Faydedar Today- fte on unguilded toon

[getsome]

I know this affected other guilds too so I figured I would post here.

An unguilded character by the name of Golden got an FTE msg on the ffa Fay today and then died to faydedar seconds later.

Fay was then pulled by multiple people to Ogre Island. IB engaged and killed faydedar.

I was informed by tmo after we killed faydedar that they claim it was their fte and they demanded the loot.

Do any other guilds have an experience in dealing with this type of situation?


http://i.imgur.com/8oS3q1N.png


http://i.imgur.com/ZvT8F1U.jpg

[Ella`Ella]

I know this affected other guilds too so I figured I would post here.

An unguilded character by the name of Golden got an FTE msg on the ffa Fay today and then died to faydedar seconds later.

Fay was then pulled by multiple people to Ogre Island. IB engaged and killed faydedar.

I was informed by tmo after we killed faydedar that they claim it was their fte and they demanded the loot.

Do any other guilds have an experience in dealing with this type of situation?


http://i.imgur.com/8oS3q1N.png


http://i.imgur.com/ZvT8F1U.jpg


The largest principle here that illuminates the poor lapse of judgement of the decision to engage on another guilds FTE, which has customarily resulted in suspensions, is that there does not need to be a sufficient raid force in the zone during the pull. Any toon can pull a mob for any guild, whether in that guild or not. Also, the character that did pull the mob is a known TMO alt and has pulled many dragons for TMO in the past.

[williestargell]

Taken was also present. We submitted a petition and logs in support. We agree with the IB position that FTE by a non-tagged alt is BS. The puller then was guild tagged mid-pull, died, and there's no way to know who might have gotten FTE after in such a situation. We felt at the time that it was a "trap" intended to get others in trouble.

Taken agrees that TMO should be excluded from this loot. Taken and IB are in agreement as to what disposition of the loot should be. (currently the loot is in IB's hands but we will split when a transfer is available, as one of their groups got the exp and looted)

[Komodon]

.Taken agrees that TMO should be excluded from this loot. Taken and IB are in agreement as to what disposition of the loot should be. (currently the loot is in IB's hands but we will split when a transfer is available, as one of their groups got the exp and looted)

So basically you support IB's position to KS here after making a side deal to split the loot on an FTE neither of you got?

Shocker :)

[williestargell]

Was there an FTE shout that had a TMO members name in it? no

[quido]

Why is it IB vehemently refuses to ever own up to their mistakes when they are clearly in the wrong and just make an effort to be as difficult as possible at all times?

[Ella`Ella]

So, if I were to have 3 members log on Taken characters and help us kill trakanon during a Class-C raid, Taken should be locked into Class C?

Does anyone else see the conflict of interest with Taken and IB?

[bktroost]

Any toon can pull a mob for any guild, whether in that guild or not. Also, the character that did pull the mob is a known TMO alt and has pulled many dragons for TMO in the past.


Not that I care what any of you people do on your own time, but mechanically speaking this is incredibly wrong! Why not have everyone in the guild log on their unguilded characters and sit 70 people on Sev's spawn point? Then just log out and back onto your guilded one once one of you gets FTE and starts pulling him to your camp?

[Ella`Ella]

Not that I care what any of you people do on your own time, but mechanically speaking this is incredibly wrong! Why not have everyone in the guild log on their unguilded characters and sit 70 people on Sev's spawn point? Then just log out and back onto your guilded one once one of you gets FTE and starts pulling him to your camp?

Because that is purposeful circumvention of the PnP/Raid rules which we all observe and understand won't be tolerated by staff. Even if we did engage with X amount of unguilded characters, GMs would simply identify who we are and rule it a kill by the respective guild.

[bktroost]

So this person "Golden" has no other characters in your guild? I could see a market in that. Paying non guilded people to give you a +1 or +2 FTE pullers or however many we decide is not "circumventing the rules."

Does it make it wrong when they are an alt of a guildy or just when you have more than 1?

[Ella`Ella]

So this person "Golden" has no other characters in your guild? I could see a market in that. Paying non guilded people to give you a +1 or +2 FTE pullers or however many we decide is not "circumventing the rules."

Does it make it wrong when they are an alt of a guildy or just when you have more than 1?

I think what you're failing to understand is that this is a guild character that has pulled on our behalf many times and we did not use this character to circumvent the 2 FTE'er rule in place. We had 1 untagged char + 1 tagged char = the 2 total allowed representatives.

[bktroost]

Oh, I see. Well my opinion matters for very little, but aside from being terribly confusing, 2 FTE taggers are 2 FTE taggers, even if the person is not guilded. Not sure how GMs are going to help you though since the character isn't guilded. Why not just guild them?

[Funkutron5000]

Did a member of your guild get FTE? If not, do not engage the dragon. Those of us who were in FE learned this harsh lesson when engaging a Gorenaire that TMO had FTE on.

The relevant verbiage from the raid rules: "All raid mobs provide an "FTE Shout" that show what guild has engaged. Kill stealing will be severely disciplined."

[Komodon]

*sigh*

This is pretty cut and dry. Each of the three guilds in question had two FTE'ers at the spawn, and Golden, the player who won, was ours. It was plain to all involved. There was absolutely no confusion here.

The pull takes 5+ minutes, and during those 5+ minutes IB and Taken didn't send one single tell to Golden to see who he was with, or any tells to TMO to ask, nor did they say anything at all in /ooc. Why? Because they knew the score. We all know the score when it comes to this FTE game. They had lost FTE.

Instead of respecting that they decided to hinge their hopes on KSing and ninja-looting with the foolish plan of playing dumb after the fact to hold on to their stolen loot.

Even if our FTE'er Golden had no guild at all, it was still his FTE, and thus his dragon, to attempt or fail. No one but Golden had rights to the mob. If Golden was FTEing for some pug then it was their mob to kill. Again, IB and Taken knew the score. They knew he was TMO.

That this thread even went up is a joke, and clearly shows just how much good faith goes into some people's efforts to "sort it out between yourselves" imo. Not to mention the side deal to split loot on top of that? Poor form guys.

[Sirken]

if you do not have FTE, you do not kill the mob. you wait for the mob to reset.

end of discussion.

[getsome]

how does that work when the person who got FTE is dead and not guilded?

[Sirken]

how does that work when the person who got FTE is dead and not guilded?

the same way it works when the person who got FTE is dead and is guilded.

[getsome]

the same way it works when the person who got FTE is dead and is guilded.

I disagree.

When a person is guilded and dies, we know which guild has fte. When an unguilded person gets FTE, I would assume that on an FFA mob they could be pulling to a pug. So its best to allow it to play its course.

But when an unguilded person gets FTE and dies, then no guild has FTE.

The pnp raid rules linked in your post state:

All raid mobs provide an "FTE Shout" that show what guild has engaged.

Why would a class C guild be using an unguilded character to fte raid mobs? TMO never announced in ooc that Golden duct tape was an unguilded toon affliated with their guild til after fay was dead.

[Sirken]

that player golden has pulled multiple raid mobs for TMO, i've confirmed this is the logs. dont act like its some player you've never seen before.

you can make whatever argument you like, at the end of the day, you didn't have FTE, and after that person died, there was never a new FTE message given.

you had absolutely zero reason to think the mob was yours.

next time it happens you will get a week break from raiding. one of the most important things in the raid scene is to respect each others FTE messages.

[getsome]

I have never seen that player FTE. It has never even come up before that an unguilded character was attempting to FTE.

Which mobs has that player pulled for TMO where IB was contesting? If you looked up the logs then it should be easy to shaere with us.

Why use an unguilded player to FTE, has been my question from the moment TMO contacted me in game.

Which guilds FTE msg did we disrepect? No guild got an FTE msg.

The unguilded person who got FTE died.

[Derubael]

I have never seen that player FTE. It has never even come up before that an unguilded character was attempting to FTE.

Which mobs has that player pulled for TMO where IB was contesting? If you looked up the logs then it should be easy to shaere with us.

Why use an unguilded player to FTE, has been my question from the moment TMO contacted me in game.

Which guilds FTE msg did we disrepect? No guild got an FTE msg.

The unguilded person who got FTE died.

None of this matters. If the person is not in your guild, you wait to engage until you can get a new FTE shout.

Sirken is 100% right, and this is something we've been preaching for months now. "He didn't have a guild tag, it must have been ours after he died!" is horrible rule lawyering at best or a blatant disregard for the rules at worst.

As long as the guild in question is following all the appropriate rules (# on spawn, etc), they are fine. I understand that this could be confusing, but you all know who your members are. Raid leaders should not be telling everyone to pile on when someone not in their guild has FTE.

If you get aggro on someone else's FTE message, die, FD, gate/cap out, or otherwise drop the aggro immediately. We really thought we had drilled this point home enough already.

[-Catherin-]

Well im going to point out that I had no idea who Golden was when he FTE'd. we were talking about this untagged toon in guild before Faydedar popped. I was one of the trackers and chose to"wait and see" like we have been told to "wait and see." in the past, even though I thought an unguilded character getting FTE and then receiving the TMO tag while they rest of them hopped onto the agro list was pretty shady.

I petitioned while they were mid pull. Eunomia responded saying she could not rule in raid disputes and to submit a petition on the forum. I did. there has not been a response to that petition either.


[Sun May 25 00:28:29 2014] Golden is not in a guild.
[Sun May 25 00:32:51 2014] Players on EverQuest:
[Sun May 25 00:32:51 2014] ---------------------------
[Sun May 25 00:32:51 2014] There are no players in Timorous Deep that match those who filters.
Sun May 25 00:32:53 2014] Players in EverQuest:
[Sun May 25 00:32:53 2014] ---------------------------

[Sun May 25 00:32:53 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Golden <The Mystical Order>

that player golden has pulled multiple raid mobs for TMO, i've confirmed this is the logs. dont act like its some player you've never seen before.

not going to speak for IB, but taken definitely did NOT know. we are not present fighting TMO on every Class C and FFA engage. So we took the wait and see approach like we have been told to do. This is being made out to be just TMO vs IB but they were not the only guilds present.

[Splorf22]

I was chatting with Aalpha last week about how hilarious it would be if about 12 VP keyed people apped BDA to kill Silverwing and push them into Class C. I'm sure Sirken and Derubael would sort it out, but RNF might just explode in the mean time.

[lilyanna]

How are we supposed to be able to see how many players a guild has at a spawn point or locally for FTE when they are being allowed to use untagged chars that no-one has seen before to pull with? If Golden has indeed FTE'd before as has been suggested I have never once seen him doing that and on asking around nor have others.

I believe allowing guilds to use untagged chars in this manner leaves the situation open to abuse, something I thought the new raid rules were trying to prevent.

[Sirken]

How are we supposed to be able to see how many players a guild has at a spawn point or locally for FTE when they are being allowed to use untagged chars that no-one has seen before to pull with? If Golden has indeed FTE'd before as has been suggested I have never once seen him doing that and on asking around nor have others.

I believe allowing guilds to use untagged chars in this manner leaves the situation open to abuse, something I thought the new raid rules were trying to prevent.

as i told Hokushin, if they have more than two reps, let us know and i'll smash their face. but they were following the rules, so you guys had absolutely zero right to just skip over the rules simply because you couldnt figure out what was happening.

everyone read this carefully, EVEN IF Golden was a legit unguilded scrub, if he has FTE, thats his dragon. and EVEN THEN you are not allowed to KS the mob.


there is no universe that exists where u can paint a picture of what happened at Fay and walk away being right. you guys are 110% in the wrong.