Why Wizards Are So Bad?

[IzHaN80]

Thread!

I just rolled one a few hours ago. Excited as i hit the level 4 thinking i would get some uber DD, i realize that my mage/enchanter hits for the same damage, but they do have pets that can tank. Logic?

[Recycled Children]

They are kings on Red 99. Come on over and live in wizard glory.

[baalzy]

Wiz spells are second to none later and will be good for raids in Velious. That said, back in 1999 people didn't play with the same meta game we do today. People would regularly fight mobs that were higher level than the group, taking more damage, requiring more healing and having more downtime from the cleric, so the downtime for a wiz to med wasn't seen as a detriment because it allowed them to kill those reds easier.

As time has moved on people have realized killing 5 mobs for 5000xp each is significantly better than killing 2 mobs for 9000 experience each and have moved to a sustained DPS model that just doesn't work with the burst of wizards.

Same thing happened in FFXI, people loved having black mages in their groups to magic burst for max-xp kills against incredibly tough mobs(200xp). Then the meta changed to burning 80-120 xp mobs at a much faster rate and black mage fell out of favor because they were burst dps.

[no chewie dont]

yeh u should be soloing half a dozen dragons at a time by level 4
are you doing it wrong perhaps?

[Brut]

Because Verant.

[Laugher]

Gets better 10+ p sure, also you get ports and never have to worry about nerfing your xp with a pet like a mage does :)

[Erati]

Wizards are fine the problem is their Nukes during this era dont have the ooomph that they should since their class is based around dropping big f-ing bombs

Later in EQ this gets fixed with Manaburn etc but for now they are basically gimped druids that cant heal

( yea I said it )

[IzHaN80]

I just expected something better from wizard, but i don't see its acceptable you burn half of your mana pool to kill a dark blue con. I attempted to solo a white con, and i had to root/flee cause just he doesn't have enough sustained damage without a pet. This class logic i don't get it.

[Brut]

Crit nukes were basically what fixed the class imo.

Wouldn't call em gimp druids tho since druids are gimped wizards/clerics/shamans.

Most every class sucks until a certain point, only a select really have their gimmick going pre-teens. Like shaman sucks hardcore until their 24 poison dot.

[Adolphus]

Seems like people are forgetting that this is not a balanced game whatsoever. This is the first, experimental iteration of modern MMORPG's . . . Verant didn't know what they were doing when they designed half this shit. And yet we still got something very good overall.

Only hope for a game like EQ with balanced, interesting specialized classes is to have some independent developer make a new one. Otherwise, just have to deal that it's not balanced and that certain classes like Wizards are going to suck.

[Laugher]

Perhaps if you'd like to see how a class does on the high end here create a toon /beta it and go to velious beta, beta buff will max you out so you can mess around n see how they are high end here

[Thulack]

So lets go over how your day has gone:

Mages = Lame
Wizards = Lame

Maybe you should attempt to play a melee class next. Report back in 3 hours.

[Nirgon]

Next I will try quadding with a rogue (or rouge to some).

[Glenzig]

Start a Necro. Solo your way to glory.

[Velerin]

Wizards have it roughest in classic leveling. That's why eq added all kinds of caster based things later: focus effects, more ft, crit nukes, more damage on nukes. If you look at classic low lvl nukes compared to modern low level nukes they upped the damage and efficiency a lot. Don't remember when these changes were made.
At your level its rough because melee with trash kunark weapons are hitting harder with each hit then your nuke is doing.

[Ele]

just solo till 56, then you can join the chardok ae group and get 60 in a few days

[Daldaen]

Strike of Solusek, Harvest of Druzzil, AAs, Focus Effects and Flowing Thought fixed wizards.

PoP was an awesome point of balance. Rangers, Wizards and Druids - generally deemed to be some of the weaker all around classes here, become godlike with the addition of AAs and Luclin/PoP spells.

*Miss PoP*

[daasgoot]

With all of the great information people have posted aside...

leveling up to 4 and making a decision on the classes ability to be successful/useful is just stupid.

[Frug]

As time has moved on people have realized killing 5 mobs for 5000xp each is significantly better than killing 2 mobs for 9000 experience each and have moved to a sustained DPS model that just doesn't work with the burst of wizards.


In general you are 100% correct, but even in '99 there was a fairly well known tenant that the best XP in the game was a constant supply of blues, even though people didn't want to believe it.

Just like the thing most often last heard from rednecks is "Hold my beer and watch this", the last thing that is heard before a group wipe is "We can do harder."

[loramin]

What everyone else said about wizards is absolutely true ... at higher levels. But at low levels EVERY class is basically a warrior. I think you're expecting too much from a low level char.

[Meiva]

Thread!

I just rolled one a few hours ago. Excited as i hit the level 4 thinking i would get some uber DD, i realize that my mage/enchanter hits for the same damage, but they do have pets that can tank. Logic?

Play a wizard if you enjoy it! I felt I didn't feel much like a wizard until my first self-ports at lvl 20 I believe. Nukes feel stronger then as well, though resists will have you gritting your teeth. I found that I hadn't fallen in love until my first AE snare.

At 29 I began quadding solo, and never looked back. It becomes most efficient at lvl 34, however the levels come quick while quadding. During an unhealthy playtime stretch I could make 3-4 levels in a day at the right spots, and enjoy most of my time doing it. The lvl 30ish wizard quests are quite fun to complete as well.

You will likely not be first choice for groups, but you have utility. Wizards are burst DPS, which allows us to shine during raids. While grouped you will not offer sustained DPS like that rogue or monk that is with you. That is OK. Utilize your stuns and roots. That one great save that was due to your utility spells may leave such a positive impression that next time the group will be asking YOU to join them. Maybe...

Later in the game you will be welcomed for your Evac ability. Allowing groups to delve deep in to a dungeon with less of a concern of leaving a corpse behind. Your group gate spells also allows for your group to maneuver quickly to new hunting grounds. Keeping the group from falling apart while running/seeking ports. Your great burst DPS will help to burn down that named mob your group has been working for. Late game you are wanted for AE groups. The most infamous AE group being Chardok, but there are other "small time" AE groups else there. There has been talk about Sebilis AE after the last patch (maybe) fixed pathing issues.

^ Most of this doesnt sound fun to you? Best to try out another class before you waste too much of your time!

*edit* Oh, also, don't feel you need to burn all of your mana each pull with the exception of quading. In fact, that is normally the wrong way to play Wizard. I am not saying to sit there and do nothing as you'd give us all a bad name. Keep a reserve of mana when you can for that moment your group needs something dead quick, those three mobs rooted asap, that CHeal interupted, or that evac to safety. Well-formed groups find their DPS primarily in melee.

[Erati]

But at low levels EVERY class is basically a warrior. I think you're expecting too much from a low level char.

wat?

[fadetree]

Play a wizard if you enjoy it! I felt I didn't feel much like a wizard until my first self-ports at lvl 20 I believe. Nukes feel stronger then as well, though resists will have you gritting your teeth. I found that I hadn't fallen in love until my first AE snare.

At 29 I began quadding solo, and never looked back. It becomes most efficient at lvl 34, however the levels come quick while quadding. During an unhealthy playtime stretch I could make 3-4 levels in a day at the right spots, and enjoy most of my time doing it. The lvl 30ish wizard quests are quite fun to complete as well.

You will likely not be first choice for groups, but you have utility. Wizards are burst DPS, which allows us to shine during raids. While grouped you will not offer sustained DPS like that rogue or monk that is with you. That is OK. Utilize your stuns and roots. That one great save that was due to your utility spells may leave such a positive impression that next time the group will be asking YOU to join them. Maybe...

Later in the game you will be welcomed for your Evac ability. Allowing groups to delve deep in to a dungeon with less of a concern of leaving a corpse behind. Your group gate spells also allows for your group to maneuver quickly to new hunting grounds. Keeping the group from falling apart while running/seeking ports. Your great burst DPS will help to burn down that named mob your group has been working for. Late game you are wanted for AE groups. The most infamous AE group being Chardok, but there are other "small time" AE groups else there. There has been talk about Sebilis AE after the last patch (maybe) fixed pathing issues.

^ Most of this doesnt sound fun to you? Best to try out another class before you waste too much of your time!

*edit* Oh, also, don't feel you need to burn all of your mana each pull with the exception of quading. In fact, that is normally the wrong way to play Wizard. I am not saying to sit there and do nothing as you'd give us all a bad name. Keep a reserve of mana when you can for that moment your group needs something dead quick, those three mobs rooted asap, that CHeal interupted, or that evac to safety. Well-formed groups find their DPS primarily in melee.

Good write up.

[Tecmos Deception]

Wizards aren't bad. They're situational.

Besides that though, p99's timeline isn't very friendly towards caster DPS. Extra time means more gear of higher-quality is more readily available. And while extra gear means more damage AND more survivability for melee, it doesn't give a caster more mana regen, more efficiency, or more damage.

So wizards start off already an "ok" option at best for groups. And then p99's slow timeline weakens them relative to melee DPS classes from there. They aren't bad though, because they are still quite good soloers, great in raids, sweet in AE groups, and they have some nice convenience features in the form of ports (which get even better in Velious with translocates).

[Raavak]

Why are you nuking at lvl 4? You should still be meleeing.

[loramin]

wat?
If you go play a level 1 warrior, then a level 1 cleric, then a level 1 wizard (or any other class at level 1), you'll find that they are not very distinct, and that you can't really tell what any of those classes are like from the experience (except maybe warrior). That's what I meant by them being "basically a warrior."

Essentially all low level characters just run around stabbing things. Sure casters throw in an occasional nuke, and pet classes (once they get a pet) are the exception but otherwise every class plays largely the same at first level. You really have to play a class at least to 10 (and arguably longer) before you can really appreciate what that class is about.

[Nirgon]

Personally I thought taking a wizard to something where you are already clearing fast with 5 to be great. Seb crypt for example.

Oh and I was able to pull aggro right as PD died and out dps the rogues.

I also think draco was 3 manned here by SK/cleric/wizard under train? Yaw?

[getsome]

Weezards are not bad.

[Fri Feb 21 18:21:50 2014] Trakanon engages Wavaran!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!

[Dragonsblood1987]

Theyre bad, because when a wizard gets a group, they think that "partying" means watching netflix and standing up at random points in a fight to cast a nuke and then med for another episode.

[Tongpow]

Weezards are not bad.

[Fri Feb 21 18:21:50 2014] Trakanon engages Wavaran!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif

[Nirgon]

Yaw did the same thing on PD

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Wizards don't fit well into the 6-man template people hold for when looking for groups.

If you use your noggin and think about some things you or even they can do you'll find many useful applications.

[Nirgon]

Ya like using an epic + manastone or a cleric + wizard + mana stone in old world

A necro can heal for free here unlike live so you don't even need an epic if you got a necro buddy

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Ya like using an epic + manastone or a cleric + wizard + mana stone in old world

A necro can heal for free here unlike live so you don't even need an epic if you got a necro buddy

The hole or solb. So good

[Zalora]

I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.

[Champion_Standing]

Well now that you are level 4 and have a handle on the class how can I argue?

[Champion_Standing]

I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.

Anyone can create and host their own EQEmu server. Will play when you are ready to open it.

[JayN]

Play a wizard if you enjoy it! I felt I didn't feel much like a wizard until my first self-ports at lvl 20 I believe. Nukes feel stronger then as well, though resists will have you gritting your teeth. I found that I hadn't fallen in love until my first AE snare.

At 29 I began quadding solo, and never looked back. It becomes most efficient at lvl 34, however the levels come quick while quadding. During an unhealthy playtime stretch I could make 3-4 levels in a day at the right spots, and enjoy most of my time doing it. The lvl 30ish wizard quests are quite fun to complete as well.

You will likely not be first choice for groups, but you have utility. Wizards are burst DPS, which allows us to shine during raids. While grouped you will not offer sustained DPS like that rogue or monk that is with you. That is OK. Utilize your stuns and roots. That one great save that was due to your utility spells may leave such a positive impression that next time the group will be asking YOU to join them. Maybe...

Later in the game you will be welcomed for your Evac ability. Allowing groups to delve deep in to a dungeon with less of a concern of leaving a corpse behind. Your group gate spells also allows for your group to maneuver quickly to new hunting grounds. Keeping the group from falling apart while running/seeking ports. Your great burst DPS will help to burn down that named mob your group has been working for. Late game you are wanted for AE groups. The most infamous AE group being Chardok, but there are other "small time" AE groups else there. There has been talk about Sebilis AE after the last patch (maybe) fixed pathing issues.

^ Most of this doesnt sound fun to you? Best to try out another class before you waste too much of your time!

*edit* Oh, also, don't feel you need to burn all of your mana each pull with the exception of quading. In fact, that is normally the wrong way to play Wizard. I am not saying to sit there and do nothing as you'd give us all a bad name. Keep a reserve of mana when you can for that moment your group needs something dead quick, those three mobs rooted asap, that CHeal interupted, or that evac to safety. Well-formed groups find their DPS primarily in melee.

QFT

the difference between a well played wiz vs a afk most of the time wiz is huge; unfortunately through my play experiences most of them are the ladder

[Zalora]

Anyone can create and host their own EQEmu server. Will play when you are ready to open it.

If only I knew how to program. :)

[Nirgon]

I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.

Wizards don't come up on melee parser

Are deemed useless

I sense a lot of raid "DPS" that can't port (or porters that can't dps or effecively heal raid tanks heh heh heh) round here

http://x2.fjcdn.com/comments/I+felt+rather+dissapoint+when+I+saw+it+wasn+t+this +_007f79495898d5339a844a7e5fb3cbf5.jpg

Btw between tov dragons how many times will a wizard be full mana before duelist etc is back up?

[daasgoot]

I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.

you have no toons past 45 eh?

[Molinior]

Play a wizard if you enjoy it! I felt I didn't feel much like a wizard until my first self-ports at lvl 20 I believe. Nukes feel stronger then as well, though resists will have you gritting your teeth. I found that I hadn't fallen in love until my first AE snare.

At 29 I began quadding solo, and never looked back. It becomes most efficient at lvl 34, however the levels come quick while quadding. During an unhealthy playtime stretch I could make 3-4 levels in a day at the right spots, and enjoy most of my time doing it. The lvl 30ish wizard quests are quite fun to complete as well.

You will likely not be first choice for groups, but you have utility. Wizards are burst DPS, which allows us to shine during raids. While grouped you will not offer sustained DPS like that rogue or monk that is with you. That is OK. Utilize your stuns and roots. That one great save that was due to your utility spells may leave such a positive impression that next time the group will be asking YOU to join them. Maybe...

Later in the game you will be welcomed for your Evac ability. Allowing groups to delve deep in to a dungeon with less of a concern of leaving a corpse behind. Your group gate spells also allows for your group to maneuver quickly to new hunting grounds. Keeping the group from falling apart while running/seeking ports. Your great burst DPS will help to burn down that named mob your group has been working for. Late game you are wanted for AE groups. The most infamous AE group being Chardok, but there are other "small time" AE groups else there. There has been talk about Sebilis AE after the last patch (maybe) fixed pathing issues.

^ Most of this doesnt sound fun to you? Best to try out another class before you waste too much of your time!

*edit* Oh, also, don't feel you need to burn all of your mana each pull with the exception of quading. In fact, that is normally the wrong way to play Wizard. I am not saying to sit there and do nothing as you'd give us all a bad name. Keep a reserve of mana when you can for that moment your group needs something dead quick, those three mobs rooted asap, that CHeal interupted, or that evac to safety. Well-formed groups find their DPS primarily in melee.

^^ This is pretty good. Don't blow all your mana on a single mob. Instead save about 30% of your mana for emergencies and endeavor to put your best dmg per mana nuke once for every non-trivial mob. If your grup is pulling light blues dont worry about nuking, instead med up until the hard dark blues or whites/yellows come and put the hurt on them. I always keep root and a longer duration root memmed in groups along with an evac and a stun or two. Utility is the key word with wizards.

I usually have no problem finding groups to run dungeons with because people know I'm gonna root adds, interupt Complete Heals and Evac if we're in a tough place to CR from. If you can't find a group gate to closest quad area and go to town. If you aren't comfortable quadding find a 20 minute spawn camp and do some house work while you med between spawns.

[Zalora]

you have no toons past 45 eh?

I have a 60 Druid. You'll have to come up with another way to discount statements you don't like. :p

[daasgoot]

I have a 60 Druid. You'll have to come up with another way to discount statements you don't like. :p

so you have played end game.. and you still call wizards useless?

then you are just really bad at EQ.

[Zalora]

so you have played end game.. and you still call wizards useless?

then you are just really bad at EQ.

You disagree with me? Wow, you must be really bad. Go get some more video game experience.

[Artaenc]

I have a 60 Druid. You'll have to come up with another way to discount statements you don't like. :p

I would say there is a slight advantage to wizard nukes mana efficient or not when you want things dead as fast as possible.

Decrease Hitpoints by 1615 (Wizard sunstrike)
Decrease Hitpoints by 1024 (Druid wild fire)
Decrease Hitpoints by 675 (Enchanter Dementia)
Decrease Hitpoints by 1024 (Magician Seeking Flame of Seukor)

[Kika Maslyaka]

If only I knew how to program. :)

you actually don't need to.
If you can browse your hard drive and install EQ, you can run EQ server.
You only need basic PC skills

[Zalora]

you actually don't need to.
If you can browse your hard drive and install EQ, you can run EQ server.
You only need basic PC skills

No one was talking about running a generic EQ server.

[Kika Maslyaka]

No one was talking about running a generic EQ server.

regardless. same skill set applies. All you need is creativity

[Nirgon]

Paladin > druid all day minus thorns PL

Disclaimer: thorns PL not fastest PL esp at high lvls. I was able to PL a cleric with a wizard and enchanter (1 was enough) by pbaoeing (letting the cleric finish) all of live side lower guk. Score another point for wizard being bad ass.

[Clark]

Crit nukes were basically what fixed the class imo.

Wouldn't call em gimp druids tho since druids are gimped wizards/clerics/shamans.

Most every class sucks until a certain point, only a select really have their gimmick going pre-teens. Like shaman sucks hardcore until their 24 poison dot.

[stonez138]

Originally Posted by Zalora
I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.

[stonez138]

oops I meant to add some commentary about how I like paladins in dungeons since they hold aggro better then warriors, stun casters, root, paci pull, and for several levels can heal on par with druids...

[Adolphus]

I would support the idea of a server with the p1999 developers that had a custom, thought-out and balanced stat, class and mechanic system. But it would be such an enormous amount of work for them to do this. I'm just not sure it's ever going to happen, even if they wanted to do it.

Best hope for people wishing for this is a new game by an independent studio.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Crit nukes were basically what fixed the class imo.

Wouldn't call em gimp druids tho since druids are gimped wizards/clerics/shamans.

Most every class sucks until a certain point, only a select really have their gimmick going pre-teens. Like shaman sucks hardcore until their 24 poison dot.

Even that is questionable. It's just incremental changes. And truthfully the class as a whole would be kinda so-so without torpor. God-tier spell.

[Zalora]

regardless. same skill set applies. All you need is creativity

No, you need programming knowledge to create custom content.

[webrunner5]

The worse class on here is way better than the best class if the person playing it is damn good at playing it. :o

[Meiva]

I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.

:mad:

You make me sick.

[Zuranthium]

Basically, as you get higher and higher in level in Everquest, a Wizard becomes more and more ineffective. The pinnacle of a Wizard's life in this game are Levels 12 and 13, when they actually have an amazing direct damage spell as compared to every other class in the game for that level and the spell actually takes a huge chunk of a monster's HP off in short amount of time. At no other point in the game can a Wizard "nuke" a target so well.

[Nirgon]

Yeah ice comet and sunstrike def not strong single nukes for their level

[SamwiseRed]

Basically, as you get higher and higher in level in Everquest, a Wizard becomes more and more ineffective. The pinnacle of a Wizard's life in this game are Levels 12 and 13, when they actually have an amazing direct damage spell as compared to every other class in the game for that level and the spell actually takes a huge chunk of a monster's HP off in short amount of time. At no other point in the game can a Wizard "nuke" a target so well.

before i goto bed i just gotta ask, you some kind of moran?

[oldhead]

I wish P1999 had a Non-Classic server where changes and additions were implemented that made the game better and allowed for better class balance, etc. As it stands now, certain classes like Wizard and Paladin are essentially useless.
Oh lord.. I would be all over that. Wouldnt even bother playing new games.

[Potus]

Wizards were OP as fuck in the beta and got nerfed hard before launch.

[Zuranthium]

Yeah ice comet and sunstrike def not strong single nukes for their level

Casting those spells on an equivalent level mob takes off a comparatively lower % of health than casting Shock of Lightning on an equivalent level mob.

Plus, the cast times are massively different. Shock of Lightning is 2.2 seconds, whereas Ice Comet is 6.3 and Sunstrike is 7.0

At Level 12, a Wizard can kill an appropriate level target WAY faster than they can later in the game. Fact. You can kill something with 3 casts of Shock of Lightning at that level. That's a total of 11.1 seconds spent to down a target (including recharge time). Now, compare to a Level 49 Wizard trying to kill a Seafury Cyclops. It takes 5 casts of Ice Comet, which takes a Wizard 40.5 seconds to accomplish. That is nearly FOUR times as long, plus it takes significantly longer for the Wizard to regen that mana as compared to the Level 12 Wizard!

What a Wizard is able to accomplish at Level 12 should a model for their level of effectiveness the rest of the game, but unfortunately it is not. Things just become worse and worse for the Wizard. You go into Crushbone at Level 12 and your group gets a bad pull - you as a Wizard can actually burn an add down by yourself before it causes too much trouble. Go into Sebelis at Level 55 and your group gets a bad pull? As a Wizard the most useful thing you can try to do is root-park an add. You can't actually burn anything down on your own.

[Nirgon]

You can't actually burn anything down on your own.

Lol

You ain't played an end game wizard I guess

(I'm aware of your 55 reference, they should be quadding aka doing better than every other class except enchanter at xping)

It's just funny seeing rogues cream their pants over their duelist backstabs when wizards can mash lure of ice... without a discipline.

Are these threads supposed to be crying for wizard buffs or something? They aren't needed. EQ is situational learn to be strong in situations.

[Jimjam]

OP needs to remember the classes are barely divergent at level 4. Pick up a cheap 2hb and blunt your way to victory.

Lost staff of the scorned is very cheap in EC makes wizards decent melee DPS for the first dozen levels or so. Once you pass this stage you should be in groups and remember to AFK frequently because baby needs feeding, dogs need letting out and wife is calling... you'll be a pro in no time ;).

[Zuranthium]

You ain't played an end game wizard I guess

Please, give me an example of a Wizard in a high-end zone that can kill a target with 3 casts or less (Disintegrate obviously doesn't count).

(I'm aware of your 55 reference, they should be quadding aka doing better than every other class except enchanter at xping)

A ridiculous assertion. People didn't roll Wizard when they started Everquest with dreams of solo quad kiting in their mind. It's insanely boring and is NOT better experience than a strong group in a good dungeon.

It's just funny seeing rogues cream their pants over their duelist backstabs when wizards can mash lure of ice... without a discipline.

Wizards can hardly mash it for long. They run out of energy. Melee don't.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Lol

You ain't played an end game wizard I guess

(I'm aware of your 55 reference, they should be quadding aka doing better than every other class except enchanter at xping)

It's just funny seeing rogues cream their pants over their duelist backstabs when wizards can mash lure of ice... without a discipline.

Are these threads supposed to be crying for wizard buffs or something? They aren't needed. EQ is situational learn to be strong in situations.

Our rogues are 3-4k during a duelist fight (say 15-20s engage, most 32ks with a good force). Even with perfect lures wizards are looking closer to 2700 damage during the duration.

That said, with bane spells and if AC functions correctly on beta (it's not bad atm, but still). Wizard damage on targets where they aren't oom for TOO long is actually pretty good. It's a good time to have two wizards with IP exemption--just /q over once you're oom from casting hsagra / porlo's as much as you can :P

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Please, give me an example of a Wizard in a high-end zone that can kill a target with 3 casts or less (Disintegrate obviously doesn't count).



A ridiculous assertion. People didn't roll Wizard when they started Everquest with dreams of solo quad kiting in their mind. It's insanely boring and is NOT better experience than a strong group in a good dungeon.



Wizards can hardly mash it for long. They run out of energy. Melee don't.

Most fights are won or lost in the first 60 seconds for raids. Usually closer to the first 30 seconds. Wizards are good--most annoying part is the mob being pushed out of bellycast range.

[Cecily]

That Zurnansdndfthium fellow has serious issues with EQ and should play something else.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

That Zurnansdndfthium fellow has serious issues with EQ and should play something else.

Too many players making conjecture on high end play (especially p99 play) without having actually done it / doing it. No, your fucking class R trakanon kill isn't how shit goes down. Not even close.

[Zuranthium]

Most fights are won or lost in the first 60 seconds for raids. Usually closer to the first 30 seconds. Wizards are good--most annoying part is the mob being pushed out of bellycast range.

No shit Wizards are good for single-target raids. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about how a Wizard does during the REST of their gameplay, aka 99% of the time that most people put into playing their character.

A good MMORPG should be about the entire journey. It should be fun or make people feel like the work they are putting in is valuable. Wizards are not "valuable" throughout the vast majority of the Everquest experience, especially when considering twinking, and the problem becomes significantly magnified at the higher levels.

One thing that could and should be done in an MMORPG to make the Wizard type of character more valuable is having single-party "boss" targets throughout the entire course of the game and having those bosses actually give out significantly more exp. In Everquest the amount of exp earned is solely based upon a static level formula and zone modifier, which means farming low/mid blues is the best way to level after you get past the low levels.

If "boss" targets actually existed throughout the entire course of the game and gave out something like 5x as much exp, plus if the exp formulas were modified so that they didn't cater so much to farming low blues, then the Wizard would be far more worthwhile. The amount of time it takes them to do damage would still need to be fixed for the higher levels, though. Obviously the issue there, however, is that there shouldn't be a bunch of different spells that do the exact same type of thing, only with different numbers for different levels. The skill system in Guild Wars is the ideal, as it makes each skill/spell potentially valuable for any level and you choose skills based upon what you want to do and what you have the skill to execute the best.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Admittedly I'm not sure if I could've stomached leveling a mage without skyfire and then chardok AOE. Shit is just tedious. But boss killing really is the pinnacle of blue 99. If you do raid in the high end scene, it becomes the vast majority of your playtime.

[Meiva]

I find quading satisfying. Back in '99 it likely would've been tedious. Now-a-day I'll finish a quad, and then have around 10min to do something else before I'm ready for the next. Browse, watch a stream, maybe play a match on Hearthstone.

I'll group with my monk when I wish to be engaged constantly.

[IzHaN80]

This post isn't about Wizards state at high level, but discussion about Verant's logic about how you're supossed to solo past level 4 just with your nukes and your newbie weapon, when a single nuke deals about 8% hp of a dark blue con mob, while they hit you for about 12% of your hp per swing. Not to mention that you don't have enough mana pool to finish off a dark blue con mob on your own, while the pet classes can just sit and watch their pet wack things on their own.

[Rararboker]

I started here in August last year as a wizard with no equipment. It wasn't that hard. Maybe you just need to suck less?

[IzHaN80]

I started here in August last year as a wizard with no equipment. It wasn't that hard. Maybe you just need to suck less?

I bet you were soloing a lot of stuff on your own, no one will believe you. Wizards sucks low lvl, can't solo for shit.

[Tecmos Deception]

I bet you were soloing a lot of stuff on your own, no one will believe you. Wizards sucks low lvl, can't solo for shit.

Is leveling an untwinked wizard 1-30 as easy as playing a pet class? No.
Is leveling an untwinked wizard 1-30 hard? No.

Engage at max distance with bolt spell, use roots, don't fight stuff that is too high level for you to actually finish off every single time even if you have some bad luck with resists, kill lowbie mobs that drop items that you can sell to tradeskillers/factioners and buy some low-end gear (especially hp rings). Etc. Plenty of people have leveled untwinked wizards solo just fine. EQ isn't a perfectly balanced game, but it's user error if you "can't solo for shit" on a wizard regardless of your level or gear.

[Kika Maslyaka]

This post isn't about Wizards state at high level, but discussion about Verant's logic about how you're supossed to solo past level 4 just with your nukes and your newbie weapon, when a single nuke deals about 8% hp of a dark blue con mob, while they hit you for about 12% of your hp per swing. Not to mention that you don't have enough mana pool to finish off a dark blue con mob on your own, while the pet classes can just sit and watch their pet wack things on their own.

you not suppose to ;)
at lev 1 you kill lev 1s
at lev 2 you still kill 1s cause its safer and faster
at lev 3 you can move onto lev 2s
at lev 4 you should still kill 2s
at 5, you can move onto 3s
etc ;)

[Kika Maslyaka]

No, you need programming knowledge to create custom content.

nope. none. If want to make custom scripted encounters, you can pick up a few things just looking at emu wiki for Perl usage.
Creating mobs, items, spells, populating zones, writing basic quests - requires ZERO previous programing knowledge.
Well maybe some math if you want to keep things balanced ;)

[IzHaN80]

you not suppose to ;)
at lev 1 you kill lev 1s
at lev 2 you still kill 1s cause its safer and faster
at lev 3 you can move onto lev 2s
at lev 4 you should still kill 2s
at 5, you can move onto 3s
etc ;)

Then why i can sit and watch while either my mage or necro can solo yellow con stuff just with the pet beating on them? The power margin doesn't makes any sense. I should be able to beat lvl 4 stuff at level 4.

[Tecmos Deception]

Then why i can sit and watch while either my mage or necro can solo yellow con stuff just with the pet beating on them? The power margin doesn't makes any sense. I should be able to beat lvl 4 stuff at level 4.

Because EQ isn't perfectly balanced in every way, as I know has been mentioned in this thread already. "Should" doesn't mean shit on a server that is intended to more-or-less recreate oldschool EQ as it was back in the day. You wanna complain about what kind of balance "should" happen in an MMO? Then go play a modern MMO.

[Tasslehofp99]

Then why i can sit and watch while either my mage or necro can solo yellow con stuff just with the pet beating on them? The power margin doesn't makes any sense. I should be able to beat lvl 4 stuff at level 4.

It evens out at around lvl 34 when wizards can start killing 4 mobs at a time and mages have to split exp with their pet or waste a lot of mana to get full exp.

[Cecily]

No shit Wizards are good for single-target raids. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about how a Wizard does during the REST of their gameplay, aka 99% of the time that most people put into playing their character. The skill system in Guild Wars is the ideal, as it makes each skill/spell potentially valuable for any level and you choose skills based upon what you want to do and what you have the skill to execute the best.

You might be surprised, but leveling to 60 is the minority of time many people here spend on their character. 3-4 months to get to 60 your first time, maybe? Add or subtract time based on how much playtime you have. But yeah, wizards are good at raiding and soloing. It's a specialist class that doesn't excel at much else, but they are very good at those two things. If raiding / quads aren't fun for you, you would be much happier on a different class.

Also, we just found the game you should be playing. Have fun.

[Zuranthium]

I should be able to beat lvl 4 stuff at level 4.

Actually it should be difficult to beat something equal to your level. That makes sense. What makes no sense in EQ, and makes the game much more tedious and skewed towards farming, is that a Level 4 target gives 78% more exp than a Level 3 target, but a Level 53 target gives only 4% more exp than a Level 52 target. The game rewards you less and less for killing difficult targets as you level AND targets continually get more and more difficult in relation to player level as you move past the mid levels! It's stupid.

[Cecily]

Maybe you'd prefer something with quest driven leveling. I hear those games are fun.

[Zuranthium]

You might be surprised, but leveling to 60 is the minority of time many people here spend on their character. 3-4 months to get to 60 your first time, maybe?

The game doesn't stop when you get to 60. The "farming" continues because people need to continuously clear out Hate/Fear/Sky or wherever else for drops. This is what should be described as "typical" high-end play and Wizards are absolute shit at it. These mobs all have tons of HP and require constant pulls to burn through them all and have a chance of getting the loot. Not only are Wizards poor because DPS is what really matters, and Wizards do far lower sustained DPS than melee, but they are also poor because their burst damage means virtually nothing. Like I've said before, they can't handle a single add on their own by blowing through their mana bar. All they can do is help push damage on the primary target, just like everyone else.

But yeah, wizards are good at raiding and soloing. It's a specialist class that doesn't excel at much else, but they are very good at those two things. If raiding / quads aren't fun for you, you would be much happier on a different class.

You've missed the point entirely. When people play an MMORPG and want to play a "Wizard", they want to play a character who can NUKE targets while grouping, in a meaningful way, throughout the duration of the time they play that character. Spell casting damage is something that tons of people find very fun. In EQ, spell casting damage becomes worse and worse as you move past the low levels. An entire archtype of RPG character becomes a joke

Also, we just found the game you should be playing. Have fun.

Nope. The game I want to play is something that does not exist and probably will never exist unless I'm suddenly surrounded by a talented design team to make a prototype and then someone funds millions and millions of dollars to bring the best MMORPG to date into existence.

[stonez138]

Then why i can sit and watch while either my mage or necro can solo yellow con stuff just with the pet beating on them? The power margin doesn't makes any sense. I should be able to beat lvl 4 stuff at level 4.

If it makes you feel better you'll get more xp killing a blue mob then a pet class does killing a yellow if their pet does all the damage. A lot more.

[Cecily]

Personally, I don't find spell casting fun. I do really love backstabbing people who do. I wish I wasn't so invested in blue, because I'd like to PK a sitting wizard with ragebringer just once.

[Potus]

Personally, I don't find spell casting fun. I do really love backstabbing people who do. I wish I wasn't so invested in blue, because I'd like to PK a sitting wizard with ragebringer just once.

You could probably get a Rogue to 60 and get an epic in less than a month on red. Just need a couple of people to duo/group with.

[leezard]

This post isn't about Wizards state at high level, but discussion about Verant's logic about how you're supossed to solo past level 4.

You're not. Verant designed the game to be a group driven experience. That is their logic. They also didn't design the game to be min/maxed (loleqminmaxing) but to be role-played. It really explains alot about why EQ is what it is.

[Fame]

You're not. Verant designed the game to be a group driven experience. That is their logic. They also didn't design the game to be min/maxed (loleqminmaxing) but to be role-played. It really explains alot about why EQ is what it is.

[Lojik]

Wizards are awesome. Projectile spam... mainly QSDF then SDR = win. SAFE spam pretty fun too.

[kylok]

Wizards are p fun in pvp. Make them newbs go boom.

[Nirgon]

[Mon Jun 02 23:20:22 2014] Dain Frostreaver IV hits YOU for 310 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 02 23:20:22 2014] Dain Frostreaver IV hits YOU for 300 points of damage.
[Mon Jun 02 23:20:23 2014] Your faction standing with Dain Frostreaver IV could not possibly get any worse.
[Mon Jun 02 23:20:23 2014] Your faction standing with Coldain has been adjusted by -775.
[Mon Jun 02 23:20:23 2014] Your faction standing with King Tormax has been adjusted by 750.
[Mon Jun 02 23:20:23 2014] You gained raid experience!


Necro'ing thread for Dain kill with everyone in classic gear/spells on live. Suck it rogues, pulled threat with a nuke right as he died :).

I have done the same on PD here, l2p~

[Daldaen]

Hmmm.

That live change that shows the amount of faction per kill will be quite useful.

[doughboy]

Hmmm.

That live change that shows the amount of faction per kill will be quite useful.

Its been discussed. Bunch of "its not classic" rage pretty much made it stop. Devs aren't going to invest time in to adding a cool feature just so people can cry about it.

[Daldaen]

Its been discussed. Bunch of "its not classic" rage pretty much made it stop. Devs aren't going to invest time in to adding a cool feature just so people can cry about it.
That's not the point in trying to make.

What I'm saying is we can check the exact faction hits per mob.

IE Dain reduces Coldain by 775. Does it here? If not it probably should. I doubt the size of faction hits has changed at all on Velious mobs.

[Nirgon]

I'm doing more raids until these guys are done. It feels very classic minus the guy with Garrison Sundering but I don't think he has Sunstrike so w/e. There's all kinds of good shit in those logs.

They are a pleasure to raid with. Their monk puller is a fucking beast too. Srsly now.

[myriverse]

That's not the point in trying to make.

What I'm saying is we can check the exact faction hits per mob.

IE Dain reduces Coldain by 775. Does it here? If not it probably should. I doubt the size of faction hits has changed at all on Velious mobs.
What those numbers mean (the range of scowling, threatening, etc.) has changed at least a couple times since the beginning of Velious.

[Nirgon]

Dain and Yelinak should be enormous negatives for their side and enormous positives for King Tormaxx. Appears to be pretty damn close if not exact. I'd need to see where Velious faction adjustments were EVER made on live to be convinced otherwise.

Then again, 'Ally' faction was added during Velious... maybe things were changed to be scalar. I think 'Ally' is max on live still atm and follows this same schema. At any rate ~750 trash mobs for 1 Dain kill sounds about right?




More the point and back on track wizard is bad ass situationally, l2p..

ie: quadding on a rogue vs being a wizard during constant infinite pulls... try parsing out a wizard in a short spawn list area like seb crypt as compared to rogue (and dat evac / heal interrupt - blocking a heal = stun damage + prevented heal in damage effectively...)....

[Erati]

wizards are great....til you run out of mana.

Need Rend robes, Manna Robes and epics then they are OP

before that.....you just end up feeling sad watching necros/enchanters and mages do laps around you soloing cash camps.

[Catashe]

Strike of Solusek, Harvest of Druzzil, AAs, Focus Effects and Flowing Thought fixed wizards.

PoP was an awesome point of balance. Rangers, Wizards and Druids - generally deemed to be some of the weaker all around classes here, become godlike with the addition of AAs and Luclin/PoP spells.

*Miss PoP*

Your not the only one.. I wish their was a server with the dedication of P99. I always thought Velious and PoP had the best raids that were actually fun. Although I hated Luclin and I don't think I could stand a server where you had to suffer through Luclin.
I know some will see this as blasphemy especially considering that PoP seemed to be consider the beginning of the end especially with all the free transports and the coming of GoD. But what can ya do.. I loved PoP, the higher end guilds had the elemental planes and the my casual guilds had the lower tiers to play in.. it was just fun..

[Nirgon]

wizards are great....til you run out of mana.

Need Rend robes, Manna Robes and epics then they are OP

before that.....you just end up feeling sad watching necros/enchanters and mages do laps around you soloing cash camps.

Is quadding the sea fury isle not running laps around a cash camp

inb4 overcamped too many 60s 3 years of kunark w/e





I believe GM Zade got an eyeful of the Bundyquest I did on the red seafury isle. 8)

[Erati]

I was gonna throw out that seafuries all they got hehe I was mostly referring to dungeon named cash camps

but even at seafuries necros/ench/mages can keep killing and killing a steady 1 at a time while wizards med forever after they quad

but dont get me wrong, i love wizards as that was my original character so thats why Im allowed to hate on them a bit :)

[Messianic]

Wizards suck aside from quad kiting, raiding, and PBAoE groups.

/thread

[Deltaloko]

I know some will see this as blasphemy especially considering that PoP seemed to be consider the beginning of the end especially with all the free transports and the coming of GoD...

Question:

In theory, couldn't someone make a server with PoP activated, but PoK books only being one way? Or not being active at all, and just having a different way to get to PoK?(Talk to the PoD like for gates, or something similar?)

I would love the functionality of pop, the content of pop, everything related to it, without actually including the fast travel.

[Velerin]

Unfortunately as the world got bigger and bigger you kinda just needed that fast travel.

When I first logged onto p1999, the first thing I noticed and loved was seeing people chilling in cities again. That pretty much died with the introduction of PoK.

[Deltaloko]

Unfortunately as the world got bigger and bigger you kinda just needed that fast travel.

When I first logged onto p1999, the first thing I noticed and loved was seeing people chilling in cities again. That pretty much died with the introduction of PoK.

I don't think that was the case in pop.

You would still need PoTranq to get through the PoP zones, but PoP didn't directly expand norrath any more than it was when velious launched.

Post PoP, it became more neccessary, but I think between norrath, the moon, and the planes, you had a good sized world that could still operate just on ports.

Also, i've taken this thread off topic, so heres my classic wiz story:

first char ever was a en erudite wizard. I was in tox forest, and completely blind. I knew ho wto put a spell in my book, but didn't know how spell gems worked. I ran around in pitch black, targeting snakes and trying to go into my spell book, click the spell, and drop them on the snake. I died 5 or 6 times until i gave up and made a warrior

[Nirgon]

Wizards suck aside from quad kiting, raiding, and PBAoE groups.

/thread

What about the things melees suck @ / can't do do at all that a wizard can

Wizards are exceptional in their areas of strength

Except Tishan's Relocation, who was on what drugs when they decided that port in spot

We also get IVU in Velious

[Clark]

wizards are great....til you run out of mana.

Need Rend robes, Manna Robes and epics then they are OP

before that.....you just end up feeling sad watching necros/enchanters and mages do laps around you soloing cash camps.

[Messianic]

What about the things melees suck @ / can't do do at all that a wizard can

See my post which you quoted.

[Nirgon]

See my post which you quoted.

Thread should be called

"Why do people suck at wizards"


:o

(and you left some stuff out)

[August]

I didn't read any of this thread so now I will share my opinion.

Wizards suck because their utility functions are redundant and they provide no other benefit except for damage.

Wizards get better when casters can actually increase their potency.

Melee classes benefit from haste, fungi tunics, better weapons - all of them increase their damage.

Caster classes cannot increase their DPS at all. It's static between levels. The only thing you can increase is your mana pool - which is really just a statement of 'I can get X amount of nukes from full'. In a sustained situation where you're never full mana, your mana pool actually means nothing. Mana regen is static, it does not scale with how much you have, so it really benefits you nothing.

This is the reason enchanters can sacrifice int for CHA - we really lose nothing, however CHA increases our potency as an enchanter due to increased charm times.

Enchanters also charm, which means our potency scales with level.

Necros can fear, feign death, have a pet, steal life (self heal) - this makes them more powerful. These are class abilities, though, and can't be buffed.

Same with mage. A mage is a wizard in this era that has a pet.

The game is completely broken for the wizard in specifics. To play one, you need to want their specific utility functions - ports, ae snare, ae dmg, and large nukes. A naked 60 wizard is just as good as a fully robed 60 wizard.

[Imslap]

The game is completely broken for the wizard in specifics. To play one, you need to want their specific utility functions - ports, ae snare, ae dmg, and large nukes. A naked 60 wizard is just as good as a fully robed 60 wizard.

Except Rend Robe / Manna Robe / Wizard Epic. All of which increase your potency

[August]

Except Rend Robe / Manna Robe / Wizard Epic. All of which increase your potency

Yes except for those extremely hard to get pieces that 99% of the population will never get on here :)

[Messianic]

Thread should be called

"Why do people suck at wizards"


:o

(and you left some stuff out)

Didn't leave anything else out. Unless you mean burst damage, which is entirely useless in a traditional group. The sustained dps of *any melee class* over time is more valuable than the wizard. A Necro or Mage's pet has higher sustained DPS than the wizard. So over the course of a successful group, you're better off having a Mage, Necro, or Chanter playing one-handed than having a wizard. Even a level 60 one.

"Oh no we overpulled we must have a burst nuker to survive"

Where's your CC? If he sucks or is dead, the wizard's burst will most likely not save you. Many other classes are far, far better options in this instance. Even at full mana dump, a wizard isn't outputting more than ~7500/8000 damage.

Go look at the hp levels for any of the major mobs in Seb, and also factor in that after a wizard mana dumps, you're out any DPS for 5-8 minutes.

Evac? Druids have that, spot heals, and their nukes are almost as efficient.

If all a wizard is good at doing is barely surviving when your group is failing, I think you've made my argument for me.

Stuns? Horribly aggro-prone and subject to resists in an end-level dungeon, even with Concussion. Might as well have a second chanter or Paladin if that's what you're after.

There's no argument for a wizard in a traditional xp group (see my original statement regarding PBAoE) other than there's no one better or you know the person and you know they won't screw up and cause a wipe.

"Knowing your class" doesn't help when your class simply cannot fit the role you're trying to put them in as well as any other class.

[Splorf22]

These wizard threads are all the same.

1. Some noob complains that either a) they feel underpowered as a wizard or b) they were told wizards suck or c) they were denied a group by a bunch of classists

2. Next, High-Level-Wizard X chimes in and points out, correctly, that Wizards are one of the best raid classes between ports and lures and can actually level pretty easily with quad kiting and chardok aoe; they just suck in XP groups.

3. Then Bad-Mathematician-Y takes tremendous offense at these comments, and claims how he knows the One True Way to play a wizard in xp groups to make them effective

4. Enchanter Z points out that Y is actually just playing a really gimp enchanter, and that an enchanter who doesn't charm can bring stuns, roots, 20 dps with tap-fueled nukes, and also massively powerful buff spells. And a charming enchanter is worth about 5 wizards.

At this point the thread will cycle through 1-4 for a random period of time.

[Messianic]

These wizard threads are all the same.

1. Some noob complains that either a) they feel underpowered as a wizard or b) they were told wizards suck or c) they were denied a group by a bunch of classists

2. Next, High-Level-Wizard X chimes in and points out, correctly, that Wizards are one of the best raid classes between ports and lures and can actually level pretty easily with quad kiting and chardok aoe; they just suck in XP groups.

3. Then Bad-Mathematician-Y takes tremendous offense at these comments, and claims how he knows the One True Way to play a wizard in xp groups to make them effective

4. Enchanter Z points out that Y is actually just playing a really gimp enchanter, and that an enchanter who doesn't charm can bring stuns, roots, 20 dps with tap-fueled nukes, and also massively powerful buff spells. And a charming enchanter is worth about 5 wizards.

At this point the thread will cycle through 1-4 for a random period of time.

Thanks - this is essentially what I was trying to avoid by putting it all out there at once :)

[Nirgon]

Might have to bring an end game wizard and rogue to seb crypt and run a parse for science.

Appears also that the bane lines in Velious don't require belly cast (on live my lures did, banes didn't) which is great for dropping 1-2 between AoE's and jumping back behind the wall. Between that and the epic on ToV fights, you'd never need heals from aoe damage.

The defense rests.

[fastboy21]

on a static server, the advantage of dps casters in classic eq is continuously strained by over equipped melee for era.

wizards **only** doing dps meant more in classic when the average lvl 10 rogue didn't have his epic and a haste item yet, etc.

on this server, pure caster dps here is far less impressive than it was on live.

[Messianic]

Might have to bring an end game wizard and rogue to seb crypt and run a parse for science.

Go ahead, but you don't need one. If the group is pulling more or less at capacity, the only relevant data is the wizard's mana regen rate and damage per mana (using Sunstrike @ ~3.59 damage per mana). That's their max sustained dps. It's really low compared to even poorly geared rogues at the same level, much less VP/epic rogues.

It's a really simple math problem.

Appears also that the bane lines in Velious don't require belly cast (on live my lures did, banes didn't) which is great for dropping 1-2 between AoE's and jumping back behind the wall. Between that and the epic on ToV fights, you'd never need heals from aoe damage.

Wizards suck aside from quad kiting, raiding, and PBAoE groups.

/thread

[Gaffin 7.0]

bad class is bad would not play or group even on red gg nt tho

rogues win

[Hailto]

Bouncer you still sober?

[Gaffin 7.0]

Yepp :D

[Hailto]

Nice

[iruinedyourday]

on a static server, the advantage of dps casters in classic eq is continuously strained by over equipped melee for era.

wizards **only** doing dps meant more in classic when the average lvl 10 rogue didn't have his epic and a haste item yet, etc.

on this server, pure caster dps here is far less impressive than it was on live.

This is very true, I remember pre kunark being in awe of my friends wizzy dps and thankful that I had one in my regular group. We also had a rogue, they were roommates IRL!

So that is a sad but true thought.