Manastone (65k)

[finalgrunt]

Title says it all, PST

[Sadface]

WTB cloak of flames 65k

[Slax]

I've seen 2 Manastones go for 60k last week. Don't ever recall seeing a CoF for around that price, or even at all for that matter.

[azeth]

How did level 50 toons with planes gear go from 70k to 350.

Especially since everyone has a level 50 now after bonus week.

WTS my level 50s for 350k as well pst

So a quest which at one point a druid could repeat hundreds of times in one day yields over 175k.

Looks like I missed the gravy train

lol @ Gouldbane

Lol I love how you undervalue everything (cept bracer) you are searching for and over value your BP.

don't think anything of it, he just loves flaming in EC.

[finalgrunt]

Thanks for the bumps guys !

Cheers!

[Sadface]

I've seen 2 Manastones go for 60k last week. Don't ever recall seeing a CoF for around that price, or even at all for that matter.

lololololololololololololololololololololololol

[GypsyGirl]

65k is a very reasonable price.

[finalgrunt]

Raising price to 75k due to recent drops =)

[Daldolma]

75 is reasonable. That's roughly going price these days. Can't imagine selling one myself, though. It's basically the only item in game right now whose price will go up with Kunark -- and it will skyrocket. And it will continue to skyrocket for the rest of this server's duration. No matter how many new people join the server, the number of manastones remains fixed. And as mana pools grow, it becomes more and more valuable. All it takes to manastone to full in Kunark is a bind and a port. It's the one item that can change the entire gameplay dynamics.

But like I said, 75k is going price these days. I'm sure he'll find one for that. People typically need money sooner than later, so they cut and run from investments.

[finalgrunt]

Inflation gives you the illusion that you're richer today than the day before *shrugs*

[Tiggles]

75 is reasonable. That's roughly going price these days. Can't imagine selling one myself, though. It's basically the only item in game right now whose price will go up with Kunark -- and it will skyrocket. And it will continue to skyrocket for the rest of this server's duration. No matter how many new people join the server, the number of manastones remains fixed. And as mana pools grow, it becomes more and more valuable. All it takes to manastone to full in Kunark is a bind and a port. It's the one item that can change the entire gameplay dynamics.

But like I said, 75k is going price these days. I'm sure he'll find one for that. People typically need money sooner than later, so they cut and run from investments.

until the next dup bug hits.

[Zorpa]

Inflation gives you the illusion that you're richer today than the day before *shrugs*

Most people don't understand the ramifications of inflation in the real world so it's unlikely it's going to be understood by most in EQ either.

[skellogg02]

I guess 1 is never enough :D

<3 ya Daima

-Opti

[Daldolma]

It's not inflation -- it's the fact that the server population is bound to double with Kunark, but the number of Manastones remain the same. It's also the fact that every other item from classic reduces in value, whereas the Manastone increases. Inflation plays a role in the price, but the value isn't equivalent. Adjusted for inflation, the manastone's raw value today is far less than what it will be in the future. But most people don't want to wait.

[Toony]

If you cant use it in Kunark how does its value increase? The whole bind/port thing is a pita. I remember the bottom dropping out of them right as Kunark launched on live. Why would things be all that different here?

[Skope]

It's not inflation -- it's the fact that the server population is bound to double with Kunark, but the number of Manastones remain the same. It's also the fact that every other item from classic reduces in value, whereas the Manastone increases. Inflation plays a role in the price, but the value isn't equivalent. Adjusted for inflation, the manastone's raw value today is far less than what it will be in the future. But most people don't want to wait.

the manastone will decrease in price significantly. every class but wizards/druids will likely sell theirs and most likely all at once (just before/after kunark).

EDIT: much the same happened with rubi BPs. the item itself became more of a status symbol than an actually useful item

[gprater]

was running thru nek the other day and saw a CoF offered for 810K...i did a spit take

[azxten]

Actually there is a ton of manastones sitting on inactive accounts from people who got bored and left. When Kunark comes out they'll be back and flooding the market for awhile.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Why do humans think they can predict the future?

Manastones are not comparable to rubicite breastplates. There are not multiple upgrades for manastone in Kunark.

[Noleafclover]

Why do humans think they can predict the future?

Manastones are not comparable to rubicite breastplates. There are not multiple upgrades for manastone in Kunark.

Can make a lot of money if you can predict what will happen in the future correctly 51% of the time.

I can't obviously predict correctly, but I'm willing to bet that manastones will drop in a way obviously related to kunark by 10 or more k.

And we both know you won't take me up on that.

[JayDee]

Raising price to 75k due to recent drops =)

Exactly

Anyone saying manastone will go down in value is dumb. The combination of the fact it doesn't drop anymore, a lot of people quit meaning manastones will become more rare, and also the fact it will be essential for all druids and ESPECIALLY wizards.

I'd say it will probably be over 300k by velious

Laugh now but don't be surprised if it actually dwarfs that number :)

[finalgrunt]

On the long run it will raise. On the short term, price could lower a bit.

[Cheech]

/wave Diam

[finalgrunt]

/hug Cheech & Optical

[Daldolma]

If you cant use it in Kunark how does its value increase? The whole bind/port thing is a pita. I remember the bottom dropping out of them right as Kunark launched on live. Why would things be all that different here?

I don't know what server you played on, but within the first 3 months of Kunark on my server, manastone's price jumped 250%. They were going for 50-75k before release, and 150-200k within 3 months of the start of Kunark.

And the bind/port thing is not a pita. You have a druid take a cleric team to GFay and they all gate back FM 2 minutes later. Wizards can port out, eat up manastone hits on their epic's rune, and gate back FM. Any group/raid with a porter and a healer can get any and all casters they want to FM in a matter of about 2 minutes with a manastone.

The item just becomes more and more useful as mana pools grow. It's literally an invaluable item. A cleric with a manastone can run himself OOM at the beginning of a raid encounter, get ported out, manastone to full, gate back, and be FM again for the same encounter. Wizards are insanely OP'd burst DPS with epic/manastone. Druids are the most obvious users. It's just a game-changer. If you're a caster, and more specifically a cleric, wizard, or druid, it's literally the most valuable item in the game for you. And it's still highly useful for other casters. And that completely ignores the toy, status-symbol aspect of the item.

[Daldolma]

On the long run it will raise. On the short term, price could lower a bit.

Yep, I think that's about right. Not sure if it will lower, but I don't think it will rise significantly any time soon. But in the long-run, it'll skyrocket relative to all other items. Manastone is the only item in the game now that will increase in value when Kunark is released, and it will be one of the only items -- if not the only item -- from Kunark that will increase in value come Velious. Just about every item in game has a downward sloping value curve from the time of its introduction. Manastone is the opposite.

[finalgrunt]

Yep, I think that's about right. Not sure if it will lower, but I don't think it will rise significantly any time soon. But in the long-run, it'll skyrocket relative to all other items. Manastone is the only item in the game now that will increase in value when Kunark is released, and it will be one of the only items -- if not the only item -- from Kunark that will increase in value come Velious. Just about every item in game has a downward sloping value curve from the time of its introduction. Manastone is the opposite.

There is a difference with Live though. Many accounts have got many of them (to reuse an old player on this server: "everybody and their mums has got one"). As Kunark will come, many of those old accounts will be reactivated. And I bet many manastones will be on the market to buy those many new shiny items available.

[finalgrunt]

Manastone bought. Thanks for keeping this thread alive with interesting discussions.

*hugs everybody*

[Alawen Everywhere]

Can make a lot of money if you can predict what will happen in the future correctly 51% of the time.

I can't obviously predict correctly, but I'm willing to bet that manastones will drop in a way obviously related to kunark by 10 or more k.

And we both know you won't take me up on that.

How much would you like to wager? I saw a WTB in East Commons today for 80K for at least two hours. Here is my bet: the price will continue to climb and it will be 10K or more higher than it is by the time Kunark release. I further stipulate that the price will be at least another 10K higher 60 days after Kunark's release than the price at release.

I've done a little bit of research about this. Somewhere between 250 and 400 legitimate manastones dropped on this server. That's not enough for even half of the population at prime time. Some people have more than one. Many people who had manastones have quit or been banned.

Anyone who lacks the cleverness to realize that the item is still amazing after Kunark and for the life of this server will learn from the people who are clever. If there is a significant price drop after the Kunark release, it will be brief and most of the manastones sold during that time will not be resold later.

If someone is duplicating manastones, they are being so careful about selling them that it doesn't appear to be affecting the market at all.

Manastone is possibly the most rare and valuable item for the duration of this server. If I didn't already have mine, I would be trying to scrape together 75K.

[Toony]

I've done a little bit of research about this. Somewhere between 250 and 400 legitimate manastones dropped on this server.

Just out of curiosity how'd you determine that number?

[Daldolma]

Yup -- think Alawen nailed it. Only bit I'd add is that there are 2 issues that affect the price of an item. 1) utility and 2) rarity. Or in other words, demand and supply.

1 - as documented above, the manastone is bar-none the most useful item in the game through at least Kunark, and arguably Velious, for clerics, druids, and wizards. It literally means more to these characters than any other piece they could possibly have, with the exception of epics. It is also extremely useful for any other class that uses mana -- even a nice toy for necros -- but literally #1 for clerics/druids/wizards. And given the fact that clerics are the most irreplaceable and demanded class in game, druids are currently the most common class in game, and wizards become incredibly OP'd burst DPS in Kunark and Velious, I'd say there are plenty of people that will be demanding manastones. And to any of the 3 main classes of use, it is worth whatever it costs to attain one, which will continuously drive the price higher and higher as more plat gets amassed and manastones for sale become rarer.

2) Obviously, the manastone is incredibly rare. No new manastones can be attained. Though, as Alawen stated, there are roughly 300 on the server, I'd guesstimate that about 50 of those are irretrievably lost -- on banned accounts, or accounts of players that have (or will have) quit permanently by Kunark release. I'd guesstimate that another 150 of those will never see the market, because they're being stashed by players that intend to use them or just hold onto them for sentimental value/future alts/future investment. Most of the people on this server that have manastones really aren't scrapped for plat. That leaves about 100 for the server population that isn't part of the "old money" of P99. Now even of these, you're talking about plenty that will be bought and kept for mains. And this server is expanding daily. Within 6 months or so, I think it will be hard to find a manastone for sale at all, at any reasonable price. Eventually, they all hit players that need them for mains, and won't look to re-sell. Sooner or later, every manastone hits a dead end, because there's literally no improvement for it. It's not like they get recycled by the end-game players. Once they reach the right main, they are essentially off the market forever, or at least unless the person decides to re-roll. Supply is low already, and lowering every week.

Population increases. Demand increases. Supply decreases. The rest should be obvious.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Just out of curiosity how'd you determine that number?

I talked to about 20 people who had camped it about how long their camps took both before the camp was nerfed around the beginning of the year and afterwards, assumed that it was camped 24/7 whenever the server was up until the drop was removed and came up with low numbers and high numbers based on the rates those people agreed sounded within their experience. I never had the camp myself, although I sat there several times waiting until I decided that it would be easier to farm the platinum and buy one than to get screwed repeatedly.

Edit: I should add that some of the people I talked to had the camp for long periods of time, often 24 hours or more. Also, I think Daldolma's explanation is very good and hard to argue against.

Edit #2: Also, as a small note, paralleling the wizard epic, druids get increasingly efficient regeneration, both in terms of hit points per tick and mana cost per hit point over time.

[Slax]

If I didn't already have mine

Well I guess that explains it. If you had it your way they'd be worth a million, too bad their not and never will be (actually some servers on live they may go for this much, but no one gives a shit about them). For a guy who played a druid for 8 years on live, they were pretty much worthless for my class for that whole duration afaic (I did not play in classic).

It takes 600 hp's away for the cost of mana just to port / gate back if you're counting clicks on the stone and all the "free mana" you get from it (not to mention the mana cost to keep perma chloro / regrowth going). It just isn't worth it unless you can use it on the spot while hunting / quading / grouping where you can instantly sit right back down letting life regen faster.

Now for use on classic? It's great, I love it. As for other classes and their usefulness? I can't say. I guess I could port a cleric out and keep healing him over and over and over so he can get a full bar then gate back, sure would be awesome for him, yea I bet. Or the Wizard epic clicks... But as for a Druid who you say it's so essential for? I don't think so.

[Daldolma]

Well I guess that explains it. If you had it your way they'd be worth a million, too bad their not and never will be (actually some servers on live they may go for this much, but no one gives a shit about them). For a guy who played a druid for 8 years on live, they were pretty much worthless for my class for that whole duration afaic (I did not play in classic).

It takes 600 hp's away for the cost of mana just to port / gate back if you're counting clicks on the stone and all the "free mana" you get from it (not to mention the mana cost to keep perma chloro / regrowth going). It just isn't worth it unless you can use it on the spot while hunting / quading / grouping where you can instantly sit right back down letting life regen faster.

Now for use on classic? It's great, I love it. As for other classes and their usefulness? I can't say. I guess I could port a cleric out and keep healing him over and over and over so he can get a full bar then gate back, sure would be awesome for him, yea I bet. Or the Wizard epic clicks... But as for a Druid who you say it's so essential for? I don't think so.

There's no reason you'd have to heal the cleric. They can stone/CH to full in like 2-3 minutes max -- shorter if they have Donal's Arms or Donal's BP, which are mana-free 200hp heal and CH (though with long casting times) in Kunark. If you love it in classic, then there's no reason not to in Kunark. It just becomes more useful, because with expanded mana pools and increased hp regen/heals, it's going to be more and more of a pain to regenerate mana, while you have more and more hp to spare. The initial 200 mana pay-to-play hit is not that big a deal when you're regenning 20+ hp a tick with regrowth up. If you're medding from OOM, a manastone basically cuts your downtime into 1/2 to 1/3 of what it would be otherwise. It might be annoying to port/gate and do all the actual manastone/healing/regen-ing rather than passively medding, but it's well worth it in terms of actual utility.

[Slax]

with expanded mana pools and increased hp regen/heals, it's going to be more and more of a pain to regenerate mana, while you have more and more hp to spare.

When I quit your average higher end druid had around 30k hp's, now they got around 40k. So with expanded mana / hp regeneration and way way bigger HP / mana pools, the manastone should be better than ever, right? Never ever ever never in all my time of playing a druid, with other high end druids, have I seen a druid port out to Karana or something to use a manastone then gate back. Now if I got to port a cleric out too, so he can make use of it? It triples the mana cost.

No way is it useful enough, not for a druid. Not to mention the danger of being in a deep dungeon and taking the chance of dying while bound down there, if you even can bind there.

[Daldolma]

When I quit your average higher end druid had around 30k hp's, now they got around 40k. So with expanded mana / hp regeneration and way way bigger HP / mana pools, the manastone should be better than ever, right? Never ever ever never in all my time of playing a druid, with other high end druids, have I seen a druid port out to Karana or something to use a manastone then gate back. Now if I got to port a cleric out too, so he can make use of it? It triples the mana cost.

No way is it useful enough, not for a druid. Not to mention the danger of being in a deep dungeon and taking the chance of dying while bound down there, if you even can bind there.

No -- with expanded mana regeneration, the manastone becomes useless. What makes the manastone so awesome is the fact that max mana regen through Velious is garbage. There is no flowing thought or AAs or anything of the like. It takes for-the-fuck-ever to med from OOM to full. And when you're porting out clerics, it would typically be in raid or grouped situations, when druid mana means dick anyway. Clerics are all-important.

I don't know what eras you played in, but porting out for manastone usage is literally an every-day strategy in Kunark and Velious. Both for soloing and for raiding.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Well I guess that explains it. If you had it your way they'd be worth a million, too bad their not and never will be (actually some servers on live they may go for this much, but no one gives a shit about them). For a guy who played a druid for 8 years on live, they were pretty much worthless for my class for that whole duration afaic (I did not play in classic).

It takes 600 hp's away for the cost of mana just to port / gate back if you're counting clicks on the stone and all the "free mana" you get from it (not to mention the mana cost to keep perma chloro / regrowth going). It just isn't worth it unless you can use it on the spot while hunting / quading / grouping where you can instantly sit right back down letting life regen faster.

Now for use on classic? It's great, I love it. As for other classes and their usefulness? I can't say. I guess I could port a cleric out and keep healing him over and over and over so he can get a full bar then gate back, sure would be awesome for him, yea I bet. Or the Wizard epic clicks... But as for a Druid who you say it's so essential for? I don't think so.

Apparently you think I am trying to talk up the price so I can sell mine. That would be incorrect. Perhaps you would like to ponder this item:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5526

This conversation will not affect the long-term value of manastones. Manastones are not about fashion but function. If you do not think it will be worthwhile for a druid leveling from 50 to 60 to port out, stone down and gate back, then... don't do it. I will be. So will the other druids winning the leveling race. Perhaps that is not important to you. That's not what this discussion is about.

Manastones are rare and useful. Demand will drive up the price. If you don't want one, don't buy one, but your irritation and implications will not lower the price.

[Slax]

No -- with expanded mana regeneration, the manastone becomes useless. What makes the manastone so awesome is the fact that max mana regen through Velious is garbage. There is no flowing thought or AAs or anything of the like. It takes for-the-fuck-ever to med from OOM to full. And when you're porting out clerics, it would typically be in raid or grouped situations, when druid mana means dick anyway. Clerics are all-important.

I don't know what eras you played in, but porting out for manastone usage is literally an every-day strategy in Kunark and Velious. Both for soloing and for raiding.

Druids / Wizards / Clerics do this now while raiding the planes? And even with expanded flowing thought, the manstone is still instant clicky! If it's so useful that still beat's any amount of flowing thought of mana you get per 3 second tic. And porting / gating around is even less of a drop in the bucket, right?

Seems to me with your reasoning the manastone should never ever be useless, no matter how much flowing thought you have. Once the nostalgia of actually owning a manastone wears off, most people will sell em at a loss to what they originally paid for it.

If you don't want one, don't buy one, but your irritation and implications will not lower the price.

I have one, and right now it's awesome. Come Kunark tho .. If people are paying 250k+? Bet your sweet ass mine will be the first up for sale. And you linked some circle click pants? I thought it was gonna be a link to the elder's BP which is a little closer than some skyshrine faction quest pants for an expansion that's who-knows how long away from now, 2 years? heh.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Druids / Wizards / Clerics do this now while raiding the planes? And even with expanded flowing thought, the manstone is still instant clicky! If it's so useful that still beat's any amount of flowing thought of mana you get per 3 second tic. And porting / gating around is even less of a drop in the bucket, right?

Seems to me with your reasoning the manastone should never ever be useless, no matter how much flowing thought you have. Once the nostalgia of actually owning a manastone wears off, most people will sell em at a loss to what they originally paid for it.

I think you're smart enough to work out the math for yourself and figure out why this argument is a non-sequitur. People aren't porting their clerics out of the planes after wipes because the guilds whose clerics have manastones typically don't wipe except in sky, where keys are a much greater concern than mana recovery.

[Slax]

These guilds don't typically wipe because these 10+ year old encounters are trivial and have been beaten to death hundreds of thousands of times by now. Which will also be the case in Kunark and Velious.

[Noselacri]

Isn't it impossible to bind almost anywhere that this might be worthwhile? I'm pretty sure you can't bind in just about any dungeon or raid zone. That would limit its use to druids and wizards who are soloing outdoors. It's not as if most clerics are going to spend countless hours in Wakening Lands grouped with a porter.

[Alawen Everywhere]

These guilds don't typically wipe because these 10+ year old encounters are trivial and have been beaten to death hundreds of thousands of times by now. Which will also be the case in Kunark and Velious.

Wipes are the only time clerics currently end up low mana currently outside Sky. I would speculate that zones like VP, Kael, Skyshrine and ToV will be different. Believe what you wish, this discussion is not going anywhere and I've said my piece and I respectfully withdraw. My manastones are not for sale.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Isn't it impossible to bind almost anywhere that this might be worthwhile? I'm pretty sure you can't bind in just about any dungeon or raid zone. That would limit its use to druids and wizards who are soloing outdoors. It's not as if most clerics are going to spend countless hours in Wakening Lands grouped with a porter.

Oh, the glory of Project 1999.

[Slax]

My manastones are not for sale.

PLURAL??


haha, that really explains it now ;p

[Alawen Everywhere]

PLURAL??


haha, that really explains it now ;p

I have a 50 druid and a 50 cleric. Your implied argument that my opinions are disingenuous is unnecessarily insulting. This is not rants and flames and I am not a liar. As I already stated, I never had the camp. I paid 28K for my first manastone and 35K for my second and I regret neither expenditure. Why would I strip my characters of a powerful ability that I worked very hard to acquire?

I will likely sell my cleric's rubicite breastplate before Kunark in anticipation of a superior regeneration item. If I were going to try to manipulate a market, that is the one that would be in my interest to pump and dump.

It would cost you little to consider statements like mine at face value and treat other players with respect.