Shamen Vs. Druids as Soloers

[Estu]

After playing through a bunch of classes, I'm trying to decide between my ogre shaman and my wood elf druid as my soloing class (I have a paladin and a cleric for grouping; decided to go for a WIS caster partially since research seems like a giant pain and I'm neurotic about getting every spell). I'm leaning toward the shaman at the moment, but here are my pros and cons:

Shaman:
Pros:
- High strength makes carrying things easier
- Better armor
- Pet at 35 apparently makes life much easier; I have heard that this makes them one of the best soloers at 50, beating druids.
- Like the idea of root-rotting better than quad kiting; seems more versatile and somehow more pleasant
- Spells not interruptible by melee attacks, bashes from the front
- Better DoTs than druids? (I like DoTs since they're a very efficient mana-damage conversion, without making you get hit like thorns do.)
- Evil faction (can kill good NPCs, which are more plentiful than evil ones (by 'evil' I mean those that are friendly to evil races/classes) and not being killed as often; also, more novel). I intend to pretty much stay within the bounds of my factions for both characters and not try to farm up faction to get friendly with X or Y faction that hates me, or attack NPCs that would ruin factions that like me.
- More useful in groups (I'm planning to solo to 50, but I might want to group at 50.)
- Less represented on the server

Cons:
- Evil faction (not as many safe cities, boats are dangerous to get onto).
- No ports (I like the idea not only of porting myself, but of porting others. Both classes are helpful to other people since they have nice buffs, but the druid is clearly more helpful because of ports.)
- Low charisma (worse merchant prices). Presumably not as much of an issue later on when most money is made by player economy, though I don't know much about the validity of this point. Shamen do get a charisma buff, though.
- Slower to solo until 35.
- No forage, no hide, no tracking.
- No snare; have to rely on root or snareless kiting, take some hits in either case until I get the pet.
- No lull/harmony; have to avoid multiple-mob camps or break them through other methods (have considered doing multiple root-rot to break camps, though haven't reached 14 yet to try and put this into practice).
- 15% ogre EXP penalty.

Thoughts? Any points I missed? Any inaccuracies in the points I listed?

[Eternal-Elf]

Shaman > Druid. Especially when Kunark comes out.
I loved Shaman.
and I am not saying Druid is bad by any means, because they are awesome too....but it just seems you can't fart anyone on this server without a druid smelling it. they're everywhere.

[Estu]

Could you elaborate, Elf? Why do you like shamen better? What makes them better when Kunark comes? Keep in mind I'm mostly interested in soloing and I haven't ever had a character past around level 20.

[Eternal-Elf]

it HAS been a while.
In short-
Shaman has slow. This can make fighting ANYTHING a large ammount easier.
Shaman has better buffs IMO.
Shaman get bear form which i think > wolf form in looks.
Shaman gets Canabalize. What's better than unlimited mana......
Shaman gets best DoT's in the game in the end.....however I'm sure if that's pre-live status now.
Shaman also gets all the utility stuff of druid such as regen, SoW, heals, levitate, invis.....just no ports.


Don't get me wrong druid has an equally long list of great stuff.....but I just think you'd be happier as a shammy man.

Not to mention....try being a druid when Kunark comes out and they are wanting their epic. 500 druid wanting 1 drop....while 30 shamans are wanting theirs

[azxten]

I made a Druid for power leveling alts with my girlfriend. In my opinion Shaman is more interesting when raiding/grouping but Druid is a more enjoyable solo class and utility class. You can port all over the world for farming items, checking spawns, can power level people 1-20 in a few hours, etc. It's the ultimate "buff bot" type class whereas Shaman falls short in this respect. Of course, they have tons of buffs but nothing compares to thorns/regen for low level buffage.

Like I said.. Shaman is more interesting grouped/raiding and it will enable you to kill some harder boss mobs (more useful in Kunark+) that Druid can't handle but overall I like Druid as a more rounded class.

[yaeger]

Why is everyone concerned about soloing and picking the "best" class? The worst thing about picking the "best" class is you'll always have second thoughts while playing it.

Just pick one that you have the most fun with, and damn anyone else's opinion about it.

[Estu]

Fair point, azxten, but I don't plan on doing any power leveling. I'll hand out buffs to noobs just for the hell of it, but I'm probably not going to actually follow someone around for several levels buffing them.

[Estu]

Yaeger: I'm not really concerned with picking the 'best' soloing class, as it seems to be widely accepted that necros and mages make better soloers than shamen. I am in fact trying to figure out what class I'll have the most fun with. But at this point it's hard to tell, as I've only leveled them to 10, and their play styles will continue to change as I level.

[yaeger]

Yaeger: I'm not really concerned with picking the 'best' soloing class, as it seems to be widely accepted that necros and mages make better soloers than shamen. I am in fact trying to figure out what class I'll have the most fun with. But at this point it's hard to tell, as I've only leveled them to 10, and their play styles will continue to change as I level.

Their play styles will change, their role in group encounters, and their role from expansion balance changes. You might decide to roll a druid now because they rock in Classic, but they might get steadily weaker in later expansions.

That's why so many people urge people to play what they will enjoy. Once it changes down the road, and your casual mage solo class can't break camps and solo into dungeons, it's just a lot of wasted time on a class you really didn't enjoy playing.

[Eternal-Elf]

Eh I think he asked a pretty simple question, and wanted an answer to that question....not a pep-talk about blah blah blah.

He's already narrowed it down to druid and shaman.....seems like he knows what he wants.

[yaeger]

He wants an easy answer, there is none.

[Eternal-Elf]

lol not sure he was looking for answers....but rather opinions.

Just give yours on the 2 classes he was interested in.

I think Druid and Shaman are both great....but I just like one more =)

[Taluvill]

Im somewhat biased, but the soloing power of a druid is uncontested. Remember, Druids get harmony, and a good druid can break ANYTHING if it's outdoors.

I've always thought of shaman as more of a grouping class. With their buffage, slows, damage, pet, and heals, they are a very good group class.

I think if your looking for a primary soloing class, druids rock. root/rot and snare kiting are extremely effective at killing just about anything.

*EDIT* -- When I said uncontested, I wasnt thinking about a Necromancer, especially an Ikky Necro. sooo.... Yeah

[Gorroth]

1) Level druid to 50.

2) Auction for PL.

3) ???

4) Profit! Take money bath.

[Eternal-Elf]

Im somewhat biased, but the soloing power of a druid is uncontested. Remember, Druids get harmony, and a good druid can break ANYTHING if it's outdoors.

I've always thought of shaman as more of a grouping class. With their buffage, slows, damage, pet, and heals, they are a very good group class.

I think if your looking for a primary soloing class, druids rock. root/rot and snare kiting are extremely effective at killing just about anything.

*EDIT* -- When I said uncontested, I wasnt thinking about a Necromancer, especially an Ikky Necro. sooo.... Yeah

blah I forgot about Harmony.....that deff. gives druid the upper-hand soloing where more than 1mob is concerned. Kudos for that man!

[nalkin]

1) Level druid to 50.

2) Auction for PL.

3) ???

4) Profit! Take money bath.

druids are no where near the best PLers. They are only the best at like level 1-15, which isn't a high money PL level anyway.

[Estu]

I don't really believe in power leveling, so forget about that part :p

[Gorroth]

Nalkin, their damage shield stay relevant way into the high 20s, possibly higher. Once past a certain level, they usually supplement their damage shield with shaman DS potion.

Their regen, heals and HP/AC buffs are good at any levels.

Are they the best? Maybe not, but they're definitely the ones I see raking the most cash.

[Infectious]

If your gona solo with the chance of some groupage totally play shaman. In a group druid is pretty worthless since he cant break nada indoors and sucks at healing. Not to mention many outdoor camps dont need to be broken. And shaman can easily break a 2 or 3 camp by rootin, slow, dot and pet kite around. Druid only pro is ports which u bind in ec and can get a port easy almost anytime.

[azxten]

If your gona solo with the chance of some groupage totally play shaman. In a group druid is pretty worthless since he cant break nada indoors and sucks at healing. Not to mention many outdoor camps dont need to be broken. And shaman can easily break a 2 or 3 camp by rootin, slow, dot and pet kite around. Druid only pro is ports which u bind in ec and can get a port easy almost anytime.

Druid solos much faster than a Shaman when you can quad.

[azxten]

druids are no where near the best PLers. They are only the best at like level 1-15, which isn't a high money PL level anyway.

They are the best from 1-30 or so which is all most people want PLing for anyway. Sure, you might find the occasional person paying a bunch of money for high level PLing but the majority of the market is in getting people from 1-10, etc. People with tons of money to spend on high level PLing usually have friends, other accounts, etc to use instead.

[Noleafclover]

Nalkin, their damage shield stay relevant way into the high 20s, possibly higher. Once past a certain level, they usually supplement their damage shield with shaman DS potion.

Their regen, heals and HP/AC buffs are good at any levels.

Are they the best? Maybe not, but they're definitely the ones I see raking the most cash.

I only PL if I'm offered something obscene, like 1.5 an hour and in the mood (it's kinda prostitution) and I still think that's a better deal than dru pl from 15-40, where I excel. Would take several hours of dru pl to equal 1 hour of monk pl during those levels.

Monks get no respect, we PL better than drus and dps better than rogues (in classic, for the most part), but drus are "the plers" and rogues are "the dpsers."

As for dru vs. shaman - what are you trying to do? level fast? Then shaman.

Make money? spose end-game in classic, quadding seafuries is more money as a dru than a shammy makes. But I don't really know what end-game shammies do for money.

If you don't want to just solo, shammy is more valuable to a group by leaps and bounds in my book. Dru does what a lot of other classes do at weaker amounts, so they're good solo or for small groups because they're more varied - shammy brings buffs and higher mana regen to the pool, over drus.

[azxten]

Still confused why everyone thinks a Shaman levels faster than a Druid.

[quido]

Taluvill, your opinion is based in bias and not fact. Yes harmony is nice but it is outdoor only and shamans can CC with root. How much shit are you really trying to split outdoors and not quadkite at 50? Druids solo best quadkiting and even that results in a ridiculous amount of meditation time. I bet you that even minus my hammer I could kill at least 150% of the mobs that you could. Take away your manastone and I bet it's easily 200%. Druids are really kind of shit at generating damage, especially against a single target where it is extremely inefficient with regards to mana.

So to say that a druid soloing is uncontested is completely retarded. Shamans are better soloers, but so is every single int caster. Let's see a druid break a camp in lguk. I bet breaking Ass/Sup would run you out of mana.

[azxten]

so is every single int caster

So Wizards solo faster than Druids.. interesting since they both do the same exact thing.

[quido]

So Wizards solo faster than Druids.. interesting since they both do the same exact thing.

whoops forgot about them, lol, I mean necro/mage/enc

And you know it's true!

[azxten]

whoops forgot about them, lol, I mean necro/mage/enc

And you know it's true!

Necro has always been undisputed champion of soloing for exp, Mage is completely OP right now and everyone knows it, and I doubt Enc is faster than Druid. I watch Encs come to specs and it takes them just as long to charm fight down the 4 mobs as it does for me to quad and med. Shaman I just know sucks balls exp wise compared to quadding cause I've played a Shaman.

Also, it's a lot different having to continuously play to get your exp (Shaman) compared to quadding where you fight for 2-3 mins and go AFK for 5-10. Gives you a lot of room to do other stuff than playing EQ while you grind which is great.

[Taluvill]

Taluvill, your opinion is based in bias and not fact. Yes harmony is nice but it is outdoor only and shamans can CC with root. How much shit are you really trying to split outdoors and not quadkite at 50? Druids solo best quadkiting and even that results in a ridiculous amount of meditation time. I bet you that even minus my hammer I could kill at least 150% of the mobs that you could. Take away your manastone and I bet it's easily 200%. Druids are really kind of shit at generating damage, especially against a single target where it is extremely inefficient with regards to mana.

So to say that a druid soloing is uncontested is completely retarded. Shamans are better soloers, but so is every single int caster. Let's see a druid break a camp in lguk. I bet breaking Ass/Sup would run you out of mana.

Agreed. I do sometimes forget that I have my manastone = P

Take that away and, agreed, most of my soloing is crap. To say that SO many are better than a druid at soloing is retarded though. When we quad, we can make better exp than anyone(wizards rival us with their quads). Solo killing though? We're probably less efficient than a shaman, but and I'd bet i'd use about the same amount of mana as you. I'd like to test that one day, pet and no pet, would be interesting.

So yes, You win in that respect. Completely forgot about the manastone. I could break ass sup, and it prolly wouldnt run me out of mana, but damn close, manastone or not (I probably wouldnt even use it). I could probably solo arch magi, possibly break it. All of that just not as efficient as a shaman, and probably with more difficulty.

The harmony deal? Hit kunark and watch how much shit I can break = ). As of now, there really isn't much its needed for other than farming stupid places like Mistmoore or stupid shit.

[quido]

I guess what I'm talking about is more the situation once you reach level 50. I'm not sure, but I think that's what the OP is wondering about more here. Druids do level up faster, but come 50, that doesn't count for anything really. I'd say Shamans and Druids are on nearly equal footing in outdoors zones, but druids are fucking worthless indoors. And who spends a lot of their time killing shit outdoors at 50? Almost all the cool/challenging/lucrative mobs/camps are indoors. I can't speak for Kunark because I've never played it but I suspect that this is the case there as well.

[quido]

You really think a druid quadkiting at like level 40 generates better exp than a properly-geared enchanter banging a dungeon? I don't think so.

[azxten]

druids are fucking worthless indoors

Your primary method of soloing as a Shaman is either root rot or slowing mobs while you heal through it (which I think might be more of a torpor thing). So, Druids do the same thing indoors. How does that make them worthless indoors?

You have a serious problem with making retarded statements just like Talu said, "To say that SO many are better than a druid at soloing is retarded though." You take a tiny discrepancy and then turn it into this true/false statement. Is a Shaman better than a Druid indoors? Yes? Ok, then a Druid is now worthless indoors.

[yaeger]

They both suck, play a real class like a ranger.

[quido]

Your primary method of soloing as a Shaman is either root rot or slowing mobs while you heal through it (which I think might be more of a torpor thing). So, Druids do the same thing indoors. How does that make them worthless indoors?

You have a serious problem with making retarded statements just like Talu said, "To say that SO many are better than a druid at soloing is retarded though." You take a tiny discrepancy and then turn it into this true/false statement. Is a Shaman better than a Druid indoors? Yes? Ok, then a Druid is now worthless indoors.

Ok yes, saying a druid is worthless indoors is an overstatement. I think you're too defensive of your class though. Are you 50? Let's go side-by-side soloing indoors. I bet you feel pretty worthless. Yes we use the same general strategy, but the rate at which I can kill things is much quicker than you. Most of the really niche things a druid can do soloing are void indoors. Yes you can root too, druid! But then let's see you kill that mob. Then let's see you do it again without having to med for five minutes. Say whatever you like, I say we put it to a test if you want to argue. Let's piece together an objective system of gauging the solo abilities of a class indoors. We can speculate and argue until the cows come home (I don't know how long that takes but I think it's a long while, possibly never). Druids aren't just a little worse indoors; they are a lot worse. And I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just saying they're not nearly as effective.

[quido]

I could probably solo arch magi, possibly break it.


I really doubt that either of us could solo the Arch Magi. He would nuke the fuck out of us. He's nuked Malcolm's dar pets to death when I couldn't land enough stuns.

[azxten]

I really doubt that either of us could solo the Arch Magi. He would nuke the fuck out of us. He's nuked Malcolm's dar pets to death when I couldn't land enough stuns.

Why wouldn't you just root rot him around the corner where he can't cast?

[quido]

Why wouldn't you just root rot him around the corner where he can't cast?

Tal and I were just talking about this. I'm pretty sure that if a mob has line of sight on you when he starts casting he'll still land the spell on you unless you get out of his spell's range. So if AM starts casting nuke while rooted and I run around the corner, he'll still land the nuke. He won't be able to begin casting a second nuke until I enter his line of sight again, but clearly that'll need to happen. I don't know, I think it could possibly be done. I've been wanting to try on my shaman for a while. AM is also one of the most resistant mobs in Guk.

[kenzar]

Tal and I were just talking about this. I'm pretty sure that if a mob has line of sight on you when he starts casting he'll still land the spell on you unless you get out of his spell's range.

Negative, the mob will interrupt its casting and immediately try to reach LoS. If its rooted it just stops casting until you enter LoS again. So as long as your cast time was < the mobs cast time, you shouldnt ever get hit.

[Eternal-Elf]

Negative, the mob will interrupt its casting and immediately try to reach LoS. If its rooted it just stops casting until you enter LoS again. So as long as your cast time was < the mobs cast time, you shouldnt ever get hit.

Eh, i can't say from experience on the Arch magi....but Orc Prophet in Crushbone deff. doesn't need LINE of sight to blast the shit out of you. Pet was on him and rooted him right near Zone line and I went around corner.....still got blasted. I think it may be based on Zone structure as well not sure......

but if you get bored you can always go beat up on the orc prophet and test the theory lol!

[azxten]

In my experience some spells seem to continue casting and land at which point no other spells are cast until LOS is obtained. Other spells they'll fail to cast and try to get LOS immediately. Also, running out of spell range always guarantees they stop and chase.

In any case, even if he gets one or two casts off every time you have to reroot you should be able to heal/regen it back while you're sitting around waiting on DoTs/root to fade.

[quido]

I know the Ghoul Sage nails me around that corner every time I fight him.

[Taluvill]

Negative, the mob will interrupt its casting and immediately try to reach LoS. If its rooted it just stops casting until you enter LoS again. So as long as your cast time was < the mobs cast time, you shouldnt ever get hit.

This was exactly my point when I was talking with Jeremy about it.

Now, in theory it seems like it would work... But saying shit is a lot easier than actually doing it. I will probably go try in full resist gear in a few days or so, but it's half suicide, because if you get a bad root break, your fucked. He'll chain stun you so hard you wont be able to move.

It's definitely plausible on paper.

I do tend to agree with Jeremy though.
Soloing Indoors>> Shaman.
Soloing outdoors>>>Druid.
Take away the Shamans pet? We're on damn near equal footing indoors I do believe, if only because most strats we'd use are the same, and snare really doesn't change a whole lot indoors, other than a few more seconds of reaction time. Malo just makes a shamans life easier, and a shamans slow is just like a druids snare indoors, a few seconds more of reaction time, because I don't see a shaman meleeing down a mob in Lguk. And Jeremy, Yes, you are an exception.

Edit: Most mobs you want to farm are indoors. This is true. In Kunark, a lot of things are indoors, but zones like Karnors (IIRC, dont hate) and CoM are outdoors, where a druids stuns and other useful spells will work. Kunark+Druid is a lot more viable than you'd imagine Jeremy, although I know you haven't played it before.

Double Edit @ Ax: Ax, you wouldn't ever Root/Rot the Ghoul Arch-Magi, unless you want to 13 dmg a tick dot him to death. Things like Drifting death and Drones, and even Immolate I believe have a cast time that is MUCH too high to try and combat his cast time with. What ou would do, is load an older DD like Combust, and just root/nuke the fuck out of him. He is placed in a hallway, and you would snare/root and play the corners effectively IMO. Get a Drifting off if you can manage, but I think he would cast IMMEDIATELY when he sees you, and a computers reaction time is Instant.

[quido]

Slow affects attack speed.
Snare affects run speed.

A bard "slow" is both, but for shamans and druids, it only affects the one.

Take away the pet and we're almost on equal footing (Shamans still have much better DoTs and can Cannibalize and shit) but why the hell would you take away the pet? I have my pet up every time I'm soloing. And he's usually raid buffed =)

Take away a druid's XXXXXX and they suck!

Also, I take back what I say about AM being one of the most resistant mobs in Guk. I contend that he is the most resistant mob in Guk.

[Taluvill]

All im saying is that the pet really is what changes the game for you in the end. Canni, and even rage helps with the regen of mana, not exactly during the fight. So they are moreso efficiency spells. They make a big difference, sure, but per fight basis are completely null and void.

Snare effects run speed, and it gives you a few seconds of "Oh shit hes coming over here!!"

Slow effects attack speed, so he doesn't rip into you immediately, and it helps you get another cast off(root).

Edit: In essence, slow/snare do the same thing... just buy you more time.

[quido]

Saying Rage saves me some mana is an understatement. Rage not only saves me a shitload of mana by eliminating most of my need to heal, but it also can add to my mana by allowing more Cannibalize/Manastone. I don't think you realize the regen we get out of Rage; it is a ridiculous amount. I regen over 40 life a tick sitting. It's almost as much standing. So you can't really say it doesn't play a role in each fight. Rage helps me the whole time I have it up (which is always). And without your manastone - something most people don't have - that small amount of regen you do actually get from inherent and chloro does you no good once your health is full!

There are the shaman debuffs too. We have the best slow in the game (70%). That is a LOT of saved damage if I'm going to stand there and tank or let my pet tank. You can't really say that snare and slow do the same thing since snare does almost nothing indoors. Outdoors I'd rather have the snare usually, yeah, but when am I killing things outdoors? Rarely. Malosi is an incredible spell (minus 60 to ALL resists). Sometimes when my Ebolt (which does 1132 damage in 42 seconds) isn't doing full damage on a poison resistant mob, Malosi will put it to full. If I really want to be cool I'll throw Incapacitate into the mix.

Pets are part of the shaman class. You can't really say "well the pet is what sets you apart." Yes, it does further set us apart. The pet is what sets necros and mages apart. "Well, enchanter, you really aren't shit without charm and lull and mezz!" You just can't say something like that and expect it to stand as valid. "Well casters wouldn't be shit without mana!!!!"

[azxten]

does you no good once your health is full!


Thorns. Easily adds hundreds of damage to a fight just from root breaks, etc. Very mana efficient damage.

That is a LOT of saved damage if I'm going to stand there and tank or let my pet tank.

Druids don't tank so it's kind of silly to compare. Which leads to...

You can't really say that snare and slow do the same thing since snare does almost nothing indoors.

Actually it does a lot indoors. Your snare slows a mob 70% and reduces damage, what does snare and running down a hallway so you don't get hit at all for 5-10 seconds save? You can even snare and run back and forth in a tiny ass room and it's still a definite reduction in damage especially if you're smart and time it so you run right as the next melee attack is about to go off.

You can't really say "well the pet is what sets you apart."

Yeah he can, it's really the only reason you're better at soloing indoors. You might be able to kill faster indoors than Druids since we can't quad but it doesn't make you better at soloing. That's his point. Wow, great you can regen your mana blah blah blah. Who cares when it's 30 mins to the next respawn? All that really comes into play is how many mobs you can handle at the same time to break a spawn.

So, Druids can get to 50 faster with less actual playtime required (long meds between kites). They can port between multiple camps easily and bind at specific camps while leaving to do other stuff with no real time investment moving around. They have track to check zones for named mobs easily. Don't underestimate track. Just a couple days ago I ported into NK and hit track and got a werewolf medallion which I sold for 1k. Took me literally 5 seconds of work while on the way to doing something else. Shaman would have no idea it was up. Shaman can handle more mobs in a specific camp, regen mana faster if quick recovery is required, and whatever else.

My point is.. this discussion is stupid and I'm not sure why I'm posting here still. You make a big deal about not being able to claim the shaman pet sets them apart but you simultaneously refuse to acknowledge Druid's travel ability in terms of soloing mobs. Druids can cover a shitload of camps and especially rare mob camps, roamers, etc while Shaman is stuck picking a camp. Oh and in addition to that.. Shamen are ugly and they smell bad.

[Eternal-Elf]

forget shaman and druid.......

GO WIZARD!

[Weekapaug]

To the OP....I quit reading closely after about the 3rd "my classes' cock is bigger than yours" post but if you read back through all of this there is good info in this thread, especially the stuff about indoor versus outdoor. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the bickering, though. Both are great classes both for soloing and grouping...Loving your class and playing it well are more important than class choice IMO....I played a shaman live into the 70s as well as another to 50....My first druid past 20 is here on P99 and is my highest toon so far here, at 40. I love the shaman and I love the druid both.

My answer to your question: It depends on what you want to do and how you like to play.

First, the simple stuff...Druids regen mana the old fashioned way, by sitting. Shaman regen mana by cannibalizing and creating mana. Canni means that shaman will recover much faster on a kill-by-kill basis. This means that Shaman will kill faster overall, which means they will be more effective in tight spots (i.e. indoors). But canni requires work. You have to cast it, sit, cast, sit, etc to get the most bang out of it. Canni rules. But if you are the kind of soloer that likes to kill a mob and afk to do the dishes, watch tv, etc in between kills, the downtime of the druid may be better suited to your tastes. Also consider that to balance out Cannibalize, shaman spells tend to require more mana to do the same things. It's still a siginificant advantage that Shamans have, but like everything in EQ has downsides. Canni isn't just an advantage for shamans...it's pretty much required for them to run optimally, so if cast/sit/cast/sit during your downtime rather than being able to afk is a factor, bear all of that in mind.

That, to me, is really the big thing....how you would prefer your downtime to be and if you are soloing for easy kills outdoors or for the challenge of soloing indoors. BTW, despite what some other posters say, Kunark brings lots of outdoor soloing opportunities with it including good drops....But it's dungeons are awesome as well.

Some other random thoughts to consider that I don't think have come up in the thread....

Not all dots are the same. Shaman get some big beefy ones, but the main lines are poison and disease based, and there's an aoe line that can be stacked on top of them as well as the epic dot, assuming you get it...In a practical sense, at any given time you will have 2 maybe 3 dots you can stack. With the exception of the epic dot, as far as I recall all shaman dots have a DD component to them, which means they are likely to break root more often. Druids main line of dots are magic based with no DD component (they dont break root) AND they all stack with all the others within that line. This is pretty awesome (and the biggest most pleasant surprise I've had playing the class, honestly) because by being magic based, they tend to not be resisted. At all. By anything. I think I've had a magic based druid dot (the fire ones are another story) resisted by mobs maybe a handful of times at this point, and I've played around with kiting crap 10-15 levels higher than me at times. Even if you cant stick a snare on something you can still dot and haul ass...If you are well geared and have Clarity. I was in average gear at the time, but with a fresh clarity I soloed the HG in North Karana at level 24 or 25 with my druid. It took 20-25 mins and I had to run for my life the whole time but I did it. I've found since that if a mob can be snared and there is room to kite, I can pretty much kill it, regardless of level. All of that said, I'm pretty sure the shaman dots pack a bit more of a punch later on, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

Shamans will kill things and recover faster but they also have to be a race with an experience pentalty. On the flip side of that, those large races that they all have to be (eventually iksars are added but they aren't large) all get racial Slam, which is basicly like a free chance to interrupt a caster if you are in melee range and it refreshes just like shield Bash. Trolls get the worst exp penalty in the game but they also get racial regen that stacks with items and spell regen.

Druids are much easier to gear up (my druid is 200 wis untwinked at 40 and the only significant piece of gear I have is a PKT which I got lucky with the drop on running thru dagnors one night) and the races they can be have higher starting wisdom. Shamans can make mana with Canni, but until they get amazing gear they tend to have a smaller mana pool (and spells that require more mana). My 200 wis druid also takes 10 mins 37 seconds to regen a full bar of mana (8:52 with clarity) at level 40. That could be a good or bad thing depending on how you play.

A couple of the druid races get racial hide. I LOVE my hide on my druid. You can kite something, hide, and afk for as long as you want, knowing that you are pretty much safe...couple this with long duration wolf form and the self buff and all you have to do is kite something and hide between afks.

I enjoy soloing. I enjoy raiding. I play EQ to group, ultimately. If this is a factor, bear in mind that in all 3 of those areas, the druid increasingly takes a backseat to other classes in most respects. It really is a jack-of-all trades class ultimately. Shamans get increasingly better in addition to being THE buffers and THE slowers.

When I solo with my druid, I miss slow, good buffs and canni. When I solo with my shaman I miss snare, ds, track. Playing a porting class spoils you, it goes without saying.

When I solo my druid I feel like I own the outdoors...I've felt this way on my bards also. When you play your shaman you will, at some point, feel like superman.

All in all, I feel that the druid gets better utility than the shaman does. But I feel that the shaman is overall more effective.

I play a 21 shaman here with my girlfriend's necro and I decided the other day that it's seriously in danger of becoming my main toon here. On that very same day I told her something like "If there is ever another classic server, please smack me in the side of the head if I start with any class other than a druid." I'm a melee-dps/bard at heart, with priests/healers coming in a close second, if that offers any perspective on my tastes. It's really hard to beat that druid utility, but I know in my heart that the shaman is probably the better choice for main character in the long haul past original classic-era.

Figure out what's best for you....indoors vs outdoors, root/rot vs kiting, long med times vs canni. Is this toon purely for solo or do you plan to group/raid also? Is it your main?

It's really a matter of what you want to do and how you want to play.

[baub]

downtime, ports, track

vs

no downtime, versatility, god mode

the only problem with sham outdoor soloing is running out of shit to kill

thats pretty much what it comes down to sir, not sure about ogre though, real men wear kilts!

[Estu]

The huge downtimes for druids are really what caught me by surprise, having woken up and read all the replies here. Big downtimes really leave a bad taste in my mouth, especially after playing WoW, where soloing some classes you get 0 downtime and soloing others you get like 30 seconds to a minute at most. That's one thing WoW really does better than EQ (unless EQ does it purely to motivate grouping) - a game forcing you to wait 10 minutes between fights, even if you're taking down multiple mobs, is doing something VERY wrong. I was expecting more downtime for druids to be sure, but 10 minutes (I understand this is an upper bound, but even 5 minutes is ridiculous)? It sounds like a parody of an MMO! I've been swinging back and forth a bit through this thread between druid and shaman, but those ridiculous downtimes have finally pushed me definitively to the shaman. If I am looking to play something with big downtimes between fights, I'll consider leveling my druid or wizard, but for now, looks like the shaman's going to be my main. Thanks for the input, everyone.

[Overcast]

To sum it up - in my mind.. .

The Shaman's good in tighter quarters, but reallys needs all those buffs to do best. In a group, they will be buffing like mad and medding a lot. Canni will make a big difference, but need to get there first, of course.

Druid's insane in open/outdoor areas, very efficient. With ports, if one area's too packed, you can be at another in minutes. In a group, you just have the skin line, maybe STR, and DS to keep up. So you can toss a bit more DPS and keep things snared. If you need a clarity just run to EC and you can probably get one for a donation. Shaman may have a bit more STR, but the druid can bind at their hunting spot, zip off to a druid ring to sell, gate back and it's on again.

In terms of raw speed, a druid is a great PL'er - DS and heals. Enough said. The shaman, with the array of buffs will get those skills up fast for the person being leveled. But will be a bit slower, overall as 'free DS dmg' isn't there.

Personally, I went shaman too - but after 80 levels / 500+ AA's of Necro-ing, I'm not up to kiting.

[Skope]

There are quite a few downsides to shamans as well. Some to keep note of are:

Lack of ability to split. Root works, sure, but sometimes it just doesn't cut it.

No real DDs. Though you get the 2nd best DoTs in the game (behind necros), sometimes certain mobs require a "kill it with fire!" type of strategy. You're built for efficiency, thus a caster mob can and will tear you in half.

No real stuns. Bash works, but there is no stun that you can cast. It can be supplemented by things like equipping a howling harpoon.

Expensive! you will see a large disparity between a poorly equipped shammies ability to solo and one that's very well equipped. in full rune-etched, black saph and a barb spiritist's hammer i can kill seafuries non-stop for a whole hour until i need to rebuff myself. The mana return on cannibalize and rage/chloro means I don't have to med to rechloro, haste or slow any mobs i encounter. In both hate and fear i can off-tank pretty much any trash mob in the plane. At 230 dex, it's actually more efficient killing furies than killing them with a necro (though not a mage).

come kunark/velious, shamans have great efficiency, but it comes at the cost of speed. Your battles will be drawn-out in order to maintain that great efficiency.

On the plus side:

They have the most efficient mana return in the game. Unlike necros, they can actually cast their mana regen spells with a clarity>KEI.

They have the best regen in the game due to spells/items available to them.

2nd best DoTs, only behind necros. With a pet and decent melee proc items they can do a decent amount of damage while melee'ing.

Best debuffs/buffs in the game, by far. Shamans get the best malise, best slow and great weakens, allowing a shaman to melee a summoning mob down while still maintaining efficiency.


Druids are better at soloing outdoors. They also have the ability to quad, which boosts their efficiency tremendously. Snare is a safer spell than root (in particular shammy root) when dealing with adds, and harmony is second to none.

if it's your first character, i'd suggest going druid.

[Tork]

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but '30 seconds to a minute a most' downtime for soloing sounds like a parody of an MMO to me - different perceptions I guess.

I like that EQ is hard, and that classes are profoundly different - I dislike how many MMOs feel like single player games with an over abundance of poorly named, scripted and AI'd mobs.

[Estu]

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but '30 seconds to a minute a most' downtime for soloing sounds like a parody of an MMO to me - different perceptions I guess.

I like that EQ is hard, and that classes are profoundly different - I dislike how many MMOs feel like single player games with an over abundance of poorly named, scripted and AI'd mobs.

There's a difference between actual difficulty and sitting for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's a thoroughly stupid mechanic. EQ has ups over WoW in real difficulty, but huge downtimes are pointless - again, unless they're meant to force you to group, but a druid presumably is supposed to be able to solo. And really, I don't see how WoW mob AIs are worse than EQ mob AIs.

[Itchybottom]

There's a difference between actual difficulty and sitting for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's a thoroughly stupid mechanic. EQ has ups over WoW in real difficulty, but huge downtimes are pointless - again, unless they're meant to force you to group, but a druid presumably is supposed to be able to solo. And really, I don't see how WoW mob AIs are worse than EQ mob AIs.

I've given up on reasoning with most of the EQ > WoW crowd.

Back to the thread through, shaman can definitely handle dungeons better than a druid. I found myself relying on my warden symbol of Tunare in dungeons, because all of my mana was spent on root rotting stuff that'd kill me if it got in range (even kobold shamans, in SoldungB for example.) My shaman friends however, just sicked dogdog on whatever, slowed the mob, and walked up and started beating the crap out of it with his Gardash occasionally re-applying ebolt. It continued like that all the way through Luclin in Maiden's Eye. I was stuck kiting crap, my shaman friend was always right in the thick of it. Shamans can afford more mistakes.

[purist]

To the OP who said something about Shaman soloing being more "pleasant" than Druids. There's nothing pleasant about having a DoT that costs 15-20% of your mana pool get resisted two-three times in a row, or having a root break after 0.5 seconds after landing. And then watching a Mage waltz into your camp and dominate it without breaking a sweat. Expect to be frustrated, especially 'till 34. There's no pleasantry to be had here.

[Rael]

Shamans are KOS?

[Estu]

Shamans are KOS?

Ogres are.

[Tetrian]

I've given up on reasoning with most of the EQ > WoW crowd.

Back to the thread through, shaman can definitely handle dungeons better than a druid. I found myself relying on my warden symbol of Tunare in dungeons, because all of my mana was spent on root rotting stuff that'd kill me if it got in range (even kobold shamans, in SoldungB for example.) My shaman friends however, just sicked dogdog on whatever, slowed the mob, and walked up and started beating the crap out of it with his Gardash occasionally re-applying ebolt. It continued like that all the way through Luclin in Maiden's Eye. I was stuck kiting crap, my shaman friend was always right in the thick of it. Shamans can afford more mistakes.

Considered boosting your AC and getting a fungi tunic instead of going for the standard 200 wis and + mana deal? - The only time you need the wisdom and mana is when you fill the bar prior to a kite or similar. This game is all about the mana/health regen and damage mitigation especially in dungeons. Most druids in live never got that memo.

Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying that shamans dont have a safer margain when it comes to bad luck on ressists simply due to slow, but i'd wager a bet that a druid can manage any encounter a shaman can do, with the right gear and gimmic items present.

Most druids in EQ played like retards on live. When in fact the class, with the right gear, is close to ideal for almost any solo encounter, indoors and out.

Druids are the pretty much the most versatile and powerfull class in this game, especially after kunark - Sure shamans do have a small edge on em straight up due to slow/canni but they also have some down sides, One of them is that they get to walk for it - A druid who fails at something is only a few minutes away from another go.

Another thing is ressists on dots. Druid dots are extremely effective both ratio and ressist wise. Same goes for damage shields. If potion stacked they rape face.


-Tetrian

[Darkath]

Hey everyone!

I've been following this and other discussions related to the Shaman as of late, and the class seems quite interesting to me. I wanted to know how realistic is to play the class as a melee class which could take in hits, dishes out damage with melee attacks and spells.

I had thought at first that probably the Sk or the Pally would suit this play style better, so I picked a Troll SK. I quickly found that is was simply impossible to keep up with the damage of mobs or that they just took to long to die, damaging me too much in the process.

My characters are measly geared (I've tried like 3 classes, none of them made it past lvl 14 :P) so I'm not really in a position to twink out a shammy. Give this situation, will I be able to play the shammy as I want to? Or does it really need to be very twinked for him to melee/cast mobs down?

[Skope]

Hey everyone!

I've been following this and other discussions related to the Shaman as of late, and the class seems quite interesting to me. I wanted to know how realistic is to play the class as a melee class which could take in hits, dishes out damage with melee attacks and spells.

I had thought at first that probably the Sk or the Pally would suit this play style better, so I picked a Troll SK. I quickly found that is was simply impossible to keep up with the damage of mobs or that they just took to long to die, damaging me too much in the process.

My characters are measly geared (I've tried like 3 classes, none of them made it past lvl 14 :P) so I'm not really in a position to twink out a shammy. Give this situation, will I be able to play the shammy as I want to? Or does it really need to be very twinked for him to melee/cast mobs down?

You'd probably need to be twinked well at early levels to melee down mobs. At lvl 39 you get togor's insects which helps mitigate the damage you take. As you get higher in level it gets progressively harder to tank mobs as a shaman if you aren't geared for it.

Is it possible? Absolutely. By the time you reach level 50 you will have time to farm some gear and perhaps pick up some rune etched and it will make your life incredibly easier.

[Harrison]

There's a difference between actual difficulty and sitting for 10 minutes doing nothing. It's a thoroughly stupid mechanic. EQ has ups over WoW in real difficulty, but huge downtimes are pointless - again, unless they're meant to force you to group, but a druid presumably is supposed to be able to solo. And really, I don't see how WoW mob AIs are worse than EQ mob AIs.

"I'm going to stop chasing you and run back to my circlejerk of other mobs, because I am so fucking artificially intelligent."

Tethering of mobs = joke

[Itchybottom]

"I'm going to stop chasing you and run back to my circlejerk of other mobs, because I am so fucking artificially intelligent."

Tethering of mobs = joke

Oh? Kunark? :p

[Estu]

"I'm going to stop chasing you and run back to my circlejerk of other mobs, because I am so fucking artificially intelligent."

Tethering of mobs = joke

THAT'S your complaint? Really? The fact that mobs don't run after you all the way to the zone? That's not bad AI, that's a design choice. Just like the design choice in both EQ and WoW that mobs who are about 10 feet away from each other and friendly with each other won't group aggro if you pull one and not the other, but if they're 9 feet away, they will.

Some camps have inseparable mobs, but a lot of them have some separable mobs, and it makes no sense from the standpoint of being realistic, since of course the mob in real life would be able to see its friend being attacked - but from a gameplay standpoint it makes sense that you don't want every friendly mob within 100 feet running after you the moment you attack its buddies, or even worse, the moment you walk into that huge radius that mobs would realistically notice you and start attacking.

And honestly, WoW mob tethering makes some sense even from an AI standpoint, because sometimes if you're pissed at someone you don't want to run for miles after them; if they start to run away, you might just go back to your house and sit there and lick your wounds.

From a design standpoint, it's a device to make the game a bit more convenient for the player. It makes the game easier in exchange for losing some of the riskiness and immersion of EverQuest, just like a lot of other things in WoW, but that doesn't make it necessarily worse. I can see the appeal of both options. I did get tired of WoW and go back to EverQuest, so maybe that speaks to something.

But honestly, calling that "bad AI" is just a thoroughly ridiculous statement. Try being less irrationally angry at WoW.

[Lill-Leif]

Haha, I never knew the word cirkeljerk before I read this thread!

[Overcast]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_Jerks

[guineapig]

In a dungeon you are definitely better off being a shaman than a druid. Druids loose a ton of spells indoors and the things that make druids efficient don't work in dungeons for the most part. Sure we can root rot mobs but only if there are no casters around.

Outdoors, the druid is king. Harmony for splitting, being able to quad kite, and teleporting anywhere at any time. Not to mention their nukes are nothing to sneeze at either. Later on we even have a bit of mana regen. Sure a shaman can tank and spank the hell out of mobs but druids have more versatility in the open plains and hills of Norrath.

Shaman will (almost) always be more desirable in groups.
Exceptions to this rule include: AoE groups, groups with no melee (pet groups), when quick travel and evac are a must, or if you already have an enchanter.

I really feel like the 2 classes have always had a very good balance going.

[Phelp]

Most druids in EQ played like retards on live. When in fact the class, with the right gear, is close to ideal for almost any solo encounter, indoors and out.

Druids are the pretty much the most versatile and powerfull class in this game, especially after kunark - Sure shamans do have a small edge on em straight up due to slow/canni but they also have some down sides, One of them is that they get to walk for it - A druid who fails at something is only a few minutes away from another go.

Another thing is ressists on dots. Druid dots are extremely effective both ratio and ressist wise. Same goes for damage shields. If potion stacked they rape face.


-Tetrian

I really wonder if you actually played EQ after kunark or even through kunark. Ports were god like, quading was damn nice. That is about all they had going for them. Take a druid and shaman into an item camp(most of them were indoors) and the shaman would smash just about any druid even if they were not stupid druids.

I do not see how you can even put them in same catagory.

[garyogburn]

I know a few druids who quit in the high 30s on p99. Why? Theyre terrible groupers. They dont have anything another class doesnt already have covered.

So, if you go druid, its good to know you can quad, because its all you will be doing post 34.

[Estu]

I know a few druids who quit in the high 30s on p99. Why? Theyre terrible groupers. They dont have anything another class doesnt already have covered.

So, if you go druid, its good to know you can quad, because its all you will be doing post 34.

Why 34?

[garyogburn]

WoW is easier than EQ because theres no risk. To anything.

Also, you can 1 shot even con mobs.

[guineapig]

I know a few druids who quit in the high 30s on p99. Why? Theyre terrible groupers. They dont have anything another class doesnt already have covered.

So, if you go druid, its good to know you can quad, because its all you will be doing post 34.

I wouldn't go that far.
Sure other classes have the same thing druids have but druids get it all in one.

Damage shield, spot heals, snare, root, stun (outdoors only), AoE lull (outdoor only) pretty decent nukes, a couple buffs, teleports and evacs. Would you rather wait around to find a class that can do one of those things or just grab the class that can do all of the above (if they are already LFG anyway)?

So while a druid isn't the best at these things, it's never a bad idea to have one in the group if there is a spot open. Who doesn't want to carry around a swiss army class with them?

[garyogburn]

I wouldn't go that far.
Sure other classes have the same thing druids have but druids get it all in one.

Damage shield, spot heals, snare, root, stun (outdoors only), AoE lull (outdoor only) pretty decent nukes, a couple buffs, teleports and evacs. Would you rather wait around to find a class that can do one of those things or just grab the class that can do all of the above (if they are already LFG anyway)?

So while a druid isn't the best at these things, it's never a bad idea to have one in the group if there is a spot open. Who doesn't want to carry around a swiss army class with them?

While its true they are a jack of all trades, they arent even the best at that. Shamans are.

Im not saying theyre worthless, its just theres many better choices. And would you really want to play a druid, just sitting in a group redoing thorns, throwing the occasional nuke with a finger over the evac button?

Druids really only shine in outdoors solo environments.

[guineapig]

While its true they are a jack of all trades, they arent even the best at that. Shamans are.



I would not consider Shaman to be the best Jack of all trades. Just my personal opinion but I think bards come in on top in terms of versatility. Necros and Enchanters would most definitely top shaman in terms of versatility as well due to their ability to help mana regen, crowd control, lull, charm, FD, rune, stun, syphon mana, etc.

Shaman can offtank, they have great damage potential, amazing buffs and root.

Druids can't offtank but they can do all of the rest and much more. So despite shaman being better buffers it doesn't make up for their lack of post, evac, snare, harmony, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree that shaman are much better at certain things like I stated before, but their pure versatility factor is not as high (once again, in my opinion) as some would make them out to be.

Also, as I have stated before, there are better choices for each job a druid can handle. A druid just happens to be able to a bit of everything.

[garyogburn]

I would not consider Shaman to be the best Jack of all trades. Just my personal opinion but I think bards come in on top in terms of versatility. Necros and Enchanters would most definitely top shaman in terms of versatility as well due to their ability to help mana regen, crowd control, lull, charm, FD, rune, stun, syphon mana, etc.

Shaman can offtank, they have great damage potential, amazing buffs and root.

Druids can't offtank but they can do all of the rest and much more. So despite shaman being better buffers it doesn't make up for their lack of post, evac, snare, harmony, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree that shaman are much better at certain things like I stated before, but their pure versatility factor is not as high (once again, in my opinion) as some would make them out to be.

Also, as I have stated before, there are better choices for each job a druid can handle. A druid just happens to be able to a bit of everything.

Fair enough. Shamans still beat out those classes in versatility you mentioned due to being able to heal better than any class than a cleric, imo though.

[guineapig]

Fair enough. Shamans .... able to heal better than any class than a cleric, imo though.

I completely agree with this part.

[Hindace]

I played a shaman all the way through the Dragons of Norrath expansion in EQLive. I know I am completely biased but I feel they are the best class in both soloing and grouping, when compared to druids. The one thing I will about shaman in the negative is that getting through the low to mid 20's is a bear. It gets a little easier at about 25+. Once you hit level 34 and get your pet and HP buffs, you are a GOD. I remember when Velious came out and I was the only person on our server that was soloing certain DRAGONS in the Western Wastes (just had to find the ones that did not summon and I was golden).

[Tetrian]

Estu, Druids get their first real quadding spell at 34.

[Estu]

Can't you start quad kiting at 14 by just snaring four mobs separately and then AOEing them, since you have SoW and can easily keep your distance from them?

[Skope]

Yes, actually. You just need to stack +mana gear instead of +wis and you'd be golden.

As i stated in this thread before, I've played a shaman on live and am playing one here, but when it comes to a first character you're almost certainly better off with a druid.

Shamans are incredibly versatile in group/solo situations, and even more so on raids, but they're also hard to master and play correctly. It's not a class for the lazy, and the player should be mashing more keys than a bard twisting 4 to truly use a shammy to its full potential.

I made the choice of going necro for my first char because they level incredibly quick and aren't very gear dependent (or at all, really). This allowed me to spend about 50k on the shaman before it even dinged level 2, which helped immensely. If you don't have that sort of funding you should expect somewhat of a struggle to level 34.

EDIT: if you're going for a solo shammy, i think ogre is absolutely the way to go. Stun immunity is critical when trying to land that timely torpor/root.

[Tetrian]

Well, i assume you are referring to cascade of hail, which is a rain type spell and as such not really effecient for AE kiting.

Its the AE lightning spell line that really enables AE kiting for druids - and it starts out at 34 :)

[Tallenn]

Actually, there is an AE DD lightning spell at 5.

The difficulty with quadding prior to level 34 is two-fold: First, the level 1 snare spell doesn't really last long enough to snare four mobs, round them up in a tight group, and then kill them before snare starts to wear off. Second, the level 5 spell doesn't really do that much damage, so it takes a considerable number of casts to kill anything.

The reason quadding isn't really viable for druids until 34 is that is when they get the next AE DD spell (there's no upgrade between 5 and 34), and when they also have the long-lasting ensnare spell, which they get at 29.

There's also another difficulty in quadding, even after 34: lack of suitable targets. There are a really limited number of suitable mobs for quadding in the old world (at least 4 mobs semi-close together of the same type, must be non-casting, and must be able to single kite them with lightning spell with at least 40% mana left over). Once Kunark is released, that issue almost gone, and with Velious, is completely gone (Velious has TONS of great quadding targets for all levels, 34-60).

[Estu]

Huh, so I guess druids have it pretty rough until 34, just like shamen. My shaman has actually been having a BITCH of a time soloing at levels 11 and 12 - he's just wearing banded, a kite shield, and a fine steel spear. For a bit at 9 and 10 I did dot kiting since I have SoW, but now it's not really worthwhile and I might as well melee; but it takes a lot of time to take down monsters and rest up afterward. I think a quality weapon and maybe some more AC could make a big difference; considering just farming some plat with a necro and then raising the shaman :p. I was hoping level 14 would be a big boon, too, but I don't get new dots until 19 and the root isn't going to make that big a difference in total amount of time spent killing + medding.

[HippoNipple]

Huh, so I guess druids have it pretty rough until 34, just like shamen. My shaman has actually been having a BITCH of a time soloing at levels 11 and 12 - he's just wearing banded, a kite shield, and a fine steel spear. For a bit at 9 and 10 I did dot kiting since I have SoW, but now it's not really worthwhile and I might as well melee; but it takes a lot of time to take down monsters and rest up afterward. I think a quality weapon and maybe some more AC could make a big difference; considering just farming some plat with a necro and then raising the shaman :p. I was hoping level 14 would be a big boon, too, but I don't get new dots until 19 and the root isn't going to make that big a difference in total amount of time spent killing + medding.

I would just stick with it if a shaman is what you want to be. Just try to find a group, or go get buffs at EC tunnel and head to north ro.

Once you get 14 or so just hang out in Oasis with a group. Every spell level you get the better you will be at soloing. Shamans are really good in groups, and great at solo once they get a little higher.

Making another character just to farm stuff for another character you really want to be is not efficient. It may be easier to level a necro but not that much easier.

[Estu]

RE Hippo: The thing is, I'm not crazy about being a shaman; necros sound fun to play too. For grouping I'd rather play my cleric or paladin. I like the prospect of shaman soloing but I like the prospect of necro soloing too; if necro soloing is less gear-dependent and I'd like to try both anyway, why not do that one first?

[Tallenn]

Actually no.

A druid can single-kite quite effectively starting at 14 (with limitations- no really good DD spell until 19, except for DD vs summoned, but lots of good summoned targets in Lavastorm for 14-19).

At 19, get a good all-target DD spell, so getting to 34 is pretty easy. Plus, they start getting self ports at 19, so it's much easier to go around to different hunting areas.

On my druid, I made level 14-24 probably as fast I did 1-14, maybe faster.

[guineapig]

Huh, so I guess druids have it pretty rough until 34, just like shamen.

Not at all. I soloed my druid well into my 30's. Just used a combination of snare kite and root rot. Snare kiting is more fun but root rot gives you more time to med. Also the root doubles as a small nuke which is a nice touch.

The Karanas are your friend. Sure you are not getting a nice ZEM like in a dungeon but the hunting grounds are endless in your 20's. Once you hit 30 you should be able to solo the Splitpaw spires and even the mobs inside.

Haven't soloed a shaman in like 6 years so I can't say how much better or worse off they are from 20-34. I do recall doing a bit of snare kiting on live (Innoruk necklace) but I don't remember how successful I was.

[Skope]

if you strictly want a class that can solo and plan to play a paladin/cleric in groups then i'd suggest making a necro over a shaman.

Shaman are incredible soloers, but necros are bar-none the best soloers in EQ from classic>velious and further. If you muster up some courage and a bit of flat-out stupidity, necros can do some absolutely amazing things.

[Estu]

I think I'm actually probably going to take Hippo's advice and group with my shaman until he can solo, but also play a necro in parallel. I like to have a bunch of characters to choose from anyway. It's silly to abandon the shaman altogether until I can twink him just because the first half of his levels are a pain to solo.

[guineapig]

Yeah man, just keep your LFG tag up while your soloing but be picky about which group invites you take. Groups are great for some burst exp but rarely come when you're looking for them.

Enjoy the fact that which ever class you pick you will have the best of both worlds at your disposal.

(I'm shocked that these classes didn't get the exp penalties instead or rangers, SK's and Palies... Bards I understand though.)

[Bubbles]

RE Hippo: The thing is, I'm not crazy about being a shaman; necros sound fun to play too. For grouping I'd rather play my cleric or paladin. I like the prospect of shaman soloing but I like the prospect of necro soloing too; if necro soloing is less gear-dependent and I'd like to try both anyway, why not do that one first?

For the record: a well played necro can make nearly any group composition work, whether it's 2-6ppl. I find the necro far more versatile than even my cleric in making random XP groups viable. Hell I was main healer on ice giants last night using pact.

[madara]

Was kinda hoping 14 was when the pain of being a druid lessens. I think in the last seven days I did 3 yellow into 12.

[mgellan]

Huh, so I guess druids have it pretty rough until 34, just like shamen. My shaman has actually been having a BITCH of a time soloing at levels 11 and 12

I took my shammy from 11-14 kiting yellow baby mammoths in EF - SOW on, stand at casting limit, cast Tainted Breath, run for 10 secs, stop for 2 secs (to avoid interrupts), cast Sicken, take 26 damage as he catches up to you, run til DOTs drop, rinse and repeat. Very simple, they seldom resist, and you take little damage even if you stand and recast on fizzles and resists. Worst case abort and run to Bandl and Dom so they kill the mob(s) if you get too low on health mana or (as was usually the case) pick up an orc or skelly that cause interrupts when you stop to cast. At 11 I got almost 2 blue from some yellows, and at 14 about 3/4 of a blue each. There's 4 spawns near Bandl (one on the flat acorss from them, one in the gulley behind the hill, and 2 N of the flat so lots ot keep busy. I could usually kite 2 before needing to med/heal.

I could've stayed another level or two but once I got 14 and bind I headed to Oasis for crocs and EC to buy gear.

Regards,
Mg

[Estu]

I took my shammy from 11-14 kiting yellow baby mammoths in EF - SOW on, stand at casting limit, cast Tainted Breath, run for 10 secs, stop for 2 secs (to avoid interrupts), cast Sicken, take 26 damage as he catches up to you, run til DOTs drop, rinse and repeat. Very simple, they seldom resist, and you take little damage even if you stand and recast on fizzles and resists. Worst case abort and run to Bandl and Dom so they kill the mob(s) if you get too low on health mana or (as was usually the case) pick up an orc or skelly that cause interrupts when you stop to cast. At 11 I got almost 2 blue from some yellows, and at 14 about 3/4 of a blue each. There's 4 spawns near Bandl (one on the flat acorss from them, one in the gulley behind the hill, and 2 N of the flat so lots ot keep busy. I could usually kite 2 before needing to med/heal.

I could've stayed another level or two but once I got 14 and bind I headed to Oasis for crocs and EC to buy gear.

Regards,
Mg

Yeah, maybe that's the way to go. I stopped kiting when I hit 11 since the dot damage was getting kind of low by itself and I thought I'd want to back it up with melee, but my gear is crap so I'm probably better off kiting (I'm an ogre, not a barb, so I'm in SRo right now). I'll kite yellows until 14 - thanks.