Ancient Cyclops in Sro

[Sancta]

Hello, my character name is Tenderle, a level 44 bard. I have been camping the AC in Sro for 3 days (or 20 hours total). There is a timed PH and there is an actual precise method of spawning this mob. Since he only spawns at night, you can get attempts per in-game night if you kill the PH at certain times.

Today, I was able to spawn the AC and engage it while it was at 100% hp. Thinking I had first engage, I proceeded to kill it. I knew the exact time it was going to spawn and was even ready for it with a Terrorantula I was going to charm onto the AC.

Eunomia the GM later informed me that I was not first to engage and henceforth my Ring of the Ancients was given to the person with first engage. This person just happened to run by the zone and engage first. It was Meltan from <Necropolis>, a 31 Wizard who petitioned and got the Ring of the Ancients.

I understand that this spawn is considered a FFA, but why doesn't the person who spent 20 hours to get the AC to spawn be considered camping the AC? There is a legit way to get it to spawn and it is extremely precise. It's on a timer and he even spawns in the same small area of the desert.

It seems like it could easily be considered a camp since there is an entire non-random and precise method to spawn him in a certain area within the desert. There is a specific PH and it's not every mob in the desert, nor is it even every humanoid mob in the desert.

Thoughts?

[Thana8088]

In the past, GMs have stated (to me, first-hand) that "outdoor zones have no camps", so it's purely First To Engage (FTE).

Truly sucks, and I'm sorry for your misfortune.

[baalzy]

While I feel for you, because the AC doesn't pop in 1 exact spot anymore, it is no longer a static camp.

Same thing with any of the named on the forager cycle or Quillmane. They're pretty precise and easy to predict where they'll spawn, but they're roaming mobs and are FFA regardless of who put the effort into spawning them.

THere are often times code of honor where someone won't take one of these mobs if someone else is actively engaged in popping them, but that isn't any kind of enforced rule.

I'm surprised (well not really) the wizard didn't tell you he had first engage while you were killing it, giving you a chance to remove agro and force him to fight it (I strongly suspect a lvl 31 wiz would have difficulty against the AC solo). I also wasn't aware that the staff enforced first to engage rules in non-raid situations in such a way where they forfeited or transfered loot.

[Kyden]

I have NEVER heard of this happening on Red.

[Wrench]

Same thing with any of the named on the forager cycle or Quillmane. They're pretty precise and easy to predict where they'll spawn, but they're roaming mobs and are FFA regardless of who put the effort into spawning them.

perfect examples

In the past, GMs have stated (to me, first-hand) that "outdoor zones have no camps", so it's purely First To Engage (FTE).

and no

[forensic]

That really sucks, sorry about that.

Sounds like Meltan <Necropolis> knew exactly what he was doing in hitting this mob first and then letting you kill it. He would not have been able to kill it, camp it, or spawn it himself, but this way he gets you to spawn it for him, camp it for him, kill it for him, AND he gets all the loot and you get nothing.

Really sorry that you got fucked over like this. But you gotta expect it in the game of EQ. Getting rule fucked by GMs and scammers like this really is part of the classic experience. There is no way to avoid it other than learning to rule fuck other people first, before they can rule fuck you.

Also... figure out who the GMs are, make friends with them, and get them to teach you their interpretations of the rules BEFORE you get rule fucked. Also gotta keep a list of the GMs and a record of how they apply the rules, who they are friends with, etc. The PvP meta-game is all about relationships and personalities. Sounds like Meltan <Necropolis> beat you at the meta game.

[Thana8088]

and no

Care to elaborate? Because Ambrotos really, truly DID say that to our group in CoM (of all places).

[Wrench]

Care to elaborate? Because Ambrotos really, truly DID say that to our group in CoM (of all places).

apples and oranges

if you dont get the diff between campin ac in oot, and campin moat in com, its not worth my time to try and explain

[Thana8088]

apples and oranges

if you dont get the diff between campin ac in oot, and campin moat in com, its not worth my time to try and explain

um...did you notice that part where he said South Ro?

[Lojik]

Care to elaborate? Because Ambrotos really, truly DID say that to our group in CoM (of all places).

I believe it's roaming NPC's in outdoors zones are FTE

[Oleris]

Hello, my character name is Tenderle, a level 44 bard. I have been camping the AC in Sro for 3 days (or 20 hours total). There is a timed PH and there is an actual precise method of spawning this mob. Since he only spawns at night, you can get attempts per in-game night if you kill the PH at certain times.

Today, I was able to spawn the AC and engage it while it was at 100% hp. Thinking I had first engage, I proceeded to kill it. I knew the exact time it was going to spawn and was even ready for it with a Terrorantula I was going to charm onto the AC.

Eunomia the GM later informed me that I was not first to engage and henceforth my Ring of the Ancients was given to the person with first engage. This person just happened to run by the zone and engage first. It was Meltan from <Necropolis>, a 31 Wizard who petitioned and got the Ring of the Ancients.

I understand that this spawn is considered a FFA, but why doesn't the person who spent 20 hours to get the AC to spawn be considered camping the AC? There is a legit way to get it to spawn and it is extremely precise. It's on a timer and he even spawns in the same small area of the desert.

It seems like it could easily be considered a camp since there is an entire non-random and precise method to spawn him in a certain area within the desert. There is a specific PH and it's not every mob in the desert, nor is it even every humanoid mob in the desert.

Thoughts?


they changed the camp in S. ro where it is kill a mob at a certain time no longer works. It is now a random spawn since the last patch.

[Korrupt]

aoe whole zone a few times at night ez to get, sucks that a gimp 31 wiz petitioned for the ring after putting in the time though

[baalzy]

aoe whole zone a few times at night ez to get, sucks that a gimp 31 wiz petitioned for the ring after putting in the time though

This is the big thing. I highly doubt that wiz would have won the fight (they MIGHT have, but I bet they'd go OOM from resisted snares/roots/nukes long before AC died).

[Sancta]

they changed the camp in S. ro where it is kill a mob at a certain time no longer works. It is now a random spawn since the last patch.

No, the timer really isn't random at all.

Check here:

http://cdn.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129564

It's the developer that actually made the change. The only thing that's random is the location, and it's not even that random, it's a certain section of the desert.

[Kafter]

Same thing happened to me. Spent around 15 hours running around, with no sow mind you, camping the ph's for some sham just passing through to kill it and then link it in ooc. The whole situation sucks but it is the rules. I decided to just save up plat and moved to the oot spawn.

Good luck to you

[Wenuven]

All the rules considered, it's still mind-boggling to me that a GM would intervene to take the item away from you and give it to a level 31 wizard who clearly has no ability to camp the item on his own.

Either we're not getting the full story or the GM just doesn't like you. I get that there are "rules" that have to be "enforced", but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this was a bad judgement call.

[Crawdad]

Hmm, had good experiences with Meltan, he sat around with me while I was camping some Goblin Gazughi Rings and just chatted and helped clear trash until I got one. Seems pretty chill whenever I talk to him.

If he lucked out, and it was a low-level AC (He can be as low as 32 per the wiki?), at 31 he might've been able to solo it, albeit slowly. Isn't that the perk of the Sro? Sro AC is in the low 30s, whereas the OoT AC is ~39?

Also, If you're 44, and still set to camp Jboots, you should really try the OoT camp. Static spawn, nothing to worry about as far as running around... Also I'm not sure why you bothered using a charmed pet on AC to begin with.. you should've just chant kited or fear kited him far into the Sro forest, away from prying eyes.

Sorry that you didn't get your jboots, I know how those long camps can make you wanna tear yer eyes out.

[Oleris]

No, the timer really isn't random at all.

Check here:

http://cdn.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129564

It's the developer that actually made the change. The only thing that's random is the location, and it's not even that random, it's a certain section of the desert.

no, was changed last patch, not last year.

[Tuffpuppy]

This is one of the dumbest rulings I've heard on on these servers. If that wizard was alone he wasn't going to kill the AC, there's no reason to give this guy anything. PetitionQuest rules again, ain't classic.

[Sancta]

no, was changed last patch, not last year.

Right, the patch that his was updated on was a month later in 2014, in January. There is a patch note that references this.

I got the AC to spawn the exact time I meant it to spawn. It's a 30 minute timer.

[Wrench]

This is one of the dumbest rulings I've heard on on these servers. If that wizard was alone he wasn't going to kill the AC, there's no reason to give this guy anything. PetitionQuest rules again, ain't classic.

it does seem like there should be a rule in place for this kind of thing

if you dont contest that it was your fte, via tells, shout, or continued damage, you dont get the loot reversed

[sulpher01]

it does seem like there should be a rule in place for this kind of thing

if you dont contest that it was your fte, via tells, shout, or continued damage, you dont get the loot reversed

He did contest it, by petitioning.. lol

In the past, GMs have stated (to me, first-hand) that "outdoor zones have no camps", so it's purely First To Engage (FTE).

Truly sucks, and I'm sorry for your misfortune.

This servers so funny.. rules change depending on which gm you get.

[Sancta]

Hmm, had good experiences with Meltan.

You know I'm not trying to slander his name. According to the rules he got it fair and square. I just personally think it should be considered camp since because of the method it takes to spawn the AC.

[baalzy]

The big difference here (and it's spelled out in the stickied rules) is that the AC in SRO is no longer a 100% static pop.

It may pop under the same conditions (kill X ph during Y time) but it doesn't pop in the exact same spot (even if it's a small area, it's not the same spot). This classifies it as a 'roaming' mob and it's not subject to claimed camp rules.

[rollin5k]

First ac of the night is totally random.it either spawns or spawns a ph in a random spot in the dez. So no you didn't spawn it unless you killed the first ph then i think it has a chance to spawn again right before 8 am. but gotta find that random ph right away

[Sancta]

First ac of the night is totally random.it either spawns or spawns a ph in a random spot in the dez. So no you didn't spawn it unless you killed the first ph then i think it has a chance to spawn again right before 8 am. but gotta find that random ph right away

It totally isn't though, I was getting the exact PH's at the exact 30.66 timer that's stated on the post:

http://cdn.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129564

You can even see the developer saying that it was changed to that and a subsequent patch note in January where the update happened.

The only thing that's random is the location, which makes it a FFA spawn. The location isn't even all across the desert, I was finding the PH in specific 6 or 7 spots right in the same area.

[rollin5k]

Nope

[rollin5k]

That 30 min spawn might still be there. But it doesn't matterif you dance naked in you're tinfoil hat , when night comes he spawns in the dez in a random spot or doesn't spawn and spawns a ph

[Derubael]

Non-static spawns in outdoor zones, for the most part, are always FTE. This includes the AC in SRo. "Non-static" means it spawns in a random location.

The exception to this rule is that any mob can be camped so long as you are on the spawn and ready to engage the moment it spawns.

Yes, the AC still spawns on a timer, but it's location is no longer static (it spawns in a random location). This holds true for mobs like Quillmane and Pzijninin (however you spell that damn necro's name).

All of that being said, you can absolutely camp outdoor mobs. Great examples of this are the orc camps in EC or the dervish camps in North Ro. Both can be camped, and are outdoors. The CSR staff no longer makes any attempt to 'define' camps. We assess disputes on a per-case basis, and will outline boundaries for groups where necessary. For the most part, we attempt to stay consistent with player recognized camps.

We do reserve the right to assign you to wherever we feel is best for the current situation. We will always make every attempt to assign mobs in a way that makes sense and is in-line with player expectations. That being said, as always, if you feel you are being treated unfairly, PM Lead-CSR GM Sirken regarding your dispute. If your issue is with Sirken, PM Rogean or Nilbog.

We've instructed our Guides to use their best judgement when dealing with camp disputes. They've also been told that if they arrive at a dispute and find one player to be harassing the opposing party, acting excessively rude, or arguing with CSR-staff, to remove that player from the camp. If both parties are acting like ass-hats, you might both be removed from the camp (while rare, this has definitely happened). Two-wrongs don't make a right, and just because you feel someone stole your camp doesn't mean you can start acting like a child who had his candy taken away!

[Byrjun]

Yes, the AC still spawns on a timer, but it's location is no longer static (it spawns in a random location). This holds true for mobs like Quillmane and Pzijninin (however you spell that damn necro's name).

I feel like this statement is just opening up new issues. Quillmane is 100% campable. The way 99% of people do it is to have 1 person sit at each spawn point while another person spawns Quillmane. Saying that Quillmane is FTE is just going to get assholes to compete with people already sitting at the spawn point. If Quillmane is FTE you might as well make the frenzied ghoul or King Tranix FTE.

[Haynar]

If Quillmane is FTE you might as well make the frenzied ghoul or King Tranix FTE.
And for statements like this, just to be inflamatory, does that mean we should just ban you now?

This is not RnF.

Watch it.

H

[Derubael]

I feel like this statement is just opening up new issues. Quillmane is 100% campable. The way 99% of people do it is to have 1 person sit at each spawn point while another person spawns Quillmane. Saying that Quillmane is FTE is just going to get assholes to compete with people already sitting at the spawn point. If Quillmane is FTE you might as well make the frenzied ghoul or King Tranix FTE.

I actually left something out of that post, edited to reflect that.

Edit: Don't argue with Haynar.

[Byrjun]

And for statements like this, just to be inflamatory, does that mean we should just ban you now?

This is not RnF.

Watch it.

H

You're gonna ban me for pointing out an inconsistency in the rules? No one was being inflammatory until this post.

I was only giving examples. The frenzied ghoul has 3 spawn points. Quillmane has 3 spawn points. You can sit and wait for either mob to appear. I don't get why one situation is campable and the other is FTE. That was my point/concern.

[Wrench]

I was only giving examples. The frenzied ghoul has 3 spawn points. Quillmane has 3 spawn points. You can sit and wait for either mob to appear. I don't get why one situation is campable and the other is FTE. That was my point/concern.

frenzied spawns indoors, on a timer, and does not wander


quillmane does none of those

[wycca]

frenzied spawns indoors, on a timer, and does not wander


quillmane does none of those

Quillimane spawns on one of three non-random locations. If you're camping on those locations holding the spawn, then the roaming part doesn't matter.

I'm not sure how you could consider Quillimane un-campable.

[Byrjun]

frenzied spawns indoors, on a timer, and does not wander


quillmane does none of those

I just don't see how any of this is relevant. If Quillmane is wandering around then sure, it's FTE. But Durubael said things can be campable in outdoor zones (ie. orc camps), and whether something has a set timer or not shouldn't matter. Is Stormfeather in Velious really going to be FTE? That's going to be a total mess, with 50 people there just jav spamming a level 30 mob.

The reason I raise concern is that posts like these just fuel young rule lawyers who exist only to misinterpret server rules to their advantage. I can't tell you how many times someone has told me that they would petition me because I stepped away from my PC for a minute to go to the bathroom, misquoting the AFK camping rule. I will guarantee you that at least one player will be incentivized to go squat on someone else's Quillmane spawn and attempt to FTE it despite the efforts of others because this post was made.

Another thing to consider is that Quillmane is a triggered spawn. It should belong to the person(s) that triggered it. Imagine if a group just FTE'ed some poor Shaman's Rak`Ashiir after he was spawned with the final epic turn in. And hey, City of Mist is outdoors too...

[Wrench]

Quillimane spawns on one of three non-random locations. If you're camping on those locations holding the spawn, then the roaming part doesn't matter.

I'm not sure how you could consider Quillimane un-campable.

its a huge dick move, but my understanding is it not campable

so whoever is sitting on the spawn point automatically gets the 'camp' if he spawns? shouldnt you only get it if your group killed the mob that spawned him? what if some random guy was the one that actually killed the calf that spawned him? and a group of 4 or 5 automatically has more right to the camp than the single or duo there before them?

[Byrjun]

its a huge dick move, but my understanding is it not campable

This is why you need to consider who benefits from a particular rule. If a rule serves to benefit the jerks and the trolls on the server, and negatively affects normal players who are just trying to get loot and advance, it's probably a bad rule.

and a group of 4 or 5 automatically has more right to the camp than the single or duo there before them?

No one is making this argument, but 1 or 2 people can't fully camp Quillmane. If one person is just spawning Quillmanes, then Quillmane would begin to wander and should probably be considered FTE. If 1 person is spawning Quillmanes and 1 person is sitting on 1/3 of the camps, then they would effectively be camping that one spawn point and the other 2 would be FFA (as Quillmane would wander). If you have 1+ people spawning Quillmanes, and 1 person on each of the 3 spawn points, they should all be considered camped as long as they're being engaged immediately as they spawn.

I think this should all pretty much be common sense.

[Clark]

And for statements like this, just to be inflamatory, does that mean we should just ban you now?

This is not RnF.

Watch it.

H

http://i.imgur.com/hb737QK.png

[loramin]

If you have 1+ people spawning Quillmanes, and 1 person on each of the 3 spawn points, they should all be considered camped as long as they're being engaged immediately as they spawn.

The exception to this rule is that any mob can be camped so long as you are on the spawn and ready to engage the moment it spawns.

Byrjun I don't see the controversy, Derubael seems to have covered that exact case.

And for statements like this, just to be inflamatory, does that mean we should just ban you now?

Haynar could you please clarify what was so inflammatory about his post? I'm not arguing, I'm seriously asking because I don't want to get banned, and I couldn't see anything unreasonable, disrespectful, or otherwise in violation of the server rules in that post. We are allowed to have disagreeing opinions outside of RnF right?

[Clark]

I'm seriously asking because I don't want to get banned

http://i.imgur.com/wej8Hdl.jpg

[Tasslehofp99]

IMO if the person who had FTE couldn't possibly kill it on his own (since he had no help in zone) without kiting the mob around (stalling) they are not deserving of these boots. This should've been considered before transferring the boots from the person who actually camped it to a 31 wiz who wouldn't stand a chance at killing this mob without stalling for help to arrive.


During any other FTE (under normal circumstances) situation, the person who gets FTE must be able to kill the mob immediately. Otherwise this is stalling, and against the rules. I don't understand why a 31 wizard was awarded Jboots on a mob that he couldn't possibly kill on his own.

This is so fucked up, sorry that you got robbed OP.

[loramin]

http://i.imgur.com/wej8Hdl.jpg

I'm just saying, when the head developer starts threatening people with bans and I can't understand why, I want to understand why. I say argumentative stuff too from time to time, and if I'm going to keep my nose clean I need to know where to draw the line.

[Derubael]

IMO if the person who had FTE couldn't possibly kill it on his own (since he had no help in zone) without kiting the mob around (stalling) they are not deserving of these boots. This should've been considered before transferring the boots from the person who actually camped it to a 31 wiz who wouldn't stand a chance at killing this mob without stalling for help to arrive.


During any other FTE (under normal circumstances) situation, the person who gets FTE must be able to kill the mob immediately. Otherwise this is stalling, and against the rules. I don't understand why a 31 wizard was awarded Jboots on a mob that he couldn't possibly kill on his own.

This is so fucked up, sorry that you got robbed OP.

This only applies to raid encounters. What you're describing only applies to indefinitely occupying a mob in order to keep others from killing it.

The rule you're describing would mean that bards couldn't AE kite mobs. As long as you intend to kill the mob, and are actively doing so, you can take just about as long as you'd like to kill it.

Edit: A level 31 could conceivably kill the AC, though I would say that's about the cutoff level for this mob.

[Bboboo]

This whole situation just seems a bit fucked if you ask me.

[Tasslehofp99]

I think at lvl 41 my highly twinked mage was JUST able to kill the AC; I highly doubt a lvl 31 wizard would have even enough mana to kill this mob. That is assuming that their nukes would even land at all, do wizards get lure type nukes at this level?

AC is listed as ranging from 32-41. I've never had it con lower than white until level 40-41 on my mage, so this level range seems legit. I just highly doubt that a 31 wizard could ever kill AC without help. Their nukes would mostly be resisted (since it would con DEAD red, and even green cons now resist nukes with a fair amount of regularity) and if not...they would run OOM long before the 2500-2800~ or so hps that this mob has are gone. This situation is absolutely fucked.


Oh well, grats some undeserving 31 wizard on jboots. Poor OP got robbed; I'm glad that I don't mess with the Sro AC camp, if this happened to me I would be furious. Shame that the OP didn't just stand back and let that wizard get fucked up, then kill AC himself. Being a bard, I would've just charmed it and told that wizard to go fuck himself.

[Byrjun]

This might be the first time I've ever agreed with Tasslehof.

[titanshub]

http://i34.tinypic.com/11v2n8l.jpg

[jahman]

I think at lvl 41 my highly twinked mage was JUST able to kill the AC; I highly doubt a lvl 31 wizard would have even enough mana to kill this mob. That is assuming that their nukes would even land at all, do wizards get lure type nukes at this level?

AC is listed as ranging from 32-41. I've never had it con lower than white until level 40-41 on my mage, so this level range seems legit. I just highly doubt that a 31 wizard could ever kill AC without help. Their nukes would mostly be resisted (since it would con DEAD red, and even green cons now resist nukes with a fair amount of regularity) and if not...they would run OOM long before the 2500-2800~ or so hps that this mob has are gone. This situation is absolutely fucked.


Oh well, grats some undeserving 31 wizard on jboots. Poor OP got robbed; I'm glad that I don't mess with the Sro AC camp, if this happened to me I would be furious. Shame that the OP didn't just stand back and let that wizard get fucked up, then kill AC himself. Being a bard, I would've just charmed it and told that wizard to go fuck himself.

The sro ac is around level 32. I just killed it easily with my 39 wizard last week.

But a 31 wiz? Not alone, unless both highly twinked and lucky. Cyclops have higher hp than average mobs.

Sympathies to the bard.

[Rooj]

This thread has me speechless. And sad. :(

[applesauce25r624]

Hmm, had good experiences with Meltan

confirmed in cahoots with Meltan

[applesauce25r624]

You know I'm not trying to slander his name

no shit. slander (libel) involves lying ( -_-)"

[Sororf]

IMO if the person who had FTE couldn't possibly kill it on his own (since he had no help in zone) without kiting the mob around (stalling) they are not deserving of these boots. This should've been considered before transferring the boots from the person who actually camped it to a 31 wiz who wouldn't stand a chance at killing this mob without stalling for help to arrive.


During any other FTE (under normal circumstances) situation, the person who gets FTE must be able to kill the mob immediately. Otherwise this is stalling, and against the rules. I don't understand why a 31 wizard was awarded Jboots on a mob that he couldn't possibly kill on his own.

This is so fucked up, sorry that you got robbed OP.

[Llodd]

A couple of questions spring to mind. Did the wizard in question talk to you to let you know he had engaged the Mob and would you kindly desist from kill stealing from him? If not you have to ask why not.

And why is there no room for common sense?
_

[Sororf]

This thread has me speechless. And sad. :(


Whoa! Atomos! Long time man!

[brecon]

If the AC had 100% xp when you engaged, how had the Wizard done damage? I thought the rule was that you had to have done damage to get FTE, and not simply snare. Unless it had already regened, in which case it seems like the wizard was stalling.

Also agree with Lodd - if the mob was 100% hp and didn't contact you before you killed it, then this stinks.

[Bboboo]

If the AC had 100% xp when you engaged, how had the Wizard done damage? I thought the rule was that you had to have done damage to get FTE, and not simply snare. Unless it had already regened, in which case it seems like the wizard was stalling.

Also agree with Lodd - if the mob was 100% hp and didn't contact you before you killed it, then this stinks.

This is why this all seems fucky.

100%Hp Mob when bard attacks it, no mention of it attacking someone else or running towards someone

Wizard just silently petitions (or so we are told) to GMs to which loot is handed over later.

Can't say for sure that a 31 Wiz could of Solod it without actually seeing someone do it. However if the Wizard was level 1 would the situation be different? If so is the level of the player just a judgement call for the situation?

Obviously not getting the full story on this one, yet it is the Wizards loot, no matter how shitty this seems.

[Lazie]

So all I need to know to make a decision is... Did the wizard have a dozen red wood wands ? Because if he did it would be very easy for him to camp that AC at 31. Not that the OP doesn't have a point about it being bad etiquette by the wizard if he was indeed camping it. All we have is just the OP's word that he was camping it and got screwed at this point. When that wizard could have thought he was camping it too preparing to kill it.

[Ravager]

This is just one of those camps that you should know going into it you're going to have an even or better chance at getting screwed, because the rules allow for it. I camped SRo AC for all of my alts and as soon as it was patched I knew this kind of crap would happen so never bothered after the patch.

[Mockba1980]

Care to elaborate? Because Ambrotos really, truly DID say that to our group in CoM (of all places).

I remember that like it was yesterday.. :(

[Dany]

Simple : Have a GM spawn a random AC and have that lvl 31 wiz try to kill it. If he dies trying to solo it, take away his ring/boot and give it to the bard.

Easy .

P.S. I do think the bard should get the AC ring. I've seen that bard camp that AC for like 3days in a row.

[mr_jon3s]

Simple : Have a GM spawn a random AC and have that lvl 31 wiz try to kill it. If he dies trying to solo it, take away his ring/boot and give it to the bard.

Easy .

P.S. I do think the bard should get the AC ring. I've seen that bard camp that AC for like 3days in a row.

This Trial by Combat. If the wiz can kill the AC by himself he gets the ring if not it goes to the bard. Whats to stop people from tagging open camp mobs that they might not be able to kill, let someone else kill itthen complain to a gm/guide that they FTE the mob and should get the loot.

[Southpaws]

This is just one of those camps that you should know going into it you're going to have an even or better chance at getting screwed, because the rules allow for it.

This is exactly the way it is which absolutely blows. This camp is a great way for casuals to not only get their jboots, but to get them 10 or 15 levels before getting in line at OOT. Oh wait, in theory that's how it should work, but it usually ends up like this. You sit in Sro completely alone until around 8pm. At this point be prepared for about 2-3 50+ druids and wizards to port in with an occasional bard. They will then continue to run around the zone like they've been there all day. The chances of the lvl 40 melee, who has been apparently not camping the mob for the last couple hours, engaging the mob before the 5 other high levels with sow/track/selos/etc. is pretty slim to none.

[Derubael]

Oh wow, this isn't even the encounter I was thinking of. Couple things:

OP paints a picture of being right there ready to engage the target and someone sneakily sniped it out from under him right after it spawned. Encounter log shows something different:

Spawned: Thu Sep 25, 2014; 20:31:37
Meltan Engages: 20:33:56 (over 2 minutes after it spawned)
Then a Druid engages at 20:34:37, Druid is in the same guild as the wizard.
Finally, at 20:35:16, OP engages the AC. (nearly 4 minutes after it spawns)

After that, 2 other people pile on, including another Wizard who does almost as much damage as the bard. No one is grouped. Even if this had been a legitimate camp as opposed to an "uncampable" mob, waiting 4 minutes to engage a spawn is pushing it.

OP clearly knew the mob was engaged, as it had been chasing after another player for almost 2 minutes at that point. Do I have the wrong encounter log? Because this is the only one I see with your name on it attacking an AC.

I also don't see any reimbursement requests to have the ring moved to Meltan, nor do I see any delete/move requests in CSR chat. OP, if Eunomia told you to hold onto that ring and not turn it in I would continue to do so, but I'm starting to think this was a troll. I feel dirty inside.

As a side note, when I was still a player I killed a white con AC at level 35 on a wizard in rags, so I can see a 31 wizard killing one of the lower level AC spawns (Wiki level range is incorrect, though I can't provide an exact number as per CSR policy).

[zanderklocke]

This reminds me of one time I was duoing the Quillmane camp, and after a very long time of not finding Quillmane, I found a low to mid 20s ranger kiting Quillmane around. He spent 20 minutes kiting the mob around while sowing, medding, and attempting to snare Quillmane/shoot arrows. This ranger told me he would tag Quillmane every time he saw it on track regardless of whether or not we were killing place holders.

What a fucker.

If you don't think the person is high enough to kill the mob, just let them die or zone it.

[Crawdad]

Oh wow, this isn't even the encounter I was thinking of. Couple things:

OP paints a picture of being right there ready to engage the target and someone sneakily sniped it out from under him right after it spawned. Encounter log shows something different:

Spawned: Thu Sep 25, 2014; 20:31:37
Meltan Engages: 20:33:56 (over 2 minutes after it spawned)
Then a Druid engages at 20:34:37, Druid is in the same guild as the wizard.
Finally, at 20:35:16, OP engages the AC. (nearly 4 minutes after it spawns)

After that, 2 other people pile on, including another Wizard who does almost as much damage as the bard. No one is grouped. Even if this had been a legitimate camp as opposed to an "uncampable" mob, waiting 4 minutes to engage a spawn is pushing it.

OP clearly knew the mob was engaged, as it had been chasing after another player for almost 2 minutes at that point. Do I have the wrong encounter log? Because this is the only one I see with your name on it attacking an AC.

I also don't see any reimbursement requests to have the ring moved to Meltan, nor do I see any delete/move requests in CSR chat. OP, if Eunomia told you to hold onto that ring and not turn it in I would continue to do so, but I'm starting to think this was a troll. I feel dirty inside.

As a side note, when I was still a player I killed a white con AC at level 35 on a wizard in rags, so I can see a 31 wizard killing one of the lower level AC spawns (Wiki level range is incorrect, though I can't provide an exact number as per CSR policy).

Soo wait. Did Meltan get the ring or not?

Waiting on naysayers replies. Sure was a lot of "The SKY is falling!" going on about camping mobs before this.

[Widan]

If you're FTE how long can you kite a mob around without killing it though?

[Laugher]

Did not read but thought maybe it would be worthwhile to sticky a thread containing all links to ac disputes and conduct questions :p

[Sirken]

If you're FTE how long can you kite a mob around without killing it though?

if they have it engaged, you should let them finish it. if they cant kill it by themselves let them die, or make sure u take plenty of evidence showing the situation, because you'l most likely get petitioned for KSing

[forensic]

So to all the budding rule lawyers... what's the lesson in this thread?

When you're a lawyer, the most important thing of all is to know how the judges work. The judges in this situation seem to be mainly interested in who aggro'd what first and how many minutes elapsed. They piece together their view of the situation based on those minutes.

I'm guessing it's not easy to query the logs they are looking at. It's probably pretty tedious and so they've created rules to simplify what they need to check. If the server does keep track of things like how long a player has been camping in a zone, or the /locs of players as they move through the zone, it's not a high priority to check those datapoints probably because it would be a massive pain in the ass and a waste of time.

So anyway FTE aka aggroing is everything. Making something spawn by killing placeholders is absolutely a sucker's game because it's so hard to prove that you were the one camping it and doing all the work to make it spawn.

Since FTE is given all the weight, the ideal strategy is indicated: camp stuff broadly. Don't camp 1 mob for 20 hours. Instead, get to a higher level, get a go-to travel helper, and learn to check every camp. If the spawn is up, kill it. If it's down move on to the next one.

Sitting at one spawn for 20 hours is for suckers. You're just asking to get kill stealed because all that matters is FTE.

The pro player here would quite simply know all the valuable spawns in all of the zones, and as they pass through zones would check each one. When they see a spawn they engage immediately and hope for FTE. If the ruling goes your way, you got some great loot at cheap prices. If not, it's not much of a loss.

I've noticed a lot of 50+ players actually doing this. I was camping the Gaz Squire at level 17 and if I died or left the camp for any amount of time at all the placeholder or gaz squire would get killed by high levels who were just passing through the zone checking, not staying for more than 5 seconds. I also learned that when you camp something you can't be invis. My tendency was to want to use Dark Elf Hide to avoid getting aggro. But then the level 50s that pass through to check the spawn don't see me and claim innocence when they engage my mob.

Since I was killing mobs that were very close to my level I needed time to buff up, med, charm a pet, and carefully control the encounter. They could just run in and start bashing and kill the mob in 5 seconds. So the mob dies, I turn off invis, and the mob doesn't have any loot so the person says Oops sorry didn't see you there and runs off, since they were just passing through the zone anyway and don't actually want to camp this.

Anyway the lesson is that camping a single spawn is for suckers. Cast your net widely and camp tons of things at once. Know the timers they are on and return to check on them regularly. You may lose out every once in awhile but even if you do it was no big loss because your investment was low.

[Gimp]

FTE rules don't apply in indoor dungeons where actual camps can be established

[Rika]

But then the level 50s that pass through to check the spawn don't see me and claim innocence when they engage my mob.

I turn off invis, and the mob doesn't have any loot so the person says Oops sorry didn't see you there and runs off, since they were just passing through the zone anyway and don't actually want to camp this.



I actually done that before with the named ogre that drops the dark rust boots and bracer in TD. Poor DE was hidden and I didn't see her, I waited a couple mins to see if anyone killed it but I guess she was medding after killing Boomba. When I realised my mistake I just let her have the corpse.

But yeah, if I'm running through a zone where a named is I usually just check the camp/area and kill it if it appears unoccupied.

[forensic]

FTE rules don't apply in indoor dungeons where actual camps can be established

try proving you've been holding that camp when I have FTE on your mob and when I'm holding your item

I'll just claim I didn't see anyone at the camp. I'll imply that you may have been camping it but then you stopped camping it for the moment it took me to show up and kill your mob. Worst case scenario I just say it was an accident and I didn't see you there and I promise to CC next time. Pretty good odds I get to keep your item, and pretty good odds taht you won't even petition me in the first place cause you dont believe you'll get justice and dont want to wait around for however long it takes to get a response.

Bonus advantage to me if it happens during off hours or during a heavy-raid day where the raiders get all the GM attention.

In conclusion... I put in a very low investment for a low-moderate chance of keeping the item. You put in a high investment for a moderate chance of getting the item. Advantage goes to my strategy, I win at EverQuest.

[Crawdad]

try proving you've been holding that camp when I have FTE on your mob and when I'm holding your item

I'll just claim I didn't see anyone at the camp. I'll imply that you may have been camping it but then you stopped camping it for the moment it took me to show up and kill your mob. Worst case scenario I just say it was an accident and I didn't see you there and I promise to CC next time. Pretty good odds I get to keep your item, and pretty good odds taht you won't even petition me in the first place cause you dont believe you'll get justice and dont want to wait around for however long it takes to get a response.

Bonus advantage to me if it happens during off hours or during a heavy-raid day where the raiders get all the GM attention.

In conclusion... I put in a very low investment for a low-moderate chance of keeping the item. You put in a high investment for a moderate chance of getting the item. Advantage goes to my strategy, I win at EverQuest.

Or just be an adult and treat others with respect in this 15-year old elf simulator. You're really overthinking all of this...

[forensic]

Or just be an adult and treat others with respect in this 15-year old elf simulator.

adults don't rule fuck other adults?

In my experience it was adults doing most of the rule fucking in classic. The kids were more interested in having fun and didn't even think of stuff like that.

When people say "Treat others like an adult" as a euphemism for "don't fuck over other people" I wonder which world they live in where adults don't fuck over other people.

Adults do, by far, the most amount of this.

So anyway I think you should say, "Act like a kid and don't worry about winning pixels, just play the game to be immersed and make friends and have fun instead of playing to win all the time"

[Haynar]

try proving you've been holding that camp when I have FTE on your mob and when I'm holding your item

I'll just claim I didn't see anyone at the camp. I'll imply that you may have been camping it but then you stopped camping it for the moment it took me to show up and kill your mob. Worst case scenario I just say it was an accident and I didn't see you there and I promise to CC next time. Pretty good odds I get to keep your item, and pretty good odds taht you won't even petition me in the first place cause you dont believe you'll get justice and dont want to wait around for however long it takes to get a response.

Bonus advantage to me if it happens during off hours or during a heavy-raid day where the raiders get all the GM attention.

In conclusion... I put in a very low investment for a low-moderate chance of keeping the item. You put in a high investment for a moderate chance of getting the item. Advantage goes to my strategy, I win at EverQuest.
Thanks for posting your strategy. It will help resolve any disputes you may get involved in.

[forensic]

Thanks for posting your strategy. It will help resolve any disputes you may get involved in.

I won't make it to a high enough level to actually actualize my strategy anyway. I'll probably quit around level 34 when the game starts to turn into a really boring grind.

[Servellious]

Class c and class r AC imo

[Crawdad]

adults don't rule fuck other adults?

In my experience it was adults doing most of the rule fucking in classic. The kids were more interested in having fun and didn't even think of stuff like that.

When people say "Treat others like an adult" as a euphemism for "don't fuck over other people" I wonder which world they live in where adults don't fuck over other people.

Adults do, by far, the most amount of this.

So anyway I think you should say, "Act like a kid and don't worry about winning pixels, just play the game to be immersed and make friends and have fun instead of playing to win all the time"

http://m.wikihow.com/Act-Like-an-Adult

If you aren't following these then you're doing it wrong.

[forensic]

http://m.wikihow.com/Act-Like-an-Adult

If you aren't following these then you're doing it wrong.


#11. Play videogames that are meant for and primarily marketed to kids. Then tell the kids playing those videogames to "grow up" and "act like an adult" while they play their kiddie games.

Expecting people to act like an adult in a videogame is the biggest fucking contradiction in terms ever. Games are meant to be a time when you either are a kid who is BEING a kid, or for adults, a chance to ACT like a kid.

Here's my theory: people who tell other people to act like adults in videogames, themselves act like kids in reality. I bet the people who tend to do this tend to be more unemployed, more immature, less responsible, and so on than average. They act like adults in videogames because they don't know what it's like to do that IRL.

I have a place to act like an adult in... it's called every part of my life that isn't a videogame.

[Crawdad]

#11. Play videogames that are meant for and primarily marketed to kids. Then tell the kids playing those videogames to "grow up" and "act like an adult" while they play their kiddie games.

Expecting people to act like an adult in a videogame is the biggest fucking contradiction in terms ever. Games are meant to be a time when you either are a kid who is BEING a kid, or for adults, a chance to ACT like a kid.

Here's my theory: people who tell other people to act like adults in videogames, themselves act like kids in reality. I bet the people who tend to do this tend to be more unemployed, more immature, less responsible, and so on than average. They act like adults in videogames because they don't know what it's like to do that IRL.

I have a place to act like an adult in... it's called every part of my life that isn't a videogame.

You're breaking rules 3, 5 and 6.

[forensic]

I'm currently getting my Masters in Clinical counseling for children, let me know of you want some help working things out.

So we know for sure that you enjoy breaking rule #4 in that list of rules you posted, huh? What does that say about your emotional maturity that you get insulting in a video game discussion forum?

You want to be a in a position of power over children, so you can throw around "act like an adult!" whenever they play or act in a way you don't morally approve of. Remind me to never let you near my kids.

So much for unconditional positive regard.

[Crawdad]

So we know for sure that you enjoy breaking rule #4 in that list of rules you posted, huh? What does that say about your emotional maturity that you get insulting in a video game discussion forum?

You want to be a in a position of power over children, so you can throw around "act like an adult!" whenever they play or act in a way you don't morally approve of. Remind me to never let you near my kids.

So much for unconditional positive regard.

I apologize, that was a dickish thing to say. You seem far too invested in this adult v kid analogy, and a bit touchy on the insinuations of being a child, so I went for a cheap laugh.

You don't tell childen to act like an adult, by the way. You tell adults who are acting like children.

[forensic]

You're breaking rules 3, 5 and 6.

They aren't my rules. You're breaking rule 1, 2, 3, 4, and probably 10.

The difference is that... I don't acknowledge your rules. I'm not a hypocrite because I don't think your rules are how adults actually behave. I think your rules are sort of like what elementary school teachers tell to kids to control them--not for the benefit of the child.

You want to teach a child how to succeed in life? Teach them that adults, generally speaking, should never be trusted further than you can throw them. Especially in MMOs :P

[Crawdad]

They aren't my rules. You're breaking rule 1, 2, 3, 4, and probably 10.

The difference is that... I don't acknowledge your rules. I'm not a hypocrite because I don't think your rules are how adults actually behave. I think your rules are sort of like what elementary school teachers tell to kids to control them--not for the benefit of the child.

You want to teach a child how to succeed in life? Teach them that adults, generally speaking, should never be trusted further than you can throw them. Especially in MMOs :P

Kids are usually pretty understanding of the way the world Really is, especially the ones with problems. Adults have a hard time remembering how to treat one another when things don't go their way or a slight is perceived, doubly so when they feel entitled. I do agree with you there.

Its debatable that's how to be an adult... I have problems with 9 and 10. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to emulate them, especially in this little ~1,200 population world of ours.

Edit: I don't think there's a way to show children the depths of pixel-lust depravity short of a Reefer Maddness redux.

[forensic]

Kids are usually pretty understanding of the way the world Really is, especially the ones with problems. Adults have a hard time remembering how to treat one another when things don't go their way or a slight is perceived, doubly so when they feel entitled. I do agree with you there.

Its debatable that's how to be an adult... I have problems with 9 and 10. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to emulate them, especially in this little ~1,200 population world of ours.

Edit: I don't think there's a way to show children the depths of pixel-lust depravity short of a Reefer Maddness redux.

Here's your child psychology for you.

I played this game when I was 13 and it was so much fun... until Shining Force or The Mystical Order would show up with their twinks and rule fuck you out of some minor mid level thing you wanted.

The way that The Mystical Order on Fennin Ro would rule fuck my naive 13 year old person left a deep impression on my childish mind.

I learned that life is not fair. I learned that power in EverQuest flows from the command prompt of the GMs, and that access to that power is achieved with the skills of the enchanter: charm, illusion, cajoling /whispers (ok fine, /w is from wow).

I realized that True Power in EQ comes from understanding the GMs, and this started my innocent 13 year old self on an ever Quest to become the world's greatest Enchanter.

I went to one of the best universities in the world where I majored in psychology. I read all the books written by Freud, Adler, Horney (pronounced Horneye), and even the shitty psychologists in the CBT tradition who permeate the field of child psychology. I learned that Piaget is so overrated, as are Kohlberg and Erickson--the two moralizers who just echo western blindspots. I learned that people hate Freud because he's just so right about them, and that to volunteer to be a GM in a videogame you have to be a special kind of person.

Today, I am Forensic, the Forensic Psychologist, and now I have all the skills and knowledge needed to return to Classic EQ and beat The Mystical Order on Fennin Ro at their own game. I'm back and my enchanter is Level 22. Here to settle my score. Watch out!

[brecon]

Forensic, you win the award for douchiest troll of the month. Which is not easy to do here. Well done, you're a winner.

[forensic]

Forensic, you win the award for douchiest troll of the month. Which is not easy to do here. Well done, you're a winner.

TMO sockpuppet already running scared ^^

[myriverse]

#11. Play videogames that are meant for and primarily marketed to kids. Then tell the kids playing those videogames to "grow up" and "act like an adult" while they play their kiddie games.

Expecting people to act like an adult in a videogame is the biggest fucking contradiction in terms ever. Games are meant to be a time when you either are a kid who is BEING a kid, or for adults, a chance to ACT like a kid.

Here's my theory: people who tell other people to act like adults in videogames, themselves act like kids in reality. I bet the people who tend to do this tend to be more unemployed, more immature, less responsible, and so on than average. They act like adults in videogames because they don't know what it's like to do that IRL.

I have a place to act like an adult in... it's called every part of my life that isn't a videogame.
Being a game is no excuse. See how many want to continue playing with you if you don't act mature while playing a game.

[Derubael]

This did actually happen, no Meltan did not get a ring.

Yes, it's easy to check encounter logs. Who was camping the mobs prior makes no difference in an "FFA" camp like SRO AC.

[Crawdad]

This did actually happen, no Meltan did not get a ring.

Yes, it's easy to check encounter logs. Who was camping the mobs prior makes no difference in an "FFA" camp like SRO AC.

So then... the Bard got the ring, and all of this was just rabble rousing/fearmongering about people stealing camps, with some awkward trolling at the end. Seems about right.

[Babayaaga]

Thanks for posting your strategy. It will help resolve any disputes you may get involved in.

It's posts like this that seriously make me want to consider switching from course to game dev...

...almost. Pure win though.

[Sancta]

Oh wow, this isn't even the encounter I was thinking of. Couple things:

OP paints a picture of being right there ready to engage the target and someone sneakily sniped it out from under him right after it spawned. Encounter log shows something different:

Spawned: Thu Sep 25, 2014; 20:31:37
Meltan Engages: 20:33:56 (over 2 minutes after it spawned)
Then a Druid engages at 20:34:37, Druid is in the same guild as the wizard.
Finally, at 20:35:16, OP engages the AC. (nearly 4 minutes after it spawns)

After that, 2 other people pile on, including another Wizard who does almost as much damage as the bard. No one is grouped. Even if this had been a legitimate camp as opposed to an "uncampable" mob, waiting 4 minutes to engage a spawn is pushing it.

OP clearly knew the mob was engaged, as it had been chasing after another player for almost 2 minutes at that point. Do I have the wrong encounter log? Because this is the only one I see with your name on it attacking an AC.

I also don't see any reimbursement requests to have the ring moved to Meltan, nor do I see any delete/move requests in CSR chat. OP, if Eunomia told you to hold onto that ring and not turn it in I would continue to do so, but I'm starting to think this was a troll. I feel dirty inside.

As a side note, when I was still a player I killed a white con AC at level 35 on a wizard in rags, so I can see a 31 wizard killing one of the lower level AC spawns (Wiki level range is incorrect, though I can't provide an exact number as per CSR policy).


Exactly. The Meltan did get first engage. That's not the dispute. I attacked the AC when it was at 100% health thinking I had first engage. Apparently it was rooted, as what Meltan told me afterwards. Check the logs where it shows it's health.

I had a Terrorantula on me when I engaged the AC, and I charm it onto the AC.

By the rules it's Meltan's AC. Not once was that disputed.

Eunomia blew me up and told me to leave the ring on the corspe, which I did. Want to ask her?

Whether or not Meltan got a ring from Eunomia, I don't know since I haven't spoken to him since.

If you see a Ring in my bank right now, it's because I went to OOT yesterday and camped the spawn for 6.5 hours to get another ring. Want to check your logs?

Check with Eunomia and look at the logs that show the Mob's health. It was at 100% when I engaged and the GM blew up my corpse and told me to leave the Ring on the corpse. Which I did.

Also, since we are going to post more logs, I'd love to see the one where it shows me in Sro Killing the PH for the AC, over and over.

The rules of this server dictate it was Meltan's Ring. My whole point was that it's a bogus rule to have someone camp the PH, get the AC to spawn, and not have any claims on it whatsoever.

[forensic]

What does it mean to blow up the corpse? Like with a fireball or something? Or enlarge it so that it's even bigger than a typical giant? Or make it disappear?

[Derubael]

Exactly. The Meltan did get first engage. That's not the dispute. I attacked the AC when it was at 100% health thinking I had first engage. Apparently it was rooted, as what Meltan told me afterwards. Check the logs where it shows it's health.

I had a Terrorantula on me when I engaged the AC, and I charm it onto the AC.

By the rules it's Meltan's AC. Not once was that disputed.

Eunomia blew me up and told me to leave the ring on the corspe, which I did. Want to ask her?

Whether or not Meltan got a ring from Eunomia, I don't know since I haven't spoken to him since.

If you see a Ring in my bank right now, it's because I went to OOT yesterday and camped the spawn for 6.5 hours to get another ring. Want to check your logs?

Check with Eunomia and look at the logs that show the Mob's health. It was at 100% when I engaged and the GM blew up my corpse and told me to leave the Ring on the corpse.

Logs don't get that specific. Yes, your ring was corpsed (I just looted and deleted it to prevent future shenanigans). What I'm saying is that the amount of time between the mob spawning -> Meltan's engage -> your engage show that Meltan is more or less free of shame here. If you're going to let an FFA spawn stay up for ~4 minutes before you engage it, you should probably expect to lose it.

Even on a defined "camp" I'd say leaving a mob up for 4 minutes is pushing it. I don't think Meltan did anything wrong here based on the amount of time it took you to engage, and Eunomia did the right thing removing the ring. If he had "stolen" the mob from you in the first 15-30 seconds, that might be a different story, but that wasn't the case here.

This is why people camp the AC in OOT - unless you bring a group (like you would for a popular spawn like Quillmane) you should expect to be vying for FTE on the SRo AC.

[Bboboo]

Seems like back tracking to me.

So why didn't we post the full story at the start?

[Sancta]

Logs don't get that specific. Yes, your ring was corpsed (I just looted and deleted it to prevent future shenanigans). What I'm saying is that the amount of time between the mob spawning -> Meltan's engage -> your engage show that Meltan is more or less free of shame here. If you're going to let an FFA spawn stay up for ~4 minutes before you engage it, you should probably expect to lose it.

Even on a defined "camp" I'd say leaving a mob up for 4 minutes is pushing it. I don't think Meltan did anything wrong here based on the amount of time it took you to engage, and Eunomia did the right thing removing the ring. If he had "stolen" the mob from you in the first 15-30 seconds, that might be a different story, but that wasn't the case here.

This is why people camp the AC in OOT - unless you bring a group (like you would for a popular spawn like Quillmane) you should expect to be vying for FTE on the SRo AC.

I don't disagree with anything you said here. The AC is a random location spawn in a section of the desert. It isn't able to camped like a normal unique static spawn.

All the rules have been applied as the server rule book states.

Not once have I asked for the ring back, the rules were applied justly.

The point, however, is the rule should be changed for certain spawns that can be triggered in outdoors. Some of these spawns, like the AC, have precise ways they can be spawned and that can take hours of work to do.

[Pep]

Since the topic of FTE has been brought-up: is mezzing a mob considered an engagement? Supposing the mez sticks, the mob is aggroed even if it wont move.

I'm thinking of a situation where I'm playing my enchanter, I see a mob i'd like to farm and there's nothing around I can charm (my target is too high for the level of mobs around, for example) and I need to summon a pet. Memming the spell and casting it takes a good 30 seconds. If someone came during those 30 seconds and broke mez to engage the mob, who had the FTE?

Would rooting the mob present a different scenario?

[Sancta]

So why didn't we post the full story at the start?

What was missing?

[Derubael]

Since the topic of FTE has been brought-up: is mezzing a mob considered an engagement? Supposing the mez sticks, the mob is aggroed even if it wont move.

I'm thinking of a situation where I'm playing my enchanter, I see a mob i'd like to farm and there's nothing around I can charm (my target is too high for the level of mobs around, for example) and I need to summon a pet. Memming the spell and casting it takes a good 30 seconds. If someone came during those 30 seconds and broke mez to engage the mob, who had the FTE?

Would rooting the mob present a different scenario?

Mez won't put you on the encounter log, so we'd have nothing to show that you were first to engage.

Edit: OP, I'm not trying to attack you, I just thought you painted a disingenuous and unfair picture of what happened. While I sympathize with your experience (try getting an AC in SRo on Red pre-patch without getting ganked when the AC is at 10% hp), the bottom line is this is simpler to enforce, is in-line with classic CSR rulings, and will probably not be changed. If you want to camp a non-static spawn like this, bring some friends to ensure you can zap it the moment it spawns.

[Sancta]

If he had "stolen" the mob from you in the first 15-30 seconds, that might be a different story, but that wasn't the case here.


How would this be a different story? If I was running towards the mob and he engaged it even .00000001 seconds before me, he gets the first engage regardless and it's his AC no matter what because that's the rule of the server. If I was able to keep the ring in this case, then there would be a breaking of said rule, since it would actually be his ring.

Rules are rules. The whole point of this thread is about rules. If there were no rules, everything would be FFA.

[Hogfather]

There is a timed PH and there is an actual precise method of spawning this mob
...
Today, I was able to spawn the AC and engage it while it was at 100% hp. Thinking I had first engage, I proceeded to kill it. I knew the exact time it was going to spawn and was even ready for it with a Terrorantula I was going to charm onto the AC.

Spawned: Thu Sep 25, 2014; 20:31:37
Meltan Engages: 20:33:56 (over 2 minutes after it spawned)
Then a Druid engages at 20:34:37, Druid is in the same guild as the wizard.
Finally, at 20:35:16, OP engages the AC. (nearly 4 minutes after it spawns)

So good.

If you wandered off the OOT spawn point (an actually precise spawn) for four minutes while it was up, would you be mad? Would anyone blame someone for wandering past and engaging it?

[Sancta]

So good.

If you wandered off the OOT spawn point (an actually precise spawn) for four minutes while it was up, would you be mad? Would anyone blame someone for wandering past and engaging it?

You said OOT, we are talking about SRO. There are a few locations it can spawn in the desert.

And his FTE was never in question.

The whole point was for a discussion on changing the rulebook regarding the AC in South Ro spawn and how there is a precise way to spawn it.

[dustysr06]

changing the rule to consider sro AC a 'camp' like the OOT spawn would be a moot point considering it was up for nearly 4 minutes before you ever even engaged it. If a named mob spawns in someones 'camp' and is up for that long, they have forfeited the 'right' to that mob anyways- no matter what zone its in.

[Sancta]

changing the rule to consider sro AC a 'camp' like the OOT spawn would be a moot point considering it was up for nearly 4 minutes before you ever even engaged it. If a named mob spawns in someones 'camp' and is up for that long, they have forfeited the 'right' to that mob anyways- no matter what zone its in.

He has all the rights in the world to the spawn, not once was that ever disputed.

Static spawns have the added bonus of spawning at the same spot every time.

Non-static spawns do not have that luxury and spawn in more than one place. Hence why the FTE was lucky to even run by at one of the locations at the right time. The time to engage when a mob spawns will vary with non-static spawns because they are non-static.

It's the same if Quillmane were to spawn by someone attempting to trigger him and someone random happened to be run by and grabbed it.

The person triggering is disadvantaged.
The ruling of server favors the person that did not do any work to help trigger the spawn.
The people who trigger the spawn and do the work have no claim to the spawn.

I'm not looking to change what has happened, only to change what will happen in the future.

[brecon]

If that's the point of this thread....then it's silly. Not every mob in all of the game is supposed to be a stationary camp. Randomly triggered mobs is a totally different element.

There are so so many reasons why. The main one is that there is no way to guarantee that you are the one that triggered it, especially in a place like SRO or SK. In fact, in SRO the mobs that can trigger the AC also sometimes die to other mobs in the zone. The camp rules make sense given

The second one is that if you could hold the camp, then it would be nothing but 60 bards swarming the zone. You'd never get a chance to camp your own jboots ring in your mid-30s.

No amount of rules will prevent people from finding some way to slight people. These ruleset for SRO AC or QM, albeit annoying, prevent the otherwise routine high-level solo classes camping low-level high-value objects like the enduring breath earring, CoS, earring of essence, etc.

If you want a static spawn for jboots, go to OoT. The SRO camp is not that kind of camp.

[iruinedyourday]

Move this to RnF so people can really start going off on eachother lmao

[Rooj]

These ruleset for SRO AC or QM, albeit annoying, prevent the otherwise routine high-level solo classes camping low-level high-value objects like the enduring breath earring, CoS, earring of essence, etc.

I feel like I'm completely misunderstanding this line, and I can't figure it out. :(

[brecon]

Sorry was early. Key point is not every mob in EQ is, or should be, a 'camp.'

If the SRO AC was a 'camp,' then it would just lead to bored lvl 60 bards, rangers etc. permanently camping the items. Especially the SRO AC, which is a such a small area and restricted to night spawn, it would turn into another OoT AC.

The downside is exactly what happened here it sounds like, but changing it to a 'camp' would have all sorts of unintended consequences. In fact the Developers, in all Their wisdom, changed the AC SRO spawns in January to avoid the problem I'm talking about, where there were fixed spawn points for the AC.

[salimoneus]

I personally think jboots should have been harder to get than sitting your ass on a static spawn "camp". They are one of it not the most useful item in the game for many classes. I have no problem seeing an increase in the level of difficulty required to attain them, classic or not, although like many I prefer to mirror classic as much as possible.

It certainly sucks what happened and I feel bad for the guy who wasted 20+ hours, but that's just the nature of the camp now after the spawn changes.

You do however have a couple options: bring friends to help you next time, or just buy them.

[Nietche]

(I strongly suspect a lvl 31 wiz would have difficulty against the AC solo).

I wonder if said wizzie had been level 5, if the loot transfer would still have occurred. Sucks that you put 20 hours into it and lost it due to an unknown fte.

Oh just read this.

Oh wow, this isn't even the encounter I was thinking of. Couple things:

OP paints a picture of being right there ready to engage the target and someone sneakily sniped it out from under him right after it spawned. Encounter log shows something different:

Spawned: Thu Sep 25, 2014; 20:31:37
Meltan Engages: 20:33:56 (over 2 minutes after it spawned)
Then a Druid engages at 20:34:37, Druid is in the same guild as the wizard.
Finally, at 20:35:16, OP engages the AC. (nearly 4 minutes after it spawns)

After that, 2 other people pile on, including another Wizard who does almost as much damage as the bard. No one is grouped. Even if this had been a legitimate camp as opposed to an "uncampable" mob, waiting 4 minutes to engage a spawn is pushing it.

OP clearly knew the mob was engaged, as it had been chasing after another player for almost 2 minutes at that point. Do I have the wrong encounter log? Because this is the only one I see with your name on it attacking an AC.

I also don't see any reimbursement requests to have the ring moved to Meltan, nor do I see any delete/move requests in CSR chat. OP, if Eunomia told you to hold onto that ring and not turn it in I would continue to do so, but I'm starting to think this was a troll. I feel dirty inside.

As a side note, when I was still a player I killed a white con AC at level 35 on a wizard in rags, so I can see a 31 wizard killing one of the lower level AC spawns (Wiki level range is incorrect, though I can't provide an exact number as per CSR policy).

[Nietche]

How would this be a different story? If I was running towards the mob and he engaged it even .00000001 seconds before me, he gets the first engage regardless and it's his AC no matter what because that's the rule of the server. If I was able to keep the ring in this case, then there would be a breaking of said rule, since it would actually be his ring.

Rules are rules. The whole point of this thread is about rules. If there were no rules, everything would be FFA.

Derubael is throwing you a bone, imo, and you are throwing it in his face. Had the encounter log shown a 15-second difference instead of 4 minutes between the two engagements, I think Derubael and Eunomia would have considered your plea notwithstanding the letter of the law.

But if by your own admission the purpose of this thread was to change the rules for the SRO AC to be campable, you are barking up the wrong tree. I don't think anyone agrees with you. Our initial responses were based upon the belief that you engaged seconds after the AC spawn, that you didn't know Meltan had engaged first, and that you felt wronged due to the perceived injustice of not getting an AC ring as a result of the first two. None of that seems to be the case.

[kruptcy]

Mez won't put you on the encounter log, so we'd have nothing to show that you were first to engage.

Mezz then tash!

[Nirgon]

He should be immune to fire in SRO. It is still not the case here.

I stand by this statement.

[Sancta]

Had the encounter log shown a 15-second difference

I don't think anyone agrees with you.

the perceived injustice

No because even if there was a 15 second difference and I was able to keep the ring, then that would be a bending of the rules, the Wizard still has the right to the ring in this case. FTE is FTE.

If you read the thread, there were people that agreed that the person trying to get it to spawn should have some claim to it.

There was no injustice, not even a little. The wizard got the ring fair and square. Again, not once was this disputed.

[brecon]

so to bring this back to the start....you knew the rules, broke the rules, and knowing you broke the rules, wrote a post to show that the rule that you broke that you knew you had broken that was enforced correctly is wrong.

i'm super confused.

[Sancta]

so to bring this back to the start....you knew the rules, broke the rules, and knowing you broke the rules, wrote a post to show that the rule that you broke that you knew you had broken that was enforced correctly is wrong.

i'm super confused.

No, actually I didn't know I had first engage when I engaged it. It was at 100% hp and not attacking anything. The GM informed me I didn't have first engage so the ring was given to the Wizard. The rule that exists for this spawn was ruled correctly.

But there is a legit way to trigger the spawn and camp it, so I wanted a review on the rule and a change on the rule. Doesn't look like it's happening though.

[Atmas]

For the record I think a 31 wizard could take a 32 AC. I had a similar experience when I was a younger wizard and encountered the elusive South Karana AC spawn. A long drawn out fight ensued. I was lucky enough to have a higher level Druid friend come by and help me kill it but, had they not shown up it probably would have just been a long kite. As long as you can mana regen and gain ground over the health regen + snare recasting mana costs + resists you will eventually get the kill. It gets easier if you get to a point where the mob is running.

[brecon]

No, actually I didn't know I had first engage when I engaged it. It was at 100% hp and not attacking anything. The GM informed me I didn't have first engage so the ring was given to the Wizard. The rule that exists for this spawn was ruled correctly.

But there is a legit way to trigger the spawn and camp it, so I wanted a review on the rule and a change on the rule. Doesn't look like it's happening though.

I get it now. I didn't realize from the start that your question was not on this PARTICULAR incident....which has been like all of the conversation. That's why we have all focused on the level of the wizard, the 100% hp level, etc.

With regards to the general body of rules governing this camp, I don't think there's a problem that needs to be addressed, but I understand varying opinions can be held.