The Bard Fix Thread *please sticky*

[xblade724]

This is a compilation of all the overdue changes/fixes/nerfs/bugs (whatever you may call it -- just "not acting as intended" discrepancies) that bards need to bring them back to not only classic, but competitive, fun, and fair. These are not all just benefits, but also nerfs that doesn't reflect how it ever was in classic or current live, such as epic proc. It's been years and none of these have been touched, rendering us bards feeling lonely without a warm-fuzzy feeling. It's a shame that after all this time and all the fixes/new changes to the server rules that brought me back that this still hasn't even been touched -- we are small in population, but like fat people, we need love too: I will cross out each one out as fixed with an update to WHAT changes were made, and update as people add comments and replies:


KNOCKBACK AMOUNT 75% LESS THAN NORMAL: Brusco's Boastful Bellow (and other knockbacks, not just bards) -- the knockback is insigificant compared to what it should/used to be, and does not interrupt spells as guaranteed as it should as well. The knockback amount also applies to other spells, such as a few wizard spells and druid wind spells

CHARM DURATION TOO SHORT: 3 ticks is useless -- please fix it to the correct duration

EPIC STUN TOO LONG: Too long duration, nerf it

SELOS SHOULD BREAK ROOT/SNARE (or at LEAST have % chance to, as offered compromise): Does not break root or snare. Bards are 100% useless if rooted or snared, quite literally. Also prevents trolls when swarm kiting, running along and just rooting/snaring before running off

RESISTS STILL BROKEN (which is another reason to fix Selo's): This probably applies to everyone, but having 140+ MR and snares etc still land often, what ??

CHANTS DAMAGE TOO LOW: -33% here, while this was not on live. We are already useless in PvP compared to other classes, our melee doesn't do anything, and damage is low compared to other classes, cmon.

MEM DISPEL PROBLEM: quoted below, not quite sure what this means.. I'll update this if someone can clarify

BARD MELEE TOO TONED DOWN: I'm not sure of the mechanics behind this, but quoted below. Not sure if this is confirmed issue or a theory. I mean, I can see it, I'm sort of useless, but wasn't sure if it was just bards in general with melee. I'll update later.

Psalm of Purity should cure poison/disease -- lucy shows it removes counters~


REFERENCES/RELATED:

If they epic'd sure, if they aren't I don't know what to tell ya.

I mean sure here they're chants land but they still minus 33% dmg which they weren't on live, mem dispel problem solved.(unless ya wanna blow 80 pumices)

Selo's doesn't break root or snare like it did on live, so one root they dead.

They can't really charm kite stuff into ya because it lasts 3 ticks lol.

All they got is brusco's bombastic bellows, which without epic barely lands and sucks but with epic can last 8+ secs.

Denon's which lands alot but has very small range

Epic'd they one of the nastiest classes on the server without it they just gnats with speed.

if staff fixes anything about bard let it be the snare that lands even when u have 140+ MR

epic brusco stun the worst lol 12 second stun in pvp, shit you can remove snare, how you think Nihilum spammed so many kills lol run as group epic bard stun guaranteed kill.

99% of my deaths by Nihilum were due to epic brusco'ing me and then the rest blowing every disc they had, makes t-staff look like a joke.

Well the true reason everyone says bards op is because what really happens is a 60 bard runs in with brusco's stuns ya for 10 sec's and the group kills ya. That's why everyone is always saying fucken OP bards.

But it really does come down to the bard's epic amplifying stun duration and annoying ass highsun.

if staff fixes anything about bard let it be the snare that lands even when u have 140+ MR

It [Brusco's Boastful Bellow] has a knockback function still, just very small compared to live. Paired with melee its enough to interrupt a cast a good amount of the time.

The coding on Knockbacks in general is wrong here. Set to about 25% the effectiveness of live. Also seems to have been programmed to let every player auto regain(even melee without channeling lmfao) if the player reaches the end of his cast. So if the player is about 75% done with the cast, they always regain.

Bard's do suck until 55+ sure they are impossible to kill pretty much, but they are also the worst at putting someone down. All you can do is chant kite people until you get denon's. Even there charm is busted lasts 3 ticks when it should last a full minute.

Brusco's helps but you really can't start owning face with a bard till lvl 59.

Bard's only overpowered here because of epic it amplifies there stuns which it shouldn't.

You may as well dot kite til level 59 poison stun.
Also bard melee is way toned down here. Not saying there not great for pvp, but with epic, hitting for 13s is laughable.

+8/30
Both kunark and velious-era spdats show Psalm of Vitality as removing 1 disease counter and Psalm of Purity removing 1 poison counter.
Quote:
Psalm of Vitality

Increase Disease Resist from 39 (L29) to 70 (L60)
Removing 1 Disease counters
Increase Armor Class (AC) from 4 (L29) to 6 (L60)
Classes: Brd (L29)
Area Effect Range: 50 feet
Skill: Singing
Allowable Targets: Full Group
Resistance Check: None
Spell Duration: Unknown
Duration Formula: 5
Casting Time: 3.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 12.0 seconds
Spell cast on you: You feel protected from disease.
Spell fades: Your aura fades.
Quote:
Psalm of Purity

Increase Poison Resist from 47 (L37) to 70 (L60)
Removing 1 Poison counters
Increase Armor Class (AC) from 4 (L37) to 6 (L60)
Classes: Brd (L37)
Area Effect Range: 45 feet
Skill: Singing
Allowable Targets: Full Group
Resistance Check: None
Spell Duration: Unknown
Duration Formula: 5
Casting Time: 3.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 12.0 seconds
Spell cast on you: You feel protected from poison.
Spell fades: Your aura fades.

[Tacitus]

Wrong place for this.............................

[xblade724]

Wrong place for this.............................

Eh? Where is the right place? Technical discussion is mostly for general client issues that the user can fix themselves, not pvp-specific gameplay mechanics that are beyond user control (admins/devs). It's not a rant or flame, it's literally unfixed bugs. It's not a trading post. It's not a guild post. It doesn't relate to PvE, it's specific to pvp discussion: This is the correct area. ~

[Eslade]

We need variance also.

[xblade724]

We need variance also.

Hmm, can you be more specific?

[Tacitus]

Eh? Where is the right place? Technical discussion is mostly for general client issues that the user can fix themselves, not pvp-specific gameplay mechanics that are beyond user control (admins/devs). It's not a rant or flame, it's literally unfixed bugs. It's not a trading post. It's not a guild post. It doesn't relate to PvE, it's specific to pvp discussion: This is the correct area. ~
Uhhh..Pvp Bugs? NOT SURE IF SERIOUS
http://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

[xblade724]

oh, odd, i didn't see that section -- it wasn't under "PvP Community", so didn't see it. Anyway, admin can move it if s/he wishes~

[Super Hater]

This is a compilation of all the overdue changes/fixes/nerfs/bugs (whatever you may call it -- just "not acting as intended" discrepancies) that bards need to bring them back to not only classic, but competitive, fun, and fair. These are not all just benefits, but also nerfs that doesn't reflect how it ever was in classic or current live, such as epic proc. It's been years and none of these have been touched, rendering us bards feeling lonely without a warm-fuzzy feeling. It's a shame that after all this time and all the fixes/new changes to the server rules that brought me back that this still hasn't even been touched -- we are small in population, but like fat people, we need love too: I will cross out each one out as fixed with an update to WHAT changes were made, and update as people add comments and replies:


KNOCKBACK AMOUNT 75% LESS THAN NORMAL: Brusco's Boastful Bellow (and other knockbacks, not just bards) -- the knockback is insigificant compared to what it should/used to be, and does not interrupt spells as guaranteed as it should as well. The knockback amount also applies to other spells, such as a few wizard spells and druid wind spells

CHARM DURATION TOO SHORT: 3 ticks is useless -- please fix it to the correct duration

EPIC STUN TOO LONG: Too long duration, nerf it

SELOS SHOULD BREAK ROOT/SNARE (or at LEAST have % chance to, as offered compromise): Does not break root or snare. Bards are 100% useless if rooted or snared, quite literally. Also prevents trolls when swarm kiting, running along and just rooting/snaring before running off

RESISTS STILL BROKEN (which is another reason to fix Selo's): This probably applies to everyone, but having 140+ MR and snares etc still land often, what ??

CHANTS DAMAGE TOO LOW: -33% here, while this was not on live. We are already useless in PvP compared to other classes, our melee doesn't do anything, and damage is low compared to other classes, cmon.

MEM DISPEL PROBLEM: quoted below, not quite sure what this means.. I'll update this if someone can clarify

BARD MELEE TOO TONED DOWN: I'm not sure of the mechanics behind this, but quoted below. Not sure if this is confirmed issue or a theory. I mean, I can see it, I'm sort of useless, but wasn't sure if it was just bards in general with melee. I'll update later.

(Added 8/30) l29:Psalm of Vitality , l37:Psalm of Purity should cure poison/disease: Please fix~


REFERENCES/RELATED:






Nice project.












8/30:


8/30

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by Tune View Post
Dec 00'

https://web.archive.org/web/20001207...ns.asp?Id=1018

BROKEN STILL??, By Nadira andante

This song, like its disease counterpart, is supposed to also help cure poisons. Small chance, and it has a neat message about a mystical force cureing your affliction. Its counterpart doesn't work from what I've seen, on group mates or on yourself and I bet the poison one also doesn't cure despite saying that it does. broken since release imo.

IT DOES CURE, By Renu

This song does cure poison. It's just that some poisons take multiple counters to cure (multiple cure tics).


https://web.archive.org/web/20001201...ns.asp?Id=1010

CURE DISEASE COMPONENT, By Gossipmonger

Apparently, according to a post I read from Geoffrey Zatkin (sp?) this song has a (small) chance of removing disease faster than would ordinarily happen.... Basically a cure disease. I have also seen a report that said it took almost half as long as the disease lasts before it removed the disease, for one bard. I have yet to get the song, so I have no confirmation.

feb 01'

https://web.archive.org/web/20010208...ngs/Song37.htm

ffect: Increase poison resistance and AC, also has a chance each round to cure poison.

Analysis by Rokenn Swiftsong, Karana server

Comments: Increase party poison resistance and AC. If the cure poison portion fires off you will lose the resist buff till the next pulse of the song.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010208...ngs/Song29.htm

Effect: Increases Disease resistance and AC, also has a chance to cure disease each pulse.

Analysis by Rokenn Swiftsong, Karana server



Comments: Increase resistance to disease and gives a small AC increase. If the cure disease portion fires off you will lose the resist buff till the next pulse of the song.

Also

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhist...16&source=Live

According to Lucy, on 12/12/02 this was changed from Disease Resist/Disease Cure to Disease Resist/Damage Shield... same happened with Psalm of Purity. Looks like our first disease/poison resists come at lvl 45, then?

2002-12-12 11:18 Added Slot 1: Increase Damage Shield by 8 (L37) to 14 (L65)
2002-12-12 11:18 Changed Slot 2 from "Decrease Poison Counter by 8 (L37) to 14 (L65)" to "Increase Poison Resist by 47 (L37) to 75 (L65)"
2002-12-12 11:18 Changed Slot 5 from "Increase Poison Resist by 47 (L37) to 75 (L65)" to "Stacking: Block new spell if slot 4 is effect 'AC' and < 100"
2002-12-12 11:18 Changed Resist from Unresistable to Poison
2002-09-26 11:10 Changed AE Range from 45 to 50
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Slot 2 from "Decrease Poison Counter by 8 (L37) to 13 (L60)" to "Decrease Poison Counter by 8 (L37) to 14 (L65)"
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Slot 4 from "Increase AC by 4 (L37) to 6 (L60)" to "Increase AC by 4 (L37) to 6 (L65)"
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Slot 5 from "Increase Poison Resist by 47 (L37) to 70 (L60)" to "Increase Poison Resist by 47 (L37) to 75 (L65)"
2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Deletable from 0 to 1
2002-06-12 12:27 Changed Unknown130 from 0 to 100
2002-06-12 12:27 Changed SpellIcon from to
2002-06-05 11:20 Changed SpellIcon from to
2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

Never pay any attention to what Tune says because it's either lies or idiocy, if you notice the poison counter changes didn't go into effect till POP, so it has no bearing on Red Kunark era.

And to be honest i think he might have just blatantly made that up as I see no evidence of it in Lucy, wouldn't be the first time Tune got caught for bold face lying.

[sofa king]

why the fuck would this get sticked in general chat. PVP BUGS WORKS

[Technique]

Never pay any attention to what Tune says because it's either lies or idiocy, if you notice the poison counter changes didn't go into effect till POP, so it has no bearing on Red Kunark era.

And to be honest i think he might have just blatantly made that up as I see no evidence of it in Lucy, wouldn't be the first time Tune got caught for bold face lying.Lies or idiocy describes the content of possibly every post you've ever made, this one included.

Both kunark and velious-era spdats show Psalm of Vitality as removing 1 disease counter and Psalm of Purity removing 1 poison counter.

Psalm of Vitality

Increase Disease Resist from 39 (L29) to 70 (L60)
Removing 1 Disease counters
Increase Armor Class (AC) from 4 (L29) to 6 (L60)
Classes: Brd (L29)
Area Effect Range: 50 feet
Skill: Singing
Allowable Targets: Full Group
Resistance Check: None
Spell Duration: Unknown
Duration Formula: 5
Casting Time: 3.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 12.0 seconds
Spell cast on you: You feel protected from disease.
Spell fades: Your aura fades.

Psalm of Purity

Increase Poison Resist from 47 (L37) to 70 (L60)
Removing 1 Poison counters
Increase Armor Class (AC) from 4 (L37) to 6 (L60)
Classes: Brd (L37)
Area Effect Range: 45 feet
Skill: Singing
Allowable Targets: Full Group
Resistance Check: None
Spell Duration: Unknown
Duration Formula: 5
Casting Time: 3.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 12.0 seconds
Spell cast on you: You feel protected from poison.
Spell fades: Your aura fades.

[Swyft]

Lies or idiocy describes the content of possibly every post you've ever made, this one included.

Both kunark and velious-era spdats show Psalm of Vitality as removing 1 disease counter and Psalm of Purity removing 1 poison counter.

everything i saw for lucy said 02

[xblade724]

why the fuck would this get sticked in general chat. PVP BUGS WORKS

I want this stickied in the PvP bugs* area rather, i didn't realize there was a section for that since it wasn't under pvp header (sorry mates)~ hoping an admin can move this for me

[Silent]

Yaw I love when my 162MR druid gets hit by song of twilight at 52 every 1-2 casts.

[xblade724]

Yaw I love when my 162MR druid gets hit by song of twilight at 52 every 1-2 casts.

Oh yea, we can mez you for 1-2 seconds, then as long as we're snared, you have 10 minutes to destroy us between casts, or however rediculously long ensnare lasts for. No whining, bards die vs druids. You know that the song itself lowers MR too right? ~

Bards will annoy you, but bards will die in the end because of root/ensnare completely obliterating bards ability to do anything at all

[Colgate]

root/snare has a 2% chance to land at 125+ mr

[Potus]

Druids and Wizards really have no business complaining about PvP bugs.

It's like white Americans claiming they're the victims of racism.

[iiNGloriouS]

The fix I am most curious about is the bard charm. Do we ever expect this to be fixed? I personally would love the living hell out of this change.

[Wrench]

everything i saw for lucy said 02

orly? i wonder when the database for lucy starts...

[Haynar]

The fix I am most curious about is the bard charm. Do we ever expect this to be fixed? I personally would love the living hell out of this change.
Sure I will fix it. Let me go over the details of the needed changes......

[Wrench]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010420151136/http://www.eqdiva.com/songs.asp?song=41

[Daldaen]

CHARM DURATION TOO SHORT: 3 ticks is useless -- please fix it to the correct duration


Bard Charm (http://web.archive.org/web/20010420151136/http://www.eqdiva.com/songs.asp?song=41)

Description: Charms target up to 18 seconds. Lowers target's magic resistance. This is the upgrade to Solon's Song of the Sirens. Only works on mobs below level 55.

It is lasting correct duration. Quoting people from P99 as references is pretty useless.

[iiNGloriouS]

Hmmm, then at what point was the minute charm added/changed?

[Haynar]

What is making it useless? If you sing just that song, is it being resisted a ton? There are always issues for bard songs and the way resist checks are often applied every pulse. That can be adjusted to make it a bit more forgiving.

H

[Daldaen]

Hmmm, then at what point was the minute charm added/changed?

2002-09-04 11:33 Changed Durationtext from 3 ticks to 1 min

Thats post-Luclin. Not classic.

The charm song works just fine on this server. Resists and breaks as it should.

[iiNGloriouS]

What is making it useless? If you sing just that song, is it being resisted a ton? There are always issues for bard songs and the way resist checks are often applied every pulse. That can be adjusted to make it a bit more forgiving.

H

I have only noticed it being really bad with certain mobs or just during a time of day. Other day was charming Allie in OoT and took 7-8 tries just to get a charm to stick for more than 1 second. But as I recall he is pretty MR resistant.

I swore the 1 minute charm was pre-luclin. My bad.

Either way, I just don't like medding up for 20 hours, that is my only complaint but it is classic. And I'll deal with it.

Appreciate the sources and such as well as the speedy reply Hayboss.

[xblade724]

What is making it useless? If you sing just that song, is it being resisted a ton? There are always issues for bard songs and the way resist checks are often applied every pulse. That can be adjusted to make it a bit more forgiving.

H

Thanks for the reply man --

It just breaks incredibly fast.

As for some of the other posts, some definitely need to be verified before fixed, a lot are just starting points to look into.

If you have any confirmations of necessary changes or confirmation of items 100% AS INTENDED, let me know so I can mark as confirmed pending // or confirmed 'as intended' (if a bug submission was, say, Luclin++ etc).

For 100% sure, bellow (knockback amount) and selo's (root/snare break; or since this a modernized version of classic, a compromise of a CHANCE of root/snare break?) need fixes, the others I got from other people/bug posts.

If charm isn't as forgiving as it should be and it'll be fixed TY!! If it's the way it should be, np, just let me know when you have extra time so I can update OP :) cheers mate

[Daldaen]

The one that should be fixed is selos removing root or snare. But it had to be specific circumstances. Namely:

You had to already have selos buff up
Selos song had to already be active

I don't believe it functioned if you had selos song up and then you started casting selos when you got rooted. The song had to already be active ( IE no cast bar), and the next pulse would overwrite snare or root.

Once the Velious change comes in 1 month after Velious that exploit is removed and selos no longer removes snare or root.

One thing I would like to look into more is whether J-boots or SoW should be stacking with selos, because they currently do. (Stacking in the buffs so that if you lose selos you still have a backup Runspeed on... Not that they were additive). Cause after that Velious fix they for sure did not stack. That's a pretty big helper in getting away from a dangerous situation if you have a backup 30-50% Runspeed buff currently.

[xblade724]

The one that should be fixed is selos removing root or snare. But it had to be specific circumstances. Namely:

You had to already have selos buff up
Selos song had to already be active

I don't believe it functioned if you had selos song up and then you started casting selos when you got rooted. The song had to already be active ( IE no cast bar), and the next pulse would overwrite snare or root.

Once the Velious change comes in 1 month after Velious that exploit is removed and selos no longer removes snare or root.

One thing I would like to look into more is whether J-boots or SoW should be stacking with selos, because they currently do. (Stacking in the buffs so that if you lose selos you still have a backup Runspeed on... Not that they were additive). Cause after that Velious fix they for sure did not stack. That's a pretty big helper in getting away from a dangerous situation if you have a backup 30-50% Runspeed buff currently.

* Yea after velious I think they fixed this, BUT oh my god we've been asking for this since the dawn of Red server to be fixed, should really just give it to us to make up for not having this in the vanilla + kunark -- selos has to ALREADY be active anyway, and bards are as useless as warriors snared. It's still challenging and not cheap if we have to keep selos active for this to work. I alone must have posted at least 20 posts begging for fixes for both selos and bellow :(

* "After the velious fix for sure they did not stack" you have this BACKWARDS, my friend.. originally, speed song would REMOVE everything and replace it with.. just speed song (or greater buff, example, Spirit of Cheetah, druids). Once speed song or spirit of cheetah is gone, you are left useless. Although it currently isn't classic, I'm fairly confident this falls within the "modernized" classic schema (like tells queuing while zoning -- this just makes sense and benefits everyone equally). If you want to TRULY make it classic, remove this, but people will be very pissy because it really doesn't help anyone, only pisses people off :P I vote don't touch this since it isn't a balance thing (more like a "here to annoy you" thing), but hey

[Daldaen]

I seem to recall Selos not removing anything since it's base value (level 5 with no mod) is lower than all other Runspeed buffs.

However once it is active, you could not overwrite Selos with SoW or anything else. As a Druid you would have to ask the bard to stop singing selos otherwise your Pack Spirit / Group Wolf Form and later Flight of Eagles would just bounce.

It not being classic currently benefits both PvP and PvE bards unfairly. You should run into trouble if you allow selos to drop or be dispelled. Having your JBoots or SoW potion/sword covered by 12 other buffs to prevent dispels isn't classic and that's a safety net that shouldn't be in. Bards are quite powerful even without this unclassic feature.

[xblade724]

Hi devs -- any updates to this? Is anything being worked on, confirmed pending change, or confirmed NOT a bug/pending fix?

Thanks guys. Bards have been trying to get a fix for quite a long time, so I'd really appreciate some love to the bards.

[Mac Drettj]

do you have anything more than memory and p99 forum posts as evidence?

thanks

[xblade724]

do you have anything more than memory and p99 forum posts as evidence?

thanks

Yea lol tons, must have been 50 threads about the selos one alone. A lot of the quotes are also pulled from the database timestamped anyway, want me to necro bump all the threads?

[Daldaen]

No... Just quote directly from the source. (2000-2001ish quotes/websites)

And edit your original post to remove the incorrect information about Bard Charm.

[Haynar]

I usually research stuff independently. If your post has a lot of info that I cannot verify, then I move on to something else.

Current status? Not even looking at this. Only opened to see what the bumps were about.

H

[Nirgon]

How bout bard stacking? IE: bard double tash

[mischief419]

(bah wrong account)

[xblade724]

I usually research stuff independently. If your post has a lot of info that I cannot verify, then I move on to something else.

Current status? Not even looking at this. Only opened to see what the bumps were about.

H

Over the past few years, you want to know how many "independent" posts with backed info I've posted over the years that were ignored? Shall I necro bump them all?

How about that root removal if bard selos was already active: I can necro bump a good 50 threads of mine for that alone? I'll give you a hint, my post count is over 500, and probably 75% is trying to get bards fixed.

[Haynar]

Not looking at Bards currently.

Thats the status.

H

[mischief419]

Not looking at Bards currently.

Thats the status.

H

No worries what's an extra several years. Not like anyone's expecting anyone to actually give a damn about a class the devs don't play. Thanks guy.

[Daldaen]

Over the past few years, you want to know how many "independent" posts with backed info I've posted over the years that were ignored? Shall I necro bump them all?

How about that root removal if bard selos was already active: I can necro bump a good 50 threads of mine for that alone? I'll give you a hint, my post count is over 500, and probably 75% is trying to get bards fixed.

You still haven't removed charm from your OP.

Which I proved to you was 3tick duration during Kunark and Velious.

[Haynar]

You still haven't removed charm from your OP.

Which I proved to you was 3tick duration during Kunark and Velious.
Some of the issues with OP is its not clear what the issue is on some of the issues.

Adding color, bold, makes it hard to read.

Make a list like this:

1. Bard -MR spell (give example, include spell id is a +) does not stack with tash.

Then a breif summary why it should. And a link or 2 to reference material. Any posts on p99, quotes from p99, or links to other threads on p99, are not good references.

It also brings up other questions. Does it stack with malo line too?

Short. Concise. A few legacy references. Referencing a post from 2002+ is crap.

If the issue is not totally clear, with what the fix should be too, I wont waste my time. There are plenty of issues that are clear.

H

[Nirgon]

Give Haynar what he asks for and he'll get to fixing it. The get to fixing it part is where you wait patiently.

[derpcake]

If the issue is not totally clear, with what the fix should be too, I wont waste my time. There are plenty of issues that are clear.

H

Having played a bard on blue, I just wonder about one thing, its kind of major.

On EQlive, when you pull multiple mobs on the same faction, you can charm one, send it into the pack, and all mobs will assist your pets target, on the pet.

On p1999 only the pets target will attack the pet, the other mobs chase the bard. It seems they either don't assist, or agro gained from proximity agro here is a lot higher then on eqlive?

By EQlive I mean 2003ish or so. Pretty sure swarm kiting has been around forever though.

[Daldaen]

They sort of swarm on this server. If you charm a tiger in OT and send it on a cockatrice, and swing back around and drop your train on your tiger. The other cockatrice will break off and attack. But I've found it requires that second swinging around.

The bard Tash thing is even more generic than that Haynar. Basically it's like this:

ANY buff, or Debuff cast by a bard. Will stack with a similar or even identical buff or debuff cast by a non-bard. Examples:

Enchanter's Tashanian (57 single tash) should stack with a bard who Procs his Orb of Tishan (which is the enchanter level 44 tash spell).

Normally those two spells don't stack, because they are the same line of spell and slot of debuff. However a bard wielding the weapon and procing it will allow it to stack due to bards being coded stupidly.

Same deal with a Lava Diamond. Magician/Druid DSes don't stack. However a bard can click a Lava Diamond (it's summoned by a Clicky staff from Veeshan's Peak that Mages can use) and stack it on top of a magician or druid DS. However if anyone else tried to right click the diamond and cast it on someone with a Max level DS it would bounce and not stack. Or bards with Blazing Vambraces could click those and stack Shield of Flames on top of a druids Shield of Blades.

[Haynar]

They sort of swarm on this server. If you charm a tiger in OT and send it on a cockatrice, and swing back around and drop your train on your tiger. The other cockatrice will break off and attack. But I've found it requires that second swinging around.

The bard Tash thing is even more generic than that Haynar. Basically it's like this:

ANY buff, or Debuff cast by a bard. Will stack with a similar or even identical buff or debuff cast by a non-bard. Examples:

Enchanter's Tashanian (57 single tash) should stack with a bard who Procs his Orb of Tishan (which is the enchanter level 44 tash spell).

Normally those two spells don't stack, because they are the same line of spell and slot of debuff. However a bard wielding the weapon and procing it will allow it to stack due to bards being coded stupidly.

Same deal with a Lava Diamond. Magician/Druid DSes don't stack. However a bard can click a Lava Diamond (it's summoned by a Clicky staff from Veeshan's Peak that Mages can use) and stack it on top of a magician or druid DS. However if anyone else tried to right click the diamond and cast it on someone with a Max level DS it would bounce and not stack. Or bards with Blazing Vambraces could click those and stack Shield of Flames on top of a druids Shield of Blades.
Sounds like it needs to key off the casters class (ie Bard or not Bard) to determine stackability. Will play with it.

H

Can try that. Other stuff has gotten too complicated

[Haynar]

It really is going to depend on what the client allows too, when its buffs that show on client.

I would need to track what class cast buffs through zoning. Another pita.