Party Level Difference

[Baler]

What is the max level difference between two party members to allow exp gain? Are there any penalties for grouping a higher level with a lower level and if so what are they?

I read on the offical eq forums that the higher level player has to be within half their level with the lower level. (level 30 and level 15 for example) I am not sure if this is accurate to p99 however.

I searched the wiki and the forums for this and I could not find anything. Perhaps I missed it.

Thank you for your time.

[Rhambuk]

1/2 your level +5 so a 15 could group with a 35.

grouping with higher level players kills your exp since they suck most of it up. More than hybrid penalties if they are like 4+ levels on you

[kruptcy]

1/2 your level +5 so a 15 could group with a 35.

grouping with higher level players kills your exp since they suck most of it up. More than hybrid penalties if they are like 4+ levels on you

The highest level member can be 3/2 of the lowest level member's level.

Alternatively the lowest level member must be at least 2/3 of the highest level member.

Edit: Experience is allocated by the member's total exp gained. Since a level 40 iksar monk would have more total exp gained than a level 40 halfling warrior, the monk would suck a higher percentage of exp than the warrior.

[Adamas]

1/2 your level +5 so a 15 could group with a 35.

grouping with higher level players kills your exp since they suck most of it up. More than hybrid penalties if they are like 4+ levels on you

Might be that you made a mistake. If the formula is understood to be [Level] + (1/2)[Level] + 5 that comes out to be 27.5. Tbh, don't know if it rounds up or down.

[Adolphus]

1/2 your level +5 so a 15 could group with a 35.

grouping with higher level players kills your exp since they suck most of it up. More than hybrid penalties if they are like 4+ levels on you

I think this is a very misunderstood mechanic. Higher levels don't "suck more xp" from lower levels in the sense that the mob's give unequal experience to each player in the group. The way it works is that the group gets experience equivalent to what the mob /considers to the highest level in the group, which is then distributed evenly.

For example, if we have a level 40 and a level 35 working together and the mob /considers as Light Blue to the level 40, but Dark Blue to the level 35, then both characters split the experience from the mob as if it were Light Blue. Conversely, if the mob is Dark Blue to the level 40, then both players recieve 100% of the normal experience split evenly between them (no different than two level 35's grouping together).

You might notice that sometimes group members will ask the highest level in the group: "Hey, what does that mob /consider to you?" . . . the reason they're asking, is they want to know how much experience the group is receiving for certain mob's, because it is always based on the /consider of the highest level player in the group.

Also to my understanding, the following describes the amount of experience received from the mob relative to what it normally gives:

Dark Blue: 100%
Light Blue: 50%
XP Green's: 25%

When looking at the chart, one must also consider that different mobs give different amounts of experience, even if they both /consider as Dark Blue. For example. when comparing a Dark Blue Decaying Skeleton to a Dark Blue Spiderling, you might receive up to X4 as much exprience from the Spiderling. The variation is less in the higher levels, but it's still there.

[kruptcy]

I think this is a very misunderstood mechanic. Higher levels don't "suck more xp" from lower levels in the sense that the mob's give unequal experience to each player in the group. The way it works is that the group gets experience equivalent to what the mob /considers to the highest level in the group, which is then distributed evenly.

For example, if we have a level 40 and a level 35 working together and the mob /considers as Light Blue to the level 40, but Dark Blue to the level 35, then both characters split the experience from the mob as if it were Light Blue. Conversely, if the mob is Dark Blue to the level 40, then both players recieve 100% of the normal experience split evenly between them (no different than two level 35's grouping together).

You might notice that sometimes group members will ask the highest level in the group: "Hey, what does that mob /consider to you?" . . . the reason they're asking, is they want to know how much experience the group is receiving for certain mob's, because it is always based on the /consider of the highest level player in the group.

Also to my understanding, the following describes the amount of experience received from the mob relative to what it normally gives:

Dark Blue: 100%
Light Blue: 50%
XP Green's: 25%

When looking at the chart, one must also consider that different mobs give different amounts of experience, even if they both /consider as Dark Blue. For example. when comparing a Dark Blue Decaying Skeleton to a Dark Blue Spiderling, you might receive up to X4 as much exprience from the Spiderling. The variation is less in the higher levels, but it's still there.


This is a post about a misunderstood mechanic by someone who doesn't understand the mechanic. Experience is absolutely not distributed evenly amongst group members.

[kruptcy]

In the interest of procrastinating at work, I will dissect the post:


Higher levels don't "suck more xp" from lower levels in the sense that the mob's give unequal experience to each player in the group. The way it works is that the group gets experience equivalent to what the mob /considers to the highest level in the group, which is then distributed evenly.

Holding all else equal, as the person you are grouped with increases in level relative to you, you will receive a smaller cut of the exp from the mob. What the mob "cons" to the group is based on some average of the level of the group members, not exclusively what it cons to the highest member of the party. If this were the case, straight greens to the highest level of a party would give no experience whatsoever.

When looking at the chart, one must also consider that different mobs give different amounts of experience, even if they both /consider as Dark Blue. For example. when comparing a Dark Blue Decaying Skeleton to a Dark Blue Spiderling, you might receive up to X4 as much exprience from the Spiderling. The variation is less in the higher levels, but it's still there.

It is true that 2 dark blues can give different amounts of exp, but 2 mobs of the same level in the same zone will ALWAYS give identical exp. The only determining factors in how much exp an enemy will give is the mob's absolute level, the mob's relative level to you (blue, LB, green), and the zone exp modifier.

[Destron]

Your level * 1.5 = Max level you can group/party with

[Adolphus]

In the interest of procrastinating at work, I will dissect the post:



Holding all else equal, as the person you are grouped with increases in level relative to you, you will receive a smaller cut of the exp from the mob. What the mob "cons" to the group is based on some average of the level of the group members, not exclusively what it cons to the highest member of the party. If this were the case, straight greens to the highest level of a party would give no experience whatsoever.



It is true that 2 dark blues can give different amounts of exp, but 2 mobs of the same level in the same zone will ALWAYS give identical exp. The only determining factors in how much exp an enemy will give is the mob's absolute level, the mob's relative level to you (blue, LB, green), and the zone exp modifier.

I am perfectly willing to accept your theory if you can show proof / evidence or if we can get a developer to back up your claim. From the testing I've done over the last 5 years, I maintain that my theory on how it works is correct, as it appears to fall exactly in line with what I've experienced when grouping with different levels.

Edit:



Holding all else equal, as the person you are grouped with increases in level relative to you, you will receive a smaller cut of the exp from the mob. What the mob "cons" to the group is based on some average of the level of the group members, not exclusively what it cons to the highest member of the party. If this were the case, straight greens to the highest level of a party would give no experience whatsoever.



Mobs that /consider straight green to the highest level of a party give zero experience whatsoever to any players in the group. Now that you mentioned this, I have to conclude that your theory really isn't tested at all and you're have no real understanding of this yourself. How, after playing this game for any period, could you not know that mobs that /consider straight green to the highest member don't give xp to anyone in the group?

[kruptcy]

I am perfectly willing to accept your theory if you can show proof / evidence or if we can get a developer to back up your claim. From the testing I've done over the last 5 years, I maintain that my theory on how it works is correct, as it appears to fall exactly in line with what I've experienced when grouping with different levels.

I know it's not great to use a wiki as proof of anything, but here ya go:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Group_Level_Requirement_for_Experie nce

[Adolphus]

I know it's not great to use a wiki as proof of anything, but here ya go:

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#Group_Level_Requirement_for_Experie nce

Yes I've seen this many times. Doesn't resolve the issue. The issue is not regarding how class/race penalties work or regarding lowest level vs highest level that can group together for any experience. The question is regarding whether or not the experience from the mob is divided evenly between the group members after all of those penalties are factored into the total xp absorbed by the group.

[kruptcy]

The question is regarding whether or not the experience from the mob is divided evenly between the group members after all of those penalties are factored into the total xp absorbed by the group.

I'm a little unsure of what we are discussing here. Can you give me an example of the way you have seen it work? I'll set the stage:

A fire beetle is walkin' around worth 1,000 exp and he is level 20.

The group engaging him is:

Snorkledink the level 20 iksar shadowknight with a 68% experience penalty; and

Tumbles the level 20 halfling warrior with a (rounded) 15% experience bonus.

Assuming they win, how does the exp get allocated?

[Cecily]

That's a boring question.

I'm level 60 grouped with 5.. say lv 55 players. Everyone gets exp per kill, however the mobs we are fighting are light blue to me and dark blue to them. Does the total exp to the group get reduced by my light blue penalty or does the light blue penalty only affect my cut?

[kruptcy]

That's a boring question.

I'm level 60 grouped with 5.. say lv 55 players. Everyone gets exp per kill, however the mobs we are fighting are light blue to me and dark blue to them. Does the total exp to the group get reduced by my light blue penalty or does the light blue penalty only affect my cut?


The way I understand it is that everyone has the exp allocated to them, and then your portion is cut in half due to the LB penalty, and the other half of your exp is lost.

[Ciroco]

I've been operating under the assumption that the "penalty" applied to the person who the mob cons light blue or green to is also applied to the rest of the group.

Easy to test. Group a level 40 with a level 60 and kill a bunch of crap at the KC entrance, and then compare it to higher level stuff in the zone. If the level 40 gets good exp both times, then I'm wrong.

[kruptcy]

I've been operating under the assumption that the "penalty" applied to the person who the mob cons light blue or green to is also applied to the rest of the group.

I started duoing with my 52 monk friend when I was 36. He would kill stuff that was straight green (no exp for him) and i would still get exp. If his penalty applied to the entire group then I would have gotten nothing, right?

[myxomatosii]

I started duoing with my 52 monk friend when I was 36. He would kill stuff that was straight green (no exp for him) and i would still get exp. If his penalty applied to the entire group then I would have gotten nothing, right?

Green mobs can award exp, so not necessarily.

[Adolphus]

I'm a little unsure of what we are discussing here. Can you give me an example of the way you have seen it work? I'll set the stage:

A fire beetle is walkin' around worth 1,000 exp and he is level 20.

The group engaging him is:

Snorkledink the level 20 iksar shadowknight with a 68% experience penalty; and

Tumbles the level 20 halfling warrior with a (rounded) 15% experience bonus.

Assuming they win, how does the exp get allocated?

In this scenario, the first part of the equation that is calculated are the penalties and bonuses for the group. The SK and WAR class penalties are added together, for a total of -35% experience. Then the duo group bonus of 2% is added for a total penalty of -33% experience.

Now the fire beetle is worth 667 experience. Once the beetle is killed, then both players recieve an even 1/2 of the experience, or 333.5 experience.

Note: the Class adjusts for SK and WAR are -40% and +5% respectively. Racial penalties and bonuses are not calculated into initial xp distribution.

That's a boring question.

I'm level 60 grouped with 5.. say lv 55 players. Everyone gets exp per kill, however the mobs we are fighting are light blue to me and dark blue to them. Does the total exp to the group get reduced by my light blue penalty or does the light blue penalty only affect my cut?

Yes, I can say with almost certainty that the xp is reduced to that which the highest player would normally recieve.

Using the fire beetle as an example again. The beetle /considers Dark Blue to the 5 level 55's and is worth 1,000 xp normally. However, because the level 60 /considers at Light Blue, the beetle is now worth 500 xp. After this, hybrid/group penalties/bonuses are calculated and then the xp is evenly distrusted. After the xp is evenly distributed, race penalties/bonuses are calculated for individual players.

So to make it a bit more streamlined. Calculations:

1. Total mob xp is determined by the highest level player /considering Green (25%), Light Blue (50%), Dark Blue (100%)

2. Xp is then re-calculated in relation to the groups total bonuses/penalties for Class/#grouped

3. Xp is then evenly divided and distributed to all group members

4. Xp by individual group members is then re-calculated in relation to Race bonus/penalty


I started duoing with my 52 monk friend when I was 36. He would kill stuff that was straight green (no exp for him) and i would still get exp. If his penalty applied to the entire group then I would have gotten nothing, right?

Green mobs can award exp, so not necessarily.

Green mobs can award xp depending on the level difference. The color isn't exactly an indication of whether or not a player will receive xp. However, there is a 75% xp penalty for killing mobs that are green but still give experience (before light blue was patched out).

Also, if the highest level player in a group does not receive xp for the mob, then no one in the group receives xp, period.

[Ciroco]

Yeah, to test what I'm asking, the higher level person would ideally getting experience.

[Ciroco]

In this scenario, the first part of the equation that is calculated are the penalties and bonuses for the group. The SK and WAR penalties are added together, for a total of -53% experience. Then the duo group bonus of 2% is added for a total penalty of -51% experience.

I'm not certain about much in regards to the experience distribution mechanics, but this I am positive is not right, and probably part of the reason why I don't get pickup groups. Class and racial penalties affect the total amount of experience required to level, not how much experience is given from each mob. You can't just sum your group's modifiers.

[Adolphus]

I'm not certain about much in regards to the experience distribution mechanics, but this I am positive is not right. Class and racial penalties affect the total amount of experience required to level, not how much experience is given from each mob. You can't just sum your group's modifiers.

Only racial penalties are calculated after the xp is distributed to the group though. The reason why people don't want to group with hybrids is because they know they will partially share that classes xp penalty.

So yes, racial penalties affect the total amount of experience required to level. So do class penalties when someone is playing solo. However, when a player with a class penalty is grouped, then the entire group shares the class penalty. Therefore it's fair to just adjust the mobs total experience given to the group.

[Ciroco]

https://i.imgur.com/9vzYQwj.jpg

[Adolphus]

https://i.imgur.com/9vzYQwj.jpg

Haha, edited by big post as I myself screwed up on the calculation regarding fire beetles. It's correct now.

Yeah, it's annoyingly complicated. Thanks original EQ devs!

[Ciroco]

It's not half as complicated as everyone seems to try to make it.

Class and racial "penalties" have zero impact on how much experience a mob gives. None. The game does not consult a player's race or class before giving experience. However, it does distribute those points based on total experience. For example, hybrids need 40% more experience to get through each level. This inevitably affects group experience distribution because an equal level hybrid will have 40% more total experience points than non-hybrid group members. Since experience is assigned bases on proportion of total experience, the hybrid will take a higher percentage of the experience given by a mob.

Grouping with a 56/57 hybrid is exactly like grouping with a level 60 anything else as far as experience distribution is concerned.

This is all the wiki article linked on the first page, and it's probably explained better there.

[tanknspank]

Class and racial "penalties" have zero impact on how much experience a mob gives.
[...]
However, it does distribute those points based on total experience.
This.

Let's say you have a 30 HUM DRU (100% xp needed), 30 HUM SHD (140% xp needed), a 34 HUM CLR (100% xp needed) and a 30 OGR SHM (115% xp needed).

We'll assume they all just dinged their respective levels. This means their total XP is (approx): 29.7M (30 HUM DRU), 41.6M (30 HUM SHD), 43.2M (34 HUM CLR) and 34.2M (30 OGR SHM).

They kill a level 29 mob in a regular zone with 75 ZEM. The mob is dark blue to all of them. The mob yelds L^2 * ZEM * (1 + 0.02 * (NP - 1)) where L = mob level (29) and NP is the number of players in group (in this example 4). That means it yelds 63K * 1.06 (group kills get 2% bonus per player after the first) = 67K xp.

Now, the game splits this XP in proportion to the total xp of the players. That means the DRU gets 29.7/148.7 = 20% of the xp, the SHD gets 41.6/148.7 = 28% of the xp, the CLR gets 43.2/148.7 = 29% of the xp and the SHM gets 34.2/148.7 = 23% of the xp. (rounded values)

So applying that to the 67K xp this awful DPS-less group just earned, it means the DRU gets 13.4K xp, the SHD gets 18.8K, the CLR gets 19.4K and the SHM gets 15.4K. As opposed to an even split of 16.8K each. (rounded values)

[iruinedyourday]

I cant even get past like It works like thi-- in anyone's posts before I fall asleep

[kruptcy]

Let's say you have a 30 HUM DRU (100% xp needed), 30 HUM SHD (140% xp needed), a 34 HUM CLR (100% xp needed) and a 30 OGR SHM (115% xp needed).


:eek:

[Champion_Standing]

That's a boring question.