nine consecutive pulls without a wipe. So it's not like you can just show up in Chardok and are guaranteed free XP, even as a proxy. You need a good leader and competent players. The pulls and kills may look easy, but that just means that everyone in the group is doing exactly what they should be. The moment they don't, even for a second, the whole group wipes.

[stonez138]

You misunderstood. I'm saying you can make 5k sucking dicks somewhere in EC faster than you can begging an aoe group in chardok.

So that's the secret to your success? Good to know!

[sanforce]

Now look at the classes that left out from AOE groups: Rangers, Paladins, Druids, Shamans, Bards, Warriors, & Rogues.

Whoa now, all of these classes are equally accepted in chardok exp groups ... for the low cost of 2k per pull.

On a side note, I did 59 on my Iksar SK in about 6 hours yesterday. <3 chard AOE.

[Vyal]

You have about 2 minutes from the time all the mobs spawn till they are back @ the entrance being killed.
If thats enough time for you to make it to the betrayer kill it and all the other adds before the train arrives @ you I would say go for it.

[bottyburp]

I think the chardok proxy is someone intelligently looking at game mechanics and pathing very well - I think whoever cam up with it is genious!

I still don't understand however - if a group does ever go into chardok to exp doesn't the proxy group have to stop as it then turns into zone disruption? The same as if a bard is swarm kiting and a group moves into the area the bard has to move on

And to talk about training across a person or group and the GM's stance - I was petitioned once for swarming the Pit in FoB - I had to train a couple of mobs across a group and they petitioned me and the GM told me I had to avoid training groups in my pull and as there was a group there I had to move away as I was disrupting them

[Clark]

Chardok AE groups make Pipe MQs as low as 6k and brought the staff of shielding from 28k to 5k. Monks should praise them every day.

[tristantio]

Does the Manisi herb ever drop/rot or is that not in the pull normally?

[Gulliver]

at first i was like oh i have a pipe laying around ill just give this guy. then i read the thread and was all woah what a bunch of whiny bitches, that looks like a good ALTMNK PIPES

[Bill Tetley]

curse chardok ae... produces the worse players!

[jaybone]

I think the chardok proxy is someone intelligently looking at game mechanics and pathing very well - I think whoever cam up with it is genious!

I still don't understand however - if a group does ever go into chardok to exp doesn't the proxy group have to stop as it then turns into zone disruption? The same as if a bard is swarm kiting and a group moves into the area the bard has to move on

And to talk about training across a person or group and the GM's stance - I was petitioned once for swarming the Pit in FoB - I had to train a couple of mobs across a group and they petitioned me and the GM told me I had to avoid training groups in my pull and as there was a group there I had to move away as I was disrupting them
Here we go again.

[Sweetbaby Jesus]

It wouldn't let me quote it for some reason but the following is in the pay nice policy posted by Derubael.

"That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and youcannot*steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and*maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s)*in order to hold it. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up."

That seems pretty self explanatory. Chardok ae groups have to give up pulling for a certain camp if a group moves into it.

[tristantio]

The question then is, is training a zone full of mobs over another player's camp allowed?