8 Beers...

[Shea]

That you should stop drinking immediately

http://www.organics.org/8-beers-that-you-should-stop-drinking-immediately/#1

[Pullyn]

No.

[quido]

insufferable dumb hippie propaganda

[quido]

that said, half of those beers aren't even technically beer - they're like beer-drink

[Azure]

Make your own food. It's the only way to be sure. Seriously. People put to much faith in huge institutionalized agriculture and food processing. There is little humanity in it what so ever.

[Azure]

Then again most of us have little choice. Damned if you do, damned if you don't so they say. But I drink water, coffee, and a few other things.

[Frieza_Prexus]

GMO foods are not the Devil. (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/2225-no-health-concerns-for-gmo.html)

[SamwiseRed]

damn and i thought beer was healthy!

[Azure]

Naw but they aren't good either. Frankenfish in the wild. Many miaze/local crops infected by GMO corn.

Roundup ready corn in the news a lot.

It's not good or bad. But it's not great either.

The GMO companies want you to believe that it's absolutely neccissary to have this ultra-uber set of perfected monoculture crops.

Which is complete bullshit. And their willing to look the otherway and ignore the affects they have on the ecosystem. They do not care. They are willing to play god with your money and your food.

They have covered up and been reactionary assholes. There's a billion articles back and forth on this.

I can't abide anyone who actually stands up for a monsanto executive who won't even eat their own products.

[Azure]

The excuse given - we can feed 7 billion people more cheaply with GMO.

No the GMO allows companies to rape/pillage even harder than they've ever been before and neglect the bigger picture of what is happening to the earth/3rd world countries.

[Azure]

P.S. Most of the GMO crops are food that is bad for you already. The GMO doesn't make it much better. Outside of a few small things... like some GMO potatoes I heard about that seemed pretty interesting and had more antioxidents/etc...

Corn in large quantities as a filler in your diet no matter how it gets to u is fucking bad people...

[Azure]

GMO and aquaculture this plz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorella

if I could eat more of this and less of GMO filler corn. I'de be much happier.

[Azure]

But corn is what fucking sells to SYSCO.

The supply chain/demand system is fucked and consumers have no control over it's diversity.

[Azure]

Thx i hope you have me all on ignore.

[ymw]

Fuck. Is this thread really happening again?

[chief]

SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY

[Roublard]

.

[Argh]

GMO foods are not the Devil. (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/2225-no-health-concerns-for-gmo.html)

[myriverse]

I'd be surprised if any mass-produced beer is GMO free. It's especially hard to avoid GMO corn products. They are that pervasive.

GMOs are our friends, anyway. So why bother.

And WTF's wrong with a little fish bladder? Stop being vegan y'all. Kidding! Be what you want, but eesh... MEAT is good!

[Byrjun]

insufferable dumb hippie propaganda

^

Humans have been genetically modifying plants and animals for 12,000 years.

[Swish]

EC fat cats trying to turn an extra profit... same ole, same ole...

[Azure]

no we've been breeding them

and our move even that - forcing monoculture non-gmo crops all over the world has been bad... go to europe were bread is still made with barley

big america GMO corp is so fucking evil and for all the reasons you ignorant fucks cant even begin to imagine, this shit is the devil it's fucking greeeeeeeeeeeeed those pop songs you all listen to were rich motherfuckers worshiped like gods don't ever eat this shit and enslave you all

your ecosystem is fucked by this shit your food is bad you all eat crap

GMO is just the next peg in the coffin of healthy food and ecologically friendly farming/subsistance

It's all about $$ not good food or survival its about $$

FUCKING FUCK ya'll are so dumb i'm not even going to cite research

[Byrjun]

FUCKING FUCK ya'll are so dumb i'm not even going to cite research

Sounds like a normal anti-GMO argument.

Also:

Guinness is often praised for it’s smoothness. However, several investigations proved that Guinness ingredients are quite disturbing. The beer contains fish bladder and high fructose corn syrup. High fructose corn syrup has been long banned from many stores and drinks.

What's wrong with fish bladder?

[Azure]

I shouldn't need to. But people will bury there heads in the sand until the human race is fucked on this one. The problem is all you have to do is type "bad GMO" in google bamn you have 3000+ pages of fucking citating.

BUT YOU FUCKERS INSIST because 1 monsanto exec says it's all good and they "never fucked up" and let shit into the wild and "it's not causing harm"

it's all good.

noooo the body of evidence is against them in almost all regards, financially, politically, lawyers, money, actual incidents etc...

FUCK YOU ASSHOLES

[Azure]

Fact: Monsanto pays for and buys silence and +positive results even in cases where their clearly wrong.

FUCKING FUCK FUCK FUCK, piss me off with this topic fucking stupid idiots.

[Azure]

Then shell companies... and the fuckers who are actually "stealing" and growing and container shipping this shit all over the globe instead of using local farmers etc...

[quido]

I don't think anyone is going to dispute that Monsanto is a fucking bastard of a corporation.

But prove that GMO food is harmful, even just a little bit. It shouldn't be too difficult.

[Heebo]

I need my vote back in the rustled jimmies thread. Azure going off the deep end.

[Glenzig]

I don't think anyone is going to dispute that Monsanto is a fucking bastard of a corporation.

But prove that GMO food is harmful, even just a little bit. It shouldn't be too difficult.

You can't though. All independent research is pushed down by corporate lawyers and paid off "research studies". If there is any compelling evidence that is actually indisputable, the companies responsible just say "no, we don't have enough research to prove anything for sure yet". Sorry guys. Listen to Azure on this one. Just ask yourself one question when you think about anything having to do with big business or corporate anything. Why would a company like Monsanto care if they were slowly killing people with GMO food crops? What is a human life when there are billions to be made?

[quido]

cite source

[Archalen]

I don't think anyone is going to dispute that Monsanto is a fucking bastard of a corporation.

But prove that GMO food is harmful, even just a little bit. It shouldn't be too difficult.

There is recent research showing that celiac's disease may be linked to GMO corn, soy, wheat. BT-toxin kills insects but also punctures the cell walls in human beings. Research is still in its infant stage which is precisely why I want GMO labeling. That way I can continue to avoid GMOs as much as possible while pro-gmo population serves as my lab rats.

[Kekephee]

Newcastle Ale has been found to have caramel coloring


ahahahahahahhaa fuck OFF

[quido]

Yeah I'm all for full disclosure and letting people make up their own minds.

Most dumb hippies are just pretending to know something they actually don't, though.

[Azure]

The problem is you guys are batting for assholes who are against freedom of choice, full disclosure, and who have covered there tracks multiple times.

A few studies say GMO corn is safe for "human consumption" in X scientifically proven quantities.

All the rest of the evidence is thrown out the window.

Fact: GMO companies have a poor track record with their products and their legal departments and their political bullying.

There is not one GMO company on this planet I trust. And not one farmer I trust not to do something stupid with a GMO product especially in a 3rd world country.

[Azure]

Another fact:

It's going to happen, so why not make it happen on our terms... problem is YOU DO NOT OWN MONSANTO and they don't give a fuck about YOU. This GMO revolution is NOT FOR YOU.

[moklianne]

GMO's are a Reptilian plot to cut down on the human infestation!

[Trox20]

http://maureenogle.com/maureen-ogle/2013/08/18/whats-in-your-beer-or-the-dangers-of-dumbassery

[quido]

I don't think anyone is going to bat for Monsanto. More I'm just playing devil's advocate to a bunch of dumb fucking hipster hippies who believe every god damn thing they read on facebook without question.

Corn syrup is bad HNNNNNGGGGHHHH no shit, fuckwad

[Azure]

Here's my thing. There's healthier crops we should be eating more of. And the stuff that is designed specifically to sell, be highcarb/sugar.

GMO or OTHERWISE (i.e. even normal nontransgenic crops)

Are fucking bad.

[Kekephee]

I'm not going to bat for Monsanto. I'm one of the most stupidly anti-corporate people you'll ever meet. But holy fuck these people need to get out of my face if they want me to believe CARAMEL FUCKING COLORING is some sort of tremendously powerful biological weapon.

[Glenzig]

cite source

What source? For what?

[Azure]

I'm not going to bat for Monsanto. I'm one of the most stupidly anti-corporate people you'll ever meet. But holy fuck these people need to get out of my face if they want me to believe CARAMEL FUCKING COLORING is some sort of tremendously powerful biological weapon.

It is no good for you to eat 90% caramel coloring because companies are to lazy to buy good flower/corn/barley/etc...

[quido]

All independent research is pushed down by corporate lawyers and paid off "research studies".

cite source

[Glenzig]

Nm. Thought you were talkin to me. Sorry.

[quido]

I was

[Glenzig]

cite source

Oh. You were talking to me. This isn't a court of law. The info is out there. If you look you will find it.

[quido]

I'm just curious to see what you think is good information. Let's see it.

[Glenzig]

Where is your info that GMO food is A okay?

[Faerie]

http://www.ijbs.com/v05p0706.htm

Patho-physiological profiles are unique for each GM crop/food, underlining the necessity for a case-by-case evaluation of their safety, as is largely admitted and agreed by regulators. It is not possible to make comments concerning any general, similar subchronic toxic effect for all GM foods. However, in the three GM maize varieties that formed the basis of this investigation, new side effects linked to the consumption of these cereals were revealed, which were sex- and often dose-dependent. Effects were mostly concentrated in kidney and liver function, the two major diet detoxification organs, but in detail differed with each GM type. In addition, some effects on heart, adrenal, spleen and blood cells were also frequently noted. As there normally exists sex differences in liver and kidney metabolism, the highly statistically significant disturbances in the function of these organs, seen between male and female rats, cannot be dismissed as biologically insignificant as has been proposed by others [4]. We therefore conclude that our data strongly suggests that these GM maize varieties induce a state of hepatorenal toxicity. This can be due to the new pesticides (herbicide or insecticide) present specifically in each type of GM maize, although unintended metabolic effects due to the mutagenic properties of the GM transformation process cannot be excluded [42]. All three GM maize varieties contain a distinctly different pesticide residue associated with their particular GM event (glyphosate and AMPA in NK 603, modified Cry1Ab in MON 810, modified Cry3Bb1 in MON 863). These substances have never before been an integral part of the human or animal diet and therefore their health consequences for those who consume them, especially over long time periods are currently unknown. Furthermore, any side effect linked to the GM event will be unique in each case as the site of transgene insertion and the spectrum of genome wide mutations will differ between the three modified maize types. In conclusion, our data presented here strongly recommend that additional long-term (up to 2 years) animal feeding studies be performed in at least three species, preferably also multi-generational, to provide true scientifically valid data on the acute and chronic toxic effects of GM crops, feed and foods. Our analysis highlights that the kidneys and liver as particularly important on which to focus such research as there was a clear negative impact on the function of these organs in rats consuming GM maize varieties for just 90 days.

[Kekephee]

Where is your info that GMO food is A okay?

GMO: GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISM


Anything that has had gene therapy or was selectively bred is a GMO in the strictest sense of the word. Do you like tomatoes? You're eating a GMO.


Are some GMOs bad? For sure. Are all GMOs bad? Absolutely not. Instead of perpetuating a tremendously uninformed, anti-science, anti-anything I don't understand because I don't have a degree in biochemistry "information" machine and railing against the dangerous of ALL GMOs, we should be pushing for more research- not less- to identify and fix the ones that are bad, while still making use of the ones that definitely aren't and definitely have helped put a major dent in world hunger by allowing crops to not fucking die.

Remember the Irish potato famine? GMOs would have been nice, wouldn't they?

[Kekephee]

I have all these hippie dippie facebook friends who post all this anti GMO shit that's like, BAN them ALL, IMMEDIATELY cut research, make it GO AWAY we will all live with our TRENDY PALEO DIET and I'm like, God I wish your heart wasn't in the right place right now so I could just defriend you

[myriverse]

Where is your info that GMO food is A okay?
It's already been given. Scroll up. Where's yours? The only studies stating they're not okay have been shown frauds.

[Faerie]

I'm on my phone for today or I'd do better. Btw there is tons of legitimate evidence suggesting that caramel color chemical is seriously cancerous. Trusting something because it seems safe is silly.

[Glenzig]

Here is a perfect example of what I was talking about. A report won't tell you GMO foods are perfectly fine. But also won't tell you why they aren't. This is why people think its ok. Or ok enough I guess.
http://m.ibtimes.com/gmo-health-risks-what-scientific-evidence-says-1161099

[Ahldagor]

no one bringing up the usage of insecticides, poor soil maintenance, and subsidies as bigger reasons for the overall usage of gmo crops. y'all need to read more. problem started during the dust bowl. now we have crops that will grow in shitty soil with shitty fertilizers that came about from excess gun powder after ww2.

[Kekephee]

I'm on my phone for today or I'd do better. Btw there is tons of legitimate evidence suggesting that caramel color chemical is seriously cancerous. Trusting something because it seems safe is silly.

Distrusting something because it involves chemistry is ridiculous.


Caramel color or caramel coloring is a water soluble food coloring. It is made by heat treatment of carbohydrates, in general in the presence of acids, alkalis, or salts, in a process called caramelization.


Caramel color can be obtained through NUMEROUS ingredients and a variety of methods. Caramel color from a natural sugar is beyond harmless. Blanket statements implying something as potentially simple and natural as caramel color, rather than a specific variant/method (eg: caramel color obtained through caramelization of chemical sweeteners) is an oversimplification and is utterly meaningless.

[Glenzig]

Remember the Irish potato famine? GMOs would have been nice, wouldn't they?

That's flawed reasoning. GMOs are plentiful today and millions in America starve every day. They are never going to give food away. GMOs don't curb starvation. Only way to get rid of starvation is to get rid of greed.

[Faerie]

Omg Keke you're being a fef I wish I were at a keyboard right now. Keep googling about the caramel color.

[Ahldagor]

the potato famine was also coordinated with british and irish wealthy in order to cull the poor. was much better for them to export what food was being grown, financially speaking, than to sell it in the country. it was an aspect of centuries of genocide

[Kekephee]

Nobody in America is starving because THE LOCUST PLAGUE ATE THE CROPS, PAW. They're starving because corporate capitalism is psychotic and someone has to lose for someone else to win. This is a whole different thread- that I'm sure as shit not going to make on this message board- but if our economic hoodly hoodly hoo wasn't so fucked up we not only wouldn't have starvation in America, we could provide food for a ridiculous portion of the rest of the world, easily. That is, IF scientists were allowed to do their jobs and use research to find ways to create crops that were easy to grow and had large yields... without a bunch of people from Portland protesting and calling for boycotts because some assclown put it in their heads that anything that has ever been touched by human hands is bad

[Glenzig]

Nobody in America is starving because THE LOCUST PLAGUE ATE THE CROPS, PAW. They're starving because corporate capitalism is psychotic and someone has to lose for someone else to win. This is a whole different thread- that I'm sure as shit not going to make on this message board- but if our economic hoodly hoodly hoo wasn't so fucked up we not only wouldn't have starvation in America, we could provide food for a ridiculous portion of the rest of the world, easily. That is, IF scientists were allowed to do their jobs and use research to find ways to create crops that were easy to grow and had large yields... without a bunch of people from Portland protesting and calling for boycotts because some assclown put it in their heads that anything that has ever been touched by human hands is bad

You are very uninformed on this particular subject I can tell.

[Ahldagor]

read if you haven't

http://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1350939053l/15811496.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KjyQ15iNL.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51F6xIbjrcL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Kekephee]

You are very uninformed on this particular subject I can tell.

NO UR

CHECKMATE

[Funkutron5000]

BT-toxin kills insects but also punctures the cell walls in human beings.

Human cells don't have cells walls.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Only way to get rid of starvation is to get rid of greed.

Da, Comrade!

Wait a minute...
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A)

[Archalen]

Human cells don't have cells walls.

Correct. It punctures human cells.

[Glenzig]

No science needed. Lack of supply is not the cause of starvation, greed is. This kind of stuff happens all the time. In all countries.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/million-jars-peanut-butter-dumped-mexico-23094422

[quido]

Unfortunately idiot consumers are the pitfall of capitalism. People continue to pay more money for shittier products because they're indifferent or don't know better.

[Glenzig]

Unfortunately idiot consumers are the pitfall of capitalism. People continue to pay more money for shittier products because they're indifferent or don't know better.

Yeah you're right that is definitely part of it.

[Faerie]

Fish bladders are usually safe for consumption I'm sure, but it's good to know about them at least. Wtb ingredients labels on alcohol pst! Sometimes it's a huge bitch finding vegan beer :(

[Raavak]

Now all I need to hear is Monsanto designed the barley whose fermented juice I thrive upon.

[Frieza_Prexus]

No science needed. Lack of supply is not the cause of starvation, greed is. This kind of stuff happens all the time. In all countries.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/million-jars-peanut-butter-dumped-mexico-23094422

Excess agricultural goods are often, but not always, shipped to regions that are starving and could not otherwise purchase the food. Excess supply is sometimes destroyed because it cannot be meaningfully released without causing a price depression for that good. For example, a bumper crop of almonds might be destroyed because releasing them would depress the price and drive the supplier out of business. On occasion you have a situation that looks stupid, and sometimes it is, but there's generally something deeper happening to cause the event in question.

These are complicated economic matters. Chalking world hunger up to "greed" shows an undeveloped understanding of economic consequence.

[Ahldagor]

Unfortunately idiot consumers are the pitfall of capitalism. People continue to pay more money for shittier products because they're indifferent or don't know better.

this right here. we're going to need a level of autism in order to be good consumers again though.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

[Glenzig]

""These are complicated economic matters. Chalking world hunger up to "greed" shows an undeveloped understanding of economic consequence.""

That sentence right there is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Its ok to dump edible foodstuffs because it is more economically viable?? There may be a price depression if the commodity is released freely?? We're talking about starving human beings here. Who cares about a few more bucks? There are people that could desperately use that food.

[Raavak]

You don't get it.

If shipping food somewhere causes negative pressure on a business sector, it won't happen. Its not really a person who makes that choice, its the laws of economics.

[Frieza_Prexus]

""These are complicated economic matters. Chalking world hunger up to "greed" shows an undeveloped understanding of economic consequence.""

That sentence right there is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Its ok to dump edible foodstuffs because it is more economically viable?? There may be a price depression if the commodity is released freely?? We're talking about starving human beings here. Who cares about a few more bucks? There are people that could desperately use that food.

And then the crops are no longer grown due to a market crash. The farmers are no longer growing and that good is no longer available. Now those who were buying it or receiving it for free/at a discount already cannot have it. The destruction of goods is sometimes the cost of the hyper-efficient distribution provided by capitalism. Do you prefer the Soviet model? The example is oversimplified, but the principle is the same.

I admire your desire to help people. Your heart is in the right place, but the aggregate situation must be considered. Short term help at the expense of the future is generally not a sound decision.

Do you have a savings account? Why do you keep that money when you could feed a starving person in Africa? Is it the evil "greed" that motivates you to save?

[Ahldagor]

""These are complicated economic matters. Chalking world hunger up to "greed" shows an undeveloped understanding of economic consequence.""

That sentence right there is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Its ok to dump edible foodstuffs because it is more economically viable?? There may be a price depression if the commodity is released freely?? We're talking about starving human beings here. Who cares about a few more bucks? There are people that could desperately use that food.

haven't you heard? there's no morality anymore, we're a free species

[Frieza_Prexus]

haven't you heard? there's no morality anymore, we're a free species

Another example: The availability of donated clothes to some areas has decimated local textile industries. If someone was giving perfectly good cars away do you think most people would buy one or just take a free one?

Economic actions have economic consequences. The motivations or intent does not matter, only the ultimate consequence. I think I linked the video in this thread (or maybe the GMO thread) Milton Friedman asked if car companies should make cars even safer if it would make each car cost $1,000,000. The answer is clearly no. We accept certain risks because the cars provide so much utility. He asked the question again with the car costing $0.05 more per unit but it would save 1,000 lives. In the case the answer is yes, the car should be more expensive.

Few people disagree with that logic. This means that we all inherently accept the idea that certain results, however individually distasteful (the poor guy who died because we didn't have $1,000,000 cars), are still necessary because of the aggregate consequence (we all have cars now).

[Hailto]

That you should stop drinking immediately

http://www.organics.org/8-beers-that-you-should-stop-drinking-immediately/#1

Stopped at number 3. Propylene glycol is completely save, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Stop being an uninformed hippie.

[Glenzig]

So giving food products to people who can't afford to buy said food product will cause an economic collapse? Because these people were obviously going to buy up all the food anyway, that's why they are starving. Use your common sense. Throwing food in the landfill is doing no one any good. Economic excuses for obvious greed? Get a grip.

[Hailto]

safe* fuk

[Frieza_Prexus]

So giving food products to people who can't afford to buy said food product will cause an economic collapse? Because these people were obviously going to buy up all the food anyway, that's why they are starving. Use your common sense. Throwing food in the landfill is doing no one any good. Economic excuses for obvious greed? Get a grip.

No. As I mentioned, often times excess goods can, and should, be given to indigent groups that are not active marketplace participants. The Costco example seems silly, and it's unfortunate that the needy will not be given that food.

However, I am not justifying Costco's specific action. I am instead taking exception with your repeated crucifixion of "greed' when you're connecting the entire picture with the consequences of your outrage.

[Glenzig]

No. As I mentioned, often times excess goods can, and should, be given to indigent groups that are not active marketplace participants. The Costco example seems silly, and it's unfortunate that the needy will not be given that food.

However, I am not justifying Costco's specific action. I am instead taking exception with your repeated crucifixion of "greed' when you're connecting the entire picture with the consequences of your outrage.

If you can do something for someone that really needs it. Like give food products to starving families, but you don't because somewhere down the line it might affect your stock portfolio, is greed. What else would you call it?

[Trox20]

beer should only have 4 ingredients anyway

Will have to disagree since there are some great adjuncts that can bring some great flavors to beers. Even if you took away the adjuncts you will still want to use more than 4 ingredients; unless you are going to group like items together (all hops used would still be considered 1 ingredient, and all the different grains would be a second ingredient, using 2 or more strains of yeast would be 3rd ingredient, and of course water (which alone could add a ton of different ingredients if you are hoping to clone a particular style).

[Raavak]

If you can do something for someone that really needs it. Like give food products to starving families, but you don't because somewhere down the line it might affect your stock portfolio, is greed. What else would you call it?

You are talking like you can target someone for making this choice, either through naivety or misinformation. The truth is we all make this decision every time we shop, or do not shop but can (or sell or not sell something we produce).

[Raavak]

Look, how does the "right" number of oranges get to a mom & pop grocer on Manhattan Island so that they have enough to satisfy everyone who wants to buy one yet not have too many so that they don't make a profit? An orange that came from a huge plantation in Florida, semitrailored to a warehouse in New Jersey, and shipped via a produce truck through the busy streets. Are mom & pop New Yorker dastardly geniuses of supply chain management? If so they are the ones starving children in the Sudan and you have your guilty party.

[Glenzig]

You are talking like you can target someone for making this choice, either through naivety or misinformation. The truth is we all make this decision every time we shop, or do not shop but can (or sell or not sell something we produce).

Yeah you're right. I remember Costco giving me a ring and asking my opinion on the million jar peanut butter dump. Shopping for rood is not greedy. I don't buy more food than I can eat and then dump it in the garbage. This is a line spewed by economists and used to make us feel accountable for corporate greed. I am not responsible for the fact that millions of people starve every day. My buying food for my family to eat does not absolve corporations for making purely monetary decisions like dumping food instead of feeding people.

[Glenzig]

Look, how does the "right" number of oranges get to a mom & pop grocer on Manhattan Island so that they have enough to satisfy everyone who wants to buy one yet not have too many so that they don't make a profit? An orange that came from a huge plantation in Florida, semitrailored to a warehouse in New Jersey, and shipped via a produce truck through the busy streets. Are mom & pop New Yorker dastardly geniuses of supply chain management? If so they are the ones starving children in the Sudan and you have your guilty party.

Who said anything about a mom&pop store being greedy?

[quido]

you're comparing peanut butter to oranges

not exactly similar shelf lives anyways

[Frieza_Prexus]

If you can do something for someone that really needs it. Like give food products to starving families, but you don't because somewhere down the line it might affect your stock portfolio, is greed. What else would you call it?

Rational self-interest that enables and perpetuates a modern standard of living for the largest number of people possible under the capitalist model.

If Costco decided to just up and waste the food that'd be one thing, and yes, it'd be stupid. However, after looking it up, it appears that Costco's refusal to distribute / sell comes from a salmonella concern.

My buying food for my family to eat does not absolve corporations for making purely monetary decisions like dumping food instead of feeding people.

When you walk past a starving homeless person do you give them the money in your wallet? When that runs out, do you give them all the money in your checking account? It seems that you're making a purely monetary decision. You make these decisions every day. The moment you withhold something for your self that is not essential to your staying alive, you make a decision similar to what has been done. Yes, if you buy food simply to waste it that is bad. But if you've got an economic justification for your actions, it begins to make sense in the aggregate.

I noticed you've missed some of my earlier posts. As I wrote above, donated clothing often decimates local textile industries. In that case, yes, it can often be better to dump the material. While one or two people might freeze if you dump, hundreds might freeze if the local textiles industry went under.

[Glenzig]

Rational self-interest that enables and perpetuates a modern standard of living for the largest number of people possible under the capitalist model.

If Costco decided to just up and waste the food that'd be one thing, and yes, it'd be stupid. However, after looking it up, it appears that Costco's refusal to distribute / sell comes from a salmonella concern.



When you walk past a starving homeless person do you give them the money in your wallet? When that runs out, do you give them all the money in your checking account? It seems that you're making a purely monetary decision. You make these decisions every day. The moment you withhold something for your self that is not essential to your staying alive, you make a decision similar to what has been done. Yes, if you buy food simply to waste it that is bad. But if you've got an economic justification for your actions, it begins to make sense in the aggregate.

I noticed you've missed some of my earlier posts. As I wrote above, donated clothing often decimates local textile industries. In that case, yes, it can often be better to dump the material. While one or two people might freeze if you dump, hundreds might freeze if the local textiles industry went under.

No. I buy the homeless person a sandwich. And I don't feel.guilty about not emptying my bank account for him. I rarely have more money than I need for food/bills. I'm not enjoying excess while other people starve. And the peanut butter in question was not contaminated. It was produced after the salmonella scare was over from the info I read in an interview with the companies president.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I'm not enjoying excess while other people starve. And the peanut butter in question was not contaminated.

I take it you will only maintain enough cash for your own minimum needs for the rest of your life? That you will give away all unneeded excess?

[quido]

How much excess is enough?

[Glenzig]

I noticed you've missed some of my earlier posts. As I wrote above, donated clothing often decimates local textile industries. In that case, yes, it can often be better to dump the material. While one or two people might freeze if you dump, hundreds might freeze if the local textiles industry went under.

Textile factories closing down because of thrift stores?? Hmmm. Nope. Textile factories close down in America because there are Cambodian children that are easy to exploit.

[Glenzig]

I take it you will only maintain enough cash for your own minimum needs for the rest of your life? That you will give away all unneeded excess?

Yeah, pretty much. If I see something I can do for someone, I do it. Define excess. Do I have some things that I could probably reasonably.live without? Yeah, I'm pretty sure we all do. Do I have 5 cars sitting in the garage of my three story summer house? No. I have enough to live a pretty simple life. I have very few things that I want versus what I need. I feel like I'm doing pretty well. I'm certainly not storing up wealth while making excuses about my stock futures while not doing what I can actually do to help people that need it though. That's the sort of mentality I'm talking about.

[quido]

Comparing a regular individual's fiscal habits to those of a multi-billion dollar corporation is without scope.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Textile factories closing down because of thrift stores?? Hmmm. Nope. Textile factories close down in America because there are Cambodian children that are easy to exploit.

Not generally is America, no. I noticed you missed my earlier post when I first mentioned this. Donated items often introduce an artificially cheap supply to areas. Africa and parts of Asia are generally hardest hit by this concept with regards to textiles.

If you could have a perfectly good car for free would you buy one? Of course not. Very few would. All of a sudden you have a car manufacturer that is out of business, and when the free supply runs out you have problems because a the supply was run out of business years ago.

Economic actions have consequences. Some are good, some are bad, and some have both. If a decision maker doesn't understand these relationships, good intentions can sometimes lead to disastrous results.

Yeah, pretty much. If I see something I can do for someone, I do it.

Why are you playing Project 1999 when you could be working to feed the homeless?

Look, it's morally commendable to live an ascetic life, but it's not morally obligatory. The capitalist system of society, for all its flaws, is still the most efficient means of distribution that has ever worked for society. It accounts for human nature. Yes, I'd love it if we were all saints and world hunger was solved. A result of this system is that some will have far more than others, and sometimes people get left in the cold. It's not perfect, in fact, it's "the worst system that ever worked." We can have theoretical efficiency of 100% all day long where everyone gives every second of their day to feed to homeless, and for those who personally aspire to that, they are incredible people. But it's simply not a realistic notion to expect an entire society to embrace that ideal. Capitalism accounts for that, and manages to provide efficient distribution in spite of that.

In short, crazy shit happens, but it doesn't mean that the whole system is broken. Greed works because rational self interest drives people to contribute far more than they otherwise would.

[lawll]

Funny how people act like guinness is quality beer but little do they know it has fucking HFCS LOL. Marketing at its best.

[Ahldagor]

lawdy yall hit the nazi level of sincerity in actions and are not even arguing the points

essentially if it's cheaper for a company to dump food in a landfill than to transport it to people that need or would use then that food is going into a landfill. that's not greed, that's basic business. you don't serve 6 dollars worth of food to someone and charge them 4 in order to get on their good side. you serve them six dollars worth of food and charge them 10 because you're providing an "experience" for them. that's not greed that's rhetoric. jeremy brought that up somewhere today and everyone seems to have glossed over it without much consideration.

[Frieza_Prexus]

lawdy yall hit the nazi level of sincerity in actions and are not even arguing the points

essentially if it's cheaper for a company to dump food in a landfill than to transport it to people that need or would use then that food is going into a landfill. that's not greed, that's basic business. you don't serve 6 dollars worth of food to someone and charge them 4 in order to get on their good side. you serve them six dollars worth of food and charge them 10 because you're providing an "experience" for them. that's not greed that's rhetoric. jeremy brought that up somewhere today and everyone seems to have glossed over it without much consideration.

I concede my immersion levels hit 110%.

[KagaKawaiitob]

lawdy yall hit the nazi level of sincerity in actions and are not even arguing the points

essentially if it's cheaper for a company to dump food in a landfill than to transport it to people that need or would use then that food is going into a landfill. that's not greed, that's basic business. you don't serve 6 dollars worth of food to someone and charge them 4 in order to get on their good side. you serve them six dollars worth of food and charge them 10 because you're providing an "experience" for them. that's not greed that's rhetoric. jeremy brought that up somewhere today and everyone seems to have glossed over it without much consideration.

Your mob mentality of everyone else does it so it's suddenly not a morally abhorrent practice is disgusting.

I'm gonna add capitalism right next to Christianity on the list of things I hope to need to explain to children in 50 years because they've long since ceased to exist.

[Ahldagor]

Your mob mentality of everyone else does it so it's suddenly not a morally abhorrent practice is disgusting.

I'm gonna add capitalism right next to Christianity on the list of things I hope to need to explain to children in 50 years because they've long since ceased to exist.

stop making an ass of me and focus on your self because where did i say i agreed with it?

[lawll]

Well this would of been a awesome thread to comment on but its completely derailed now hahaha.

[Kekephee]

Another example: The availability of donated clothes to some areas has decimated local textile industries. If someone was giving perfectly good cars away do you think most people would buy one or just take a free one?

Economic actions have economic consequences. The motivations or intent does not matter, only the ultimate consequence. I think I linked the video in this thread (or maybe the GMO thread) Milton Friedman asked if car companies should make cars even safer if it would make each car cost $1,000,000. The answer is clearly no. We accept certain risks because the cars provide so much utility. He asked the question again with the car costing $0.05 more per unit but it would save 1,000 lives. In the case the answer is yes, the car should be more expensive.

Few people disagree with that logic. This means that we all inherently accept the idea that certain results, however individually distasteful (the poor guy who died because we didn't have $1,000,000 cars), are still necessary because of the aggregate consequence (we all have cars now).

Like I said; capitalism is psychotic and someone has to lose for someone else to win.

[Asap]

I like beer

[Glenzig]

Well this would of been a awesome thread to comment on but its completely derailed now hahaha.

Sorry. I think that was my fault.

[Azure]

the best thing bout this thread... is it argues all the points i poorly brought up in the first place... by itself now...

[Tasslehofp99]

Not much we can do except live our lives the way we want and stop trying to force what we view as the ideal lifestyle onto others.

I have vegan friends who I literally had to stop hanging out with because everytime we would go out to eat or get drinks it ended up similarly to this thread.

"You know what's was done to make that bacon cheeseburger your about to eat?"

NO BUT I DONT REALLY GIVE A FLYING FUCK DUDE ENJOY YOUR LEAF SALAD OR WHATEVER YOU VEGANS ARE ALLOWED TO EAT. LET ME EAT MY FUCKING FOOD IN PEACE WEIRDO.

Its kind of sad really.



But Imo any vegan/vegetarian who tries to force their views onto others or guilt trip those who don't live the same lifestyle is the same as the religious fanatics around the world who praise jesus and allah and condemn those who choose not to.


TLDR: life sucks then we all die, stop trying to tell people how they need to live and worry.bout yourself.


Just live and let live, or hopefully you die young. World is already full of assholes trying to force people to live one way or another and we won't miss a few self righteous leaf eaters.

[LostCause]

all those beers on that list are pretty horrible beers expect for maybe guinness but im a strong beer type of person never could drink that ultra light or light beer.

[Azure]

all those beers on that list are pretty horrible beers expect for maybe guinness but im a strong beer type of person never could drink that ultra light or light beer.

Guinness not the best either...

[Azure]

Not much we can do except live our lives the way we want and stop trying to force what we view as the ideal lifestyle onto others.

I have vegan friends who I literally had to stop hanging out with because everytime we would go out to eat or get drinks it ended up similarly to this thread.

"You know what's was done to make that bacon cheeseburger your about to eat?"

NO BUT I DONT REALLY GIVE A FLYING FUCK DUDE ENJOY YOUR LEAF SALAD OR WHATEVER YOU VEGANS ARE ALLOWED TO EAT. LET ME EAT MY FUCKING FOOD IN PEACE WEIRDO.

Its kind of sad really.



But Imo any vegan/vegetarian who tries to force their views onto others or guilt trip those who don't live the same lifestyle is the same as the religious fanatics around the world who praise jesus and allah and condemn those who choose not to.


TLDR: life sucks then we all die, stop trying to tell people how they need to live and worry.bout yourself.


Just live and let live, or hopefully you die young. World is already full of assholes trying to force people to live one way or another and we won't miss a few self righteous leaf eaters.

Part of the argument about GMO is their just as much assholes as the vegans. But hey I'm cool, just don't fuck up my native salmon species that I do enjoy with transgenic freaks.

Then again who knows... maybe the transgenic salmon will take over the ocean in enough quantaties to feed us all..

BUT Guess what... even if the best possible outcome of GMO (food utopia) came about... there'd still be some asshole at the top of saying you cant eat our patend pending grapes of freedom.

We already can produce enough to feed everyone whatever they want. Yet were' still fucked as a human species. Citation: this thread.