Paladin that bad?

[Aroith]

Paladins are the only class I have yet to play on everquest. I am thinking about making one as an alt. Are they really that bad? When I do a class /count they are always fewest played character on the server. If i throw a fungi and full twink items would they be able to solo to 60 or close ? Are they a complete waste of time or could they be fun?

[Archistopheles]

I always thought it was more that everyone loves shadow knights more.

[Lune]

They are decent exp group tanks. Your agro and stuns are an asset.

If you twink the shit out of a paladin, you'll notice a few things:

1-40ish you're going to rip through mobs pretty well, but as you progress through the 40's and mob hp pools start to inflate, you'll also notice your melee skills begin to fall behind pure melee classes. Your dps becomes completely pathetic relative both to other classes your level, and the huge hp pools of mobs.

With good gear, you can keep soloing way into the 50's, but it's quite slow. In 50+ groups, you're a tank who brings very good snap agro, some utility, and very little dps. Compare to a warrior who brings adequate agro, very little utility, and moderate dps. Or a monk, who can do all three quite well if played properly.

Really, one of my biggest gripes about being a 50+ knight was how OP monks are. When a monk can mitigate roughly as well as you, do 3x your dps, agro adequately, and bring pulling utility, it can make you feel as though you don't really have a niche, or that you're not contributing as much as you'd like.

Consequently, most knights quit their characters before level 45 or so (this was reflected in the class statistics last time i looked, and it might also have something to do with the xp penalty). At the end of the day, you really need to enjoy the class to stick with it.

[Waedawen]

Root, Lull, and Stun are all abilities that can be used with extremely wide range of effectiveness

Utilizing the tools in your kit is essential to becoming a good paladin. A root and a few steps back is just as good as mez. A key stun will stop a 1,000 point nuke. All the while you're completely comfortable getting smashed in the face.

No other class can do that except Paladin. They're front-line CC.

[marcjpb]

Never played Pally in EQ1 but I will always remember our danish paladin back in Luclin raiding. He would stun snap aggro, pull away mob from the raid and root in place.

I see paladin as a tank that sacrifice dps for utility. If tanky / support is your play style, paladin might be the great for you.

[lecompte]

Ya, people fiend for the SKs but I generally prefer a paladin in a group. It is harder to find a good paladin than a good SK though. SK has to cast one spell, paladin has to use three. :).

[Danth]

Shadow Knights aren't actually all that much more popular than Paladins. Paladins are dead last for popularity on P1999, but Shadow Knights usually fall about fourth from the bottom as well. As noted above, both classes have but a few advantages over Monks.

Paladins suffer mainly due to their warped power curve. They're at their best from about level 30 or so up into the low/mid 50's. Once you get to the high levels, quite a few of their abilities either deteriorate in power or don't work at all. The inadequate scaling of their damage output was already noted. In addition, lulls become essentially useless against highly resistant monsters (almost everything at high levels), stuns become less reliable against these same creatures, and stuns simply don't work against giants or 55+ creatures (lots of these in Velious). High-level groups tend to be more likely to have a Cleric, so the utility their buffs provide also diminishes.

Most folks will enjoy the Paladin best if they use it as an alt with no particular intention of taking it to 60. It takes a specific sort of person to enjoy the class at the level cap given its limitations during this game era.

Danth

[Duncon]

Which 3 spells?

[Danth]

A Paladin in the tank role will pretty regularly use Flash of Light, Stun (level 30), and Holy Might (level 49). Deepwater Bracer stun can be used if mana's an issue. Force doesn't get used much because it's an annoying knockback stun. Other spells tend to be more situational and not really used for hate-building.

A mediocre Shadow Knight will rely almost exclusively on Disease Cloud. These SK's tend toward incompetence and don't ordinarily make 60. The Shadow Knight actually has a larger assortment of useful aggro tools than the Paladin has.

The Paladin's major advantage as a tank is its unparalleled ability to shut down spellcasters, up until you run into monsters that are either highly resistant or outright immune. Paladins and Shadow Knights can both effectively build hate on mezzed monsters, which Warriors have trouble with and Monks can't do at all, so the hybrids tend to improve Enchanter life expectancy.

Danth

[Kevris]

When compared to a paladin, other melees are very one dimensional. The paladin gives you options in nearly every situation. Need crowd control? Root. Need pulls? Lull. Need heals? They can heal. Clerics sleeping at the wheel, warrior isn't going to survive another round which means the whole raid wipes? Let me fix that for you (once every 72 minutes).

That said, they don't mitigate damage like warriors, and don't look quite as stylish as dark elf sk's do in their ro sets, or later the velious hats. But would you rather look pretty, or be a man.

Be a man, play a paladin.

[Aroith]

A lot of good posts thanks. Basically taking it that Paladins biggest weakness is their mid to end game dps. Is aggro from lull based on charisma?

[Rhambuk]

They are worse than you could possibly imagine.

Down with paladins!

[Erati]

Paladins are great to enjoy a slow leveling journey across Norrath.

once your 55+ you are pretty much a solid rock in terms of survivability, but your guild will laugh at you when u tank raid mobs and pets will easily out dps ;(

oh well at 56 u heal as good as a lvl 60 druid. That counts for something right?

[lecompte]

A lot of good posts thanks. Basically taking it that Paladins biggest weakness is their mid to end game dps. Is aggro from lull based on charisma?

Yes but Lull effectiveness is mostly based on level difference. I have no trouble pacifying my way through seb on a dwarf cleric.

[Daldaen]

Paladins are fantastic group and raid tanks.

Knights are total bosses for tanking and holding aggro on trash on raids. Need more paladins.

[Waedawen]

A distinct advantage that the Paladin shares with the Monk over the SK and Warrior is their power level in small-group situations.

Because of their large toolbox, a Paladin is a much better addition to an elite squad of 2-3 than an SK or a Warrior. True, the SK can FD pulls, but that would be literally all he is good for.

A Paladin can emergency heal, emergency CC, resurrect you if you fuck up (which DOES happen, by the way, and is extremely invaluable especially at 60.) In many ways, a Paladin may even be superior to a Monk in a small-group situation, especially considering compositions that take into account a Rogue or a Priest and Charm mechanics.

People like to drag their face across a keyboard and say "herp derp monk 4 melee shaman 4 preeztz"... but Paladins are the true tank class that really allow the other classes to flourish, as well as themselves. A lot of these same people don't know what other classes truly have to offer and can't be bothered to discover what that is because 1) everyone told them "this class" was best. 2) They only use 1/5 of the spells in their spellbook, for any wide variety of reasons from blissful ignorance to misinformation, and 3) the "more powerful" classes don't even have to go through this process in the first place.

And I say "more powerful" because no class is weak. There are 60 Rangers who make some 60 Monks look like fucking clown parades because the Ranger utilizes his kit and itemizes his character while the Monk has... no spells, and feign death. "Class v Class" and "Role v Role" "Which is better" arguments are ultimately bullshit. Every class is the best at something, and what REALLY matters is competence. If you have people utilizing the tools at their disposal, you can do reets with a Druid, a Ranger, a Necro and a Wizard.

Monks and Shamans are so popular because it takes an extremely high level of Everquest skill, coupled with scrupulous decision making, in order to single pull a mob with a monk, slow it with a shaman, and then kill it.

[wdavid78]

After reading this thread... hell, I almost want to go and roll a paladin.

[Bazia]

Players make great characters not classes, although there is limitations to what certain classes are capable of.

A great player can make himself an asset though regardless of class, I also expect Paladins to become alot more popular once they nerf all classes being able to use Soulfire clicks like they have already done on Red.

[Trosh]

SK Best K

[JPMorgan]

A distinct advantage that the Paladin shares with the Monk over the SK and Warrior is their power level in small-group situations.

Because of their large toolbox, a Paladin is a much better addition to an elite squad of 2-3 than an SK or a Warrior. True, the SK can FD pulls, but that would be literally all he is good for.

A Paladin can emergency heal, emergency CC, resurrect you if you fuck up (which DOES happen, by the way, and is extremely invaluable especially at 60.) In many ways, a Paladin may even be superior to a Monk in a small-group situation, especially considering compositions that take into account a Rogue or a Priest and Charm mechanics.

People like to drag their face across a keyboard and say "herp derp monk 4 melee shaman 4 preeztz"... but Paladins are the true tank class that really allow the other classes to flourish, as well as themselves. A lot of these same people don't know what other classes truly have to offer and can't be bothered to discover what that is because 1) everyone told them "this class" was best. 2) They only use 1/5 of the spells in their spellbook, for any wide variety of reasons from blissful ignorance to misinformation, and 3) the "more powerful" classes don't even have to go through this process in the first place.

And I say "more powerful" because no class is weak. There are 60 Rangers who make some 60 Monks look like fucking clown parades because the Ranger utilizes his kit and itemizes his character while the Monk has... no spells, and feign death. "Class v Class" and "Role v Role" "Which is better" arguments are ultimately bullshit. Every class is the best at something, and what REALLY matters is competence. If you have people utilizing the tools at their disposal, you can do reets with a Druid, a Ranger, a Necro and a Wizard.

Monks and Shamans are so popular because it takes an extremely high level of Everquest skill, coupled with scrupulous decision making, in order to single pull a mob with a monk, slow it with a shaman, and then kill it.

Finally, truth for paladins.

[JPMorgan]

A lot of good posts thanks. Basically taking it that Paladins biggest weakness is their mid to end game dps. Is aggro from lull based on charisma?

Lull is just for single pulls. Your agro comes from flash of light, which is basically the best snap agro in the game.

[LulzSect]

Disease Cloud better snap aggro imo.

[Swish]

Disease Cloud better snap aggro imo.

...and no goofy mob fearing from FoL while not in melee range.

[Kevris]

...and no goofy mob fearing from FoL while not in melee range.

Pssh, where is the fun then?!

[Danth]

Disease Cloud comes with its own drawbacks in the form of longer recast time than Flash of Light and it being a DOT, hence making monsters hard to keep mezzed.

Learn your spells, regardless of what class you play--right tool for the right job.

Danth

[Bwils]

Lull is just for single pulls. Your agro comes from flash of light, which is basically the best snap agro in the game.

You misunderstood. Lull is used to single pull and when resisted sometimes all mobs agro. So he was asking if on p99 when lull is resisted does more charisma prevent them from attacking. Which it does but someone pointed out it is more contingent on levels.

[Arteker]

i soloed my paladin from lvl 1 (non twinked) to lvl 60 .

paladin solo factor isnt as fast or clean as other class but works in all situations , outdoor and indoor.
usualy most soloers avoid casters because they are harder than regular mobs. paladins once hit lvl 30 love to hunt and kill casters.

Raid viable class?. with mine i have tanked wih ease every encounter in kunark classic and vp. with one exception. plane of sky .

paladin are a support class , u can do some dmg but nothing special howver ur chances of survival and keep others alive is superior to druids and a great back up for cleric healing .

why? because u have superior hps to a druid while ur manapool is equal to one of caster with the rigth gear .
and loh loh have his utilitys, it doesnt brigth so much when everyone is running soulfires but unlike them u dont have to do the dam quest over and over.

empty ur mana either mt or grp then mele if u go low hps loh urself.


Velious paladin improve it with our celestial cleansin spell and the improved tweaks the class get enhance the paladin class well.

[Potus]

Roll Erudite paladin. They're so darn rare.

[TWDL_Prexus]

Just wanted to add, that my main was a Monk during Velious and I loved having a Paladin in my group during a raid. The backup/spot heals were nice to have.