Necromancers Versus Magicians As Soloers

[Estu]

Some of you may remember my thread earlier about shamen versus druids, in which I was trying to decide which to play. This isn't that; I'm just curious here because of something I've been hearing.

Essentially, I hear all the time about how overpowered mages are, how fast they solo, how much damage they do in groups, and so on. Yet I don't hear this nearly as much about necromancers. Yet, let's look at the facts. As I understand it, the way high level mages take down monsters is they buff the pet, send the pet at it, and maybe nuke it once or twice. If the monster is tough, they'll chain summon the pet.

Let's now look at the necromancer. The necromancer is also capable of chain summoning, and he also has at his disposal dots, lifesteal, hit point to mana conversion, snare, fear, and feign death (I may have forgotten something, but this list is pretty impressive as is). But mages are the ones that are overpowered?

The only way I can see this being the case would be if mage pets were leaps and bounds better than necro pets. And I'm willing to accept this, but I'd like some discussion on it. I know that mages get the nice damage shield on the fire pet (though necros get dots...) and the nice root on the earth pet (though necros have root and snare...). The real breaking point would have to be pet levels or stats; if mages are really so much more overpowered than necros, their pets must have far better stats and/or be far higher leveled than necro pets. Is this the case?

By the way, I'm a bit confused about the effects of weapons on mobs and pets. Mobs don't seem to be at all affected by the weapon they're wielding; an orc centurion (say) wielding nothing, a cracked staff, or a rusty dagger appears to do the same amount of damage and have the same amount of delay (correct me if I'm wrong; I've seen mobs do huge damage with rusty daggers, which is pretty perplexing). What about pets? I've heard varying things, and I might be misremembering, but the two situations I've heard described are that either 1) pets take on only the delay of their weapon but are unaffected by the damage, so low delay weapons make them super-powerful, or 2) pets take on both the damage and delay of their weapon. How do monster and pet weapons work?

[Lelroni]

The only way I can see this being the case would be if mage pets were leaps and bounds better than necro pets.

[Estu]

And I'm willing to accept this, but I'd like some discussion on it.

HERP.

[Qaedain]

Mage pets hit harder, have more hitpoints, better mitigation, better avoidance and (I believe) higher levels.

[yaeger]

You want to discuss which class is easier to solo?

This is classic server but the majority of people seem to gravitate to the solo classes. Kinda the reverse of what I thought it'd be like.

I'm actually getting quickly disenchanted with classic's glaring class balance problems. Please kunark, please be soon.

[Cogwell]

I'm actually getting quickly disenchanted with classic's glaring class balance problems. Please kunark, please be soon.

Last I heard it was going to be live in 20 minutes.

[Estu]

You want to discuss which class is easier to solo?

This is classic server but the majority of people seem to gravitate to the solo classes. Kinda the reverse of what I thought it'd be like.

I'm actually getting quickly disenchanted with classic's glaring class balance problems. Please kunark, please be soon.

With all due respect, and despite my agreeing with your pro-grouping principles, you're kind of derailing the thread. I solo and group on different characters, and like I said at the beginning of the post, this is just something I'm curious about, not something I'm using to choose a class to play. And the question is not about ease of soloing but effectiveness. So what are you saying, if this comment is not completely irrelevant to the thread? That I shouldn't even be discussing which class is the better soloer because I should always be grouping no matter what?

[yaeger]

With all due respect, and despite my agreeing with your pro-grouping principles, you're kind of derailing the thread. I solo and group on different characters, and like I said at the beginning of the post, this is just something I'm curious about, not something I'm using to choose a class to play. And the question is not about ease of soloing but effectiveness. So what are you saying, if this comment is not completely irrelevant to the thread? That I shouldn't even be discussing which class is the better soloer because I should always be grouping no matter what?

No, nothing like that. What I'm saying is that you'll be running around in circles trying to pick the compare and contrast two different solo classes. Especially when they'll change as expansions get released.

Threads like this tend to focus in on one of the other classes being identified as the 'best'.

The other part is that there are already topics which covered this in detail.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10653&highlight=necros+magicians

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12088&highlight=necros+magicians

[Estu]

No, nothing like that. What I'm saying is that you'll be running around in circles trying to pick the compare and contrast two different solo classes. Especially when they'll change as expansions get released.

Threads like this tend to focus in on one of the other classes being identified as the 'best'.

The other part is that there are already topics which covered this in detail.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10653&highlight=necros+magicians

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12088&highlight=necros+magicians

I've actually read both threads before, a while ago, but they were hazy in my mind and I remembered them being not really that definitive and not addressing the specific questions I was interested in. But I'll give them another read through.

[azxten]

Here's the summary of why people complain about Mages but not Necros...

The fire pet gets a higher damage shield than the Mage can cast and the level 20 pet basically has a level 49 damage shield on it. To offset this the fire pet is supposed to be unable to tank as well. Unfortunately the fire pet basically tanks as well as a player tank can but has increased regen as well.

This means Mages can essentially summon a tank partner that gets a high level DS and regen by default meaning they're basically power leveling themselves. This isn't how it was in classic at all. The fire pet got its ass kicked much faster to balance out the damage shield it has.

Something is wrong with the way pets take damage. Another good example of this is watching my girlfriend use the level 8 Necro pet on her SK in upper guk and it was a GREAT off tank for blue/even con mobs to us at level 20. I mean this thing literally took damage as well as she did... the level 8 Necro pet.. on level 18-20 mobs.

Of course the Necro pet doesn't get a damage shield and therein lies the reason why people complain about Mages and not Necros. Both of them have ridiculously overpowered pets at the moment in terms of tanking ability but Mages get that huge DS component too.

[Estu]

Here's the summary of why people complain about Mages but not Necros...

The fire pet gets a higher damage shield than the Mage can cast and the level 20 pet basically has a level 49 damage shield on it. To offset this the fire pet is supposed to be unable to tank as well. Unfortunately the fire pet basically tanks as well as a player tank can but has increased regen as well.

This means Mages can essentially summon a tank partner that gets a high level DS and regen by default meaning they're basically power leveling themselves. This isn't how it was in classic at all. The fire pet got its ass kicked much faster to balance out the damage shield it has.

Something is wrong with the way pets take damage. Another good example of this is watching my girlfriend use the level 8 Necro pet on her SK in upper guk and it was a GREAT off tank for blue/even con mobs to us at level 20. I mean this thing literally took damage as well as she did... the level 8 Necro pet.. on level 18-20 mobs.

Of course the Necro pet doesn't get a damage shield and therein lies the reason why people complain about Mages and not Necros. Both of them have ridiculously overpowered pets at the moment in terms of tanking ability but Mages get that huge DS component too.

But isn't the DS offset by the necro's DoTs, mana regen, life steal, and so on? It just seems like it's not that big an advantage when you consider all the tricks necros have up their sleeves.

[azxten]

But isn't the DS offset by the necro's DoTs, mana regen, life steal, and so on? It just seems like it's not that big an advantage when you consider all the tricks necros have up their sleeves.

Well that's the whole point. Necros have to work for the kill and Mages send their pet in and go AFK basically.

[Qaedain]

I like my Fire Pet's DS. It saves me from dying every time I try to break a ca-- sad trombone (http://sadtrombone.com/)

[azxten]

I like my Fire Pet's DS. It saves me from dying every time I try to break a ca-- sad trombone (http://sadtrombone.com/)

Right.. when breaking high level camps of mobs you have difficulty, oh no. I think mages from 40-50 are balanced in terms of classic it's just leveling from 1-40 that they're ridiculously unbalanced.

[Qaedain]

Can I break the 2nd floor of specs in Oasis? No, but a Necro can.

Can I break most rooms in Mistmoore? No, but a Necro can.

One on one, Mages have an incredible amount of power, but anything that can overwhelm their pet will eventually overwhelm the Mage. We have zero defensive abilities outside of Gate. That is the tradeoff, and I have paid it a hundred times. Any Mage has.

[azxten]

Can I break the 2nd floor of specs in Oasis? No, but a Necro can.

Can I break most rooms in Mistmoore? No, but a Necro can.

One on one, Mages have an incredible amount of power, but anything that can overwhelm their pet will eventually overwhelm the Mage. We have zero defensive abilities outside of Gate. That is the tradeoff, and I have paid it a hundred times. Any Mage has.

Why can't you break the second floor of specs? Pull them and kite them in circles while the pet solos them one at a time with occasionally assistance from you.

Anyway, like I said mages 40-50 are balanced but before that they're overpowered.

[mjavor]

Here's the summary of why people complain about Mages but not Necros...

The fire pet gets a higher damage shield than the Mage can cast and the level 20 pet basically has a level 49 damage shield on it. To offset this the fire pet is supposed to be unable to tank as well. Unfortunately the fire pet basically tanks as well as a player tank can but has increased regen as well.

This means Mages can essentially summon a tank partner that gets a high level DS and regen by default meaning they're basically power leveling themselves. This isn't how it was in classic at all. The fire pet got its ass kicked much faster to balance out the damage shield it has.

Something is wrong with the way pets take damage. Another good example of this is watching my girlfriend use the level 8 Necro pet on her SK in upper guk and it was a GREAT off tank for blue/even con mobs to us at level 20. I mean this thing literally took damage as well as she did... the level 8 Necro pet.. on level 18-20 mobs.

Of course the Necro pet doesn't get a damage shield and therein lies the reason why people complain about Mages and not Necros. Both of them have ridiculously overpowered pets at the moment in terms of tanking ability but Mages get that huge DS component too.

Has the pet problem been confirmed by the devs?

[madara]

Well that's the whole point. Necros have to work for the kill and Mages send their pet in and go AFK basically.

What level range is this? Wish I could go afk with my level 20 pet on blues. I would say half the time I would come back dead or he would be regenerating 80 percent of his health for abit after battle. I actually have to use the healing spell on him while fighting aviaks but I am not twinked with a torch focus so I dont know how much more that changes things. Blue werewolves rip through the pet pretty quick too. There is downtown medding for me for sure especially on the mana side.

[Ruien]

I don't play Mage or Necro (I'm a chanter), but according to the classic spell list:

http://www.crys.org/everquest/spells.htm

The 49 mage fire pet is 200 mana while the 49 necro pet is 490 mana. Isn't that a huge difference when it comes to chain summoning pets? Doesn't seem like anyone has brought this up, so is it insignificant or is it balanced out by other things?

Note that pet casting time is irrelevant because you always dismiss your pet about a second before the new pet spell is finished casting, so i would think this is a significant advantage.

[Itchybottom]

Mage pets are always warriors. Necromancer pets are warriors, monks and rogues. It balances out. Also, chain petting requires quite a bit of space.

[Noselacri]

Pets are not meant to be great tanks, especially not at lower levels. They're supposed to be just able to tank a blue con while the caster nukes/dots it down. If mage pet are power-leveling their owners and single-handedly killing exp mobs with ease, something is absolutely wrong.

[Itchybottom]

Pets are not meant to be great tanks, especially not at lower levels. They're supposed to be just able to tank a blue con while the caster nukes/dots it down. If mage pet are power-leveling their owners and single-handedly killing exp mobs with ease, something is absolutely wrong.

At lower levels I had to heal my ass off on the pet. If I went the nuking route (aside from rains, and praying the pet had enough taunt) I'd be a goner. It's not /pet attack and instant win until 50, and usually only against <level 41. For a mage any how.

[Bubbles]

I can think of one encounter in all of classic where a necro would even consider chain summoning a pet.

Seriously, a necro can kill most blues with 490 mana without wasting extra bone chips.

[Rasterburn]

The answer to the question posed in this thread is relatively simple...

Necromancers are hands-down the most overpowered solo class in the game. I would place wizards in second place (yes, I am serious). Third place would go to druids, who are only a tiny bit behind wizards. Fourth place would go to mages.

Yes, I have played all of the above classes, at one point or another. My main... back in the old days... was a necro. My new main on P99 is likewise a necro, so I speak from experience.

What many of you are not realizing is the fact that there are a lot more things to consider when soloing than the simple DPS that you do. To be a powerful solo class, you also need to be as self-sufficient as possible. Mages fail on that point.

So far as necros go, there is essentially nothing that they can not do all by themselves... except port. They can heal themselves, buff themselves, and they have their own mana regen buffs which rival anything available from a chanter. If they get into hot water, then they can FD right there on the spot and lose aggro. If they die, then they can locate and resurrect their own corpse. If they die at the bottom of some hellish dungeon, then they can summon their own corpse without having to do a grueling CR (which is why most necros keep a stack of reagents in the bank). They have invisibility spells which work against living and undead mobs alike. They can also charm undead mobs and turn them into a pet. In a group, they can heal other players (one-shot and/or HoT pacts) and they can also donate their mana (hence the term "mana battery" for necros on raids). So far as damage goes, their total DPS (both pet and DoT's) rivals that of ANY other class (note that the term "rivals" does not mean "equals"). Their ability to snare and fear mobs, or do the reverse and aggro kite them, enables the necro to solo an uber-mob that would slaughter any normal mage. Or just about any other class, for that matter. If it doesn't summon -- and if the necro has enough mana -- then he or she can solo it. And they do.

So when I consider the question of "best solo class," I'm going to factor in ALL of those different abilities... not just the DPS of my pet. Necros can do it all, without any outside help. Mages, on the other hand, would need a slew of potions and buffs donated by other classes, before they could hope to approach all of the innate abilities of the necro class. And mages still can't heal themselves, if things get out of hand.

All things considered, a necro is the best solo class. No comparison. They were designed that way by Verant.

As for which class can level up the fastest solo..? I'll give that award to the wizzies. Between their high-speed quads and being able to port all over the known world instantly, nobody else can match their XP-per-hour. Druids would be a very close second, in that regard.

[Wenai]

Ohh man do I love this topic.

I played a Necromancer and a Shaman as my mains on live. I had access to an account with a max level magician (60 during kunark/velious and 65 during pop etc). I know both sides of the fence quite well.

In my opinion there is no comparison between a Necromancer and a Magician. As already mentioned in the thread by Qaedin, the only thing a mage can do in a sticky situation is gate. All you can do is abandon ship and leave. That leaves magician as such a limited and handicapped class it isn't even funny.

In a similar situation a necromancer can:

-Root
-Mez
-Fear (outdoors)
-Snare and kite adds (outdoors)
-Feign Death
-Invulnerability
-Heal themselves with Lifetap
-Oh ... and Gate.

Necromancer is so versatile compared to a magician it isn't even funny. The problem with arguing with mages is that their response is always, "Well my pet is better!" or "My pet tanks better!". In an outdoor experience zone.. that is irrelevant because a necromancer pet never has to take damage. Whether you are fear kiting, aggro kiting.. whatever.. your pet never has to take damage.

In an indoor zone, unless the magician is like 20 levels above the content, they are going to have a difficult time breaking rooms. Wheras a necromancer can break two spawns with no effort (Screaming terror one and pull the other). Larger spawn groups are more difficult to break, but doable thanks to FD.

The biggest thing, in my opinion, that makes necromancers far more attractive than a magician, I haven't even touched on yet. That is their mana regeneration rate. Magicians have absolutely NO ABILITY to regen mana (no I don't consider pet-canni and mod rodding yourself mana regeneration). Level 49 Necromancer Lich trades 22 Health for 20 Mana. Clarity gives you 9 Mana per tick. It gives you over twice the amount that Clarity gives you.

Necros can snare, root, fear, mez, feign, invulnerability, heal themselves, heal others, use a pet, etc etc etc etc.

Mages can cast pets and cast nukes.

Oh.. speaking of nukes.

Ignite Blood does 1176 Damage for 250 Mana. That is 4.70 Damage/Mana. (Necro best DoT I think?)

Ignite Bones does 500 Damage for 210 Mana. That is 2.38 Damage/Mana. (Necro best DD)


For Mages:

Lava Bolt does 810 Damage for 300 Mana. That is 2.70 Damage per Mana.


The only benefit Magician has over necromancer in terms of dealing damgae, is the ability to deal damage more quickly. Their damage is much less efficient, combined with their lack of mana regeneration.


With all that being said.. Magicians are not gimp. They are great soloers, just compared to a Necromancer.. in my opinion there is no comparison.

[krforrester]

I have to agree that Necros are better soloers in most situations. The areas where a mage is better is in a tight dungeon crawl without a lot of roamers. However, if things go south, the mage gates whereas the necro FD's and tries again.

[NostalgicGuy]

The answer to the question posed in this thread is relatively simple...

Necromancers are hands-down the most overpowered solo class in the game.

What many of you are not realizing is the fact that there are a lot more things to consider when soloing than the simple DPS that you do.

So far as necros go, there is essentially nothing that they can not do all by themselves... except port.

+1

This is the truth. A magician can out-dps a necro for a while, then runs out of mana. I played a mage in original in 1999, and gradually lost that feeling of power as I levelled up, and eventually grew to be in awe of necros.

Mage pet dies = magician gates or dies. Necro pet dies = snare, fear, root, stun, shadowstep, harmshield, heal, feign.

Necromancer over time = a lot more efficient as well.

Given some room, or against undead, a necro can do some crazy stuff.

Also, as a diff example, I remember losing our healer in the Fungi King area in Old Sebilis - our necro took over and kept the group alive and killing! Some extremely impressive play from a necro.

Necros were probably the most misunderstood class in the game in my experience. (maybe 'cause no group wanted them/they always out soloing).

One thing though, playing a necro well/efficiently is a hell of a lot of work compared to most other classes (16 spell slots wouldn't go amiss).

[Noselacri]

Well, that's how it's meant to be, I think everyone realizes this. The problem would be what some previous poster described: low-level mage pets having max-level DS and abnormal regen. If that's true, it's a bug and should be fixed.

[Humwawa]

I don't understand the necro / mage argument crap.

A mage is a wizard who sacrificed mobility, more involved control, and diversity in nuke types in return for the ability to summon objects (a mod rod) and a strong pet.

A necro is a utility class with high durability, multiple forms of crowd control, efficient damage in the form of dots, various health/mana conversions, and a pet (the Dot with Health, as I call him).

Anything you need to know can be derived from this.

[Messianic]

As for which class can level up the fastest solo..? I'll give that award to the wizzies. Between their high-speed quads and being able to port all over the known world instantly, nobody else can match their XP-per-hour. Druids would be a very close second, in that regard.

I really don't buy it. You'd have to tell me about those elite quad-kiting locations in the old world that will make 29-50 fast enough as to outpace as easy as it is for necros/mages to solo from 1-50 generally.

Guess how long it takes a wizard to even get from 1-29 vs a mage/necro...

[HippoNipple]

I really don't buy it. You'd have to tell me about those elite quad-kiting locations in the old world that will make 29-50 fast enough as to outpace as easy as it is for necros/mages to solo from 1-50 generally.

Guess how long it takes a wizard to even get from 1-29 vs a mage/necro...

Yeah I agree with this, Rasterburn is just flat out wrong with this one.

[Rasterburn]

Guess how long it takes a wizard to even get from 1-29 vs a mage/necro...


Yep. And as soon as they hit 29... BAM. They pull ahead like a bat out of hell. Regardless of whether it's old world, Kunark, or wherever. A good wizard will find a place to hunt. A mediocre wizard won't. Get your J-Boots and your spam stick and head out in search of prey. Just be sure to get a brain buff from a friendly chanter first.

Combine the above with the fact that when questing, a wiz can gate to one part of the world and get their drops, then gate back to the other side of the world instantly to do their turn-ins. Meanwhile, everybody else is either begging for a TL, or else hoofin' it and taking the boats. When you add up all of that travel time, the wizzies and druids leave everybody else in the dust.

Yeah I agree with this, Rasterburn is just flat out wrong with this one.

Negative. He simply doesn't know how to do it.

[Aetherial]

Here's the summary of why people complain about Mages but not Necros...

The fire pet gets a higher damage shield than the Mage can cast and the level 20 pet basically has a level 49 damage shield on it. To offset this the fire pet is supposed to be unable to tank as well. Unfortunately the fire pet basically tanks as well as a player tank can but has increased regen as well.

This means Mages can essentially summon a tank partner that gets a high level DS and regen by default meaning they're basically power leveling themselves. This isn't how it was in classic at all. The fire pet got its ass kicked much faster to balance out the damage shield it has.

Something is wrong with the way pets take damage. Another good example of this is watching my girlfriend use the level 8 Necro pet on her SK in upper guk and it was a GREAT off tank for blue/even con mobs to us at level 20. I mean this thing literally took damage as well as she did... the level 8 Necro pet.. on level 18-20 mobs.

Of course the Necro pet doesn't get a damage shield and therein lies the reason why people complain about Mages and not Necros. Both of them have ridiculously overpowered pets at the moment in terms of tanking ability but Mages get that huge DS component too.

I do remember back in the day, someone *proved* that a necro pet could tank better than a warrior of the same level. I think what they did was send in a necro pet and a warrior of the same level 1v1 against a giant. The necro pet owned the giant. The warrior died.

(of course the definition of "tank" was limited to taking and giving damage without any intelligence).

The reason why the game was this way has never been explained, probably because there is no logical explanation.

Imagine if warriors had pets that cast more powerful nukes or DS's than mages or DoT's more powerful than necros?

The fact is, in the original EQ, pet classes, and casters in general, were way overpowered.

As to which is better... I think it is probably a toss up.

Pets should be like the enchanter pet, able to tank somewhat, and pretty stupid.

[Rasterburn]

I disagree that casters are overpowered. Try to remember that they gained that power at the expense of durability. A caster class HAS to kill faster than anyone else, because that's pretty much the only defense that they have (especially true for wizards). Kill the mob, before the mob kills you. And since a wizzy can be splattered if he gets hit two or three times, it is imperative that his burst DPS be extraordinarily high.

[hedbonker]

able to tank somewhat, and pretty stupid

Isn't that a pally?

[Tallenn]

People seem to be talking about a couple of different things.

All in all, the necromancer is a far more flexible and powerful class (really, than ANYONE else). If you die soloing a necro, you either had a client crash, or you're not paying attention. For a mage, if things go bad, it's gate or die- that's IT. A necro can often turn a bad situation into a huge experience gain, and can wait until the last moment to decide it's not worth it, and get a free "do-over".

However, in terms of pure speed of killing mobs solo, or even in a group, unless the group is killing reds (so they take long enough to kill for the necros DOTs to be worth casting), there's no contest, and it's complete because of the mage's pet.

Watch the two classes soloing some time. A mage pet will take considerable hits, while all the mage has to do is heal it, which they seem able to do with no problem. I've even heard many mages complain that they have to hit the mob with a low-level nuke in order not to lose most of the experience, because it's faster and more efficient to just let the pet kill the mob while mage heals it. A necro on the other hand has to make sure the pet doesn't take much damage, because it will go down like a cheerleader on prom night. The necro has heals, but it's just not efficient. Also, until level 34, that mana conversion isn't really all that, trust me. Mage pet DS + heals is just much more efficient than necro DoTs + weak pet (which is really just another DoT).

But again, if things take a bad turn, the mage will probably die; the necro almost certainly won't.

[nalkin]

Necro is way more flexible, and much better at breaking camps, so overall they are better soloers than mages.

Mages are better at killing single mobs due to chain petting (not healing^)

[Yoite]

necos get free AoN thats all you need to know man.

[Estu]

necos get free AoN thats all you need to know man.

What's AoN?

[Noleafclover]

People beat around the bush here.

Mage pet has level + 1 damage shield, costs 200 mana, lives to kill 3 blue mobs, gets reclaimed for 110ish mana, recast. 90 mana spent in 3 minutes, 3 mobs killed, likely 3x 90 mana regened. Mana goes up while you chain kill things.

Similar story at lower levels, although since healing isn't as mana efficient (not large enough pet hp pull), you pretty much stay even or have a slight mana gain while healing the pet.

[Estu]

People beat around the bush here.

Mage pet has level + 1 damage shield, costs 200 mana, lives to kill 3 blue mobs, gets reclaimed for 110ish mana, recast. 90 mana spent in 3 minutes, 3 mobs killed, likely 3x 90 mana regened. Mana goes up while you chain kill things.

Similar story at lower levels, although since healing isn't as mana efficient (not large enough pet hp pull), you pretty much stay even or have a slight mana gain while healing the pet.

Doesn't this ignore recasting to get the highest level pet? Or is this unimportant?

Also: I appreciate the discussion on mages and necros but can anyone also offer some insight on the pet and mob weapon question?

[Elissa]

People beat around the bush here.

Mage pet has level + 1 damage shield, costs 200 mana, lives to kill 3 blue mobs, gets reclaimed for 110ish mana, recast. 90 mana spent in 3 minutes, 3 mobs killed, likely 3x 90 mana regened. Mana goes up while you chain kill things.

Similar story at lower levels, although since healing isn't as mana efficient (not large enough pet hp pull), you pretty much stay even or have a slight mana gain while healing the pet.

I dunno, 3 is pushing it at higher levels, and you're definitely assuming all solo pulls. Also, if you're pulling seafuries or something you're not going to kill 3 of them without a single heal or nuke.

[nalkin]

If you are level 45+ on a mage and outside a group you should not be nuking. Unless you are fighting multiple mobs at once and you don't have room to maneuver. The only thing you should be doing as a high level mage is chain petting fire.

[Noleafclover]

I dunno, 3 is pushing it at higher levels, and you're definitely assuming all solo pulls. Also, if you're pulling seafuries or something you're not going to kill 3 of them without a single heal or nuke.

Had just come from specs vs. 44 pet, so yeah, that's prolly not the fairest baseline. But seafuries are the other extreme (1.5 lv. 44 pets per seafury). Seems like the answer would be 2 mobs per pet average, or a little less, 39+ (when you start chaining), assuming blues a few levels below you.

A single heal? If we're talking higher levels, it's really inefficient to heal past 39 (could make an argument for 34, but you lose dps then when not giving pet weapons). I only did it at kedge front room 'cause the mana requirement was peanuts, and I couldn't go any further.

[Noleafclover]

If you are level 8+* on a mage and outside a group you should not be nuking. (aside from special circumstances)

*Fixed.

[Tseng]

Lies, Burst of Flame counts as a nuke.

[Noleafclover]

Lies, Burst of Flame counts as a nuke.

Burn! 7m 14 damage, same cast time. It's really the reason mages are broken.

[Lelroni]

This might have been mentioned, but to the people saying our pets are soloing while we afk, or taking mobs down without any assistance from the mage at all, if we let that happen, then our exp from that mob turns to shit. We get what, 25% of the exp? But on the other hand, we just need to do 1 damage to get the full experience points. I'm not saying mages are bad, but when kunark rolls out I'm sure necro's will be better aswell. (I remember something about fire pets turning to crap in kunark, dont' they start to cast spells? not 100% sure.)