Why cant TD Spirocs be considered one camp?

[Houndstooth316]

Why cant the spiroc fort be considered a single camp? If a group is there killing all of the mobs easily and leaving nothing up why is this not considered a camp?

[jaybone]

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003710289/4355932410_why_just_why_thumb_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

[SamwiseRed]

good practice for raiding on blue. gotta be quick for that fte.

[justin2090]

Because its outdoors and no named mobs.

[Goobles]

Could solve this problem by rerolling Red...

[Swish]

Blue has become seriously overcamped, a lot of mad people around these days.

Turned up at the SK aviak fort around 10am EST yesterday and there was nobody there, 2 hours later and there were 4 people soloing, jimmies were rustled when I pulled a mob that someone else wanted.

Blue solution: Get mad, maybe start a thread on the forums (see OP).

Red solution: Claim the camp for yourself, send the others packing.

[Brut]

Red solution: Claim the camp for yourself, no one else in zone all day.

[Xer0]

Could solve this problem by rerolling Red...

lolololol
this guy

[Xer0]

Blue has become seriously overcamped, a lot of mad people around these days.

Turned up at the SK aviak fort around 10am EST yesterday and there was nobody there, 2 hours later and there were 4 people soloing, jimmies were rustled when I pulled a mob that someone else wanted.

Blue solution: Get mad, maybe start a thread on the forums (see OP).

Red solution: Claim the camp for yourself, send the others packing.

so 1000 people peak is too much for classic eq? I'm calling shenanigans

[snoopiku]

1,000 people isn't too much, but it makes all the "popular" leveling places packed at times. I know what Swish is talking about as I went to SK aviaks to farm on my 25 monk recently and the competition for mobs was insane. I was there to make a bit of coin from the gems they drop, which was nice as I got a couple black pearls, emeralds, and peridots. However, I bailed shortly after and went back to farming explorers in LOIO, which are mostly LB at this point, and only rarely drop ringmail, but its consistant, its easy, and I can solo at my pace without fighting for every DB mob that pops.

That being said, I am very happy with the server population and hope it grows in the future. As I mentioned, the popular leveling spots are sometimes overcamped, but then it forces people to explore areas, making groups for places like the froglok city in SoNH and Dalnir viable options.

[Swish]

so 1200 people peak is too much for classic eq? I'm calling shenanigans

Been on that well trodden path lately?

Kurns > Unrest > MM > Lower Guk/CoM > KC > Seb

Camped to fuck, server thriving... but sometimes its good to get some XP rather than sitting around waiting for a group or competing with other pullers for mobs as they repop ;)

[Raavak]

There are other places to level. Tons of empty zones. Yes, less than optimal, but do you want steady exp or rather compete over every pop?

[Swish]

There are other places to level. Tons of empty zones. Yes, less than optimal, but do you want steady exp or rather compete over every pop?

Not so easy to make a group and get them to follow you to Nurga though is it?...and hope that they'll stay a couple of hours at least.

The two points I was trying to make:-

1. People won't play on a "dead" server because they want to group. Yet I see 4-5 people that could group soloing in SK at the aviak village yesterday, and similar signs of solo monks in Mistmoore, people soloing in Unrest, CoM, etc etc.

2. Competing for every pop in those zones is just a timesink, and without a regular group of pals to XP with you're forced to follow the herd, or solo (although good luck in the 50+ solo spots, camped!)

[Swish]

Also, people are all about saying the red community keeps them away from playing etc.

I charmed a skeleton in KC last week, gave it a mandolin (I stay classy, no shitty torches). Run up to hands with my group that had just formed.

Some iksar monk (Sagisaurus) comes running in claiming I took his named mob (skeletal guardian isn't a named mob). Telling me to break the charm so he could pull it to his group, getting mad etc. I had to explain to him it wasn't a named mob and the mandolin was put on a pet that I'd charmed from the moat. He was simmering, but left.

TL;DR: Toxic players on both servers, its the internet... assholes sometimes play video games and elf sims.

[Daldaen]

There are other places to level. Tons of empty zones. Yes, less than optimal, but do you want steady exp or rather compete over every pop?

I think they want to get optimal EXP without having to compete once they stake claim to the camp. Atleast that's what I gathered from this thread...

I dunno, I feel like it should be a camp just like Aviaks in South Karana are a camp if you can keep them all down... The statics not the roamers.

Then again, I don't have much experience with these spirocs. Are they mostly static spawns with a few roamers or do they roam all over the place?

[Swish]

I think they want to get optimal EXP without having to compete once they stake claim to the camp. Atleast that's what I gathered from this thread...

I dunno, I feel like it should be a camp just like Aviaks in South Karana are a camp if you can keep them all down... The statics not the roamers.

Then again, I don't have much experience with these spirocs. Are they mostly static spawns with a few roamers or do they roam all over the place?

There's a bunch in the tree city, with probably another 7-8 pathing around underneath, and a few towers with one in dotted around.

Trying to call it as a camp is a douchey move really, I duo'ed there with an enchanter on my cleric and we did a good job keeping most of the spawns down... but if a druid turned up and started to quad kite, what were we going to do? Try and say "hey dude, we're xp'ing here...piss off" ?

[Daldaen]

There's a bunch in the tree city, with probably another 7-8 pathing around underneath, and a few towers with one in dotted around.

Trying to call it as a camp is a douchey move really, I duo'ed there with an enchanter on my cleric and we did a good job keeping most of the spawns down... but if a druid turned up and started to quad kite, what were we going to do? Try and say "hey dude, we're xp'ing here...piss off" ?

I dunno... People are saying that exact quote when someone is already killing spore king or crypt. (Save me the red quote on this topic.) That's just how most things in life work. You share and sometimes have to wait your turn. There is a reason they try to teach sharing and waiting your turn to kids early on in school. It's important to behaving in a normal society.

It's how camps work. Now some things are uncampable due to random spawn location and roaming mobs. Other things, namely dungeons, are camp able since most things are static and the roamers have specific pathing. That Spiroc camp sounds like a hybrid of the two. I dunno whether that is really camp able though. Maybe the roaming mobs are FFA and the static spawns are a camp.

Really though, people just need to play nice and realize people are clearing most mobs before you show up, you should just come back later.

[fran]

over crownded camps are a classic too lol

[Trosh]

Why cant the spiroc fort be considered a single camp? If a group is there killing all of the mobs easily and leaving nothing up why is this not considered a camp?

Officially Proj. 1999 follows the Play Nice Policy

Paraphrased here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1002
Full rules at #2 here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299

It states that there is no strict definition of a "camp" however they then go ahead and define it in several ways. Firstly if it is "uncontested" then you can do whatever you want, if it then becomes "contested" you must maintain a physical presence at or near the contested spawn. Basically it boils down to the fact that you can claim a small room or a single spawn location, but something as large as an entire village or fort could not be considered a "camp".

Following the Play Nice Policy, if you have a dispute over spawn locations you are required to compromise (compromise doesn't mean take it all and fuck those other guys) or if no compromise can be reached, you must petition for arbitration. Once the p99 staff has arbitrated, the decision is taken out of your hands and you must follow what the arbitrator has said.

To wrap it all up, no, you can't call an entire fort a camp, in fact technically a camp can only be 1-5 mobs or so simply because if it is contested you need to be able to sit next to the one you want. Be nice and share the fort, dude.

[Orruar]

Now some things are uncampable due to random spawn location and roaming mobs.

No such thing. The roamers in outdoor zones have set spawn locations and set paths they follow, just like indoor zones.

[Orruar]

btw, what group wants to kill spirocs? There are literally a dozen better places to go with a group at that level. Grouping spirocs is for the birds.

[Swish]

True, overcrowded is classic... and leveling is always a timesink. Sometimes its refreshing though, particularly on a Sunday, to go somewhere where you can enjoy an empty zone or two. For me that's red, for you guys... I dunno, wherever is quiet :p

[Uteunayr]

You know, all things considered, camps are not a classic thing. Heck, they are not even a modern thing. SoE has never respected the idea of "camps". The one thing they did respect was FTE on mobs in an area. However, we have a server where camps are respected, and we should first off be happy for that fact.

Looking at the play-nice policy thread (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299) it reads:

"In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it."

First, you must show capacity to hold down all mobs at the claimed camp with the force you or your group has. If you do not have the capacity, you cannot claim camp. Secondly, and more importantly, if you do not have presence at the spawning point of the mobs in the camp, you cannot claim it as a camp.

So spirocs in TD, even if you could hold down a large number of them, you need to hold down all of them. Further, you need to have presence at the spawn point of every single spawn. Now, I don't know to what extent they care about presence, but what I do know is that it can be as little as Bards to Nobles in HHK. If you're camping Nobles, and killing Bards, and someone comes along to take one of those camps, you cannot hold presence at both of them, even though they are less than 100 loc units away from one another, just in different rooms.

If you were to start claiming a camp on Spirocs, others would claim Camps on other spirocs, since you must maintain very close presence to the spawn location when others dispute a camp. And eventually, Spirocs would be broken down into... what... 12 camps?

Honestly, adventure to other places. Seek out new camp locations, new neat areas. Play during off hours when you can. You don't need to go to the place with the best experience to play EverQuest. This game is, more than anything, about the journey to 60. Why rush it?

[moklianne]

I remember rarely having an issue on live and I used to quad kite with my Druid there. This was, of course when Luclin was live and we had Velious and Luclin zones above what we have now.

If population doesn't increase much more, I would say Velious will help tremendously when its released.

If population continues to increase though, the speed at which new content is released will not sustain the population even if custom content is released (ie, newer expansions that have been altered) and a server split may be needed at some point.

[Swish]

The overarching rule on the PNP can be worded as "don't be a dick".

Trying to claim a full fort of spirocs and the ones that path in the fort area as "mine", is being a dick. Share or move on to an alternative area :p

[Trosh]

The overarching rule on the PNP can be worded as "don't be a dick".

Trying to claim a full fort of spirocs and the ones that path in the fort area as "mine", is being a dick. Share or move on to an alternative area :p

I wish this worked for everything else, too..

Almost all religion's rules (and most nation's) could be paraphrased into 2:
"Don't be a dick"
"Don't steal stuff (especially someone's life)"

Too bad ppl can't follow the rules in real life, if not while being fantasy super heroes

[Laugher]

as a druid who quadded there for months on and off I would say the worst thing to happen there personally (when I wasn't there alone or with one other druid soloing) was a wizard and bard that would pull the entire camp and kite them. I had seen a druid who tried to do the same thing using a lumi staff and clickies but dude usually died quick.

While it is a good leveling spot if your group is 48+ and geared the camp could be wiped clean in minutes, tbh I think this is the first time I've heard of more than 3 people grouped here because, well, there are many other camps with a lot more mobs to chooise from(and presumably lotsa pop now)

Raptors can always be claimed as a camp, and would probably be better xp per kill 50+ :)

[Rkelly]

I wish this worked for everything else, too..

Almost all religion's rules (and most nation's) could be paraphrased into 2:
"Don't be a dick"
"Don't steal stuff (especially someone's life)"

Too bad ppl can't follow the rules in real life, if not while being fantasy super heroes

It'd be cool if you could steal someone's life

[moklianne]

as a druid who quadded there for months on and off I would say the worst thing to happen there personally (when I wasn't there alone or with one other druid soloing) was a wizard and bard that would pull the entire camp and kite them. I had seen a druid who tried to do the same thing using a lumi staff and clickies but dude usually died quick.

While it is a good leveling spot if your group is 48+ and geared the camp could be wiped clean in minutes, tbh I think this is the first time I've heard of more than 3 people grouped here because, well, there are many other camps with a lot more mobs to chooise from(and presumably lotsa pop now)

Raptors can always be claimed as a camp, and would probably be better xp per kill 50+ :)

Bards are the real issue. I see it too often in SK at the aviak village. One Bard pulling all of the mobs. Throw in the occasional PLers and lately its pointless to try to exp there during primetime.

[BigHurb]

omg you greedy mother fucker

[Raavak]

Raptors can always be claimed as a camp, and would probably be better xp per kill 50+ :)Still not officially a camp, but being adults the players of the server have worked it out so people call what they are killing and respect it. If you are asking for the same thing with spirocs with the initial post, I guess we will see how it works out. I am guessing after years of precedent of it basically being a fte camp that is how it will remain until Velious opens.

[moklianne]

The overarching rule on the PNP can be worded as "don't be a dick".

Trying to claim a full fort of spirocs and the ones that path in the fort area as "mine", is being a dick. Share or move on to an alternative area :p

Too bad it only takes a couple with bad manners to destroy an entire area for everyone else. Alas, it doesn't seem too frowned upon in our society, so it translates into the game.

[Pinolian]

Lots of greedy jerks out there
Too bad we dont have a server rule.. something simple like "Dont be a douche" Then we define what a douche is ;)
Yeah rules suck, over legislation sucks.
We have rules because people suck without rules.

[jaybone]

What a greedy piece of shit.

[Champion_Standing]

Blue is not overpopulated, live servers had 1.5-2x the amount of people at peak times. But it is overpopulated with soloing twinks and PLers.

[jaybone]

lol OP dissapears, probably immersed in his 16 hour eq session

[Cecily]

This game is, more than anything, about the journey to 60. Why rush it?

[Daldaen]

The game begins for some at 60 too.

[Erati]

You know what grinds my gears !!!!

2011 Wizards thinking they can Quad raptors from the big isle back when druids could still charm the raptors!

HELLO, druids can clear out the entire isle with ease and you want to take 4 of them from me !?!?

Go pull 4 from that smaller isle to the south and leave the big isle for who is was created: druids :)






note: now that druids can no longer charm raptors we have turned into those wizards we used to despise showing up at the big isle :( curses !

[Glenzig]

The game begins for some at 60 too.

Wrong. The game begins at the character create screen.

[BigHurb]

Wrong. It ends there.

[moklianne]

Blue is not overpopulated, live servers had 1.5-2x the amount of people at peak times. But it is overpopulated with soloing twinks and PLers.

Because of the much slower content release schedule, people are bored.

[lecompte]

over crownded camps are a classic too lol

You guys are all talking about over crowded camps and crap... I dunno what game you're playing but the classic experience WAS you got what you got. Remember when every gobby room in HHK was a camp AND you would have to wait in line to get into a full group killing 8 mobs? I solo'd my magician all the way up to 50 and I would find some obscure crap to kill because that is the way you had to do it.

Nice thing about solo-ing twinks is they leave if there aren't enough kills. Crowd them out.

[Daldaen]

Wrong. It ends there.

To each their own.

But grinding through Karnors on another 50 isn't all that entertaining.

Trioing Ragefire on 3 60's on the other hand... Can be entertaining.

[Hollywood]

The real problem here is that there's not much left for out door xp post 50(not sure if you want to consider Skyfire a viable option..)

Velious somewhat alleviates the issue, but not by much.

[BigHurb]

trioing ragefire wouldve been cool on live, if encounters get you off go play WoW

[Daldaen]

Skyfire would be awesome if Chromodracs would disappear. But mass dispelling mobs are absolutely retarded in all types of content.

And WoW is too easy. Encounter on EQ were boss until they started catering to the lowest common denominator and tuned shit so any group of 54 face rollers could beat it.

[indiscriminate_hater]

The real problem here is that there's not much left for out door xp post 50(not sure if you want to consider Skyfire a viable option..)

Velious somewhat alleviates the issue, but not by much.

Burning woods always empty, can get ya to 60 no problem. Soloing, quadding, grouping

[Hollywood]

Burning woods always empty, can get ya to 60 no problem. Soloing, quadding, grouping

BW is just a baby version of Skyfire, high MR high HP mobs that link too often and are a train wreck of pathers waiting to happen.

An option I suppose, just not a good one.

[Rhambuk]

You guys are all talking about over crowded camps and crap... I dunno what game you're playing but the classic experience WAS you got what you got. Remember when every gobby room in HHK was a camp AND you would have to wait in line to get into a full group killing 8 mobs? I solo'd my magician all the way up to 50 and I would find some obscure crap to kill because that is the way you had to do it.

Nice thing about solo-ing twinks is they leave if their aren't enough kills. Crowd them out.

ahh good times, I remember hhk gobs before 4 camps. I remember running through north freeport and seeing a de caster at the end of each alley soloing a single guard.

those were great times, when you could run through ANY city and there were always people there. Tradeskilling, duelling in arenas, shooting the shit, and even rping.

ahh the days.

[Shamalam]

Holy shit, folks. Houndstooth asked one simple question about the server rules, and now he's a "greedy piece of shit?" Get over yourselves. We were clearing the entire island with three people and he just wanted to know how the PNP would apply if anyone else showed up and started killing "our" merbs. Seems like a pretty harmless question to me. By all means, though, keep getting those jimmies rustled whenever he shows up in a thread.

[Swish]

<Harmony>

...also sorry to hear the answer wasn't what you wanted. Camps always an interesting topic with conflicting views.

[Vandlaetari]

Also, people are all about saying the red community keeps them away from playing etc.

I charmed a skeleton in KC last week, gave it a mandolin (I stay classy, no shitty torches). Run up to hands with my group that had just formed.

Some iksar monk (Sagisaurus) comes running in claiming I took his named mob (skeletal guardian isn't a named mob). Telling me to break the charm so he could pull it to his group, getting mad etc. I had to explain to him it wasn't a named mob and the mandolin was put on a pet that I'd charmed from the moat. He was simmering, but left.

TL;DR: Toxic players on both servers, its the internet... assholes sometimes play video games and elf sims.
__________________

I'm just new to the zone and thought i had pulled that one, not having seen a mandolin on a mob yet I was quite curious. Once you explained it was a pet I left and apologized. Definitely not simmering =)

[mnemonikos82]

One thing that happened to me that I wouldn't mind a second opinion on: I was running from ent to CE in MM and a gargoyle agro'd on to me. I didn't even see it till it started hitting me. Once it started attacking me I stopped and killed it and got petitioned by a dbag at pond (not a dbag for petitioning, but definitely a dbag for petitioning without even trying to find out what happened from me, I didn't even get a tell).

So with the PNP, there was no one there physically at the spawn point. Was I in the wrong for stopping to kill the mob that was attacking me? GM never gave a verdict because the other guy logged after petitioning me and then KSing me on a mob in the canyon.

[Orruar]

Encounter on EQ were boss until they started catering to the lowest common denominator and tuned shit so any group of 54 face rollers could beat it.

When was that? Encounters seemed to get more difficult as time went on, but granted I stopped playing live in 2007.

[LulzSect]

Blue World Problems

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/37810584.jpg

[BigHurb]

you can camp a single spawn in this game thats why its retarded on blue

[Shamalam]

Was I in the wrong for stopping to kill the mob that was attacking me? GM never gave a verdict because the other guy logged after petitioning me and then KSing me on a mob in the canyon.

GMs are only supposed to intervene if the players can't come to an agreement among themselves. The dude was absolutely in the wrong for not taking it up with you first, especially if it was just one mob. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

[Houndstooth316]

trioing the whole spiroc fort = plenty better exp than a full group chain pulling KC hands

thats why im asking. i dont blame anyone for hunting there because thats how the camp is accepted as a ffa. im just asking why you cant claim it

[Tasslehofp99]

trioing the whole spiroc fort = plenty better exp than a full group chain pulling KC hands


The reason for this is because Spirocs are for 45-53, Karnors has mobs that stay blue to much higher levels. So when you go to KC to group at sub-50 levels, chances are you're splitting exp with others who are a lot higher level (therefore have higher exp totals than you, and take more exp) so the exp seems slower. If you're 45-53, there are tons of better places to exp at (If you're not soloing) than KC/TD/LOIO bloodgills.

In fact I would suggest that by limiting yourself to KC/TD, you're slowing down your progress. Sure they're easy camps and not that risky, but they're nowhere near the best exp you can get. This is especially true once you go from soloing there to duo/trio, etc. It's not a group camp, its really that simple.

If you're getting better exp in TD than the places you normally exp, well then you're exping in the wrong spots.

Lguk Liveside is insane exp 40-50, probably some of the best. Same goes for solb, the hole, and City of Mist (Up to about 53-55, if you know the spots to hit) as well as some others I'm surely forgetting.


I have a buddy who leveled his mage from 29-53 in 2 days, pretty much without leaving guk/lguk aside from getting spells/supplies. 54-60 is where it kind of slows down, and soloing really becomes less viable.

[Houndstooth316]

jesus christ im not saying the only spot i do is KC or TD. just explaining its good exp, its a small area, and im in a group holding down every single spawn almsot instantly. no downtime,.

[Hailto]

Red solution: Claim the camp for yourself, no one else in zone all day.

QFT

[Tasslehofp99]

jesus christ im not saying the only spot i do is KC or TD. just explaining its good exp, its a small area, and im in a group holding down every single spawn almsot instantly. no downtime,.

Yeah I know, I'm just saying there ARE places where you can do this for better exp while not worrying about people taking your mobs or whatever.

The people who are out in TD soloing or whatever do so because literally there is very little other option for them to get exp 45-53. Think about it, how many groups are going to invite a wizard/druid/necro at 45-53?


If you're in a small group, or partnering with someone, there are tons of better places to exp. Am I saying you have no right to group/partner/trio/whatever at TD spirocs? No.

I'm just saying there are better places to do it, and you won't be getting in the way of people who can't go do it at these better places at their current level/current situation.


I could understand folks being frustrated with a bard coming along and pulling the entire house though, because that's just obnoxious.

[Buellen]

So

A couple night ago i was running through east karana when i see in ooc "Reaver HIll Camped" and i had to chuckle. was a single toon trying to claim all the hill.

It 7min spawn timer and i believe 15 gnoll reaver plus a few wanders spawn their.

When I use to level my toons in EK i always shared the hill with a few others soloers or duoed. Their is plenty of gnolls to share <shrug>


Thought i share

[Messianic]

For the last freaking time, contesting a camp via PvP is not a solution to multiple people wanting a camp. It only means the stronger person/group gets the camp, which isn't always you.

[jaybone]

ahh good times, I remember hhk gobs before 4 camps. I remember running through north freeport and seeing a de caster at the end of each alley soloing a single guard.

those were great times, when you could run through ANY city and there were always people there. Tradeskilling, duelling in arenas, shooting the shit, and even rping.

ahh the days.

Can you imagine the outrage if someone tried that on this server? Self entitled jackasses such as Houndstooth would shit their pants.

[Hollywood]

;;;

I charmed a skeleton in KC last week, gave it a mandolin (I stay classy, no shitty torches). Run up to hands with my group that had just formed.

Some iksar monk (Sagisaurus) comes running in claiming I took his named mob (skeletal guardian isn't a named mob). Telling me to break the charm so he could pull it to his group, getting mad etc. I had to explain to him it wasn't a named mob and the mandolin was put on a pet that I'd charmed from the moat. He was simmering, but left.
;;;

That's not RED toxic, that's just ignorance and poor attitude - another fine example from Illuminati.


And how did this conversation end up here?

[Iandyan]

For the last freaking time, contesting a camp via PvP is not a solution to multiple people wanting a camp. It only means the stronger person/group gets the camp, which isn't always you.

You win some and lose some but at least you can take a shot at someone if they are being a dick about spawns. I would say that you win some or lose some on blue as well but you win or lose by staff determination If red had 1200 people playing then it might suck not to have an open camp to go to if you got pushed off the spawn. Right now you can easily loot and scoot to another spot.

Also, If someone else actually shows in zone there is more desire to duo/trio with them instead of fighting for a soloing spot.

[loramin]

Got a problem with a camp? Play on red ...

.. now you have two problems.

[myriverse]

Got a problem with a camp? Play on red ...

.. now you have two problems.
LOL

[Masq]

Blue solution: Get mad, maybe start a thread on the forums (see OP).

Red solution: Claim the camp for yourself,realize you have no one else to play with, and create mass posts on forums trying to recruit for dead server.


fix for u ;)

[kylok]

I have a buddy who leveled his mage from 29-53 in 2 days, pretty much without leaving guk/lguk aside from getting spells/supplies. 54-60 is where it kind of slows down, and soloing really becomes less viable.

Tell your buddy to seek help.

[Tasslehofp99]

Tell your buddy to seek help.

I should've mentioned that it was 2 days /played, not two consecutive days straight of grinding lol.