Blue vs. Red

[Goobles]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/procon_zps9f15ad2b.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/RiddlN/media/procon_zps9f15ad2b.jpg.html)

[mtb tripper]

Goobles saving the server one post at a time.

[Reguiy]

Red: Be forced to partake in pvp in what is probably the worst pvp mmo of all time.
Blue: Play a game that was designed for pve.

[Cymeon]

BLUE TO RED---MACHINE HEAD



i know, its green but whatevs

[Lojik]

Your first 50 recruitment threads didn't really do it for me, but now I'm convinced!

[Kekephee]

You need to change "Not as many groups" to "if you're not playing a solo class you literally cannot level" and add something in there about how awesome it is to JOUST for an hour

[Biaxil]

Your first 50 recruitment threads didn't really do it for me, but now I'm convinced!

His persistence paid off.

[Goobles]

You need to change "Not as many groups" to "if you're not playing a solo class you literally cannot level" and add something in there about how awesome it is to JOUST for an hour

I will not say that, because there are 3 full groups online and exping right now.

[Lune]

http://i.imgur.com/Og96Kr9.jpg

[Biaxil]

http://i.imgur.com/Og96Kr9.jpg

HAHA, LOL'ed hard in Rl. Thank you for this!!! But no really, Red is better.

[Ahldagor]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/procon_zps9f15ad2b.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/RiddlN/media/procon_zps9f15ad2b.jpg.html)

http://i.imgur.com/Og96Kr9.jpg

lulz n and s korea

good work by both of you

[freez]

Red: Be forced to partake in pvp in what is probably the worst pvp mmo of all time.
Blue: Play a game that was designed for pve.



meanwhile on blue


mash target npc

mash auto attack


for 20 hours


every day

[kylok]

Blue server:

http://i.imgur.com/kh64yyS.gif

Red server:

http://i.imgur.com/Xmfwjjc.gif

[Goobles]

I would liken Red to Northern Ireland, tbh

[Ahldagor]

I would liken Red to Northern Ireland, tbh

traitorous protestants?

[Galacticus]

Why is eq considered a bad pvp game?

I consider it the best. It requires much more thinking and timing then any mmo I can think of.

[quido]

blue is dumber now than it has ever been

red is funner now than it has ever been

lol @ harrison rug

[SamwiseRed]

http://i.imgur.com/Og96Kr9.jpg

the first comparison had me rolling. a+

[Galacticus]

Blue Server Daily Activities:

Trading in east commons tunnel.

http://markosun.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/china-crowded-swimming-pools-37.jpg

Trying to find a pickup raid.

http://gdb.rferl.org/B45A33BE-ECDD-4C71-A12A-CAEEB1AD430F_mw1024_n_s.jpg

Waiting in line for dragon loots.

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/51c083436bb3f70a3400000e/14-pictures-that-show-the-world-is-too-crowded.jpg

[Reguiy]

Why is eq considered a bad pvp game?

I consider it the best. It requires much more thinking and timing then any mmo I can think of.

You ever played any other pvp games? EQ is completely unbalanced. Doesn't have gear based around pvp. Is basically all RNG. No real system for interrupts. So more RNG. Horribly long cast times. Stealth classes get negated by 1 item. Zoning. Resists. You're fighting essentially to fuck over the other person's day. Corpse runs. Jousting...lol...jousting. Melees get like 2 abilities. Plus a million other reasons I can't think of off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that r99 is a cesspool.

I''m kinda all over the place, I know. It's hard to really get into it, as there's SO many reason why it's terrible. I played VZ and SZ back in the day and had a blast...but then again, I was a teenager and didn't know any better. Then I played other pvp games and realized how terrible EQ was. Now I prefer to play pvp games with proper balance, that involve real skill, and most importantly, are fun.


P.S. - Damn, Lune. 10/10.

[Galacticus]

You ever played any other pvp games? EQ is completely unbalanced. Doesn't have gear based around pvp. Is basically all RNG. No real system for interrupts. So more RNG. Horribly long cast times. Stealth classes get negated by 1 item. Zoning. Resists. You're fighting essentially to fuck over the other person's day. Corpse runs. Jousting...lol...jousting. Melees get like 2 abilities. Plus a million other reasons I can't think of off the top of my head. Not to mention the fact that r99 is a cesspool.

I''m kinda all over the place, I know. It's hard to really get into it, as there's SO many reason why it's terrible. I played VZ and SZ back in the day and had a blast...but then again, I was a teenager and didn't know any better. Then I played other pvp games and realized how terrible EQ was. Now I prefer to play pvp games with proper balance,
that involve real skill, and most importantly, are fun.


P.S. - Damn, Lune. 10/10.

The balance isn't one player vs another, its group based. Making every class balanced to every other class gives no class a unique role. It makes a bland game like wow where all the classes basically do the same thing its just called a different name.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.

It isn't a twitch fest that rewards the player with the fastest isp who spams their cool down quicker. A long fight is funner and gives more oppertunity for things to happen. Creates room for innovation and timing becomes much more important.

Levitate is huge in pvp and basically lets you fight anywhere in the world if you can be creative.

Resists are pvp gear depending on who you are fighting. It changes and so can your gear.

Melee get two abilities? Do you know what disciplines are?

Jousting is a whole other ball game. It is something that you have to actually get good at. Its about timing, its tactical, it takes into account the environment, you can fake people out. Your positioning actually matters.



Playing games that are super balanced is like playing checkers.

All the pieces are the same, they all do the same thing. They all move the same way. It gets boring.


Playing a game like eq where each piece has its unique role is like playing chess.

Most of the pieces are different and have unique abilities that are used in an almost infinite amount of combinations.

[Giren]

The balance isn't one player vs another, its group based. Making every class balanced to every other class gives no class a unique role. It makes a bland game like wow where all the classes basically do the same thing its just called a different name.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.

It isn't a twitch fest that rewards the player with the fastest isp who spams their cool down quicker. A long fight is funner and gives more oppertunity for things to happen. Creates room for innovation and timing becomes much more important.

Levitate is huge in pvp and basically lets you fight anywhere in the world if you can be creative.

Resists are pvp gear depending on who you are fighting. It changes and so can your gear.

Melee get two abilities? Do you know what disciplines are?

Jousting is a whole other ball game. It is something that you have to actually get good at. Its about timing, its tactical, it takes into account the environment, you can fake people out. Your positioning actually matters.



Playing games that are super balanced is like playing checkers.

All the pieces are the same, they all do the same thing. They all move the same way. It gets boring.


Playing a game like eq where each piece has its unique role is like playing chess.

Most of the pieces are different and have unique roles that are used in an almost infinite amount of combinations.

Your words are moving and very passionate. Too bad they are wrong.

A game being balanced doesn't mean it's simple. Chess is super balanced. Checkers too is super balanced. One is just more complex than the other. It's not an issue of balance.

The man behind the curtain will always say things are just fine. The person that plays the strongest class in anything will always claim that everything is fine the way it is.

Now, that's not to say that you can't have fun on RED. It just takes a special kind of person.

[quido]

I think EQ pvp is great. Yes some classes suck usually, but their niche helpfulness in some situations is indispensible.

Most people who say EQ pvp sucks are just too big of pussies to get decent at it.

[Glasken]

http://i.imgur.com/Og96Kr9.jpg

I saw the outlines for N vs S Korea and lost it. Bravo!

Still tool around on red while waiting for groups/spawns on blue though. There are a few good eggs on red.

[Glenzig]

Your words are moving and very passionate. Too bad they are wrong.

A game being balanced doesn't mean it's simple. Chess is super balanced. Checkers too is super balanced. One is just more complex than the other. It's not an issue of balance.

The man behind the curtain will always say things are just fine. The person that plays the strongest class in anything will always claim that everything is fine the way it is.

Now, that's not to say that you can't have fun on RED. It just takes a special kind of person.

Class balancing is the main reason that pvp heavy games like WoW and GW suck so hard. All classes end up with too many spam abilities and it ruins any chance of having a class that feels unique.

[Giren]

Class balancing is the main reason that pvp heavy games like WoW and GW suck so hard. All classes end up with too many spam abilities and it ruins any chance of having a class that feels unique.

WoW was not created with PvP as a focus.

I could see the argument being made for GW.

But how about a game that is nothing but PvP, like League of Legends?

League of Legends was able to do a game with class balancing with most of the choices feeling different.

Class balancing done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right.

[Tulnavara]

Thought it would be this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo7QCC2EDtk) left disappointed.

[Dacuk]

i will say, i played blue on live, and when i started up on eq emu I tried pvp with some friends. that was 4 years ago, and i have not played a minute on a non pvp server since then. good eq pvp, both small and large scale, is one of the biggest adrenaline rushes you can have gaming.

if anyone wants to give it a shot, send me a pm, would be happy to help you out with noob items / ports / binds / rezes

[Galacticus]

Your words are moving and very passionate. Too bad they are wrong.

A game being balanced doesn't mean it's simple. Chess is super balanced. Checkers too is super balanced. One is just more complex than the other. It's not an issue of balance.

The man behind the curtain will always say things are just fine. The person that plays the strongest class in anything will always claim that everything is fine the way it is.

Now, that's not to say that you can't have fun on RED. It just takes a special kind of person.

I am not implying balance is simple. I am saying that you cant compare individual pieces to other pieces in a game to see how balanced it is. Too many games now think pvp means simpler. It creates games like checkers where every pieces is the same because no one wants one other person to have an advantage over them because "thats not fair or balanced from my perspective". They want to be able to kill everyone else equally.

[Reguiy]

Don't wanna get too into this, but I'll give it a once over.
The balance isn't one player vs another, its group based. Making every class balanced to every other class gives no class a unique role. It makes a bland game like wow where all the classes basically do the same thing its just called a different name.
Your point about all classes being homogenized is a little off based. Unique classes is a good thing. But the bad balance in EQ isn't about different classes filling different unique roles. It's about certain classes being able to fill multiple roles and doing each role much better than other classes (ie - bards and SKs). Sure, rangers have track, and pallies have stuns, and shamans have buffs. But that's all they have and they are turned into track/stun/buffs bots.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.
I mean RNG (random number generator). Not range. RNG is stupid. When I cast a spell I like to know it's going to do something.

It isn't a twitch fest that rewards the player with the fastest isp who spams their cool down quicker. A long fight is funner and gives more oppertunity for things to happen. Creates room for innovation and timing becomes much more important.
I don't understand your point. Good ping is important, just like any other pvp game.

Levitate is huge in pvp and basically lets you fight anywhere in the world if you can be creative.
Ok? Sure levitate is cool I guess. Eq doesn't implement it well as it requires you to be in first person to even have complete control of your mobility.

Resists are pvp gear depending on who you are fighting. It changes and so can your gear.
Stacking resists is stupid. Makes game about luck and not skill.

Melee get two abilities? Do you know what disciplines are?
Ok sorry. You get 3 in an engagement unless it lasts longer than 30 minutes. My bad.

Jousting is a whole other ball game. It is something that you have to actually get good at. Its about timing, its tactical, it takes into account the environment, you can fake people out. Your positioning actually matters.
Running back and forth for 10 minutes is not fun. It may involve some sort of timing skill, but no critical thinking or that great of mechanics. Also, it's ironic that you site faster ISP as a bad thing previously, because that's most of what jousting is.


Playing games that are super balanced is like playing checkers.

All the pieces are the same, they all do the same thing. They all move the same way. It gets boring.


Playing a game like eq where each piece has its unique role is like playing chess.

Most of the pieces are different and have unique abilities that are used in an almost infinite amount of combinations.

[Galacticus]

WoW was not created with PvP as a focus.

I could see the argument being made for GW.

But how about a game that is nothing but PvP, like League of Legends?

League of Legends was able to do a game with class balancing with most of the choices feeling different.

Class balancing done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right.

LoL is twitch heavy just like most pvp games out there. Player versus player is in FPS games, Strategy games, and MOBA games.

The thing is, if you like how eq combat works, if you like how you play the game at all, its hard to not argue for pvp. It is still everquest with its long casting times and its movement speed buffs and its zoning. The only real difference is that someone is intellegently trying to or sometimes failing to outsmart and outplay you.

[Reguiy]

Most people who say EQ pvp sucks are just too big of pussies to get decent at it.

No...just...no.

[freez]

yea.....just...basicly

[Galacticus]

The thing is that if you are good at jousting, and you play a ranger, you can kill someone because your better at jousting then them. No classes are trivialized, each has its own unique spin on shit.

Pvp in eq is something that makes abilities like track actually useful. See invis is important on a pvp server, levitate takes on a whole new meaning and positioning matters. Snaring mobs so they dont run away is boring, snaring people in a fight is a major advantage. Pvp just makes eq better.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.
I mean RNG (random number generator). Not range. RNG is stupid. When I cast a spell I like to know it's going to do something.

The point about ping is that some games now come down to spaming shit super fast and if you have a half second ping advantage you will get the kill vs someone else killing you. It has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with ping. Sure you cant have a shitty connection in eq but it isnt a twitch based system where you lag for a second and your game is over.

I like RNG. They use them in D&D. The reason I like them is that it adds a variablility to the game that makes situations unpredictable. It mimics what happens in real life when things dont go perfect for whatever reason. Even Gandalf fizzled some spells sometimes.

I like to split pvp for eq up into two sections, jousting and spell casting. Each are very different and take time to get good at and master.

Every time I joust against someone I can tell within the first 30 seconds how experienced they are at it.

[Lune]

You guys make some compelling points about why someone might enjoy PvP in EQ; I'm almost convinced.

It's beside the point though. I think a lot of the things many people enjoy about EQ have to do with the system of interaction and personal relationships people form. There is a great deal of cooperation, co-dependency, and camaraderie that develops here, to a degree you just don't see in most MMOs. The addition of PvP fundamentally changes that entire system of interaction. I know all the reasons you enjoy those changes and I understand. But I suspect many people find the altered system distasteful, and I don't think calling them pussies is going to change that.

[Fame]

i have not played a minute on a non pvp server since then.

[Faerie]

You guys make some compelling points about why someone might enjoy PvP in EQ; I'm almost convinced.

It's beside the point though. I think a lot of the things many people enjoy about EQ have to do with the system of interaction and personal relationships people form. There is a great deal of cooperation, co-dependency, and camaraderie that develops here, to a degree you just don't see in most MMOs. The addition of PvP fundamentally changes that entire system of interaction. I know all the reasons you enjoy those changes and I understand. But I suspect many people find the altered system distasteful, and I don't think calling them pussies is going to change that.

Anyone calling anyone a pussy for playing blue is being kinda silly. Red server isn't some hardcore gaming experience that "separates the men from the boys"; really it's about exactly what you mention here: community based around player interaction. PvP adds more depth to the already involved cooperation, co-dependency, and camaraderie that exists on blue. Your friendships and your rivalries both seem to mean more in a world where you can all attack each other at will.

I tried playing on blue for a couple months. Made it to my 30s grouping on a cleric, and while it was fun chatting and getting to know people, something was missing, and that something was the social depth I grew up knowing by playing EQ pvp. It really ruined me for most MMOs.

Red server has actual bad guys and good guys. Blue server sort of does, but when your interactions with each other are so limited there isn't much chance of being surprised. Good guys on blue spend some of their time offering items to noobs, rezzing people, porting people, or whatever. And it's great! But compare that to the red server, where people do all of those when they have the option of killing you instead, and that contrast of friend vs. foe really allows for the good guy to shine.

It sometimes sucks getting PKed of course, but when you consider that the bad guys on the blue server are really neutral and cannot interact as bad guys with most people the majority of the time, well... it kinda pales in comparison with the bad guys on red.

Basically, there's like a simple spectrum of "social depth" that goes from negative to positive. Blue EQ takes up more total space on this spectrum than WoW; but red EQ goes even further, spreading out more both toward the negative and the positive sides of the spectrum, reaching toward the limits of what MMOs have been able to find themselves at. Really I think only games like EVE go further.

Maybe a long-winded explanation, sorry. But this is what keeps me playing EQ, and it seems like such a shame that most of you will have a comparably limited experience.

[Swish]

http://i.minus.com/iDMzpNWCgJuWu.gif

[drktmplr12]

All I can imagine for red is never wanting to hit level 52...

[Swish]

Changes incoming, including a 4 level pvp range...so make that L56, and by then you'll just want to get to 60 anyway :)

[Goobles]

This is for you, drktmplr

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/RiddlN/tpbmeet_zps751e8e89.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/RiddlN/media/tpbmeet_zps751e8e89.jpg.html)

[drktmplr12]

fuck man really? was that at one of their shows on tour? Randy's gut is bigger than ever.

[Goobles]

Yeah that was the Dec. 13th show in Duluth,MN. Also, my birthday. Couldn't have asked for more.

[Galacticus]

Ho Shaka brah

[Ahldagor]

http://i.imgur.com/Gjuj1P6.png

[SamwiseRed]

GMs on blue
http://i.imgur.com/NiAPY2z.jpg

GMs on red
http://i.imgur.com/vALLo6C.jpg