How bad is the xp penalty as SK?

[ivcho]

Hi all,

First post and before I go into my question I have to say this project 1999 thing is truly amazing. I have some of my best life memories from my late teens playing classic EQ and now I'm basically reliving them and it's incredible.

Ok, so my question is this. I used to back in the day mostly play a Dark Elf Shadow Knight and was completely ignorant that an XP penalty actually existed, so I suppose I never really noticed anything wrong. Now that I know it exists I'm reluctant to make the same character again as I fear the penalty would be awful.

How bad is it truly for those of you that have played hybrids or penalized races? Is this penalty in place to essentially offset the benefits a certain race or class provides and therefore ultimately you end up leveling at the same rate and don't really notice? Or is it truly a grueling process to level up a hybrid or a penalized race?

Thanks for your thoughts :)

[Duncon]

The hybrid penalty is not so bad. At least in the levels I have played. Other things will impact your leveling rate more than the penalty. You will notice bigger changes in xp rate between a decent group and a bad one, or getting in a sweet spot and not so sweet spot, than with or without a hybrid penalty.

I don’t think you should avoid playing a character you are interested in just because of penalty.

[Stormlight]

I'm not certain why a harsh penalty on knights exists, but for me, it comes down to this: if I'm enjoying my time, the exp penalty doesn't matter. Keep in mind, I haven't played one to 60. ;)

[fishingme]

I can tell you that ranger penalty is terrible. Partnered with a cleric yesterday in unrest and every 1-2 orange I got, he got a level.

[Stormlight]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics#How_Experience_Works

So, final thought...
Group with good players. An equal level group with multiple hybrids generally takes no more than 16% more kills to gain a level that a similarly leveled group that has no hydrids. Good groups kill at least 16% faster than bad groups. So, group with good players regardless of class.

[ivcho]

Hehe yes, but imagine grouping with great players without a penalty!

So, basically what I'm getting is that the penalty is actually pretty bad and the benefits you get from playing a hybrid or penalized race aren't nearly enough to offset it, which is what I was afraid of!

Back to playing my halfling rogue I suppose :(

[Stormlight]

See that sad face? That's why you should play something you enjoy, regardless of exp. Unless your goal is to get to 60 as fast as possible, of course.

[Evedas]

From my experience, time flies when you're grouping with a good group. This is my first time playing the game, and I picked Iksar Shadowknight with 68% penalty, but ever since level 7-8 I started grouping and it only took 3 days to get to 14.

[ivcho]

I shouldn't have put a sadface really.. the halfling guy is pretty fun, but I do miss my SK, just not as much after having read your comments. I like feeling like I'm getting the best possible deal always lol so I wouldn't feel content knowing I'm spending 40% more time on something without getting anything in return really.

And yea I get that time flies when you're in a group and you level quickly, but you would be even higher level and still had a lot of fun if you weren't a hybrid hehe.

My point and what my question was getting at was whether the penalty existed because you actually get a lot of benefits in return making your grind much faster and more efficient and penalty therefore got offset, which doesn't seem to be the case at all from what I hear.

[Fiyero]

The penalty can be pretty harsh. 40% for all hybrids. Iksar/Troll SKs have it the worst, since they add racial penalty making their total 68%. And yeah, I'd say it's noticeable with not much in return right now.

If the penalty bothers you, maybe stick to your rogue for now and wait until Velious to play SK when hybrid penalties are removed.

[kelsoider]

Took a a couple days to get my oger sk to level 9.
I got my halfling warrior to 9 in 3 hours.

[toolshed]

Being level 60 on this server is awful; just look at the raid subforum and the drama between guilds. People are bored. This is also why you see so many twink alts running around.

I am an iksar necro and it's slower than I imagine it, but still fun. Just play what you want, have fun, and enjoy the ride.

[Tewaz]

Ain't no thang on the red server.

[Telemakus]

dunno how accurate this is

http://web.archive.org/web/20020612225100/http://eq.stratics.com/crmaps/eqexp.html

[tanknspank]

I wouldn't feel content knowing I'm spending 40% more time on something without getting anything in return really.
Being a sk/pal you get to be the best group tank outside raids. As a SK you also get some mild solo ability and can duo much better than a warrior. You get to die less because you have FD and self-invisibility.

So it's something that is worth it if you plan to do most of your levleling in dungeons and are passionate about tanking.

Personally I play a HUM SHD. I picked HUM to not add the extra +28% penalty, because I can't stand large races and because I wanted better physical base stats than DEFs get.

[Potus]

This server should have never had Hybrid EXP penalties. It was a mistake by the EQ devs which they later corrected and said they never wish they put it in the game. In the beta, the penalty was put in upon the hilariously bad assumption that Hybrids were better than their parent classes in every regard and that the exp penalty would keep everyone from playing them.

Can anyone with a straight face tell me that Rangers are better than Druids and Warriors?

[holsteinrx7]

its terrible and will be better in velious when its removed. you will level slower than all of ur friends.

[holsteinrx7]

yeah the hybrid penalty was to deter people from playing these highly specialized and strange classes.

i think it worked.

[Potus]

yeah the hybrid penalty was to deter people from playing these highly specialized and strange classes.

i think it worked.

Yup, there were morons in the beta who actually argued that Rangers were the best tanks in the game, because they can wear Rubicite and Dual Wield. It was baffling how stupid both the populace and the developers were during the beta test. Another class considered overpowered was the Wizard, because a bunch of wizards maxed out levels really fast.

How did they do that? Drowning mobs, running them off cliffs, AE'ing them through walls. All eventually got fixed, and Line of Sight casting was added, but you get the idea. Whoever gameplay balanced at launch was a complete moron.

[quido]

Do you experience irregularity?

[Kytross]

Hybrids don't have their autoattack interrupted by casting. It does give them an advantage. Pobably not a 40% exp penalty advantage, but an advantage.

[Rangerdown]

The attack timer ticks down, but you won't swing while casting. For a while on live, if a ranger's gear was good enough, and / or timing bad enough he would do more dps auto attack afking than we would adding "nukes".

IMO the 40% xp penalty is the least frustrating part of hybrids.

[G13]

Hi all,

First post and before I go into my question I have to say this project 1999 thing is truly amazing. I have some of my best life memories from my late teens playing classic EQ and now I'm basically reliving them and it's incredible.

Ok, so my question is this. I used to back in the day mostly play a Dark Elf Shadow Knight and was completely ignorant that an XP penalty actually existed, so I suppose I never really noticed anything wrong. Now that I know it exists I'm reluctant to make the same character again as I fear the penalty would be awful.

How bad is it truly for those of you that have played hybrids or penalized races? Is this penalty in place to essentially offset the benefits a certain race or class provides and therefore ultimately you end up leveling at the same rate and don't really notice? Or is it truly a grueling process to level up a hybrid or a penalized race?

Thanks for your thoughts :)

Don't roll a Troll/Iksar SK unless you're into nails being driven into your cajones

Even with a guise I can't level my Troll SK. It's that painful

[Ephirith]

Do you experience irregularity?

Frequently and violently, and I share it with all my groups :\

[Swish]

I can tell you that ranger penalty is terrible. Partnered with a cleric yesterday in unrest and every 1-2 orange I got, he got a level.

Didnt read all the responses but an iksar monk has a 44% penalty compared to a ranger's 40%, yet theres a ton of them around and people are either ignorant to it or figure its worthwhile.

I switched from an iksar SK to a dark elf one because of the silly amout of difficulty to get a group on my iksar one (40% v 68%)...so min/max players are real, out there and a thorn in every hybrid's side. The best way to level a hybrid is to become the person who makes/leads the group. If you get friendly with a cleric you'll have people flocking to join you ;)

...just dont be picky and become a min/max player in the process who wont invite a wizard/ranger/etc :p

[tanknspank]

Didnt read all the responses but an iksar monk has a 44% penalty compared to a ranger's 40%, yet theres a ton of them around and people are either ignorant to it or figure its worthwhile.
The regen and extra AC make a better monk. The ranger is worse than inviting the specialized class for whatever role you'd use them for.

[Swish]

The regen and extra AC make a better monk. The ranger is worse than inviting the specialized class for whatever role you'd use them for.

Rangers are good pullers tho... better than some monks

[Tewaz]

Seriously, if you want to play a hybrid, play on Red where they are celebrated instead of scorned. Troll/Iksar SK + CoS is nearly impossible to kill on Red if played right.

[holsteinrx7]

Didnt read all the responses but an iksar monk has a 44% penalty compared to a ranger's 40%, yet theres a ton of them around and people are either ignorant to it or figure its worthwhile.

I switched from an iksar SK to a dark elf one because of the silly amout of difficulty to get a group on my iksar one (40% v 68%)...so min/max players are real, out there and a thorn in every hybrid's side. The best way to level a hybrid is to become the person who makes/leads the group. If you get friendly with a cleric you'll have people flocking to join you ;)

...just dont be picky and become a min/max player in the process who wont invite a wizard/ranger/etc :p

you switched to a DE because its easier to get a group? only the SK penalty applies to group xp, the racial xp pen is personal. facepalm fail.

[Potus]

play on Red

[Wanderling]

This server should have never had Hybrid EXP penalties. It was a mistake by the EQ devs which they later corrected and said they never wish they put it in the game. In the beta, the penalty was put in upon the hilariously bad assumption that Hybrids were better than their parent classes in every regard and that the exp penalty would keep everyone from playing them.

Can anyone with a straight face tell me that Rangers are better than Druids and Warriors?

Better than? In absolute terms? No. But that's not really the way I think about the classes/game anyway. More fun than either of the parent classes? HELL YES. All of the classes give something up for everything they gain. I have the most fun on a ranger and that's why I play him.
Am I better than a warrior at soloing? Yes. Tanking? Lol. How bout a druid tank? Sure. Druid quad-kiting/healing? lol.

The unfortunate thing about the penalty is not that it will have a negative effect through YOUR eyes, but through the eyes of OTHERS. Getting turned down for group invites because of the penalty-less-surplus of twinked-out dps classes can get frustrating. *shrug* No one used to care/know about the penalty back in the day but now there are many more min/maxer type people and everyone is in a hurry to get...somewhere.

/rant

[Kender]

I can tell you that ranger penalty is terrible. Partnered with a cleric yesterday in unrest and every 1-2 orange I got, he got a level.

lies. if you were grouped he shared the penalty

[Xer0]

I shouldn't have put a sadface really.. the halfling guy is pretty fun, but I do miss my SK, just not as much after having read your comments. I like feeling like I'm getting the best possible deal always lol so I wouldn't feel content knowing I'm spending 40% more time on something without getting anything in return really.

And yea I get that time flies when you're in a group and you level quickly, but you would be even higher level and still had a lot of fun if you weren't a hybrid hehe.

My point and what my question was getting at was whether the penalty existed because you actually get a lot of benefits in return making your grind much faster and more efficient and penalty therefore got offset, which doesn't seem to be the case at all from what I hear.

SK was my first class on Blue. Being one of the baddest ass tanks around more than makes up for it IMO. nothing grabs aggro like SK's first dot :P

[Ezze]

It's brutal, but that adds to the flavour. I went with an Iksar too :).. was literally falling asleep the first few levels and through the xp bar was broken haha, but then I met this Ogre Shaman named Gunkk and we grouped up on the Field of Bone and then Kurn's Tower and it was a blast.. xp bar apparently wasn't broken as I got a whole level and didn't even notice :)