ninja looting or no?

[HawkMasterson1999]

I've been reading the thread about the epic mob getting ninja's bc the intended recipient wasn't in the kill group and it got me to thinking...

If you were to camp the AC (or any mob with nodrop loot for that matter) with the intention of logging an alt to loot it after the kill and somebody else rolled up and spam clicked the corpse to loot .1 seconds before your alt could get it would that be considered a ninja loot? Do I have the right to camp the AC that way or is an "at your own risk" kind of thing?

[fadetree]

You lose looting rights when you log off, imo.

[Glenzig]

You lose looting rights when you log off, imo.

From my understanding of the rules as discussed in the other post, whoever kills the mob owns the rights to the loot and can do whatsoever they please with it. So by the letter of the law that has been laid down thus far, this would be ninjalooting.

[fadetree]

Not if they log off.

[Sylexis]

Frankly I don't think it's a bannable offense, or at least it really should not be. You never know if someone went LD or not, at that point it's a matter of whether you'd like to be nice to the person swapping characters/coming back from LD or not, and as BDA shows us in the other thread, there is no requirement of being nice to play the game.

[Glenzig]

Not if they log off.

Does that negate the kill? What if they leave the zone?

[arsenalpow]

as BDA shows us in the other thread, there is no requirement of being nice to play the game.
You're an idiot.

(This was my 1000th post, since RnF doesn't count. Seems fine)

[fadetree]

Well, its just opinion, but I can't see how you could claim to own the kill still if you've logged off ( or left the zone, for that matter ). What the actual rules say, I don't know, as my level of shits given is not sufficient to make me actually go look.

[Sylexis]

You're an idiot.

Could you do me a favor and list your actual in game name with your signature so I can put you on ignore? Whether that enchanter deserved to be banned or really Ninja looted or not, you did nothing but rake your guilds reputation across the coals for 30 pages. So let's not argue who's the idiot here and just give me your character name.

[Glenzig]

What if you did a shout to the zone that you were logging over to another char to loot the corpse? That would cover your loot rights I believe. Correct?

[arsenalpow]

Could you do me a favor and list your actual in game name with your signature so I can put you on ignore? Whether that enchanter deserved to be banned or really Ninja looted or not, you did nothing but rake your guilds reputation across the coals for 30 pages. So let's not argue who's the idiot here and just give me your character name.

I outed a malicious ninja looter to the community. I'm a goddamn saint.

Saint Rockwell.

[Juevento]

Who's ur main Arsenalpow?!?!

[Sylexis]

What if you did a shout to the zone that you were logging over to another char to loot the corpse? That would cover your loot rights I believe. Correct?

That's still playing nice, that doesn't give you anything tangible to keep your loot rights.

Example: Bag drop transfers, you're just switching characters, but how many people post on here "sucks to be you" when the items are taken by someone while you're switching.

[HawkMasterson1999]

I definitely won't bank on people just being nice. Maybe last year and before but not now. I think /shouting would just be a big advertisement "Hey, come loot my mob". I was just curios if I did this and got ninja'd if I would have a leg to stand on for /petition. Guess I can just sell a MQ then use that money to buy my own MQ. Pain in the ass but it beats getting ninja looted.

[Glenzig]

That's still playing nice, that doesn't give you anything tangible to keep your loot rights.

Example: Bag drop transfers, you're just switching characters, but how many people post on here "sucks to be you" when the items are taken by someone while you're switching.

Yeah but bag drops aren't mobs. If you can't call loot rights to a mob for another one of your own characters, then doesn't that kinda take us back to square one on whether you can hold loot rights for someone not in your group? Both are characters not in your group, and both are characters that you have decided you want the loot to go to. Both are not going to be able to loot until the timer opens.

[Ravager]

I definitely won't bank on people just being nice. Maybe last year and before but not now. I think /shouting would just be a big advertisement "Hey, come loot my mob". I was just curios if I did this and got ninja'd if I would have a leg to stand on for /petition. Guess I can just sell a MQ then use that money to buy my own MQ. Pain in the ass but it beats getting ninja looted.

Do what I do. Have see invis on. When AC pops, take him out in the ocean and kill him there. You'll know if anyone followed you and the corpse will be in a place unlikely to be ninja'd.

[Sylexis]

Yeah but bag drops aren't mobs. If you can't call loot rights to a mob for another one of your own characters, then doesn't that kinda take us back to square one on whether you can hold loot rights for someone not in your group? Both are characters not in your group, and both are characters that you have decided you want the loot to go to. Both are not going to be able to loot until the timer opens.

Certainly plausible, but is a newbie going to be banned for seeing a dead mob as he runs by and looting the 2 copper and 1 rusty dagger? If someone isn't maintaining a presence at the mob to lay claim to the loot of that mob then that mob's loot is relinquished, you can't feasibly leave and yet continue to lay claim.

[Sylexis]

Do what I do. Have see invis on. When AC pops, take him out in the ocean and kill him there. You'll know if anyone followed you and the corpse will be in a place unlikely to be ninja'd.

That is a brilliant idea.

[Kekephee]

take him out in the ocean and kill him there.


http://www.fwweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tony-soprano-1024x722.jpg

[HawkMasterson1999]

LOL ^ thanks for that.

[mefdinkins]

as BDA shows us in the other thread, there is no requirement of being nice to play the game.

are you inferring that BDA is not nice?

This is not RNF please remove your hate speech from server chat.

Are you saying all "not nice" players should be banned?

Additionally, would calling an entire guild "not nice" be not nice?

Are you saying you should be banned?

I agree - please ban Sylexis.

[khanable]

there is no requirement of being nice to play the game.

There is no requirement of being good at the game either, as evident by you during the eToV beta run.

Pretty sure you got salty and mean about it too.

Ban her imo since we're banning mean people

[Grubbz]

Make a bard, aoe kite everything in freeport, when noobs try to loot items report them for ninja looting.

/thread

[Kekephee]

Frankly I don't think it's a bannable offense, or at least it really should not be. You never know if someone went LD or not, at that point it's a matter of whether you'd like to be nice to the person swapping characters/coming back from LD or not, and as BDA shows us in the other thread, there is no requirement of being nice to play the game.

VICTIM BLAMING

[Glenzig]

Make a bard, aoe kite everything in freeport, when noobs try to loot items report them for ninja looting.

/thread

This.

[Sylexis]

I'll bite, since I did derail the thread in the first place, even though this was a sub topic of said second thread.


are you inferring that BDA is not nice?

This is not RNF please remove your hate speech from server chat.

Are you saying all "not nice" players should be banned?

Additionally, would calling an entire guild "not nice" be not nice?

Are you saying you should be banned?

I agree - please ban Sylexis.

I am inferring that the thread should have been in RnF to begin with because it is exactly that, a rant and flame against a player.

From the outside it looks like bda steamrolled a player for a mob before the bda enchanter that was going to loot the drop was for was even in the zone. Why else wouldn't the enchanter be in the exp group, there were only 5 bda in zone. You can't say you're saving the server by alerting them of some scammer because you've gotten them banned, and IF they start playing again it will be on a new character anyway.

I'm not entirely sure why people seem to think they should be praised for acting like a dick, whether they were right or wrong is beside the point.

[Juevento]

LEARN TO F'ING READ. BOTH ENCHANTERS WERE IN THE ZONE WHEN THE MOB POPPED!

[mefdinkins]

VICTIM BLAMING

I agree Kekephee, people like Sylexis are the scourge of the Norrathian Community.

Not only was an innocent enchanter, Pricila, victimized through the initial ninja looting. She has now been re-victimized by blaming her and through inappropriate post-ninja looting behavior by individuals like Sylexis. It is traumatic enough to be ninja-looted. The appropriate response should be to lend support to a victim of ninja-looting. It is atrocious for individuals like Sylexis to put blame on the victim and re-traumatize them.

This blaming attitude marginalizes the survivor and makes it more difficult for victims of ninja-looting to come forward in the future. By engaging in victim-blaming attitudes, Norrath allows ninja-looters to perpetuate abuse while avoiding accountability for their actions.

I agree with what everyone has said. Sylexis should def be banned.

[Kekephee]

From the outside it looks like bda steamrolled a player for a mob before the bda enchanter that was going to loot the drop was for was even in the zone.


Not trying to be mean or anything, you're a cool cat and I don't want to be insulting, but you should know more about what you're talking about before you talk about things if you're going to cast aspersions on guilds and talk shit. Pricilla was in the zone well before any of the rest of us because she had been watching for VT pop for quite some time. You clearly read only the posts that the ninjalooter made excusing herself for ninjalooting and none of ours. It's all over the thread, plain as day, black and white, Pricilla was in the zone, the fact that she was not in the exp group was a) IRRELEVANT b) an oversight caused by some reason, I don't know and I don't care.

[Wrench]

yay, another thread for bda to mrglfrg in!

someone send out a raid alert!

[Sylexis]

LEARN TO F'ING READ. BOTH ENCHANTERS WERE IN THE ZONE WHEN THE MOB POPPED!

Just to be sure, I went back to the thread and read it over carefully, I read all the way up to page 8, the only time Pricila (sp?) was even mentioned was by the offender saying that Pricila was in zone in page 3 or 4, not saying it was an enchanter, or that it was the intended recipient of the epic piece. How far exactly do I have to dig into the thread before the full disclosure of the event happens? You want the truth of the offense known by the first post, but by page 8 the event is still being pieced together.

Are you sure you don't mean learn to assume, and not learn to read?


And Kekephee... dammit knock it off I'm trying to have a serious conversation here but you're dissolving me into giggling fits with your posts.

[Kekephee]

yay, another thread for bda to mrglfrg in!

someone send out a raid alert!



We should just stand here and let a bunch of people who can't read jack each other off about what bad guys we are for getting ninjalooted and asking the GMs to do something about it

[Cecily]

You lose looting rights when you log off, imo.

Thanks for your opinion. It's wrong though. You don't.

[Kekephee]

Just to be sure, I went back to the thread and read it over carefully, I read all the way up to page 8,

There's your problem, you've got about another 50 pages of people asking "why wasn't the enchanter in the group?" before the fact that Pri was camping the mob too is discovered

My recommendation: just don't bother, the whole thread is terrible

[Kekephee]

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120523130824/gameofthrones/images/5/59/Jaqen_H'ghar_2x8_1.png

SAY THREE NAMES AND JAQEN H'GHAR WILL KILL THEM


1) THAT FUCKING THREAD
2) JUSTIN BIEBER
3) JUSTIN BIEBER AGAIN

[Wrench]

We should just stand here and let a bunch of people who can't read jack each other off about what bad guys we are for getting ninjalooted and asking the GMs to do something about it

nope, you prob did the right thing in game

although it really would have taken you 10 seconds to keep the corpse locked and ask the other enchanter their intentions

but as it stands chest is a drama monger, and the rest of the bda on these forums seems to fall right in step with him

carry on though, its annoying but entertaining

[Kekephee]

nope, you prob did the right thing in game

although it really would have taken you 10 seconds to keep the corpse locked and ask the other enchanter their intentions

but as it stands chest is a drama monger, and the rest of the bda on these forums seems to fall right in step with him

carry on though, its annoying but entertaining

I can't argue about Chest being a drama monger


Because he'll GUILDREMOVE ME AND ORDER ALL BDA TO SEVER TIES FOREVER FOR USING HIS NAME

[Sylexis]

Not trying to be mean or anything, you're a cool cat and I don't want to be insulting, but you should know more about what you're talking about before you talk about things if you're going to cast aspersions on guilds and talk shit. Pricilla was in the zone well before any of the rest of us because she had been watching for VT pop for quite some time. You clearly read only the posts that the ninjalooter made excusing herself for ninjalooting and none of ours. It's all over the thread, plain as day, black and white, Pricilla was in the zone, [b]the fact that she was not in the exp group was a) IRRELEVANT b) an oversight caused by some reason, I don't know and I don't care.

And I admit I'm trying deliberately to play devils advocate here, but the above underlined comment, unless I am in BDA and know who Pricilla is, until page 3-4 I don't even know this person exists, it isn't black and white and all over that thread, though it may seem so to you as you know the parties involved. (Edit: Or at least by page 50 which I am not going to read to!)

BDA is coming off in the first few pages like they jumped over someone waiting on their shot at an epic mob (by carefully and only following the server rules), and then are laughing and mocking the person and rubbing it in their face that they got them banned as soon as the person made a mistake.

I admit I couldn't resist the jab in this thread (which is talking about that thread directly) about the difference between what's being a nice person and what's against the rules.

[moklianne]

nope, you prob did the right thing in game

although it really would have taken you 10 seconds to keep the corpse locked and ask the other enchanter their intentions

but as it stands chest is a drama monger, and the rest of the bda on these forums seems to fall right in step with him

carry on though, its annoying but entertaining

Its been quite entertaining.

[Supaskillz]

Basically people should just assume don't loot shit you didn't kill. I would think that this sort of respect for others would be assumed for most people.

If you really think it is going to rot and the people who killed it are no where to be found I would wait at the corpse until it's about 10 seconds from rotting before you loot it. If the people who killed it are around and you think it might rot, use your words and confirm.

[Laugher]

I don't ever rule lawyer but I think it may be worthwhile to mention here this snippet from the stickied PnP at the top of these forums.

I am not a member of BDA, but this argument seems redundant given the PnP and the ruling Derubael made. Allow me to elaborate.

To nail this point into the ground further:

Note: A "group" in this case is defined as a party of one or more characters that are united in a common belief or goal and are capable of completing that goal.

Project 1999 Staff will not be defining what constitutes a camp. Instead, Project 1999 Customer Service Staff will arbitrate spawn disputes on a per-case-basis. We [i]greatly encourage players to find their own resolution to spawn disputes, as the solution provided by the staff will at best be a win-lose situation, and possbily a lose-lose situation. No two decisions, even at the same 'camp', are guaranteed to be the same, as we will take into account multiple factors in making a determination on a 'camp'.

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'.

other ench didn't have a group there before BDA was my understanding, could not take the spawn by themselves, therefore when BDA showed up and could take it before other ench's group.. it became their camp then. By this ruling they were the group camping the mob.

by CSR intervention the deletion of the items from said ench should tell you that BDA was found in the right and ninja looting (at least in this situation by an unintended recipient of the loot ) was found to be in the wrong by CSR.

Am I missing something here? Was the other group there, was this ench able to solo a level 60 Verina Tomb?

*edit* woops wrong thread.. as for AC that is certainly a case-by-case scenario haha.

[jaybone]

are you inferring that BDA is not nice?

This is not RNF please remove your hate speech from server chat.

Are you saying all "not nice" players should be banned?

Additionally, would calling an entire guild "not nice" be not nice?

Are you saying you should be banned?

I agree - please ban Sylexis.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lif8omojMr1qebhzho1_400.jpg

[Glenzig]

Basically people should just assume don't loot shit you didn't kill. I would think that this sort of respect for others would be assumed for most people.

If you really think it is going to rot and the people who killed it are no where to be found I would wait at the corpse until it's about 10 seconds from rotting before you loot it. If the people who killed it are around and you think it might rot, use your words and confirm.

And then I pop my invis and make sure you get banned. You have taken my bait mortal!!!!

[SyanideGas]

I can't argue about Chest being a drama monger


Because he'll GUILDREMOVE ME AND ORDER ALL BDA TO SEVER TIES FOREVER FOR USING HIS NAME


You can't use the lords name in vain bro

[fadetree]

Thanks for your opinion. It's wrong though. You don't.

What are you basing that on?

[Cecily]

What are you basing yours on? It's absolutely ninjalooting. If you see something desirable rotting on the ground and take it without the permission of the person / group / raid that killed it, and they have a problem with that... you're a ninja looter. Their current presence in zone does not change the fact that you have no rights to the kill.

[fadetree]

What are you basing yours on? It's absolutely ninjalooting. If you see something desirable rotting on the ground and take it without the permission of the person / group / raid that killed it, and they have a problem with that... you're a ninja looter.

Oh, the way you came in and told me I was wrong I thought you must have had some actual backing. But you are just offering your opinion, as I was. OK, so noted.

Plus, you may not be aware of the actual discussion, pre derail...it was about somebody who actually logs all the way off for an alt to get the piece. We were not originally talking about the ninja loot thread issue. If someone comes along and sees a dead critter with no-one around, and he checks it and loots a valuable piece, is that ninja looting? This was the original question. In my opinion, as I said, you lose loot rights when you log off.

[Cecily]

I know what I'm talking about most of the time. I have no desire to research the incident where someone ninjaed a Verix medallion at KC zone in while the person who killed was switching characters. I really would love to you put your theory to test though. Snag someone's AC ring sometime.

Plus, you may not be aware of the actual discussion, pre derail...it was about somebody who actually logs all the way off for an alt to get the piece. We were not originally talking about the ninja loot thread issue.

That's exactly what I'm discussing, not the white knights' Verina kill.

[fadetree]

I'm not asking you to. You felt like you should tell me I'm wrong. Ok, your opinion noted. Unless someone gives sufficient shits to research it, there we stand.

[lecompte]

.... you talk about things if you're going to cast aspersions on guilds and talk shit.
Aspersions is a good word.

I really would love to you put your theory to test though. Snag someone's AC ring sometime.

SHOTS FIRED. Me thinks Cecily is bored at work and needs to get some forum action going to amuse.

[Cecily]

I'm not asking you to. You felt like you should tell me I'm wrong. Ok, your opinion noted. Unless someone gives sufficient shits to research it, there we stand.

That's not my opinion, you're wrong.

[deadlycupcakez]

This entire discussion of ninja looting is absurd.

It is part of playing a roleplaying game. A mob is being camped with a kill force en route while another group shows up and claims they should not have to wait on anyone.
however when the initial camper gets to the open corpse first and decides they should not have to wait on anyone either... all of a sudden the other group decides now everyone needs to wait on them - if a corpse is open it is free reign.. despite what the staff or any childish upper echelon guild says.

furthermore - the way aforementioned guild behaved throughout the rest of the acts was hilariously infantile.

[Grubbz]

This entire discussion of ninja looting is absurd.

It is part of playing a roleplaying game. A mob is being camped with a kill force en route while another group shows up and claims they should not have to wait on anyone.
however when the initial camper gets to the open corpse first and decides they should not have to wait on anyone either... all of a sudden the other group decides now everyone needs to wait on them - if a corpse is open it is free reign.. despite what the staff or any childish upper echelon guild says.

furthermore - the way aforementioned guild behaved throughout the rest of the acts was hilariously infantile.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS +1

[deadlycupcakez]

and then it became disgustingly infantile when they compared their situation TO FUCKING RAPE VICTIMS GTFO BDA

[Cecily]

if a corpse is open it is free reign.. despite what the staff ... says

But.. Nope. Not... no. Lol.

[fadetree]

That's not my opinion, you're wrong. My opinion is you're an asshole. See the difference? You can tell by the inflammatory remarks.

Wow, dude. Whatever, I'll certainly be adding you to my asshole list as well. Too bad, I don't know why you had to get so unpleasant about a simple opinion. I thought better of you.

[khanable]

if a corpse is open it is free reign.. despite what the staff

were you born retarded or is this something you've been working on

[deadlycupcakez]

yes cecily... yes.

[Cecily]

No, I'm not losing brain cells to that.

[deadlycupcakez]

i openly accuse the staff of being blatantly incorrect in their decision so that has absolutely no relevance to mental health?

[SyanideGas]

if a corpse is open it is free reign.. despite what the staff or any childish upper echelon guild says..

So if your friend drops his wallet and you take it, thats free reign too, right? Just because you can take something doesn't make it right.

[khanable]

i openly accuse the staff of being blatantly incorrect in their decision so that has absolutely no relevance to mental health?

denial

[deadlycupcakez]

So if your friend drops his wallet and you take it, thats free reign too, right? Just because you can take something doesn't make it right.

if my friend stole my wallet and claimed it was his and then dropped it then yes... thats free reign dollface

[Dweed]

The corpse belongs to the killer. Otherwise every dragon/god's nodrop class specific loot would be at risk of someone spam clicking the corpse.

[Wrench]

So if your friend drops his wallet and you take it, thats free reign too, right? Just because you can take something doesn't make it right.

i sometimes feel like phil connors reading these threads

[Cecily]

There's the question of whether or not it's right to take something on a server rules level and also a personal ethics level. Just because you can take something doesn't make it right to do so. Imagine if one guild killed all the raid mobs.

[deadlycupcakez]

correct. a combination of server rules and personal ethics. the guild that took the mob felt no moral obligation to the original camper of the mob, yet when the same lack of personal morals were imposed against them decided to throw their hands up to management and cry for help.

the consistency (both moral and server-legal) is not there... which is why the staffs ruling is horrendously incorrect and the inconsistency is very misleading to the rest of the servers population.

and no i saw your asshole comment. I decided to share when the guild began equating themselves to rape victims and i got very mad.

[Brut]

Hate how theres so many people who can't wrap their heads around this - you didn't kill it, stop worrying about it.

You either were part of killing the mob or you werent. If you werent, no nonsense about this or that matters - the drops belong to the party/guild/player that killed it, and it's up to them what happens to the drops since they're the ones who killed it. If it rots, it rots. Tough break, the mobs gonna respawn at some point. If you insist on coming up with excuses about how you can grab whatever, you're more than likely to A) waste staff time since they have to resolve your crap decision B) get yourself suspended.

Only confusing thing really is that the server rules thread has no mention of this whatsoever, albeit the staff afaik has always been following said rule.

[deadlycupcakez]

camps: you have a reasonable amount of time to kill your PH or camp mob from time of spawn before you give up your rights to the camp

loot: you have a reasonable amount of time to loot your corpse from time of kill before you give up your rights to the loot

if you need a specific player to get the loot, manage your kill group better and make sure they are in the group with the kill credit.

[Varsha]

So if your friend drops his wallet and you take it, thats free reign too, right? Just because you can take something doesn't make it right.

By logic, a wallet contains infos about the owner. So we can actually link it to someone and return it (assuming we feel nice today).

There is also the overall context of how things happen. If I drop my wallet in the street, didn't notice and a friend found it hours later (simply implying that we are not in each others sight) and didn't return it. It sucks but without me knowing it was that said "friend" who has my wallet (with my infos in it), its between the friend and his own concept of "the right thing to do".

Same situation without anything to trace back the wallet to the owner. Sucks but nothing can be done about it and I couldn't blame anyone for picking it up.

Same situation happens but you see the person picking it up. First, talk is always good. If there is infos in the wallet and the person doesn't want to give it to you, then go ahead, proceed to chop heads. But if there is no infos in the wallet and the person is not sure you are the one who dropped it. Its now a gray area.

That being said, a corpse without anyone near it doesn't have anything than a timer on it from my point of view. If I don't see dead bodies indicating a potential wipe. Then yes I do assume its open. A very confusing situation for people new to Everquest. :confused:

[rebeccablack]

if you need a specific player to get the loot, manage your kill group better and make sure they are in the group with the kill credit.
Crazy thought, but sometimes a group of players doesn't know for sure what a mob is going to drop. In those situations, sometimes a drop needs to be awarded to a player outside of the exp group.

[Daldaen]

Or maybe... You should only loot things you killed with your group or your guild. You shouldn't loot something killed by someone else's guild when you weren't invited or weren't told you may loot the mob they killed.

[deadlycupcakez]

but the fact is that the same moral integrity you force upon the individual, Daldaen, you are neglecting when it comes to the guild / group.

the group here was not invited by the initial camper of the mob to take the kill. if you want to argue that the group showed up with a force capable of killing the mob first, then you automatically submit to the argument that the looter of the corpse showed up to the open corpse first.

there cannot be two separate distinction of morals here.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Saraya camping for 2 minutes or 2 days is irrelevent. Chest not responding to private messages or tells in-game is irrelevent. Saraya having the force en route is irrelevent. Prisila not being in the kill group is irrelevent. Everything is irrelevent except this:

1: VT is a FFA mob, first come, first served.

2: BDA mobilized and engaged first.

3: BDA kills VT, all loot no-drop or tradeable is the propriety of BDA and they do whatever they want with it.

4: They decide to award it to Prisila.

5: Saraya spam-clicks a corpse containing the item that was decided by the owners of the corpse to be awarded to Prisila, loots it and gets banned.

This is text-book ninja looting. You can argue all you want about BDA being assholes or Chest being a douche, that's all opinions and emotional reasoning. Points 1 to 5 cannot be argued and that's what happened.

Erydan Ouragan <Random Acts>


This is why Prisila being in the kill group doesn't matter. If BDA decided to let the corpse rot or record themselves deleting the item and send the video to Saraya telling her "lol you'll never get your epic" they would be within their rights to do so. Supreme asshole move? Sure, but since it's THEIR kill, it's THEIR loot and if one of their lvl 1 chanter alt was logging on to loot the item, it would also be in their right to do so.

The corpse was never "open" because soon as the mob was dead, they decided to award the item to Prisila. Saraya decided to ninja it.

I know it sucks that Saraya is an underdog valiantly struggling against a giant like BDA with numbers, mobility and gear, but rules of ownership applies to everyone, from the casual gamer to the most powerful guild on the server.

Anyone calling a grey area on this issue makes an emotional judgement.

[deadlycupcakez]

This is why Prisila being in the kill group doesn't matter. If BDA decided to let the corpse rot or record themselves deleting the item and send the video to Saraya telling her "lol you'll never get your epic" they would be within their rights to do so. Supreme asshole move? Sure, but since it's THEIR kill, it's THEIR loot and if one of their lvl 1 chanter alt was logging on to loot the item, it would also be in their right to do so.

The corpse was never "open" because soon as the mob was dead, they decided to award the item to Prisila. Saraya decided to ninja it.

I know it sucks that Saraya is an underdog valiantly struggling against a giant like BDA with numbers, mobility and gear, but rules of ownership applies to everyone, from the casual gamer to the most powerful guild on the server.

Anyone calling a grey area on this issue makes an emotional judgement.

this is simply incorrect. the corpse opens up - the loot becomes FFA just like the mob opened up - the mob became FFA. I know it sucks that BDA is a slow giant struggling against Sarayas quick fingers, faster PC and vengeful motives, but newtons law of motion applies to everything, from the casual gamer to the most powerful guild on the server.

[Sylexis]

Anyone calling a grey area on this issue makes an emotional judgement.

I don't think anyone here is arguing the other thread (minus a few thread derails) The OP is asking if the same rules apply if someone logs off to switch characters, ergo leaving the mobs body unattended by someone else for an unknown period of time.

[Erydan Ouragan]

the group here was not invited by the initial camper of the mob to take the kill. if you want to argue that the group showed up with a force capable of killing the mob first, then you automatically submit to the argument that the looter of the corpse showed up to the open corpse first.

there cannot be two separate distinction of morals here.

That's a fallacy.

You assume that once the mob is dead, the first one that gets to loot can claim the item.

That's not how it works. When someone or a group kills a mob, all loot on it becomes their propriety and they can dispose of it as they see fit. Letting rot, deleting everything on it, logging an alt to come loot it or waiting for the loot timer to open so that someone outside the kill group, who was awarded the item, can loot it.

[lecompte]

Who is Erydan? I think I'm in love.

EDIT: Can you imagine the shitstorm if TMO and IB were ninja-ing gear from each others kills while loot is being divided? Would be havoc :)

[Softcore PK]

Erydan is right, guys. This isn't Sullon Zek.

[deadlycupcakez]

how is that fallacious?

the first one that gets to loot CAN claim the item, that is why the group that gets kill credit has 2 solid minutes to determine who in their group wants it. once the corpse opens up, anyone on the server can loot the corpse. you do not need to receive /consent from the kill credit holders in order to loot the corpse. if it was intended that way, it would have been designed that way.

and yes, it would be havoc between the two guilds. however saraya was not in a guild, playing a role on a roleplaying game and therefore does not need to abide by any guild standards. I will be redundant and repeat that the ruling made my the staff is INCORRECT and INVALID.

this same concept is relevant to logging off or switching to an alt.

[Erati]

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/i-feel-like-im-taking-crazy-pills.gif


what reading this thread feels like



I am sorry but no where in EQ land has it ever been OK to 'spam click' corpses around the feet of a group/guild of players who just finished the kill especially if you were not participating in ced kill ( with permission )

the biggest mistake that was made in the VT incident was Saraya not logging off after BDA killed VT. I mean what did they think would happen?

[Varsha]

I don't think anyone here is arguing the other thread (minus a few thread derails) The OP is asking if the same rules apply if someone logs off to switch characters, ergo leaving the mobs body unattended by someone else for an unknown period of time.

Its where Im confused honestly.

What is this rule that you don't loot shit you didn't kill anyway? Did I miss it in the rules section or is Everquest really so different than it was 12 years ago?:confused:

I can understand/respect the whole idea of not looting raid mobs but what of random corpses laying around in newbie area? No ones around and theres bonechips on a corpse (lets say its at 3 minutes on timer) and I could use to summon pets. Let it rot? Really? >.>

[deadlycupcakez]

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/i-feel-like-im-taking-crazy-pills.gif


what reading this thread feels like



I am sorry but no where in EQ land has it ever been OK to 'spam click' corpses around the feet of a group/guild of players who just finished the kill especially if you were not participating in ced kill ( with permission )

the biggest mistake that was made in the VT incident was Saraya not logging off after BDA killed VT. I mean what did they think would happen?

BDA took kill from saraya - saraya takes loot from BDA. only saraya gets punished.

[Garmr]

Common fucking sense and decency! Where have you gone!

[Erati]

how is that fallacious?

that is why the group that gets kill credit has 2 solid minutes to determine who in their group wants it. once the corpse opens up, anyone on the server can loot the corpse. you do not need to receive /consent from the kill credit holders in order to loot the corpse.

bold'd and big'd to highlight the silliness of this reasoning

2 WHOLE minutes eh...that seems like plenty of time to decide loot that people sometimes wait MONTHS for

get outta here lol

[Erati]

BDA took kill from saraya - saraya takes loot from BDA. only saraya gets punished.

lol BDA didnt take shit from Sarayna...

they showed up and killed the mob while Sara sat there and twiddled thumbs hoping their team would show up

I am sorry but that is EQ, first come first serve ( as in first to show up with the force to kill and engage the mob )

[khanable]

I will be redundant and repeat that the ruling made my the staff is INCORRECT and INVALID.

Except.. It's not

[deadlycupcakez]

bold'd and big'd to highlight the silliness of this reasoning

2 WHOLE minutes eh...that seems like plenty of time to decide loot that people sometimes wait MONTHS for

get outta here lol

if a guild or someone in it has been waiting 2 months for loot the decision should have already been made on who gets it. rolls dont take 2 minutes.

[deadlycupcakez]

lol BDA didnt take shit from Sarayna...

they showed up and killed the mob while Sara sat there and twiddled thumbs hoping their team would show up

I am sorry but that is EQ, first come first serve ( as in first to show up with the force to kill and engage the mob )

i agree. sara came first to the open corpse and was served first.

[khanable]

i agree. sara came first to the open corpse and was served first.

Which is against server rules?

Is this the part you're not understanding?

[deadlycupcakez]

no i understand that was deemed by the staff as against server rules. but it shouldnt be... again as i repeat myself.

why is it against server rules to loot something after giving a fair amount of time to those with kill credit, but it is fine for a group to take the mob with the loot from someone who is camping it, without giving them fair amount of time to rally forces. first come first serve? then that is your answer for taking the FFA loot as well.

[Erati]

if a guild or someone in it has been waiting 2 months for loot the decision should have already been made on who gets it. rolls dont take 2 minutes.

right the decision was made and the loot from the corpse was jacked the first second it was open to the person the loot was awarded too by the people who actually killed the mob


the mechanic of corpses 'opening' up is because well exp groups are small ( 6 people) and raids well are large ( >6 people)

so many times during a raid, there will be loot that is required to be looted by people 'shocking i know' outside of the exp group.

[Glenzig]

I have a feeling there will be more cases of ninja looting in the near future. It seems some people don't want to accept the rules.

[Laugher]

inb4rnf

pretty good will farell gif lol

[khanable]

no i understand that was deemed by the staff as against server rules. but it shouldnt be... again as i repeat myself.

why is it against server rules to loot something after giving a fair amount of time to those with kill credit, but it is fine for a group to take the mob with the loot from someone who is camping it, without giving them fair amount of time to rally forces. first come first serve? then that is your answer for taking the FFA loot as well.

Well it is against the rules, and doing so will get you suspended.

So fucking deal with it.gif

[Erati]

no i understand that was deemed by the staff as against server rules. but it shouldnt be... again as i repeat myself.

why is it against server rules to loot something after giving a fair amount of time to those with kill credit, but it is fine for a group to take the mob with the loot from someone who is camping it, without giving them fair amount of time to rally forces. first come first serve? then that is your answer for taking the FFA loot as well.

you are wrong because you cannot camp Epic mobs like VT.

she has NO placeholders, and she has NO set spawn time.

Its random, and thusly cannot be 'claimed'.

Much like the randomness of an outdoor spawn, you have to get FTE to state your claim on Verina Tomb.

She is not a camp.


Had Saraya been a cleric clearing Lord Gimblox's PHs for hours and hours then suddenly BDA scumbags roll in when Gimblox pops and jack the spawn, then let the corpse sit there while they run a cleric to come loot the ring during which is Saraya jacks the ring when corpse opens....then your crazy out of left field claims might have some sort of basis in Norrathian reality.

However, that was not the case and read what I wrote.

[Sidelle]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/540/686/696.gif

[Sylexis]

I'd ask everyone to stay on topic but that would sadly only make things even worse wouldn't it.


Its where Im confused honestly.

What is this rule that you don't loot shit you didn't kill anyway? Did I miss it in the rules section or is Everquest really so different than it was 12 years ago?:confused:

I can understand/respect the whole idea of not looting raid mobs but what of random corpses laying around in newbie area? No ones around and theres bonechips on a corpse (lets say its at 3 minutes on timer) and I could use to summon pets. Let it rot? Really? >.>

Scenario 1: Mob killer is not present
Right so it's pretty easy to think someone has killed Trashmob_01, and ran off, or went LD, and whatever they considered trash the next man thinks might be handy to be able to afford his next spells. In that scenario no one is getting banned, nor are they doing anything wrong, heck I know I've seen 2-3 newbies fighting over trash loot opening up so they can get their hands on whatever is up for grabs, still no one at fault, may the fastest click win. (Edit: I mean come on, how many of us run through a newbie zone leaving destruction in our wake trying to get our OT hammers to work).

Scenario 2: Mob killer is present but item is (seemingly) trash
Now then that scale slowly slides over to more valuable and useful things until we get up to something useful. I'll use my own experience last week as an example. I was killing in Loio sarnak fort, lazily looking for a bracer of the hidden while I waited for the chancellor to spawn. A lowbie iksar necro starts running around in the room picking up all the crap I'm letting rot, then thanks me out of the blue for letting him ninja the non drop candlestick off of something that was apparently a necro quest piece. If I had a necro alt on the way in guild chat, according to the rules I should be able to get him banned for looting something that belonged to me without permission. Never mind that I never warned him it was spoken for, that I had someone on the way, or that I wasn't locking the corpse down in any way.

Now in the VT thread you'd have to be an idiot to expect the item not to be spoken for, the mob killer is present and the item is not trash. But other than epic mobs and obscenely obvious things like scenario one, everything could stand to have a bit of due diligence. The necro who took the item off that mob should have held the corpse open and tossed me a tell just to be sure... If AC corpse is sitting suspiciously deserted in the middle of nowhere, are there appropriately leveled players in the zone that could have killed it, or are you in a safe enough place that you can sit on the corpse until it's got 10 seconds to poof before looting. Due diligence. If at any point your gut feels like you're getting off like stealing candy from a baby... due diligence, take a second, check your surroundings and cover your ass.

[moklianne]

I like how not only did the main thread about Saraya not get dumped into RnF, there is now spillage into this one.

[deadlycupcakez]

it has relevance to both the server and the initial questions asked

[Erati]

I think deadlycupcakez = Saraya's troll account !

[deadlycupcakez]

I think deadlycupcakez = Saraya's troll account !

[Thulack]

What it comes down to is People shouldnt loot shit if they didnt kill it. Simple as that.

[NegaStoat]

Edited - the link for what I was looking for was provided. I was entirely wrong. I should have researched it myself. yes, I feel that burning shame.

[lecompte]

I'd like to see an official staff member response on the issue of a mob opening up at the 4:59 timer on a solo mob, personally. The previous thread with the enchanter ninja looting was an obvious case.

But let's go back to the case of camping an AC ring. The player kills it, logs off, and logs on an alt to pick it up. The player doing this is solo - there is no group, there is no group member to 'lock' the mob's loot window to make the exchange.

Another player sees what's up and yanks the ring due to poor load timing of the first player. Okay, so, answer me this. On an old Retail server like Fenin Ro or Brell Serilis, what wold happen? What would a CSR exactly do to handle this situation if the first player reported it?

I will tell you what they'd do. They would laugh their ass off at the first player's misfortune and quote that when the mob opened up with NO ONE AROUND, it was FFA.

If you can truthfully state that you had a similar situation of a dead mob + no one around being reported against someone looting, and their being successful, I'd love to see it in print.

If the problem comes up, petition it then. Don't try and get the official layout on rules now so people can do what can only be considered a douche bag move. Different CSR will react different based on the slightest difference in situation.


Was NO ONE around? Was there no one around for a min while the corpse was still locked but then someone got on? How do know that person isn't the person who killed it and just went LD for a minute? How about lets not play this game on how much I can massage the rules until I find out the fine line where I can be an asshole.

[Grubbz]

Once a corpse opens up its free for all, deal with it kids.

[NegaStoat]

Edited - I was stupid. the below link is what I should have read.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...619#post489619

[Blade]

Hey fuckheads. You don't just take shit just because the corpse is open. If the corpse is open, try this:

/say Anyone mind if I loot x item?

[Erati]

well on live I had a lvl 5 gnome necromancer named Ganaber waltz up to Lord Nagafen's corpse after my raid had killed it, bend over loot it and gate LOL

lvl 5 !!!!! wtf

You see back then without teamspeak etc having to type out the items that dropped, take tells from the 30+ people there and figure out the /random order was all done by hand and time consuming

no one thought to protect the corpse because well people didnt lurk to steal items off rotting corpses....except lvl 5 gnome necros named Ganaber

needless to say GMs summon'd him back and handed us the loot

[Blade]

And killing the Ancient Cyclops, leaving the Ring on the corpse while you log to another character to loot it is basically the same as ground transferring in every way. If someone finds your ground transfer before you get there, you lose it.

[NegaStoat]

Edited - I was stupid. the below link is what I should have read. I have sinned, and expect no forgiveness.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...619#post489619

[zanderklocke]

I just imagine people moving mule armies to AC so they never have to give up camp and can log over to mule to loot.

I would think that if you are switching characters, not going LD, to loot, you probably lose rights to loot. You probably need to have at least one individual who killed the mob in the zone in order for loot to not go FFA. Furthermore, you certainly are giving up the camp if you log over to loot.

[Erati]

even tho you may lose 'rights' by the law of the land, its still pretty fucking easy to alert those around you what your intentions are

most people 9/10 will let you do your thing since you had been at the camp and for all intensive purposes 'marked' the loot rights as your own

I did the log over to an alt thing for one of my jboots, and was not concerned about ninja looters what so ever hehe


when did blue become so toxic, WTB Project 2009 emulator

[Thulack]

Hey fuckheads. You don't just take shit just because the corpse is open. If the corpse is open, try this:

/say Anyone mind if I loot x item?

I tried to put it nice but yeah this. :D

[lecompte]

Furthermore, you certainly are giving up the camp if you log over to loot.

[NegaStoat]

Edited - I was stupid. the below link is what I should have read. I have sinned, and expect no forgiveness.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...619#post489619

The point still stands though. Since accounts are free to make on the server, a jerk really could make infinite alts to grab Rings from rotting corpses of the AC camps. They kill it, log, log on an alt, and if someone loots that ring it equals a ban under the above rules.

Why ever give up the camp? Sounds classic to me.

[lecompte]

I disagree.
Ftfy so you don't seem like an arrogant ass.

Can we move this to RnF yet? I'm getting a little testy.

[fadetree]

Getting? It got nasty a while back. And I think the 'highly educated individual' was the person below the line, not the poster.

[lecompte]

heh Fadetree -- It went into semantics, then sophistry, now we are saying nu uhhhh, you're wrong -- but still using 15 words to say it and proping up our nu uhhhh with self promotion and heresay.

EDIT: Back in my day, I was on very good terms with server staff, having a reputation for forthright honesty, and when I petitioned, shit got done. Soooo. Obviously... I'm in the right.

[Sylexis]

heh Fadetree -- It went into semantics, then sophistry, now we are saying nu uhhhh, you're wrong -- but still using 15 words to say it and proping up our nu uhhhh with self promotion and heresay.

Best post of the day.

[Varsha]

The fact this game is as old as it is and has been emulated this long for this particular server makes the majority of you look incredibly stupid for not knowing how it all works and is supposed to work by now.


I started playing here 2 weeks ago. I think I went through quite a lot of information from this forum and elsewhere, trying to get up to date as much as I could. I haven't seen any specific rules about not looting from mobs you didn't kill. If there is one, please point it out to me.

With boxing not allowed, why would they make it ok to log out and relog an alt camped close?

Everquest was a game of cooperation and common sense when I left 12 years ago. It really changed that much?

[Blade]

Here's a rule:

If you think what you're about to do is going to make you look like a dick, don't do it.

[Sylexis]

I started playing here 2 weeks ago. I think I went through quite a lot of information from this forum and elsewhere, trying to get up to date as much as I could. I haven't seen any specific rules about not looting from mobs you didn't kill. If there is one, please point it out to me.

With boxing not allowed, why would they make it ok to log out and relog an alt camped close?

Everquest was a game of cooperation and common sense when I left 12 years ago. It really changed that much?

That is what the original OP was asking, and I think most people are saying it's fair game at that point, though you can certainly be a jerk about it in some places when you know for a fact that you're absconding with someone's hard work.

[Supaskillz]

Ok I missed like 5 pages of posts and I don't understand how this is still going. You kill it you loot it, you don't kill it don't loot it.

Surely our efforts would be better spent speculating on who rmt'd, or what counts as stalling a raid mob. Get it together folks.

[Varsha]

You kill it you loot it, you don't kill it don't loot it.


THERE IS A TIMER ON THE CORPSE --- WHERE does it says that we cant loot it if its rotting? If there is a clear rule, please link it . Otherwise its just down to common sense and not being a dick.

Yes I want to loot all the rotting corpse around if its trash to others or if theres no one around. It means items to vendor, money to buy spells, spells to help the groups and eventually help ANYONE faster, sooner and better.

I simply rather sell the junk and eventually give it back to the community (by lvling faster so I can rez and help people around) than letting random lonely corpses feeding their junk to the great Rot God. :p

[Thulack]

THERE IS A TIMER ON THE CORPSE --- WHERE does it says that we cant loot it if its rotting? If there is a clear rule, please link it . Otherwise its just down to common sense and not being a dick.

Yes I want to loot all the rotting corpse around if its trash to others or if theres no one around. It means items to vendor, money to buy spells, spells to help the groups and eventually help ANYONE faster, sooner and better.

I simply rather sell the junk and eventually give it back to the community (by lvling faster so I can rez and help people around) than letting random lonely corpses feeding their junk to the great Rot God. :p

Is that not enough?

[Wrench]

Ftfy so you don't seem like an arrogant ass.

Can we move this to RnF yet? I'm getting a little testy.

wow your stupid

might wanna understand what someone is typing before you start calling them an arrogant ass there champ

[Sylexis]

Excellent post.

Nice info, which frankly should be stuck on the wiki somewhere and not buried mid thread in the middle of an old post.

/thread

[Yonkec]

VT is killed every week.
VT drops a book for enchanter epic.

Severilous is killed every week.
Severilous drops green scales for the warrior epic.

When Severilous spawns, do you think any guild asks the random warrior in zone if he was camping it before they call in their raid force?

The answer is no. This server is the way it is. It will not change. Join a guild that fights for FTE for mobs for their members or don't.

Rules for looting is completely separate. If you kill the mob (with proper FTE) you own the loot rights, end of discussion. Only a petition to a GM can change that fact.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=489619#post489619

in that link, Rogaen specifically states the difference between raiding and ninja looting having nothing to do with each other. Raid disputes is a raid policy discussion. Ninja looting is a server rule and if broken is punishable for that individual.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=635790&postcount=19

Xasten's confirmation of the rulings with no further disputes.

Anyways, deadlycupcakes keeps trying to bring up things like morals, even-steven, or two wrongs type arguments. Doesn't matter on this server. There are rules. If caught abusing said rules there are consequences.

It doesn't matter that BDA assembled a force and engaged first in legit fashion. The server rules support this. What matters is that the ninja looter did violate a server rule, and that rule violation was caught and there were repurcussions.

The exact same thing would happen to anyone looting anything that they did not kill. Lowered expectations for smaller scenarios would come into question for punishments (like I doubt a gm is gonna ban a newb for lootin a rusty spear off a decaying skeleton corpse when the corpse opens, but action will be taken on lvl 60 mob corpses).

/thread

But most of us don't possess the necessary neural connections to comprehend that, so, please continue.

As Cecily more eloquently posted, you are absolutely free to disagree, but you are not allowed to act surprised when you get banned.

[Glenzig]

Haynar posted this in the original thread.

Total BS and you know it.

If not your kill, and killer chooses to let it rot, then it rots.

This isn't EQlive.

And for each person that thinks its ok to ninja loot, knock urself out. I hope they ban all your accounts.

So a developer has spoken. So it is written, so it shall be done.

[Yonkec]

Haynar posted this in the original thread.



So a developer has spoken. So it is written, so it shall be done.

Have you met these intelligent individuals? I expect half of them to tell Haynar and Rogean that it is just their "opinion", and there is still nothing wrong with it.

[deadlycupcakez]

*wink*

[Rourk]

Once a corpse opens up its free for all, deal with it kids.

Quoted for blatant being wrong

/Haynar'd

edit: oh forgot: deal with it kidz

[Ahldagor]

VT is killed every week.
VT drops a book for enchanter epic.

Severilous is killed every week.
Severilous drops green scales for the warrior epic.

When Severilous spawns, do you think any guild asks the random warrior in zone if he was camping it before they call in their raid force?

The answer is no. This server is the way it is. It will not change. Join a guild that fights for FTE for mobs for their members or don't.

Rules for looting is completely separate. If you kill the mob (with proper FTE) you own the loot rights, end of discussion. Only a petition to a GM can change that fact.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=489619#post489619

in that link, Rogaen specifically states the difference between raiding and ninja looting having nothing to do with each other. Raid disputes is a raid policy discussion. Ninja looting is a server rule and if broken is punishable for that individual.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=635790&postcount=19

Xasten's confirmation of the rulings with no further disputes.

Anyways, deadlycupcakes keeps trying to bring up things like morals, even-steven, or two wrongs type arguments. Doesn't matter on this server. There are rules. If caught abusing said rules there are consequences.

It doesn't matter that BDA assembled a force and engaged first in legit fashion. The server rules support this. What matters is that the ninja looter did violate a server rule, and that rule violation was caught and there were repurcussions.

The exact same thing would happen to anyone looting anything that they did not kill. Lowered expectations for smaller scenarios would come into question for punishments (like I doubt a gm is gonna ban a newb for lootin a rusty spear off a decaying skeleton corpse when the corpse opens, but action will be taken on lvl 60 mob corpses).


good to know that a small handful of people that play actually read the rules and regulations for the project

[Cecily]

Fadetree, I'd like to apologize to you. I was afraid your opinion would be taken as fact by people reading this thread, and I wanted to clear it up that's absolutely not going to be tolerated on this server. By staff or players. Disagree at your own risk.

[radditsu]

You're an idiot.

(This was my 1000th post, since RnF doesn't count. Seems fine)

Welcome brother!

[fadetree]

Fadetree, I'd like to apologize to you. I was afraid your opinion would be taken as fact by people reading this thread, and I wanted to clear it up that's absolutely not going to be tolerated on this server. By staff or players. Disagree at your own risk.

Np, man, accepted. There was a lot of emotion coming from the other thread that I just got run over by. I was trying to make a technical point about my own opinion, but in the exact wrong place and time. Just to clear things up, I do not support nor would I do anything like grabbing a ground swap and scooting or something from an unattended corpse that had any value.

[Stonecrush]

1 2 3... 12 pages of people deciding on whether to be a douche bag or not?

A person takes the time to camp/kill a mob for loot, switch to an alt to grab the item and it's debatable on whether someone else other than the intended person by the original camper would NOT be at fault to loot the item?

Really? Really...

You know they dealt with this by chopping off hands and feet back in he day.

The thought should not even enter the mind of the offending looter. I use offending because it is an offense to believe the item belonged to the offender in the first place.

If you really can't see the difference between a rusty scimitar and a ring of the ancients then you need to grow up and have more responsibility.

This isn't a court of law, there are no precedents that will be laid out, this is a moral court of the obvious. You OBVIOUSLY should NOT take stuff that does NOT belong to you. Do the work and earn the crap. Don't be a douche.

Quick someone make that guild tag. "Don't Be a Douche".

Threads like these make me shake my head. The OP's question is fine but to take it to this level.

[khanable]

IDK what sort of shitty forum settings you guys are using but I see 8 pages

get on my level

[Thulack]

IDK what sort of shitty forum settings you guys are using but I see 8 pages

get on my level

Tell me your secrets oh wise one!
But seriously User CP options only gives up to 10 post a page and i'm still at page 15. I need my forumquesting stepped up.

[khanable]

Odd, I'm on forum default - I guess I used a higher option before the great forum revamp and "oh fuck put it back"-vamp. I guess my settings linger on?

[Heebo]

Odd, I'm on forum default - I guess I used a higher option before the great forum revamp and "oh fuck put it back"-vamp. I guess my settings linger on?

I think it's incentive for people with pre nerf forum accounts to not get banned.

[Thulack]

Odd, I'm on forum default - I guess I used a higher option before the great forum revamp and "oh fuck put it back"-vamp. I guess my settings linger on?

i did too but somehow still down to 10. /shrug

[Heebo]

If you go into and save your settings now it will revert back to 10 ppp. Don't touch it if you currently have 20 ppp!

[fishingme]

Forum homepage says trying to emulate classic experience. Loot timer was up its Ffa. You can't compare raid mob rulesets here with group mobs. Gms on live said once timer hits public access its Ffa. Gms here are far too raid/large guild centric, but can't blame them for having their own chars in any of those guilds. If bra changer was there the entire time then he should of been grouped. Bda making me like tmo more each day.

[Stonecrush]

Forum homepage says trying to emulate classic experience. Loot timer was up its Ffa. You can't compare raid mob rulesets here with group mobs. Gms on live said once timer hits public access its Ffa. Gms here are far too raid/large guild centric, but can't blame them for having their own chars in any of those guilds. If bra changer was there the entire time then he should of been grouped. Bda making me like tmo more each day.

How about if you did NOT kill the mob presume you're not the intended looter.
If you cannot tell the difference between a crush bone orc corpse or Quilmane. Then it's obvious you need to go back to WoW. Where all the I'm out for me only people breed.

The game isn't about you, it's about the community and being apart of something that is supposed to be fun.

I feel so bad for GM's if this is the idea of even 10% of the server.

[khanable]

I think it's incentive for people with pre nerf forum accounts to not get banned.

I'm hip without trying!

[arsenalpow]

IDK what sort of shitty forum settings you guys are using but I see 8 pages

get on my level

Srsly. People need to step their forum game up.

[fishingme]

How about if you did NOT kill the mob presume you're not the intended looter.
If you cannot tell the difference between a crush bone orc corpse or Quilmane. Then it's obvious you need to go back to WoW. Where all the I'm out for me only people breed.

The game isn't about you, it's about the community and being apart of something that is supposed to be fun.

I feel so bad for GM's if this is the idea of even 10% of the server.

You're joking right? This server is all about the me me me people.if it wasn't then bdawould of respected the unguilded chanters time more. But a note in the matter which I find dumb is the person getting banned for public loot corpse. Shit I was camping quillmane for my mages epic on live Nd some dick stole the mob from me and called his friend over to loot the body I ninjaed it once corpse timer went public. I received no penalty from that. It's ridiculous that as much work is being put into this served to emulate classic it still doesn't do t co ommunity

[Man0warr]

Stop posting, you type like a 5 year old.

[Stonecrush]

You're joking right? This server is all about the me me me people.if it wasn't then bdawould of respected the unguilded chanters time more. But a note in the matter which I find dumb is the person getting banned for public loot corpse. Shit I was camping quillmane for my mages epic on live Nd some dick stole the mob from me and called his friend over to loot the body I ninjaed it once corpse timer went public. I received no penalty from that. It's ridiculous that as much work is being put into this served to emulate classic it still doesn't do t co ommunity

Okay stop for a second, and make your point in a clear manner. I speak (write) with experience on lacking an ability to type when annoyed.

Back to the topic of unlocked npc corpse loot may be a grey area for GM's but as a community it's a big douche move. You win some and lose some on mobs, if you didn't kill the mob then NINJAing the mob is NOT the answer.

My Story for you.
I had a friend who was working on his Cleric epic. He obtained his 4 Pearlescent Fragments in sky fire to spawn Ragefire (took a week then.). This is for his final hit and 1 or 2 steps from his Rez stick. During the battle, Talendar added or was pulled (it was chaotic) and caused the raid force to have an issue with Ragefire. Talendar died and the opposing raid force killed Ragefire. A member of the other raid force looted the heart and destroyed it in anger over "missing out" on Talendar. There was massive backlash over that move and the drama caused makes this thread (after OP) and the BDA event seem like a bunch of non sense.

I know my story doesn't fully apply to P99 or directly to ninjaing an open corpse but it's a good story to not being a douche and it did end well. The toon that destroyed the heart ended up helping my friend to get the Pearlescent Fragments again. Because it was the right thing to do and after all it is just a game. Being a douche was not a cool plan. I feel like this is one of my kids books and I've reached he end...

The point of all of this nonsense? It says in the rules DON'T BE A JERK... Just use your best judgement and don't listen to the greed. It will alienate you so fast as the word spreads.

As for the BDA incident, here's a potential path to take.
Eample:"Hey BDA, when this guy spawns again, would you mind helping me out? I'd really appreciate the assistance."
Usually people are pretty cool about friendly people asking for assistance.

Finally, if you wouldn't want it done to you, then don't do it to someone else. Common sense, I know it's a difficult concept but it's a practical guide.

Additionally if someone screws you out of a Quilmane on P1999, I'll come help you spawn it again and again for your cloak. Because I am not a doucher and I don't hold grudges.

Sincerly,
I'm to old for this shit.

[Locust]

contested mobs are fte. ninja looting is punishable.

if you don't like it you can get out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZZqDJXOVg)

[Duckwalk]

If this was the real world and someone was waiting hours/days in line for something, you'd wait for them or come back another time.

However, as this is EQ the rules state that mobs such as this are first to engage.

Ironically in this case, its BDA (the guild that campaigned for a more relaxed /casual friendly raid scene in light of larger more dedicated guilds steamrolling over them and getting FTE) who does the exact same thing to unguilded chanter.

That said after the mob was killed it was absolutely ninja looting. Doesn't change the fact that BDA /Chest are hypocrites and assholes in this scenario.

[Tokai Saikutsu]

If you couldnt swap toons and loot the ac before it goes public, You need to upgrade your 286 pc and go to atleast 14400 baud modem .....

I always let the next in line know what im doing, i never had a problem yet. If im getting the drop for another account, ill have someone else loot it for me .....

[fadetree]

If you couldnt swap toons and loot the ac before it goes public, You need to upgrade your 286 pc and go to atleast 14400 baud modem .....


? How could you loot it with your alt before it went public? Your alt didn't kill it.

[moklianne]

Allow 2 boxing *cough*

[Gipper.Gipp]

Allow 2 boxing *cough*

Jesus no way man the neck beards here are already long and proud... Could you think of what would happen if they could 2 box...

http://i.imgur.com/QLG4YZ0.jpg

^^ Spreading a little life lesson for ya...

[Duckwalk]

Allow 2 boxing *cough*

Just get an IP exemption for your "girlfriend" or "wife"...




Corrupt

[moklianne]

Just get an IP exemption for your "girlfriend" or "wife"...




Corrupt

I would, but I'm actually honest.

[Duckwalk]

Previous post was less of a recommendation and more of a comment on the lack of enforcement regarding this issue.

For lols, see http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150011

[Locust]

Ironically in this case, its BDA (the guild that campaigned for a more relaxed /casual friendly raid scene in light of larger more dedicated guilds steamrolling over them and getting FTE) who does the exact same thing to unguilded chanter.

That said after the mob was killed it was absolutely ninja looting. Doesn't change the fact that BDA /Chest are hypocrites and assholes in this scenario.

BDA was the largest guild to campaign for the casual raid scene. They were not the only guild. They campaigned extremely hard, with those other guilds, for weeks. What we have now is a result of a COMPROMISE because TMO/FE/IB wanted to keep it the way it was, and would have, if Rogean hadn't forced them to work with us.

It's cool you have opinions tho

[Duckwalk]

Thanks for pointing put that I left out a qualifier in my previous post, however BDA being one of several guilds who campaigned for a more casual raid scene doesn't change the fact that they were the largest and most visible.

It's cool you completely ignore the hypocrisy of BDA campaigning for casual relaxed raid scene then turning around and doing the exact same thing TMO did to them to an unguilded enchanter.

And the fact that the mob is technically FTE doesn't change the fact that steamrolling some unguilded noob who was there first is a pretty shitty way to gear out enchanter alt no.13440303 especially when you've been lobbying for a more relaxed and considerate raid environment.

[arsenalpow]

You can't be "steamrolled" for an epic mob when FTE is the determining factor. It's not lguk frenzy or seb crypt. You dumb.

[Locust]

Thanks for pointing put that I left out a qualifier in my previous post, however BDA being one of several guilds who campaigned for a more casual raid scene doesn't change the fact that they were the largest and most visible.

It's cool you completely ignore the hypocrisy of BDA campaigning for casual relaxed raid scene then turning around and doing the exact same thing TMO did to them to an unguilded enchanter.

And the fact that the mob is technically FTE doesn't change the fact that steamrolling some unguilded noob who was there first is a pretty shitty way to gear out enchanter alt no.13440303 especially when you've been lobbying for a more relaxed and considerate raid environment.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It's not hypocritical to play by the agreed upon rules, even if they aren't the exact rules you wanted to play by.

[Duckwalk]

You can't be "steamrolled" for an epic mob when FTE is the determining factor. It's not lguk frenzy or seb crypt. You dumb.

Whatever meaning "steamrolling" may have picked up as a word of art on p99 I clearly meant it in its general sense, i.e., a single person is in line and a group pushes by them with little regard or despite protest.

But please attempt to rule lawyer some more ( its not like you've shown how horrible BDA is at it in the past), legal or not it doesn't change the fact that its still a shitty thing to do especially in light of BDA supposed stance regarding "competitive" raiding.

[Duckwalk]

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It's not hypocritical to play by the agreed upon rules, even if they aren't the exact rules you wanted to play by.

That's fair however if I had just led a campaign ostensibly to lessen server greed and spread access to raid content and epics, I probably wouldn't have rolled over some unguilded server noobie who was there first just to gear out an alt.

But hey that's me, I don't base my self worth off pixels.

[arsenalpow]

Except VT isn't a queue system. How could BDA have cut in a line that never existed in the first place. We don't monopolize VT, we only kill her when someone needs the epic piece which is completely different from the TMO stance of killing things because fuck everyone else. Saraya didn't get this VT, maybe he/she gets the next one (assuming the suspension is lifted someday) or the one after that.

[Duckwalk]

Except VT isn't a queue system. How could BDA have cut in a line that never existed in the first place. We don't monopolize VT, we only kill her when someone needs the epic piece which is completely different from the TMO stance of killing things because fuck everyone else. Saraya didn't get this VT, maybe he/she gets the next one (assuming the suspension is lifted someday) or the one after that.

Yes, we know VT isn't a queue system. Thanks for referencing arbitrary mob designations.

I'm just saying that in this scenario:

1. unguilded chanter was there first.
2. BDA chanter shows up second.
3. Mob pops and despite unguilded chanter telling BDA that he has people coming, they kill it anyways for someone's alt.

And especially after so many proclamations of "it's just a game", complaints about hardcores, their greed and "not having lives", after years of losing mobs to TMO because they mobilized larger forces quicker, I probably would have given the guy a little leeway or come back for it another time.

Glad you were able to bully some server noobs and get another alt his epic!!

[Kekephee]

That's fair however if I had just led a campaign ostensibly to lessen server greed and spread access to raid content and epics, I probably wouldn't have rolled over some unguilded server noobie who was there first just to gear out an alt.

But hey that's me, I don't base my self worth off pixels.


Not that this has much to do with anything, but just so you know Pricilla is not "an alt," she is a main enchanter and one of a core group of German players who have proven themselves to be a valuable asset to our guild's early-morning raiding time and time again. On top of being really good players, they're all really great human beings.

[baalzy]

Whatever meaning "steamrolling" may have picked up as a word of art on p99 I clearly meant it in its general sense, i.e., a single person is in line and a group pushes by them with little regard or despite protest.

But please attempt to rule lawyer some more ( its not like you've shown how horrible BDA is at it in the past), legal or not it doesn't change the fact that its still a shitty thing to do especially in light of BDA supposed stance regarding "competitive" raiding.

That single person standing in line waiting their turn didn't have the money to pay for their purchase. The group of people behind them had their money ready so they stepped up to the counter.

[arsenalpow]

Yes, we know VT isn't a queue system. Thanks for referencing arbitrary mob designations.

I'm just saying that in this scenario:
I'll entertain this fantasy scenario then.

1. unguilded chanter was there first.
Wrong. Both chanters were tracking.
2. BDA chanter shows up second.
See rebuttal above.
3. Mob pops and despite unguilded chanter telling BDA that he has people coming, they kill it anyways for someone's alt.
Saraya never communicated anything at all. I'll post my entire logs if you'd like. We killed VT for a chanter main that's new.

And especially after so many proclamations of "it's just a game", complaints about hardcores, their greed and "not having lives", after years of losing mobs to TMO because they mobilized larger forces quicker, I probably would have given the guy a little leeway or come back for it another time.

Glad you were able to bully some server noobs and get another alt his epic!!
Not the same thing and/or completely wrong again.

[SyanideGas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKc7f0k_g9w

The real story.

[Stonecrush]

Didn't we already go over that being a douche and ninja looting is a bad idea? It doesn't matter how you slice it or try to make it go your way.

You get more friends by being nice than being a doucher.

Also it is just a game. Stop making it out like this is life and death, that ninja looting will pay bills and put food on the table.

[Duckwalk]

Priscilla disagrees with you -"I was there for quite some time. Not before her but as u all understand there is no waiting on thease mobs . I lost both vessel and verina to others before that were faster to muster a force. Did i go and ninjaed ?"

Ill leave it to TMO to link one of the many RnF post in which BDA cries about TMO stealing FTE, having more numbers than them or being no-life losers for mobilizing faster.

[Kekephee]

Priscilla disagrees with you -"I was there for quite some time. Not before her but as u all understand there is no waiting on thease mobs . I lost both vessel and verina to others before that were faster to muster a force. Did i go and ninjaed ?"

Ill leave it to TMO to link one of the many RnF post in which BDA cries about TMO stealing FTE, having more numbers than them or being no-life losers for mobilizing faster.

You're probably misunderstanding what it is we're "crying about" when we "cry about TMO stealing FTE." Things like "monks being used as limited-allotment trackers on Inny/VS so they can pull him as soon as he spawns while the rest of us are using rangers" (regardless of which side you take in that argument) are very different from "steamrolling" issues. I'm pretty new to the guild, so maybe there was something before my time, but as far as I know there has never been a single instance of BDA having an insufficient force to kill a mob standing at the mob's feet waiting for more to come and someone else brings a sufficient force and takes the kill and we get mad about it. If there has, it was a long time ago and not really relevant anymore anyway.


Editor's note: Monks were never used to pull VS but everyone clearly knows what i'm talking about please

[Rourk]

Keep on arguing that hypothetical scenario. As many have said, Saraya broke the rules. End of story.

VT spawn is totally representative of every level of raiding here on P99.

[Eunomia]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57267

the group that is merited the kill has rights to the loot. If they don't grant you permission to loot the corpse, you are violating an individual server rule by ninja looting.

The ownership of looting rights does not expire until the corpse expires.

Logging off to switch characters does not forfeit these rights.

Logging off while claiming a camp forfeits the camp claim if no other party member continues a presence at the camp during that "log off" absence. If the person logging off with no other party member present returns prior to another player claiming the camp, they may reclaim the camp.

You may not agree with the server's rules and policies, but we would appreciate it if you do not mislead other players while voicing your opposition.

[Duckwalk]

Keep on arguing that hypothetical scenario. As many have said, Saraya broke the rules. End of story.

VT spawn is totally representative of every level of raiding here on P99.

No one talking about ninja looting, catch up.

Also it's not a hypothetical scenario, that's pretty much exactly what happened. Enchanter A is camping mob first. Enchanter B shows up second. Mob spawns and enchanter B's people mobilize faster.

I'm just pointing out the irony of enchanter B and crew being BDA after all their complaining of getting steamrolled for years by TMO.

Because as you say, it's just a game ( except when you need that pixel, little guy be damned)

Edit: and yes keekee, BDA/TMO history goes much further back than monk trackers on Inny

[khanable]

duckwalk saraya's alt account

[Eunomia]

To reiterate because I typed it wrong and edited:

Logging off to switch characters does not forfeit these rights.

[Glenzig]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57267



The ownership of looting rights does not expire until the corpse expires.

Logging off to switch characters does not forfeit these rights.

Logging off while claiming a camp forfeits the camp claim if no other party member continues a presence at the camp during that "log off" absence. If the person logging off with no other party member present returns prior to another player claiming the camp, they may reclaim the camp.

You may not agree with the server's rules and policies, but we would appreciate it if you do not mislead other players while voicing your opposition.

This was the whole point of the thread. Thank you for further clarification.

[fadetree]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57267
Logging off to switch characters does not forfeit these rights.


That surprises me, especially in light of the non-enforcement for ground swaps we saw, but there ya go. Official word. I was, in fact, wrong.

[Duckwalk]

duckwalk saraya's alt account

Lol

[khanable]

hooray the thread is finally over

[Stonecrush]

This was the whole point of the thread. Thank you for further clarification.

AMEN!

Now we can get back to the regularly scheduled program of people wanting Luclin, AA's, POP, POK, and whatever else ruined EQ~!

[Cecily]

http://i.imgur.com/4VxH6vj.jpg

[fadetree]

To be fair as well, I never claimed it was true...just stated my opinion that I didn't think it would be.

[khanable]

http://i.imgur.com/4VxH6vj.jpg

[Kekephee]

hooray the MULTIPLE THREADS is finally over

[Frieza_Prexus]

When you kill a mob you own the loot rights to that mob.

There is established precedence here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...19&postcount=1


Ninja looting is not a raid dispute. It is an individual basis. If a mob is killed in a non-disputable zone, the group (and thus raid/guild) that is merited the kill has rights to the loot. If they don't grant you permission to loot the corpse, you are violating an individual server rule by ninja looting.

Technically, if you kill an orc and run off a newbie looting that rusty axe is stealing your loot. That said, no one ever goes after the newbie. Because you ran away, you are likely ratifying his actions implicitly.

I would suggest you leave clear and documented instructions to the guy hovering around you that you will be logging to your alt and that under no circumstances do you cede the rights to your kill.

The only counter argument to Rogean's post that I see is that his post was in reference to a VP dragon kill. That said, he has clearly indicated this is an individual and not a raid level dispute.

TLDR: You kill it, you own it. If you told the guy to stay away, that additional evidence is unrequired, but helpful to your case.

To reiterate because I typed it wrong and edited:

Logging off to switch characters does not forfeit these rights.

http://i.imgur.com/BAZTdhx.png

[Duckwalk]

Perhaps my "lol" was a bit ambiguous.

That said after the mob was killed it was absolutely ninja looting.

I just happen to enjoy pointing out hypocrisy and it amuses me that after all BDA's talk about fairness and taking the game less serious, it turns out they are just as desperate for pixels/invested in the game, they just can't "compete" but won't hesitate to screw over people smaller than them.

[Pricila]

No one talking about ninja looting, catch up.

Also it's not a hypothetical scenario, that's pretty much exactly what happened. Enchanter A is camping mob first. Enchanter B shows up second. Mob spawns and enchanter B's people mobilize faster.

I'm just pointing out the irony of enchanter B and crew being BDA after all their complaining of getting steamrolled for years by TMO.

Because as you say, it's just a game ( except when you need that pixel, little guy be damned)

Edit: and yes keekee, BDA/TMO history goes much further back than monk trackers on Inny

Can you camp something that you cant kill?
Would that mean if u can get a like lev 10 rogue to nagy you can morally claim it since ur camping it?
What would happend if there were a lev 1 tracker in front of Verina longer than than enchanter A.

Or do you just dont like BDA and ignore the fact that this was an texbook example on how you fight a FTE mob?

cu

Pricila 55 Enchanter

[Duckwalk]

Can you camp something that you cant kill?
Would that mean if u can get a like lev 10 rogue to nagy you can morally claim it since ur camping it?
What would happend if there were a lev 1 tracker in front of Verina longer than than enchanter A.

Or do you just dont like BDA and ignore the fact that this was an texbook example on how you fight a FTE mob?

cu

Pricila 55 Enchanter

He gave them impression in the original post that he wasn't afk, was actively trying to communicate and had a kill force ready.

I would treat that as a different scenario than low lvl alts tracking raid targets. I'm not debating the legality of BDA's action whatsoever, I'm just amused by the impression this scenario gives of the white knights bullying the little guy. If I was Chest I might have tried to handle it differently.

Grats on epic btw

[Kekephee]

Perhaps my "lol" was a bit ambiguous.



I just happen to enjoy pointing out hypocrisy and it amuses me that after all BDA's talk about fairness and taking the game less serious, it turns out they are just as desperate for pixels/invested in the game, they just can't "compete" but won't hesitate to screw over people smaller than them.

How long do you think we should have waited? Long enough for them to send tells to people on their friends list, get a good group together? Long enough for each of those people to look for a port? Long enough for them to run to Neriak? Long enough for them all to hang out and buff each other?

Have you even heard a word in any of this from a single person who has said they were en route to help Saraya? How do you know they even exist, never mind that it wouldn't have taken them half an hour to get there?

Let's be real. If this were the frenzy camp and we were a group of randoms instead of a guild there's not a snowball's chance in Hell you'd be singing this inane little song about BDA being the bad guys. I see you criticize TMO all the time, so I know you're not just some TMO troll or some sycophantic level 30 who hopes to one day join them, but please be aware that what you're doing is you're parroting a meaningless little bit of bullshit that was introduced into the discussion by TMO trolls just to stir people up and get them to think of us as the bad guys.



And Hell, you know what? Epics ARE serious. People work their asses off for months on that shit. Yeah, we're gonna grab what we can when we can, as long as we're not breaking the rules or actively stepping on someone's neck to do it. Not having the numbers to kill the mob and going MINE MINE MINE is not sufficient for "stepping on someone's neck. Believe me when I say, if this had been a situation where I felt like we were "screwing the little guy," I wouldn't have participated. None of us even had any idea Saraya was there until she ninja looted- I said it in the old thread and I stand by it, I did /who when I zoned in and saw no one but BDA. Maybe I missed her name. Maybe she zoned out for a second for some reason. Or maybe she fucking lied about being there. I don't know and I'm not going to make a claim. But at any rate, she never ooc'd, never used /say, nothing. And if she had, we'd have told her, politely, that you can't claim a mob you can't kill.

[freez]

bla bla bla bla

[Duckwalk]

I call em like I see em.

Did BDA violate any server rules? No.

Was it kind of a dick move to leap frog a new unguilded player? Kinda.

VT isn't frenzy and it isn't naggy however employing FTE raid tactics against someone unguilded/new to the raid scene without even making an attempt to communicate with them strikes me as kinda an asshole move. Especially considering the lengths BDA has gone to to change the server culture.

[Kekephee]

Hard to communicate with someone when you don't even know they're in the zone because they haven't said a goddamn word to you, know what I mean? I'll accept the position that it's a dick move to ignore someone who's trying to communicate with you, but I'm telling you that wasn't a "BDA" dick move. It wasn't the entire guild doing it. The best you can do with that argument is maybe Pricilla didn't communicate enough with the enchanter- but here's the thing, we have no idea what communications occurred between them because no one has talked about that. And even if we did, if Saraya can be defended for losing her shit and ninjalooting because the big bad raiding guild stoled her monster, then Pricilla can be excused for being too busy trying to get the guild to send people to help her kill her epic mob that she'd been waiting for for however many weeks to answer a tell from someone incapable of killing that epic mob making a spurious claim to that epic mob ten, thirty minutes in the future.

[Duckwalk]

Per Saraya in original post - "3. When Verina spawned I said to Pricila I have people on the way within several minutes (do I have to give names for witnesses?). I would think that it fair to give me a chance.

This whole time, BDA saw me both in Verina's room and during the fight. No one talked to me, no one tried to communicate."

Maybe I missed the log or another version of the encounter.

[arsenalpow]

Why are you taking everything the NINJA LOOTER said as gospel? Saraya never said a goddamn word.

[webrunner5]

This all boils down to being a nice guy or a asshole. I don't see why it takes page after page to understand this??? :(

[Cecily]

Why are you taking everything the NINJA LOOTER said as gospel? Saraya never said a goddamn word.

Because it's more fun.

[Kekephee]

Per Saraya in original post - "3. When Verina spawned I said to Pricila I have people on the way within several minutes (do I have to give names for witnesses?). I would think that it fair to give me a chance.

This whole time, BDA saw me both in Verina's room and during the fight. No one talked to me, no one tried to communicate."

Maybe I missed the log or another version of the encounter.

Boy that's really specific enough and definitely enough for me to make a judgment on whether Pricilla is a terrible human being!


No word on Pricilla's response, if any, no word on how many tells Saraya sent or even if it was in /say and maybe didn't even get seen, no word no word no word


At least we know "the whole time BDA saw me" is a fucking lie because like I said, we didn't!



Maybe Saraya just /said "I've got some people on the way" as Pricilla was running out of the room then figured, eh, whatever, I'll let BDA kill it and now I can say i had claimed it so the loot's mine yeeheehee." We don't know! It's better to make assumptions and take a side!!!

[Duckwalk]

Why are you taking everything the NINJA LOOTER said as gospel? Saraya never said a goddamn word.

You yourself gave the impression here "Both enchanters were sitting there waiting for VT to pop, she popped, we got our force there first, we killed the mob" that only the enchanters were there when the mob spawned.

Were you there as well? Please post logs!

Chest campaigns for more relaxed and casual raid culture then uses FTE raid rules to pull epic mob from unguilded/inexperienced in raid scene noob without even the courtesy of explaining what's going on.

Skillz

[moklianne]

This all boils down to being a nice guy or a asshole. I don't see why it takes page after page to understand this??? :(

^

[Rettj]

I vote yes

And on pvp server you can attack people

[Lictor]

53 unguilded enchanter. Has anyone called this person casual scum yet?

[Cecily]

No, that would be insensitive. Shame on any high end player would stoop to using such language.

[Kekephee]

You gave the impression here "Both enchanters were sitting there waiting for VT to pop, she popped, we got our force there first, we killed the mob"

Were you there when the mob popped? Please post logs!

Chest campaigns for more relaxed and casual raid culture then uses FTE raid rules to pull epic mob from unguilded/inexperienced in raid scene noob without even the courtesy of explaining what's going on.

Skillz

At this point it's clear you haven't listened to a fucking word I've said so rather than continue talking to you like an adult who is intelligent enough to learn new facts and change his opinion I'm going to stop responding to this thread and let it die, die, dieeeee

[Kekephee]

No, that would be insensitive. Shame on any high end player would stoop to using such language.

BDA membership requirement is to have a /shout CASUAL SCUM macro so that when we take unguilded crippled orphans' mobs we can spam it

[Lictor]

BDA membership requirement is to have a /shout CASUAL SCUM macro so that when we take unguilded crippled orphans' mobs we can spam it

I prefer tells with screen shots linked in forums to make work go by faster please.

[Duckwalk]

At this point it's clear you haven't listened to a fucking word I've said so rather than continue talking to you like an adult who is intelligent enough to learn new facts and change his opinion I'm going to stop responding to this thread and let it die, die, dieeeee

Well I'm sorry that I have a different opinion than you of the scenario as it occurred in Neriak and of course I'm open to new information however as of now I've yet to see anything other than Chest contradicting himself.

[Yonkec]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/347/402/f6f.gif

[Cecily]

BDA membership requirement is to have a /shout CASUAL SCUM macro so that when we take unguilded crippled orphans' mobs we can spam it

Loled. That's a fantastic idea. Maybe we can have all class C guilds and class R guilds which really should be class C do that.

[arsenalpow]

I wonder if this would have been different if it wants BDA and me at the top of this.

[Duckwalk]

Probably

[khanable]

definitely

[Cecily]

Doubt it.

[khanable]

maybe

[Duckwalk]

Replace BDA with TMO and the thread would have been able how much they were selling the MQ for and which TMO member got banned for RMT said mobs drop.

[khanable]

can't mq vt book

so no

[Duckwalk]

Doubting TMO ability to sell epic drops/RMT? Fail

[Cecily]

We'd find a way.

[Kekephee]

Well I'm sorry that I have a different opinion than you of the scenario as it occurred in Neriak and of course I'm open to new information however as of now I've yet to see anything other than Chest contradicting himself.

I'm not talking about the opinion. I'm talking about you saying the same thing over and over and over again, and me explaining over and over and over again why what you're saying isn't true, and you responding as if you're listening and then as soon as you get a chance you go back to square 1 as if I haven't been trying to hammer this into your head for 5 pages this morning.

[Duckwalk]

me explaining over and over and over again why what you're saying isn't true.

And why is that again? What ground breaking piece of evidence exculpates BDA from any and all wrong doing?

You have logs of all parties involved?

[Erati]

And why is that again? What ground breaking piece of evidence exculpates BDA from any and all wrong doing?

You have logs of all parties involved?

http://pikof.com/di/E358/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg

[Duckwalk]

http://pikof.com/di/E358/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg

But I'm still at the office!

[Glenzig]

http://pikof.com/di/E358/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg

That was like 5 pages ago.

[Blade]

http://pikof.com/di/E358/its-time-to-stop-posting.jpg

[Pricila]

To clarify:

Saraya was in the Zone when Verina poped, so were I.
If she tryed to comunicate with me it it would have been in say because i checked
who telled me anythigh after her 1st few posts in forum. I might have overlooked
it while coordinating in TS3 with Ramsis answering tells from friends that were inc and writing in guildchat.

That said do you think any of us would have even touched the mob if she would have engaged 1st? Verina isnt a super hard mob you just need a tankish char (in our case Monk) and a Healer. Anything else only shortens the fight.

So your point is we walzed over a poor unguilded enchanter?. While beeing Guilded imensly helps with fast mobilisation she could have got her 1st shot if some of her friends would have sat there with her. For all that matters we both could have been lv 1 track mules because at 53 and 54 neither of us could kill Verina solo or actually efect her at all directly.

We mobolized 1st. pulled her and killed her.

The rest is History.

For your Information this too is my 1st char on P1999 and i spend a lots of time on doing my epic. I did lost both Verina and Vessle runs before and i didnt even thoght of
trying to spam click a corpse. If you loose try again try to get friends to have their chars loged near spawn when they arent doing camps or raids and try to mobilize withing minutes of the Pop.

Thease 2 Mobs are the bottleneck or the Enchanter epic and we dont have to luxery that we can MQ ANY part of it.


Even if it frustrating to lose a pull there is 0 reasons that justiyfy ninja looting.


cu

Pricila Asagiri 55 Enchanter.

[jaybone]

To clarify:

Saraya was in the Zone when Verina poped, so were I.
If she tryed to comunicate with me it it would have been in say because i checked
who telled me anythigh after her 1st few posts in forum. I might have overlooked
it while coordinating in TS3 with Ramsis answering tells from friends that were inc and writing in guildchat.

That said do you think any of us would have even touched the mob if she would have engaged 1st? Verina isnt a super hard mob you just need a tankish char (in our case Monk) and a Healer. Anything else only shortens the fight.

So your point is we walzed over a poor unguilded enchanter?. While beeing Guilded imensly helps with fast mobilisation she could have got her 1st shot if some of her friends would have sat there with her. For all that matters we both could have been lv 1 track mules because at 53 and 54 neither of us could kill Verina solo or actually efect her at all directly.

We mobolized 1st. pulled her and killed her.

The rest is History.

For your Information this too is my 1st char on P1999 and i spend a lots of time on doing my epic. I did lost both Verina and Vessle runs before and i didnt even thoght of
trying to spam click a corpse. If you loose try again try to get friends to have their chars loged near spawn when they arent doing camps or raids and try to mobilize withing minutes of the Pop.

Thease 2 Mobs are the bottleneck or the Enchanter epic and we dont have to luxery that we can MQ ANY part of it.


Even if it frustrating to lose a pull there is 0 reasons that justiyfy ninja looting.


cu

Pricila Asagiri 55 Enchanter.
Glad 2 c u tryed.

Join BDA..even retards get their epics.

[khanable]

Glad 2 c u tryed.

Join BDA..even retards get their epics.

ESL

Maybe even third or fourth

[arsenalpow]

http://i.imgur.com/e3QhR5m.gif
http://i.imgur.com/cniBhOw.gif
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http://i.imgur.com/czhenZ2.gif
http://i.imgur.com/h3jEifr.gif
http://i.imgur.com/eoGWMIV.gif
http://i.imgur.com/3wKNkXJ.gif
http://i.imgur.com/F8rju1s.gif
http://i.imgur.com/sQrxDO1.gif
http://i.imgur.com/hTGYxyz.gif

[Kekephee]

yesssssssssssssss Rallllllllllllllllllllllllphhhhhhhhhhhhh