Things That Should Not Be

[Casualties]

Post things that eventually emerged in EQLive that should never been seen in Project 1999 Regardless of Expansion Releases. Ill Start With:

Luclin Character Models.
PoK Gates stones to every damn zone in the game.
Armor Dyes.

[Phallax]

Post things that eventually emerged in EQLive that should never been seen in Project 1999 Regardless of Expansion Releases. Ill Start With:

Luclin Character Models.
PoK Gates stones to every damn zone in the game.
Armor Dyes.

Considering this server stops at Velious, dont think we have a problem with those...

[Casualties]

ah, lol. I just started on here a few days ago, I didnt know it was going to stop @ Velious. Good to know though that is very cool.

[MiRo2]

should never been seen in Project 1999

Assuming that this is an error and the OP meant "be seen" and

Regardless of Expansion Releases

I would think the OP is refering to things that were added to EQ that took away from the classic gameplay, and shouldn't be added to P99 if it has a future beyond Velious.

[Tseng]

Frog and half dragon people.

I'm cool with cats. *ducks things thrown in my direction*

[PunkrawkBbob]

Frog and half dragon people.

I'm cool with cats. *ducks things thrown in my direction*

Dude, I loved the Half-Dragon people. Vah Shir were a huge disappointment for me, but a monk dragonblood was awesome.

And Frogloks are cool with me since they're in original EQ anyways, just not playable.

[Itchybottom]

Guys pretending to be girls.

[Bubbles]

Guys pretending to be girls.

yeah just what the server needs, another 1,000 male toons.

Every time a male gnome is created god kills a kitten.

[jyaku]

what was so bad about the armor dyes? all it did was change the color of your armor. just to be funny i would run around with bright green armor

[Weekapaug]

what was so bad about the armor dyes? all it did was change the color of your armor. just to be funny i would run around with bright green armor

The dyes went in along with the luclin armor models, which are fairly universally accepted as being downgrades to the armor textures, particularly compared to the amazing armor graphics that came with velious. People really hated a lot of the new helms when luclin came out. Half Elf males went from having the coolest helms in the game to looking like space-age dildos with that one change, for example. As an aside, many of the Luclin character models were arguably improvements over the old ones, but many vehemently disagree on that as well.

The other thing is having a certain armor look is an earned thing in EQ. You have to make choices sometimes: Looks vs. stats. To get both is a big deal. As is having a full matching set of something. Look at the uber raiders in their planar armor now. They get to look cool and have the best armor in the game at the same time...Because they earned it.

Being able to dye armor makes it impossible to know what people are wearing by looking at them, and requires standardized textures that many feel are inferior to the older ones, basicly. I have no doubt that many of the Luclin-haters probably don't like them just because they are part of Luclin, too.

[Savok]

Dyes came in with LoY expansion - link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_The_Legacy_of_Ykesha).

[Weekapaug]

Dyes came in with LoY expansion - link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_The_Legacy_of_Ykesha).

Yes, but they require the Luclin models and were considered by many a continuation of the same downgrading of the toon graphics that came with Luclin.

[Taluvill]

what was so bad about the armor dyes? all it did was change the color of your armor. just to be funny i would run around with bright green armor

for an example, you take away the cool effect that rubicite has. I personally think the red look is unique and sweet, and it's why people will pay upwards of 100k for a full set as they don't drop anymore.

[Bubbles]

Basically armor dyes drove poop sockers insane because their shiny armor could be seen on level 1 twinks.

Kinda like how when the silly sol ro Mages robes came out everyone with a CRoA nerdraged.

[philandy]

I think a revamp of the character model animations on the old models would be a good thing, to include new things like bards playing music while sitting, or a stumble while you're moving and get hit instead of the sliding.

Also potentially a simple "smoothing" of the old models wouldn't be a bad idea either. It only takes a single step in any 3d modeling program and it really would make things look better. It might even be able to be implemented without shutting down as many 3d engines have the capacity to do it on the fly without loading a new mesh. The only problem is there is the potential that the characters would look like wrapped sausages.

Instead of dyes that tint everything, I think we need clothing specifically designed for dyes and go that route. This way there really would be a purpose behind it - and development could focus on that (player factions?).

Questing. I think we need the newbie quests but to severely limit the stats of those items, like to a single ac over tattered and maybe the helm clickies gnomish fireworks or something. Or maybe it could offer a specific class skill for free as long as it's equipped, somewhat offering a 9th slot.

Also, there is the concept which I really liked - the bone armor. When that was implemented (or maybe I just noticed it late heh), the concept of a give and take made me think back to cursed items in some of the RPGs I used to play like Shining Force. Why can't more equipment be this way, instead of the uber stats EQ turned to?

Screw class balance. Seriously. We spend so much time turning our classes into fighting game characters "Waah Dan the Enchanter isn't as good as Ryu the Pally!" If this were really like that, we might as well mod EQ into a giant version of Powerstone or SSBM. Not that that wouldn't be a good mod, but this is P99. Sheesh. When I type /gems3d I want SS-EQ-M!

[Cyph]

Regarding the dyes, I feel that item colours should not be customisable; that's part of the value right there. Knowing that a weapon has a particular effect, or a certain set of armour looks unique, that's what makes it special.

[bufferofnewbies]

imo: a good end to the setup is...

Sleeper is awoken == he kills everyone. No really. He just wipes the player dBase.

[William_Munny15]

It's not that big of a deal, if you're talking about dyes. I think the big thing that should of never been added was cats. I mean WTF did those derive from? a lion fucked a human? someone tell me please

[YendorLootmonkey]

But you're okay with halflings fucking frogs to make frogloks?

[Brut]

Gnome shadowknights.

[Lill-Leif]

Thank God Im not the only one that was bothered with the armor dyes. I must admit I used them though. I dyed my warrs armor blue and yellow and told people I was captain Sweden. I was brought down to earth again with this comment though: "Captain Sweden huh? I think you look more like big-bird" :|

[William_Munny15]

Im not okay with frogloks or catmen!

[Rasterburn]

Guys pretending to be girls.

Guys playing female characters = okay. I play one myself.

Guys actually pretending to be girls = not okay. That's rather warped.


As for all of the Luclin-related comments, it needs to be pointed out that Luclin was the final expansion developed in full by Verant, thus is it every bit as "classic" as Kunark and Velious. Whether people preferred it or not has nothing to do with its status as a classic EverQuest expansion. It most certainly was... and in my humble opinion, it should be included on any server claiming to be "classic EQ."

[Kevris]

Player opinions should not be in project 1999.

Everquest was far, far better as a game before the development team started listening to what players wanted.

Game developers are successfull at their profession for a reason. I firmly believe not only Everquest, but video games in general, were better before developers got all touchy-feely with their users and started giving a shit what we asked for.

We're lazy idiots who screm bloody murder on the forums about "nerf this," or "baww that class has something I want because I want a super character," or "oh god it's too hard bawww." If you want to see what user input does to a game, log into eqlive, level from 1-85 in a month using your mercenary, then go camp goup-drop gear that's nearly as good as raid-drop gear.

We'd be in a much better place had the early EQ devs told us to shut the fuck up and play the game.

[Spud]

what was so bad about the armor dyes? all it did was change the color of your armor. just to be funny i would run around with bright green armor

Armor dyes is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

EQ had a great system for unique armor. They didnt design 14 different sets of plate or unique graphic for each class, they just tinted the armor. Which works really well I think, i mean you see a high elf running around in Purple plate mail, you know hes a bamf cleric.

Armor dyes completely destroys this system doesn't it?? I didnt play during LoY

[Gorgetrapper]

What's wrong with running around as a rainbow bard?

[eqdruid76]

ah, lol. I just started on here a few days ago, I didnt know it was going to stop @ Velious. Good to know though that is very cool.

Well, we're being TOLD it stops with Velious. We've already seen a custom PvP Plane of Time, so you should probably be ready for anything...

[eqdruid76]

Player opinions should not be in project 1999.

Everquest was far, far better as a game before the development team started listening to what players wanted.

Game developers are successfull at their profession for a reason. I firmly believe not only Everquest, but video games in general, were better before developers got all touchy-feely with their users and started giving a shit what we asked for.

We're lazy idiots who screm bloody murder on the forums about "nerf this," or "baww that class has something I want because I want a super character," or "oh god it's too hard bawww." If you want to see what user input does to a game, log into eqlive, level from 1-85 in a month using your mercenary, then go camp goup-drop gear that's nearly as good as raid-drop gear.

We'd be in a much better place had the early EQ devs told us to shut the fuck up and play the game.

10/10

[eqdruid76]

Yes, but they require the Luclin models and were considered by many a continuation of the same downgrading of the toon graphics that came with Luclin.

Dyes don't require Luclin models.

[PunkrawkBbob]

what was so bad about the armor dyes? all it did was change the color of your armor. just to be funny i would run around with bright green armor

This is the exact reason why I hated dies. Warriors would wear bright pink armor for shits and giggles. This hurts the game IMO. Like mentioned elsewhere on this thread, seeing an SK in dark black or red armor(w/Kunark) you just know he's BA. Once you introduce armor dyes, bronze armor can double for planar armor and then planar armor doesn't feel as cool. It's great to be seen in your gear and look BA, getting lots of inspections from other players trying to figure out what gear ya got.

I still say Vah Shir are one of the worst things to happen to EQ though.

[Braveguard]

Hybrid exp penalties. :)

[Bubbles]

Hybrid exp penalties. :)
^^

winner.

/thread.

[meat221]

Thank God Im not the only one that was bothered with the armor dyes. I must admit I used them though. I dyed my warrs armor blue and yellow and told people I was captain Sweden. I was brought down to earth again with this comment though: "Captain Sweden huh? I think you look more like big-bird" :|

If you were blue and yellow, im thinking u looked like an X men :P

[Slade_the_Slide]

I was actually kind of excited when dyes first came out...then I saw a troll wearing pink, yellow, lime green, and blue mixed armor and instantly disdained the implementation of it.

I really enjoyed the Velious armor textures, and was saddened when the Luclin models ruined those :(

[Solarie-EQ]

I LOVED the Luclin character graphics! I had a new hairstyle every day!

The bazaar should have "never been seen"!


Solari

[Slade_the_Slide]

I guess different tastes for folks. I played a halfling and the halfling Luclin models were atrocious. At least the clunky original models had a certain "spirit" to them....character if you will. The Luclin models to me just seemed like lifeless puppets. But to each their own I suppose :\

I agree, the bazaar was horrid. I missed the sense of community of the old barter zone system (on Drinal it was North Freeport, not EC Tunnel) all the evils would hide in the sewers or sell behind the Jade Tiger. All the good races would have set up near the bank.

Once the Nexus/Bazaar hit....the sense of community seemed to disappear.

[Taluvill]

Some of the Luclin character models were alright. Dark Elf Females, Human Females, and High Elf Females were good. Wood Elf Girls seemed a bit off to me, idk why.

Most male models seemed awful. The Ogre models were just godawful. They COMPLETELY ruined iksars.

[valorborn]

I really enjoyed the luclin expac. I thought the models where a pretty neat upgrade but sometime in PoP I wanted my old original face back. So I pretty much agree with everyone else. Below is just me rambling on about it.

I also really liked how armor looked on the old models. One of the most enchanting moments in EQ I had was stumbling on a group of players in Everfrost just a bit away from the Halas ramp chillin. One of the warriors was wearing a 'horned helm' that made me gush just looking at it. That model was forever ruined with luclin graphics.

The bazaar was all right but I don't think it was the right direction to go. I like something a little more organic, the EC tunnel is easily one of the staples of what made EQ awesome. I was certainly not alone when I would run into the tunnel and ask someone if I could barter, beg, or plea with them for some buffs. Trading and leveling alts was awesome.

[PunkrawkBbob]

Talking with a buddy we decided that Bazaar was an awesome concept (having a central zone of neutral faction, complete with banks, crafting vendors, crafting stations, and no weight encumbrance). The big downside of Bazaar was the vendor mode. If they removed AFK'ing to sell stuff in vendor mode, it would have been a helluva zone for bartering IMO. Not just searching the listings, undercutting the cheapest by 3% and AFK'ing for the night for sales.

[Casualties]

Player opinions should not be in project 1999.

Everquest was far, far better as a game before the development team started listening to what players wanted.



The purpose of this thread is not to demonstrate what the players want. It is here simply to reflect on EQ with 20/20 hindsight and determine what factors, in your opinion, derailed the classic EQ experience. The purpose of this thread is to determine what players do not want; Information that could be much for valuable than knowing what they do want, when developing future mmorpgs

[Sareil]

Talking with a buddy we decided that Bazaar was an awesome concept (having a central zone of neutral faction, complete with banks, crafting vendors, crafting stations, and no weight encumbrance). The big downside of Bazaar was the vendor mode. If they removed AFK'ing to sell stuff in vendor mode, it would have been a helluva zone for bartering IMO. Not just searching the listings, undercutting the cheapest by 3% and AFK'ing for the night for sales.

I always thought the silliest part of the bazaar (I never played EQ before it, so I didnt know how rad EC tunnel was until P99), was actually having to leave your fucking game and computer on all night just to sell shit. Can you imagine how many fucking megawatts of power were wasted by people AFK selling in the EQ bazaar? Or how much the life of a computer was shortened from that crap? I personally went through 2 fans cause of that shit.

[Rasterburn]

I remember the rationale being used by Verant, back at the time when they introduced the Bazaar...

What a lot of you are either selectively remembering, or simply forgetting altogether, is the fact that back in the day, a lot of lowbies used to complain about the constant /auction spam in the EC and GFay zones. It made it harder for beginners and lowbies to sort through the spam and hook up with groups. It also interfered with those folks who enjoyed roleplaying (remember roleplayers?).

Additionally, there were often complaints about occasional griefing from high-level players, who were primarily in lowbie zones to buy and sell things... but who also got bored sometimes and decided to "go mess with the n00bs." For example, I remember an occasion where some high level players charmed the EC griffon, buffed him, and then sent him on a rampage of terror all over EC... slaughtering players and NPC's alike. Not cool. Hilarious to be sure, but totally uncool... especially back in those days before PoK books, when a dead player might have to run back from five zones away to reclaim their corpse.

So to respond to all of those complaints... which had been going on for YEARS by the time Luclin was finally rolled out... Verant in their wisdom decided that they could eliminate a lot of headaches by creating a faction-neutral and centralized location for player trading to take place. Hence the inception of the Bazaar.

At the time, I was like most of you. I had become so accustomed to the GFay and EC tunnel trading scene that I wrinkled my nose at the Bazaar. For a long time, I refused to use it at all. But after awhile, I found myself reluctantly agreeing with Verant's reasons for creating it.

[Slade_the_Slide]

See, we never had that problem on Drinal server. The market zone was North Freeport. Simple solution was evils hung out in sewers and behind certain buildings to sell, or they worked up faction (optional). No one fought the guards (much) because doing so would bring a lot of the entire zone on them. It worked out great, no higher levels griefing those trying to level and it made more sense than EC Tunnel, bank close by and all.

[azeth]

See, we never had that problem on Drinal server. The market zone was North Freeport.

I have no idea why EC tunnel ever became most server's market area. It's not even really a crossroad.. I mean who the hell gets a port to WC and hoofs it to Ro/Inno/Feer/Guk?

Originally on Rodcet Gfay was our market, eventually it turned into EC. I think it'd be really cool for a "move the market!" movement to arise and take advantage of a better location.


EC isn't even really close to the bank! Why the hell isn't the market just along the WFP wall or something?

[Braveguard]

NFP seemed to work well on Mith Marr as well... plus, no freaking annoying run to the bank to get large sums of coin or having to hoof back and forth to get stored items before and after marketing.

[Kizzik]

People calling their characters "toons" - where did this start and why isn't it punishable by death?

[Rasterburn]

People calling their characters "toons" - where did this start ?

In EQ... about ten years ago. :p

[Kizzik]

In EQ... about ten years ago. :p

Lies. LIES I TELL YOU!

[Rasterburn]

Hee hee hee. :D

[Lucrio40]

I have no idea why EC tunnel ever became most server's market area. It's not even really a crossroad.. I mean who the hell gets a port to WC and hoofs it to Ro/Inno/Feer/Guk?

Originally on Rodcet Gfay was our market, eventually it turned into EC. I think it'd be really cool for a "move the market!" movement to arise and take advantage of a better location.


EC isn't even really close to the bank! Why the hell isn't the market just along the WFP wall or something?

I think the big draw to EC over NFP is due to it being between Neriak and Freeport. Evils can use the Neriak bank while goods can use the freeport bank. Granted the trek across Nek forest blows compared to walking through freeport, but its still a much shorter run for evils than Gfay. I'm seriously glad I never had to mess with a server who's "bazaar" was Gfay.

[Rasterburn]

^^ what he said (I played a DE).

[zianlo1]

I remember the rationale being used by Verant, back at the time when they introduced the Bazaar...

What a lot of you are either selectively remembering, or simply forgetting altogether, is the fact that back in the day, a lot of lowbies used to complain about the constant /auction spam in the EC and GFay zones. It made it harder for beginners and lowbies to sort through the spam and hook up with groups. It also interfered with those folks who enjoyed roleplaying (remember roleplayers?).

Additionally, there were often complaints about occasional griefing from high-level players, who were primarily in lowbie zones to buy and sell things... but who also got bored sometimes and decided to "go mess with the n00bs." For example, I remember an occasion where some high level players charmed the EC griffon, buffed him, and then sent him on a rampage of terror all over EC... slaughtering players and NPC's alike. Not cool. Hilarious to be sure, but totally uncool... especially back in those days before PoK books, when a dead player might have to run back from five zones away to reclaim their corpse.

So to respond to all of those complaints... which had been going on for YEARS by the time Luclin was finally rolled out... Verant in their wisdom decided that they could eliminate a lot of headaches by creating a faction-neutral and centralized location for player trading to take place. Hence the inception of the Bazaar.

At the time, I was like most of you. I had become so accustomed to the GFay and EC tunnel trading scene that I wrinkled my nose at the Bazaar. For a long time, I refused to use it at all. But after awhile, I found myself reluctantly agreeing with Verant's reasons for creating it.

Sorry, that was me on my druid if you were on Cazic Thule =D

[Rasterburn]

Sorry, that was me if you were on Cazic Thule =D

LOL... well, I have a confession to make. :x

It was... umm... ME and my guildies, on Mith Marr back sometime in the spring of 2001, I think. I can't recall exactly when it was. We charmed the griff, gave it a SoW buff and a cleric HP buff, chanter gave it haste and strength buffs and then we set it loose. It utterly demolished every living thing in the zone that it aggro'ed on within about fifteen minutes. Finally a GM showed up and he almost suspended us LOL. We managed to bullshit our way out of it, fortunately. And yes, I do regret doing it.

[Molitoth]

Player opinions should not be in project 1999.

Everquest was far, far better as a game before the development team started listening to what players wanted.

Game developers are successfull at their profession for a reason. I firmly believe not only Everquest, but video games in general, were better before developers got all touchy-feely with their users and started giving a shit what we asked for.

We're lazy idiots who screm bloody murder on the forums about "nerf this," or "baww that class has something I want because I want a super character," or "oh god it's too hard bawww." If you want to see what user input does to a game, log into eqlive, level from 1-85 in a month using your mercenary, then go camp goup-drop gear that's nearly as good as raid-drop gear.

We'd be in a much better place had the early EQ devs told us to shut the fuck up and play the game.

You win! Thread over.

[Aetherial]

Guys playing female characters = okay. I play one myself.

Guys actually pretending to be girls = not okay. That's rather warped.


As for all of the Luclin-related comments, it needs to be pointed out that Luclin was the final expansion developed in full by Verant, thus is it every bit as "classic" as Kunark and Velious. Whether people preferred it or not has nothing to do with its status as a classic EverQuest expansion. It most certainly was... and in my humble opinion, it should be included on any server claiming to be "classic EQ."

I play a female character also, in most RPG games.

If I have to look at a toon for hours, I would rather it be a woman. Also, I just find the idea of a kick-ass female to be much more interesting.

[Lagaidh]

My profile pic is Live Lagaidh with his dyed armor. I purposefully made the most mis-matched gawdy set of armor I could.

[Rasterburn]

I play a female character also, in most RPG games.

If I have to look at a toon for hours, I would rather it be a woman. Also, I just find the idea of a kick-ass female to be much more interesting.

Agreed. I'd rather look at a chick's ass all day long than a sweaty guy's ass. That's just the sort of person I am. I like girls -- both real and imaginary -- even if they are just a collection of pixels.

Not only that, but I also play caster classes exclusively... and the notion of a seemingly harmless looking little chick who can blow your balls off has a certain humorous appeal. :p

[Lucrio40]

Agreed. I'd rather look at a chick's ass all day long than a sweaty guy's ass. That's just the sort of person I am. I like girls -- both real and imaginary -- even if they are just a collection of pixels.

Not only that, but I also play caster classes exclusively... and the notion of a seemingly harmless looking little chick who can blow your balls off has a certain humorous appeal. :p

People can get away with that excuse now with the improved camera of the modern client, but seriously who the hell played 3rd person view in 1999? If you rolled up a female toon in 1999 you didn't roll it because you wanted to look at a female character, you wanted other people to look at you and see a female character.

[Rasterburn]

If you rolled up a female toon in 1999 you didn't roll it because you wanted to look at a female character, you wanted other people to look at you and see a female character.

If that is true in some people's case, then that's their problem. That was never true in my case. I simply prefer the appearance of the female character models. And since I do not sit there imagining that my toon is actually me (never been much of a roleplayer), then her gender is in no way related to my own. I simply like the way she looks, period.

The people who worry a lot about this issue are often sexually insecure young males, who worry too much about hitting on a female toon and then feeling like a queer after they discover that she is owned by another guy. Which is actually hilarious, when you think about it. :p

In any case, it is well known that the vast majority of EQ players are male. If all of us played male toons exclusively, then you'd be living in fag land every time you logged into the game. Who the hell wants that..? Not me, thanks. So somebody has to play the female toons, otherwise the entire game world ends up looking like a gay bath house in 'Frisco.

[fuji]

I agree that major things of the game should be left alone, I mean look how SWG turned out!

Back to EQ, I think that light blue mobs should have been left out.

[Aetherial]

People can get away with that excuse now with the improved camera of the modern client, but seriously who the hell played 3rd person view in 1999? If you rolled up a female toon in 1999 you didn't roll it because you wanted to look at a female character, you wanted other people to look at you and see a female character.

Actually, my main was a ranger, male, because it fit the image I had of the character when I made him.

As a caster/healer which I play in pretty much any MMORPG I try now, I generally choose a woman. It just seems to "fit" my vision of my character.

... unless of course it is just my latent homosexual tendencies showing through...

[Raavak]

If you rolled up a female toon in 1999 you didn't roll it because you wanted to look at a female character, you wanted other people to look at you and see a female character.
Wrong. Female DE in leather armor gave me a stiffy so I went with it.

How about all those people who had names starting Aa... To go first in alpha loot order.

[Lucrio40]

Wrong. Female DE in leather armor gave me a stiffy so I went with it.


I find that tits give me a stiffy, doesn't mean I'm going to get a pair put on me.

[eqdruid76]

If that is true in some people's case, then that's their problem. That was never true in my case. I simply prefer the appearance of the female character models. And since I do not sit there imagining that my toon is actually me (never been much of a roleplayer), then her gender is in no way related to my own. I simply like the way she looks, period.

The people who worry a lot about this issue are often sexually insecure young males, who worry too much about hitting on a female toon and then feeling like a queer after they discover that she is owned by another guy. Which is actually hilarious, when you think about it. :p

In any case, it is well known that the vast majority of EQ players are male. If all of us played male toons exclusively, then you'd be living in fag land every time you logged into the game. Who the hell wants that..? Not me, thanks. So somebody has to play the female toons, otherwise the entire game world ends up looking like a gay bath house in 'Frisco.

Me thinks thou doth protest too much. :P

[Rasterburn]

Methinks thou dost get woody thinking about it. :p