Seriously, stop raping BB

[Kruniac]

I'm seeing it everyday. Level 13+ people wiping out every single gnoll in BB. Chanters grabbing a commander and parking him right at the bridge (the first bridge) just to wipe 4+ gnolls they get no exp for.

Level 5-11s are there for a reason. The gnolls aren't green to them, and therefore they get exp for killing them. Stop killing them all. It's a dick move. Go camp the elites.

This obsession with fangs is idiotic. Sure, they're good XP, but when you're taking XP from legitimate players who are within the proper level to play the game normally, you're not right.

It's sad when all I can do is hope for them to die. And we all have been there - we know how much that sucks. It shouldn't come to that.

[Thulack]

Little early in the week for the "High levels taking all the Gnoll Teeth" thread isnt it?

[Koota]

Little early in the week for the "High levels taking all the Gnoll Teeth" thread isnt it?

naw

[Kasyra]

and while we're at it, whats the deal with airline food?

[-Globox-]

and while we're at it, whats the deal with airline food?

The peanuts are good. Honey roasted even.

[Vlak]

I honestly thought this was about Butcherblock before I read it. Disappointing.

[Nikon]

This sounds familiar....


http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144639&highlight=Blackburrow

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144685&highlight=Blackburrow

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140704&highlight=blackburrow

[Kasyra]

This sounds familiar....


http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144639&highlight=Blackburrow

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144685&highlight=Blackburrow

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140704&highlight=blackburrow

[Nuggie]

^ cute

[Kazi]

10 pages or bust

[Thulack]

The peanuts are good. Honey roasted even.

Thought they didnt serve peanuts anymore on planes cause of allergies? I usually get offered pretzels.

[HippoNipple]

Wait, it's possible to grief noobs into tears on blue? I have a high level necro, logging in now.

[Kruniac]

Keep joking about it. It's just going to promote agitation. If it's not your problem, it's easy to laugh at.

That's fine. When I "accidentally" train people in BB and they just so happen to die, I don't want to hear any complaining. Fair is fair.

*Edit* And now that I think about it, why not make fangs only drop off of LBs and higher? Greens simply won't drop fangs. That would curb the problem a bit.

I don't care if someone is in BB and clears the path. That's natural. But when you're literally parked to catch level 8 mobs at level 14, and you can plainly see level 7, 8, and 9 players trying to level, you're wrong.

[loramin]

As was said in previous threads, if anyone will just take the time to find/submit evidence showing that gnoll fangs weren't this good for higher level characters on live, the devs could fix them and then we wouldn't have level 18s (or whatever) kicking it in a zone designed for level 7s.

But as long as people are lazy (like me) and don't do the research, this is just going to continue. You can't fault people for wanting good exp (even if it is an exploit of sorts), you can only fault the community for not working together to make P99 as classic as possible (and fixing this outlier quest).

[Leeyuuduu]

That's fine. When I "accidentally" train people in BB and they just so happen to die, I don't want to hear any complaining. Fair is fair.



Difference is what you are doing is against the rules, whereas killing greens to get items that give good xp is not (unless they are stealing from your camp)

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Training other players out of BB using the enemies you're complaining are being poached......






.......

[Kruniac]

Difference is what you are doing is against the rules, whereas killing greens to get items that give good xp is not (unless they are stealing from your camp)

Insert 20 hilarious meme pictures here about me not giving a shit. That's how we do things on the forums, right?

I'll say it again, since it's the only non-cry, non-hostile thing I can say about this subject. Make fangs stop dropping off of green cons. It won't solve the problem, but it should curb it, especially considering that greens won't add on mid-teens players. Aside from the faction (if you're a lizard or whatever), there would be zero incentive to kill green gnolls that lower level players could be getting normal XP off of.

As was said in previous threads, if anyone will just take the time to find/submit evidence showing that gnoll fangs weren't this good for higher level characters on live, the devs could fix them and then we wouldn't have level 18s (or whatever) kicking it in a zone designed for level 7s.

I'm the wrong person for that job. :P I haven't played live since Velious.

[kylok]

Insert 20 hilarious meme pictures here about me not giving a shit. That's how we do things on the forums, right?

I'll say it again, since it's the only non-cry, non-hostile thing I can say about this subject. Make fangs stop dropping off of green cons. It won't solve the problem, but it should curb it, especially considering that greens won't add on mid-teens players. Aside from the faction (if you're a lizard or whatever), there would be zero incentive to kill green gnolls that lower level players could be getting normal XP off of.



I'm the wrong person for that job. :P I haven't played live since Velious.

Are you seriously arguing for game mechanics changes outside of what has ultimately been deemed as classic? You are entirely aware that there are at least 5 other options as to where someone of your level can get exp... right? We get it, BB is awesome and it's your favorite zone but this exact thread has been made many times before and nothing ever comes of it. #dealwithit or go somewhere else - either way shit's classic.

[Kruniac]

Are you seriously arguing for game mechanics changes outside of what has ultimately been deemed as classic? You are entirely aware that there are at least 5 other options as to where someone of your level can get exp... right? We get it, BB is awesome and it's your favorite zone but this exact thread has been made many times before and nothing ever comes of it. #dealwithit or go somewhere else - either way shit's classic.

Point taken. I think you're the first person to be able to make a valid point about this. It is classic, so you're right.

Welp. Okay. I'll deal with it in my own way. The more I think about it, the more I cringe about the idea of changing something "classic", so again, you're right.

[-Globox-]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommended_Levels_and_ZEM_List

This should get you started.

[Nikon]

Insert 20 hilarious meme pictures here about me not giving a shit. That's how we do things on the forums, right?

Honestly, I can see that you are upset, but I'm not sure what you expected when you came here to rant (which there is a specific forum for) about a subject that a simple search would show has been beaten to death. Help prove that it should be a different way if you are that upset by it. That is the only way things will change. I hate to see people get so flustered about this but just complaining on the forums isn't an effective means of change.

[Pullyn]

Little early in the week for the "High levels taking all the Gnoll Teeth" thread isnt it?

[Reguiy]

and while we're at it, whats the deal with airline food?

lol'd

[Supaskillz]

Part of the problem is low lvl dungeons don't have well defined camps. If someone in seb came and pulled a bug from ng camp in seb when there is group camping it that is a rules violation. If I have a group on bridge in bb which mobs belong to us?

[kylok]

Part of the problem is low lvl dungeons don't have well defined camps. If someone in seb came and pulled a bug from ng camp in seb when there is group camping it that is a rules violation. If I have a group on bridge in bb which mobs belong to us?

As many as you can lock down

[JayN]

could u preeze make instance zone for lowbies to farm gnoll fangs preeeeez; this compition thing is 4 da berds

[Supaskillz]

As many as you can lock down

Pretty sure this is false. You can't sit in frenzy and claim lord also just bc you have a group that can kill all of those mobs. Also leaving a mob on its spawn point for 1 minute that is part of your camp doesn't mean you forfeit that part of your camp

[Kruniac]

Holy shit
and they call red players toxic.... this is just over the top
reported

It's not toxic per se. Like I've said, we've all gotten ourselves dead and lost bubs. It happens. I'm just saying when one person around 15 is camping 8+ level 8 mobs, I get a smile when they end up flattened.

And you know what? They camp somewhere else. This isn't about fangs. This is about DB/evens being massacred by much higher level people.

But like I said, it's been pointed out that mechanical changes wouldn't be "classic", and I accept that. Besides, BB is just one zone among many, and a lowbie area at that. I'll live. :P

I hate to see people get so flustered about this but just complaining on the forums isn't an effective means of change.

You're right. I was venting. I just expected classic EQ players (who are probably all old people like me) to act more mature. It doesn't matter though. It was a rant, and it's over now. I've "seen the light". XD

[Supaskillz]

I actually think you should have the right to claim a camp within bb even if a lvl 60 and his pwr lvl friend are able to kill everything in zone before repops

[kylok]

Pretty sure this is false. You can't sit in frenzy and claim lord also just bc you have a group that can kill all of those mobs. Also leaving a mob on its spawn point for 1 minute that is part of your camp doesn't mean you forfeit that part of your camp

I'm 100% sure it depends. The Lguk example is "high value" item camps which is different than newbie dungeons. I've also seen GMs say that if you're expecting a mob that is of "high value" and you know when it is going to spawn that you should be ready to engage it immediately after it spawns (not 1 min later). Ultimately "camping is a privilege not a right", I'm sure if people are reasonable there won't be problems.

[JackFlash]

This obsession with fangs is idiotic. Sure, they're good XP, but when you're taking XP from legitimate players who are within the proper level to play the game normally, you're not right.

This isn't about fangs. This is about DB/evens being massacred by much higher level people.

[BigHurb]

the quest allows you to loot a stackable item, the zone is outdoor... you can get a char to 20 in no time... never will this stop

[pharmakos]

the sickness is spreading out into the karanas as well

i saw a level 19 camping green con bandits just for the sashes

[Neesow.Shadowleaf]

Insta fix... Go to Red... Go farm Gnoll Teeth... If you get this same problem.. Turn around and kill the sob?

[kylok]

On Red I had BB all to myself, actually was able to pull the whole zone on a bard and log to an alt and loot all the fangs - zero tears.

[Messianic]

Someone really needs to make an image of a barbarian warrior doing the "THIS IS SPARTA" kick to another player as they fall into the pit at the BB-Qhills zoneline.

Insta fix... Go to Red... Go farm Gnoll Teeth... If you get this same problem.. Turn around and kill the sob?

Until he kills you instead. And camps you for the next 45 minutes. So not insta fix?

[Supaskillz]

Insta fix... Go to Red... Go farm Gnoll Teeth... If you get this same problem.. Turn around and kill the sob?

Fail to see how a lvl 8-12 toon turns around to kill someone farming fangs out of level range.

[Lojik]

On Red I had BB all to myself, actually was able to pull the whole zone on a bard and log to an alt and loot all the fangs - zero tears.

You could also make your own server with whatever ruleset you want for the same effect. It'd be just like red, minus the trolling and whining in ooc.

[Neesow.Shadowleaf]

Fail to see how a lvl 8-12 toon turns around to kill someone farming fangs out of level range.

REGARDLESS!!!! Easy fix quit QQ'ing and move to a different zone? I mean lord people, is the only way you get your toons leveled? If you want a nice easy time go ahead and see link below :

http://www.ezserveronline.com/forums/

Can even start with your epic!

[Kasyra]

its like we cant go a single month without someone bitching about BB fangs...good grief charlie brown, just stop kicking that football.

[Messianic]

REGARDLESS!!!! Easy fix quit QQ'ing and move to a different zone? I mean lord people, is the only way you get your toons leveled? If you want a nice easy time go ahead and see link below :

http://www.ezserveronline.com/forums/

Can even start with your epic!

So much for a "quick fix".

Sorry, PvP doesn't solve anything unless you actually enjoy EQ PvP. And most people don't.

[Glenzig]

The only actual solution to this is to get up at about 5 a.m. on Sunday morning, camp the entire BB zone until about noon. By that time you will be the level 18 duchebag that people post about on the forums, and you will realize why people do this.

[Supaskillz]

I be fair bb was possibly worse live. Packed with tons of people in proper level range training constantly.

[Raavak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDjCqjzbvJY

[loramin]

its like we cant go a single month without someone bitching about BB fangs...good grief charlie brown, just stop kicking that football.

Blackburrow issues are only relevant to low level players, most of whom are new. New players (by definition) are not familiar with the long history of forum posts here, so they keep making new ones. Therefore, until we stop having new players (or at least new humans/barbarians), or until the devs fix the quests to stop giving such good exp to high level characters, these threads will never end.

[Messianic]

I be fair bb was possibly worse live. Packed with tons of people in proper level range training constantly.

This has been mentioned countless times. Either you can have 30+ people who can level off the actual mobs keeping respawns on their timers or you can have a few people doing it. Same result, different circumstances.

But... get potentially reported and banned over training folks because you're insistent that people not do what incentive structures demand? That solves the problem for them, not you.

Sorry, the fangs *are* ridiculously good exp. And you can't tell other people how to level. Your best bet is to do the legwork to prove they're awarding too much exp at higher levels. But for the time investment for that...why not just level somewhere else? Let other jerks fight over gnoll fangs. There are plenty of great places to level, although I grant that leveling in BB has a special quality.

[Neesow.Shadowleaf]

If you really wanna grind stuff with a turn in quest :

http://wiki.project1999.com/Crushbone_Belts
http://wiki.project1999.com/Crushbone_Shoulderpads_Quest

Is another great way to get extra xp..

[Supaskillz]

Lightstones in nk too.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Scarcity of Blackburrow mobs = :

- longer downtime.
- frustration.
- literally mead and gnoll asses for loot.
- angsty forum posts.
- cancer.

The zone sucks ass and always has. It is also classic as fuck. You wanna know why?

"Nearly full group looking for 1 more @ elite edge!!"

That's right, 5-6 people camping 4 mobs.....

[Samoht Farstrider]

1) Go to Qeynos Hills
2) Kill Rabid Wolves and Grizzly
3) Repeat 2) until no more space in backpacks
4) Turn in to Cleric guild
5) Profit

[baalzy]

BB has an atrociously long repop time. There are only enough spawns to keep 3 people in the lvl 7-10 range busy with moderate twinking. The elites room would squish them like bugs, likely the gnoll commander too. Would be difficult for them to take on the random additional guards too

You would be better off just camping the 7 statics and 2 roamers which are only a 6min repop down than going into BB when there are more than 3 level appropriate people in there.

[BigHurb]

now what you would be better off doing is going to unrest or somewhere people power level and getting buffs... not somewhere in the middle of nowhere that people rage over for no reason!

[Swish]

Nerf the fang quest. The CB belts got a nerf, the scorpion pincers got a heavy nerf, the bard mail quest got a nerf... fair is fair ;)

[GinnasP99]

Hail, A Seafury Cyclops....

[Colgate]

man i love playing on the red server where i can just kill people and take their camps instead of writing essays on the forums expecting pity

8)

[Leeyuuduu]

man i love playing on the red server where i can just kill people and take their camps instead of writing essays on the forums expecting pity

8)

yes all those 60 people on the PvP server mmm..that's like what, a dozen or so camps across the entire freaking game world?

[Masq]

never hunted in BB, whats the hype?

how far can these gnoll fangs take a lowbie?

[pharmakos]

the other morning there were 15 people in qeynos hills and 10 in blackburrow at like 9AM

at that same time i think Red's population was roughly 25

they have a point

[baalzy]

never hunted in BB, whats the hype?

how far can these gnoll fangs take a lowbie?

Guy on the red server took his cleric from 5-39 recently purely on BB fangs. Think it took him ~2 weeks.

Wouldn't recommend for a melee class. Being able to AOE makes it significantly more efficient.

Won't work on blue though, too much competition.

[Champion_Standing]

man i love playing on the red server where nobody else is ever camping anything.

8)

FTFY

[Glenzig]

man i love playing on the red server where i can just kill people and take their camps instead of writing essays on the forums expecting pity

8)

Wait...there are people on the red server?

[Swish]

there's some pent up aggression seeping through this thread - there's only one server that's gonna get that out, and it isn't blue.

[JackFlash]

Guy on the red server took his cleric from 5-39 recently purely on BB fangs. Think it took him ~2 weeks.

Wouldn't recommend for a melee class. Being able to AOE makes it significantly more efficient.

Won't work on blue though, too much competition.

Winning

[Neesow.Shadowleaf]

yes all those 60 people on the PvP server mmm..that's like what, a dozen or so camps across the entire freaking game world?

There is 117 buddy get it right..

[Quineloe]

Pretty sure this is false. You can't sit in frenzy and claim lord also just bc you have a group that can kill all of those mobs. Also leaving a mob on its spawn point for 1 minute that is part of your camp doesn't mean you forfeit that part of your camp

The way I read it, you can easily claim frenzy magi and lord as long as you're alone in the area, but if someone shows up who also wishes to camp this stuff, you have to choose which one you want to keep, they choose theirs and everything else becomes FFA

or from the other perspective, you can't just move into the cleared Lord room because the people that have been clearing it have pulled it to AM.

[Champion_Standing]

there's some pent up aggression seeping through this thread - there's only one server that's gonna get that out, and it isn't blue.

But Warhammer online got shut down :(

[freez]

I'm seeing it everyday. Level 13+ people wiping out every single gnoll in BB. Chanters grabbing a commander and parking him right at the bridge (the first bridge) just to wipe 4+ gnolls they get no exp for.

Level 5-11s are there for a reason. The gnolls aren't green to them, and therefore they get exp for killing them. Stop killing them all. It's a dick move. Go camp the elites.

This obsession with fangs is idiotic. Sure, they're good XP, but when you're taking XP from legitimate players who are within the proper level to play the game normally, you're not right.

It's sad when all I can do is hope for them to die. And we all have been there - we know how much that sucks. It shouldn't come to that.





wow blue


this is real life

[Kruniac]

But Warhammer online got shut down :(

And we're working on the emu for it. :P

[BigHurb]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=823_1229812965

[Frug]

Suckling the teat of easy XP - although the rewards for this quest are not classic, that sure is.

[Supaskillz]

Suckling the teat of easy XP - although the rewards for this quest are not classic, that sure is.

Can you prove it?

[Frug]

Can you prove it?

Just my memory, which can be faulty, and the numerous threads and quotes and posts that are brought up in all the other threads about this craphole.

[BigHurb]

yup you can get some sweeet 'spee

[Kekephee]

Protip: Every time you post a thread shrieking about the fact that there are people who are farming gnoll fangs for easy exp beyond 20, a new person finds out that you can farm gnoll fangs for easy exp beyond 20 and decides to go to blackburrow

[JackFlash]

^^ true story

[loramin]

Y'all are missing the fact that the people starting these threads aren't grizzled forum questers, they're newbies to the server who think "hey this looks just like the EQ I remember from 1999" ... until they get to Blackburrow, and then they think "WTF is this? Live players never did this".

Telling them that they're only teaching people to abuse the quest doesn't help. The next person who starts a thread like this isn't going to have read this thread or your "protip".

As I keep saying, the only way to solve this is to fix the code. As long as higher levels kill all the low level mobs in a low level zone, lower level players are going to complain (with threads here). And as long as an experience exploit exists (IMHO a level 20 getting levels off a level 10 quest is an exploit), people are going to take advantage. You can't guilt them in to not taking advantage of it, because this is an exp (and gear) getting game; blaming someone for getting exp quickly is blaming them for playing EQ well.

[pharmakos]

Protip: Every time you post a thread shrieking about the fact that there are people who are farming gnoll fangs for easy exp beyond 20, a new person finds out that you can farm gnoll fangs for easy exp beyond 20 and decides to go to blackburrow

also every time you're alt-tabbed over to the forums to bitch in the gnoll fang thread, someone else beats you to a gnoll that just spawned

[Yonkec]

Did I miss something or are BB Gnolls now the sole source of experience for toons around level 10? There are so many places to exp at that level, why exactly is a single zone with one quest the source of so much drama? If you are familiar with EQ you know damn well what your alternatives are, stop trying to claim you are more important that someone elses alt and should have first claim to something.

[loramin]

Did I miss something or are BB Gnolls now the sole source of experience for toons around level 10? There are so many places to exp at that level

I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I started as a Barbarian, both on live and here on P99. For Barbarians, as well as for Qeynos humans (and really for Erudites too), Blackburrow is THE dungeon when you start, just as Crushbone is THE dungeon for elves/dwarves/gnomes. You can't tell me that's not classic EQ.

When you're new, whether new to EQ or new to P99, you don't think "gee, Blackburrow is crowded with high level characters, I'll go find a druid, get him to give me a free port since I'm new, go to a different dungeon that I found on the Per Level Hunting Guide, and then get a druid to port me back when I need to train/get spells". You think "what the hell are these people doing in my starting dungeon? This is the one place Barbarians/Humans/Erudites are supposed to learn how to play EQ."

Now of course you can XP in Everfrost plain, Qeynos Hills, or even Permafrost. But two of those aren't dungeons, and the third is essentially deserted. Newbies should have a starting dungeon. They learn important things about grouping, surviving trains, etc. that will matter later on in their EQ careers.

Instead of saying "let's have higher level characters prevent 1/3rd of all new characters from having a starting dungeon" and blaming the victims for not going somewhere that:

A) they probably don't know about
B) they don't know how to get to
C) is far from their starting city

how about we try to figure out a way to make our classic EQ emulator actually emulate classic EQ when it comes to something incredibly basic: starting dungeons?

[Swish]

Can you prove it?

"Proof" didn't stop anything when it came to the scorpion pincer quest getting nerfed on day 2-3 of Kunark. Lots of people were buying up scorp pincers at 10pp each, 20pp each etc... to try and get ahead on their iksar.

A big ole hammer got dropped, and it never got adjusted back :/

[Utmost]

I wish I could pause Swish's current sig

[Conscript]

BB is why I deleted my enchanter and rolled bard.

Over-camped areas are just old. I'll just swarm the zones.

[kylok]

As I keep saying, the only way to solve this is to fix the code. As long as higher levels kill all the low level mobs in a low level zone, lower level players are going to complain (with threads here). And as long as an experience exploit exists (IMHO a level 20 getting levels off a level 10 quest is an exploit), people are going to take advantage.

This topic has been discussed for years, literally and so far no one has come up with any conclusive evidence that the code implemented in this case does not accurately reflect live for the corollary time period. Therefore there is no code to fix, 'cause it's not broken. There's no experience exploit either, just working as intended.

An example of something that was indeed broken was the http://wiki.project1999.com/Protect_the_Shipyard when Kunark launched. I was getting stupid exp off of that quest and did more or less all of lvl 51 on it in less than 10 hours on a monk.

[myxomatosii]

Been here for over 4 years now.. BB sits empty for 3.5 of them, at least its being used now.

[radditsu]

Yeah when I started that place was less than empty. I gnoll murdered to my hearts content.

[thugcruncher]

http://f0.bcbits.com/img/0001765021_10.jpg

[phacemeltar]

i know how to solve this.. someone with a wiz porter should bind in BB and offer shuttle service to gfay on peak days. faydwer is very underutilized.

[Breeziyo]

10 pages or bust

almost there let's go team

[drktmplr12]

i did it!

edit.. wait no i didnt.

inb4 page 10 in that case

[Stonecrush]

More fuel for the fire!

How about those dang bards stealing all of my mobs in the OT! Ruining my playing experience. While they prance around singing songs! Missing the old OT experience of Goons running up and slapping me while reading my spell book before 35!

Bards need to stop taking 40 minutes to kill their swarms! You do he math it takes 10-15 mins for each mob to repop, 15 x 40 = 600 minutes of me not getting my EXP! Dag nabbit! Go prance back in some other zone.

PS. I hope a goon hits your swarm and summons you!

Come on people Pick a side!

Now back to your regular scheduled venting about nothing anyone should really care about because there are enough zones in this game to make exp from.

This makes it to 10 pages. I am some what glad to be apart of that.

[Messianic]

Instead of saying "let's have higher level characters prevent 1/3rd of all new characters from having a starting dungeon" and blaming the victims for not going somewhere that:

A) they probably don't know about
B) they don't know how to get to
C) is far from their starting city

how about we try to figure out a way to make our classic EQ emulator actually emulate classic EQ when it comes to something incredibly basic: starting dungeons?

The reason we don't is because you can't emulate the lack of knowledge of the game that existed before. And short of implementing a fix that isn't itself classic (i.e. no drops unless lblue or higher) or banning higher levels from the zone somehow, you can't stop them.

Sorry, the only thing that is claimed to be emulated is the actual game. You can't emulate players from 1999-2001.

[Stonecrush]

The reason we don't is because you can't emulate the lack of knowledge of the game that existed before. And short of implementing a fix that isn't itself classic (i.e. no drops unless lblue or higher) or banning higher levels from the zone somehow, you can't stop them.

Sorry, the only thing that is claimed to be emulated is the actual game. You can't emulate players from 1999-2001.

Yep

Plus there are TONS of other zones to level in and avoid the nuts in Black Burrow.

Hang in there. Besides if I can do it..

http://www.sadmuffin.net/cherrybam/graphics/comments-encouragement/encouragement002.gif

[mgellan]

If you really wanna grind stuff with a turn in quest :

http://wiki.project1999.com/Crushbone_Belts
http://wiki.project1999.com/Crushbone_Shoulderpads_Quest

Is another great way to get extra xp..

Yeah true, but at the same time if you want to level your alt go sit in GF/CB and auction for droppable belts and pads, makes newbs some plat and you don't piss off a whole bunch of people who are playing for perhaps the first time and are an infusion of new blood on the server!

Regards,
Mg

[loramin]

Sorry, the only thing that is claimed to be emulated is the actual game. You can't emulate players from 1999-2001.

Ok, I get the whole classic mechanics vs. classic environment thing. This server favors classic mechanics over classic environment, except when it gets to be a pain for the GMs (eg. boats, raiding).

But here's the thing: people back on live may have been ignorant, but they weren't stupid. If you were leveling off gnoll fangs, then you hit level 15, and gnoll fangs were still giving better XP than anywhere else, it's not like you went "It's 1999 therefore I will stop doing a quest that gives great XP".

No, you stopped doing the quest because it stopped giving good XP. This happened naturally on live for years. People reached a certain level and they moved on from Blackburrow, not because of ignorance, but because the mechanics supported it. While I don't have exact facts on how much XP a gnoll fang gave at level 15 on live, I know that in 1999 level 15-20+ characters weren't dominating the zone to collect fangs, and I know they would have if if the mechanics encouraged it. Therefore, I can infer that something about the mechanics here on 99 are off.

[Mirana]

But here's the thing: people back on live may have been ignorant, but they weren't stupid. If you were leveling off gnoll fangs, then you hit level 15, and gnoll fangs were still giving better XP than anywhere else, it's not like you went "It's 1999 therefore I will stop doing a quest that gives great XP".

No, you stopped doing the quest because it stopped giving good XP. This happened naturally on live for years. People reached a certain level and they moved on from Blackburrow, not because of ignorance, but because the mechanics supported it. While I don't have exact facts on how much XP a gnoll fang gave at level 15 on live, I know that in 1999 level 15-20+ characters weren't dominating the zone to collect fangs, and I know they would have if if the mechanics encouraged it. Therefore, I can infer that something about the mechanics here on 99 are off.

To repeat what others have said before me - the way we get these issues fixed on this server is by posting a bug thread and supporting it with numerous links to classic data, not by complaining about it on the server forums.

[radditsu]

Live was all about the crushbone. Why not go to crushbone? I bet crushbone is good exp

[loramin]

To repeat what others have said before me - the way we get these issues fixed on this server is by posting a bug thread and supporting it with numerous links to classic data, not by complaining about it on the server forums.

I'm one of those who said as much earlier in the thread. But I wasn't trying to convince the devs or complain about anything; I was just trying to explain to the people who say "there's nothing wrong with the mechanics, people do things here they didn't do on live." When those things required obscure knowledge, like the WC cap or using puppet strings to get an OT hammer sure, but when we are talking about stopping a quest at a certainl level, that you've already been doing for several levels before, that's a not a function of player knowledge, it's the mechanics.

[Messianic]

But here's the thing: people back on live may have been ignorant, but they weren't stupid. If you were leveling off gnoll fangs, then you hit level 15, and gnoll fangs were still giving better XP than anywhere else, it's not like you went "It's 1999 therefore I will stop doing a quest that gives great XP".
No, you stopped doing the quest because it stopped giving good XP.

A lot of people never leveled there, and many people just didn't pursue it because they assumed it would flatline (and the loot sucks ass, plus the rest of the EQ world is new, whereas you've been in the same place for days, and the place was so permacamped you couldn't camp the place uninhibited for hours like you can here (if you go during off hours as I have a bunch of times, you can). Plus, there are tons of ridiculous exploits from live that took months/years to actually surface because people just didn't widely share them.

Assuming "If it provides good exp people will just keep doing it" is far too simplistic. Truth is they won't - a vast majority of the server, despite far more knowledge of the fact, completely ignores BB or has still never done the tooth quest. That should prove to you that your premises aren't quite accurate.

This happened naturally on live for years. People reached a certain level and they moved on from Blackburrow, not because of ignorance, but because the mechanics supported it. While I don't have exact facts on how much XP a gnoll fang gave at level 15 on live, I know that in 1999 level 15-20+ characters weren't dominating the zone to collect fangs, and I know they would have if if the mechanics encouraged it. Therefore, I can infer that something about the mechanics here on 99 are off.

You can guess they might be, but BB isn't currently dominated by 15-20s except during peak or sub-peak hours. I went there all the time early AM (EST) or mid-day on weekdays recently.

Again, this server is populated by people who know the game incomprehensibly better than in 1999 and the abuse of this exp is still extremely minimal. It stands to reason that with a vastly lower knowledge of the exp in 1999 they'd utilize it far less than we do here in terms of population - which means it's not even a blip on your radar in 1999, and it's barely one nowadays (the server has been up for almost 5 years and this has never been a consistent complaint until recently)?

[Mirana]

I'm one of those who said as much earlier in the thread. But I wasn't trying to convince the devs or complain about anything; I was just trying to explain to the people who say "there's nothing wrong with the mechanics, people do things here they didn't do on live." When those things required obscure knowledge, like the WC cap or using puppet strings to get an OT hammer sure, but when we are talking about stopping a quest at a certainl level, that you've already been doing for several levels before, that's a not a function of player knowledge, it's the mechanics.

Ah ok i misunderstood your angle, i apologize

[Pyrocat]

10 pages or bust

exceeding expectations itt

[loramin]

many people just didn't pursue it because they assumed it would flatline (and the loot sucks ass, plus the rest of the EQ world is new, whereas you've been in the same place for days, and the place was so permacamped you couldn't camp the place uninhibited for hours like you can here (if you go during off hours as I have a bunch of times, you can).
Sure, lots of people liked exploring. But even back in 99 (some) people absolutely were trying to level as quickly as possible. People had friends to catch up to, and even people with no friends had played other RPGs and knew all about the importance of leveling. And that only became more true in 2000, 2001, etc.

Plus, there are tons of ridiculous exploits from live that took months/years to actually surface because people just didn't widely share them.
Staying in the same exact place you are and doing the same quest you've been doing is not a ridiculous exploit. It doesn't require any special knoweldge (unlike say WC caps, OT hammers, or even just recharging items).

Assuming "If it provides good exp people will just keep doing it" is far too simplistic. Truth is they won't - a vast majority of the server, despite far more knowledge of the fact, completely ignores BB or has still never done the tooth quest. That should prove to you that your premises aren't quite accurate.

A lot of people never leveled there

So, because only 1/3rd (maybe 1/4th post-Kunark) of all players start with a certain dungeon, nothing can be worng with that dungeon?

(the server has been up for almost 5 years and this has never been a consistent complaint until recently)?
I've only been here about a year, but I'm pretty sure the population is at a historic high ... which would explain why an issue like this, which is only relevant when the zone gets crowded, would only come up now.

The only other difference I could see between P99 and live is the culture/GMs. Maybe all level 20s just felt too guilty to take BB gnolls from lower levels on live. Or maybe GMs kicked such players out of the zone or something; I don't remember anything like that, but I guess it's possible. However, it's just illogical to insist that the quest gave the exact same XP on live, but for no reason everyone stopped doing it at a certain level. They stopped for a reason, either because of GM/cultural pressure or (more likely I think) because the mechanics were different.

[Xanzinder]

I haven't been to BB on P99 nor did I hunt there much on Live. A simple search in Allakhazams forums can tell us how it was in classic though...

#Jul 06 2000 at 12:46 PMRating: Decent
tyrel ECI
Anonymous
I turned in 122 gnoll fangs to the captin of the guard then i turned in the moonstones and i recieved 3/4 bub of xp at lvl 26!!!! plus it is a great way to build faction especially for a de sk!!!!

Or from September 7, 2000
I handed in about 40 fangs at lvl 15, and gained almost 2.5 bubs of exp, this quest is very good exp for lower lvls. Plus the faction you get from the fangs and moonstones is great, as by the time the corrupt guards would want to kill me, I will have already left for newer zones for bigger foes.
____________________________
"Pain is your best friend, it reminds you that you are still alive"

Not sure what XP is being given out now, but that's how it was in classic

[kylok]

I haven't been to BB on P99 nor did I hunt there much on Live. A simple search in Allakhazams forums can tell us how it was in classic though...

#Jul 06 2000 at 12:46 PMRating: Decent
tyrel ECI
Anonymous
I turned in 122 gnoll fangs to the captin of the guard then i turned in the moonstones and i recieved 3/4 bub of xp at lvl 26!!!! plus it is a great way to build faction especially for a de sk!!!!

Or from September 7, 2000
I handed in about 40 fangs at lvl 15, and gained almost 2.5 bubs of exp, this quest is very good exp for lower lvls. Plus the faction you get from the fangs and moonstones is great, as by the time the corrupt guards would want to kill me, I will have already left for newer zones for bigger foes.
____________________________
"Pain is your best friend, it reminds you that you are still alive"

Not sure what XP is being given out now, but that's how it was in classic

[baalzy]

I haven't been to BB on P99 nor did I hunt there much on Live. A simple search in Allakhazams forums can tell us how it was in classic though...

#Jul 06 2000 at 12:46 PMRating: Decent
tyrel ECI
Anonymous
I turned in 122 gnoll fangs to the captin of the guard then i turned in the moonstones and i recieved 3/4 bub of xp at lvl 26!!!! plus it is a great way to build faction especially for a de sk!!!!

Or from September 7, 2000
I handed in about 40 fangs at lvl 15, and gained almost 2.5 bubs of exp, this quest is very good exp for lower lvls. Plus the faction you get from the fangs and moonstones is great, as by the time the corrupt guards would want to kill me, I will have already left for newer zones for bigger foes.
____________________________
"Pain is your best friend, it reminds you that you are still alive"

Not sure what XP is being given out now, but that's how it was in classic
122 gnoll fangs would be like 3/4 of a level at lvl 26 for an SK on p99. Not 3/4 of a yellow.

40 fangs at level 15 would be a full level and then some on p99. I did 17.8 - 20 with 105 fangs.

I'm currently gaining a little over 5% per 4 fangs at level 21 as a ranger. Starting to wonder if Xp rewards went down relative to your level and weren't static amounts on live.

[Xanzinder]

122 gnoll fangs would be like 3/4 of a level at lvl 26 for an SK on p99. Not 3/4 of a yellow.

40 fangs at level 15 would be a full level and then some on p99. I did 17.8 - 20 with 105 fangs.

I'm currently gaining a little over 5% per 4 fangs at level 21 as a ranger. Starting to wonder if Xp rewards went down relative to your level and weren't static amounts on live.

If that's the case the XP is way to high. People earlier in the thread were asking for proof... This is the proof that the XP for the Gnoll Fang quest is to high and is "not" classic.

[Kekephee]

If that's the case the XP is way to high. People earlier in the thread were asking for proof... This is the proof that the XP for the Gnoll Fang quest is to high and is "not" classic.

Fuck, I guess I'd better start farming bb on my Red wizard before they nerf the fangs

[baalzy]

Sorry, was 18.8 - 20 with 105 fangs. Gaining just over 5% (sometimes i get 6% total from a 4 fang hand in) at lvl 21 is definitely accurate.

[Xanzinder]

Sorry, was 18.8 - 20 with 105 fangs. Gaining just over 5% (sometimes i get 6% total from a 4 fang hand in) at lvl 21 is definitely accurate.

That may be accurate for today, not classic though. Sounds like you are getting about the same percentages of XP that a level 15 was getting back in 2000. Way more than what a level 26 was getting back in 2000 though. At level 26, 4 teeth should net about .5%.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

All of that is considered evidence.

All of that can be entered as a bug report.

Only YOU can save Blackburrow.

[Leeyuuduu]

We should discuss something less controversial than BB fangs, such as religion or politics

[lecompte]

Man, Spitty, where were you 6 pages ago, needed one of your raging heart filled posts.

That's fine. When I "accidentally" train people in BB and they just so happen to die, I don't want to hear any complaining. Fair is fair.
If this is just venting, I understand, it happens to the best of us. If this is true, I hope you train someone who petitions you, references this post and you are suspended for a month.

I actually think you should have the right to claim a camp within bb even if a lvl 60 and his pwr lvl friend are able to kill everything in zone before repops
Exactly. Pick a camp. If you're disconnent with the 20 min spawn timer, find someplace betta.

Insta fix... Go to Red... Go farm Gnoll Teeth... If you get this same problem.. Turn around and kill the sob?

Want to act against people doing what you don't want them to do? Like training people? Go play on a red.

We should discuss something less controversial than BB fangs, such as religion or politics
Tunare is the best god and vote Ping Fuzzlecutter for Antonican Traders Union President: He has the Formula for success!

[kylok]

All of that is considered evidence.

All of that can be entered as a bug report.

Only YOU can save Blackburrow.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3003875

Just don't make any duplicates =)

[pasi]

Went from 4-24 farming gnoll teeth. No regrets.

[cries4hardcore]

I agree, go elsewhere if need be, or share, or whatever blah response people are making.
I just wanted to comment quickly on the whole classic thing. People seem to really like to shut folks down by saying its classic, so argument ends here.
I think some of us might be missing the point a bit? Just because game mechanics are technically classic, does that mean that the experience is classic? You guys like being able to link items right? Pretty sure that's not classic. Also, I don't know about your server, but when I played on Live epics were not being mq'd all day and night. Technically it's classic, but the experience is not in that regard.
**stop buying epic mq's so the market goes away. Earn that shit, you will probably never have another chance in the future to do your own epic quest once p99 is gone.

[Fuddwin]

TL;DR Since when has Butcherblock become such a great exp zone?

[Ennewi]

TL;DR Since when has Butcherblock become such a great exp zone?

Two words: bone chips.

[Halius]

Two words: bone chips.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5210otkEJ1rofxqqo1_400.gif

[loramin]

I think some of us might be missing the point a bit? Just because game mechanics are technically classic, does that mean that the experience is classic? You guys like being able to link items right? Pretty sure that's not classic. Also, I don't know about your server, but when I played on Live epics were not being mq'd all day and night. Technically it's classic, but the experience is not in that regard.

It's impossible to re-create the classic experience ... sadly. Every time I see a non-paladin get a Soulfire I cry a little on the inside.

But the thing is, if the devs started "fixing" that, they'd "fix" epic MQs next. Then they'd "fix" Chardok AE groups, which weren't common on live back then, but absolutely did exist (my friend did them). And then they'd "fix" ... well you get the idea. They'd never finish, because no matter what they "fix" nothing can leech our collective knowledge of EQ from the internet and our brains.

So, rather than shoot for a server with a classic experience and classic mechanics, and wind up with neither, they shoot for what they can actually achieve: classic mechanics.

[Iumuno]

It's impossible to re-create the classic experience ... sadly. Every time I see a non-paladin get a Soulfire I cry a little on the inside.

But the thing is, if the devs started "fixing" that, they'd "fix" epic MQs next. Then they'd "fix" Chardok AE groups, which weren't common on live back then, but absolutely did exist (my friend did them). And then they'd "fix" ... well you get the idea. They'd never finish, because no matter what they "fix" nothing can leech our collective knowledge of EQ from the internet and our brains.

So, rather than shoot for a server with a classic experience and classic mechanics, and wind up with neither, they shoot for what they can actually achieve: classic mechanics.

And yet we have house rules, such as no multiboxing and enforced rotation because it was deemed - and I agree - that they were necessary because not doing that was detrimental to the community. I for one, think they should go beyond that and fix other things - what you mentioned among them.

[loramin]

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live, and so it's perfectly accurate to ban it here too. Paid multiboxing did exist on live, but it's prevented here not by the devs, but by legal restrictions. This puts it in the same category as item links (ie. something the devs have no control over fixing).

As for rotations, those did exist on live, on some servers at least, so there's nothing un-classic about them. Of course, some servers didn't have them, making "rotation-less" classic also. We had a rotation-less server here for a long time, and now we have a system that's largely rotation-less for those who want it, and rotated for those that do. That's about as classic as you can get when the classic servers themselves were never in agreement in the first place.

But none of that involves changing the way the game worked on the original classic servers. We do have things that truly are un-classic here, like the boats, but if they were truly classic (ie. super buggy) it would be a giant pain for the GMs. I think "absolutely as classic (mechanically) as possible, except when it's a giant pain for the GMs" is a reasonable caveat for Rogean, Nilbog, and the rest to have :)

[Conscript]

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live

Definitely allowed on current live.

There is no such thing as grouping in EQ anymore unless it's with yourself

[HawkMasterson1999]

The fang quest is broken. Were not gonna stop farming fangs until the exp sucks from it.

[Rhambuk]

isn't this monopolozing zone content? a simple petition should get the situation resolved.

assuming there are gm's on

[Kasyra]

isn't this monopolozing zone content? a simple petition should get the situation resolved.

assuming there are gm's on

as long as youre not aoeing the entire zone, stealing engaged mobs or training newbs, petition wont do anything.

[cries4hardcore]

It's impossible to re-create the classic experience ... sadly. Every time I see a non-paladin get a Soulfire I cry a little on the inside.

But the thing is, if the devs started "fixing" that, they'd "fix" epic MQs next. Then they'd "fix" Chardok AE groups, which weren't common on live back then, but absolutely did exist (my friend did them). And then they'd "fix" ... well you get the idea. They'd never finish, because no matter what they "fix" nothing can leech our collective knowledge of EQ from the internet and our brains.

So, rather than shoot for a server with a classic experience and classic mechanics, and wind up with neither, they shoot for what they can actually achieve: classic mechanics.

I don't think it's the gm's responsibility. I think it could easily be handled by self restraint. Thing is, for some reason, people really can't get enough plat. I personally don't think this should be so monetized, but clearly people have bought in. I have done the cleric epic twice in my life, I plan on doing it again. I don't care how many rage fire spawns I have to compete at for turn in. I just don't want to miss the opportunity to earn it. How many other chances am I going to get? Does it sucks that it's so heavily contested? Yes. Doesn't make buying it not lame to me. I think the whole fangs thing is similar in a way. The issue is greed. If you see people there, don't take every mob in the zone just because you're higher level and can clear it while some lowbi group has to go one mob at a time. But, once again, greed(and laziness).

[HawkMasterson1999]

This doesn't need a "non-classic" fix. They just need to bring the quest reward in line with classic and people will leave the damn gnolls alone after lvl 12 - 15. People don't do this at 20+ because its easy, they do it because its really good exp.

[cries4hardcore]

What about getting a ton of zip from green mob drops is not easy?

[loramin]

Definitely allowed on current live.

Sorry, I meant on live during the classic era. You are (*sigh*) correct about live currently.

[Buellen]

Research completed.

post on bugs forum

*Larzuk Logic On:*2/12/2001 3:22:29 PM Rank:** worst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 best
hello Everyone. I will give some good Simple info. You can do 2 Quest with the teeth and there is other one that connects to it when you do one quest total of 3 Quest in 1.

Well 1st Quest is give 3 teeth at a time to the Warrior Trainer (its a Girl). She is located in Hallas. Give her 3 at a Time you get EXP, Factions, And she gives you food, torches, water and some other stuff.

2nd Quest is in Qeynos. Give 1 teeth at a time to captain Tillin on the balcony of the Arena called "The Grounds of Fate". He gives you EXP, Factions, and Mone Stones. If I remmember right every teeth is 1 moonstone.

The 3rd Quest Comes From the MoonStones. Go to the Bar by the Ports Its named Fish Ale. Something like that =). But its by the ports. Give 4 MoonStones to the Bar keeper in the Very Back of the store. (I forget his name). Give him 4 at at a time or 1, 2, 3, or 4 . I suggest 4 Because its Faster. And hi will give you some Beer. 1 stone = 1 Beer then when the beer stacks up you can sell it for 1 PP 3 Gold 7 Silver 4 Cop.
He will give you the Beer and EXP.

This Quest I think is a great one you get a hell of alot EXP. people under lvl 11 I highly recommend this Quest. I was lvl 13 when I knew about this and I have 93 Teeth lvled me up to lvl 14 and with 87 teeth it gave me 4 1/2 Orange Bubbles. Sweet Quest.

Well thats about It for this Gnoll Fang Quests.
If there is more to it I would like to know.
But this quest for me is no longer worth it I am to high of a lvl for this quest to even give me good EXP. I am lvl 19 now. But I used this quest even when I was lvl 17 and 18 its a good quest. Highly recommend it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see its was 180 fangs for just level 13 and most of 14. no way its supposed to be 300 fangs to go from 11 to 20 as it is here on p1999. obviously the xp for the fang quest is set way way to high here on p1999.

[Iumuno]

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live, and so it's perfectly accurate to ban it here too. Paid multiboxing did exist on live, but it's prevented here not by the devs, but by legal restrictions. This puts it in the same category as item links (ie. something the devs have no control over fixing).

As for rotations, those did exist on live, on some servers at least, so there's nothing un-classic about them. Of course, some servers didn't have them, making "rotation-less" classic also. We had a rotation-less server here for a long time, and now we have a system that's largely rotation-less for those who want it, and rotated for those that do. That's about as classic as you can get when the classic servers themselves were never in agreement in the first place.


Whether it's free or paid has nothing to do with why it's disallowed here... it's a free server, and it's disallowed for social reasons.

Enforced rotation with suspensions were never classic.

But I'm guessing you were already aware of the differences.

[Quineloe]

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live, and so it's perfectly accurate to ban it here too. Paid multiboxing did exist on live,

What is free multiboxing? IIRC; EQ didn't have a free trial for a long time.

[Messianic]

Sure, lots of people liked exploring.

It's not about exploring and that wasn't my point. Its about expectation. People who have played the game on live know the exp slows down elsewhere. People who were playing the game for the first time didn't have any reason to expect that exp was far worse everywhere else. You're assuming they knew it was and so they would "logically" stay put. They don't.


Staying in the same exact place you are and doing the same quest you've been doing is not a ridiculous exploit. It doesn't require any special knoweldge (unlike say WC caps, OT hammers, or even just recharging items).

Knowledge that the fang exp is broken or ridiculously higher than elsewhere is itself special knowledge.

OT Hammers are an interesting point. Basically everyone on p99 has one because we know how to utilize puppet strings and item recharges. This knowledge was just not as ubiquitous on live, nor was the knowledge of some of the more profitable quests. It's not that people were dumb, it's just that information takes time to disperse, and we've had enough time since then for information to almost fully disperse.

But using your logic, I could argue that the puppet strings - OT Hammer trick is invalid because everyone on live should have had an OT Hammer.

You can apply this to anything p99 uses far more heavily than on live. I was just giving you a counterperspective to show you that your premises were assuming far too much to be a really valid argument. Whether or not gnoll fangs are actually broken (it may just be something else in the code, i.e. the scaling of the exp is broken, since the exp given around level 10-12 seems ordinary - it just doesn't drop enough per level) was secondary.

So, because only 1/3rd (maybe 1/4th post-Kunark) of all players start with a certain dungeon, nothing can be worng with that dungeon?

I Didn't argue that.

I've only been here about a year, but I'm pretty sure the population is at a historic high ... which would explain why an issue like this, which is only relevant when the zone gets crowded, would only come up now.

It's historic by only 100 or so. 900+ was very common even a few years ago, especially when BB was more packed when more people were lower level, as opposed to having buttloads of 60s.

However, it's just illogical to insist that the quest gave the exact same XP on live, but for no reason everyone stopped doing it at a certain level.

I'm not asserting that. I'm asserting that people would not have necessarily been mice who hit the food lever in their cage over and over and over if they thought the exp might be just as good elsewhere. I argued that it's *possible* that the exp was the same but folks would have no reason to assume that the exp there was better than anywhere else.

What's irrational is saying that just because some option is the best, obviously everyone will do that, especially when they aren't aware that option is the best.

Free multiboxing was never allowed on live, and so it's perfectly accurate to ban it here too.

Your wording is confusing here - "allowed" is improper. "Free multiboxing" was impossible because the accounts weren't free. Banning it is sort of a compromise because of that fact - not because it wasn't "allowed" on live.

[loramin]

What is free multiboxing? IIRC; EQ didn't have a free trial for a long time.

Exactly; that's what I meant when I said free multiboxing wasn't allowed (free single-boxing wasn't allowed either; SOE wasn't a fan of anything free back then).

"Free multiboxing" was impossible because the accounts weren't free. Banning it is sort of a compromise because of that fact - not because it wasn't "allowed" on live.

Depends on how you look at it, I guess: my point was, there's nothing un-classic about the GM's choices re:boxing on this server (as was being asserted). In the classic era no one could create and run multiple free accounts at once. "Free multiboxing" never was and never will be classic, so there's nothing un-classic about the GMs decision to ban it. Paid multiboxing was classic, but P99 can't charge so it's impossible for them to re-reate that classic aspect.


It's not about exploring and that wasn't my point. Its about expectation. People who have played the game on live know the exp slows down elsewhere. People who were playing the game for the first time didn't have any reason to expect that exp was far worse everywhere else. You're assuming they knew it was and so they would "logically" stay put. They don't.

I totally agree with you that that's true of lots of people. But a non-trivial amount of people would have noticed "hey I spent an hour in BB and got X blue bubbles from the fangs, then I spent an hour in WK and got Y blue bubbles from killing lions, and X > Y."

But using your logic, I could argue that the puppet strings - OT Hammer trick is invalid because everyone on live should have had an OT Hammer.

There's a world of difference between:

A) taking an item that drops off a raid boss (back when relatively few people even got to face, let alone beat such bosses)
B) figuring out that you can use that item to circumvent a quest's faction requirements (on another continent)
C) knowing that one can abuse the buy/sell system to recharge that item
D) sharing that info with others, and not just keeping it a secret with your raid-boss-killing guildies

vs.

A) getting XP somewhere
B) seeing that you're still getting XP there
C) staying there

or:

A) getting XP somewhere
B) exploring for a bit ("let's see what this West Karana place is all about")
C) realizing "hey I was getting way better XP with those fangs than I am killing these lions".
D) returning to the place you got good XP


I'm not asserting that. I'm asserting that people would not have necessarily been mice who hit the food lever in their cage over and over and over if they thought the exp might be just as good elsewhere.

It's funny that you mention that: I specifically remember an article written back in the day explaining EQ players' behavior in terms of an experiment involving rats pushing levers. :)

I argued that it's *possible* that the exp was the same but folks would have no reason to assume that the exp there was better than anywhere else.

What's irrational is saying that just because some option is the best, obviously everyone will do that, especially when they aren't aware that option is the best.

As I've said, I'm not arguing "obviously everyone", I'm arguing obviously some non-trivial amount of people. When 1/3rd-1/4th of the server population passes through a dungeon, and there's a nothing secret about an XP gain there (the "secret tech" of getting that XP is just doing what you've already been doing), some players are going to notice and take advantage of that XP. Even if only 10% (of the 1/4th) thought "lions suck compared to gnoll fangs" when they left BB, and then came back to BB, there would have been enough level 20+s in Blackburrow to make us remember them.

But if you don't think so at this point, I'm certainly not going to convince you, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Given the research done by others in this thread, it's an entirely academic argument at this point anyway.

[kylok]

Some young novelists up in this thread.

[pharmakos]

so many gnolls died to other people whilst typing these posts =p

[Halfelfbard]

think its time to insanely gear a alt and goto black burrow...or bring my bard. *ponders*

[pharmakos]

i was able to solo lockdown a bunch of darkblues/evens mixed in with some greens/lightblues that agroed me running between the various spots. it didn't seem too overcrowded to me once i actually got in there and started killing.

i know blackburrow really well, though (qeynos born and raised, january 2000 =p)

[HippoNipple]

Exactly; that's what I meant when I said free multiboxing wasn't allowed (free single-boxing wasn't allowed either; SOE wasn't a fan of anything free back then).



Depends on how you look at it, I guess: my point was, there's nothing un-classic about the GM's choices re:boxing on this server (as was being asserted). In the classic era no one could create and run multiple free accounts at once. "Free multiboxing" never was and never will be classic, so there's nothing un-classic about the GMs decision to ban it. Paid multiboxing was classic, but P99 can't charge so it's impossible for them to re-reate that classic aspect.




I totally agree with you that that's true of lots of people. But a non-trivial amount of people would have noticed "hey I spent an hour in BB and got X blue bubbles from the fangs, then I spent an hour in WK and got Y blue bubbles from killing lions, and X > Y."



There's a world of difference between:

A) taking an item that drops off a raid boss (back when relatively few people even got to face, let alone beat such bosses)
B) figuring out that you can use that item to circumvent a quest's faction requirements (on another continent)
C) knowing that one can abuse the buy/sell system to recharge that item
D) sharing that info with others, and not just keeping it a secret with your raid-boss-killing guildies

vs.

A) getting XP somewhere
B) seeing that you're still getting XP there
C) staying there

or:

A) getting XP somewhere
B) exploring for a bit ("let's see what this West Karana place is all about")
C) realizing "hey I was getting way better XP with those fangs than I am killing these lions".
D) returning to the place you got good XP




It's funny that you mention that: I specifically remember an article written back in the day explaining EQ players' behavior in terms of an experiment involving rats pushing levers. :)



As I've said, I'm not arguing "obviously everyone", I'm arguing obviously some non-trivial amount of people. When 1/3rd-1/4th of the server population passes through a dungeon, and there's a nothing secret about an XP gain there (the "secret tech" of getting that XP is just doing what you've already been doing), some players are going to notice and take advantage of that XP. Even if only 10% (of the 1/4th) thought "lions suck compared to gnoll fangs" when they left BB, and then came back to BB, there would have been enough level 20+s in Blackburrow to make us remember them.

But if you don't think so at this point, I'm certainly not going to convince you, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Given the research done by others in this thread, it's an entirely academic argument at this point anyway.



http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/75/81/5a/75815afdbf8ae3b2e461f912365da00b.jpg

[Ahldagor]

^hehehehehe, yes!

[Xer0]

As was said in previous threads, if anyone will just take the time to find/submit evidence showing that gnoll fangs weren't this good for higher level characters on live, the devs could fix them and then we wouldn't have level 18s (or whatever) kicking it in a zone designed for level 7s.

But as long as people are lazy (like me) and don't do the research, this is just going to continue. You can't fault people for wanting good exp (even if it is an exploit of sorts), you can only fault the community for not working together to make P99 as classic as possible (and fixing this outlier quest).

You cant fault people using exploits? (even if they are 'of sorts') When did this become a thing? Wasnt there an exploit about making lots of money.. that people got b& for? because.. exploiting game mechanics (of sorts) is wrong?

He's right though, why don't these people just learn to group? I understand its difficult for most neckbeards to socialize, but damn..

[baalzy]

So it's just been revealed to me that Red still has a bit of a scaling XP bonus (seems to fall away after lvl 30ish). All of my gnoll teeth data is from Red. Doesn't mean the xp values aren't still off, it's just not necessarily as bad as I thought it was.

[thugcruncher]

http://i.imgur.com/9moENj6.jpg

[Buellen]

Xp per fang is giving to much xp. I posted both in bugs and here in this thread that the poster from everlore described exact amount of gnoll fangs to go from 13 to 14 then 4 .5 yellows into 14. it was 180 gnoll fangs. he even describes hanging out in BB till 19.
Post date is appropriate for our timeline.

The important data : Currently p1999 you can go from 11 to 20 with just 300 gnolls fangs no way that is Correct amount xp it should have per fang.

Even with say for example 8 fangs more per level thats still 105 for level 15 , 113 for 16, 121 for 17 , 129 for 18., 137 for 19. A total of 605 fangs. that is some dedication to farming green mobs that i do not believe most of the people on this server would do.

i don't remember the xp being so good as it is currently set to here. from my memory the xp returns dwindled down as you gained levels this was my expierence through my leveling in classic.

[Millburn]

Xp per fang is giving to much xp. I posted both in bugs and here in this thread that the poster from everlore described exact amount of gnoll fangs to go from 13 to 14 then 4 .5 yellows into 14. it was 180 gnoll fangs. he even describes hanging out in BB till 19.
Post date is appropriate for our timeline.

The important data : Currently p1999 you can go from 11 to 20 with just 300 gnolls fangs no way that is Correct amount xp it should have per fang.

Even with say for example 8 fangs more per level thats still 105 for level 15 , 113 for 16, 121 for 17 , 129 for 18., 137 for 19. A total of 605 fangs. that is some dedication to farming green mobs that i do not believe most of the people on this server would do.

i don't remember the xp being so good as it is currently set to here. from my memory the xp returns dwindled down as you gained levels this was my expierence through my leveling in classic.

Buellen is the hero this topic needs.

[iknad]

I found this on allakhazam.
exceelant
QuoteReply
# Jul 30 2001 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
mayhim
25 posts
this is an excellant quest for newbies in quenos...when you get to 5th lvl go to blackburrow and save the fangs (they stack)..and when your not busy or you go to quenoys to sell loot complete it.good exp i went from lvl 6 to lvl 7 with 1 stack (includes doing the moonstone part)

Daldane
9 pally Dwarf

It took this guy an entire stack to go from level 6 to level 7. I also found this


RE: faction and XP
QuoteReply
# Sep 07 2000 at 3:58 AM Rating: Decent
Aindolaf
29 posts
I handed in about 40 fangs at lvl 15, and gained almost 2.5 bubs of exp, this quest is very good exp for lower lvls. Plus the faction you get from the fangs and moonstones is great, as by the time the corrupt guards would want to kill me, I will have already left for newer zones for bigger foes.
____________________________
"Pain is your best friend, it reminds you that you are still alive"


Clearly the Gnoll fangs are giving too much experience.