John VS. Juan - While you play Elf sims....

[Rust1d?]

JOHN vs. JUAN
You have two families: "John Legal" and "Juan Illegal". Both families have two parents, two children, and live in Arizona ..

John Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Juan Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 in cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention....

John Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; John Legal now has $31,231.00.

Juan Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200 per year.Juan Illegal pays no taxes. Juan Illegal now has $31,200.00.

John Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. John Legal now has $24,031.00.

Juan Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency hospitals at a cost of $0.00 per year. Juan Illegal still has $31,200.00.


John Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. John Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000..00 per year. John Legal now has $18,031.00.

Juan Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Juan Illegal still has $31,200.00.

John Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. John Legal now has 9,631.00.

Juan Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent Subsidy. Juan Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Juan Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

John Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Some of that is uninsured motorist insurance. John Legal now has $7,231.00.

Juan Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

John Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Juan Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month..

John Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Juan Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

John Legal's and Juan Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. John Legal pays for his children's lunches, while Juan Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Juan Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. John Legal's children go home.

Now, when they reach college age, John Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not qualify for scholarships, grants or other tuition help, even though John has been paying for state schools through his taxes, while Juan Illegal's kids "go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

John Legal and Juan Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but John paid for them and Juan did not pay.

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens... You are part of the problem!

[Rust1d?]

Taken from another site ^^

[Champion_Standing]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kim-jong-un-clapping-gif.gif

[bigal1341]

Couldn't have said it better. +1

[Oleris]

juan
http://www.pwmania.com/specials/exclusive/gallery350/000.jpg


john
http://www.beinglovingdoing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/jc.jpg

[Lictor]

Whitey better not let the illegals compare notes with unemployed blacks living off free govt money checks or we all be damned.

[JayN]

where do I sign up to be a Juan please

[Portasaurus]

Takes Juan... To know Juan!!

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Whitey better not let the illegals compare notes with unemployed blacks living off free govt money checks or we all be damned.

[iruinedyourday]

every day this mother fucker wakes up and starts crying about shit that he doesn't understand at all.

[Juryiel]

The first two things I looked for was the tax brackets (25% rather than 30% when filing single, probably much less if he has dependents like kids as your story), and food stamp guidelines which seem to suggest you need to have a social security number and not be an illegal immigrant.

Nice fairy tale if you're just looking for something easily digestible and congruent with existing beliefs though, so you get points for that.

[zanderklocke]

every day this mother fucker wakes up and starts crying about shit that he doesn't understand at all.

[JayN]

these are legitimate fox news facts here people

[Estolcles]

Yay bigotry!

Still, John Cena is infinitely better than Juan Cena. 5 Moves of Doom vs. Cinco Moves of Doom.

[loramin]

these are legitimate fox news facts here people

And everyone knows that Fox News facts are better than regular facts, because they're made by hand!

[loramin]

BTW, if anyone is actually curious about this, the Snopes forum has already debunked this:

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=47660

[Rust1d?]

lol nobody debunked anything. Fact of the matter is they are ILLEGAL. You steal? That's ILLEGAL. You go to jail. Murder? That's ILLEGAL too. Maybe you want to rape? Nope..ILLEGAL.

Crossing the border ILLEGALLY is ILLEGAL. What don't you understand?

[Swish]

Mentioned this before but there's hardworking people out there (like me <3 :D) who would love the opportunity to get a visa to work in the US, but its rightly capped at such a small number now.

I wonder why?

[Rust1d?]

I know there are many hard working people (I know a few personally) who program etc who would like to come here legally and work (they are Eastern European BTW).

People with actual brains, not tomato pickers. But I guess farmers etc do not want to may min. wage when they can hire a few Mexicants for a few dollars an hour, not have to pay medical, dental etc etc. So the US would rather have a bunch of tomato pickers than computer programmers (especially white computer programmers)

[Eunomia]

I wish I cared enough about your opinion to correct you.

But alas...

[katrik]

It's fucked up, and backwards. I fully support welfare and immigration reform.

[Zadrian]

Maybe instead of trying to go after the illegal immigrants, you go after the companies that hire those illegal immigrants.

[katrik]

Both need to be done IMO

[Azure]

every day this mother fucker wakes up and starts crying about shit that he doesn't understand at all.

IKR, why the fuck bitch about the Johns and Juans when you have the Rockeffellers and BP, and Dupont, and Murdochs?

[Zadrian]

IKR, why the fuck bitch about the Johns and Juans when you have the Rockeffellers and BP, and Dupont, and Murdochs?

and Kochs

[Rust1d?]

I wish I cared enough about your opinion to correct you.

But alas...

So you are all for illegal immigration I assume? Does the work illegal even have meaning to you? I guess you live your life without laws...I hope you get robbed, because according to you, it is okay.

[Rust1d?]

Maybe instead of trying to go after the illegal immigrants, you go after the companies that hire those illegal immigrants.

Unless the companies are helping them cross the border, what is the point? That is like putting a cast on your leg when you broke your arm.

You want to stop the bleeding you do it at the source...the borders.

[Lune]

Unless the companies are helping them cross the border, what is the point? That is like putting a cast on your leg when you broke your arm.

You want to stop the bleeding you do it at the source...the borders.

Why would they come in if they can't get jobs? How about we start cracking down on employers employing these people? You know it's business interests driving the obstruction to immigration reform, right?

AND secure the border.

[Glenzig]

How many Canadians have jobs in America?

[Rust1d?]

Why would they come in if they can't get jobs? How about we start cracking down on employers employing these people? You know it's business interests driving the obstruction to immigration reform, right?

AND secure the border.

True, it is a two pronged approach, but you need to at least slow/stop the bleeding, and at the same time, take it to businesses. Most of them however are farms and landscaping companies..there are so many, big and small.

[Arkaan]

Easiest solution is for everyone to become Juan Illegal, breaking the system and forcing reformation.

[loramin]

So you are all for illegal immigration I assume? Does the work illegal even have meaning to you? I guess you live your life without laws...I hope you get robbed, because according to you, it is okay.

You know what else was illegal?


insulting the king
helping a freed slave escape, or teaching one to read
letting a Native Americans child live with their parents
not reporting a Jew in Nazi Germany
having sex with someone of the same gender
letting a woman vote
lots of other really stupid stuff

The point is, if you blindly follow the laws you're a sheep at best and a Nazi at worst. Instead of talking about "illegal" having a meaning (and for the record, a person can't be "illegal") maybe you should try thinking about right and wrong.

[Faron]

The immigration issue is 100% increasing # of democrat voters, and they've got the peasants arguing about right vs. wrong. Brilliant.

[loramin]

The immigration issue is 100% increasing # of democrat voters, and they've got the peasants arguing about right vs. wrong. Brilliant.

Well, consider this: close to 40% of Hispanics in this country vote Republican already, despite the party's stance on immigration. Just imagine if that stance changed.

[Kayso]

The problem with John is that he's hypothetical and doesn't exist. Neither does Juan.

If John can be replaced so easily by Juan, John's job is not really that good. Juan isn't making near that kind of pay either.

I don't know how hypothetical John or Juan could afford to support a family. The real John and the real Juan sure as fuck can't. I think that's your issue.

P.S. The real Juan doesn't typically receive social benefits either. Hypothetical Juan is just a construct to outrage the real John's of the world into thinking that they actually contribute more than they take. Real John doesn't pay shit in taxes -- He has no right to bitch about Juan.

[Kayso]

*the real Johns.

Fuck no edit for typos.

[Lictor]

I enjoy the LGBT community on these boards just blindly following and advocating for every extreme left posistion bc that party supports their lifestyle.

Do some critical thinking of your own for once. Research both sides of the issue and make up your own mind. Don't be sheep.

[iruinedyourday]

I enjoy the LGBT community on these boards just blindly following and advocating for every extreme left posistion bc that party supports their lifestyle.

Do some critical thinking of your own for once. Research both sides of the issue and make up your own mind. Don't be sheep.

you realise the LGBT community on these boards blindly advocates stuff in threads where people are like n****r, n****r, n****r... right?

yall mother fuckers on this forum got problems.

hey check this shit out, insted of posting about this stupid fucking shit, here is a gif of an awesome jellyfish or some shit.

http://i.imgur.com/JrpT9QC.gif

[Lictor]

How does a racial slur have anything to do with what I posted?

[iruinedyourday]

http://boswelling.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/tumblr_lwjyzw0lun1r50nwho1_250.gif

[Sidelle]

About a decade ago I tried to get food stamps to help me out (single mother working full time with one child) because my ex was nowhere to be found and he wasn't paying any child support. I was literally told I make too much and that if I had more kids they would be able to approve me. It was said in such a way where it really felt like I was being encouraged to breed. Wtf is that shit about?

[Lictor]

That explains a lot, thanks for posting.

[Lictor]

Bah meant to quote the gif

[loramin]

How does a racial slur have anything to do with what I posted?

How does what you posted have anything to do with this thread? What does LGBT rights have to do with immigration law?

[Azure]

I love you hurb. I really do. But no, I will not be your little elven princess sex slave.

[Rust1d?]

You forget:

Juan earns no social security credits. Juan is not a part of the credit system.

When Juan can no longer dig ditches 10 hours a day, Juan is fucked.

Now, get fucked OP. :) Go be off the books if its so great, fucking retard.

Fuck you. He goes back to Mexico asshole and lives like a fucking king.

[Rust1d?]

You know what else was illegal?


insulting the king
helping a freed slave escape, or teaching one to read
letting a Native Americans child live with their parents
not reporting a Jew in Nazi Germany
having sex with someone of the same gender
letting a woman vote
lots of other really stupid stuff

The point is, if you blindly follow the laws you're a sheep at best and a Nazi at worst. Instead of talking about "illegal" having a meaning (and for the record, a person can't be "illegal") maybe you should try thinking about right and wrong.

Blindly follow laws? Guess you just live in your own world then...

[Lictor]

How does what you posted have anything to do with this thread? What does LGBT rights have to do with immigration law?

I see my point went straight over your head if you cannot see the causal connection from what I wrote. Do you also blindly believe whatever your party tells you too, and click straight ticket on the ballot?

[iruinedyourday]

I see my point went straight over your head if you cannot see the causal connection from what I wrote. Do you also blindly believe whatever your party tells you too, and click straight ticket on the ballot?

You're point may have gone over my head as well.

I read your post like 5 times and then responded to it and you seemed to think i was speaking a different lanugage.

perhaps you do not speak earthling.

[Emile]

"It's the law of the land" when you like it; "stop blindly following laws" when you don't.

[loramin]

Blindly follow laws? Guess you just live in your own world then...

Brilliant rebuttal.

[loramin]

I see my point went straight over your head if you cannot see the causal connection from what I wrote. Do you also blindly believe whatever your party tells you too, and click straight ticket on the ballot?

First off, you know what they say happens when you assume right? I'm no Democrat, I'm like half Libertarian and half Peace and Freedom party. And I certainly don't do what either one of them tells me, because both are at least half-crazy.

But your point didn't (and still doesn't) make any sense: again, LGBT rights have nothing to do with immigration law. Unless you believe everything Fox News tells you, in which case you probably think that the communists, gays, hippies, democrats, uppity ******s, etc. are all conspiring to destroy this great white Christian nation .. and in that case there's no hope for logically reasoning with you.

[iruinedyourday]

"It's the law of the land" when you like it; "stop blindly following laws" when you don't.

this is rnf poetry.

[Eliseus]

The issue is I have doesn't have anything to even do with the income they make etc. It has to do with the rules. It is the rules that they have to wait in line etc. Not just illegally come into the US, then just be welcomed with open arms. If they are already breaking the rules, they will probably break even more, better yet, those actually following the rules get screwed.

[loramin]

The issue is I have doesn't have anything to even do with the income they make etc. It has to do with the rules. It is the rules that they have to wait in line etc. Not just illegally come into the US, then just be welcomed with open arms. If they are already breaking the rules, they will probably break even more, better yet, those actually following the rules get screwed.

Actually, they just did a study comparing states that deported immigrants for minor crimes, and states that didn't. As it turns out, there's no difference in the crime rate of the states that deported people for minor offenses; in other words, immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes than non-immigrants.

As for "those actually following the rules get screwed", I agree. But I also think that some poor guy from Guatemala who walks all the way to America to take a job no American wants so that he can support his family isn't the "bad guy", and when he gets deported I also think he is being screwed too.

Basically the system itself is screwed, and as a result people are going to keep getting screwed until it's reformed.

[Eliseus]

What I pointed out actually had nothing to do with "illegal immigrants will commit more crimes than non illegals". It was "an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules" and you actually pointed that out by commenting on deported people committing minor offenses.

I'm not saying all will, just pointing out patterns that exist even in US citizens, and just in general people.

[iruinedyourday]

What I pointed out actually had nothing to do with "illegal immigrants will commit more crimes than non illegals". It was "an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules" and you actually pointed that out by commenting on deported people committing minor offenses.

I'm not saying all will, just pointing out patterns that exist even in US citizens, and just in general people.

"an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules"

"an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules"

Can someone enplane to me how these two marginally differently worded sentences are different at all??!!!

It looks pretty clear to me, Eliseus that you ARE in fact the father.. Shit I mean, that you ARE IN FACT very clearly saying that "an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules"

[iruinedyourday]

fuck! how did that happen?! crap!!! i hate how u cant edit posts in this forum damnit!... the two sentences in quotes are identical, its suposed to be the two seperaat sentences Eliseus quoted:

"an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules"

vs

"illegal immigrants will commit more crimes than non illegals".

those are two different wordings of the same statement.

[Eliseus]

No it's not. One is stating that illegal immigrants will commit more crimes than other people. The other is stating that illegal immigrants will more than likely, keep breaking the rules, with no reference to anyone else besides themselves, because they are already breaking the rules..... Comprehension is hard?

[iruinedyourday]

No it's not. One is stating that illegal immigrants will commit more crimes than other people. The other is stating that illegal immigrants will more than likely, keep breaking the rules, with no reference to anyone else besides themselves, because they are already breaking the rules..... Comprehension is hard?

I guess I see what you mean here. Hmm In experience I find it the opposite.

Mexicans where I live (near the border) Are so fucking careful when they drive.

When they get into a car accident they are respectful and desperate to get the situation over as cleanly as possible so they dont get deported etc.

Generally I find they are way better than some a hole 20 something throwing beer bottles up in the air at 2 am in the middle of the road, cus there's like very little consequences in their happy legal lives :)

[loramin]

Right, what you said/are saying is:

"an illegal already breaking the rules will more than likely still break the rules"

Now that first quote as written doesn't make any sense. A) people can't be illegal, and B) you say "an illegal already breaking the rules" as if there were undocumented immigrants that weren't breaking the rules. By definition if you are an "illegal" in the sense that you violated immigration law, then you're a rule breaker. There are no "not already breaking the rules" undocumented immigrants.

But if you interpret it how I think you meant it, then (as iruniedyourday pointed out), what you're saying is that people who break the [immigration] rules are more likely to break other [non-immigration] rules. And you further assert that this is true because:

just pointing out patterns that exist even in US citizens, and just in general people.

But the thing is, there's a world of difference between a person that sneaks in to a country to work and support their family and someone who robs liquor stores. There's no logical reason to assume that just because John (who just robbed a liquor store) IS more likely to commit crimes, Juan (who overstayed his vacation visa) is also more likely.

But regardless of what either of us assumes or thinks, what I'm trying to tell you is, academics at a university conducted a study to consider this exact question: do undocumented immigrants commit more crimes than documented American citizens? And what they found was that they are NOT.

Sometimes things we assume just aren't true, and it takes empirical evidence to make us realize it.

[loramin]

Also, here's a couple of links if you want to be critical (which I strongly encourage) of what I'm saying and verify the facts for yourself:

Study I'm talking about:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/us/deportations-dont-lower-crime-rates-study-says.html?_r=0

A previous study on the same topic:
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0

[loramin]

No it's not. One is stating that illegal immigrants will commit more crimes than other people. The other is stating that illegal immigrants will more than likely, keep breaking the rules, with no reference to anyone else besides themselves, because they are already breaking the rules..... Comprehension is hard?

Here's what I find hard to comprehend: if you're only referencing undocumented immigrants, how can you say they will commit more anything, since there's no one to compare to? I can't say
"Red Sox fans make more rude comments" unless there's an implicit "than non-Red Sox fans". And you can't say undocumented immigrants are more likely to "keep breaking the rules" unless you have an implicit "than documented immigrants and/or citizens".

[Eliseus]

Well obviously there is exceptions the rules. There always is. That is why I say more likely than not. I don't know any illegal immigrants at all, so I reserve judgement that hopefully they wouldn't, but, people tend to not break patterns, at least very easily, hence why there is addiction (whether you think it is relevant or not to this discussion). For example, a family on welfare tends to have most the children living on welfare, and their children. Or people who commit X crime tend to commit X crime again.

I'm really not advocating that there shouldn't be some kind of system to help illegal immigrants, but (yeah, theirs always the but) it's unfair to create an exception for them, and the potential for harm they could bring to the community (weather it is economic, criminal, anything) based off of just natural human patterns (is that what you would call it?). They should all be deported, and should have to wait in line just like everyone else.

[Eliseus]

Here's what I find hard to comprehend: if you're only referencing undocumented immigrants, how can you say they will commit more anything, since there's no one to compare to? I can't say
"Red Sox fans make more rude comments" unless there's an implicit "than non-Red Sox fans". And you can't say undocumented immigrants are more likely to "keep breaking the rules" unless you have an implicit "than documented immigrants and/or citizens".

Because there is studies that display patterns in human beings? I don't need to compare it to other people, I can base it just off the fact they already broke the law, why wouldn't they again?

[iruinedyourday]

They should all be deported, and should have to wait in line just like everyone else.

you do, not have my 'votesky' comrade :)

on a side note, legal corporations & banks do WAY MORE HARM than illegals do... were spinning our wheels in this thread! :D

[Eliseus]

you do, not have my 'votesky' comrade :)

on a side note, legal corporations & banks do WAY MORE HARM than illegals do... were spinning our wheels in this thread! :D

This is an issue all in itself, people trying to validate more illegal activity based upon the premises that there is already illegal activity happening, so why not.

[loramin]

Well obviously there is exceptions the rules. There always is. That is why I say more likely than not. I don't know any illegal immigrants at all, so I reserve judgement that hopefully they wouldn't, but, people tend to not break patterns, at least very easily, hence why there is addiction (whether you think it is relevant or not to this discussion). For example, a family on welfare tends to have most the children living on welfare, and their children. Or people who commit X crime tend to commit X crime again.

So, here's something we can both agree on, a logical extension of what you said: undocumented immigrants are more likely than documented immigrants/citizens to have undocumented children and to violate immigration laws again. What's not logical is saying that because a man is willing to risk his life and travel for months just to get a job, that he's more likely to be a criminal. The evidence shows that's just not true.

Now for the TLDR part.

You said you didn't know any illegal immigrants. Well, as it happens, I know the most famous one in America, Jose Antonio Vargas. Jose went to the same high school as me, and he was the hardest working person I knew: he slept like 3 hours, was involved in tons of extra curricular activities (I knew him through Speech and Debate; his rendition of The Highwayman was incredible), and got straight A's. He was also incredibly kind, and would do anything for a friend. Since high school he's gotten himself a Pulitzer prize, been on The Colbert Report, and "come out" as an undocumented immigrant.

Jose was brought here when he was just a kid; he had no choice in the matter. He didn't even know his status until he turned 16 and tried to get a driver's license. Now, despite having done Pulitzer-award winning journalism, Jose risks being deported to a country he hasn't been in since he was like 7.

I'm telling you all this because undocumented immigrants are people, and we should have empathy for them. When you don't know anyone of certain group, it's hard to have empathy, but hopefully the next time you start to envision the evil job-stealing, law-breaking, "illegal" immigrant that you've never met but Fox News tells you exists, try to think of Jose. And the many other good people who are undocumented but don't fit Fox News stereotypes.

[Eliseus]

So, here's something we can both agree on, a logical extension of what you said: undocumented immigrants are more likely than documented immigrants/citizens to have undocumented children and to violate immigration laws again. What's not logical is saying that because a man is willing to risk his life and travel for months just to get a job, that he's more likely to be a criminal. The evidence shows that's just not true.

Now for the TLDR part.

You said you didn't know any illegal immigrants. Well, as it happens, I know the most famous one in America, Jose Antonio Vargas. Jose went to the same high school as me, and he was the hardest working person I knew: he slept like 3 hours, was involved in tons of extra curricular activities (I knew him through Speech and Debate; his rendition of The Highwayman was incredible), and got straight A's. He was also incredibly kind, and would do anything for a friend. Since high school he's gotten himself a Pulitzer prize, been on The Colbert Report, and "come out" as an undocumented immigrant.

Jose was brought here when he was just a kid; he had no choice in the matter. He didn't even know his status until he turned 16 and tried to get a driver's license. Now, despite having done Pulitzer-award winning journalism, Jose risks being deported to a country he hasn't been in since he was like 7.

I'm telling you all this because undocumented immigrants are people, and we should have empathy for them. When you don't know anyone of certain group, it's hard to have empathy, but hopefully the next time you start to envision the evil job-stealing, law-breaking, "illegal" immigrant that you've never met but Fox News tells you exists, try to think of Jose. And the many other good people who are undocumented but don't fit Fox News stereotypes.

You are obviously one of those people that believes all illegal immigrants are like the 1 that posts to a media outlet like fox news (just assuming, since you pointed out fox news, assuming you read it a lot) that he traveled millions of miles for the sake of his children to blah blah blah. Again (I feel like a broken record here), but there is exceptions to the rules, it still doesn't validate breaking the rules. It's like the random guy who steal from a store a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, what do you do? It's still breaking the rules. This is why there is such a grey area in so many legal issues, because people like you create grey areas in such an easy thing to understand.

[Eliseus]

Also, no one said I DON'T have empathy for them, but I have more empathy for the people doing it the legal way, which you seem to wholeheartedly ignore.

[loramin]

So then, do you think Jose, and immigrants like him, should be deported? Even though they've lived here all of their adult lives (and for most of their childhood)?

In other words, do you think the problem is with the rules, or with the rule-breaker?

[Eliseus]

It's both. If a homeless person moves into my closet, and I don't find out for years. It doesn't mean he should be allowed to stay, but there should be a system in place to better help people who want a better life. That being said, it still doesn't change what we currently have, and people should abide by those rules till there is change. Maybe the currently situations though will hopefully push something better to happen for change. There is a real concern though. I know this is going to sound blunt, because I honestly do wish the best for everyone, but the US can't just let everyone in. We have a lot of opportunity in the US compared to most other countries, it not, better than all countries. With that though also brings in a lot of conflicts. Ultimately, I hope things are weighed and judge appropriately to be beneficial for all parties.

[Eliseus]

In "Maybe the currently situations though will hopefully push something better to happen for change." I mean hopefully push something better to happen faster.

[Eliseus]

make weed legal morans

Lol, that's an entirely different subject all together. I'm actually completely against this because the reason most people want weed legal is to get high with friends. Not for the other benefits. Let's not ignore the supposed medical reasoning to use weed can also be extracted from weed and put into a capsule form. I also like to base a lot of my judgements off of scientific fact, not opinions, and a lot of the facts are there isn't a lot of studies yet to conclude conclusive results on the benefits / negatives of weed. What there has been done though keeps putting weed in a more negative light (for example, it actually being worse for you than alcohol, but the benefit being it's practically impossible to OD on weed). I also live in Washington, and the amount of people being pulled over now for impairment due to weed has multiplied by a grossly significant number since weed has been legalized.

[katrik]

Say no to illegals; say no to companies hiring them.

[Glenzig]

I wonder what the native Americans think about the whole illegal immigrant discussion?

[Eliseus]

I wonder what the native Americans think about the whole illegal immigrant discussion?

Well considering that native Americans decent to the Americans still isn't 100% known, even scientific evidences can only relate a % to asian decent with still no exact details, I feel it would be hard to argue "we were here first" for any of them compared to some kind of European decent.

Let us assume though that we "took it". If immigrants want to bring about some kind of war to try and take US soil, I say go right on ahead.

[katrik]

Let us assume though that we "took it". If immigrants want to bring about some kind of war to try and take US soil, I say go right on ahead.

[Glenzig]

Well considering that native Americans decent to the Americans still isn't 100% known, even scientific evidences can only relate a % to asian decent with still no exact details, I feel it would be hard to argue "we were here first" for any of them compared to some kind of European decent.

Let us assume though that we "took it". If immigrants want to bring about some kind of war to try and take US soil, I say go right on ahead.

So there were no Indians here first?

[Jarnauga]

"say no to illegal immigrants !"

Says the descendants of immigrants :confused:

[Visual]

If we could only work out a deal to trade our mexicans for their mexicans

[radditsu]

"It's the law of the land" when you like it; "stop blindly following laws" when you don't.

I always play chaotic good.

[radditsu]

Plus who the fuck wants to pick tomatoes? My Dad owned a farm and I worked in the fields as a kid. I got an education so I can fuck around on the net all day.

[Rust1d?]

So, here's something we can both agree on, a logical extension of what you said: undocumented immigrants are more likely than documented immigrants/citizens to have undocumented children and to violate immigration laws again. What's not logical is saying that because a man is willing to risk his life and travel for months just to get a job, that he's more likely to be a criminal. The evidence shows that's just not true.

Now for the TLDR part.

You said you didn't know any illegal immigrants. Well, as it happens, I know the most famous one in America, Jose Antonio Vargas. Jose went to the same high school as me, and he was the hardest working person I knew: he slept like 3 hours, was involved in tons of extra curricular activities (I knew him through Speech and Debate; his rendition of The Highwayman was incredible), and got straight A's. He was also incredibly kind, and would do anything for a friend. Since high school he's gotten himself a Pulitzer prize, been on The Colbert Report, and "come out" as an undocumented immigrant.

Jose was brought here when he was just a kid; he had no choice in the matter. He didn't even know his status until he turned 16 and tried to get a driver's license. Now, despite having done Pulitzer-award winning journalism, Jose risks being deported to a country he hasn't been in since he was like 7.

I'm telling you all this because undocumented immigrants are people, and we should have empathy for them. When you don't know anyone of certain group, it's hard to have empathy, but hopefully the next time you start to envision the evil job-stealing, law-breaking, "illegal" immigrant that you've never met but Fox News tells you exists, try to think of Jose. And the many other good people who are undocumented but don't fit Fox News stereotypes.

Look, here is the thing. There are people that want to come into this country to work. I know quite a few programmers from Europe who would do well here. We could be bringing in smart, hard working Europeans (like the ones that came here so long ago) instead of the Indians from India who ruined their own country, smell bad, rape etc. But the Indians are willing to work for much less $$, are worse programmers etc.

You know how much it costs someone to come here legally? Thousands of dollars, legal fees, paperwork, getting stuck with needles etc. It is not fucking easy.

What IS easy is just running across the border with a few sprogs in hand for the "empathy" card.

I get it, some of them ARE hard working, but they are committing a crime. They may be the nicest person on earth, they are still committing a crime.

Why not try and go from the US to Canada by just running across the border and see what happens. Try flying into Moscow and run your way through customs.

[loramin]

instead of the Indians from India who ruined their own country, smell bad, rape etc. But the Indians are willing to work for much less $$, are worse programmers etc.

Wow, bigoted much? I'd love to see your evidence for how people from India are more likely to commit rape, or smell worse than people from other countries. I'll grant the worse programmer thing is somewhat true (their educational system for programming is terrible compared to ours, lots of rote memorization and pointless testing) but even so I have known plenty of good Indian programmers.

I get it, some of them ARE hard working, but they are committing a crime. They may be the nicest person on earth, they are still committing a crime.
So the people who helped the Jews escape Nazi Germany, or the people who helped slaves escape to the North: they were nice people, but they still committed a crime, so they deserve to rot in hell for all eternity right?

Why not try and go from the US to Canada by just running across the border and see what happens.
I don't quite see how that is relevant, but the leader of Anonymous did just that. As have others.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

or smell worse than people from other countries.

'Worse' is subjective. I work in a hospital full of doctors from India the men all have this curry musk about them, the women just reek of death... Since I dislike curry, I'd agree that they do indeed smell worse than people from other countries.

[loramin]

'Worse' is subjective. I work in a hospital full of doctors from India the men all have this curry musk about them, the women just reek of death... Since I dislike curry, I'd agree that they do indeed smell worse than people from other countries.

Ok true, but still if someone said "black people smell worse" that'd be considered bigoted right?

I've worked with plenty of people from India, and they do not all smell like curry. That's the problem with making gross generalizations about people based on their ethnic group: just because you've met two, or ten, or even fifty people of a certain ethnicity doesn't mean that all people of that ethnicity are the same as the people you met.

I feel like an after school special; this shouldn't require explanation in an elf simulator forum.

[iruinedyourday]

BAN THESE PEOPLE

[this user was banned]

annex Mexico; problem solved

[Champion_Standing]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/11/article-2721991-2072344100000578-404_634x422.jpg

[Rust1d?]

Wow, bigoted much? I'd love to see your evidence for how people from India are more likely to commit rape, or smell worse than people from other countries. I'll grant the worse programmer thing is somewhat true (their educational system for programming is terrible compared to ours, lots of rote memorization and pointless testing) but even so I have known plenty of good Indian programmers.


So the people who helped the Jews escape Nazi Germany, or the people who helped slaves escape to the North: they were nice people, but they still committed a crime, so they deserve to rot in hell for all eternity right?


I don't quite see how that is relevant, but the leader of Anonymous did just that. As have others.

I am an equal opportunity racist..that goes for white trash as well. Just like if you hate spiders, you just do not hate the big one or the yellow one, you hate them all.

[Rust1d?]

I am an equal opportunity racist..that goes for white trash as well..rich people...hate them too. Just like if you hate spiders, you just do not hate the big one or the yellow one, you hate them all.

[Rust1d?]

Ok true, but still if someone said "black people smell worse" that'd be considered bigoted right?

I've worked with plenty of people from India, and they do not all smell like curry. That's the problem with making gross generalizations about people based on their ethnic group: just because you've met two, or ten, or even fifty people of a certain ethnicity doesn't mean that all people of that ethnicity are the same as the people you met.

I feel like an after school special; this shouldn't require explanation in an elf simulator forum.

My friend and I would walk around our old office at lunch after smoking and we would shake down vending machines with dangling candy etc.

Sometimes we would go to the IT area and use one of the phones in an empty cube to prank call our co-workers and it was like a punch in the fucking face.

Also, I used to belong to the company gym and would go in the morning. The Indians would smell so bad, everybody complained. They had to pull them aside and tell them to shower or they would be banned from the facility.

It is not like an isolated incident. They fucking reek.

[iruinedyourday]

This mother fucker think's he's like the IRL version of the hound, NEWSFLASH your just some bitch who spends too much time behind closed doors jerking off to pictures of dead bodies.

[Rust1d?]

This mother fucker think's he's like the IRL version of the hound, NEWSFLASH your just some bitch who spends too much time behind closed doors jerking off to pictures of dead bodies.

Watch Game of Thrones much? I guess you aspire to be me then. You just hate truth.

I fap to Asian porn, thanks!

[iruinedyourday]

I dont like you at all

[loramin]

Also, I used to belong to the company gym and would go in the morning. The Indians would smell so bad, everybody complained. They had to pull them aside and tell them to shower or they would be banned from the facility.

It is not like an isolated incident. They fucking reek.

Right, so some specific Indian immigrants that you happened to work with smelled bad. A normal person would logically conclude from that "he has stinky co-workers". However, you've instead drawn the conclusion that "because those people happened to be from India, all Indians everywhere must stink". Which, as I mentioned, is clearly false since I have had non-stinky Indian co-workers.

Perhaps you should stop making gross generalizations about any entire group of people based on your experiences with a few of its members?

[Faron]

Right, so some specific Indian immigrants that you happened to work with smelled bad. A normal person would logically conclude from that "he has stinky co-workers". However, you've instead drawn the conclusion that "because those people happened to be from India, all Indians everywhere must stink". Which, as I mentioned, is clearly false since I have had non-stinky Indian co-workers.

Perhaps you should stop making gross generalizations about any entire group of people based on your experiences with a few of its members?

Did he say that all Indians smell bad, or that all Indians in his gym smell bad?

[iruinedyourday]

Did he say that all Indians smell bad, or that all Indians in his gym smell bad?

he said all

[Faron]

Do you guys really think that when someone gives a personal anecdote about smelly Indians, or even when they say that Indians smell bad that they literally mean that all Indians on Earth, simply because of where they were born, have an inherent smell about them? Do they really mean that, really? Or are they just saying that in their limited encounters with Indians, a large percentage had a smell that was odd. . . Way too sensitive.

[Champion_Standing]

Everyone stinks like shit, everything that comes out of your body is disgusting and smells bad. Especially you fat fucking nerd virgin basement dwelling energy drink swilling chain smoking fucks on p99.

[katrik]

Indians are disgusting

[iruinedyourday]

Do you guys really think that when someone gives a personal anecdote about smelly Indians, or even when they say that Indians smell bad that they literally mean that all Indians on Earth, simply because of where they were born, have an inherent smell about them? Do they really mean that, really? Or are they just saying that in their limited encounters with Indians, a large percentage had a smell that was odd. . . Way too sensitive.

do you really thing rust1d isnt the most racist fuck on these forums? Fuck that way to sensitive.

Fuck racist forum bitches

fuck ya racist forum bitches that like to suck the forum dicks of racist forum bitches.

yall fuckn racist forum fucks.

IM BACK BITCHES FUCK YO RACIST COUCH !

[loramin]

Do you guys really think that when someone gives a personal anecdote about smelly Indians, or even when they say that Indians smell bad that they literally mean that all Indians on Earth, simply because of where they were born, have an inherent smell about them? Do they really mean that, really? Or are they just saying that in their limited encounters with Indians, a large percentage had a smell that was odd. . . Way too sensitive.

Faron, you're a little late to the conversation here: this whole thing has clearly been about gross generalizations based on race from the start.

Here's a quote you seemed to have missed:

We could be bringing in smart, hard working Europeans (like the ones that came here so long ago) instead of the Indians from India who ruined their own country, smell bad, rape etc. But the Indians are willing to work for much less $$, are worse programmers etc.

[iruinedyourday]

disgusting

[Rust1d?]

do you really thing rust1d isnt the most racist fuck on these forums? Fuck that way to sensitive.

Fuck racist forum bitches

fuck ya racist forum bitches that like to suck the forum dicks of racist forum bitches.

yall fuckn racist forum fucks.

IM BACK BITCHES FUCK YO RACIST COUCH !

Wow this kid is mad. Mommy not clean your room today?

[Rust1d?]

I dont like you at all

Naw. You want to be me.

[Portasaurus]

Fuck all you dirty ass whore motherfuckers!!!

Excuse me. I must go take a shower now.

[mtb tripper]

dude what the fuck happened to pingu

[Traxan]

If you vote........You are part of the problem!
This^^

[radditsu]

You literally are what you eat with your smell. Eat ice cream and cookies you fat fucks.

[Rust1d?]

dude what the fuck happened to pingu

No more Pingu :(

[iruinedyourday]

can someone ban this piece of human garbage

[Rust1d?]

can someone ban this piece of human garbage

Can someone ban this liberal trash?

[iruinedyourday]

sick comeback bro

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Can someone ban this libitard trash?
::)
Simply referring to him as a liberal is insulting to rational progressives.

[iruinedyourday]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x54/TrueX-Ray/TNG%20Caption%20This/TNGCaption149d.jpg

[Rust1d?]

sick comeback bro

Slack-jawed faggot.

[rgostic]

You literally are what you eat.

Fixed this for you. There's no reason to add a specifications, it just makes you look dumb. It is a completely literal saying.