Raid Suspension: The Mystical Order

[Kingore]

Didn't read this thread.

Just wanted to point out that the 10 minute attempt by IB to resolve this with TMO over 2+ months was not in good faith. You know what IB gets for not following the rules? Derubael saying "I am going to talk to Hokushin about that."

Why work things out when the GM's won't enforce their own petition rules?

[Tiggles]

Didn't read this thread.

Just wanted to point out that the 10 minute attempt by IB to resolve this with TMO over 2+ months was not in good faith. You know what IB gets for not following the rules? Derubael saying "I am going to talk to Hokushin about that."

Why work things out when the GM's won't enforce their own petition rules?

This is why we are starting petitionquest 2014 again.

IB nonstop sends petitions in and we try to work things out only to be shit on by our good faith.

no longer.

[Ella`Ella]

Yet this doesn't match up what the staff talked to with the players in question. It's pretty fucking simple dude. Your puller had FTE on Hosh, he and your guild was responsible for what it does while you train it away. Even in death of a puller. This goes for IB, TMO, BDA, Taken or Intense Cocksuckers of Norrath. If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.

I can make it simple

Sirken: Who had agro on Hosh and training stuff up?

TMO : We had FTE on hosh and was training everything up.

IB: Sounds about right.

Sirken: Did Hosh come to zone in because IB had agro?

IB: Seems like it, not sure how we had agro
TMO : Well we trained shit up and Hosh passed next to Xygoz on your pull while you were waiting to engage.

Sirken: Oh, so the train up gained social agro onto Hoku, and when your puller died it went to zone in for IB?

IB+TMO: Seems like that could be the case

Sirken : Any rebuttals?

TMO: Well they should know they have agro if we lose our train/pull. It's not our fault they didn't derail it or camp out in time.

Sirken, Derubael, Rogean: .................

This very easily could be tmo in the position of IB. If it happens, petition away and get them suspended for the same thing.


Not sure where you're getting your information, but Sirken spoke to us once. During that conversation "social aggro" was never mentioned and neither was Hoshkar. Only druushk was spoken about. After that was disproved, on the next call with deru, hokushin switched gears to hoshkar and druushk was never mentioned. So either staff is full of shit, IB is full of shit or you're all full of shit.

[thieros]

Not sure where you're getting your information, but Sirken spoke to us once. During that conversation "social aggro" was never mentioned and neither was Hoshkar. Only druushk was spoken about. After that was disproved, on the next call with deru, hokushin switched gears to hoshkar and druushk was never mentioned. So either staff is full of shit, IB is full of shit or you're all full of shit.

http://media.giphy.com/media/UI7DjgKqzOcgg/giphy.gif

[Samoht]

But TMO drops all aggro when IB is about to engage and tells them to take care of the mobs themselves (that they've already aggroed...).

I think I found the quote in all that neckbearding that makes the most sense. Heallun admits that it's TMOs plan to train IB once they engage, and it's what they got suspended for.

/thread

I have a new concept for you: If you don't want to get suspended for training in VP, don't do it!

I don't care if that's the "strategy" that you use to pull or not. If there's another guild present and you time dropping your train to coincide with them fighting their FTE, that's on you, man.

Enjoy your vacation. I hear that there's this thing outside call the sun and that it can help with your complexion.

[ManosMan]

If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.
So there is zero responsibility for others in the zone to know what's going on or what they should do? That's not a great blanket statement to make...

[Samoht]

So there is zero responsibility for others in the zone to know what's going on or what they should do? That's not a great blanket statement to make...

You cannot aimlessly fire a gun into a crowd and then blame the victims for not knowing they had a gun pointed at them. Sorry.

[Samoht]

"I wasn't aiming at anybody in particular"

[ManosMan]

You cannot aimlessly fire a gun into a crowd and then blame the victims for not knowing they had a gun pointed at them. Sorry.
Man... your analogy is garbage and you're dumb. For one, I wasn't saying the puller had no blame, I was saying there should be some expectations of the others in end game raid zones, as opposed to none, as was suggested. For two, the more proper analogy is standing at your place in a firing range and shooting your target. Then some moron bikes right across the middle of the range and gets pegged. Shooters fault right? No?

The idea that FTE means 100% responsibility for what a mob does is trash. It opens up one extreme of a-holes purposely causing issues and then bitching and on the other hand it opens up zone-ignorant people accidentally causing issues and in both cases the wrong people would get punished...

PS, if you think I'm referring to this specific incident, get a clue. I'm talking about the overall idea of 100% FTE responsibility.

[Kingore]

You cannot aimlessly fire a gun into a crowd and then blame the victims for not knowing they had a gun pointed at them. Sorry.

If I am pointing my gun at a target in a firing range, and some jackass ignores all the warning signs andWalks into the line of fire the story is different. But lets continue to make analogies that have nothing to do with the situation.

[Alarti0001]

Yet this doesn't match up what the staff talked to with the players in question. It's pretty fucking simple dude. Your puller had FTE on Hosh, he and your guild was responsible for what it does while you train it away. Even in death of a puller. This goes for IB, TMO, BDA, Taken or Intense Cocksuckers of Norrath. If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.

I can make it simple

Sirken: Who had agro on Hosh and training stuff up?

TMO : We had FTE on hosh and was training everything up.

IB: Sounds about right.

Sirken: Did Hosh come to zone in because IB had agro?

IB: Seems like it, not sure how we had agro
TMO : Well we trained shit up and Hosh passed next to Xygoz on your pull while you were waiting to engage.

Sirken: Oh, so the train up gained social agro onto Hoku, and when your puller died it went to zone in for IB?

IB+TMO: Seems like that could be the case

Sirken : Any rebuttals?

TMO: Well they should know they have agro if we lose our train/pull. It's not our fault they didn't derail it or camp out in time.

Sirken, Derubael, Rogean: .................

This very easily could be tmo in the position of IB. If it happens, petition away and get them suspended for the same thing.

So basically years into VP you still don't understand the zone. This is what happens when you GM's have 0 vp experience. (Other than exploiting memblur mechanics sorry Bisch)

[Samoht]

If I am pointing my gun at a target in a firing range, and some jackass ignores all the warning signs andWalks into the line of fire the story is different. But lets continue to make analogies that have nothing to do with the situation.

People standing at the zone in are definitely not down range at a firing range, but thank you for offering a half-assed and useless response.

[Alarti0001]

People standing at the zone in are definitely not down range at a firing range, but thank you for offering a half-assed and useless response.

TMO didnt train the zone in. Thanks for playing kiddo !

[ManosMan]

People standing at the zone in are definitely not down range at a firing range, but thank you for offering a half-assed and useless response.
...................... you quoted me arguing against 100% FTE responsibility and made a stupid analogy that equates to the FTE guild intentionally wiping random people for no reason whatsoever (aka firing into a crowd) and you expect people not to correct you?

Even if you were right about the specific situation, who cares? The FTE guild would probably be wrong there, and it still wouldn't change the idea that holding the FTE guild responsible for 100% of the things that go wrong 100% of the time doesn't make sense.

[Samoht]

TMO didnt train the zone in. Thanks for playing kiddo !

nobody said they did, moran

TMO did recklessly train through the zone, though

if this is your pull "strategy" it's time to rethink it because it's obviously against PNP

or better for the rest of the server, keep doing it and keep increasing your vacation time

[Samoht]

But TMO drops all aggro when IB is about to engage and tells them to take care of the mobs themselves
intentionally wiping random people for no reason whatsoever

are you implying that it's unintentional? because heallun says otherwise. this is why they got suspended.

TMOcheerleader.jpg

[HeallunRumblebelly]

You don't have to type it like I am saying the opposite. I agree with you and even stated numerous times what the issues are since the very first post I've made. I felt that way on staff and I felt that as a player before and after Amelinda. I even stated a petition that was handled that was pretty much the same case, and it was ruled in favor of TMO. So it isn't like I am fighting you on this.

I am only stating sometimes the stars align and decisions match those of the past. When players get upset is when decisions don't correspond to past issues. This has always been an issue and will con-tune to be an issue.




No you don't get it. If it wasn't for your Hosh train, this may very well never had happened. Between what the gms can look at, and what your own guild member stated, it was most likely the cause of Hoku of gaining agro on Hosh. It's the only thing that matters. IB didn't train themselves, TMO caused Hoku to gain agro from a failed train/pull. That's it. It's the price of training shit around.

What failed pull? We were attempting to pull another dragon, IB engaged one at zone in, we dropped ours as to not have to fight hosh or whoever on top of them. Because that would've gone over super well.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I think I found the quote in all that neckbearding that makes the most sense. Heallun admits that it's TMOs plan to train IB once they engage, and it's what they got suspended for.

/thread

I have a new concept for you: If you don't want to get suspended for training in VP, don't do it!

I don't care if that's the "strategy" that you use to pull or not. If there's another guild present and you time dropping your train to coincide with them fighting their FTE, that's on you, man.

Enjoy your vacation. I hear that there's this thing outside call the sun and that it can help with your complexion.

Heallun doesn't pull and gets all of this second hand. All I can do is comment on what was said in this thread. From Rais's earlier comments, it appears that if you FTE mob, they could literally mallet the mob, train themselves, and get you suspended. Because you didn't control it.

[Alarti0001]

nobody said they did, moran

TMO did recklessly train through the zone, though

if this is your pull "strategy" it's time to rethink it because it's obviously against PNP

or better for the rest of the server, keep doing it and keep increasing your vacation time

Lol you are indicating how little you know about this game. Training mobs away from people has nothing to do with PnP. This is well out of your depth.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

nobody said they did, moran

TMO did recklessly train through the zone, though

if this is your pull "strategy" it's time to rethink it because it's obviously against PNP

or better for the rest of the server, keep doing it and keep increasing your vacation time

TMO was in the process of pulling another dragon. IB beat them to camp so they stopped pulling dragons. Literally any guy who grabbed a racnar and ran it up with some runes could've handled this.

Furthermore, training? You know that every mob from balcony onward takes the exact same path through the zone, right? That pretty much all the pulls involve dropping into hosh lair and letting the mobs path from there?

[Samoht]

Lol you are indicating how little you know about this game. Training mobs away from people has nothing to do with PnP. This is well out of your depth.

Ok, let me explain the PNP policy verbatim since we know TMO has had a problem with it all along. First, nobody cares what your "strategy" is when you're the only one in the zone (short of exploiting), but the second someone else (ANYONE ELSE) enters the zone, you MUST give them consideration. If it's your "strategy" to kite all of the trash in VP around the zone while you tag dragons out of the train, you are responsible for EVERY SINGLE ONE of the mobs in the kite from the second you aggro them until they reach their original spawn/pathing point. There's no discussion, no variation. It's simple: if you trained, you trained. That's plain as day in the PNP and always has been. It's classic. If your "strategy" is broken, time to fix it.

[Alarti0001]

Ok, let me explain the PNP policy verbatim since we know TMO has had a problem with it all along. First, nobody cares what your "strategy" is when you're the only one in the zone (short of exploiting), but the second someone else (ANYONE ELSE) enters the zone, you MUST give them consideration. If it's your "strategy" to kite all of the trash in VP around the zone while you tag dragons out of the train, you are responsible for EVERY SINGLE ONE of the mobs in the kite from the second you aggro them until they reach their original spawn/pathing point. There's no discussion, no variation. It's simple: if you trained, you trained. That's plain as day in the PNP and always has been. It's classic. If your "strategy" is broken, time to fix it.

That actually isn't what the PnP says. Good read though very inventive.

[Alarti0001]

TMO was in the process of pulling another dragon. IB beat them to camp so they stopped pulling dragons. Literally any guy who grabbed a racnar and ran it up with some runes could've handled this.

Furthermore, training? You know that every mob from balcony onward takes the exact same path through the zone, right? That pretty much all the pulls involve dropping into hosh lair and letting the mobs path from there?

No he doesn't he is just a clueless troll. It's like arguing with metallikus too clueless to be worth it.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Ok, let me explain the PNP policy verbatim since we know TMO has had a problem with it all along. First, nobody cares what your "strategy" is when you're the only one in the zone (short of exploiting), but the second someone else (ANYONE ELSE) enters the zone, you MUST give them consideration. If it's your "strategy" to kite all of the trash in VP around the zone while you tag dragons out of the train, you are responsible for EVERY SINGLE ONE of the mobs in the kite from the second you aggro them until they reach their original spawn/pathing point. There's no discussion, no variation. It's simple: if you trained, you trained. That's plain as day in the PNP and always has been. It's classic. If your "strategy" is broken, time to fix it.

That's funny, both guilds have been doing this for > 6 months now. And no one has said anything about the legitimacy of train-ups.

Furthermore, if I'm in LGUK and someone runs the ghoul lord and 3 dars past me, I'm responsible for handling my shin ghoul knight? Or should I realize that I'm fucking -dead- if I don't try to get out / feign.

[Samoht]

That actually isn't what the PnP says. Good read though very inventive.

If you want to continue to be ignorant of the rules and keep breaking them for your own gains, then be my guest. As I said before, TMO is known for this kind of behaviour.

But enjoy the well-deserved raid suspensions.

[Godefroi]

Why is this thread still going ?

IB gets 5 free dragons this week, they almost lost them all last week.

Meh...gratz IB on free pixelz!

[Alarti0001]

If you want to continue to be ignorant of the rules and keep breaking them for your own gains, then be my guest. As I said before, TMO is known for this kind of behaviour.

But enjoy the well-deserved raid suspensions.

ITT: Clueless. Bold Text.
Learn the rules kiddo.

[Samoht]

ITT: Clueless. Bold Text.
Learn the rules kiddo.

yawn. calls me clueless. tells me i need to learn. uses additional ad hominem "kiddo."

i'm not the one who got raid suspended.

who needs to learn the rules again?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

A couple more times back and forth and things'll really start to take off for this thread.

[Tiggles]

A couple more times back and forth and things'll really start to take off for this thread.

The sad fact is that the guy responding the Alarti already lost because, well...He responded to Alarti. Wonder how many more replies Alarti can get out of him before he realizes.

[Samoht]

That's funny, both guilds have been doing this for > 6 months now.

assuming your time line is correct and that the petition from May was the first time actually petitioned, but that there are other petitions present, how many more suspensions can we expect for either guild as they catch up?

it's amazing how much better tears taste when they come from assholes.

[Alarti0001]

yawn. calls me clueless. tells me i need to learn. uses additional ad hominem "kiddo."

i'm not the one who got raid suspended.

who needs to learn the rules again?

You are assuming that the GM's are incapable of error and you want to quote logical fallacy?

Calling you a kiddo doesn't affect your argument. Negative language is ad hominem only if its used as an attempt to discredit a statement. You didn't provide a logical statement to even discredit.

Learn that logical fallacy, kiddo.

[Alarti0001]

The sad fact is that the guy responding the Alarti already lost because, well...He responded to Alarti. Wonder how many more replies Alarti can get out of him before he realizes.

I've got the idiot hooked. He can't help himself.

[Daldolma]

please don't stop responding, alarti is lonely. this is his only social interaction. RIP online dating profile

[Samoht]

You are assuming that the GM's are incapable of error and you want to quote logical fallacy?

Calling you a kiddo doesn't affect your argument. Negative language is ad hominem only if its used as an attempt to discredit a statement. You didn't provide a logical statement to even discredit.

Learn that logical fallacy, kiddo.

translation: alarti can't compete, knows he's wrong and refuses concede. alarti then resorts to circular logic where only alarti can be right and therefore everything said to contradict alarti has to be wrong even though alarti is proven wrong, so then alarti resorts to ad hominem language only to be called out on it but alarti knows he has still lost so he then deflects from the conversation and once again says something he knows is wrong passed off as fact in an attempt to perpetuate the trolling in an argument he's already lost.

but the reality of it all is that alarti is still raid suspended from VP.

and still a troll.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

http://i.imgur.com/VsdYUoJ.jpg

Couldn't have been hard - apparently he has a long and rich history of obsessing over things on the internet that don't concern him.

[Archalen]

The sad fact is that the guy responding the Alarti already lost because, well...He responded to Alarti. Wonder how many more replies Alarti can get out of him before he realizes.

You say this a lot. Maybe if you say it 100 more times a non-TMO member will actually believe it.

[Alarti0001]

translation: alarti can't compete, knows he's wrong and refuses concede. alarti then resorts to circular logic where only alarti can be right and therefore everything said to contradict alarti has to be wrong even though alarti is proven wrong, so then alarti resorts to ad hominem language only to be called out on it but alarti knows he has still lost so he then deflects from the conversation and once again says something he knows is wrong passed off as fact in an attempt to perpetuate the trolling in an argument he's already lost.

but the reality of it all is that alarti is still raid suspended from VP.

and still a troll.

How did you prove anyone wrong? The evidence is clear, TMO has no viable reason to be suspended.

Please provide this damning evidence you must have to make a statement like that!....waiting...

[Samoht]

How did you prove anyone wrong? The evidence is clear, TMO has no viable reason to be suspended.

Please provide this damning evidence you must have to make a statement like that!....waiting...

hey man, the GMs agree with it because they reinstated the suspension after the review. your own denial of the situation isn't evidence that it's unjust.

[Alarti0001]

hey man, the GMs agree with it because they reinstated the suspension after the review. your own denial of the situation isn't evidence that it's unjust.

No.. the evidence used to create the suspension was evidence that no suspension was valid.

Also, they didn't reinstate the suspension Derubael just didn't remove the suspension because Sirken was a no show, and Deru didn't want to go against him.

Again, you are displaying your ignorance. Thanks!

[Glenzig]

Why are we only at 57 pages? Someone needs to start arguing pointlessly back and forth so that we can get this thread going places.

[Ele]

Why are we only at 57 pages? Someone needs to start arguing pointlessly back and forth so that we can get this thread going places.

We're only 29 pages in, change your settings: more posts per page (MPPP)!

[Glenzig]

We're only 29 pages in, change your settings: more posts per page (MPPP)!

What!!! Insane!!! 29 pages. That's an outrage!!! Come on people!

[Zaela]

how to handle raid disputes:

1) assign numbers to each side involved
2) /random
3) ban whoever wins

benefits:
* transparent, consistent judgment
* the facts of the case that everyone always quibbles about won't matter
* endless cries of gm corruption will be limited to faked /random messages
* disproportionately risky for bigger guilds -- they have more to lose

make petitioning the worst available option for everyone, right or wrong, big or small

could probably even automate it; win-win

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

We're only 29 pages in, change your settings: more posts per page (MPPP)!

Not classic

[phrantique]

i'm not the one who got raid suspended.



You're not the one raiding VP either. :)

[Uuruk]

Well this could have all been prevented if you played on red.

[Aviann]

Soooo evidence was given to the GM's about TMO training... TMO gets suspended.
Another GM temporarily unsuspended TMO, then reinstated the suspension because he didn't want to go against the ruling without the other GM being there.


Right?


Where is TMO's evidence that they didn't train?

[Alarti0001]

Soooo evidence was given to the GM's about TMO training... TMO gets suspended.
Another GM temporarily unsuspended TMO, then reinstated the suspension because he didn't want to go against the ruling without the other GM being there.


Right?


Where is TMO's evidence that they didn't train?

There was never evidence that TMO trained. You don't prove negatives you prove positives. Proving a negative is like trying to prove with evidence that Unicorns don't exist. Pointless.

[Rhambuk]

Proving a negative is like trying to prove with evidence that Unicorns don't exist. Pointless.

Prove it

[Aviann]

Prove it

[Alarti0001]

Prove it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

He brought prof!!!

[Rhambuk]

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/Kinamur37/rytrsrtt.jpg

[Samoht]

don't need evidence, there's all kinds of admission in this thread from TMO that they started a kite (aka train) and then dropped the train when IB engaged with hopes that it would wipe their raid. it did. TMO got suspended.

[Hitpoint]

don't need evidence, there's all kinds of admission in this thread from TMO that they started a kite (aka train) and then dropped the train when IB engaged with hopes that it would wipe their raid. it did. TMO got suspended.

You are fucking retarded if that's what you took away from this thread. We started a kite for our own dragon pull (Druushk), then our kiter died. IB continued to pull Xygoz anyway. We shouted in zone that our train was dropped. IB never attempted to pick it back up. They stood at zone in and died, then petitioned us. That's like diving in front of moving cars so that you can sue the drivers.

[Hitpoint]

TMO didn't even know the dragons were coming to zone in, or we would have camped our own fucking raid. We wiped to the train too asshole.

[pufen]

I Samoht IB? Because that dude is fucking dense as shit.

[Tiggles]

I Samoht IB? Because that dude is fucking dense as shit.

He's some class R trash who thinks he's people.

[pufen]

Ahh, makes sense. It's pretty funny the amount of people that are continuing to argue about this just because of their hatred for TMO, when it doesn't concern them in the least bit and they don't know what they are talking about.

[Samoht]

But TMO drops all aggro when IB is about to engage and tells them to take care of the mobs themselves.

We started a kite for our own dragon pull (Druushk), then our kiter died. IB continued to pull Xygoz anyway. We shouted in zone that our train was dropped. IB never attempted to pick it back up.

At least two members of TMO are willing to admit what they did. I'm glad that they got punished for it. Maybe they'll think twice about their actions from now on.

[Alarti0001]

don't need evidence, there's all kinds of admission in this thread from TMO that they started a kite (aka train) and then dropped the train when IB engaged with hopes that it would wipe their raid. it did. TMO got suspended.

Still clueless. A kite isn't a train. Keep trying its highly amusing.

[Hitpoint]

At least two members of TMO are willing to admit what they did. I'm glad that they got punished for it. Maybe they'll think twice about their actions from now on.

Train = train away = kite. We were pulling it in the opposite direction of the zone in. We made IBs Xygoz kill easy, because the only hard part is the pull, and we moved all the mobs for them. But VP is a dangerous zone, and you can't hold a kite indefinitely.

[Samoht]

Train = train away = kite. We were pulling it in the opposite direction of the zone in. We made IBs Xygoz kill easy, because the only hard part is the pull, and we moved all the mobs for them. But VP is a dangerous zone, and you can't hold a kite indefinitely.

Then you need to find a strategy that complies with PNP so you don't get suspended.

[Alarti0001]

Then you need to find a strategy that complies with PNP so you don't get suspended.

This strategy does. Are you this confused as to what is being discussed here?

[Rhambuk]

This strategy does. Are you this confused as to what is being discussed here?

so sad this is the way vp works here, train all mobs skip whole zone kill 6 dragons done.

just disappointed is all....

[Alarti0001]

so sad this is the way vp works here, train all mobs skip whole zone kill 6 dragons done.

just disappointed is all....

Way it worked on live for the most part. Different train away areas and camp sights.. but largely the same. Otherwise you end up spending 6 hours in VP.

[Tiggles]

so sad this is the way vp works here, train all mobs skip whole zone kill 6 dragons done.

just disappointed is all....

It's ok you'll never see VP so you can pretend it's like what ever you want it to be.

[Samoht]

so sad this is the way vp works here, train all mobs skip whole zone kill 6 dragons done.

just disappointed is all....

Agreed. But I wouldn't necessarily say it works. It's becoming apparent that they need to implement real strategy instead of trying to bypass half the challenge. All it took was a train on someone else's raid for them to learn, but it's sad to see that they're refusing to accept it. Maybe the next suspension will make them realize.

[TMBLOW]

so sad this is the way vp works here, train all mobs skip whole zone kill 6 dragons done.

just disappointed is all....

its so they can get back to Chardok and Plvl their 10th alt to gear up in VP

[Rhambuk]

Otherwise you end up spending 6 hours in VP.

sounds right?

ntov is gonna be a shit show here

[Hitpoint]

so sad this is the way vp works here, train all mobs skip whole zone kill 6 dragons done.

just disappointed is all....

Hilarious how all the class R scrubs who have never even been into VP always bring this up. Like it's feasible to RACE another guild to a dragon while fighting 32k hp trash mobs who fear, aoe, hit for 1.5k, repop from their own corpses like reavers (except it's possible to get TWO splits at a time), AND have a 3 minute respawn time. The leapfrogging and training just from fear wurms alone would be staggering.

Last time I saw a class R guild take a few groups into VP for the first time to clear trash mobs and farm some spells. We saw them all at their bind points 2 minutes later because the first mob they killed split into a 1.5k fear wurm and wiped them on the zone in pad.

[Hitpoint]

You would have 10 different fraps being uploaded before the guilds even got halfway through the dragon if they had to clear these kind of mobs along side eachother. Moving them is the only way, unless we're going full rotation. Which will never happen.

[Hitpoint]

halfway to* the dragon

[Rhambuk]

read 4 words.

I don't raid here, so I guess im a "non factor", I did however raid vp on live and if it was remotely close to that here id think about doing it. no desire to get batphoned at 2am to watch people train the zone pull a dragon to zone in burn it down in 30 seconds and do it again.

but that's just the "casual excuse" isn't it.

[Alarti0001]

Agreed. But I wouldn't necessarily say it works. It's becoming apparent that they need to implement real strategy instead of trying to bypass half the challenge. All it took was a train on someone else's raid for them to learn, but it's sad to see that they're refusing to accept it. Maybe the next suspension will make them realize.

Except there wasnt a TMO train on IB's raid. ^This guy is mega dense.

[Hitpoint]

You are a non factor. Stop trying to talk about shit you know nothing about. Live was nothing like this server.

[Alarti0001]

You are a non factor. Stop trying to talk about shit you know nothing about. Live was nothing like this server.

[Samoht]

ntov is gonna be a shit show here

This alone is half the reason class R guilds don't even bother with VP right now. (Before this week) there's no repercussion for TMO training. It's daunting that this took 2 months for them to dole out the punishment, but at least they got it.

[Rhambuk]

nope, that was my point. simply saying I am disappointed in the way vp works here.

somewhere along the line you thought I was attacking tmo or ib or whoever youre a part of and got defensive. I just said its stupid the way vp works here...

[Tiggles]

im a "non factor"

Yup

[Hitpoint]

This alone is half the reason class R guilds don't even bother with VP right now. (Before this week) there's no repercussion for TMO training. It's daunting that this took 2 months for them to dole out the punishment, but at least they got it.

Yea THAT's the reason class R doesn't go into VP. It has nothing to do with the terror of becoming class C, or their inability to pull and kill the dragons there.

TMO and IB are both incredibly safe about their kites. So one went wrong and now we're suspended. That doesn't discount the dozens that we do every single week that are perfectly safe. We go out of our way to make sure trains are dropped safely and unagro'd. We warn eachother in /OOC, and if something goes wrong and the train is returning to the zone in, 90% of the time we pull it away no matter who it's on, because it's hard to be sure of anything. So this time people were dead and there was confusion from both sides about the pull and where the dragons were. If class R ever entered VP there's a better chance that class C would be diving in front of mobs trying to protect you, than accidentally train you.

[Kekephee]

Way it worked on live for the most part. Different train away areas and camp sights.. but largely the same. Otherwise you end up spending 6 hours in VP.


You are a non factor. Stop trying to talk about shit you know nothing about. Live was nothing like this server.


I wish I could quote Alarti quoting Hitpoint and bolding what he said about live being nothing like here moments after Alarti said that the way they do it here is the same as it was on live

[Rhambuk]

Yea THAT's the reason class R doesn't go into VP. It has nothing to do with the terror of becoming class C, or their inability to pull and kill the dragons there.
.

always good for a laugh when the big guys boast about their abilities

[pufen]

This alone is half the reason class R guilds don't even bother with VP right now. (Before this week) there's no repercussion for TMO training. It's daunting that this took 2 months for them to dole out the punishment, but at least they got it.



This guy has got to be trolling. There's no way you could be this dense after so many pages of explanation have been posted along with fraps.

[Hitpoint]

I wish I could quote Alarti quoting Hitpoint and bolding what he said about live being nothing like here moments after Alarti said that the way they do it here is the same as it was on live

The pulls are done the same way, but on Live there was probably one VP guild on each server. That makes a huge difference here.

[Samoht]

Yea THAT's the reason class R doesn't go into VP. It has nothing to do with the terror of becoming class C

Are you trying to disagree with me? Because I see no difference. Class C rules lawyers and trains each other to get kills. Every pull in every zone is a shit show thanks to TMO. VP is just an extra special kind of stupid thanks to their jackassery, and a lot of the people on this server pass on that kind of game play.

[pufen]

Are you trying to disagree with me? Because I see no difference. Class C rules lawyers and trains each other to get kills. Every pull in every zone is a shit show thanks to TMO. VP is just an extra special kind of stupid thanks to their jackassery, and a lot of the people on this server pass on that kind of game play.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/527/985/04f.gif


3/4 of the talk on our vent during a pull / right before an encounter is strictly about keeping it clean, not interfering with others, avoiding any possible chance of a petition from another guild. Quit talking out your ass like you have a single relevant thought to add to the discussion.

[Kekephee]

The pulls are done the same way, but on Live there was probably one VP guild on each server. That makes a huge difference here.

I mean, Rhambuk's point was that skipping the entire zone by running in, training shit to the top, killing the named and peacing out is a disagreeable playstyle to him. He didn't say it because it's wrong to train other guilds at the top, he said it because he thinks it trivializes the content of the game by making the entire zone just a bunch of crap you run through to get at the loot. So, the number of guilds present makes no difference to what he was saying, and if that's how it was done on live, your point about him not knowing what he's talking about is wrong.

[Rhambuk]

ever going to step out of the planes so I can give you that port to tox keke?

[Samoht]

3/4 of the talk on our vent during a pull / right before an encounter is strictly about keeping it clean, not interfering with others, avoiding any possible chance of a petition from another guild. Quit talking out your ass like you have a single relevant thought to add to the discussion.

Hi, you must be new here. Any recent adjustments to the TMO raid policy would be strictly due to the rules lawyer competition they're getting from IB right now and not out of courtesy for other players.

Trying to get by unbanned is not the same thing as trying to be nice to other players while you raid.

You must be unfamiliar with the server history where TMO got basically all of their kills for two years just by training out other raids before the raid classes were implemented. And then they have the audacity to be crass afterward (as we're witnessing right now).

Before the class system, the rest of the server had to learn how to raid with them. You basically had to have logs enabled, fraps running 24/7, and a petition macro loaded because you knew they were going to train you while they leap frog to snipe FTE.

[Alarti0001]

The pulls are done the same way, but on Live there was probably one VP guild on each server. That makes a huge difference here.

Pathing isn't similiar... VP dragons didn't quad on live.. etc etc...... Keke is clueless and reaching... so nothing new here.

[Kekephee]

ever going to step out of the planes so I can give you that port to tox keke?

You didn't read the rest of the thread! Filbus murdered me and dragged my corpse to the bottom of the WC lake and now I'm a ghost who haunts him!

[Samoht]

Where do you think the Alarti "prove it" meme comes from?

[Rhambuk]

ah good our man filbus is still reliable, hes our cleanup crew for loudmouth bards

[Kekephee]

Pathing isn't similiar... VP dragons didn't quad on live.. etc etc...... Keke is clueless and reaching... so nothing new here.

So what you're saying is, when you said it was the same on live as it is here, you were lying

[pufen]

Hi, you must be new here. Any recent adjustments to the TMO raid policy would be strictly due to the rules lawyer competition they're getting from IB right now and not out of courtesy for other players.

Trying to get by unbanned is not the same thing as trying to be nice to other players while you raid.

You must be unfamiliar with the server history where TMO got basically all of their kills for two years just by training out other raids before the raid classes were implemented. And then they have the audacity to be crass afterward (as we're witnessing right now).

Before the class system, the rest of the server had to learn how to raid with them. You basically had to have logs enabled, fraps running 24/7, and a petition macro loaded because you knew they were going to train you while they leap frog to snipe FTE.


Hi, you must have spent the past 6 months under a rock. Since the merger and new leadership, none of what you mention has been the case. Learn to let go, quit being bitter. And no, I'm quite familiar.

[pufen]

Duel for who gets VP. Its been done on live and that way you can move your raid to spawns. It wouldn't be a numbers game or anything, select a class every week, pick your hero and duel it out. Winner gets VP for the week. Skill isn't anything when you have pullers you can throw at the mobs with no real effect to your numbers. If you are pulling 71 on gore, which is a fucking insane zerg, your VP numbers are very high too. You picked out the few occasions where you had less than 50. Ill PM you some logs over the next 2 weeks that are new and relevant so you won't get confused.

Hitpoint, I heard from the grape vine you like CS. Come play NS2, Ill PM you my details, its where the real men play.

Why do you care so much about how many people we pull on raids that you post about it for hours? Get outside, or better yet focus on being immersed in your own guild so maybe it will go somewhere rather than ours.

[Samoht]

Since the merger and new leadership, none of what you mention has been the case.

Well no, this isn't quit true. They still do it for FFA targets and loot camps.

[Archalen]

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/Kinamur37/rytrsrtt.jpg

Lol this is one of my fav chars

[Alarti0001]

Way it worked on live for the most part. Different train away areas and camp sights.. but largely the same. Otherwise you end up spending 6 hours in VP.

So what you're saying is, when you said it was the same on live as it is here, you were lying

Let me help you out here since you seem incapable of critical thinking.

I said: Way it worked on live for the most part,
also, but largely the same.

First of all its basic context I was speaking to the way mobs were trained for raid movement to save hours and hours of time. This is in no way relevant to the mechanics of VP or the dragons therein.

I hope I could clear up this really really really simple difference for you.
Its pretty hard to believe you couldn't figure this your yourself.

[LlogJammin]

What all the anti-TMO playing devil's advocate are ignoring is that IB did not camp after their dragon kill. This has to be done to ensure players that may have agro do not train the zone in. If the situation was the other way around, in which TMO didn't camp and the zone in was trained, you know IB would've petitioned and actually had a legitimate point for potential suspension. Hitpoint and Lazie have argued against all your points so well that now you guys are debating different methods of pulling. There's no reasoning with you guys, this is a witch hunt and you wanna dunk TMO in the river to see if we fly out of the water on a magic broom.

[pufen]

Well no, this isn't quit true. They still do it for FFA targets and loot camps.


False. I haven't seen you on any of our raids in the past months to be able to back up what you accuse us of either. You're probably some trash player in Rants and Flames that does Paw raids.


ITT we make baseless accusations because we are bitter.

[Samoht]

What all the anti-TMO playing devil's advocate are ignoring is that IB did not camp after their dragon kill. This has to be done to ensure players that may have agro do not train the zone in. If the situation was the other way around, in which TMO didn't camp and the zone in was trained, you know IB would've petitioned and actually had a legitimate point for potential suspension. Hitpoint and Lazie have argued against all your points so well that now you guys are debating different methods of pulling. There's no reasoning with you guys, this is a witch hunt and you wanna dunk TMO in the river to see if we fly out of the water on a magic broom.

Or you know, we just want to witness TMO admit guilt and accept their punishment gracefully as everyone else on the server does.

2014: TMO still trying to fly above the rules.

[ManosMan]

Its pretty hard to believe you couldn't figure this your yourself.
OFC BDA. I was looking at the original quote like 'wtf is this guy even talking about'?

[Fuddwin]

Or you know, we just want to witness TMO admit guilt and accept their punishment gracefully as everyone else on the server does.

2014: TMO still trying to fly above the rules.

Poor TMO (Variety)

[quido]

IB would rather let some train eat them and petition it than just kite it away and deal with it.

[Samoht]

False. I haven't seen you on any of our raids in the past months to be able to back up what you accuse us of either.

Not false. TMO tried to rules lawyer a Ragefire and KSed it then had loot taken away from them just three weeks ago.

ITT we make baseless accusations because we are bitter.

How baseless was that?

[Zaela]

I'm an advocate for the truth, the truth and facts are more important than any of that shit to me. Its get the facts or shut the fuck up.

based on your history you seem like that kind of person who would/does

seems legit

[Kekephee]

Let me help you out here since you seem incapable of critical thinking.

I said: Way it worked on live for the most part,
also, but largely the same.

First of all its basic context I was speaking to the way mobs were trained for raid movement to save hours and hours of time. This is in no way relevant to the mechanics of VP or the dragons therein.

I hope I could clear up this really really really simple difference for you.
Its pretty hard to believe you couldn't figure this your yourself.

lol nice


"for the most part"



yeah dragons quadding and pathing being different is such a negligible difference

[Zaela]

speculative!

just trying to get into the spirit of things here (looks like a lull though, stay hydrated forum warriors)

i wanna say that mudkip and that altari chick are clearly made for each other BUT what's with all the phil101?

[Troubled]

Not false. TMO tried to rules lawyer a Ragefire and KSed it then had loot taken away from them just three weeks ago.

How baseless was that?

To be fair, those involved in that incident were welcoming scrutiny as far as figuring out whether what they did was within the rules or not, and agreed that loot should be returned if the dispute was not ruled in their favor, waiting on the heart turn-in. They also offered compensation to the person that handed in the pearl should the dispute be ruled in their favor.

[Zaela]

pro tip you might be able to trick people into reading all that if you put some paragraph breaks, maybe spread it out over a few posts

[Samoht]

To be fair, those involved in that incident were welcoming scrutiny as far as figuring out whether what they did was within the rules or not, and agreed that loot should be returned if the dispute was not ruled in their favor, waiting on the heart turn-in. They also offered compensation to the person that handed in the pearl should the dispute be ruled in their favor.

So they play dirty and then ask for forgiveness?

Raiding with TMO on the server is still a TMO shitstorm despite what pufen says.

[Zaela]

I'm not too positive but I think a paragraph consists of 4-5 sentences, pro-tip.

I know it is hard to read about 30 seconds of text over the internet these days, for you we can say about a minute and 30 seconds.

see, you're gettin' the hang of it!

[arsenalpow]

To be fair, those involved in that incident were welcoming scrutiny as far as figuring out whether what they did was within the rules or not, and agreed that loot should be returned if the dispute was not ruled in their favor, waiting on the heart turn-in. They also offered compensation to the person that handed in the pearl should the dispute be ruled in their favor.

Well just to clarify TMO offered a plat payment as compensation (30k?) which we didn't want so we let the staff handle it because we wanted the CoF instead.

[Rhambuk]

It's the typical case of pot meets kettle but the pot won't comprehend its just black just like the kettle because it has no brain.

It's a better black.

[LlogJammin]

IB didn't have time to camp. It shows that in the video.

Correct, but my point is they made no attempt to do so and that alone can cause a train if just one player has agro. They were in a rush during a repop which is probably why non-FD classes had agro in the first place

[Hitpoint]

Duel for who gets VP. Its been done on live and that way you can move your raid to spawns. It wouldn't be a numbers game or anything, select a class every week, pick your hero and duel it out. Winner gets VP for the week. Skill isn't anything when you have pullers you can throw at the mobs with no real effect to your numbers. If you are pulling 71 on gore, which is a fucking insane zerg, your VP numbers are very high too. You picked out the few occasions where you had less than 50. Ill PM you some logs over the next 2 weeks that are new and relevant so you won't get confused.

Hitpoint, I heard from the grape vine you like CS. Come play NS2, Ill PM you my details, its where the real men play.

I didn't pick anything. I went through and got 6 gore logs in a row and 9 VP kills in a row. I haven't played CS in at least 8 years and I don't know what NS2 is. What the hell is going on?

[Clark]

What all the anti-TMO playing devil's advocate are ignoring is that IB did not camp after their dragon kill. This has to be done to ensure players that may have agro do not train the zone in. If the situation was the other way around, in which TMO didn't camp and the zone in was trained, you know IB would've petitioned and actually had a legitimate point for potential suspension. Hitpoint and Lazie have argued against all your points so well that now you guys are debating different methods of pulling. There's no reasoning with you guys, this is a witch hunt and you wanna dunk TMO in the river to see if we fly out of the water on a magic broom.

[Zaela]

i got a pm

A few more posts and you might be able to join TMO, if your not still in IB that is, if you are, you shouldn't be posting here. Funny when someone new comes to the forums, they always make themselves look stupid and try so hard to "troll" when they suck at it.

i'll definitely defer to you for trolling, not really my interest. i don't actually play this shit -- no amount of unemployment is enough for me to give an mmo my undivided attention for hours at a time these days. i'm just a bored programmer

i really am curious about all the phil101 though. if there's one thing game forums are known for, it's their strict adherence to the formalisms of argumentation

but on the other hand, if people come here looking for more dramarama and find my boring bullshit instead, isn't that a kind of meta-troll of its own?

[Hitpoint]

Are we still arguing with class R trolls who have never been to VP? And Phil who is some random insane person, obsessed with proving that tmo brings strong numbers to raids and who challenged me to a duel in Counter Strike which I haven't even touched since HL2 first came out.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I support Llog. He is expert.

[Zaela]

i got another pm

Also wanted to let you know for future knowledge, a paragraph is typically 4-5 sentences average and a paragraph or separate post will be for different thoughts, hence one paragraph for one thought process, 2 posts for 2 separate thoughts. I know you don't remember much from Elementary, as this should of been taught in and around 3rd grade up through college, but I just want to save you future ridicule.

i think i take back defering to you re: trolling

[Fuddwin]

i got another pm

Also wanted to let you know for future knowledge, a paragraph is typically 4-5 sentences average and a paragraph or separate post will be for different thoughts, hence one paragraph for one thought process, 2 posts for 2 separate thoughts. I know you don't remember much from Elementary, as this should of been taught in and around 3rd grade up through college, but I just want to save you future ridicule.

i think i take back defering to you re: trolling

Is this for real? If so, Poor Zaela (Variety)

[HeallunRumblebelly]

The troll part is that you are trying to be in a sense "witty" about your posts here, if you don't play the game, why come to forums? Just sounds retarded, there is so many better forums than P99 if you aren't playing. In which case the only option left is you find yourself witty or trying to troll here, which is also dumb.
Your shit is so back and forth its ridiculous, you joined IB since I saw you with that tag not too long ago, then decided you actually didn't want to play but just come to the forums instead. You say you have no interest in trolling but then are pretty much saying you are posting boring shit for the sole reason of you think its a meta-troll on its own. If you weren't so indecisive I might actually try and argue with you some more while I'm at work.

NS2 is Natural Selection 2, its mod off of Counter-Strike that was completely famous and from what I've heard you had your skills honed off of playing CS or doom, whichever game it was. I'm a big advocate for FPS/RTS games, always enjoy competition on them is why I asked.

See, this is exactly the shit we're talking about in VP :P

[Samoht]

See, this is exactly the shit we're talking about in VP :P

More people would be in VP if it wasn't a TMO shitstorm.

More people would play on the server if it wasn't a TMO shitstorm.

[Zaela]

well i am trying to contribute a fix i posted for monk epic not showing up consistently (i'm sure you've made many contributions yourself) and ALSO there was talk of shitting on all the "classic or gtfo" people by making custom content for the server in some future time using some tools i made for importing zones/models

so now you're stuck with my bullshit~ feel free to stop me though

[Zaela]

it is mildly amusing that i got you to focus on me enough to send pms and shit though when all i did was lightheartedly point out how you contradicted yourself so quickly about truth and facts or gtfo though :D

[HeallunRumblebelly]

More people would be in VP if it wasn't a TMO shitstorm.

More people would play on the server if it wasn't a TMO shitstorm.

In what way is it any more of a shitstorm than FFA targets outside vp? Just run up, tag dragon, get secondary, do train up, zzzzz done. There's a bit to knowing the zone but it's all just a matter of practice. You do lose the free R spawns, however.

[Zaela]

well and pointed out how most of your posts are just block-of-text-like enough that most people aren't gonna read them

i don't condone it, but you do get a feel for these things on the internet

[Samoht]

In what way is it any more of a shitstorm than FFA targets outside vp?

It's not. A TMO shitstorm is still a TMO shitstorm.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

It's not. A TMO shitstorm is still a TMO shitstorm.

Fine. In what ways are FFA targets shitstorms? BDA / Taken sometimes come out for FFA targets and they seem to enjoy themselves well enough.

[arsenalpow]

Fine. In what ways are FFA targets shitstorms? BDA / Taken sometimes come out for FFA targets and they seem to enjoy themselves well enough.

no, we never enjoy ourselves at targets where class C guilds are shitting it up

[Hitpoint]

I don't play CS either, I said come play NS2, it isn't 1v1 games, its a team vs a team so it isn't really a duel in any sense. Sure, you can help your team by raping people with kills but still only as good as your commander and team. It is a mix up of StarCraft and CS.


I assumed NS2 was some kind of mod or updated version of counterstrike, like "Source." Yea I think SC is a great game. But what kind of weird stalker shit is this? Grapevine? I think we've gone as far as we can with this argument.

[Hitpoint]

And by argument I mean the whole topic. I mean the whole thread has really just become redundant by now.

[Hitpoint]

Yeah the thread has gone off track big time. This was posted in another RnF thread, very stalkerish of me.

Link please.

[Zaela]

there was an argument?!

i took a couple years worth of phil myself before learning computers and shit, maybe i can help ya'll break it down into symbolic form and see if we can't find an opportunity for a reductio ad absurdum or maybe find a formal phallacy in there

[Zaela]

"trying" to fix monk epic not showing up.

the fix does work, not sure what you have to do to get one of those "fixed, pending update" posts around here. it is an old, bloated thread though

I don't play for a month or two then decide I randomly don't want to play anymore and go the forums instead.

i really haven't played at all, don't even have a titanium install!

my fix will still work though, it's all really basic packet stuff that wouldn't have changed from the earliest client versions

[Ele]

there was an argument?!

i took a couple years worth of phil myself before learning computers and shit, maybe i can help ya'll break it down into symbolic form and see if we can't find an opportunity for a reductio ad absurdum or maybe find a formal phallacy in there

:o some parapraxis going on?

[Zaela]

yeah that didn't feel right

did that the other day too, can't remember what it was

[Zaela]

oh i remember, it was "martial" instead of "marshall"

[Zaela]

i'm used to having those squiggly line spell check things on my old forum (for the custom, therefore horrible, server i worked on for a few years. never more than around ~500 people at peak times back in the day, so sad)

[Zaela]

barbarian name guy, you were my first pms on this forum, no one can ever take that from us

[Zaela]

well i lied, one person did pm me first for a premature thanks for the monk epic graphic fix, people seemed to think that guy was an asshole in the thread i replied to that prompted the pm though

[Daldolma]

holy shit take a break man

[HeallunRumblebelly]

no, we never enjoy ourselves at targets where class C guilds are shitting it up

Bah, you were fine with it when we raided it together :P But yeah, admittedly we'll push as hard as we need to to continue to get targets I'd imagine. Thus the birth of the R/C/FFA system.

[Zaela]

this thread was just getting cozy :\

what's your prefered lang barbarian guy? i hope it's not a web language. gimme native code at least

[Zaela]

and if it's a functional language, i can respect that, but i don't think this relationship will work

[Hitpoint]

Computers.....so hard.....how to learn?

Hitpoint, I'm not sure but it referenced Doom and CS in the post talking about your FTE's as a joke, I've also heard from some people (if I remember correctly) that is why you FTE so good because you used to play competitive CS or something. Wasn't making an jabs, just saying if it were trying I like competition on NS2 and would like to see how CS skills match up since it is a mod based on CS if the circumstances were true, if not, disregard.

Oh yes I remember that. That guy was trolling, he doesn't know me and I've never played competitive Quake or CS, or either game in general really. I do like competition though, maybe I'll check out this NS2.

[Zaela]

but on the other hand, if people come here looking for more dramarama and find my boring bullshit instead, isn't that a kind of meta-troll of its own?

i hope that worked, because now i'm hungry. gonna make some stir fry beef with bok choi (that's chinese cabbage) and rice in sauce

i bequeath this thread to the people (for now?)

[Zaela]

I don't know what prefered is

it's java, isn't it? :\

ok now i'm done

[pufen]

NS2 is Natural Selection 2, its mod off of Half-Life that was completely famous and from what I've heard you had your skills honed off of playing CS or doom, whichever game it was. I'm a big advocate for FPS/RTS games, always enjoy competition on them is why I asked.

ftfy


also, i don't rmt. I'm a part time employee/full time student. In other words, I'm a broke ass honkey.

[pufen]

Hitpoint, I hear you have amazing skills with your hands. Needless to say, I'm intrigued and quite interested.

[Alarti0001]

lol nice


"for the most part"



yeah dragons quadding and pathing being different is such a negligible difference

Keke your idiocy is impressive. Context.... my VP reference was in regards to how we trained away mobs instead of killing our way in. Which was in reference to Rhambuks post about killing VP in that way. The post's showed reference with quotes.

How stupid can you possibly be? Are you fully functioning?

[Daldolma]

idiocy

stupid

fully functioning?

The post's showed

[Aviann]

This community is fucking incredible. Specifically the same trash that has been dishing out shit to the rest of the server for years coming. Can anyone guess who it is?

[Psionide]

This community is fucking incredible.

[Alarti0001]

This community is fucking incredible. Specifically the same trash that has been dishing out shit to the rest of the server for years coming. Can anyone guess who it is?

BDA?

[Galelor]

it's java, isn't it? :\

ok now i'm done

Wrong forums :p

--Daffie

[Derubael]

CS/Half-life is basically the same thing. Both are made by valve. NS was a mod made from different devs that got pretty famous and then they made NS2. But yeah Half-life would be the original game and CS/DoD/Deathmatch came with it

Counter-strike was originally just a mod for Half-Life like all the others - it had no official support from Valve, and you had to go to their website to download it. It was created by a team that had nothing to do with Valve, and if I'm not mistaken, they were all in college (it was like 3? guys. Maybe 4). It ran in Beta for a long time, and even tried a stint with vehicles in Beta 7.0 and 7.1. The "de" game mode was not in the first beta iteration of the game (I think it was only CS_ but it may have actually been as_, something I don't think they have anymore. It stood for assassination and revolved around the opposing team trying to kill a player controlled "VIP".

Shortly before alpha release (1.0) they were picked up by Valve, and the rest is history. Great game =P but they had to go a long way before reaching the critical acclaim they have now - when the game was first starting, it struggled like every other little multiplayer mod out there :) But it was so well done that people kept telling everyone else about it... and then it was in magazines... and the next thing you know, you can buy it in a box in a store with a disc and everything! And it was on Steam! (a change I couldn't stand at first but later agreed was a good decision.) And supported by Valve! Wow! After that it was all gravy, and Valve had multiple cash crops that were just pouring $$$ into their vast vault of cash with a diving board.

[Argh]

(I think it was only CS_ but it may have actually been as_, something I don't think they have anymore. It stood for assassination and revolved around the opposing team trying to kill a player controlled "VIP".

as_oilrig

[Detoxx]

the fuck since when is that site in french... or WHY THE FUCK does everything auto translates to french when im using english settings, english OS, and english keyboard.

GOD it's annoying

Didnt read after this post but, are u signed into batphone? shit switches languages sometimes hah

[Godefroi]

I love this community.

The Neckbeards, the basement dwellers, the GM conspiracionists, the troll supremacists, Chest white knighting, BDA Crying, Pint talking like he matters. P99 is a gem, otherwise you guys wouldn't come here to spend hours everyday to remind us that's 'OMG ITS FUCKING CORRUPT ITS SHIT LOL U WHITE TRASH" etc.

The only thing I don't like is gay porn spamming when I'm at work. Deru plz fix.

pras

[Tiggles]

I love this community.

The Neckbeards, the basement dwellers, the GM conspiracionists, the troll supremacists, Chest white knighting, BDA Crying, Pint talking like he matters. P99 is a gem, otherwise you guys wouldn't come here to spend hours everyday to remind us that's 'OMG ITS FUCKING CORRUPT ITS SHIT LOL U WHITE TRASH" etc.

The only thing I don't like is gay porn spamming when I'm at work. Deru plz fix.

pras

Is a Troll supremacist like a White Supremacist? Because I like the title but I don't want to shave my head.

Also seconded on porn and work thing.

[Samoht]

Also seconded on porn and work thing.

What, can't watch porn in the pokemon shop?

[Rhambuk]

What, can't watch porn in the pokemon shop?

only poke'porn

is there any other kind!?

[Ella`Ella]

no, we never enjoy ourselves at targets where class C guilds are shitting it up

Is that why Cloki and 20+ other members who followed him left BDA?

[Clark]

Pint talking like he matters.

lol

[justin2090]

What, can't watch porn in the pokemon shop?

It's Jamaican porn. Poke mon!

[Troubled]

Is that why Cloki and 20+ other members who followed him left BDA?

They left to get closer to Jesus.

[Nirgon]

After the raid suspension is up, how long will this thread continue to go on?

[iNteg]

Counter-strike was originally just a mod for Half-Life like all the others - it had no official support from Valve, and you had to go to their website to download it. It was created by a team that had nothing to do with Valve, and if I'm not mistaken, they were all in college (it was like 3? guys. Maybe 4). It ran in Beta for a long time, and even tried a stint with vehicles in Beta 7.0 and 7.1. The "de" game mode was not in the first beta iteration of the game (I think it was only CS_ but it may have actually been as_, something I don't think they have anymore. It stood for assassination and revolved around the opposing team trying to kill a player controlled "VIP".

Shortly before alpha release (1.0) they were picked up by Valve, and the rest is history. Great game =P but they had to go a long way before reaching the critical acclaim they have now - when the game was first starting, it struggled like every other little multiplayer mod out there :) But it was so well done that people kept telling everyone else about it... and then it was in magazines... and the next thing you know, you can buy it in a box in a store with a disc and everything! And it was on Steam! (a change I couldn't stand at first but later agreed was a good decision.) And supported by Valve! Wow! After that it was all gravy, and Valve had multiple cash crops that were just pouring $$$ into their vast vault of cash with a diving board.

CS:GO is pretty awesome, and they've applied TF2 and Dota 2's cosmetic gun/knife skins which is a good cash crop for valve, however I still miss quickscoping in 1.3 more than anything. And the Deagle is a garbage ass weapon in GO.

[Rhambuk]

CS:GO is pretty awesome, and they've applied TF2 and Dota 2's cosmetic gun/knife skins which is a good cash crop for valve, however I still miss quickscoping in 1.3 more than anything. And the Deagle is a garbage ass weapon in GO.

GREEN EGGS AND HAAAAAAAAM

[Alarti0001]

Counter-strike was originally just a mod for Half-Life like all the others - it had no official support from Valve, and you had to go to their website to download it. It was created by a team that had nothing to do with Valve, and if I'm not mistaken, they were all in college (it was like 3? guys. Maybe 4). It ran in Beta for a long time, and even tried a stint with vehicles in Beta 7.0 and 7.1. The "de" game mode was not in the first beta iteration of the game (I think it was only CS_ but it may have actually been as_, something I don't think they have anymore. It stood for assassination and revolved around the opposing team trying to kill a player controlled "VIP".

Shortly before alpha release (1.0) they were picked up by Valve, and the rest is history. Great game =P but they had to go a long way before reaching the critical acclaim they have now - when the game was first starting, it struggled like every other little multiplayer mod out there :) But it was so well done that people kept telling everyone else about it... and then it was in magazines... and the next thing you know, you can buy it in a box in a store with a disc and everything! And it was on Steam! (a change I couldn't stand at first but later agreed was a good decision.) And supported by Valve! Wow! After that it was all gravy, and Valve had multiple cash crops that were just pouring $$$ into their vast vault of cash with a diving board.

GM's in hiding for all p99 staff ruling topics. But counterstrike... ya they are here for that.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

GM's in hiding for all p99 staff ruling topics. But counterstrike... ya they are here for that.

Deru never went into hiding. This decision really isn't up to him, though.

[Alarti0001]

Deru never went into hiding. This decision really isn't up to him, though.

Deru always in hiding!

[tortue ninja]

bla bla bla

[Tiggles]

bla bla bla

Love ya buddy, tell Oli i said hi

[Derubael]

This decision really isn't up to him, though.

It's not ? =O

Deru always in hiding!

I've done a great job avoiding people lately :) I find much success in the "do not disturb" Skype status.

[ManosMan]

Honestly, I read this:
I will point out, however, that way back at the end of 2013 I asked FE, TMO, and IB to draft up a set of "raid rules" that we could post for all to see. So far I've only received a list from 2 people, and they explicitly stated that their draft of the raid rules was their representation only and did not have the approval of their guilds' leadership. I still welcome someone to draft up a list of raid rules for everyone to be able to reference, feel free to include a loose outline of what punishments are given for what if you'd like.
and can you blame him? Seriously you guys can't draft up some crap that makes you both happy? I know this current suspension situation is 100% interpretation of events and not a dispute that would be covered by set rules (it seems there's a disagreement as to what actually happened) but if you want to expect higher ups to regulate your disputes well you could at least help set some black and white things in stone...

[Ella`Ella]

It's not ? =O


"If this was my decision or I was handling this raid dispute, I would have done things very differently, but it was Sirken's."

[Mezzmur]

It's not ? =O



I've done a great job avoiding people lately :) I find much success in the "do not disturb" Skype status.

"IB Neckbeards have been DDOSing my IP, so all GMs have gone into hiding." -Sirken

Direct quote from this morning's stream.

That's why Sirken sided with them.

[Derubael]

"If this was my decision or I was handling this raid dispute, I would have done things very differently, but it was Sirken's."

This quote had a few important differences, but we'll pretend it didn't so I can put any potential blame on Sirken.

[Mezzmur]

This quote had a few important differences, but we'll pretend it didn't so I can put any potential blame on Sirken.

Translation: Derubael feels he is superior to Sirken.

Discuss.

[Derubael]

Search "Derubael" on Google. One of the first hits is my penis size vs sirkens penis size.

I have no idea why that's a thing, but it is.

[Mezzmur]

Search "Derubael" on Google. One of the first hits is my penis size vs sirkens penis size.

I have no idea why that's a thing, but it is.

I didn't believe you, so I searched.

http://en.inkei.net/Sirken!Derubael

[Glenzig]

"The shy dagger". Hahahahahah.

[Glenzig]

Search "Derubael" on Google. One of the first hits is my penis size vs sirkens penis size.

I have no idea why that's a thing, but it is.

Doesn't say anything about size, just ability.

[Alarti0001]

This quote had a few important differences, but we'll pretend it didn't so I can put any potential blame on Sirken.

So is Sirken's strategy basically to go into hiding for a week so he doesn't have to deal with this mistake?

[Tiggles]

So is Sirken's strategy basically to go into hiding for a week so he doesn't have to deal with this mistake?

He told me comcast or ddosers are stopping him from logging on and Gming, Comcast is allowing Game of thrones discussion as well as talk about non eq related video games.

[Sirken]

So is Sirken's strategy basically to go into hiding for a week so he doesn't have to deal with this mistake?

what exactly is there to deal with? i made a decision, TMO appealed it, and i passed it off to another staff member because i already wasted 2 hrs in a skype call with unbrella and hoku, and didnt feel like wasting any more time on it.

plz explain

[Ella`Ella]

Let Sirken know that his check will be very light this month. And to think, he was 'this close' to getting a raise!

[Tiggles]

He told me comcast or ddosers are stopping him from logging on and Gming, Comcast is allowing Game of thrones discussion as well as talk about non eq related video games.

nothing can stop GoT discussion nerd :cool:

See I can get a response from sirken with in 3 minutes.

I think umbrella wasent trying hard enough.

[Ella`Ella]

Sirken can make it up to me by handling my Nagy petition. <3

[Tiggles]

Sirken can make it up to me by handling my Nagy petition. <3

I'll handle this from now on.

Hey Sirkdawg mind banning some people for me?

[Uuruk]

I'll handle this from now on.

Hey Sirkdawg mind banning some people for me?

Yo tigdawg looks like you are already banned.

[Uuruk]

Let Sirken know that his check will be very light this month. And to think, he was 'this close' to getting a raise!


if you have info on RMTing, please submit a petition, or send me a PM.

posting RMT shit and/or peoples RL info will result in a ban.

ban please. tired of rules being broke around here and no consequences.

[Tiggles]

ban please. tired of rules being broke around here and no consequences.

Ban plz

[Thana8088]

ban please. tired of rules being broke around here and no consequences.

I also support this user's request to be banned.

[Alarti0001]

"If this was my decision or I was handling this raid dispute, I would have done things very differently, but it was Sirken's."

what exactly is there to deal with? i made a decision, TMO appealed it, and i passed it off to another staff member because i already wasted 2 hrs in a skype call with unbrella and hoku, and didnt feel like wasting any more time on it.

plz explain

This help?
So basically you made a decision with only 1 group allowed to provide information and didn't provide a legitimate appeal or allowance of defense.

Plz explain why?

[Ella`Ella]

ban please. tired of rules being broke around here and no consequences.

I have been contracting Sirken as a consultant for my IT needs. His recent lack of availability has reduced the amount of hours he is billing me for.

[Lazie]

This help?
So basically you made a decision with only 1 group allowed to provide information and didn't provide a legitimate appeal or allowance of defense.

Plz explain why?

Confirmed can't spend time on his fuck ups. Pass it off and hope no one notices.

[Fael]

IB was due for a shot in the arm. We all know this, why do we even need to even ask? When the red ant population starts to get low, you goto step on the black ant hill to keep the things competitive.

However, if competition is what we want, gms really need to understand how vp pulling works. You have a train up and pull down, there's no way around it. If we have any more suspensions handed out because the ib pullers are getting bracered by rogues and healed by clerics and buffed by bards, and training themselves, then it really becomes difficult to understand how we are supposed to "compete".

There's been hundreds of vp dragons pulled this year (through dragons) and there has been only one fuck up on a guilds part regarding an utter failure to prevent a train to the zone in. Let's not let one guilds fuck up lead to some ridiculous ruling that would result in it being considered raid interference if one guilds puller has aggro on hoshkar and another guild pulls xygoz through him.

Dolic

[arsenalpow]

However, if competition is what we want,

Dolic

it isn't, that's why you absorbed FE remember?

[Wildino]

it isn't, that's why you absorbed FE remember?

For once, am waiting answers )

[Ella`Ella]

For once, am waiting answers )

Remind me again why I guild kicked you?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118885

Oh, right!

[Rais]

Reading the responses in that thread are pretty funny. Amazing how people's outlook changes quickly on things.

[quido]

I had an item poof 8 weeks ago on red - Eunomia confirmed a week later in my petition, and since that time I've been patiently waiting 7 weeks just for a quick item summon. Since the two people that can help me with this issue are reading and responding to this thread, I figure it's in my interest to mention it here. Please summon me a new Dragon Hero Bracer on Red.

[Wildino]

Again ?

Old VHS, old hate.

You FE officers took the easiest way it was possible to take to get VP lewt fast with no competition, that's is sure.

And stop braging your banhammer, it is foam. U banned me but i app'ed, got in and i was FE, and it was ONLY you in paranoid delirium that decided this. Got in once other officers told you to stfu, so, pls, for ever, about this, stfu.

Forget me and answer to chest. None care about me, and btw, that's the second or even third time you pop that's story. I live very happy with, there is nothing you can do that can hurt me more than u already did : Take TMO BBC's to the throat

[Rhambuk]

Take TMO BBC's to the throat

ha! loved it

[Lazie]

Again ?

Old VHS, old hate.

You FE officers took the easiest way it was possible to take to get VP lewt fast with no competition, that's is sure.

And stop braging your banhammer, it is foam. U banned me but i app'ed, got in and i was FE, and it was ONLY you in paranoid delirium that decided this. Got in once other officers told you to stfu, so, pls, for ever, about this, stfu.

Forget me and answer to chest. None care about me, and btw, that's the second or even third time you pop that's story. I live very happy with, there is nothing you can do that can hurt me more than u already did : Take TMO BBC's to the throat

Uhm are you serious ? We were killing in VP before the merge with TMO. Either way the merge worked out we would still been killing mobs in VP. Also how is that relevant to you being a thief and trying to justify it because of a person's in game wealth and guild tag ? Jesus I am ashamed to ever invited you to a cash camp after reading that post Unbrella linked.

[Wildino]

Jesus I am ashamed to ever invited you to a cash camp after reading that post Unbrella linked.

To the throat again.

Pussies...

[Wildino]

Uhm are you serious ? We were killing in VP before the merge with TMO. Either way the merge worked out we would still been killing mobs in VP. Also how is that relevant to you being a thief and trying to justify it because of a person's in game wealth and guild tag ?

Yeah, one time to time.

Oh, and you should read that topic, i mean answers. You can have some surprises

[Samoht]

Remind me again why I guild kicked you?

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118885

Oh, right!

Hmm... If I recall correctly, he wasn't even in your guild when this event occurred. So let's get this straight you A) you accepted him for that and then B) kicked him for that?

Such odd behaviour.

[toosweet]

'I'm tired of being crushed under the weight of greedy men who believe in nothing. I have to change that.'

Buys bard epics from said greedy men

[Wildino]

you accepted him for that

Lulz no, i was accepted because i applyed and did the job, not much.

Oh, and i recall, i do not wanted to follow FE in TMO and just guildremoved from FE when that happened. Nothing to do with this. I'd wear TMO tag today if i wasent stronger than pixels.

[Ella`Ella]

Hmm... If I recall correctly, he wasn't even in your guild when this event occurred. So let's get this straight you A) you accepted him for that and then B) kicked him for that?

Such odd behaviour.

He was guilded when he posted this. As I remarked in guild, he was more or less kicked for gross stupidity.

And to clarify, none of my officers asked me to reinvite you. It was actually Brutilus that asked me as a favor and I would have gone out of my way to accommodate a request from him as he never asked for anything and gave endlessly.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

nothing can stop GoT discussion nerd :cool:

Just keep it in the thread :3 As bad as p99 trolls are, even they won't break the sanctity that is going past where the show is.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

He was guilded when he posted this. As I remarked in guild, he was more or less kicked for gross stupidity.

And to clarify, none of my officers asked me to reinvite you. It was actually Brutilus that asked me as a favor and I would have gone out of my way to accommodate a request from him as he never asked for anything and gave endlessly.

Except that one time he took hosh boots on his rogue out of spite. Pras brut.

[Alarti0001]

it isn't, that's why you absorbed FE remember?

Explain your rationale here(or lack thereof)

[radda]

If I wanted competition , and I do, I wouldn't absorb anyone

[zanderklocke]

If I wanted competition , and I do, I wouldn't absorb anyone

IB absorbed Dolj, and TMO absorbed FE. Does neither Class C guild want to compete then?

[Tasslehofp99]

IB absorbed Dolj, and TMO absorbed FE. Does neither Class C guild want to compete then?

FE was also a conglomerate of like 3-4 different crews coming from several different guilds. TMO is just the same, as is IB. These people posting about competition are clueless, really.

Not even going to speak on this suspension that literally makes no sense at all. Anyone who was there knows what happened, and how unfair this ruling is. All I'm going to say is that petition queue is going to get a lot more crowded in the future, if this ruling stands. Every VP spawn will turn into which guild can frame the other by acquiring agro on eachother's pulls and staging a train at the entrance. Sounds like fun.

I honestly never thought I'd say this but perhaps non-CSR VP was the only way to avoid it turning into this. Poopsocking is pretty much back in full effect (albeit at the entrance only) so why not bring back petitionquest too?

[Freakish]

It was never FE vs IB vs TMO vs Dolj. I don't know where you get this. It was FE & IB vs TMO and Dolj tried competing on the side in Class R.

[zanderklocke]

It was never FE vs IB vs TMO vs Dolj. I don't know where you get this. It was FE & IB vs TMO and Dolj tried competing on the side in Class R.

Oh, I totally agree with you.

I just think this guy's logic is flawed, hence my post.

If I wanted competition , and I do, I wouldn't absorb anyone

[Bazia]

Im buddies with aalpha from way back but just based on his guild tag I'd say offering to correct the situation was more than he deserved. His guild is rolling in probably billions of platinum, let them sweat a 20k tranix crown. Who cares? lol


No sympathy from me for TMO, they deserve every heinous act committed against them.

Only interesting thing about thread Unbrella linked

lol

[Ella`Ella]

Only interesting thing about thread Unbrella linked

lol

One day I want to put together a "Best of Tasslehof"

If you think his forums posts are gold, you should read his posts on app threads.

[radda]

my post is flawed to you b/c I'm only using my perception on what competition is for me.
what is really cool is I wasn't referring to anyone here

[Tasslehofp99]

Only interesting thing about thread Unbrella linked

lol


lol, dumbasses who are careless with their items should have to learn their lessons somehow. Aalpha's a chill dude, and if I found one of his items on the ground I would return it.

However, I would still call him (or anyone else) a dumb ass for dropping it every time though. This is a video game, but if it was the real world...you think 9/10 people are going to give your wallet back after you drop it? Maybe where you live that would be the case, but definitely not where I am from.

One day I want to put together a "Best of Tasslehof"

If you think his forums posts are gold, you should read his posts on app threads.

You should. At the very least it would be worth a few good laughs; every once in a while I go back and read some of the app threads on FE boards. I still stand by a lot of the shit I said, even though it may have been received in a manner which I wasn't aiming for it to be received.

I still get to say I told you all so in regards to Dhamoh, though. He was one of the few people who sketched me out from the beginning of his app to FE. I shit his app thread up asap, which was met with a lot of shit from officers. Fast forward like 6-8 months later and he robbed like 3 different guildmates of high value items and got banned for it. I saw that shit coming all along brah.

[Ravager]

FE was also a conglomerate of like 3-4 different crews coming from several different guilds. TMO is just the same, as is IB. These people posting about competition are clueless, really.

Not even going to speak on this suspension that literally makes no sense at all. Anyone who was there knows what happened, and how unfair this ruling is. All I'm going to say is that petition queue is going to get a lot more crowded in the future, if this ruling stands. Every VP spawn will turn into which guild can frame the other by acquiring agro on eachother's pulls and staging a train at the entrance. Sounds like fun.

I honestly never thought I'd say this but perhaps non-CSR VP was the only way to avoid it turning into this. Poopsocking is pretty much back in full effect (albeit at the entrance only) so why not bring back petitionquest too?

Sure hope Rogan stands by his threats of Velious with no raid content.

[Tasslehofp99]

Sure hope Rogan stands by his threats of Velious with no raid content.

Me too, almost..

[Alarti0001]

Sure hope Rogan stands by his threats of Velious with no raid content.

There is no threat of Velious releasing in 2014.

[Freakish]

I would be stoked if Velious was released without raid content. I could focus on all those nice pre-nerf camps, tradeskills, etc. Get my resist gear / faction squared away. Is Kael arena raid content? If not, get a full set of thurg armor and be ready for velious dragons. Get my drop spells. Work on coldain shawl.

[Lazie]

I would be stoked if Velious was released without raid content. I could focus on all those nice pre-nerf camps, tradeskills, etc. Get my resist gear / faction squared away. Is Kael arena raid content? If not, get a full set of thurg armor and be ready for velious dragons. Get my drop spells. Work on coldain shawl.

:) Yes please.

[MaksimMazor]

I would be stoked if Velious was released without raid content. I could focus on all those nice pre-nerf camps, tradeskills, etc. Get my resist gear / faction squared away. Is Kael arena raid content? If not, get a full set of thurg armor and be ready for velious dragons. Get my drop spells. Work on coldain shawl.

Totally

[khanable]

I would be stoked if Velious was released without raid content. I could focus on all those nice pre-nerf camps, tradeskills, etc. Get my resist gear / faction squared away. Is Kael arena raid content? If not, get a full set of thurg armor and be ready for velious dragons. Get my drop spells. Work on coldain shawl.

+1

[Daldolma]

if you get rid of raid content, neckbeards will just turn non-raid content into raid content

40 person lockdowns of ES beads, 30-man fte off at lodizal, and good lord poor ww dragons

[Rhambuk]

if you get rid of raid content, neckbeards will just turn non-raid content into raid content

40 person lockdowns of ES beads, 30-man fte off at lodizal, and good lord poor ww dragons

[harnold]

Yeah right they arent raid suspended lol you are pulling our legs

[TrendyDru]

I would be stoked if Velious was released without raid content. I could focus on all those nice pre-nerf camps, tradeskills, etc. Get my resist gear / faction squared away. Is Kael arena raid content? If not, get a full set of thurg armor and be ready for velious dragons. Get my drop spells. Work on coldain shawl.

Right.. so we could have the entire server piled into Kael poopsocking and KSing in Arena. When 70% of them should be fighting over TOV farming Skyshrine armor.


worst. idea. ever.

[TrendyDru]

if you get rid of raid content, neckbeards will just turn non-raid content into raid content

40 person lockdowns of ES beads, 30-man fte off at lodizal, and good lord poor ww dragons

Everything except the ES beads is already going to happen.

[Kekephee]

Yeah, Velious is probably going to be a real dick of a bottleneck for like a year as every single person who ever played P99 comes back and tries to get their BFGs and their holgresh beads and their Coldain rings. People who are lucky enough to get some of these camps are going to pass them off to their guildies and friends in a chain that will last for days. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100x worse than Seb king.

[Sirken]

Yeah, Velious is probably going to be a real dick of a bottleneck for like a year as every single person who ever played P99 comes back and tries to get their BFGs and their holgresh beads and their Coldain rings. People who are lucky enough to get some of these camps are going to pass them off to their guildies and friends in a chain that will last for days. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100x worse than Seb king.

seb king wasnt even the worst. items like NoS, locket, were perma camped when kunark came out. but we'll see what happens

[Jib]

I have a solution, grow a pair and get on red

[Jib]

On red if somebody is taking your spawn, you kill them and take it yourself.

feels real goog.

Pop only gonna be 200-400 for Velious, make a char now to become part of the Red experience.

http://puu.sh/aCdLg/3afbd2ada6.jpg

[Daldolma]

On red if somebody is taking your spawn, you kill them and take it yourself.

feels real goog.

Pop only gonna be 200-400 for Velious, make a char now to become part of the Red experience.

give me pixels i will come

[Jib]

earn it

[justin2090]

I would be stoked if Velious was released without raid content. I could focus on all those nice pre-nerf camps, tradeskills, etc. Get my resist gear / faction squared away. Is Kael arena raid content? If not, get a full set of thurg armor and be ready for velious dragons. Get my drop spells. Work on coldain shawl.

It would be nice to have a different place to lvl alts.

[Kekephee]

I will say this, the war for Holgresh camp on Red is going to be really fun


I might level my wizard high enough to survive out there just so I can hang around and watch the convergence of all 8 people who play Red on the battlefield