Bundy Ranch - more than just cattle

[Bamz4l]

Bureau of Land Management (BLM), guided by corrupt Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), is doing anything possible to get some land including sending 200 FBI armed forces to a 67 year old man's family ranch to bully him out of the area.

Why?

The son of Senator Harry Reid, Rory Reid, is the primary representative for ENN Energy Group, a Chinese energy company seeking to build a $5 billion solar panel plant on a 9,000-acre Clark County desert plot in Laughlin, Nevada.

Freedom fighters, Armed militants are gathering at the ranch now to protect American rights.

obviously the mainstream media are saying shit like "cattle dispute" or "to protect the turtles" but all those plans for the land re-development are on BLM's website. But that's mainstream for u, they aren't allowed to report connections like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/nevada-rancher-threatens-range-war-feds/story?id=23225314

[Rhambuk]

thought this had something to do with ted bundy

[Bamz4l]

no its about standing up for your freedoms as an American citizen against your own tyrannical government.

[Rhambuk]

Hey man the day we march on washington I am there.

[Bamz4l]

They comparing this to Ruby Ridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge) or Waco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege)

[Bamz4l]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht_UQ8Glxs

[Heywood]

I don't know man, that hick rancher doesn't want to pay the taxes/fees whilst everyone else does? That's not right. He can not acknowledge the government all he wants, his ignorance doesn't make him immune to the laws. I see nothing about BLM or FBI harassing the rancher to sell his land. I can't be bothered to look up more on the subject, but from what you've presented I don't see what the problem is here.


And that youtube video is dumb. You have aggressive people getting up on BLM's grill, what do you expect the rangers to do? I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way BLM handled the situation. Are they supposed to let the "demonstrators" walk up and point their fingers in the rangers' faces? The rangers obviously instructs the group to get back, how hard is that to comprehend.


But I have just now seen your sig Bamzal, and I can tell we have fundamentally different views on the subject and we'll probably not come to agree on this matter. So I'll just bow out and say agree to disagree.

[Bamz4l]

you think a govt take over of your land, only to charge you fees to use it is right? And if not, are you a deadbeat when you refuse to pay for the use of that which has been taken from you by force? And you also think its entitlement to expect to not be violently attacked for speaking your mind?

- BLM was setup to manage ranchers, but is only managing them out of business (so he fired them)

- Harry Reid, with ties to a Chinese company that wants to build a solar farm in Laughlin, and Bundy is in the way of that (http://wikkorg.wordpress.com/2014/04/12/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/). the government goes so far as to start stepping on the Constitutional rights of the people for profit

- "Experience has shown, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Use of the Bundy ranch for a solar array:

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/energy/dry_lake_sez.Par.3790.File.dat/FAQs%20Oct2012.pdf

Bundy ranch in the dry lake area:

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/blm_library/tech_notes.Par.29872.File.dat/TN_444.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's
desert plant

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

note the map on the link below...

Oil and gas under the Bundy ranch

http://www.naturalnews.com/044670_BLM_lies_fracking_leases_Bundy_ranch.html




I linked the mainstream media shit earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht_UQ8Glxs
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/04/breaking-freedom-militia-arrives-at-bundy-ranch-video/

[Sidelle]

I just did a little looking into this and I admit I'm not sure which side is trespassing for sure, since I am still sorting through info, but shouldn't this be more of a local/county/state issue? Not sure why the feds (BLM) have any authority here since it is state property, not federal.

Also wondering why the sheriff in that county isn't exercising his rightful authority and making the feds gtfo so it can be lawfully sorted out between the state and the people.

[Bamz4l]

Bundy claims ancestral rights to graze his cattle on lands his Mormon family settled in the 19th century. He says he doesn’t recognize federal authority over state land. He has no contracts signed with the Federal government.


200 armed forces, helicopters, snipers, contracted cowboys, the Feds are probably spending millions of tax money toward this operation.

[BigHurb]

raising cattle is lazy, expensive, and irresponible.. waste of water and feed. fuck this guy

[valarmorghulis]

I don't know man, that hick rancher doesn't want to pay the taxes/fees whilst everyone else does? That's not right. He can not acknowledge the government all he wants, his ignorance doesn't make him immune to the laws. I see nothing about BLM or FBI harassing the rancher to sell his land. I can't be bothered to look up more on the subject, but from what you've presented I don't see what the problem is here.


And that youtube video is dumb. You have aggressive people getting up on BLM's grill, what do you expect the rangers to do? I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way BLM handled the situation. Are they supposed to let the "demonstrators" walk up and point their fingers in the rangers' faces? The rangers obviously instructs the group to get back, how hard is that to comprehend.


But I have just now seen your sig Bamzal, and I can tell we have fundamentally different views on the subject and we'll probably not come to agree on this matter. So I'll just bow out and say agree to disagree.

You are clueless and retarded. He was paying fee's but he wasn't paying them to the federal government. The ranger's threw a 60 year old woman to the ground for pretty much no reason whatsoever. Their reason for wanting to take the land is so obviously fucking bullshit it's a joke(turtle preservation? ROFL). People like you need to be shot and left for dead.

[Bamz4l]

http://www.futurnamics.com/reid_bundyranch.php
http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/
EXCLUSIVE! THE BUNDY DAUGHTER SPEAKS OUT ON GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST HER FAMILY! (http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/04/09/exclusive-the-bundy-daughter-speaks-out-on-government-terrorism-against-her-family/)

[Ahldagor]

nice slippery slope assumption there

[Bamz4l]

looks like things are getting more heated today:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlCvAWUCcAASuUD.jpg:large

[Bamz4l]

sounds like they got 500+ armed troops today. park rangers carrying AR's ....

http://www.brennerbrief.com/live-video-feed-bundy-ranch/

[Barkingturtle]

Personally, I like turtles.

[BigHurb]

yea idgaf fuck this guy and his "im a white man ive been here" .. want the indians to pull this shit? where does it stop

you're white. follow the laws. sorry you found out too late you will get fucked without money, you fgt

[Heywood]

You are clueless and retarded. He was paying fee's but he wasn't paying them to the federal government. The ranger's threw a 60 year old woman to the ground for pretty much no reason whatsoever. Their reason for wanting to take the land is so obviously fucking bullshit it's a joke(turtle preservation? ROFL). People like you need to be shot and left for dead.


Frothing from the mouth are we?

BLM isn't taking anyone's land. The farmer was grazing his cows on public land. In order to graze on public lands you need to pay a fee - a fee that apparently everyone else in that area pays... except for him. How hard is that for you to comprehend? It's not fair for everyone else who's complying, so why should he get a free ride? On the grounds of "ancestral rights"? Get out of here with that BS.


And you're wrong about "him paying fees, but not to the federal government." Apparently he used to pay the grazing fees, but then he wasn't making any money. So what does he do? Decides to not pay fees. Uh... that's not how it works buddy. I can't open a lemonade stand and start stealing lemons from the store the moment I'm not earning enough money.

To me, it sounds like he hasn't been playing by the rules for the last 20 years and BLM hasn't really done anything about it. An opportunity appears where someone comes in and offers to buy the land from the rancher and the rancher refuses whilst continuing to cause BLM headaches. BLM actually does something about it, and protesters try to spin it around and say it's all a conspiracy to get the rancher to sell his land. Nope, rancher is leeching off the government for years with free grazing and is finally being dealt with.


As for "people like me"? You mean coherent people who can communicate their point across? Yeah, because what we need is more people like you who resort to name calling, and quick to wish harm on people whom don't agree with you.

[Bamz4l]

the people seem to have won a victory against a tyrannical government that was growing out of control

http://offgridsurvival.com/militia-push-feds-out-of-nevada-sheriff-of-clark-county-announces-feds-leaving-bundys-land/


and the cows are returned:

https://twitter.com/indyflynn


http://offgridsurvival.com/wp-content/themes/church_10/images/2014/04/rangewar.jpg

[Bamz4l]

30 Day Fly Over Ban

Although many see this as a victory, others are warning this could just be an attempt to disperse the crowds. As of this morning, the BLM has placed a 30 day no fly zone over the 600,000 acres, causing many to wonder if the BLM will return once the Militia members leave the land. Bundy and supporters have asked the Sheriff to disarm the BLM and permanently have them leave all Nevada land.

[valarmorghulis]

As for "people like me"? You mean coherent people who can communicate their point across? Yeah, because what we need is more people like you who resort to name calling, and quick to wish harm on people whom don't agree with you.

No, I mean idiots who have no clue what they are talking about. The BLM decided to raise his fee's and forced him down to 150 cattle in order to protect a turtle which was considered endangered, only except it's not even close to becoming endangered so they lied. After this breach of contract by the BLM from randomly implementing these new changes he stopped paying which is well within his legal rights. However, worthless idiots like you would apparently rather only the government and corporations to have legal rights and the ability to do whatever the fuck they want, when they want.

[radditsu]

Lock this thread. Trolls being trolls.

[BigHurb]

fuck a cow, fuck the white man

[Ahldagor]

the should shoot all of his cattle then have the irs come at him. make this hick suffer.

[BigHurb]

^^ shoot him with an arrow in the anus and rape his women

[Scrooge]

If anyone here watches the MSM (Mainstream Media), aka; CBS, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, etc., you'll never get the actual truth of the situation. Only through alternate news sites, which are used as proxies by the people involved in said situations, can the truth be exposed for all to see.

[Bamz4l]

^ every day I am realizing this more and more. I actually just had that exact same conversation with my wife. It's fucking crazy that the people with the news vans equipped with satellites cannot be used as a reliable news source. You have to get it from some guy swapping battery packs in his Ipad

[Scrooge]

^ every day I am realizing this more and more. I actually just had that exact same conversation with my wife. It's fucking crazy that the people with the news vans equipped with satellites cannot be used as a reliable news source. You have to get it from some guy swapping batter packs in his Ipad

Check this out, today's news on the matter, with plenty of photos to back it up! http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/04/13/feds-back-down-cattle-freed-patriots-win-the-war-pics/
I'd also recommend that site "pakalertpress.com (http://www.pakalertpress.com)" for daily news, I've been using it for several years now, and it always provides it's sources unlike some other sites which claim to do the same, but don't.

You can't trust the MSM to have any integrity whatsoever, it's not just with this story either, it's with everything else too - including what's going on over in Ukraine! I especially like how the MSM try to tell people how the RT News Network (the only one that still isn't bought and paid for by the elitist scum btw,) that it's a Russian state-funded propaganda machine. It's like they accuse everyone else, of what they're doing, while at the same time claim to be pioneers of truth themselves - which they are not.

The RT News Network, is the only international news agency that still has the balls to tell the truth without any repercussions from anyone above their position(s). If the news anchors of any of the MSM studios even dare to speak any truth at all, they get fired soon as the broadcast is over, you can verify this yourselves if you want.

Btw, I'm in no way trying to derail or hijack this thread, I'm just pointing out the facts for those who cannot see them otherwise, regardless of the news story being discussed!

[BigHurb]

whats crazy is that people are animals and refuse to believe this!

that man has no rights to that land for his cattle anymore, this is what he gets for being part of the colonizers... sometimes they colonize you, and there is no one left to fight.

but dont take that lesson to heart, keep treating people like shit!

[Sidelle]

Why are some of you so fast to resort to insults rather than having a respectful discussion in an OT thread? This isn't RnF, guys. How about a little maturity. Some of us are actually trying to follow this story and don't appreciate you coming here and basically taking a dump in a non-RnF thread..

[BigHurb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSPotJs8vU thats a problem, not one guys cows

[Sidelle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cSPotJs8vU

^^I agree with you. That is a problem.

Citizens that know their rights are going to be the first ones rounded up and put into the secret prison camps around the country when they become operational. I might see some of you there in the future. (Lol)

[Scrooge]

Why are some of you so fast to resort to insults rather than having a respectful discussion in an OT thread? This isn't RnF, guys. How about a little maturity. Some of us are actually trying to follow this story and don't appreciate you coming here and basically taking a dump in a non-RnF thread..

The answer to that imo, is that people take dumps in other threads they don't like, but when it happens to a thread they do like, suddenly it's immature. My advice to posters in any thread, be respectful to the thread, and the thread will be respectful to you! Or treat others how you want to be treated!

[Quineloe]

Check this out, today's news on the matter, with plenty of photos to back it up! http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/04/13/feds-back-down-cattle-freed-patriots-win-the-war-pics/
I'd also recommend that site "pakalertpress.com (http://www.pakalertpress.com)" for daily news, I've been using it for several years now, and it always provides it's sources unlike some other sites which claim to do the same, but don't.



You do realize that entire article is nothing but copypasta from the Daily Mail, one of the worst pieces of Mainstream yellow press?

It's completely lacking depth

[LulzSect]

I don't want to pay taxes. Oh noes the gubment stealing mah cattle! Gather up wit ur guns brothers!

Fucking OBAMA

LoL

They're lucky we didn't send a drone to wipe them out. Fucking hicks.

[BigHurb]

why cant i carry a machine gun into a school cafeteria!?!?! ITS MUH RIGHT

unless he wants to gay marry all those cows i say we eat them

[Trosh]

Did a bit of research on this.. I can't believe it, honestly.. These mercenaries that the corporations hired parading under some government authority are going out there and shooting this dude's poor cows and stuffing them in dump trucks.. The guy's family has been there for like 150 years or something and they now say that there's some endangered turtle or something (it isn't endangered, in fact it is becoming a nuisance due to overpopulation in urban areas) when what they are really after is natural gas and water? It's criminal, but because the government/rich corporations are doing it, that makes it ok?

Owell, not like anything is going to get done about it, eventually the old dude is going to get pushed off or shot or something and it'll be old news in a few months.. sad. People need to send letters to senators that could get something done, I guess.. but it would be too late by the time they got around to reading it at this point, looks like

[LulzSect]

Native Americans were in these lands for hundreds of years. Things change. Pay your taxes like everyone else or get the fuck out. Typical inbred white man entitlement. Fuck outta here.

[radditsu]

Why are some of you so fast to resort to insults rather than having a respectful discussion in an OT thread? This isn't RnF, guys. How about a little maturity. Some of us are actually trying to follow this story and don't appreciate you coming here and basically taking a dump in a non-RnF thread..



Because they now try to hide their ignorant troll threads in the off topic forum. I must bring the troll threads into the light and hang them in the village square. All this shit should be moved to RNF where it can be torn apart as it deserves to be. So sayeth the Pootie. Amen

[Scrooge]

You do realize that entire article is nothing but copypasta from the Daily Mail, one of the worst pieces of Mainstream yellow press?

It's completely lacking depth

Does that make the article and the photos in it, any less real?

[radditsu]

Does that make the article and the photos in it, any less real?

Yellow means propoganda. Yellow journalism. Words mean things.

[Quineloe]

Does that make the article and the photos in it, any less real?

Of course not, and it shows clearly the government escalated the violence first, but that's the only thing we can actually take from there. The entire background of the story is basically untouched. I've read all kinds of numbers regarding the ranchers in the region. Some claim, thousands of ranchers are paying these fees np, others claim Bundy is actually the last rancher still in the area, there used to be 53 ranches, today just his remains. Which one is it?

If it's true the BLM made 98% of all Ranchers shut down their business, one has to wonder what the motivation behind that is - and don't tell me it's some stupid mojave desert tortoise, no one believes that.
However, if Bundy really is one out of hundreds and he's the only one not paying the fee while the others do and still make a profit (another claim I've read was that the fee ate up all his profits, that's why he stopped paying as well, also unverified) then it's really a completely different scenario.

As for the government violence, this really is nothing new. Standard operating procedure for LEOs these days is eliminate all resistance by any means necessary, then sort out the ashes. It really seems like they're bringing attack dogs they're barely controlling in on purpose to trigger a self-defense response from the enemy, and then take that self defense as a reason to go all out, just like a few weeks ago in breaking bad town when they executed the homeless guy.

[radditsu]

Even a Wesley Snipes has to pay taxes. Pay your taxes.

[Scrooge]

Of course not, and it shows clearly the government escalated the violence first, but that's the only thing we can actually take from there. The entire background of the story is basically untouched. I've read all kinds of numbers regarding the ranchers in the region. Some claim, thousands of ranchers are paying these fees np, others claim Bundy is actually the last rancher still in the area, there used to be 53 ranches, today just his remains. Which one is it?

If it's true the BLM made 98% of all Ranchers shut down their business, one has to wonder what the motivation behind that is - and don't tell me it's some stupid mojave desert tortoise, no one believes that.
However, if Bundy really is one out of hundreds and he's the only one not paying the fee while the others do and still make a profit (another claim I've read was that the fee ate up all his profits, that's why he stopped paying as well, also unverified) then it's really a completely different scenario.

I've read articles from other sources too, that Bundy actually is the last rancher in the area now, cause the Federal Land Grab is trying to clear everyone out. One of the reasons is, there's a major military installation in the area, and other reasons have something to do with China buying up land for God knows what. I can't say I fully understand the govt's motives, but the people are not in the wrong here, that much I do understand!

Here's another update: http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/04/13/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/ and another, from yesterday http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/04/12/sheriff-mack-cspoa-oathkeepers-state-legislators-america-stands-with-cliven-bundy/

[Ahldagor]

Because they now try to hide their ignorant troll threads in the off topic forum. I must bring the troll threads into the light and hang them in the village square. All this shit should be moved to RNF where it can be torn apart as it deserves to be. So sayeth the Pootie. Amen

[Sidelle]

Because they now try to hide their ignorant troll threads in the off topic forum. I must bring the troll threads into the light and hang them in the village square. All this shit should be moved to RNF where it can be torn apart as it deserves to be. So sayeth the Pootie. Amen

Pootie betta footy tai... bamma lammy..

[formallydickman]

Hah, I'm originally from around there. Bundys are self-entitled pricks 9 times out of 10, so I'm not surprised they are the ones not playing by the rules. Federal grazing laws are well below market-price, and here's a fun tid-bit-- Mormons surrendered the entire Utah territory (Nevada used to be part of that territory) way back in 1850 something after the federal government invaded and occupied. I love this stuff, sensationalism at its finest.

[BigHurb]

Hah, I'm originally from around there. Bundys are self-entitled pricks 9 times out of 10, so I'm not surprised they are the ones not playing by the rules. Federal grazing laws are well below market-price, and here's a fun tid-bit-- Mormons surrendered the entire Utah territory (Nevada used to be part of that territory) way back in 1850 something after the federal government invaded and occupied. I love this stuff, sensationalism at its finest.

anyone else care to revise their White-Knighting of the White Man on indian land? sounds like you all been duped like.. dupes

[radditsu]

Pootie betta footy tai... bamma lammy..

Bad bitty. So hard-a tar for you nowdiggy.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y587UlBV9jg

[Heywood]

Hah, I'm originally from around there. Bundys are self-entitled pricks 9 times out of 10, so I'm not surprised they are the ones not playing by the rules. Federal grazing laws are well below market-price, and here's a fun tid-bit-- Mormons surrendered the entire Utah territory (Nevada used to be part of that territory) way back in 1850 something after the federal government invaded and occupied. I love this stuff, sensationalism at its finest.

lol, I can't same I'm suprirsed. Now valarmangina can shut his trap since he doesn't understand how the world works.

[Trosh]

lol, I can't same I'm suprirsed. Now valarmangina can shut his trap since he doesn't understand how the world works.

I'm not sure spell check would help this post..

[Azure]

Bureau of Land Management (BLM), guided by corrupt Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), is doing anything possible to get some land including sending 200 FBI armed forces to a 67 year old man's family ranch to bully him out of the area.

Why?

The son of Senator Harry Reid, Rory Reid, is the primary representative for ENN Energy Group, a Chinese energy company seeking to build a $5 billion solar panel plant on a 9,000-acre Clark County desert plot in Laughlin, Nevada.

Freedom fighters, Armed militants are gathering at the ranch now to protect American rights.

obviously the mainstream media are saying shit like "cattle dispute" or "to protect the turtles" but all those plans for the land re-development are on BLM's website. But that's mainstream for u, they aren't allowed to report connections like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/nevada-rancher-threatens-range-war-feds/story?id=23225314

Thanks for spreading the info. I was curious what was really at the heart of the matter. Much appreciation for your research and links.

I would however like to add that most of the power players here see these ranchers as privileged and not in the right. Not many of us have or exercise these rights anymore or even have the capacity too. So the BLM and ecologists feel entitled to bending the letter of the law. And the family feels in the right completely because they are truly a bastion of what the founders originally intended.

The law enforcement and government agencies are more or less compelled to comply with their chain of command which is cow toeing to this special interest. Certainly not a good reason to confront the Bundies and stir the pot.

[LulzSect]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/sciam/cache/file/7D03B17B-9074-429E-80305389167BA5D4.jpg

[Rhambuk]

Because they now try to hide their ignorant troll threads in the off topic forum. I must bring the troll threads into the light and hang them in the village square. All this shit should be moved to RNF where it can be torn apart as it deserves to be. So sayeth the Pootie. Amen

Sa da tay my dami

[Azure]

I would like to further add that the Chinese putting solar power and protecting the tortises on the Bundy land is progress this country sorely needs.

Beef is a horribly in-efficient means of feeding people. It's no were near as healthy as what could be grown with the solar power.

And the Mormon god loves tortoises and is watching you Bundy's. Be kind to all of gods creatures.

[fishingme]

I really don't understand the whole pay to feed your cattle on public land. I mean, who else is going to mow it for free?

[moklianne]

anyone else care to revise their White-Knighting of the White Man on indian land? sounds like you all been duped like.. dupes

Yeah, just what I was going to say. Its criminal when it happens to the white-man, but no one cares (including the media) when it continuously happens to the native americans here.

[Peatree]

I think now would be a a great time for Chik-Fil-A to put a Eat-Mor-Chik-n bill board up right where all the action is.

[Scrooge]

I'm not sure spell check would help this post..

I can't same I'm suprirsed!

[BigHurb]

Ecologists do not feel entitled, they work very hard and have very special skills that help keep our planet from killing us faster!

raising meat for food is a waste of time and money. tell him to grow hemp and STFU

[Raavak]

Meat tastes good. Best protein source around.

[Glenzig]

Meat tastes good. Best protein source around.

Don't take this the wrong way, I love me some meat. Nothing like a nice juicy steak. But...no, unfortunately meat is not the best protein source around. In fact, the high protein numbers in most of the meats we eat are depleted by the fact that they aren't nearly as digest able as their plant counter parts.

[BigHurb]

hemp seeds contain all your essential amino acids as well as omega-3's so try again!

please put my pubical sack into your mouth and draw upon it succulently for 30 seconds

i said please

you have 24 hours to suck aforementioned balls

[Azure]

Whenever you involve governmental force to coerce another group of human beings. There is some level of entitlement. Legal or otherwise.

It's unfortunate that we as a species need to play this game. I am sick of affirming that we can't empower each other to do the right things regardless.

I respect ecologists. I also think they are being used here by other powers. And they are being played upon and manipulated.

Also, there is a value to social order vs ecology. And human life vs tortoise life that is being neglected.

----
I mean to further your thread of thought in this Hurb: Too bad the NATIVE peoples aren't legally entitled here. Or the tortoises.

It looks like this situation is going to boil down to might makes right. Rationality has long been thrown out the window over this and it is more political than logical.

---


you have 24 hours to suck aforementioned balls

We could arrange this but I can think of a more stimulating way to remove the protein from your glands than just sucking on epidermis around the gonads.

[BigHurb]

heheh i think Might Makes Right is what works, because that is our ultimate paradigm. We learn it from our parents who learned it from theirs.

When it comes down to it, who is bigger?

thats why there should be sufficient information for people to help decide whats the most fair... but people wont think into the future... the Navy SEAL who survives 25 years only to succumb to ALS... might does not Heal .... so do we want to heal or destroy!

TLDR KILL THE BUNDYS

[Azure]

When it comes down to it, who is bigger?

Mother nature is a bitch :p

[Raavak]

In fact, the high protein numbers in most of the meats we eat are depleted by the fact that they aren't nearly as digest able as their plant counter parts.Plant protein doesn't synthesize nearly as well as animal protein. That's why vegan bodybuilders are all skinny and weak as shit compared to red meat gobblers.

[Quineloe]

Beef is a horribly in-efficient means of feeding people. It's no were near as healthy as what could be grown with the solar power.


We have giant industrial complexes housing thousands of pigs and tens of thousands of chicken in tiny compartments who never see the sun in their life and get killed by automated machines with the female sows being shackled against the wall for their entire life so they don't crush their piglets in what some biologists believe is actually their instinct of mercy killing.

And the food for these complexes comes from south America, Paraguay and Brasil. Small farmers live there, then a corporation comes along and buys the land. The people who worked it don't know where to go, so they stay. Next step a death squad is sent out that murders someone, usually a small farmer unionist. Then a so called "It's done"- plane flies over, spraying herbicides and killing everything. Now the people have to flee, so the large equipment can be brought in to move all the poisoned land aside and on the fertile soil a dozen feet below the tainted one vast field as far as the eye can see are planted.

But hey, I guess some redneck having 900 cattle free range grazing is ruining the environment and he needs to be stopped.

[Quineloe]

Plant protein doesn't synthesize nearly as well as animal protein. That's why vegan bodybuilders are all skinny and weak as shit compared to red meat gobblers.

You should let Scooby know that, vegetarian youtube bodybuilder

http://yuliapal.net/english/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/afterburnerEffect640wtmk.jpg

[BigHurb]

eat fish you grow in the tank where you grow hydroponic plants.

problem solved also the phyto (*plant) proteins are quite adequate people do not know how to eat... maybe because they think they arent animals, i blame religion

[Raavak]

You should let Scooby know that, vegetarian youtube bodybuilderYes, Scooby is great, for a 60+ gay guy. But do you even know the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat eating bodybuilder? Do you know how radically different a vegan bodybuilder program is compared to a meat eater one? Or are you just spewing diarrhea? Protein synthesis is pretty well understood science. When a vegan guys can figure out a way to compete on stage regularly at the Mr Universe anymore maybe you can start talking. There's a reason they can't.

[moklianne]

, i blame religion

[Quineloe]

Yes, Scooby is great, for a 60+ gay guy. But do you even know the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat eating bodybuilder? Do you know how radically different a vegan bodybuilder program is compared to a meat eater one? Or are you just spewing diarrhea? Protein synthesis is pretty well understood science. When a vegan guys can figure out a way to compete on stage regularly at the Mr Universe anymore maybe you can start talking. There's a reason they can't.
you're confusing meat with steroids.

Mr Universe is all about looks, not about actual strength.

[Azure]

We have giant industrial complexes housing thousands of pigs and tens of thousands of chicken in tiny compartments who never see the sun in their life and get killed by automated machines with the female sows being shackled against the wall for their entire life so they don't crush their piglets in what some biologists believe is actually their instinct of mercy killing.

And the food for these complexes comes from south America, Paraguay and Brasil. Small farmers live there, then a corporation comes along and buys the land. The people who worked it don't know where to go, so they stay. Next step a death squad is sent out that murders someone, usually a small farmer unionist. Then a so called "It's done"- plane flies over, spraying herbicides and killing everything. Now the people have to flee, so the large equipment can be brought in to move all the poisoned land aside and on the fertile soil a dozen feet below the tainted one vast field as far as the eye can see are planted.

But hey, I guess some redneck having 900 cattle free range grazing is ruining the environment and he needs to be stopped.

Your conflating cowboy cattle grazing with starving Africans and industrialized food production and GMO liscencing.

The question is, is this family really entitled to fee free use of the land due to the law? Does does the states law override their original ownership? What is the history? Who really owns the land?

Meat has it's merits. But so do other sources of nutrition. People eat too many big macs. Chinese arent going to put in big farms with the solar power. People can do what they want with it. I would grow spirulina and chlorella with some fishies.

This isn't about a big bad government. It's about an uncompromising family who has had since 1993 to re-arrange their business.

Whole damn thing reminds me Skyrim and it's Jarls and Ulfric. Especially with the crazy mormon ties to the good o'le boy network.

[Quineloe]

I merely responded to your claim about meat being bad in general. You made a blanket statement, it's ok to backpeddle on it now.

Also, the meat from that cattle is NOT what you'll find on a Big Mac. Those are made from very poor quality meat from the industrialized processed food industry, contrary to what McDonalds keeps claiming.

The other 52 families in the county shut down their business. No one rearranged it, because the BLM dictates terms that can't be met while not starving. They're not asking for fee free use of the land, they just don't want to pay millions of dollars to a distant bureau that is actually trying to shut them down. That is not exactly unsurprising.

[Nuggie]

The perspective of a Nevadan for the last 25 years:

There are several points I would like to address. First and foremost is most public land in Nevada is managed by the BLM. State agencies have zero say over what happens on these lands. Most rural Nevadans are very pissed about this. This situation is one of many disputes between the public and the BLM. Look up the jarbridge shovel brigade incident. Or look at how the BLM is closing trails on public lands with zero regard to how they effect public uses of these lands.

Someone hinted about this earlier: those cattle grazing are removing fuel for wild fires. Wild fires in Nevada put out more pollution than humans. This problem has been getting worse the last 15 years as the BLM has been shutting cattle ranchers out of these lands. Through outright refusal of permits, raising permit rates to unaffordable levels, etc. These ranchers are doing a public service.

I don't know the Bundy's, but their way of life is a dieing breed. They are fighting for survival. Animals fighting for survival can get vicious. Anyone that feels they are backed into a corner is going to get desperate and violent

About the solar stuff. I am a big fan in where solar will take us. But the technology isn't there yet. The stuff is too expensive to produce atm, it doesn't last long enough, current power distribution systems are horribly inefficient making putting solar farms out in the middle of nowhere a less favorable place for them, the more they heat up from the sun the less they produce. Also, China subsidizing their solar businesses, illegally according to trade international trade treaties is making American solar firms unable to compete. I haven't checked in a few years but the Chinese were producing panels at half the cost Americans were partially because of the subsidies. Of course the cost of labor plays into it. When the technology for solar makes it a better option I'm all for putting an array on top of every home in America.

About the alternative to grass fed beef. This is something my wife pushes, it's possible that because cattle didn't evolve eating corn or other non grass feeds that it has unintended effects on their meet. Which translates into unintended consequences up the food chain, us. Science hasn't fully proven this yet however. But it's possible. Personally I don't care. Beef tastes good either way. So does fish. I don't know too much about which proteins are better.

As a few aside notes: bamzal, you're approach on this topic was very one sided which opened your argument up for the trolls. To the trolls, this isn't RnF. You deserve suspensions for some of your remarks.

Edit- I forgot to add the new director of the BLM is from rural Nevada. I believe he got the job a day or two after the BLM sent in the rangers to this area. I'd think he is to credit for the quick pull out of personnel.

[Bamz4l]

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/15/cliven-bundy-harry-reid-i-dont-think-theres-any-hope-him-he-needs-be-kicked-out-office

nice discussion with Bundy's. Lets disarm those park rangers carrying AR's!

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: This is a "FOX News Alert." The federal government has caved to public pressure in the battle against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy over cattle grazing rights. Now, in just a moment, Cliven, his two sons will join us for their first exclusive interview since the siege ended.

But first, the government surrendered this weekend after tensions escalated in the week-long standoff between Bundy family, supporters, and of course, federal agents. Now, the Bureau of Land Management released the 400 cattle that it seized from Bundy and removed its heavily-armed agents from the ranch.

Now, our producers were on the scene all weekend long as these very tense and sometimes confusing events were unfolding. Now, let's take you through this weekend with this exclusive "Hannity" video.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not give up our land! The government needs to go away!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government is taking our freedom, and we have to stand up and fight for it. I think that's what these good people are doing here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My family and the community has run these hills and enjoyed these hills for generations. Never once in the history of this nation have those mountains ever been restricted from us. And yet this week, they were.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning. Cliven, my purpose out here this morning is to continue, from my standpoint, to keep a very emotional issue safe. The BLM is going to cease this operation...

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and they will be removing their assets here in Clark County.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds to me like negotiation is going on. We're not ready to negotiate, are we?

(NO!)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what we the people are asking this morning. Disarm the Park Service.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your county bulldozers and loaders and tear (ph) down interest (ph) places. (INAUDIBLE) until that time, we're going to stand and be ready to fight!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they're going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free the people!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to come down here and at least let you know, hey, we're working on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as the sheriff was here, things got calm, and I feel a lot better. They are -- by the demands of the people, they will have the cattle to us.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have agreed to pull out. They're going to start loading (INAUDIBLE) immediately. (INAUDIBLE) no shots fired (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so emotional, I don't know if I can even talk at this point! We're so happy. I mean, this is what we wanted. It was one man standing, but now he has thousands on his side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so happy! I can open the gates! I can open the gates and let our babies out, our calves! They get to go back home! They get to go home to the river! They get to go (INAUDIBLE) to the ranch down the road! We're so excited!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the moms will be looking for...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The babies...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it's the most wonderful day in all the world!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: And tonight, Senator Harry Reid has responded, saying that, in fact, it is not over.

Back with us tonight, Nevadan rancher Cliven Bundy. We're also joined by his two sons, Ammon and Ryan. Guys, welcome back. Thanks for being here.

AMMON BUNDY, SON: Thank you.

RYAN BUNDY, SON: Thank you, Sean.

CLIVEN BUNDY: Thank you, Sean.

HANNITY: Cliven, let me -- first of all, on Friday, I was very, very concerned that this would end ugly. We heard the sheriff saying that the BLM, Bureau of Land Management, has ceased operations. You've gotten your cows back. Is that correct?

CLIVEN BUNDY: You know, I listened to that four minutes, and my hands are sweating and my tears are close to my eyes right now, Sean! But yes, my cows are back. Yes, my cows are back.

HANNITY: Well, let me ask you, because Harry Reid just spoke earlier tonight and he said that, well, it's not over. He said, quote, "We can't have American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over."

What is your response to Harry Reid?

CLIVEN BUNDY: I don't have a response for Harry Reid, but I have a response for every sheriff across the United States, every county sheriff across the United States. Disarm the federal bureaucrats. Take the federal United States bureaucrats' guns away. That's my message today.

HANNITY: You said that to the sheriff, Cliven. You said to disarm the Park Service, meaning the Bureau of Land Management. I mean, there were, what, 200 people surrounding your ranch and there were snipers and -- I mean, it was really a precarious situation there all weekend up until this got resolved, right?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Yes. And if the county sheriff had have taken away the weapons from the BLM, those pickets (ph) would not have to march before these guns. And that was -- that's a terrible thing to put American people in that situation, and -- but they did.

And we didn't have a county sheriff. We didn't have a state government. And we the people marched, and the BLM backed down. Now, they backed down -- let me tell you how they backed down. They backed down. They run. They got on the freeway and went to Mesquite and grabbed their stuff and moved out of the state. Now, the state -- towards the state of Utah. Utah County sheriff's finished this job that Gillespie didn't do, take the guns away from these federal bureaucrats.

HANNITY: Is your contention that this is state land and that they have no authority or business being there?

CLIVEN BUNDY: They have no authority.

HANNITY: All right, let me ask you about -- what happened to the county commissioner? You had a county commissioner in Clark County that literally called, after a commissioner in Utah said that ranchers were going to go out there in support and solidarity of you -- he called them inbreds and that they better hope they -- he hopes they have made their funeral plans. Whatever happened to him?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Well, you know, we had a mandate for the county commissioners. We said, Tear down those toll (ph) stations in these parts. We've already paid for these parts. Don't be charging us again. And we gave the county commissioners the charge to tear them down with your bulldozers.

HANNITY: Yes. Ammon, let me ask you...

CLIVEN BUNDY: I don't know that the...

HANNITY: Go ahead, sir. Finish your point.

CLIVEN BUNDY: Well, I haven't heard from the county commissioners, and the media hasn't reported back to me, so I don't know whether they got tore down or not.

HANNITY: Yes. Ammon, you're one of the people that actually got hurt in all of this in this confrontation, and we saw the dogs and we saw the tasers being fired and we saw women on the ground. You got hit with a taser, what, three times, Ammon?

AMMON BUNDY: Yes, three times.

HANNITY: Yes. How many other people were hurt in this?

AMMON BUNDY: Well, there was a few other casualties. But Sean, I'd do it again. And after it was all over, I couldn't have felt better.

HANNITY: What is your response to Harry Reid saying tonight that this is not over? It seems to me like he's making a threat that they're going to come for your dad.

AMMON BUNDY: Well, if he doesn't have enough moral fiber in his bones at all to see what happened, that we the people got together and made something right, then I don't think there's any hope for him and he needs to be kicked out of office, even if he is the Senate majority leader. It doesn't matter.

HANNITY: What is your position, Ryan?

RYAN BUNDY: Well, I think that's pretty easy. I think we the people have spoken, haven't we? (INAUDIBLE) one man's word. Doesn't matter what position he has. But people have spoken and said this is no longer going to take place. So we don't fear Harry Reid. The people are here to say we will have our freedom, and that's what's going to happen.

HANNITY: Yes. See, I think the...

RYAN BUNDY: The genie's out of the bottle. It's going to happen.

HANNITY: There's no doubt about it. From my perspective, as somebody that follows politics very, very closely, I think that they -- I think the politicians were watching this, Democrats in particular, and that they knew if something bad happened here, and they were the ones ratcheting this up - - I mean, we have rapist and murderers and bank robbers and pedophiles out there, and they've 200 agents, you know, surrounding your ranch because your cows are eating grass on land that they don't even want or need and that you're arguing isn't even theirs.

So they realized, I think, at some point, politically, that this was going to backfire on them. So I think this was done for political reasons. Cliven, do you see that?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Well, it's definitely done for political reasons. They wanted to show the American people in the world that they had unlimited power and they -- you know, they had taken over state sovereignty, our Nevada laws, our public lands.

HANNITY: All right...

CLIVEN BUNDY: You know, listen...

HANNITY: Yes?

CLIVEN BUNDY: Listen, do you think they really have taken it over? I don't think so. They might have took over our Clark County sheriff, but they never took over we the people, the sovereign people of this nation. We're standing and we're going to stand until we take the guns away from those bureaucracies, and then we'll start making America great one more time.

HANNITY: Did you lose many cows? I understand that some of your cows died.

CLIVEN BUNDY: I don't know how many, but some did die. We got about 27 calves that are without mothers, and they're little baby calves and we've been -- as ranchers, we've been trying to nurse those calves along for three days now, hoping to get -- keep them alive and hoping we can pair them back up with their mother.

[Bamz4l]

The perspective of a Nevadan for the last 25 years:

There are several points I would like to address. First and foremost is most public land in Nevada is managed by the BLM. State agencies have zero say over what happens on these lands. Most rural Nevadans are very pissed about this. This situation is one of many disputes between the public and the BLM. Look up the jarbridge shovel brigade incident. Or look at how the BLM is closing trails on public lands with zero regard to how they effect public uses of these lands.

Someone hinted about this earlier: those cattle grazing are removing fuel for wild fires. Wild fires in Nevada put out more pollution than humans. This problem has been getting worse the last 15 years as the BLM has been shutting cattle ranchers out of these lands. Through outright refusal of permits, raising permit rates to unaffordable levels, etc. These ranchers are doing a public service.

I don't know the Bundy's, but their way of life is a dieing breed. They are fighting for survival. Animals fighting for survival can get vicious. Anyone that feels they are backed into a corner is going to get desperate and violent

About the solar stuff. I am a big fan in where solar will take us. But the technology isn't there yet. The stuff is too expensive to produce atm, it doesn't last long enough, current power distribution systems are horribly inefficient making putting solar farms out in the middle of nowhere a less favorable place for them, the more they heat up from the sun the less they produce. Also, China subsidizing their solar businesses, illegally according to trade international trade treaties is making American solar firms unable to compete. I haven't checked in a few years but the Chinese were producing panels at half the cost Americans were partially because of the subsidies. Of course the cost of labor plays into it. When the technology for solar makes it a better option I'm all for putting an array on top of every home in America.

About the alternative to grass fed beef. This is something my wife pushes, it's possible that because cattle didn't evolve eating corn or other non grass feeds that it has unintended effects on their meet. Which translates into unintended consequences up the food chain, us. Science hasn't fully proven this yet however. But it's possible. Personally I don't care. Beef tastes good either way. So does fish. I don't know too much about which proteins are better.

As a few aside notes: bamzal, you're approach on this topic was very one sided which opened your argument up for the trolls. To the trolls, this isn't RnF. You deserve suspensions for some of your remarks.

Edit- I forgot to add the new director of the BLM is from rural Nevada. I believe he got the job a day or two after the BLM sent in the rangers to this area. I'd think he is to credit for the quick pull out of personnel.


This is P99 forums, no getting around the trolls. I like to discuss these types of issues - ones that mainstreams are not allowed to properly report on. And it's the least I can do to be pro-active. I'd rather have been down on the ranch this weekend but i'm too far away. The worst part to me is the ignorance in peoples replies, and realizing how little people would stand up for their own rights.

[Azure]

IDK ya'll can call me a troll but I found this thread insightful. Even if I played devils advocate. I don't think the government should be killing these ranchers over this.

TBH this is probably a good incident to point out how the 1st amendment is still working as intended. Even if your pro government on this issue. In fact it allowed people to stand up effectively to their government and no one got slaughtered (yet).

[Quineloe]

Hannity really can't go for more than 5 minutes without looking like a complete idiot.

[Glenzig]

Yes, Scooby is great, for a 60+ gay guy. But do you even know the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat eating bodybuilder? Do you know how radically different a vegan bodybuilder program is compared to a meat eater one? Or are you just spewing diarrhea? Protein synthesis is pretty well understood science. When a vegan guys can figure out a way to compete on stage regularly at the Mr Universe anymore maybe you can start talking. There's a reason they can't.

Steroids.

[baalzy]

Didn't want to read all the crap just wanted to say.

IT WAS NEVER HIS LAND TO BEGIN WITH.

[Quineloe]

define "begin".

[BigHurb]

when his govt stole it from the original "owners" by their own definitions

[Azure]

Currently land belongs to those with the power to hold it. Seems par for the course.

If you want land. Gain power.

Me personally IDGAF about land. Would rather be pretty :)

[BigHurb]

god aint makin no more real estate... its the best investment anyone can make

[Ahldagor]

god aint makin no more real estate... its the best investment anyone can make

few new islands coming in

http://www.livescience.com/31004-red-sea-volcanic-island.html

http://www.earthweek.com/2011/ew111118/ew111118d.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26941017

[Azure]

I want to live in orbit at ... like the lagrange and have robotic overlords mine the shit out of all the untapped real estate.

Plenty of energy in space. Just no industry to self sustain.

[Ahldagor]

the jetsons set up would be nice

[Scrooge]

Currently land belongs to those with the guns to hold it. Seems par for the course.

If you want land. Buy firepower!


Fixed.

[BigHurb]

^ i adhere to this principle... which is why im "nice" to people in the real world.

but i will kill them all.

[Ahldagor]

^ i adhere to this principle... which is why im "nice" to people in the real world.

but i will kill them all.

mein negger

[BigHurb]

Bureau of Land Management (BLM), guided by corrupt Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), is doing anything possible to get some land including sending 200 FBI armed forces to a 67 year old man's family ranch to bully him out of the area.

Why?

The son of Senator Harry Reid, Rory Reid, is the primary representative for ENN Energy Group, a Chinese energy company seeking to build a $5 billion solar panel plant on a 9,000-acre Clark County desert plot in Laughlin, Nevada.

Freedom fighters, Armed militants are gathering at the ranch now to protect American rights.

obviously the mainstream media are saying shit like "cattle dispute" or "to protect the turtles" but all those plans for the land re-development are on BLM's website. But that's mainstream for u, they aren't allowed to report connections like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/nevada-rancher-threatens-range-war-feds/story?id=23225314

Over the weekend, Bundy spoke to supporters about general issues involved in the standoff. Suddenly, he took a turn and began discoursing on African Americans and public welfare.
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said in comments quoted by the New York Times. He recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.”
He added: “And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”


http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-nevada-rancher-bundy-slaves-20140424,0,4670278.story#ixzz2zrduZxIt

[BigHurb]

He sounds like an educated gentlemen rancher obviously under tyrannical rule, no other explanation is possible. He must be totally right about his "rights" being so smart and all of us should hold him as a shining example of a patriot.

[BigHurb]

Hah, I'm originally from around there. Bundys are self-entitled pricks 9 times out of 10, so I'm not surprised they are the ones not playing by the rules. Federal grazing laws are well below market-price, and here's a fun tid-bit-- Mormons surrendered the entire Utah territory (Nevada used to be part of that territory) way back in 1850 something after the federal government invaded and occupied. I love this stuff, sensationalism at its finest.

only one person in this thread got it right

[Bardalicious]

Yes, Scooby is great, for a 60+ gay guy. But do you even know the difference between a vegan bodybuilder and a meat eating bodybuilder? Do you know how radically different a vegan bodybuilder program is compared to a meat eater one? Or are you just spewing diarrhea? Protein synthesis is pretty well understood science. When a vegan guys can figure out a way to compete on stage regularly at the Mr Universe anymore maybe you can start talking. There's a reason they can't.

Your argument for consuming meat-based proteins is that you won't be able to compete at Mr Universe without them? Did you keep a straight face as you typed that?

[Rararboker]

Scooby is a steroid user who can't even bench more than 100lbs, which he admitted himself. GTFO with your pussy vegan propaganda.

And a lot of people seemed to miss another detail in this debacle. Where they made a "first amendment/free speech zone" which basically insinuates that the rest of the country is not for that? It is pretty obvious, no matter how uneducated this guy is, that he is being wronged.

@bardalicious; his point seemed to revolve around the fact that meat has clear benefits otherwise the vegans would be on the same level. Are they? No. You can try to twist words however you want but it doesn't change the facts.

[Fame]

plebs talking about rule lul

[Quineloe]

Scooby is a steroid user who can't even bench more than 100lbs, which he admitted himself. GTFO with your pussy vegan propaganda.

And a lot of people seemed to miss another detail in this debacle. Where they made a "first amendment/free speech zone" which basically insinuates that the rest of the country is not for that? It is pretty obvious, no matter how uneducated this guy is, that he is being wronged.

@bardalicious; his point seemed to revolve around the fact that meat has clear benefits otherwise the vegans would be on the same level. Are they? No. You can try to twist words however you want but it doesn't change the facts.I'm basically untrained compared to others and I can bench more than 100lb. I'm calling BS.

[myriverse]

no its about standing up for your freedoms as an American citizen against your own tyrannical government.
Bundy isn't being free. He's trying to steal from the people. Roast his ass!

It's not his land. Never was. He's been told for years to get off of it.

[Orruar]

Bundy isn't being free. He's trying to steal from the people. Roast his ass!

It's not his land. Never was. He's been told for years to get off of it.

What is he stealing from "the people"? A bunch of grass that nobody else is using? Are you really hurt by his turf thievery? Are "the people" hurt by it?

[moklianne]

What is he stealing from "the people"? A bunch of grass that nobody else is using? Are you really hurt by his turf thievery? Are "the people" hurt by it?

Its public land. Just because the government didn't have a purpose for this land in the past and didn't care what he did with it doesn't mean he was legally using it. Now there is a purpose for the land that the government owns. I fail to see why people are not seeing this. This has nothing to do with freedom.

If I owned property and I didn't do anything with it, does that mean its okay for someone to let their cattle graze on it? Then, if I suddenly want to develop on that land, I can't because they are already grazing on it?

[moklianne]

Over the weekend, Bundy spoke to supporters about general issues involved in the standoff. Suddenly, he took a turn and began discoursing on African Americans and public welfare.
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said in comments quoted by the New York Times. He recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.”
He added: “And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”


http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-nevada-rancher-bundy-slaves-20140424,0,4670278.story#ixzz2zrduZxIt

I guess he doesn't realize the fact that his wealth was handed down to him from multiple generations. Wealth equates to freedom. If he actually created his wealth, I would have an inkling of respect for him. Actually, scratch that, I can't stand fuckers like this.

[Dac321]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SUt7Y7FSA

Real news.

[Bardalicious]

@bardalicious; his point seemed to revolve around the fact that meat has clear benefits otherwise the vegans would be on the same level. Are they? No. You can try to twist words however you want but it doesn't change the facts.

I didn't have to twist words, so I'm not sure what you're on about. You seem to be arguing the exact same thing, which is what my question pointed out in the first place.

Other than pure aesthetics, what purpose does bodybuilding serve in modern society? Could you enlighten me a little bit? Note that I'm not stating that physical fitness and staying in shape is a bad thing, but your argument for meat vs. plant is backed by a laughable practice.

[SamwiseRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SUt7Y7FSA

Real news.

good link

best part was sean hannity making glenn beck the voice of reason

[Nuggie]

So you know it's a logical fallacy to discredit his earlier stance based on his new statements on a completely different subject, right?

I'm going to go so far as to say that everyone is a product of their environment. Bundy is obviously an ignorant redneck based on his statement about African Americans and slavery.

This doesn't, however, make his stand or knowledge on cattle grazing rights any more or less than what it is.

[Tewaz]

Bundy and Reid vs. Ukraine and Putin.

GO!

[mgellan]

It's called expropriation, and is a right of every civilized government so one wingnut digging his heels in doesn't impede the ability of government to proceed with projects. Happens all the time in cities where old buildings are expropriated and demolished to make way for revitalized development.

The Constitution grants the rights of ranchers to make money by grazing cattle on land owned by the government? Wow.

Regards,
Mg

EDITA: Whoops LOL, right, he doesn't even own the land, so it's not even expropriation... sell him the land then expropriate

[Bamz4l]

The Constitution grants the rights of ranchers to make money by grazing cattle on land owned by the government? Wow
the constitution grants the federal government to owning land for stuff like forts, not for solar farms

[Raavak]

We need more power in the states, as was originally intended. The country is the united states afterall.

[Nuggie]

And on to other news, did you guys know harry Reid has a property outside a small town called lamoille, nv. He made an agreement with the rancher he bought the land from that the rancher could use reids lands for cattle grazing. In reids mind this qualified his property to receive smaller rancher tax rates.

Unfortunately, his property wasn't large enoigh to qualify. He didn't pay his full taxes on this property for years. Instead, he paid what he thought he owed and withheld the rest. When this hit the local newspapers he ran to the state to ask for special permissions so he wouldn't have to pay his full tax bill. Which was near a million.

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Ahldagor]

the constitution grants the federal government to owning land for stuff like forts, not for solar farms

where in the document?

And on to other news, did you guys know harry Reid has a property outside a small town called lamoille, nv. He made an agreement with the rancher he bought the land from that the rancher could use reids lands for cattle grazing. In reids mind this qualified his property to receive smaller rancher tax rates.

Unfortunately, his property wasn't large enoigh to qualify. He didn't pay his full taxes on this property for years. Instead, he paid what he thought he owed and withheld the rest. When this hit the local newspapers he ran to the state to ask for special permissions so he wouldn't have to pay his full tax bill. Which was near a million.

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

but because he doesn't recognize the federal gov having authority over him then he really doesn't need to pay it

[Bamz4l]

http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL34267_12032007.pdf

The Constitution (the true Supreme Law of the Land) declares that FedGov can ONLY "own" or control that ten mile square patch of dirt next the Potomac River, military bases and ports, and post office properties (and I suppose we could include the present Federal Highway system rights of way as "post roads" and allow them as well).

NOTHING FURTHER can be owned by FedGov. So WHY is some eighty percent of the State of Nevada "owned" illegally by FedGov? Some 70% of Utah? in total, about 55% of the twelve western states, including Alaska? WHY? IF the Constitution is enforced, FedGov MUST cede ALL non-military lands back to the states within whose borders those lands lie.

Bundy is correct: those lands belong to the State of Nevada, and to Clark County. THAT is why he wanted to pay the "grazing fees" to either of those entities. Why wart over "treaty rights" when FedGov is completely outside the bounds of the Constitution in "owning" those lands?




The Almighty US Congress has done this, and only Congress can undo it... Basically, Nevada ceded huge swaths of land to the Federal Government upon obtaining statehood. Not knowing of course what would happen less than 150 years later. After reading this I was sick to my stomach

[moklianne]

the constitution grants the federal government to owning land for stuff like forts, not for solar farms

Why not? They can drill for natural gas and oil on public land, what's the difference? The person in the white house sets the energy policy. Next time, it may be oil and gas instead of allowing wind farms and solar arrays.

[Orruar]

Its public land. Just because the government didn't have a purpose for this land in the past and didn't care what he did with it doesn't mean he was legally using it. Now there is a purpose for the land that the government owns. I fail to see why people are not seeing this. This has nothing to do with freedom.

If I owned property and I didn't do anything with it, does that mean its okay for someone to let their cattle graze on it? Then, if I suddenly want to develop on that land, I can't because they are already grazing on it?

If the government has use for the land, they can just use it? If they want to build a solar farm on it, just do it and throw a fence around it so the cattle can't poop on the reflectors or whatever? This isn't about land that they suddenly want to use for other things. It's about the government wanting to collect more money in any way they can. And has been pointed out, this land really should belong to the state of Nevada.

[moklianne]

http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL34267_12032007.pdf

Actually the highest court is the law of the land.

This looks a summary from someone else, this verbiage is not in that document. What I read is that there has been a constant battle back and fourth between the feds and the state.

This was one of the battles that was interesting:
"In 1978, the State of Nevada began its court challenge of the constitutionality of the federal land retention policy in § 102(a) of FLPMA. Nevada argued that the
federal government could only lawfully hold public lands in a temporary trust pending eventual disposal, and that retention of the lands violated the equal footing doctrine. The federal District Court for the District of Nevada dismissed the case for failure to identify a claim upon which relief could be granted. 49 The court found that any limitations on holding lands ceded by the original states did not apply to western lands acquired after the Constitution went into effect, and that the equal footing doctrine did not mean that the newer western states were entitled to the public lands."

[moklianne]

If the government has use for the land, they can just use it? If they want to build a solar farm on it, just do it and throw a fence around it so the cattle can't poop on the reflectors or whatever? This isn't about land that they suddenly want to use for other things. It's about the government wanting to collect more money in any way they can. And has been pointed out, this land really should belong to the state of Nevada.

Actually, it is about land. They specifically said, "They just want to be able to graze their cattle where their ancestors could." What they meant to say is for free. Others have said that these guys are assholes and after all of the recent racial slurs by them, I completely believe them. You know its bad when Hannity and the crazy right back away quickly.

[citizen1080]

They comparing this to Ruby Ridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge) or Waco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege)

Ruby Ridge is like 45mins from where I live

[BigHurb]

no one here has heard of the us forest service or national parks? lol

[myriverse]

the constitution grants the federal government to owning land for stuff like forts, not for solar farms
Wrong.

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2:
"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

That means the government can own any land for any purpose it deems worthy.

[BigHurb]

CAREFUL, you might wake the truthers

[BigHurb]

no its about standing up for your freedoms as an American citizen against your own tyrannical government.

"A Texas family whose home was within a two-mile radius of 22 natural gas wells — one of which was less than 800 feet away — has been awarded $2.9 million by a jury. The family, who suffered from a variety of ailments (including nosebleeds, rashes, migraines and more), was advised by a doctor to leave their ranch immediately and see a physician specializing in environmental health.

The defendant in the case, Aruba Petroleum, disagreed with the jury's decision, as did other attorneys who are familiar with the energy sector — calling in a 'knee-jerk' reaction. Additionally the company noted that they had complied with all applicable environmental regulations."


Still think govt is the tyrant? CORPS will kill you for a dollar and who will stop them? you? or we the people? duuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ie the govt you FUCKING MORONNNS

[Orruar]

Actually, it is about land. They specifically said, "They just want to be able to graze their cattle where their ancestors could." What they meant to say is for free. Others have said that these guys are assholes and after all of the recent racial slurs by them, I completely believe them. You know its bad when Hannity and the crazy right back away quickly.

But you said the government has a purpose for the land and that's why you think this action is justified. I'm just asking you what purpose the government has for the land and why they can't just use it? I haven't watched this closely since I don't give a shit about a farmer in Nevada, but the rumors I have heard involve a solar power station. So the question then becomes, if the government owns the land, and wants to put a solar power station there, why not just do it? As I understand it, we're talking about something like 1000 sq miles. I suspect they aren't going to fill more than 0.01% of that with whatever it is they are going to build.

The truth is, it's not about what the government wants to do with the land. It's about the government wanting to raise revenue from the land, which is land they don't really have much of a use for otherwise. I don't hold a strong opinion either way as to the validity of this, but don't pretend like this guy is keeping the government from using their own land.

[Nuggie]

Wth were the states rights people thinking when they let that slide in?

Edit - orruar, cattle are destructive animals. Solar arrays are fragile. Yes they could fence it off. cattle near where I work get through/ past the fences / gates uncommonly. Also, when it's a calf that gets past the fence and can't figure out how to get back they get panicky. And when it's a bull that gets past it can be a major hassle getting him where he doesn't want to go.

[Orruar]

I'm trying to picture a solar power array surrounded by a poorly constructed fence with cows just waiting to get in there to wreck shit. But I can't. Because I have a brain.

This is not about the government wanting to use 0.1% of the land and needing to keep the other 99.9% cow free in order to do so. It's all about the $$

[Nuggie]

I'm trying to picture a solar power array surrounded by a poorly constructed fence with cows just waiting to get in there to wreck shit. But I can't. Because I have a brain.

This is not about the government wanting to use 0.1% of the land and needing to keep the other 99.9% cow free in order to do so. It's all about the $$

Hey scarecrow, you didn't need to get defensive and be a dick. But since you did, and you don't appear to be familiar with cattle issues, since you have a brain:

http://www.fasttrackteaching.com/burns/Unit_2_Westward/Texas_barbed_wire_fence.JPG

This is the standard type of fence used with cattle. It it inexpensive, easy to install, easy to maintain. It also looks weak to the small cow brain. They tend to leave it alone. Except when they slip past it. When they are laying down and roll over( an uncommon occurrence, but it happens) they roll underneath. This is far more common in calves.

If you went with a more solid fence such as:
http://www.barbedwirefence.net/wp-content/gallery/wire-fence/galvanised_barbed_wire_mesh_fence.jpg

to a small cow brain it looks sturdy and they like to rub themselves on it. Because they have flea's and ticks and shit. And when you have a 2 ton cow rubbing up on your fence the fences don't last long.

Edit- got the pictures to work, hurray!

A side story: one night where I used to work some cattle got past a fence, actually they tore part of it down, but anyways... I had to get the cows back to the other side and fix the fence. My partner and I shooed 3 of the 4 back across fairly easy. But the fourth was being stubborn. Instead of running back through the fence it ran past the bad part, down the fence a hundred yards or so. We made a wide circle around it to the other side to work it back towards the bad part of the fence.

When we got about 20 yards from it, it squared up on us and started ripping it's feet in the dirt. And suddenly is dawned on me. This cow was a bull. Oh fuck. It made a few grunts. I happened to be carry a very bright flashlight at that point, but it was turned off. I turned it on and spooked that bull. It ran full speed at the fence and ran right through it. The fence was intact and the bull was on the other side. To this day I don't understand how that worked.

I stuck around for about a half hour listening to that bull howl. I like to think it took a barb to the nuts. The bastard.

Now you're probably thinking, "what kind of idiot mistakes a bull for a cow? Bulls have horns!" well, this breed of bull didn't have horns. And since it was like 2 am I wasn't checking these cows out for nut sacks in the dark.

[Ahldagor]

Wrong.

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2:
"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

That means the government can own any land for any purpose it deems worthy.

danke for the document itself.

everyone should read the constitution then every opinion handed down by the supreme court, and then an understanding of this country's history will occur

[citizen1080]

And since it was like 2 am I wasn't checking these cows out for nut sacks in the dark.

Lol'd

[Orruar]

I'm picturing the entire state of Texas as nothing but a wasteland of cow trampled skyscrapers. I think we have a Godzilla spinoff in the works here.

[Scrooge]

Here's some real truth, for those of you who still believe everything the Mainstream Media News channels tell you, are nothing but facts. Like how they portrayed Clive Bundy as a racist bigot, when in fact he's the complete opposite. Don't take my words for it, watch the unedited video and compare it to the MSM/NYT version, I've posted both links here:

Watch Bundy explain how we need to keep things from going backwards for blacks, and how the Federal government has created a neo-slave class via entitlement dependency that is so bad it is arguably worse than plantation slavery was. It is 100% clear that Cliven Bundy is not saying that blacks should be slaves picking cotton, but that the Federal government has created conditions for them so terrible, that their current situation may actually be worse. (If you are person of low intelligence, the fact that that is his point might be too hard for you to understand.) And he’s not blaming blacks for the issues of abortions, and crime and broken families, he’s blaming the Feds. This is the exact opposite of a racist, this is an advocate for the welfare and best interests of blacks. And just as importantly, you’ll at the end of the video he gives passionate praise and defense of hispanic illegal aliens, lauding them for “better family structures than most white peoples’” Racist? Why is he praising Mexicans as better than whites, if he’s some sort of white supremacist racist?

Cliven Bundy (Full) Controversial Remarks April 19, 2014 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI) - complete version, prior to being edited by the MSM/NYT

VIDEO: Cliven Bundy's Racist Remarks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY) - what they keep spinning on TV news chans

I'm not taking sides here, just exposing them liars, for who they really are!

[BigHurb]

umm... he says the exact same thing only worse .. lol?? this time you get to hear him say coloreds and mexicans a lot.

[nilzark]

thought this had something to do with ted bundy

Teddy was one crazy mufuka.

[Scrooge]

umm... he says the exact same thing only worse .. lol?? this time you get to hear him say coloreds and mexicans a lot.

Maybe you should actually listen to the words he uses to describe them as "people" and "brothers," as opposed to actual racial slurs he would have used, if he really was a racist.

[BigHurb]

anyone who says they "know something about the negro" is a racist.

my great grandmother said oriental and colored. and she was really nice. she was also italian and racist but still nice.

my grand parents call mlk day american ****** day. they are also fairly nice and harmless.

no offense ... but he's an old racist piece of shit, the very definition of racist by the way he generalizes

[Ahldagor]

anyone who says they "know something about the negro" is a racist.

my great grandmother said oriental and colored. and she was really nice. she was also italian and racist but still nice.

my grand parents call mlk day american ****** day. they are also fairly nice and harmless.

no offense ... but he's an old racist piece of shit, the very definition of racist by the way he generalizes

also a cheapskate. jefferson's dream died when the industrial revolution happened.

[BigHurb]

we're all stuck trying to match old standards that dont apply i suppose

the problems have nothing to do with race though, as genetically people are nearly completely the same.. it has to do with economics and .. ta dah.. GREED and FEAR

like this greedy 'ol rancher trying to make everyone fear something and people bandwagoning left and right.

[Azure]

Green Dog, this is Pyramid. Come in, over.

[Nuggie]

The way I see it there are two types of racists. The benign kind like bighurb's ancestors. And the malignant kind like the KKK group type.

The first I couldn't care less about. Free speech and all. If someone's upbringing has made them ignorant and they haven't put forth the effort to overcome it, meh. Couldn't care less. Ignorant is ignorant.

The second type that like to burn shit and hurt people that aren't currently hurting them... well... to hell with them.

[Orruar]

So I was out golfing today and noticed that running down the #12 fairway, there was a fence and on the other side were a few cattle. I ran for my life as the cattle broke through the fence and promptly destroyed the golf course before beginning their rampage of the nearby subdivision. I was speeding away in my car when in my rear view mirror, all I saw was the smoldering remains of what once was a quiet retirement community. I will never again question whether man can build fences capable of controlling cattle. He surely cannot. This planet is not ours. We are but insects whose inconsequential lives are only permitted for a short time by our bovine overlords. This is the planet of the cow.

[Nuggie]

Okay Orr. You're right. Never in the history of mankind has a cow ever escaped a fence. You're right. I'm wrong. You win this round of forumquest.

:rolleyes:

[BigHurb]

never has a white man stolen land

[Orruar]

Okay Orr. You're right. Never in the history of mankind has a cow ever escaped a fence. You're right. I'm wrong. You win this round of forumquest.

:rolleyes:

If the threat of a cow breaking through a fence prevented construction projects from moving forward, the state of Texas would have a population of 35.

[Orruar]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/53749000/jpg/_53749336_wns_cow_rampage_02.jpg

How is there a single house left standing?! Oh the humanity.