What's the best general-purpose PLing class?

[Estu]

Bards are best for AE classes, but what about everyone else? From what I've read it's between monk and necro: they both use basically the same method (get the mob almost dead, then feign), but monks have the advantage of not using mana while necros have the advantage of not relying on the PLee to finish the mob (their DoT can finish the mob while they're feigned; the PLee just needs to get one point of damage in).

For what levels is powerleveling effective? Can you powerlevel pretty decently right up until Chardok AE proxy time?

[Swish]

Bards are best for AE classes, but what about everyone else? From what I've read it's between monk and necro: they both use basically the same method (get the mob almost dead, then feign), but monks have the advantage of not using mana while necros have the advantage of not relying on the PLee to finish the mob (their DoT can finish the mob while they're feigned; the PLee just needs to get one point of damage in).

For what levels is powerleveling effective? Can you powerlevel pretty decently right up until Chardok AE proxy time?

It's a real coinflip. As a necro I'd stay in skellie form and just lifetap as required to speed up a kill and regain health. Pet dps is helpful too, as long as the mob is rooted, pet is backed off, and you're FD... its easy work.

Occasionally FD will fail and really piss you off tho :p

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I do quite well on a cleric. It requires you have awesome amounts of gear, though :p Shaman/mage or shaman/druid combos work well together if both are 60, even if poor!

[Estu]

I do quite well on a cleric.

How does this even work?

[Daldaen]

Skilled and well geared Druid is unmatched. I will crush Heallun any day all day! 1-20 takes me about 2 hours... 20-30 will be about 3-4. 30-40 will be about 5-6. That's for minimal EXP penalty class/races... hybrids or iksar/troll SKs take a bit longer.

But in order to do that you really need a Manastone / Robe / DS potions. Whereas he needs Manastone / Donal's / DS potions / Ragefire Arms.

For a crappily geared powerleveler, a Druid or necro.

Monk PL is really quite bad and overrated. It's limited to twinked melee toons. It fails hard for untwinked or caster toons.

[Daldaen]

How does this even work?

He aggros everything, uses DS potions + Ragefire arms (40ish DS total), spams sit and kills train of mobs. Heals self with CE/Remedy/DL (I'd guess mostly CEs). Regains mana with Donal's + Manastone.

[thieros]

Shadowknight PL was dank before 11%exp/kill nerf. used to be 1-20 in an hour. It was like a monk PL but DoTs would finish off the mob for casters and twinked melees alike.

I do Shaman PL's where I slow mobs and do pulling and stuff and for a 40 warrior twinked i was giving better exp then chardok AE. for a fraction of the price

That being said, chardok AE is the caddy of PLs due to its afk nature. so that would be for 40+ any class. Providers or this, necro, sk, mage, chanter, wizard, cleric

Druids are best 1-20 out there imo. Clerics can keep up but its more complicated.

Bards can do 1-20 any class, 20-50 PBAoE classes

Monks are good for 10-55 melee toons and some dd classes.

enchanters & mages have pseudo PLing with charm breaking/ petreclaiming but its not near as effecient as the above

All in all, there are a TON of options and I feel 1 class doesn't do the best 1-50 PL. When im PLing up one of my toons, ill look for the best route of attack

PBAoE class ill go bard 1-40, Chardok 40+

Melee class or priest (non PBAoE) ill go druid 1-25, monk|necro|SK PL to 40, Chardok 40+



so if you are looking to roll the best PL class, id roll in priority:

1) Bard (all purpose)
2) Druid (1-25)
3) Chardok class - cleric, chanter, SK, mage, wizard, etc (40+)

I'd consider the chanter a wise decision due to its solo farmability when not occupied PLing

[Orruar]

Don't go Chardok until 50. The xp formula heavily penalizes you for being so far away from the other group members, who are usually upper 50s.

[thieros]

41-44, 46-49 = 2 pulls per level
40&45 = 4 pulls per level

[Estu]

Skilled and well geared Druid is unmatched. I will crush Heallun any day all day! 1-20 takes me about 2 hours... 20-30 will be about 3-4. 30-40 will be about 5-6. That's for minimal EXP penalty class/races... hybrids or iksar/troll SKs take a bit longer.

But in order to do that you really need a Manastone / Robe / DS potions. Whereas he needs Manastone / Donal's / DS potions / Ragefire Arms.

For a crappily geared powerleveler, a Druid or necro.

Monk PL is really quite bad and overrated. It's limited to twinked melee toons. It fails hard for untwinked or caster toons.

Great info, thanks. I should have specified, but I'm mainly interested in PL assuming no fancy gear or usage of expendable items like potions. I'm interested in this to power level alts of guildies in my spare time, not to make money. I already have a 45 druid and I'm intrigued by your druid PL strategy I read about in another thread, so I might try to get him to 60. My necro is only like level 15. On the other hand, I kind of wanna play the necro more and I think the necro might be a better powerleveler as well (again, without fancy items). One thing is that I do happen to have a fungi, which would definitely help the druid PL be more effective at mid levels.

[Daldaen]

Without Manastone and Robe, my PLing slows down a bit. But not too terribly much. If you're 60 with all your spells, it's pretty solid. From 1-25 I wouldn't notice them missing at all.

Though losing DS potions would hurt for levels 25+. It cuts the amount of time you have to tank in half. Each 10-dose costs about 380pp to make and is sold in EC for 500 plat. The clicks last 12min (12*10=2 hours). So for 250pp/hour, you are doubling your kill speed via DS. They really are a no brainer to use and are quite affordable.

If you want to PL as a complete ungeared person though, make a bard. All you really need are some instruments and some HP gear. Necros don't require much gear either but they are slower PLers than a bard.

[Swish]

Is it currently offensive/stupid to level up the classic way? Seems like everyone's after a shortcut :p

[Daldaen]

Is it currently offensive/stupid to level up the classic way? Seems like everyone's after a shortcut :p

We are leveling up the classic way. Without a +20% bonus for each group member.

Classic EXP favors those who can solo high level mobs. Having high level friends assist you in soloing high level mobs is how you level fast in classic.

[Kidneypunch]

He aggros everything, uses DS potions + Ragefire arms (40ish DS total), spams sit and kills train of mobs. Heals self with CE/Remedy/DL (I'd guess mostly CEs). Regains mana with Donal's + Manastone.

This plus CH bp

[Daldaen]

That's what the Donal's + Manastone is.

Generally, even when corned, I can't channel my 12s cast Robe. I'm guessing Donal's is interrupted more often. And you end up having to use CE/Remedy/DL to heal and then Donal's+Manastone to regain mana.

[Estu]

Without Manastone and Robe, my PLing slows down a bit. But not too terribly much. If you're 60 with all your spells, it's pretty solid. From 1-25 I wouldn't notice them missing at all.

Though losing DS potions would hurt for levels 25+. It cuts the amount of time you have to tank in half. Each 10-dose costs about 380pp to make and is sold in EC for 500 plat. The clicks last 12min (12*10=2 hours). So for 250pp/hour, you are doubling your kill speed via DS. They really are a no brainer to use and are quite affordable.

If you want to PL as a complete ungeared person though, make a bard. All you really need are some instruments and some HP gear. Necros don't require much gear either but they are slower PLers than a bard.

Bards are faster PLers than necros, for non-AE classes? What's the bard method to PL, say, a warrior or an enchanter?

Is it currently offensive/stupid to level up the classic way? Seems like everyone's after a shortcut :p

I'd just like to reiterate that I'm asking because I want to power level alts of guildies in my spare time, for fun. I've never bought a PL for any of my characters and I've only sold PL services a couple of times, experimentally. I don't have anything against it, though.

[Daldaen]

Bards 25-50, charm mob, fight other mob, break charm when both low. AE Snare/Slow to hold aggro, DS song self, Regen song self. Allow noob toon to hit each once.

Best used on red cons to the noob toon. So that they're getting max exp per kill.

[Estu]

Bards 25-50, charm mob, fight other mob, break charm when both low. AE Snare/Slow to hold aggro, DS song self, Regen song self. Allow noob toon to hit each once.

Best used on red cons to the noob toon. So that they're getting max exp per kill.

How sustainable is this? Don't bards take 40 minutes to med from 0 mana to full? Is having two mobs beat on each other faster than a necro dotting a mob down?

[Kidneypunch]

Bards at low levels are soo sick!
Swarm DS, snare let noob hit each and boom

[Glenzig]

We are leveling up the classic way. Without a +20% bonus for each group member.

Classic EXP favors those who can solo high level mobs. Having high level friends assist you in soloing high level mobs is how you level fast in classic.

So grouping is not classic?

[Daldaen]

Grouping is classic. Grouping for great exp is not classic... Unless AOE group, then it's classic.

Bards first charm is mana free. Which goes up to 37. Their second charm is 20 mana. It is limiting for sure but I'm not sure by how much.

[Swish]

So grouping is not classic?

Think he's saying the red XP rate is too high, but its cool to be PL'ed and do Chardok AOE.

(also known as a hypocrit)

[Daldaen]

Think he's saying the red XP rate is too high, but its cool to be PL'ed and do Chardok AOE.

(also known as a hypocrit)

Did classic have AOE groups and PLers in 2000-2001. Answer is yes.
Did classic have a +20% EXP bonus per group member added. Answer is no.

Really this isn't hard Swish. One is a classic experience. One is not.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

He aggros everything, uses DS potions + Ragefire arms (40ish DS total), spams sit and kills train of mobs. Heals self with CE/Remedy/DL (I'd guess mostly CEs). Regains mana with Donal's + Manastone.

This is pretty accurate. I also have some pathing in sol a that helps me refresh kilva's mid pull so i don't have to watch it anymore or refresh when it's low pre pull.

[Swish]

Did classic have AOE groups and PLers in 2000-2001. Answer is yes.
Did classic have a +20% EXP bonus per group member added. Answer is no.

Really this isn't hard Swish. One is a classic experience. One is not.

There was no Chardok AOE on my server, perhaps we were just stunted/retarded. What server were you on?

Most people's graphics cards would have fried imo.

Classic didn't have duck canceling of spells at this point in the timeline either.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

There was no Chardok AOE on my server, perhaps we were just stunted/retarded. Most people's graphics cards would have fried imo.

Classic didn't have duck canceling of spells at this point in the timeline either.

Eh, on vazaelle we really didn't start aoe'ing anything until luclin. Not much purpose--everyone trying to gear out their main. AAXP made a huge push for AE groups--fungus grove / sebilis were the popular ones on vazaelle :3

[Daldaen]

Give us classic duck mechanics if I can med 1 tick mid CH and stand up to complete. 100%, I'm down.

And people did Sebilis AOEs. Smaller pulls but still AOEs. Confirmed classic.

[Swish]

Give us classic duck mechanics if I can med 1 tick mid CH and stand up to complete. 100%, I'm down.

And people did Sebilis AOEs. Smaller pulls but still AOEs. Confirmed classic.

So you don't want to say what server you were on with your Chardok aoe groups? Just curiosity.

[Daldaen]

You want to mention what server you were on that had a +20% EXP bonus?

[Kidneypunch]

My server was very rich and one of the older servers. Povar, there was FG AE, Seb AE pulling from Disco all the way to Jail or further. This was before innate run speed so you zone out and sow yourself and come back . I dont recall Chardok too much but i played a warrior and I was 13 years old so i was a newb at life

[Daldaen]

Wizard Forum - October 2001 (http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6048-Sebilis-AoE-The-how-to-Quellious-server)

Sebilis AoE - The how to, Quellious server

Since my first run out on an AoE group (which we did in the hole, a terrible idea looking back on it, as the golems just don't like stuns) the concept of it has been evolving until it's become an every day event in Sebilis. A few strategies I might suggest.

1. Comprise your group of 3 wizards, all 53+ as Jyll's static pulse is a must, one interupt will throw a supernova off long before it zaps anything (sorry young Wizards, you'll have to wait). 2 Enchanters with balls of steel that wouldn't dream of buying their account off of ebay, the higher the better. 1 Cleric, preferably 56+ because when AoE goes wrong, it goes really wrong, and considering the number of mobs your group had on you by the time you finally hit the dust makes for a very tricky CR... But high risk, high reward right?

2. Bring a heavy supply of perdidots for Manaskin, if thats what you use at your level. The enchanters need to be runing themselves, wizards should be skinning as well. The cleric should always have DA up to survive an evac if at all possible. I've done groups where a wizard was substituted with a 55+ mage for CoH, which is very helpful but can easily be done without. Here's the reason you might consider it: Pulling for AoE groups is the entire reason to get your wizard epic. The cost of components to keep skinning yourself can be rather evil, even at the exceedingly amazing loot you'll get you'll still spend a pretty penny to keep it up. The puller should be the wizard with the epic if at all possible. The most fun groups involve three epic wizards, that run in different directions and pull from different camps, if you can imagine. The most imperative thing for the puller to remember is to reskin even if barrier of force is still up, make sure it has it's full capacity and won't drop right away. SoW, whether from a sow potion, or one of the poor groupless druids outside that can only dream of an AoE group is a must. (Before you start with the Druids get PB nukes and can AoE at level so and so crap, I just want to say that this is a Wizard site, and I don't want to hear it. Yes I've grouped with 2 wizzies and a high level druid with great success, but I will always prefer 3 wizards) I don't care how long you camped the AC for, your jboots are not fast enough. When you have 800 points of epic skin to save your ass before you start getting hit, and 20 mobs on you that hit for 100+ all it takes is one stun and you will be dead in 2 seconds. A CoH mage can bring you back to the camp spot after you gate for a sow, or you can do it my way =P I personally like to pull with concussion, although a temp flux staff works just as well. Click or cast at a mob from across the room and then haul ass past as many as you can, then run towards the enchanters who are on their feet and stunning - run past them and catch every mob you can in the web, reskin right away, and repeat if you need to grab more. The enchanters at that level can determine on their own how best to lock them down, whether it be mez or stun. If your sow goes, gate out, get another, and train from the zone in. After all, you want the biggest train possible, don't you? =P

3. BUFFS BUFFS BUFFS - Celestial Healing on the puller before they go is imperative. Bringing Pearls and death pacting EVERYONE is imperative - if it saves an enchanter the group lives. If it saves a wizard you might evac. If it saves the cleric then a DA might just do the trick to get them to the portal. Every kind of crap buff is worth taking a few extra seconds for, especially for the puller. Nothing like risking your sow or worse yet your skin being dispelled with that many mobs after you for not taking a few seconds for chill sight, see invis, and other crap.

4. Have the enchanters stand on either sides of the pack and cycle thru their 3/4 stuns effectively, and pray they don't overlap. If done properly their stuns will push the pack into a tighter group and you become more effective. Don't begin nuking until ALL mobs are in the stun web - one nuking frog can stop an enchanter just long enough for you to get spammed with a YOU GET HIT msg until you drop like flies. It's worth the extra 5 seconds of patience to get them all together. If a caster mob is left as the only one, mez it. Enchanters have ToT - I find that the enc's are the pushiest one's in AoE groups about sending me off to get more mobs - with the amount of casters in sebilis they could stun/mez all day long. Charm, if they have room for it, has saved us on a number of occasions as well. Use your imagination.

5. Don't get greedy. Pull in small groups and lock your mobs down. I would rather pull two-four at a time and have one enc on stun duty and the other on mez to lock them down than drop because my greedy ass went for the new world record. You can pull every mob in sebilis not behind a locked door with patience. If the puller drops then it doesn't take long for things to go awry. AoE doesn't allow for mistakes, and the punishment is severe.

6. If you can't handle more, SAY IT.

7. Looting ~ ALWAYS hook up the cleric with the first few gems. Especially in sebilis, they drop every 2 seconds when you're pulling up to 40. In my groups, we roll on all uber loot, each person allowed a max of two, but until then everyone can roll on everything. All gems and spells are freeforall, with the exception of BD's, Black sapphires, and diamonds. When else can a wizard walk out with a nice new pair of Cobalt arms without someone complaining. Be up front about it right away.

8. CR's. A Clothed enchanter is worth so much more than a naked one. Especially if you can save two. Whether you choose to mez/mem blur your way down the corridors to your RIP spot, or charm, or best yet, AoE - do it with caution. I've seen AoE groups pile up 30-35 corpses for a group of 6. I've also seen some of the most amazingly intelligent CR's bar none done with AoE groups.

9. If you're truly good... Hit sebilis at a late night when it's not too crowded. Before you know it, you'll have my favorite camp check in the world. Someone elses group calls out the crypt, and king... then you get your groups call... d1, d2, library, disco, disco hallway, portal, three spawn, NG, necro jail, NJ hallway, chef, bar, arm, zone in. One group, ladies and gentleman, clearing a camp and moving to the next. It can be very nice to see Cobalt Vambraces, a Bonecasters Robe, Cane of the Tranquil, 4 BD's, 2 Black sapphires, a Seb mantle, Book of Obulous, about 5 spells, 3 diamonds, and 30 or so random other gems drop off of one amazing pull.

10. Know your shit. If you don't, learn it. If you don't learn it, everyone dies. Be up front with your group if you're new to the idea before you take their lives into your hands. I've seen people use AE spells that hit four targets. I've seen enchanters think they're supposed to AE mez instead of stun when there's 20 on them. I've seen clerics nuke with upheaval when they should be healing, and go OOM when it's too late. I'll say it again. THERE IS NO MARGIN FOR ERROR.

AoE is without a doubt the best exp, loot, and fun in the game. All it takes is one good pull before the newcomers say "man send me a tell next time you do this, I had no idea". All it takes is one bad group to give AoE a bad name and cause trouble with other camps, and give those that are good at it a bad name.

I personally keep a list of everyone that I have grouped with on the Quellios server in an AoE situation. I rate them by how they did, and confirm with other group members, and ask that they do the same. I think that if you try to do this yourself, it should never be that hard to get an AoE group going (Very easy to lose your 2 encs and cleric in sebilis if you're sitting there waiting). Now, before I get thrown into tell hell by my guild and friends, the first tell I see lately is always the same... "AoE????"

So Velious/Classic AOE group guide. Seems legit. Oh and you want Chardok AOEs?

Chardok Chardok Chardok.

Walking out with a stave of shielding, a sword, mask, boots, and a few other things isn't a bad idea. Mobs don't have outrageous hp either.

Had a good time there, lets get a group going sometime =)

[Man0warr]

Both Rallos and The Rathe had Chardok AE groups before revamp in mid Velious.

Generally a single group at the tunnel exit (1 Warrior, 1 Cleric, 2 Ench, 2 Wiz maybe?) and only 30ish mobs at a time. Connection and graphic cards didn't really allow for more but all the mechanics were the same.

Most groups were doing this for the drops, because Stave of Shielding and SBS were hard to get otherwise. It wasn't a power leveling thing but that was mostly from ignorance.

After Luclin, the AE groups moved to Fungus Grove and Acrylia Caverns.

[Glenzig]

Wizard Forum - October 2001 (http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6048-Sebilis-AoE-The-how-to-Quellious-server)



So Velious/Classic AOE group guide. Seems legit. Oh and you want Chardok AOEs?

But that was 10 months into Velious and only 2 months before Luclin release. We aren't anywhere near that in our timeline yet. Still classic?

[Swish]

Did classic have AOE groups and PLers in 2000-2001. Answer is yes.

So you don't want to say what server you were on with your Chardok aoe groups? Just curiosity.

You want to mention what server you were on that had a +20% EXP bonus?

http://www.bolgernow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/I-call-bullshit.jpg

[Daldaen]

Of course! It's still within our expected timeline (up to Luclin). And game mechanics / spells involved didnt change inbetween then.

[Glenzig]

Of course! It's still within our expected timeline (up to Luclin). And game mechanics / spells involved didnt change inbetween then.

Spells won't change during Velious? No upgrades?

[Daldaen]

The spells in question (DA, PBAE stun, PBAE Nukes). They don't change to last less duration, stun less or do less damage.

[Clark]

The spells in question (DA, PBAE stun, PBAE Nukes). They don't change to last less duration, stun less or do less damage.

[Daldaen]

PS sorry for letting your thread derail Etsu.

If you want to PL 1-50 with uber gear, Druid > Cleric > Bard > Necro > Shaman > Monk > SK > Ranger/Enchanter.

If you want to PL 1-50 with EC gear, nothing 50k+ or clickies. Druid > Bard > Necro > Enchanter.

That's how it breaks down IMO. At higher levels with worse gear, Druid / Necro become pretty close I'd think. Bard begins to taper out if non AoEer.

[Estu]

PS sorry for letting your thread derail Etsu.

If you want to PL 1-50 with uber gear, Druid > Cleric > Bard > Necro > Shaman > Monk > SK > Ranger/Enchanter.

If you want to PL 1-50 with EC gear, nothing 50k+ or clickies. Druid > Bard > Necro > Enchanter.

That's how it breaks down IMO. At higher levels with worse gear, Druid / Necro become pretty close I'd think. Bard begins to taper out if non AoEer.

Thanks dude. I guess I'll level my druid then!

[webrunner5]

Thanks dude. I guess I'll level my druid then!

Druid is hard to beat till like level 25 to 30. Then a Monk is better. I like a Mage high end the best. But a Bard is not shabby either. But they end up pissing the whole zone off with their pulls not that other classes don't.

I gave up PLing long time ago on here. Just too many people playing now. I am not going to Unrest or MM and pull every mob in the entrance and courtyard while some poor Enchanter is trying to learn to charm solo etc. or some SK learning how to FD pull.

[Swish]

WTB insta-60 server, cba leveling...would you vote yes on that?

Live almost did it, the Mayong server started everyone at L51 with 50 AAs...you had SKs in PoK not knowing how to get up from a FD. Was good times and made PoP zones fun again.

[Mandalore93]

Alright, going to try putting this more back on topic from yet another Swish's epileptic "this isn't what I want on the server" fits...

But why is the druid considered so much better in the early game? Is it just because they have a targeted DS?

Just a quick evaluation from memory and a search on P99 wiki-
Druid total DS (Self):Roughly 38 without pots Targeted: 32?
Bard total DS (Self): Roughly 28 without pots (assuming that DS is affected by instrument level, if not then it's a lot lower and I could see why) Targeted: 8 from SS Bracer

[Jizzebel]

This is pretty accurate. I also have some pathing in sol a that helps me refresh kilva's mid pull so i don't have to watch it anymore or refresh when it's low pre pull.

Heallun confirmed best PLer ever

gg , Jizzebel still owe you