Guildwar 2.0

[Rogean]

Guildwar System.

First off, This is a proposal. I want to get opinions on the system. I won't spend the time implimenting this if theres not a decent amount of people that would like to use it. I also don't think that a 'vanilla' /guildwar command would really work out either, so this is why I've come up with these mechanics.

Initiation
A guild leader will target any member of another guild and type /guildwar. That guild's officers and leader will get a notice notifying them of the proposed guildwar. Once a /guildwar offer is made, it will stay until either accepted or declined by the second guild, or withdrawn by the first guild.

A guild may decline or withdraw a Guildwar offer by targetting any member of the other guild and typing /guildpeace.

Warring
Once a guildwar has been accepted, all members of each guild will immedietely see the opposite guild as PvP Enabled (Red Name) Players, and may attack them.

Any offensive action done between two opposing players will set a 5 minute flag on both players that prevents them from being affected by benificial buffs from anyone outside their guild.

Death
Upon dying to an opposing warring guild's member, you will be exempted from any guildwar participation (including assisting fellow guildmembers with the 5 minute flag). This exemption will be removed exactly 1 minute after a loot session on any of your own corpses concludes (When you "stand up" from the corpse), or 10 minutes, whichever comes last.

Guildremoval
/Guildremoving yourself will not prevent you from participating in a guildwar fight until you zone.

Guildinvites
You must wait 15 minutes after joining a guild in a guildwar before being able to participate.

Guildpeace
A guildwar must last a minimum of 24 hours before being ended. To end a guildwar, either guild's leader can target an opposing guild's member and type /guildpeace. The guildwar will then end 1 hour after the guildpeace command is executed.

Rewards/Incentives
I'm taking suggestions on what to do for incentives to participate in PvP. There will never be any coin or loot rewards. I've been thinking of a leaderboard/point/score system with rankings on the website, but I'm looking for more ideas. Obviously any system like this would require checks in place to prevent people from benefiting off killing friends/alts.

[Tork]

Back in on Nameless, we (LoS) tried repeatedly to get other guilds to accept - one of the TW guilds came close after we had one of our TWs (accidentally) mistranslate the pop up box, but sadly ELJediCat didn't click Accept.

I'd like to have seen an actual guildwar, to be honest.

I think it's an awesome idea, in that it makes the PvP guys happy (they can form up ad hoc or standing guilds just for the purpose), and it keeps those not interested out of it.

[Shrubwise]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=333&stc=1&d=1283483098

[jyaku]

question, if there is a guild war is it permanent till both do /guildpeace or is it only for a limited time?

[Rogean]

question, if there is a guild war is it permanent till both do /guildpeace or is it only for a limited time?

Permanent until "one" guild leader does /guildpeace, then it will end 1 hour later.

[oldhead]

Guildwar System.

First off, This is a proposal. I want to get opinions on the system. I won't spend the time implimenting this if theres not a decent amount of people that would like to use it. I also don't think that a 'vanilla' /guildwar command would really work out either, so this is why I've come up with these mechanics.

Initiation
A guild leader will target any member of another guild and type /guildwar. That guild's officers and leader will get a notice notifying them of the proposed guildwar. Once a /guildwar offer is made, it will stay until either accepted or declined by the second guild, or withdrawn by the first guild.

A guild officer may decline or withdraw a Guildwar offer by targetting any member of the other guild and typing /guildpeace.

Warring
Once a guildwar has been accepted, all members of each guild will immedietely see the opposite guild as PvP Enabled (Red Name) Players, and may attack them.

Any offensive action done between two opposing players will set a 30 minute flag on both players that prevents them from being affected by benificial buffs from anyone outside their guild.

Death
Upon dying to an opposing warring guild's member, you will be exempted from any guildwar participation (including assisting fellow guildmembers with the 30 minute flag). This exemption will be removed exactly 1 minute after a loot session on any of your own corpses concludes (When you "stand up" from the corpse), or 10 minutes, whichever comes last.

Guildremoval
/Guildremoving yourself will not prevent you from participating in a guildwar fight until you zone.

Guildinvites
You must wait 24 hours after joining a guild in a guildwar before being able to participate.

Guildpeace
A guildwar must last a minimum of 24 hours before being ended. To end a guildwar, either guild's leader can target an opposing guild's member and type /guildpeace. The guildwar will then end 1 hour after the guildpeace command is executed.

Rewards/Incentives
I'm taking suggestions on what to do for incentives to participate in PvP. There will never be any coin or loot rewards. I've been thinking of a leaderboard/point/score system with rankings on the website, but I'm looking for more ideas. Obviously any system like this would require checks in place to prevent people from benefiting off killing friends/alts.

Couple minor changes in red i think would be better.

For rewards... temporary titles for the guilds that "win" perhaps. Maybe a title that lasts for a week.

Great way to solve spawn disputes.

I dont like EQ pvp tho and wouldnt want my guild warring but I think this would be neat to implement. Although I'd vote no if it meant taking your focus off fixing the current issues with the game (like lag-trade-poof) for example. Or if it kept you from working on Kunark.

My vote would be I dont like pvp but i like this system...only if it doesnt take away from the progress of the server.

[PhelanKA]

question, if there is a guild war is it permanent till both do /guildpeace or is it only for a limited time?

In Classic I believe it lasted for two weeks. The command was actually available on RZ as well because it broadened the restrictions to remove (or reduce. can't remember which) level barriers on targets.

[Itchybottom]

Guildwar is great. These mechanics however, if they aren't being made classic, I find to be a little too easy for a real guild war. What's a guild war worth without being able to grief your enemy?


Any offensive action done between two opposing players will set a 5 minute flag on both players that prevents them from being affected by benificial buffs from anyone outside their guild.


Sounds alright, but if a leader accepts a guild war, it should be a dead lock until there is a victor, time is up or an arrangement made to form a peace. Certainly does away with the out of range healer gripe I had on Rallos. Maybe it'd be better suited to temporarily flag someone PVP free for all until they go talk to the Priest of Order in Qeynos, if they assist in a guild war [outside said guilds], since they'd be committing an act of war. That way either guild could deal with the interference as they saw fit, and other players could act as their own police force by going to your local Priest of Discord and popping the guy/gal that caused an unbalance.


Death
Upon dying to an opposing warring guild's member, you will be exempted from any guildwar participation (including assisting fellow guildmembers with the 5 minute flag). This exemption will be removed exactly 1 minute after a loot session on any of your own corpses concludes (When you "stand up" from the corpse), or 10 minutes, whichever comes last.


Too bluebie. PVP is PVP, hand holding shouldn't be happening since both sides are consenting.


Guildremoval
/Guildremoving yourself will not prevent you from participating in a guildwar fight until you zone.


Going to be hilarious with guerilla warfare groups from a guild removing themselves for sneak attacks.


Guildinvites
You must wait 15 minutes after joining a guild in a guildwar before being able to participate.


Seems too bluebie again. It's war. You should be able to hire conscripts, who can immediately reinforce your ranks and hold a zone.


Rewards/Incentives
I'm taking suggestions on what to do for incentives to participate in PvP. There will never be any coin or loot rewards. I've been thinking of a leaderboard/point/score system with rankings on the website, but I'm looking for more ideas. Obviously any system like this would require checks in place to prevent people from benefiting off killing friends/alts.


The fact that you just shut down a bunch of your enemy isn't reward enough? We do have Rants and Flames that people can post screenshots and strut around about their latest e-penis victory, afterall. Leaderboards and ladders are kind of empty without actually fixing resists, melee damage, and mitigation more live-like to make the points they've earned at least be fair, and not some game bug advantage.

[jyaku]

another question, would it be possible to make it that, if a player is killed by a player they will drop a specific item. kinda like ears from diablo 2, only in the case of our server, i believe that "poopsock" should be the item and can be turned into a special quest NPC for random cosmetic items, mainly for people to wear in EC that weigh nothing

[Lazortag]

another question, would it be possible to make it that, if a player is killed by a player they will drop a specific item. kinda like ears from diablo 2, only in the case of our server, i believe that "poopsock" should be the item and can be turned into a special quest NPC for random cosmetic items, mainly for people to wear in EC that weigh nothing

lol yea!!! maybe they could be exchanged for mounts!!! or armor dyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jyaku]

random illusion pots. mounts or armor dyes would be pointless sence they will not exist on this server

[Dukat]

I like it but somehow I'm not sure there will be many guild wars going on. It would be nice if there was some way to participate without having to actually be in a guild at war. Theres kind of a barrier for people who would like to PVP without putting their whole guild at risk.

As for PVP rewards I think the best reward would just be respect, and a server wide message stating who killed who

[yt2005]

What stops a player from inviting an unsuspecting newbie to their small guild, then /guildwar-ing and having the newbie ganked "for the lulz"?

[jyaku]

Dukat, i'm sure there would be strict PVP guilds made for just this. also the server wide message's would become a wall of text with the way i see high level players chomping at the bit for PVP. having played on AO and there being announcments as to who killed who if you where in a guild, when 2 guilds fought you it was insane the amount of text you would get.

also suggestion for a bit of a change, could you make it where you can't recive help/buffs from anybody except for those in your group. i'm sure some people would want to do 6v6 battles where there are support characters IE clerics. i know that could cause issues with people grouping with a cleric at all times and keeping him out of sight till they enter battle.

[nalkin]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3459/warft.png

Bout time. OFFER STILL STANDS. Bring it nubs.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7949

[Harrison]

Back in on Nameless, we (LoS) tried repeatedly to get other guilds to accept - one of the TW guilds came close after we had one of our TWs (accidentally) mistranslate the pop up box, but sadly ELJediCat didn't click Accept.

I'd like to have seen an actual guildwar, to be honest.

I think it's an awesome idea, in that it makes the PvP guys happy (they can form up ad hoc or standing guilds just for the purpose), and it keeps those not interested out of it.

HOLY SHIT ELJEDICAT

That name brings back so many memories la~

Fucking TW...made me hate Asians in games for years. They were a fucking PLAGUE on our server.

[Tseng]

lol yea!!! maybe they could be exchanged for mounts!!! or armor dyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND GLOWING NAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with the sentiment that people should have to wait 24 hours after joining a warring guild to join in on the PvP, would prevent rampant guild-hopping.

[Sorn]

The winners ought to be awarded a useless No Drop item called 'Ill-Gotten Gain' ('Blood-stained Booty'?). The losers can get a No Drop Badge of Shame, -80 CHA.

I might be remembering incorrectly, but doesn't /anon hide guild tags, too? How would that work in a guild war?

[Tseng]

The winners ought to be awarded a useless No Drop item called 'Ill-Gotten Gain' ('Blood-stained Booty'?). The losers can get a No Drop Badge of Shame, -80 CHA.

I might be remembering incorrectly, but doesn't /anon hide guild tags, too? How would that work in a guild war?

I suppose they would just appear red to you.

[Sorn]

I suppose they would just appear red to you.

Might be easy to confuse them with a regular PvP player, in that case.

[Dukat]

Dukat, i'm sure there would be strict PVP guilds made for just this. also the server wide message's would become a wall of text with the way i see high level players chomping at the bit for PVP. having played on AO and there being announcments as to who killed who if you where in a guild, when 2 guilds fought you it was insane the amount of text you would get.

Hmmm you're right on both points. I'm just kinda sad because no ones raids will ever be at risk.

[jyaku]

i figure for the most part the people making the strictly PVP guilds are going to be the people who do the most raiding. they would probably just say F it and stay in the PVP guild to raid, they may even do that just to keep everything interesting. also, do we actually have regular PK players?

[cured]

This is awesome, thanks Rogean :)

[Ektar]

the implementation of a /guildwar function doesn't hinge on the fact that it'll definitely be used by the top raiding guilds. I can tell you that a month or so ago we were praying for a guildwar function. Right now there's not a huge need for it. The fact that it's AVAILABLE just opens up a new option.



but uuuuuh!

I think the initiation should be leader to leader, or at least to officer. This (1) implies forethought and planning and (2) keeps an obnoxious leader from spamming /guildwar whenever he sees any member of the guild. Ending it can still be any member.

Rewards? I agree with someone above - just winning is a reward. Moreso, I specifically don't want to see a leaderboard or anything. That's not what the game's about, especially since (and also since it's not what the game's about) pvp is so horribly unbalanced.

[Gorroth]

Last I checked, melee combat was still useless vs. any PC character and spell resists are broken. I like PvP but not with broken mechanics.

[ryuut1]

Can we pickpocket people we're at war with?

[Omnimorph]

I like the idea of this, will give some other focus to the people competing over the limited spawns.

A bunch of the stuff people are suggesting doesn't sound like it would adhere to the classic spirit of the server (dyes, armour, titles etc.) I also think there should be mechanics in place to limit the griefing of other players. I for one wouldn't want to have to wait for someone to get bored of camping my corpse for 6 hours before i could loot it.

Not sure whether I'll be using this, but i like the idea of it. It will be entertaining to watch :D

[Rasterburn]

Like I said in a related thread:

PvP belongs on a PvP server.

[Omnimorph]

Like I said in a related thread:

PvP belongs on a PvP server.

Yeah, but you've got to appreciate that this server is limited in its content. Getting a pvp system in place that works would add to the appeal. Raiding the same targets over again and again gets old fairly fast.

and EQ always had pvp, just alot of its aspects put players off most of the time. I think this server could benefit from it.

[Rasterburn]

Yes, EQ had PvP... on the red (Zek) servers.

[Otto]

Last I checked, melee combat was still useless vs. any PC character and spell resists are broken. I like PvP but not with broken mechanics.

This. It'll be absolutely worthless for melees without spells. I mean sure it was rough already but hitting for less than half your normal damage on every single player and missing even when they're sitting is just absurd.

[ryuut1]

Can we pickpocket people we're at war with?

YES I AGREE THIS IS A PRESSING ISSUE

[BrentClagg]

I realize I am still new to p1999, but might as well throw out my opinion. I think guild wars are a good idea and could be very fun and the way it's proposed seems solid. There are a few suggestions I would like to make though.

*Guild officers and leader can start and end wars. This will exclude a random person within the guild from ending a war or accepting one.

*Rogues should not be able to pick pocket other players. Having a pvp system that does not offer items or coin except to rogues seems unbalanced.

*Rewards - The AA system is already built in just currently not accessible. I believe if fighting in pvp you should get better at pvp. Therefore, I believe that a pvp AA system be implemented. You will gain AA as you kill members of the opposing guild and can spend points on pvp only buffs or abilities. These could be things like:

- Do 1/2/3/4/5% more damage to Trolls or Druids players.
- After killing an opposing member worth AA gain 1/2/3 hp/mana regen for 5 min or until combat begins on a pve target.
- 10/20/30% chance on activation to clear CC from another player (1min CD)

Things like the 3 mentioned above would help in guild wars but not in pve. Plus AA can be tracked along with kills/deaths and whatever else on a leaderboard as mentioned in the initial suggestion.

[Harrison]

+1 to PVP AA

[ryuut1]

unbalanced? being melee is going to be unbalanced. give rogues a reason to even get near a PvP caster. i dont remember EQ being about balanced anyhow =P

dont carry coin during a guildwar, and it can't be pickpocketed! why should the gm's have to work to prevent other players bein all like "haw take muh munnee" and im like "ah ok sure thing lemme click on pick pocket!" and i get a whole 9pp out of it.

[internalprime8]

I think you guys are thinking too deeply into this. The satisfaction of killing players from an opposing guild should be plenty of incentive, you don't need to be rewarded otherwise.

[Itchybottom]

unbalanced? being melee is going to be unbalanced. give rogues a reason to even get near a PvP caster.

Defense, AC mitigation and chance to hit is screwy on all EQEMU servers.

On live, if a player was sitting and another player smacked him/her, they'd get the full force damage from the attack, no chance to miss. on EQEMU however, you'll get misses, and the player will have dodge chances, etc.

Riposte calculations are way off, they happen too frequently.

Pet classes are at a disadvantage, because they can't dispel their own pets.

Rogues are at a disadvantage, because of the Hide mechanic. On live, even if the other player had See Invis, it'd still clear their target of you when you pressed Hide. It's a rogue tactic that's been used just about forever. On EQEMU, with See Invis, your target never clears.

Hit boxes are incredibly small for things like Backstab, and there is a lot of latency involved. I blow Backstab ALL THE TIME on fire beetles, where on my screen I am standing in the 3D target ring (close as you can get to the mob without "You can't see your target." spam) with absolutely no damage.

Whirl Til You Hurl lands too frequently, without Tash. You can keep someone on lockdown as an enchanter on EQEMU, with that spell alone.

Ensnare/Root still land at 150 MR

...There is just too much wrong, for PVP to be balanced like EQ live.

[yaeger]

When mage pets can solo monks without any support from the mage, I'm kinda reluctant to introduce PvP. It'll just show how the solo classes shine even more. Maybe with some balance changes...

I played on Sullon Zek for a couple of years, anybody with DoTs or a snare was king. The pure melee (rogue, monk, warrior) couldn't do a thing.

[Itchybottom]

I played on Sullon Zek for a couple of years, anybody with DoTs or a snare was king. The pure melee (rogue, monk, warrior) couldn't do a thing.

Except jump you while you were medding. If you jumped them, there was also a chance of them using egg-shaped pumice and keep coming at you with spells ticking away on them like a Friday the 13th movie. Warriors with a big two-hander, pumice, and some jboots were a force to be reckoned with.

[ryuut1]

would be cool to see intimidate or disarm work in pvp.

are poisons still buggy as well?

[HippoNipple]

To everyone that wants rewards, you fail it wont happen.

To the guy crying because this isn't a pvp server and pvp doesn't belong here, shut up, you suck, go away. No one is forcing you to do any type of pvp.

I think the rules stated by the OP are about as fair and the best you can ask for on this server. There shouldn't be any rewards as far as points, visuals, titles, etc. There will always be someone who earns them in a stupid way that don't deserve it.

The current way he has it set up to where people are kept out of PvP that are not in the guilds at war is a good idea, forcing people to be brought into pvp fights that buff/heal has always been an issue. If you can't bring them in, keeping them out is a good alternative.

Someone also mentioned well couldn't a guild invite a newbie and then have them killed by an opposing guild. The answer is yes and who gives a shit, thats so much work to kill some person and it will never happen. If it did the people setting up this conspiracy to kill a newbie are idiots and they won't gain anything from the kill anyways. All the newbie has to do is a quick corpse run, remove themselves from the guild and leave the zone.

[Extunarian]

I think this system looks great. I will likely roll an alt specifically to join a pvp guild. And I agree with those who say no rewards are necessary....even a leaderboard will be added incentive for folks to cheat.

And if you want to trick a newb into getting ganked, tell them you have some plat for them but they need to target you and type /d to bring up the trade window.

[Overcast]

Someone also mentioned well couldn't a guild invite a newbie and then have them killed by an opposing guild. The answer is yes and who gives a shit, thats so much work to kill some person and it will never happen. If it did the people setting up this conspiracy to kill a newbie are idiots and they won't gain anything from the kill anyways. All the newbie has to do is a quick corpse run, remove themselves from the guild and leave the zone.

Reminder to the staff: don't forget to add 'FYI' about that on the Newbie FAQ's, etc...

That could be frustrating for a few if they don't know anything about it. And no doubt, some bored asshat will try something like that.

[Dragonthorne]

Probably too much to do, but what about a window for each person in the guild when they are online that pops up and asks if they would like to participate in the guild war?

They could select which ever option they like. If they choose no, they could type /guildwar accept or /guildwar participate at a later time if they decide they would like to participate.

This could keep the low members of a guild from getting griefed in newbie zones.

[cured]

C'mon, guys, why are you asking for extra shit from the developers? Some people wanted a PvP option and here it is! Why are some of you acting like you've been automatically enrolled in it?

I don't know how many guilds will take part in this because, let's face it, there are carebears here who will throw a shit fit about it with their guild leadership if that's the direction they want to go in at some point. But there are others of us who will enjoy being able to hunt actual players. That's the added benefit. This ain't wow, you don't get honor points to spend on gear. You get to be pigeon-chested when you burn down another player.

[HippoNipple]

Probably too much to do, but what about a window for each person in the guild when they are online that pops up and asks if they would like to participate in the guild war?

They could select which ever option they like. If they choose no, they could type /guildwar accept or /guildwar participate at a later time if they decide they would like to participate.

This could keep the low members of a guild from getting griefed in newbie zones.

It also allows people to go in and out of pvp too freely, if your guild decides to go to war then they are at war. This isn't just a duel, the weak will be killed!!!!! BWUAHAHAHA .......

Oh wait I'm one of the weak ones....

[Overcast]

C'mon, guys, why are you asking for extra shit from the developers? Some people wanted a PvP option and here it is! Why are some of you acting like you've been automatically enrolled in it?

I don't know how many guilds will take part in this because, let's face it, there are carebears here who will throw a shit fit about it with their guild leadership if that's the direction they want to go in at some point. But there are others of us who will enjoy being able to hunt actual players. That's the added benefit. This ain't wow, you don't get honor points to spend on gear. You get to be pigeon-chested when you burn down another player.

I had a thought...

There are many who aren't in larger guilds or even guilds that want to participate. Some of us outright avoid the 'bigger' guilds because above and beyond anything in this game, we want to avoid excessive drama..

I don't know if it's 'do-able' - but could you have two NPC's that can /guildinvite you to one of two guilds... "Darks" or "Lights" - name them what you will.

Allowing unguilded people to participate in PvP without a real guild. It would work like the VZ/TZ system then - good vs. evil in concept.

Of course, you would be in the 'team guild' - but then guild chat would just function as an enhanced way of inner-team communications and such.

There would be no 'guild leader' save maybe for a GM toon of some sort, or maybe the GM's could just /invite people with a petition rather than a NPC, or whatever. Not asking for a major change so much, just two static 'PvP' guilds...

Stupid idea?

[HippoNipple]

I think thats a great idea. They wouldn't be able to participate in any real guild vs guild since they couldn't accept or decline any war requests, but thats fine. You join the dark or light guild and you are auto red to only the opposing dark/light team. I don't know about guild chat, I mean you really wouldn't even have to have that for them, its basically an unorganized guild that just offers the option for loners to pvp.

[Rogean]

I dig it.

Do we want to force good/evil races to a certain side ala sullon zek?

Also I make no promises if the rest of the dev team doesn't support it.

[Tiggles]

I had a thought...

There are many who aren't in larger guilds or even guilds that want to participate. Some of us outright avoid the 'bigger' guilds because above and beyond anything in this game, we want to avoid excessive drama..

I don't know if it's 'do-able' - but could you have two NPC's that can /guildinvite you to one of two guilds... "Darks" or "Lights" - name them what you will.

Allowing unguilded people to participate in PvP without a real guild. It would work like the VZ/TZ system then - good vs. evil in concept.

Of course, you would be in the 'team guild' - but then guild chat would just function as an enhanced way of inner-team communications and such.

There would be no 'guild leader' save maybe for a GM toon of some sort, or maybe the GM's could just /invite people with a petition rather than a NPC, or whatever. Not asking for a major change so much, just two static 'PvP' guilds...

Stupid idea?


This is a great idea!.

How do we stop someone having their friend the cleric follow them around unguilded and healing people to full with no pvp recourse? The pvp flag that stops you from getting heals/buffs from non pvp players is terrible when you wanna stay pvp for a while but still group but the threat of immortal healing is too powerfull.

Any ideas?

Sullon Zek Sunday

[Overcast]

I dig it.

Do we want to force good/evil races to a certain side ala sullon zek?

Also I make no promises if the rest of the dev team doesn't support it.

Dunno, was thinking about that. Could you do it by deity?

Of course, that might make the 'dark' team too heavy.

[Overcast]

This is a great idea!.

How do we stop someone having their friend the cleric follow them around unguilded and healing people to full with no pvp recourse? The pvp flag that stops you from getting heals/buffs from non pvp players is terrible when you wanna stay pvp for a while but still group but the threat of immortal healing is too powerfull.

Any ideas?

Sullon Zek Sunday

Rog said earlier - if you aren't in the guild, people outside can't buff/heal - so that's non-issue :)
Hell, that would make it better than TZ/VZ

Then ANYONE coming to the server could bascially choose - PvP or not. Be interesting - some guilds might end up in the mix too.
Question thought - since it's a mechanic... could those 'default' teams ever go to war with a guild? That would be even cooler ++

If any guild triggers a guildwar at all, could they automatically be at war with these two, or would that be a bad idea?

[Rogean]

Rog said earlier - if you aren't in the guild, people outside can't buff/heal - so that's non-issue :)

Only if you've been engaged by an enemy guild within the last 5 minutes.

[Overcast]

Only if you've been engaged by an enemy guild within the last 5 minutes.

But once they have engaged - an out of guild cleric couldn't be healing them.

This would also change the group dynamic too - we need to keep that in mind. Red players might not want to group with blue, in case a PvP fight breaks out and vice-versa.

[Rogean]

They wouldn't be red to non-enemy players.

[Overcast]

They wouldn't be red to non-enemy players.

But if you are at Orc 13... Hanging with the brews, killin' Orcs and gnomes... You're a bad ass SK.. Some cleric comes up and starts jumping bad with the SK, nuking with elite nukes and such...

Then the druid in the group who's 'blue' couldn't heal the SK.. for 5 minutes? Maybe I'm getting the mechanics goofed in my head.

Of course - wouldn't want the druid to heal the SK - that would make the dr00d an 'immy healer'.

Of course - people can live with it, it's not a big deal either. I guess - they'd see the 'Dark Team' guild flag and know right off that person (SK) in the group could potentially be attacked...

[ryuut1]

isn't that the priest of discord?

[rioisk]

There should be a tangible benefit to PvPing in that raiding guilds should have incentive to PvP in raid zones to compete for content. Otherwise, these wars wouldn't happen very often in these guilds (which host most of the lvl 50 players).

[Sarkov]

Rogean - i think forcing a side is a bad idea at this point in the server. It might be fine at the start of a server, but not giving friends the option to join together wouldn't be very fun.

I do think the choice should be somewhat permanent though - would be nice if there was at least a relatively long cooldown between "guild switches".

What to do in case of overwhelming imbalance one way or the other? Let the players figure it out?

[Extunarian]

I like the generic light and dark guilds that are in a state of perma-war, but I would still like to see all guilds get the option of participating in a guild war.

The number of unguilded players over level 30 probably isn't huge, and of those the number who would want to pvp is guaranteed to be smaller. Divide that in half and you could end up with very low numbers for the generic light/dark guilds.

I also think the 5 minute 'no outside help' flag is a good compromise. I would hope that if you join a group and your guild is at war you would inform your group mates that you could be attacked. That or just group with guildies.

One thing I do see as a problem...since it sounds like you get PVP flagged the moment you make an offensive action towards an enemy, does that mean a cleric trying to help a guildie has to waste mana on a nuke or take a swing at someone before they can start healing their guild mate?

[HippoNipple]

You guys are losing site of what this idea is all about. This light versus dark unguilded idea was just for the people who are not in guilds. The option for guilds to declare war on each other still stands. You guys are complicating it way too much.

If you have friends and want to play with them Sarkov, then don't join the light or dark guild for loners. You can be in a guild with your friends and do whatever you want.

Everything Rogean has talked about is with choice and doesn't force anything.

[Overcast]

I like the generic light and dark guilds that are in a state of perma-war, but I would still like to see all guilds get the option of participating in a guild war.

The number of unguilded players over level 30 probably isn't huge, and of those the number who would want to pvp is guaranteed to be smaller. Divide that in half and you could end up with very low numbers for the generic light/dark guilds.

I also think the 5 minute 'no outside help' flag is a good compromise. I would hope that if you join a group and your guild is at war you would inform your group mates that you could be attacked. That or just group with guildies.

One thing I do see as a problem...since it sounds like you get PVP flagged the moment you make an offensive action towards an enemy, does that mean a cleric trying to help a guildie has to waste mana on a nuke or take a swing at someone before they can start healing their guild mate?

I think the teams should be 'open' - because many never took that into consideration when joining a guild or whatever. The guild tag will clarify which team you are on. That would also allow both teams to have any class. Bards on both sides, etc. Could still be good vs. evil concept if you want. Would allow people to 'RP' to whatever degree they want with that too.

And maybe most over 30 have a guild, but I suspect many will do up twinks/alts purely for PvP.

Might need to - some guilds may not be too keen on /reguilding people all the time because they want to drop to the generic PvP guild.

I think the main thing to allow a smooth operation is somehow allowing these 'default' guilds to engage in combat with other guilds that are in a state of 'guildwar'.

Hmmm - or is it better to restrict a /guildwar between *just* two guilds?

[Overcast]

You guys are losing site of what this idea is all about. This light versus dark unguilded idea was just for the people who are not in guilds. The option for guilds to declare war on each other still stands. You guys are complicating it way too much.

If you have friends and want to play with them Sarkov, then don't join the light or dark guild for loners. You can be in a guild with your friends and do whatever you want.

Everything Rogean has talked about is with choice and doesn't force anything.

Yeah that too - at it's most simple to implement point..

It would be JUST the two loner guilds vs. each other and other guilds at war with each other.

Although.. couldn't a guildleader petition or whatever to put themselves at war with the loner guilds? Would make it a guild based choice then.

That would then allow two guilds to be at war with just each other and not have to worry about asshats in the 'loner' guilds coming in to solely gank healers during a raid. Rangers on the clerics can be a very bad thing, lol.

A total PvP guild would want to be at war with everyone, all the time, lol.
That all might be the easiest answer.

[Dantes]

I like it but I don't think it's a good idea to be able to target ANY member of ANY guild and use the guildwar command. The leader of that guild could potentially be spammed with "Do you want to go to war" messages by another guild leader. People could abuse the system. Perhaps one leader has to target another leader to initiate?

[Tallenn]

I wouldn't like it. I don't like PvP AT ALL in EQ. IMO, the game is not designed for it, period. I don't have a problem with other people choosing to PvP, but I don't like it being forced on me in any way whatsoever. PvP should NEVER be anything but completely voluntary, and changing that on a server that's already established is wrong, IMO.

With this system, I have limited choices: I can either not be guilded, or find a guild where everyone else also dislikes PvP, such that they would never accept a /guildwar. OR- find a guild that would agree to re-invite those who choose not to participate once the war is over.

This system WOULD force PvP on people that didn't want it, or else force them to /guildremove. The only acceptable solution I can see that would allow this not to force PvP on the unwilling would be to give each guild member a choice to "opt out" of the guild war. This would have to be a one-time choice that would stay in effect for the entire duration of the war in order to keep people from exploiting it, which would be just fine with me.

[cured]

I wouldn't like it. I don't like PvP AT ALL in EQ. IMO, the game is not designed for it, period. I don't have a problem with other people choosing to PvP, but I don't like it being forced on me in any way whatsoever. PvP should NEVER be anything but completely voluntary, and changing that on a server that's already established is wrong, IMO.

With this system, I have limited choices: I can either not be guilded, or find a guild where everyone else also dislikes PvP, such that they would never accept a /guildwar. OR- find a guild that would agree to re-invite those who choose not to participate once the war is over.

This system WOULD force PvP on people that didn't want it, or else force them to /guildremove. The only acceptable solution I can see that would allow this not to force PvP on the unwilling would be to give each guild member a choice to "opt out" of the guild war. This would have to be a one-time choice that would stay in effect for the entire duration of the war in order to keep people from exploiting it, which would be just fine with me.

Please, man. Do you think this is being forced on you? Do you really think most of the guilds will signup for it? You realize BOTH guilds have to agree to sign up for it.

I understand your compromise, though. Perhaps a better option would be just to have a guild rank for PvP, so people like you don't have to worry about it while other guildies go out and kill people.

[internalprime8]

I wouldn't like it. I don't like PvP AT ALL in EQ. IMO, the game is not designed for it, period. I don't have a problem with other people choosing to PvP, but I don't like it being forced on me in any way whatsoever. PvP should NEVER be anything but completely voluntary, and changing that on a server that's already established is wrong, IMO.

With this system, I have limited choices: I can either not be guilded, or find a guild where everyone else also dislikes PvP, such that they would never accept a /guildwar. OR- find a guild that would agree to re-invite those who choose not to participate once the war is over.

This system WOULD force PvP on people that didn't want it, or else force them to /guildremove. The only acceptable solution I can see that would allow this not to force PvP on the unwilling would be to give each guild member a choice to "opt out" of the guild war. This would have to be a one-time choice that would stay in effect for the entire duration of the war in order to keep people from exploiting it, which would be just fine with me.

If your guild leader forces your guild into a war with another guild when there are members who don't want to be involved in PVP then you probably don't want to be a part of that guild anyway, no?

[Overcast]

If your guild leader forces your guild into a war with another guild when there are members who don't want to be involved in PVP then you probably don't want to be a part of that guild anyway, no?

I suspect there will be plenty of non-PvP guilds.

[jyaku]

i don't think good v evil is a good idea, one side will end up being stacked more than the other, granted even if we just do the /guildwar there is still the chance of one guild being more stacked than the other. really no way to prevent this unless you make a few PvP only guilds, ones that are always PVP with each other.

[HippoNipple]

Its ridiculous the fear that some people have. Its selfish to complain about having a system like this for pvp. For how many blue servers there were compared to the few pvp servers it really shows what type of players are loyal to EQ and have come back after all these years. There are so many pvpers on this server, the voting is 110 to 44 pro pvp right now.

This is just a small taste of what classic Everquest was to us, since it looks like most of us came from a pvp back ground, and people like Tallenn can't stop bitching. Don't worry your game wont change, you can still do what you do now. In fact this will help you out because the stuff you will want to do will be more open since others will be occupied.

If all of your friends/guildies want to do something that you don't, you want them to suffer and do what you want to do? Maybe you should go find a guild/friends that like the same stuff as you instead of making people do what you want. If your guild would be excited about this as a whole and it would make the game more fun for them, you are an ass for trying to squash it.

Most of the guilds will not switch over, I promise you that. It will most likely be alt guilds created after this new rule comes to order. There may be a few guild wars among guild rivals that last a short time, but if you can't get involved in your guilds rivalry between another guild for a couple of days then you aren't a good member. The big guilds will still have raiding as their top priority and will not risk getting killed by players during a raid.

I'm guessing you have people just like you in your current guild Tallenn, you don't have to worry about it converting.


To Jyaku, who cares if the numbers are uneven in a loner pvp npc guild. You are in it to pvp, if you are outnumbered thats actually better. If you are on a side and realize there are no targets because you are all on the same side.. people will switch naturally. Its not like the two npc made guilds are going to be organized dominating the other.

[Dantes]

People do have some ridiculous fear of PvP. I had people actually leave my guild when we did a /guildwar back during live. And it was a staged war setup with a rival guild full our our friends. But still people freaked out, even after we assured them it was just for fun, they wouldn't lose items and they wouldn't lose exp.

[Overcast]

Its ridiculous the fear that some people have. Its selfish to complain about having a system like this for pvp. For how many blue servers there were compared to the few pvp servers it really shows what type of players are loyal to EQ and have come back after all these years. There are so many pvpers on this server, the voting is 110 to 44 pro pvp right now.

This is just a small taste of what classic Everquest was to us, since it looks like most of us came from a pvp back ground, and people like Tallenn can't stop bitching. Don't worry your game wont change, you can still do what you do now. In fact this will help you out because the stuff you will want to do will be more open since others will be occupied.

If all of your friends/guildies want to do something that you don't, you want them to suffer and do what you want to do? Maybe you should go find a guild/friends that like the same stuff as you instead of making people do what you want. If your guild would be excited about this as a whole and it would make the game more fun for them, you are an ass for trying to squash it.

Most of the guilds will not switch over, I promise you that. It will most likely be alt guilds created after this new rule comes to order. There may be a few guild wars among guild rivals that last a short time, but if you can't get involved in your guilds rivalry between another guild for a couple of days then you aren't a good member. The big guilds will still have raiding as their top priority and will not risk getting killed by players during a raid.

I'm guessing you have people just like you in your current guild Tallenn, you don't have to worry about it converting.


To Jyaku, who cares if the numbers are uneven in a loner pvp npc guild. You are in it to pvp, if you are outnumbered thats actually better. If you are on a side and realize there are no targets because you are all on the same side.. people will switch naturally. Its not like the two npc made guilds are going to be organized dominating the other.

Yeah, some guilds might elect to make a 'PvP division' for their guild. Others won't go PvP at all. Hippo's got a real good point - it will take many out of the XP/Loot loop at times, freeing up those camps for others.

As for the good vs/ bad thing - I think the running suggestion was to just allow people which team they want to be on - non-guilded.

And THAT idea, would take care of 3/4 people in the guild wanting to PvP but the rest not wanting to PvP as well. Not just 'unguilded'. Of course, that's a guild decision as it may require reinvites frequently.

But heck if 50% of your guild wants to PvP, no reason they couldn't just join the loner guild for a while, then come back to the normal guild.

Of course, that brings up a question as to how to join the 'loner' guild. Maybe a GM could do invites during certain hours each day if it can't be automated with a NPC.

Or... could just ANYONE in the 'loner' guild invite? What would it hurt?

[cured]

As far as race war...I did that and I love it. But given this server's PvP population will be pretty low, it's best to have PvPers guilding with people they enjoy playing with. Let the halfling druids cast dots on each other, I say.

What needs to happen for this to be really successful is to have at least two guilds of upper-level players who can play the PvE and PvP game, rather than just twinks who will fade out when they realize the other twinks aren't logged on.

[cured]

Would it be possible to have a PvP rank within guilds? So anyone not in the rank wouldn't be flagged but everyone else would? That'd make the system great...you could have continual, open war with other guilds. The invulnerable healer thing may be an issue but at least players could stay guilded and PvP.

[jyaku]

why not just make a /pvp (on/off) command, limit it to one "flip" per 24hour, the zone out thing also. or maybe just change the priest of discord to respond to commands that are the pvp on/off so that you can't just turn it off out in the field. instead of forcing people to choose sides, just make it total FFA across the server but you have a choice of doing it. i remember one Ultima online shard had something to that effect, you could choose to be flaged NoN PVPable sence everybody was able to be killed at any time. same idea just opposite effect. as for the balancing, would there be a way to fix the resists/spells to effect players differently than NPCs. Again using UO as a basis from free shards changing stuff like that, not sure on how EQ coding would work to that effect

[Tallenn]

Geez, all I asked for was a way to opt-out if my guild decides to /guildwar, instead of having to /guildremove for the duration of it. What's so bad about that?

The server has been the way it is since inception. This would be a major change to it, effecting a lot of people that have ABSOLUTELY ZERO interest in PvP, who joined it with the knowledge that there was no PvP outside of The Arena, city arenas, and duels. Yes, I know there was /guildwar in classic. However, I never saw anyone use it, or even heard of anyone that was using it. I think it was brought up for discussion in one of the guilds I was in once in live. It was shot down visciously and immediately, and yes, I was one of the most vocal in that discussion. As far as I can see, this topic hasn't yet been brought up on my guild's boards. If it is, I will voice my opinion there, as well.

This is why so many people spoke out against it on the thread asking for an all-volunteer PvP zone accessed from EC tunnel. Now you want guildwar functionality. Give you an inch, you take two inches, give you three, you ask for four. Give a n******* a rope, he wants to be a cowboy.

[Tallenn]

why not just make a /pvp (on/off) command, limit it to one "flip" per 24hour, the zone out thing also. or maybe just change the priest of discord to respond to commands that are the pvp on/off so that you can't just turn it off out in the field. instead of forcing people to choose sides, just make it total FFA across the server but you have a choice of doing it. i remember one Ultima online shard had something to that effect, you could choose to be flaged NoN PVPable sence everybody was able to be killed at any time. same idea just opposite effect. as for the balancing, would there be a way to fix the resists/spells to effect players differently than NPCs. Again using UO as a basis from free shards changing stuff like that, not sure on how EQ coding would work to that effect

Some good ideas there. All of it seems to be completely voluntary, so I have no problem with them. As far as balance, as long as it doesn't affect PvE, I could give two shits.

[Extunarian]

Tallen, you are getting a little out of hand here. If your guild decides to guild war in spite of your protesting, perhaps it isn't the right guild for you.

jyaku - that idea probably should be discussed outside of this thread. This is a thread about Rogean's proposed guild war rules. Start a new one if you want to discuss changing the way individuals use the PoD.

None of the guilds on the server today were formed to PvP, and as such they will have members who would participate in pvp, and members who have no interest in doing so. Either a realignment of PvPers into PvP guilds will take place, or people will roll alts to participate in those PvP guilds. It won't be the end of the world and no one will care in 2 weeks. Remember OMG NO GLOBAL OOC??!!!

[Taluvill]

The only thing I would say is cut the reward system.

Just let us fight.

[cured]

This is why so many people spoke out against it on the thread asking for an all-volunteer PvP zone accessed from EC tunnel. Now you want guildwar functionality. Give you an inch, you take two inches, give you three, you ask for four. Give a n******* a rope, he wants to be a cowboy.

A PvP zone is just an arena, nothing more.

Give a n******* a rope, he wants to be a cowboy.

Explain yourself.

[cured]

Anyways, are going to get two guildleaders for this or are we going to have the NPCs take care of it for us?

[jyaku]

i was just throwing the idea out there, making sure rogean would see it. if it was starting to get discussed here i would make a new thread.

[HippoNipple]

Anyways, are going to get two guildleaders for this or are we going to have the NPCs take care of it for us?

The good vs evil is just a side idea, Rogean never said it is happening. If it did happen yes, it would need to be NPC, not player driven.

The whole point is for players who don't want to be in a pvp guild, or any guild for that matter. I don't think the guild should even get guild chat. Its just a way for loners to participate in the new guildwar pvp system.

People were asking if player guilds would be able to declare war on the NPC evil/good guilds. I think they should be able to, and it wouldn't be something you could accept/decline if you were in the NPC guild. If any guild wanted to declare war on the loners they should be able to. It should work the same as if a player guild declared war on another, except it would be auto accepted.

[cured]

Is it possible to allow two guilds to ally so they can share guild chat? That would eliminate much of the hassle regarding deguilding or not. Say (My Little Pony) wants to team with (Sons of Anarchy), the players in the guilds could keep their guild tags as is but share the same channel for guild communication.

Or can this be done via a custom channel?

[Taxi]

Any offensive action done between two opposing players will set a 5 minute flag on both players that prevents them from being affected by benificial buffs from anyone outside their guild.


It looks good at a glance, only tweak id suggest is the quote up here, 5 minutes seems a trivial amount of time. A cleric/druid can just hang around and re-apply DS basically just a minute after the other has ended. Id put it more along a 1 hour timer, maybe more, just woke up things are still fuzzy. Its probably safe to assume that someone willingly participating in pvp guildwar wont be annoyed at getting gimped for pve for more than 5 minutes.

[Tiggles]

I'm sure it was mentioned before but instead of Light and Dark the guilds should just be rivals so there is no imbalance in what you wanna join with.

My friend is an ogre shaman I am a halfling rogue if we wanna pvp together we should be able too.

My suggestion two Erudite NPCS one for the Bloods and One for the Crypts. Hail them and they flag you as one or the other. Hail the other one and switch if wanted or opt out all together.

[Kutter]

keep a guild leaderboard, and and give out a rotating title to whoever is top ranked each month. could be individual titles also, but not given to alot of people.