130 Specialize Evocation No Mana Reduction?

[Baler]

I have 130+ Specialize Evocation and when I cast an Evocation spell that cost 105 mana the spell always takes 105 mana.

On the wiki it says:
"The formula for mana preservation is 1% mana preservation per 20 skill points"
http://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Specialization

So why am I not seeing a mana reduction on my evocation spells?

[norova]

When a spell is cast a roll is thrown to see if it receives the Specialization bonus. The higher your Specialization skill the more likely it is the roll will succeed, and the greater the benefit of the roll.

It doesn't effect every spell you cast in that school. It is simply a chance to have an effect. That said, I'm not sure what the actual chance is.

[Hogfather]

On the wiki page you linked it says:
When a spell is cast a roll is thrown to see if it receives the Specialization bonus. The higher your Specialization skill the more likely it is the roll will succeed, and the greater the benefit of the roll. A successful roll will do two things:
* It will reduce the mana used on the spell.
* It will reduce the chance of fizzling.

Hmmm though this old post on Graffe's is contradictory:
The "chance" wording in the description has been around for a long time, but it was shown early in EQ's history that this is not true. Specialization is a fixed mana reduction for that class of spell. It was one of the first things that people discovered when they started using ShowEQ.

I am not sure of the exact amount. If I recall, the basic 50 specialization was 2.5%. So that makes 200 spec worth 10% mana savings.

http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?48959-Specialize-Evocation

[Daywolf]

Yes, it's only a chance to reduce mana. I've never done a spec in evo, but same formula that works for conj and alter which I have, and I certainly see mana reduction, if at least sporadic. It's still low, but as you raise it you should see better results.

[applesauce25r624]

just figure it to be a 10% mana savings over an infinitely long fight

[Daldaen]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a guaranteed chance to save that 10% mana every cast of that specialization. It's that way on Live currently. Cast any spell and you'll see with specialization it will reduce the mana cost a fixed amount every single cast. Even at 50 or 200 skill.

It is basically impossible to prove that it functioned like this in classic, since mana value wasn't shown in the UI until LoY/GoD. So exact mana cost wasn't easy to decipher based off of looking at your mana bar (again they didn't have % values displayable til PoP). But I have a tough time believing they changed it from a chance to a guaranteed savings at some point during EQ without any mention.

I'd be curious to see the equation we have on this server.

I definitely think it should be guaranteed. Melee on this server are quite powerful relative to casters especially concerning sustained DPS/Utility. Casters are much more limited by their mana bar. Allowing them to sustain their mana when casting primary spells sounds more in line with classic. I definitely remember specialization being a big deal.

[Baler]

Suppose I should carify that I know the wiki says there is a "chance". Yet it seems like the chance is insanely slim or I have the worst dice/rng results in eq.
Everytime I write down my before mana and my after mana, before and after casting an evocation spell it is the exact full cost. I even in practice after leveling cast an evocation spell on myself saw it cost full mana, meditated and repeated a series of 20 casts all full mana cost.

[applesauce25r624]

I definitely think it should be guaranteed

me, too, but only for the underpowered casters

shit. give it to rangers, paladins and SK's as well. fuckin hybrid haters >_> !

[kaev]

I don't recall noting any difference with fizzles vs. specialization on live. I do recall that the spec bonus counted on every cast. Unfortuantely, I did not play any non-hybrid caster to 30+ until well past classic era so this post is completely useless. :p

[Scrubosaur]

This is the way it was explained to me back in the day on my necromancer:

Specialization is a 10% mana reduction when it "procs". There is a 1% chance for it to "proc" per 10 points of specialization. This meant that at 60 there was a 23% chance that a spell in maxed specialization used 10% less mana. And then the other spells maxed at 50 which meant a 5% chance. It made enough of a difference to drop certain spells that weren't your specialization when soloing and if a druid said he spec'd evocation you knew he wouldn't be an efficient healer.

As far as fizzles vs specialization, I seem to remember early on that it made a huge difference. When Luclin came out they added some AA's that reduced the chance to fizzle which resulted in a nerf to specialization (and to spell/instruments skills in general). At that time I also played a bard so it was very noticeable that something had changed with skills due to all the "missed notes".

[Daldaen]

That sounds like an EQ wives tale. Just like J-Boots running slower and levitate in fear creating trains. It's just a matter of people not truly understanding game mechanics.

Specialization should check always. Log on live and check it with any spell. It will reduce mana on every single cast. Has done that ever since mana values were shown in the UI and it is extremely likely it did that before the mana value was shown.

[Daldaen]

EQClerics 2000 (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1266&highlight=Specialization)

The effect of specialization on mana cost is a constant, and is applied to every spell casting.

For Alteration (specialization 200), each casting saved close to 10% (9.9%) on the cost of the spells.

For Abjuration (specialization 50), the mana cost on each spell was reduced roughly 1.4%.

I think it is time to ClassicQuest this... Cause this is a pretty big issue if it's not taking effect every cast. Any dev able to weigh in as to the functionality of it on this server currently?

[Scrubosaur]

That sounds like an EQ wives tale. Just like J-Boots running slower and levitate in fear creating trains. It's just a matter of people not truly understanding game mechanics.

Specialization should check always. Log on live and check it with any spell. It will reduce mana on every single cast. Has done that ever since mana values were shown in the UI and it is extremely likely it did that before the mana value was shown.

That's not how it works or this AA would not make any sense....


Spell Casting Mastery: (3 skill levels) - Each skill increases the caster's chance of successfully using his specialization skill for the spell he is casting. This works for all spell types. The result is a reduced chance of spell failure (fizzle) and a greater chance of a reduction of the mana cost for the spell. The increase in the caster's chance to successfully use his specialization is 5% for the first skill level, 15% for the second skill level and 30% for the third skill level. Hybrids can not gain this ability because they do not have the specialization skill.

This AA increases your CHANCE of specialization working. If it worked every time then what would be the point. But it also does help clarify that specialization is supposed to reduce the fizzle chance as well as mana usage.

[Daldaen]

Ironically, I had that very same discussion on the Mac server with the longtime members of the server. Basically... That AA was extremely badly worded.

Get on live and read the description of that AA:

Live Shorthand Descriptions (http://eqaasearch.org/aainfo.asp?search_fd1=%2ASpell+Casting+Mastery%2A&search_fd12=Druid)

Basically those AA ranks reduces the mana cost of every single cast by 2-5-10% going from rank 1-2-3 respectively. Meaning with 200 spec and rank 3 AA you would preserve 20% mana EVERY cast.

More EQClerics 2002 (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5344&highlight=Spell+Casting+Mastery) this time since we are mentioning AAs:

Acording to ShowEQ it works every time...

As for the AA skill, it doesn't increase yor 'chance' of saving mana.

What it actually does is adds to your effective spec skills and therefore increases your mana savings. The increase in mana savings is aproximately half of the number shown in the AA descriptions.

I would suggest reading : http://pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffeswiz...picID=23.topic

[This message has been edited by Zyphyr (edited 04-17-2002).]


I'm pretty confident on this one.

[Scrubosaur]

Ya it does look like it is supposed to be a flat reduction in mana usage :

Effect on Mana Consumption

Specialization skills passively reduce the amount of mana that is consumed when casting spells from that school, according to the following formula:

1 + (Skill_Value / 20) = Percentage_Reduction

...where "Skill_Value" is the skill point number that the character has in the associated specialization skill, and "Percentage_Reduction" is the perentage of mana that will be preserved.

Thus, for a given spell school, a character gains 1% mana cost reduction just for having the Specialization skill at all, and 1% more for every 20 points of the skill.

[Ciroco]

This would be huge toward getting casters in the same realm as melees.

To Bugs!

[Daldaen]

This would be huge toward getting casters in the same realm as melees.

To Bugs!

Done

[Cogwell]

a guaranteed chance

“They’ve done studies, you know. 60 percent of the time, it works every time.” — Brian Fantana

[lurk]

I'm 100% that specialization should go off every time. The reason I know this is because the AA SCM said it increased chance for spec to go off. In that era there was a ton of parses done to show that specialization works everytime and SCM simply increased the % mana saved. I don't have time to look this stuff up right now but there has to be Luclin/PoP era posts explaining what specialization does and what SCM does...not classic but then I seriously doubt anyone actually put in the effort to test this before SCM.
50 spec should be 2.5% mana off.
200 spec should be 10% mana off.
SCM3 should be 20% mana off.