This is disturbing

[Sidelle]

Pennsylvania's High Court Rules Police No Longer Need Warrant To Search Vehicles (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/30/pa-high-court-rules-police-no-longer-need-warrant-/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS)

Pennsylvania police officers no longer need a warrant to search a citizen’s vehicle, the state’s Supreme Court ruled Tuesday.

Drivers in the state used to be able to refuse a warrantless search, but now their vehicles can be subject to search when a police officer determines there is “reasonable probable cause” to do so, the Intelligencer Journal reported.

The high court’s ruling, passed on a 4-2 vote, is being called a drastic change in citizens’ rights and police authority, the paper said.

“This is a significant change in long-standing Pennsylvania criminal law, and it is a good one,” said Lancaster County District Attorney Craig Stedman. “This case gives the police simpler guidelines to follow and (it) finally and clearly renders our law consistent with established federal law.”

“It is a ruling that helps law enforcement as they continue to find people in possession of illegal drugs,” said New Holland police Lt. Jonathan Heisse.
But critics say the ruling gives too much power to the police and will infringe on citizens’ privacy.

“It’s an expanding encroachment of government power,” defense attorney Jeffrey Conrad told the paper. “It’s a protection we had two days ago, that we don’t have today. It’s disappointing from a citizens’ rights perspective.”

In a dissent, Justice Debra Todd said the decision “contravenes over 225 years of unyielding protection against unreasonable search and seizure.” She calls the change “diametrically contrary to the deep historical and legal traditions” of Pennsylvania.

Is anyone else concerned about this?

[Scikala]

Nope, I live in a different state.

In the long run, yes.

We've had a steady decline in freedom under the guise of stopping terrorists for a long time, and with corporate america being allowed to run rampant, most recent being the FCC not fighting for open internet.,,ie appealing the court decision(Which I feel sorry for comcast people)

And sometimes I feel like it could get a lot worse before people would fight it.

[Goofier]

Shiem Gary filed the Philadelphia appeal, arguing that police didn’t have probable cause to search his vehicle on Jan. 15, 2010. Officers found two pounds of marijuana stashed under the vehicle’s hood.

LOL
Yeah, wonder why he appealed?
I'll talk to a cop buddy about it, but...
I was under the impression that if you refused, they'd just detain you while they get a warrant and it only made it more of a PITA for everyone.
Further diggin' to come :)

[Glenzig]

Concerned? Yeah, slightly. I've never done drugs or anything like that, so I'm not really scared of police searching my car. But, that's not to say they couldn't "find" something in there if they really wanted to.

Surprised? Not even a little bit. Its basically what they were doing anyway, they've just removed your legal recourse to launch a civil suit. Humans have no real freedom anymore. It will only continue to get worse and worse.

[Skittlez]

Isn't this a direct violation of the US Constituition? Even if something happened wouldn't you be able to take it to the Supreme Court or another Federal level court?

[Rogean]

This has always been the case in most states. It says that if the police officer has probably cause, he can search without a warrant. It sounds like previously even if they SAW drugs sitting in plain site, they couldn't search. In any other state the officer would arrest you and search the car. So PA is just getting in line with most other states now.

[Goofier]

Yeah, things can be odd in a commonwealth, as opposed to a state.

[Tecmos Deception]

Cops able to do something when they have probable cause that a crime is being/has been committed? MADNESS!

[Furniture]

As rogean said this is nothing new and its always been that they can search your car under the 4th amendment with probably cause.

In NY and id imagine most if not all states this is the case. If a cop smells weed coming out of your car or can spot something that even resembles something illegal from outside of the car (like a joint roach or something) or anything like that then you can 100% expect your car to get searched and there isnt anything you can do about it. It would be kind of ridiculous to think that a cop should have to leave you and your car and go get a warrant before he can search it.

Its really not a big deal though. Keep your drugs/guns/kidnap victims at home. Keeping anything illegal in your car when you don't have to do is just plain stupid.

[Glenzig]

Isn't this a direct violation of the US Constituition? Even if something happened wouldn't you be able to take it to the Supreme Court or another Federal level court?

You don't live in America do you?

[Thulack]

Lol my local Paper is the one quoted in that article. And yeah not suprised at all.

[moklianne]

This has always been the case in most states. It says that if the police officer has probably cause, he can search without a warrant. It sounds like previously even if they SAW drugs sitting in plain site, they couldn't search. In any other state the officer would arrest you and search the car. So PA is just getting in line with most other states now.

Yup, its been this way in NY forever.

[Millburn]

It's been like this for a long ass time in quite a few states. A lot of times the way the police get "probable cause" in these scenarios is to call in a K-9 unit. This is assuming that they're shady as fuck at this point which is not what I'm implying happens all the time but it does happen. The K-9 handler can give a signal and have the dog put his paw up on the car which would give them probable cause because the dog is "signaling".

[Ahldagor]

in tx, state troopers just have to say "i smell marijuana" and they can search your car. only reason they say it is for the dash recorders. they search everyone regardless of probable cause.

[Rogean]

So far every time I've been pulled over by state troopers in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Kansas, they've all been professional and down to business without overreaching (which has been quite a few times). Both times I was pulled over by local cops they've wanted to give me shit about every little thing and one went even so far as to ask me to move things around in my own car so he could see what was under them. Was asking me if I had been drinking even there was no indication whatsoever, gave me some bullshit ticket (wasn't even speeding), and etc.

Local cops are just far less educated than troopers.

[Glenzig]

So far every time I've been pulled over by state troopers in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Kansas, they've all been professional and down to business without overreaching (which has been quite a few times). Both times I was pulled over by local cops they've wanted to give me shit about every little thing and one went even so far as to ask me to move things around in my own car so he could see what was under them. Was asking me if I had been drinking even there was no indication whatsoever, gave me some bullshit ticket (wasn't even speeding), and etc.

Local cops are just far less educated than troopers.

Yeah that's pretty much a running theme everywhere. Got pulled over once in my hometown by a local cop. I wasn't speeding, hadn't made any funny or illegal turns, hadn't run any lights or stop signs. I asked him why he pulled me over, he said I was "swerving in my own lane". I told him I didn't even know what that meant or how it could be ticket able since its not causing any danger to myself or others.

Then he proceeded to tell me that I had in fact swerved into the other lane. I asked him when this happened. He told me the approximate place, I believe it was right before a bridge. I said, "oh yeah, I may have swerved there, didn't you see the dog carcass on the road?"
"Yes but that's no reason to swerve into oncoming traffic."
I was a little younger then, so my smart behind told him to go back with a shovel and get the dead dog out of the road if its causing an obvious danger."
I ended up not even getting a ticket for the swerving, but my license was expired by 2 days. $450 ticket.
Just thought I would vent my anger for a second. Sorry for the wall of text, or if you just really didn't care about my stupid story.

[Goofier]

Local cops are just far less educated than troopers.

Smaller budgets, too.
They have to justify the time they waste.
State troopers hereabouts generally won't pull you over unless you're doing at least 75 in a 55, less and they won't bother. Locals, however, are famous for a few speed traps.

[Raavak]

I was under the understanding that police had the right to search if they had probably cause already. Or maybe that was just my state.

My experience with cops is that though local cops aren't as educated they also were more likely to let me go for obvious minor infractions, where I would think a state trooper may not.

[Rogean]

Local cops love to play the "what if" game. "So you swerved into oncoming traffic to avoid the animal. What if another car was there?" "Well sir if there was another car there I would have to have slammed my brakes then, causing your dumb ass to rear end me and cite me for that instead so that you can avoid taking responsibility for the accident."

[tekniq]

As rogean said this is nothing new and its always been that they can search your car under the 4th amendment with probably cause.

In NY and id imagine most if not all states this is the case. If a cop smells weed coming out of your car or can spot something that even resembles something illegal from outside of the car (like a joint roach or something) or anything like that then you can 100% expect your car to get searched and there isnt anything you can do about it. It would be kind of ridiculous to think that a cop should have to leave you and your car and go get a warrant before he can search it.

Its really not a big deal though. Keep your drugs/guns/kidnap victims at home. Keeping anything illegal in your car when you don't have to do is just plain stupid.

Even if he smells anything, he can't search your car. He has no probably cause that the smell came from weed or if you ran over a skunk. If something is visible in your car, he may have the right to search it, but saying "i smell something" is way too vague and I can see how they can exploit this.

[Zadrian]

Ironically, I'm moving out of PA in the coming weeks.

[tekniq]

So far every time I've been pulled over by state troopers in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Kansas, they've all been professional and down to business without overreaching (which has been quite a few times). Both times I was pulled over by local cops they've wanted to give me shit about every little thing and one went even so far as to ask me to move things around in my own car so he could see what was under them. Was asking me if I had been drinking even there was no indication whatsoever, gave me some bullshit ticket (wasn't even speeding), and etc.

Local cops are just far less educated than troopers.

Rogean, I'm assuming you're an average white male and you drive a non-riced out EVO..they wouldn't give you shit. Now if you were black and driving a hoopty or with 20 inch rims, I guarantee their demeanor would be different. Stereotypes still exist...shit when I get pulled over, I put on my fake glasses so I look like an intelligent asian man coming home from a hard night's study session at the library or from church worship and I don't even get a ticket sometimes.

[Rogean]

Yea my car still needs to look professional for work. I actually went anti chrome. I painted all the chrome black. Wheels are the only white part of my car left. Looks more like a police car than a sports car, cause I have blue line plate in front, tons of gadgets in the windshield, the mounted laser jammers look like lights. A lot of people get out of my way on the highway, it's great. Definitely didn't black/smoke my lights, hate that.

[Rogean]

Oh and illegally tinted windows.

[mefdinkins]

The Fourth Amendment protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures. The requirement for a warrant and probable cause flow from the Fourth Amendment. Warrantless arrests are generally permissible, warrantless searches are disfavored and are per se unreasonable subject only to a few specifically established and well-delineated exceptions.

One of those exceptions is the 'automobile exception'. When police have probable cause to believe that an automobile contains the fruits, instrumentalities or evidence of crime, they may search the vehicle without a warrant. The exception turns on the ready mobility of vehicles, and on the presence of the vehicle in a setting that objectively indicates that the vehicle is being used for transportation. Since vehicles can drive away, search is allowed without waiting for a warrant. Additionally, government regulates cars with licensing etc., so individuals have less expectation of privacy in a vehicle.

There are other circumstances where 'warrantless searches' are not violative of the U.S. Constitution. Many of you have cited the 'plain view' exception etc.

The US Constitution in some cases serves as a floor or ceiling for what is lawful/unlawful. In this case it seems that PA had rules that protected individual's privacy beyond what was required by the US Constitution. It looks as though PA now curtailed that 'privacy' to be more in line with other states.

[Goofier]

True story...

Got pulled over in Milwaukee once by locals. The punk bands I was hanging out with back then just hit town for a show. The moment the rented, out-of-state van full of black leather, spikes, mohawks and skinheads changed lanes without signalling, they got lit up. We were following them, they had the map, so we all pull over.

The cops search the van, found a pipe or two and a corner baggy of weed here and there. They wrote a couple tickets, then looked at our car and decided to search it. Which was unfortunate, 'cause that's where the bulk of the illegal shit was, including a gun that I didn't know about. The driver says he didn't know it was there either, who knows.

So they haul me and the driver in, and keep him without bail on a felony. They bailed me and I showed up the following Monday to see the magistrate.

No probable cause to search, kicked us both.

We also got strip-searched going into Canada once, but that's another story.

[Sidelle]

Ironically, I'm moving out of PA in the coming weeks.

I'm jealous. I want out but I'm stuck until divorce is settled. I just don't fit in around here. I'm originally from Washington state and still miss it, so maybe I'll end up back there eventually.

Rogean, I'm assuming you're an average white male and you drive a non-riced out EVO..they wouldn't give you shit. Now if you were black and driving a hoopty or with 20 inch rims, I guarantee their demeanor would be different. Stereotypes still exist...shit when I get pulled over, I put on my fake glasses so I look like an intelligent asian man coming home from a hard night's study session at the library or from church worship and I don't even get a ticket sometimes.

^^Lol that's hilarious!

So, about the probable cause thing... I guess it just bothers me because it makes it easier for cops to get away with shit. I realize not all cops are dicks but a good many of them are. The constitutional protection that we're taking for granted here in this country is slowly being chipped away and if it keeps happening how far will it go and will it ever end?

Does anyone else not feel how divided we've become as a nation? I don't think it's ever been this bad before. I know it sounds tin-foily but it's getting worse and, in my opinion, a lot of it seems to be by design.

...Or maybe I'm just crazy. Lol

[Sidelle]

^^And if that seemed like tin-foil talk, that ain't shit compared to some of the conspiracy theories floating around out there. Stuff about the Main Core list and FEMA camps being built all over the US. It's enough to make you say "No way, is this really going on, and wtf why?"

Obviously you can't just believe everything you read so I guess when and if it unfolds the way some people fear it will, I'll have my answers. (a.k.a. See you all at Camp!) :D

P.S. It would be great to have a trustworthy news source, btw..

[Tasslehofp99]

Yeah, I'm pretty nervous about the direction this country is headed.



You can be stopped/frisked on the streets of new York just for looking the part, its fucked up.

Things are starting to look more and more like post-Reichstag fire Germany around here, started with the patriot act and then the NDAA...among other horrifying/unconstitutional laws/policies being implemented by our tyrannical government. Not even kidding when I say I believe a revolution is coming in this country in the next 50 years, that or a genocide.

[tekniq]

Yea my car still needs to look professional for work. I actually went anti chrome. I painted all the chrome black. Wheels are the only white part of my car left. Looks more like a police car than a sports car, cause I have blue line plate in front, tons of gadgets in the windshield, the mounted laser jammers look like lights. A lot of people get out of my way on the highway, it's great. Definitely didn't black/smoke my lights, hate that.

Yea, my car needs to look professional for work too...I get comments from the older folks asking if I race or what not. I mean, I have a stock looking dual-tip stromung exhaust on my WRX, but the growl is very prominent. That's about it..my wheels are pretty nice though, BBS snowflakes.

[Lictor]

The US Constitution in some cases serves as a floor or ceiling for what is lawful/unlawful. In this case it seems that PA had rules that protected individual's privacy beyond what was required by the US Constitution. It looks as though PA now curtailed that 'privacy' to be more in line with other states.

The federal constitution is a floor. It is the minimum amount of protection every individual in the US gets. The states are free to give the individual more protection from government entities, but are not required to do so.

It looks like PA gave its citizens more protection than the federal standard for years and now is reverting back the the minimum (federal law). This isn't ground breaking or disturbing at all.

[Lictor]

And to agree with the previous poster. Texas troopers are vastly more educated than municipal cops. And texas vehicle search is in line with the federal standard.

[Goofier]

Not even kidding when I say I believe a revolution is coming in this country in the next 50 years, that or a genocide.

Nah, they'll just Bush-up a new enemy we can all hate equally enough to distract us.

[nonphixion]

last time a cop searched my car he gave up before it was filled with garbage and unfinished mcdonalds, prooving he had not real reason to do so or else he would have finished the search imo!

[Zadrian]

I'm jealous. I want out but I'm stuck until divorce is settled. I just don't fit in around here. I'm originally from Washington state and still miss it, so maybe I'll end up back there eventually.





Yeaaah don't be jealous. I'm officially moving to Chestertown in MD... There's nothing there..

I'm actually hoping to move back to PA in a few years, probably Fort Washington.

[Sidelle]

Yeah, I'm pretty nervous about the direction this country is headed.



You can be stopped/frisked on the streets of new York just for looking the part, its fucked up.

Things are starting to look more and more like post-Reichstag fire Germany around here, started with the patriot act and then the NDAA...among other horrifying/unconstitutional laws/policies being implemented by our tyrannical government. Not even kidding when I say I believe a revolution is coming in this country in the next 50 years, that or a genocide.

^^It's a scary thought but I agree with you.

Maybe the PA law change is nothing new or disturbing to most people (btw, thanks to those of you who explained it a bit more in this thread) but I tend to believe we're in for more significant changes eventually if people don't open their eyes and start noticing what we're letting slip away bit by bit.

[Sidelle]

last time a cop searched my car he gave up before it was filled with garbage and unfinished mcdonalds, prooving he had not real reason to do so or else he would have finished the search imo!

Haha! Nice.

Yeaaah don't be jealous. I'm officially moving to Chestertown in MD... There's nothing there..

I'm actually hoping to move back to PA in a few years, probably Fort Washington.

Ok. Not jealous anymore. Good luck with your move. :D

[Scikala]

I'd be more concerned with the sheep like apathy of people my age and younger.(30) Even I find myself caring less, as it becomes apparent how little control or influence we really have in our country....some democracy.

[radditsu]

I'm jealous. I want out but I'm stuck until divorce is settled. I just don't fit in around here. I'm originally from Washington state and still miss it, so maybe I'll end up back there eventually.



^^Lol that's hilarious!

So, about the probable cause thing... I guess it just bothers me because it makes it easier for cops to get away with shit. I realize not all cops are dicks but a good many of them are. The constitutional protection that we're taking for granted here in this country is slowly being chipped away and if it keeps happening how far will it go and will it ever end?

Does anyone else not feel how divided we've become as a nation? I don't think it's ever been this bad before. I know it sounds tin-foily but it's getting worse and, in my opinion, a lot of it seems to be by design.

...Or maybe I'm just crazy. Lol

Blacks
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movements_for_civil_rights


Irish
http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/timeline/progress/immigrnt/

Aids/gays up until 2012

Civil war?

Pre united states confederation uprisings?


Trail of tears/manifest destiny?

Nation built upon disparate groups have always been splintered. I am glad you paid attention in school.

[phacemeltar]

last time a cop searched my car he gave up before it was filled with garbage and unfinished mcdonalds, prooving he had not real reason to do so or else he would have finished the search imo!

no need, theres a new season of american idol coming out soon!

[Tokai Saikutsu]

We havent been a democracy since 9/11 gave them an excuse to pass insane laws.

Just buy a bigger gun and be ready

[Bamz4l]

Nope, I live in a different state.

In the long run, yes.

We've had a steady decline in freedom under the guise of stopping terrorists for a long time, and with corporate america being allowed to run rampant, most recent being the FCC not fighting for open internet.,,ie appealing the court decision(Which I feel sorry for comcast people)

And sometimes I feel like it could get a lot worse before people would fight it.

and when exactly are you starting

[Ahldagor]

The Fourth Amendment protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures. The requirement for a warrant and probable cause flow from the Fourth Amendment. Warrantless arrests are generally permissible, warrantless searches are disfavored and are per se unreasonable subject only to a few specifically established and well-delineated exceptions.

One of those exceptions is the 'automobile exception'. When police have probable cause to believe that an automobile contains the fruits, instrumentalities or evidence of crime, they may search the vehicle without a warrant. The exception turns on the ready mobility of vehicles, and on the presence of the vehicle in a setting that objectively indicates that the vehicle is being used for transportation. Since vehicles can drive away, search is allowed without waiting for a warrant. Additionally, government regulates cars with licensing etc., so individuals have less expectation of privacy in a vehicle.

There are other circumstances where 'warrantless searches' are not violative of the U.S. Constitution. Many of you have cited the 'plain view' exception etc.

The US Constitution in some cases serves as a floor or ceiling for what is lawful/unlawful. In this case it seems that PA had rules that protected individual's privacy beyond what was required by the US Constitution. It looks as though PA now curtailed that 'privacy' to be more in line with other states.

that's the tricky part because the expectation is subjective, but cars are used in public places that are subjected to laws and regulations. some interesting court cases coming up in the next few years regarding privacy.


Nah, they'll just Bush-up a new enemy we can all hate equally enough to distract us.

they'll legalize marijuana first.

[Scikala]

and when exactly are you starting

Not sure I understand your question. When am I going...to change things? Well for starters I wasnt born in the US, so that limits things(in regards to certain positions of power), and as far as I'm concerned our political system is corrupt as fuck, but it's so ingrained that nothing but a radial change would solve anything. And I have neither the capital or influence for such a thing.

The best I can do is stay informed and be ready, if something I can do arises.

[Rellapse40]

The south will rise again

[Scrooge]

Anyone who still thinks the US is a democratic nation, I've got two words for you, Patriot Act.

[BigHurb]

now THIS is disturbing... ly awesome

female to male (trans-man) gets fucked by male to female (transexual) ... tits and a dick vs pecks and a pussy... now tell me that doesn't just put things in perspective here!

hold on while i search and seize my ...

http://www.tube8.com/shemale/fetish/ftm-transman-and-mtf-transwoman-having-wild-sex/1978951/

[Sidelle]

now THIS is disturbing... ly awesome

female to male (trans-man) gets fucked by male to female (transexual) ... tits and a dick vs pecks and a pussy... now tell me that doesn't just put things in perspective here!

hold on while i search and seize my ...

http://www.tube8.com/shemale/fetish/ftm-transman-and-mtf-transwoman-having-wild-sex/1978951/

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6tfbbkCAU1r3kkky.gif

[Tasslehofp99]

In new York we've got these "Stop and frisk" laws, where police "AT RANDOM" can choose any person off of the crowded new York city streets and search their pockets/frisk them. I've had it happen twice to me personally in manhattan alone, a lot of people are up in arms about it. Also, If you're caught without a legitimate photo id in NYC, you will be arrested. I'm not kidding when I say that 9/11 was the equivalent of the Reichstag Fire in pre-ww2 Germany. It's fucking crazy here now, and it's getting worse.


Even if he smells anything, he can't search your car. He has no probably cause that the smell came from weed or if you ran over a skunk. If something is visible in your car, he may have the right to search it, but saying "i smell something" is way too vague and I can see how they can exploit this.

Cops in new York have searched me and friends cars for smelling like weed before. Fortunately for us, it's not illegal to smell like weed. Just don't be dumb and carry weed in your car, lock it in the glove box or a trunk. I'm almost positive that police need warrants to open any locked boxes/areas.

Anyone who still thinks the US is a democratic nation, I've got two words for you, Patriot Act.

I'll see your patriot act and raise you a National Defense Authorization Act! If you don't know what that is, please look into it. It's seriously scary.

[mefdinkins]

Under stop and frisk exception, when someone is 'reasonably stopped' police officers have a right to perform a cursory search, pat down or frisk, of the stopped individual to ensure their own safety. If a police officer reasonably believes that a person is armed/dangerous than they can perform the minor inconvenience of a pat down (without warrant or probable cause). The sole justification for such a search is for the protection of the officer and others nearby, so search must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns/knives/clubs or other dangerous instruments for the assault of a police officer.

If a police officer does a 'stop and frisk' and feels a huge rock of crack cocaine they can't do anything about it because that is outside the scope of what they're looking for under the 'stop and frisk' exception.

[Tasslehofp99]

Under stop and frisk exception, when someone is 'reasonably stopped' police officers have a right to perform a cursory search, pat down or frisk, of the stopped individual to ensure their own safety. If a police officer reasonably believes that a person is armed/dangerous than they can perform the minor inconvenience of a pat down (without warrant or probable cause). The sole justification for such a search is for the protection of the officer and others nearby, so search must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns/knives/clubs or other dangerous instruments for the assault of a police officer.

If a police officer does a 'stop and frisk' and feels a huge rock of crack cocaine they can't do anything about it because that is outside the scope of what they're looking for under the 'stop and frisk' exception.

Just sounds unconstitutional.

What can you do about it now though? Everything seems so far gone, I mean as of right now the government can detain or kill anyone they want (citizens included) if they declare them an enemy combatant.

The American people need to wake the fuck up and take their nation back. Anyone voting for these republican and democrat liars is contributing to the destruction of our nation. Its time for REAL change, instead of just being lied to continuously we need to refuse to take part in this farce that is American politics.

I mean less than 50% of thr eligible voters in this nation actually vote and of those voters the election is split every time nearly 50/50. We haven't had a president in the united states who legitimately represented a majority of the people in decades! Despite what the old guard politicians would have you believe many of the non-voters in this country abstain from voting because picking the lesser of two evils simply isn't a decision we are willing to make.

I just feel sorry for anyone who thinks liberals and conservatives are not on the same side. They go out, trash talk eachother, then when it's all said and done their main objective is to keep the wool over the eyes of the sheep voters.

[Bamz4l]

Anyone who still thinks the US is a democratic nation, I've got two words for you, Patriot Act.

Agenda 21

[Sidelle]

In new York we've got these "Stop and frisk" laws, where police "AT RANDOM" can choose any person off of the crowded new York city streets and search their pockets/frisk them. I've had it happen twice to me personally in manhattan alone, a lot of people are up in arms about it. Also, If you're caught without a legitimate photo id in NYC, you will be arrested. I'm not kidding when I say that 9/11 was the equivalent of the Reichstag Fire in pre-ww2 Germany. It's fucking crazy here now, and it's getting worse.

Cops in new York have searched me and friends cars for smelling like weed before. Fortunately for us, it's not illegal to smell like weed. Just don't be dumb and carry weed in your car, lock it in the glove box or a trunk. I'm almost positive that police need warrants to open any locked boxes/areas.

I'll see your patriot act and raise you a National Defense Authorization Act! If you don't know what that is, please look into it. It's seriously scary.

That is seriously messed up because, by law, you are not required to carry an ID card of any kind except for maybe immigration documents (I think) and obviously a driver license if you're driving. You are supposed to tell them your name if asked, but that's it. No one can force you to have ID if you're some random person on the sidewalk minding your own goddamned business and not breaking any laws.

It might seem like a small and petty thing to most people nowadays, questioning police and goverment authority over an ID card, but think of it like this: THOSE ASSHOLES ARE THE ONES DISREGARDING THE LAW AND YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WHILE AT THE SAME TIME TREATING YOU LIKE SOME CRIMINAL, DESPITE THE FACT YOU ARE WELL WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS TO NOT HAVE TO SHOW ID.

http://www.knowmyrights.org/knowledgebase/faq/police-encounters/when-do-i-have-to-show-id

…Sorry for yelling with caps, I got mad for a minute. Lol...

[Rogean]

You are supposed to tell them your name if asked, but that's it.

Actually not even that. It might vary by state but unless you're suspected of a crime, you don't have to provide shit.

It's pretty common among people who open carry in the states that allow it. People will call the police, they'll show up and be like "Let's see some ID.". Guy will be like "What crime are you suspecting me of that requires me to show ID?" Cop will say "You're carrying a fucking AK-47 strapped around your shoulder." Guy will say "Well sir, Open carry is legal in this state so I don't need to show you my ID."

Cop would be pissed off and probably follow you around for the rest of the day but they can't do anything lol.

[BigHurb]

its fairly clear that in this day and age, with the advanced weaponry, no one needs to open carry a weapon that could mass kill. its not even a debate, it makes people really uncomfortable, and your rights and others rights are both real.

the compromise is concealed carry, then no one knows and everyone should treat people with respect anyway.

open carry = dick contest

[Azure]

naw open carry means people shoudln't be afraid of firearms and in some places it's normal to carry a gun on you... like hiking in bear country (or on your own land). and it's dumb/unsafe to require extra special shit that a nannystate can harras u with if a heartbrand happens to be in the woods nearbye

open carry in downtown NYC does not make much sense unless you are a bodyguard/mercenary, or law enforcement, but they have special shit for that anyhooo

P.S. Rogean is making the most sense in this thread......

P.S.P.S. there's a difference between fear and respect, fear is irrational and leads to pathological behaviors, respect is rational and leads to constructive behavior

[mefdinkins]

Here is a video of a police officer that understands individual's rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9wahCTz08

[Millburn]

Major props to the officer on that video but holy crap that kid must be such an insufferable twat in real life.

[Sidelle]

Major props to the officer on that video but holy crap that kid must be such an insufferable twat in real life.

Lol, I agree. Perfect word to describe the kid. And that cop was definitely cool as hell.

[Azure]

kidz were dicks, officer just doing his job, they could have not been dicks about it

[Glenzig]

Agenda 21

Agenda 21 is a U.N. made document. Though its true the U.S. will be right there with Britain pushing it hard and heavy, its going to ultimately come from the U.N. not any one government.

[BigHurb]

Agenda 21 is a U.N. made document. Though its true the U.S. will be right there with Britain pushing it hard and heavy, its going to ultimately come from the U.N. not any one government.

well then the united nations would be the world "one" government essentially. no biggie.

[Glenzig]

well then the united nations would be the world "one" government essentially. no biggie.

True.

[Sidelle]

Who the hell in their right mind would want the entire world governed by the UN? That's crazy talk. Lol

Please tell me why you'd like them to have control of the world, I have to know.

[radditsu]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lveQKYb_HyI


E plubris anus

[phacemeltar]

Who the hell in their right mind would want the entire world governed by the UN? That's crazy talk. Lol

Please tell me why you'd like them to have control of the world, I have to know.

if our entire civilization could operate based on a single document, simlilar to the US constitution, then i think it would set the pace for us to finally reach unity as a people. unfortunately, the UN was established by the few, and in operation does not reflect a globally unified mindset.

[phacemeltar]

so far gone

dont you know that its wrong to take what is given you? save money, but it wont get you too far.

[Ahldagor]

Who the hell in their right mind would want the entire world governed by the UN? That's crazy talk. Lol

Please tell me why you'd like them to have control of the world, I have to know.

look at how budgetary funding is split amongst the member countries and you'll see who wants the UN to have authority.

[myriverse]

This has always been the case in most states. It says that if the police officer has probably cause, he can search without a warrant. It sounds like previously even if they SAW drugs sitting in plain site, they couldn't search. In any other state the officer would arrest you and search the car. So PA is just getting in line with most other states now.
This has been the case in Louisiana for decades.

A couple years ago, the Louisiana Supreme Court deemed that moving back and forth from one parked vehicle to another was suspicious enough to be "probable cause." So, you two-car families be careful going for little Suzie's extra binky.

[Goofier]

So, you two-car families be careful going for little Suzie's extra binky.

Well, at least the ones with, like, heroin in the car.

Another true story, knew a guy that once had to stop for gas with 25 Lbs. of fresh-harvested pot in the trunk of his car. Before he realized, right across the pump from him was a state trooper.

[Glenzig]

Who the hell in their right mind would want the entire world governed by the UN? That's crazy talk. Lol

Please tell me why you'd like them to have control of the world, I have to know.

Doesn't matter what you or I want. The U.N. isn't concerned with a democratic vote. It will simply come down to the right timing for them to implement what they already have in place.