Rules Lawyers: the Myconid Spore King

[Raev]

Mostly this thread is a reflection of my irritation that the king camp is constantly occupied by trios of people who train out the right side and then sneak pull to the left, then AFK for 30 minutes. Meanwhile, the actual spore king camp (on his spawn point, not in the zone out room) is a ton of fun and requires a real group of L60 players. So personally I think it would be way more fun to watch full groups constantly wipe on the spawn point of the king than a bunch of dudes do their laundry while pushing the GIVEMEPIXELZPLZ button.

edit: this was not clear originally, but I dont care what people do if the camp is uncontested. I just think full groups should be able to move to his spawn point and ignore the 3 man AFK teams.

[Cecily]

Why don't you take your real group of L60 players and take the camp from the AFKers? Deal with the GMs and see how it goes.

[monti]

Fairly sure the GMs would vote in your favor.

[Cecily]

Yeah, but he'd like overwhelming player base support on his poll to use as leverage to change the server rules on the camp instead. Because people who play EQ are all horribly passive aggressive.

More regulations on how we can play is exactly what this server needs, I agree totally. There's rules in place to steal camps legally from AFKers. You don't deserve the camp if you're not willing to deal with the unpleasantness that comes with it.

[Raev]

I PMed Sirken and he suggested that the GMs would rule in favor of the tube group, although he sympathized with my general position. So I would like to get the policy changed.

P.S. Stop being a douche, Cecily.

[Cecily]

P.S. Stop being a douche, Cecily.

I disagree with your idea. I'm not being a douche. There's a difference.

[Raev]

I'm not projecting. I'm overtly hostile.

yes, that's why I changed my post to "stop being a douche". I don't care if you disagree with me; what I care about is you dragging a perfectly reasonable thread down to RNF levels before it gets off the first page.

[Cecily]

yes, that's why I changed my post to "stop being a douche". I don't care if you disagree with me; what I care about is you dragging a perfectly reasonable thread down to RNF levels before it gets off the first page.

That's the problem here. People think dissenting opinions = trolling. I most assuredly assure you, I am not trying to get a reaction out of you. Your idea is just bad.

[Raev]

When you tell someone to fuck off, you are trolling. When you call someone passive-aggressive, you are trolling. I don't see why this is hard to understand.

[Cecily]

No I'm sharing an observation acquired over a very long time playing EQ with a generalization. Of course YOU are a unique snowflake who this generalization doesn't apply to.

[Daldaen]

While we are on this, can we make King Tranix deathtouch someone if they kill him 10+ spawns in a row.

Having 6 corpsed Crown of Tranix Crowns, and killing every spawn for a month is ridiculous.

[Cecily]

I am upset because there is more dedicated players camping the mob I want.

[Pheer]

Me and a few guildies cleared just the early am tranix spawn for a week or two since it was the only one the poopsocking shaman wasnt showing up for. Got about 3 crowns in a week just clearing that one spawn then all the sudden he started pooping round the clock.

[Daldaen]

I am upset because there is more dedicated players camping the mob I want.

There is a difference between a dedicated player getting a few crowns for main/alts/friends/guildmates/platinum, and someone poopsocking the same spawn for a month straight monopolizing the camp.

[Briscoe]

Who is the "poopsocking shaman"?

[arsenalpow]

There is a difference between a dedicated player getting a few crowns for main/alts/friends/guildmates/platinum, and someone poopsocking the same spawn for a month straight monopolizing the camp.

how is that any different for anything in this stupid game though? Raid mobs? Ragefire?

[Pheer]

Who is the "poopsocking shaman"?

during the period of time im referring to it was kahriak

[Clark]

While we are on this, can we make King Tranix deathtouch someone if they kill him 10+ spawns in a row.

Having 6 corpsed Crown of Tranix Crowns, and killing every spawn for a month is ridiculous.

http://i.imgur.com/mds0o1o.jpg

[Hailto]

If you're keeping the ph/spawn clear why does it matter how many people you're doing it with or where you pull it to? Who the fuck wants to do King with a full group?

[Pheer]

real pros pull tola and prot while camping king

[Daldaen]

how is that any different for anything in this stupid game though? Raid mobs? Ragefire?

Because he can claim Tranix as his camp, and does so in camp checks. Which in itself is ridiculous... claiming a mob that spawns every 8 hours, implying you will sit at your computer for 8 hours until the next is, and do that repeatedly.

No one claims Ragefire in camp checks, its an FTE race.


If Tranix becomes an FTE race that would be lolz though...

[Lune]

If you're keeping the ph/spawn clear why does it matter how many people you're doing it with or where you pull it to? Who the fuck wants to do King with a full group?

druids, noobs, casuals, and other lowlifes

[Hailto]

druids, noobs, casuals, and other lowlifes

Lot more casual to kill one mob every 30 minutes than have to kill adds non stop for 8 hours until you get a king pop imo.

[jpetrick]

thought tranix was a 24 hour spawn not 8

[Daldaen]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Loraen.

King pull I don't think is as classic as people make it out to be.

[BardPop]

Because he can claim Tranix as his camp, and does so in camp checks.
This is why you camp Tranix on R99, no problem. A timed spawn mob is obviously not a camp, but sounds like your leaving him alone to sell the crowns himself. This injustice would never happen on red. If you want tranix you go down and kill him and there is noone monopolizing the spawn preventing you for months on end. I remember playing blue on live and seeing my fair share of people like that, when I quit and went to pvp at 50ish it was a nice change.

[Daldaen]

This is why you camp Tranix on R99, no problem. A timed spawn mob is obviously not a camp, but sounds like your leaving him alone to sell the crowns himself. This injustice would never happen on red. If you want tranix you go down and kill him and there is noone monopolizing the spawn preventing you for months on end. I remember playing blue on live and seeing my fair share of people like that, when I quit and went to pvp at 50ish it was a nice change.

1-2 camps being permafarmed by neckbeards is vastly preferable to being hunted down and killed by fungi wearing ragebringer wielding rogue twinks, who if I kill I can't loot their fungi (not classic).

[Raev]

The poll results are quite interesting; I keep forgetting people play this game for pixels and not for fun. Consider me properly chastised.

[Zuut]

I played for fun once. ONCE!

[BardPop]

1-2 camps being permafarmed by neckbeards is vastly preferable to being hunted down and killed by fungi wearing ragebringer wielding rogue twinks, who if I kill I can't loot their fungi (not classic).
If your at tranix and your group can't handle one fungi twink you got problems. All skills really, if your group is well versed in eq pvp a rogue shouldn't be able to run down and kill your group, never seen that happen in 50s range, and I'd think it would be suicide to try that at giants but i guess anything is possible.

[dustysr06]

If you're keeping the ph/spawn clear why does it matter how many people you're doing it with or where you pull it to? Who the fuck wants to do King with a full group?

There is no problem there, except when a group wants to do king and can potentially lawyer the camp from you by moving physically into his room and contesting the camp. Precedence doesnt matter in camp disputes, but as an example of a similar scenario I once had to give up verix because my group was set up in the room just before him, and then a duo decided they would move into his room and sit on his spawn. Because I did not immediately move my group also to sit on his spawn, I had to forfeit the camp to said duo, per eunomia who quoted the general 'at or very near spawn point' rule. Since there is a wall between my camp and the actual spawn, I lost. Now sirken or derubael, has they responded to the petition (the duo petitioned, not me, and I wasnt even given the option to share my opinions with her before she made the judgement call, mind you) they may have ruled in my favor, and told me to move onto the spawn point, who knows?

Tldr: roll red, and just take the camp from them.

[Briscoe]

If your at tranix and your group can't handle one fungi twink you got problems. All skills really, if your group is well versed in eq pvp a rogue shouldn't be able to run down and kill your group, never seen that happen in 50s range, and I'd think it would be suicide to try that at giants but i guess anything is possible.

I think his comment is a broader statement about playing on R99 in general...not just Tranix camp.

[BardPop]

He is over-dramatizing, rogues with fungis do not run red. If someone believes every important level range on red is swarming with massively twinked rogues, then they have never played on the server. Simple fact.

[Byrjun]

This is why you camp Tranix on R99, no problem. A timed spawn mob is obviously not a camp, but sounds like your leaving him alone to sell the crowns himself. This injustice would never happen on red. If you want tranix you go down and kill him and there is noone monopolizing the spawn preventing you for months on end. I remember playing blue on live and seeing my fair share of people like that, when I quit and went to pvp at 50ish it was a nice change.

What do you do when the guy monopolizing Tranix is a better PVP class than you? Or better geared than you? Or more skilled than you? Same thing, different type of monopolizing. PVP doesn't solve everything. Like, didn't everyone on Red complain for years about one guild monopolizing all the raid mobs?

Anyways, I don't think we should start making rules like "must have at least 6 people to engage Fungi King" or "can't pull a mob further than 500 units" cause it's silly and not in the spirit of the game.

I also don't get the "people don't play for fun" argument. Camping Fungi King with 6+ people isn't really fun, it should be trivial.

[Daldaen]

If they aren't clearing all the mobs you can just clear the mobs in jail and roaming myconids and let it respawn one cycle. Since those aren't camped.

Once those respawn, if there are enough see invis to prevent an immediate pull from the fungi duo, you can claim they aren't camping it since they aren't maintaining a presence in the room, nor are they pulling it immediately. Therefore not camped anymore.

[Byrjun]

If they aren't clearing all the mobs you can just clear the mobs in jail and roaming myconids and let it respawn one cycle. Since those aren't camped.

Once those respawn, if there are enough see invis to prevent an immediate pull from the fungi duo, you can claim they aren't camping it since they aren't maintaining a presence in the room, nor are they pulling it immediately. Therefore not camped anymore.

Clearing the non see invis mobs is firmly in the "dick move" category but I don't think there's a rule against it. But if you do that, you're kind of a jerk.

[BardPop]

Both times i have killed tranix there was no pvp, if there had been pvp i'd have done what i always do:call up some friends and take it down. Pvp is the fun of the game and I would enjoy it, as for Red it is not as unbalanced guild wise, nihilium is gone and there are 2 major guilds raiding.

[nicemace]

Clearing the non see invis mobs is firmly in the "dick move" category but I don't think there's a rule against it. But if you do that, you're kind of a jerk.

some would also say dominating a comp for days / weeks on end is also a dick move. im not saying it is, but there are people out there with that mindset.

i used to solo frenzy back on live farming fbss's, this is during the days of 60 people in lguk and people waiting on lists to get into camps n shit.. it drove them nuts that i was taking the camp by myself for days on end. i think i ended up with 12 fbss's by the time i stopped.

regardless, if its not against the rules then i have no problem with whatever people choose to do. if people want to be 'dicks' have at it. if 1 person can camp tranix for weeks or months on end without leaving. good on him.

[Daldaen]

Clearing the non see invis mobs is firmly in the "dick move" category but I don't think there's a rule against it. But if you do that, you're kind of a jerk.

For sure. But what nicemace said.

Farming a camp enough that you become a staple in /who and camp checks become irrelevant since you are always there, is just as much of a dick move in my book.

[Byrjun]

call up some friends and take it down.

What if the guys monopolizing Tranix have more people than you?

[Reguiy]

The poll results are quite interesting; I keep forgetting people play this game for pixels and not for fun. Consider me properly chastised.

Sometimes I think fun doesn't even factor in to 90% of the population's decisions.

[Poid]

Funny thing is, king was completely uncamped for about 4 hours straight Saturday afternoon/evening.

[fastboy21]

the zone out area is practically right on top of the spawn point...at least its certainly close enough to be considered "nearby". On live, many exp groups stayed near the zone out area and pulled into the king camp...it wasn't considered obnoxious or unfair on my servers.

the concept of having to stand right on a spawn to "claim" it makes very little sense to me if you are very "nearby" and keeping the PH down why does it matter that you are down the hall? whether you are clearing the whole area for exp or just sniping the named mob what difference does it make?

as someone who would rather play EQ by exp'ing alts rather than camping mobs, I'm somewhat pleased when someone camping an item is surgically hitting their target and leaving the rest of the area alone for me. this isn't just about the fungi camp. issues like this happen in every single zone with an item that can sell for a few k...from mistmoore with dhamp to seb with fungis...its how I remember EQ being played.

[dustysr06]

the difference in clearing the mobs versus sniping the ph, i would think, is the difference between holding the 'camp' versus just pulling the ph- because nobody is at the 'camp' no? if you're duo/trio pulling king, and a full group comes down and gives you the proposition of move in to your 'camp' and hold it, or we're taking it- you dont have much of a choice but to move in to the actual camp do you?

its the same concept as someone or a group holding multiple camps in an empty lguk, its fine until someone contests one of your camps- you still reserve the right to choose which one you want to keep, but they have every right to move in on the one(s) you leave...

Pulling king solo to the zone out? great- nobody is camping king, but in my opinion you arent 'camping' king either- you're just pulling his PH :)

[BardPop]

Byrjun:
Then you get more people and so on, worst thing that happens is you have to cr, best thing is you get masses of pvp targets and hopefully tranix. But the point is that the pvp is the goal for a guy like me, tranix comes later. Another thing on point though; I don't think anyone is actually desperate enough to camp tranix for 8 hours straight on pvp, we are all out you know, pvping. So thats one benefit.

[Raev]

So I checked my OP and I realized it was pretty unclear. I dont care what people do if the camp is uncontested; I just think full groups should be able to move to his spawn point and ignore the 3 man AFK teams.

[dustysr06]

So I checked my OP and I realized it was pretty unclear. I dont care what people do if the camp is uncontested; I just think full groups should be able to move to his spawn point and ignore the 3 man AFK teams.

i was trying to keep thread on track, shame on that daldaen guy!...

I think you have to give them the option, to move in- if they dont, then you should have every right to take the camp.

Once you do, wait for a gm to show up, and depending on who it is, you may or may not be allowed to stay there. /shrug

precedence doesnt matter in camp disputes, the gm's have made it pretty clear camp disputes are on a case by case basis, but i dont see how they could rule against you if you've given them the choice to move into the actual 'camp' and they declined, so you took it.

[Nietche]

Fairly sure the GMs would vote in your favor.

Bort and Ambrotos (pretty sure it was Ambrotos) once ruled in a specific instance that King camp had to be held either inside the King room or at the water adjacent to King room.

As most groups can't hold the camp in either place, groups are left to pull it to exit/tube rooms. I'm indifferent either way, but I'm inclined to think that if other camps have to be held inside or very near the room in order to be labeled "a legal camp," OS King should be the same if a group can hold it.

[Freakish]

I'd rather fight it in the water. Forcing a group to fight in his room is ridiculous. It just makes the fights artificially hard and punishes innovation.
I'm not talking about pulling into the water innovation. I understand that is viewed poorly. I'm talking about pulling to specific areas where passing cleric mobs do not cast CH, or you won't get adds. Brain room, exit room, corner x that you cleared earlier.

[iruinedyourday]

A full group moving into a camp someone is already occupying anywhere is lame, dont create a server culture of "WE MOVED IN HERE SO SHUTUP" that's like fucking some mistmoore shit.

I dont think its fair, I see that translating into someone not being able to solo a camp anywhere in the game.

[teija]

You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it.

This is quote from the Play Nice Policy, I take this to mean if a grp rolls down the tube to king camp and a duo is sitting there pulling the PH,They must return "very near" the king spawn. I think we all can agree the tube room is not "very near" the King at all, exit room mabey, thro door near water would be in my opinion "very near" the king.

just my 2 cents.

[heartbrand]

Red99

[Ele]

If a group is afking in tube room and leaves up everything but king/pH, another group should be able to take over jail, brain room, or king room NP.

[Daldaen]

If a group is afking in tube room and leaves up everything but king/pH, another group should be able to take over jail, brain room, or king room NP.

Sounds pretty classic to me. I approve.

[Raev]

Sounds pretty classic to me. I approve.

I suspect the votes would be mostly in favor of this if I didn't word my poll like a moron.

[iruinedyourday]

this whole concept is ridiculous imo. If someone is killing the PH just move on and find a new camp.

If you try to justify you picking a different spot and pulling the same PH and think you are good and right, you are just justifying yourself being a douche bag.

Once I was 'looking at shit' for a few minuets trying to 'enjoy classic eq' waiting on an AC spawn that I had timed, some dude rolled up and argued with me and tried to KS the AC saying that the camp was open.

Gimi a break people, is this really how you want it to be? This all reeks of that same type of bad personality disorder.

[Ele]

this whole concept is ridiculous imo. If someone is killing the PH just move on and find a new camp.

If you try to justify you picking a different spot and pulling the same PH and think you are good and right, you are just justifying yourself being a douche bag.

Once I was 'looking at shit' for a few minuets trying to 'enjoy classic eq' waiting on an AC spawn that I had timed, some dude rolled up and argued with me and tried to KS the AC saying that the camp was open.

Gimi a break people, is this really how you want it to be? This all reeks of that same type of bad personality disorder.

Your AC scenario is an entirely different concept. This thread isn't arguing to steal the king ph pull if the group is afk when it spawns and sitting in the same or second tube room, but instead moving up and killing the surrounding mobs and taking over the camp closer to the spawn point.

In your scenario, if the AC/ph hadn't spawned, then the guy had zero legitimate claim to make against you. If it had spawned and you happened to be AFK, then he by all rights could kill the PH/AC.

[Jfertal]

real pros pull tola and prot while camping king

was fun pulling tola and prot to tube room in between spore king spawns.

[Jfertal]

Once you do, wait for a gm to show up, and depending on who it is, you may or may not be allowed to stay there. /shrug

that is also the problem right there.there has never ever really been a cut and dry policy, every guide or gm decides differently on camp disputes. ambrotos was always pretty consistent which was nice.

[iruinedyourday]

Your AC scenario is an entirely different concept. This thread isn't arguing to steal the king ph pull if the group is afk when it spawns and sitting in the same or second tube room, but instead moving up and killing the surrounding mobs and taking over the camp closer to the spawn point.

In your scenario, if the AC/ph hadn't spawned, then the guy had zero legitimate claim to make against you. If it had spawned and you happened to be AFK, then he by all rights could kill the PH/AC.

what Im saying is, if in any situation where you are in the middle of killing someones PH and they are like, 'hey what are you doing' and you don't give up the camp back to the person camping the thing becuse maybe thier dog spilled water, or they had to pee real bad or any number of RL things come up, you're a jerk!

If 2 friends get online to do the king camp together and they are having a good time and you swoop in for whatever reason and start spouting off all this lawering crap, yer a jerk.

just be cool, man

[fastboy21]

I think we all can agree the tube room is not "very near" the King at all, exit room mabey, thro door near water would be in my opinion "very near" the king.

just my 2 cents.

This is where the rule becomes subjective, and you don't know what "nearby" really means until the GM rules on it.

IMO, tube room is not near fungi king. exit room is.

Not only is the lower zone out room (or the hall just outside that room) geographically nearby to the king room, but it is the better logical place to set up camp to avoid unnecessary roamers and potential issues in a camp that is actually challenging for most folks to hold.

The surgical strike is a non-issue imo, though I don't know if GMs take this into account. To me, it makes zero difference whether or not someone is sniping the PH and leaving every other mob in the zone up or if they are slaughtering everything in the zone. As long as there is no zone disruption (i.e. training of mobs on others to split the camp) sniping is perfectly legit imo. If GMs do take this into account when ruling, I don't see it anywhere in the policy regarding camps.

[Korben]

Why the fuck do we always have to break the law book out? 3 people are constantly killing whatever they're after for hours on end, why should you feel like it's your right to move in and take shit from them just because you have 6 people and can sit closer? I seriously don't understand the sense of inherent entitlement people feel they have here.

Oh, hey folks, I see you guys have been consistently killing this mob and are using your knowledge of pull/game mechanics to your advantage, but if you don't mind would you kindly go fuck yourself because me and my 5 friends are going to brute force this trivial encounter. THAT will surely show everybody who is right.

[texwilly]

Why the fuck do we always have to break the law book out? 3 people are constantly killing whatever they're after for hours on end, why should you feel like it's your right to move in and take shit from them just because you have 6 people and can sit closer? I seriously don't understand the sense of inherent entitlement people feel they have here.

Oh, hey folks, I see you guys have been consistently killing this mob and are using your knowledge of pull/game mechanics to your advantage, but if you don't mind would you kindly go fuck yourself because me and my 5 friends are going to brute force this trivial encounter. THAT will surely show everybody who is right.



Great conversations going on here. I was originally against the "snipe" pulling technique, thinking along with the OP that a full group clearing the area, camping legitimately "nearer" the spawn, should have priority. I think I was siding this way due to the frustrations of the camp being consistently occupied by this style of group for the past few months (king groups have all but disappeared).

I believe I have seen the light from the above quote. I have changed teams for sure.

[Korben]

Great conversations going on here. I was originally against the "snipe" pulling technique, thinking along with the OP that a full group clearing the area, camping legitimately "nearer" the spawn, should have priority. I think I was siding this way due to the frustrations of the camp being consistently occupied by this style of group for the past few months (king groups have all but disappeared).

I believe I have seen the light from the above quote. I have changed teams for sure.

If an individual feels that taking a spawn from somebody else who is consistently clearing that one spawn is appropriate, JUST because the law book technically says they can, I feel bad for them because they are not a decent person.

If someone is spending their time killing a spawn every 30 minutes in a consistent and reliable manner, all common decency would suggest that you move on and find something else to do, not bring more friends than they have and be a horrible cunt by taking from them the one thing they are camping.

[Ele]

Why the fuck do we always have to break the law book out? 3 people are constantly killing whatever they're after for hours on end, why should you feel like it's your right to move in and take shit from them just because you have 6 people and can sit closer? I seriously don't understand the sense of inherent entitlement people feel they have here.

Oh, hey folks, I see you guys have been consistently killing this mob and are using your knowledge of pull/game mechanics to your advantage, but if you don't mind would you kindly go fuck yourself because me and my 5 friends are going to brute force this trivial encounter. THAT will surely show everybody who is right.

Should the tube group sniping King/PH be able to prevent anyone else from camping jail/shrooms even though they are not touching any of those mobs?

[Korben]

Should the tube group sniping King/PH be able to prevent anyone else from camping jail/shrooms even though they are not touching any of those mobs?

Not unless the intended outcome of killing the untouched mobs is to directly interfere with the King/PH group.

[Daldaen]

Should the tube group sniping King/PH be able to prevent anyone else from camping jail/shrooms even though they are not touching any of those mobs?

This.

The answer to this is, no they should not. If they aren't clearing it, they have no room to complain if you do that.

[texwilly]

Not unless the intended outcome of killing the untouched mobs is to directly interfere with the King/PH group.

There are worse places to XP in the game. I could honestly see someone clearing it once and zoning out while the tube group is AFK. Upon return, they will likely be very surprised to find a bunch of see-invis repops. Dick move for sure. But it will happen now that everyone knows the weakness to the strat. Continuously messing up the jail area would likely drive the "snipers" out after a few forced re-clears. Theoretically, they would not even be able to maintain a presence at the camp while the PH was up for 5-10 minutes of re-clearing see-invis mobs.

[Ella`Ella]

An actual King 'group' of 6 people would kill everything in the jail, brain room, and pull shrooms. What does it matter if 3 people claim the camp and don't feel like killing the other mobs they're entitled to? It's their right to choose which mobs they kill and which they don't for whatever reason. Just because they aren't touching them doesn't mean that someone else is should be entitled to them.

What are you actually upset about here? If a full group of 6 people claiming king were only killing the king, would that be a problem? What if they camped out in the zone out room and only killed those 3 mobs + king. Would you care if they were killing all the mobs, yet still pulled to the tube room? What if it were 5 people? 4? Where do you draw the line over what is an acceptable amount players that can enjoy the same content for whatever purpose and which mobs you require them kill?

[texwilly]

An actual King 'group' of 6 people would kill everything in the jail, brain room, and pull shrooms. What does it matter if 3 people claim the camp and don't feel like killing the other mobs they're entitled to? It's their right to choose which mobs they kill and which they don't for whatever reason. Just because they aren't touching them doesn't mean that someone else is should be entitled to them.

What are you actually upset about here? If a full group of 6 people claiming king were only killing the king, would that be a problem? What if they camped out in the zone out room and only killed those 3 mobs + king. Would you care if they were killing all the mobs, yet still pulled to the tube room? What if it were 5 people? 4? Where do you draw the line over what is an acceptable amount players that can enjoy the same content for whatever purpose and which mobs you require them kill?

This is the logic that converted me. I completely agree. This is a "slippery slope"...

[Erati]

damn I agree with Ella on this

where does the line get drawn?

if someone is duo'ing just the King PH, it is pretty douchey to bring a 6 man crew, leapfrog and set up shop at the spawn.

If the duo is being a dick to everyone tho, they had it coming

[Korben]

There are worse places to XP in the. I could honestly see someone clearing it once and zoning out while the tube group is AFK. Upon return, they will likely be very surprised to find a bunch of see-invis repops. Dick move for sure. But it will happen now that everyone knows the weakness to the strat. Continuously messing up the jail area would likely drive the "snipers" out after a few forced re-clears. Theoretically, they would not even be able to maintain a presence at the camp while the PH was up for 5-10 minutes of re-clearing see-invis mobs.

Sure, I don't see an issue with folks coming by and exping off of mobs nobody is clearing.

I think the root of the issue is if people are doing it for exp, or if they are doing it to be cocks. I always feel the 'don't be a cunt' should apply, and if you're clearing the non see invis mobs JUST to disrupt the sniper group, well... you're disrupting a group for no reason other than to be a jerk and that shouldn't be allowed.

Now if you come down there legitimately to exp, then game on.

I seriously think they need to add the 'don't be a cunt' clause to the rules.

[Daldaen]

An actual King 'group' of 6 people would kill everything in the jail, brain room, and pull shrooms. What does it matter if 3 people claim the camp and don't feel like killing the other mobs they're entitled to? It's their right to choose which mobs they kill and which they don't for whatever reason. Just because they aren't touching them doesn't mean that someone else is should be entitled to them.

What are you actually upset about here? If a full group of 6 people claiming king were only killing the king, would that be a problem? What if they camped out in the zone out room and only killed those 3 mobs + king. Would you care if they were killing all the mobs, yet still pulled to the tube room? What if it were 5 people? 4? Where do you draw the line over what is an acceptable amount players that can enjoy the same content for whatever purpose and which mobs you require them kill?

The bolded is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read all day. And I started off my day reading a statement from Ted Cruz's office...

If they are not being engaged or they have no intent in killing them, they are by definition uncamped. If they want people to not screw with their mobs, they are free to relocate, or kill them.

Just because you can solo pull a mob to a safe room doesn't mean you can lay claim to every mob inbetween you and your target if you are not killing them.

So could I kill the jail frogs and tell someone they aren't allowed to kill fungi king, even if I don't plan on killing it or any Myconids. No. Because that is abso-fucking-lutely retarded.

[Crom]

The bolded is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read all day. And I started off my day reading a statement from Ted Cruz's office...

If they are not being engaged or they have no intent in killing them, they are by definition uncamped. If they want people to not screw with their mobs, they are free to relocate, or kill them.

Just because you can solo pull a mob to a safe room doesn't mean you can lay claim to every mob inbetween you and your target if you are not killing them.

So could I kill the jail frogs and tell someone they aren't allowed to kill fungi king, even if I don't plan on killing it or any Myconids. No. Because that is abso-fucking-lutely retarded.

/aye

[Ele]

An actual King 'group' of 6 people would kill everything in the jail, brain room, and pull shrooms. What does it matter if 3 people claim the camp and don't feel like killing the other mobs they're entitled to? It's their right to choose which mobs they kill and which they don't for whatever reason. Just because they aren't touching them doesn't mean that someone else is should be entitled to them.

That is their right not to kill mobs, until another group wants to come in and kill those unclaimed intermediate mobs. The first group has a decision: do they want to start clearing them or let the other group clear the untouched mobs. If the king group does not want to clear the intermediate mobs between King and tube room, then they will have to take special precautions on their pull to not train the group now clearing jail.

What are you actually upset about here? If a full group of 6 people claiming king were only killing the king, would that be a problem? What if they camped out in the zone out room and only killed those 3 mobs + king. Would you care if they were killing all the mobs, yet still pulled to the tube room? What if it were 5 people? 4? Where do you draw the line over what is an acceptable amount players that can enjoy the same content for whatever purpose and which mobs you require them kill?

It is not a problem, until another group wants to come in and kill the other mobs being ignored.

Using this logic, a shaman soloing Hiero can prevent another group from killing the rest of crypt just because the shaman could kill the other stuff but chooses not to. A solo/group socking Tranix can prevent people from killing FGs just because they could kill it but choose not to.

[Ella`Ella]

Using this logic, a shaman soloing Hiero can prevent another group from killing the rest of crypt just because the shaman could kill the other stuff but chooses not to. A solo/group socking Tranix can prevent people from killing FGs just because they could kill it but choose not to.

I think the logic here is moreso, "Does killing the untended mobs materially disrupt the people initially in the camp?". In your example of Hierophant, killing the ICGs, the roaming Ooze, the frog and the other 3 named spawns does not materially disrupt the shaman from camping his Hierophant. In the case of Tranix, a group seeking to kill fire giants while another group is camp-socking tranix would not materially hinder the solo/duo group from their Tranix, in fact, it would even be helpful if someone kept those pesky FGs down!

In the case of the spore king, a group clearing the jail would be disrupting the king camp in 2 ways. One, the king camp, in a trio, requires a bit of a train, which would cause problems for the group in jail when the train comes right through them. Also, the jail group would be spawning see-invis frogs which would disrupt the King pull.

[Korben]

I think the logic here is moreso, "Does killing the untended mobs materially disrupt the people initially in the camp?". In your example of Hierophant, killing the ICGs, the roaming Ooze, the frog and the other 3 named spawns does not materially disrupt the shaman from camping his Hierophant. In the case of Tranix, a group seeking to kill fire giants while another group is camp-socking tranix would not materially hinder the solo/duo group from their Tranix, in fact, it would even be helpful if someone kept those pesky FGs down!

In the case of the spore king, a group clearing the jail would be disrupting the king camp in 2 ways. One, the king camp, in a trio, requires a bit of a train, which would cause problems for the group in jail when the train comes right through them. Also, the jail group would be spawning see-invis frogs which would disrupt the King pull.

Not even trying to suck dick here but this is one of the most unbiased, actually helpful comments I've seen posted here in a while.

[Raev]

Where do you draw the line over what is an acceptable amount players that can enjoy the same content for whatever purpose and which mobs you require them kill?

then AFK for 30 minutes . . . . than a bunch of dudes do their laundry while pushing the GIVEMEPIXELZPLZ button.

I don't care how many people you have; it's quite easy to 3-man the king from either the zone out or brain rooms and that doesn't bother me nearly as much. My philosophical problem is the AFK nature of the camp and people staying there for 12 hours at a time while they clean their apartments or do schoolwork or whatever.

And as it so happens, unlike the Tranix camp the AFKers have to sit quite a ways away. It's almost impossible to read "must maintain a presence at a camp" and think that a bunch of dudes 5 rooms over are doing this.

I like Mylez interpretation and Guk analogy the best, actually: that if a group of people are AFK in the tube room and another group comes in, they should have the chance to move to the spawn point and keep their camp. If they can't accomplish that reasonably quickly, the other group should be able to move in.

[Korben]

My philosophical problem is the AFK nature of the camp and people staying there for 12 hours at a time.


It's not like he's going to randomly pop during his cycle, why should they be forced to sit attentive at their keys for 60 mins per hour, ready to engage all the nothing that will be coming their way for 55 of the 60 minutes, as long as they're pulling/killing him in a reasonable time after he spawns?

[Raev]

It's not like he's going to randomly pop during his cycle, why should they be forced to sit attentive at their keys for 60 mins per hour, ready to engage all the nothing that will be coming their way for 55 of the 60 minutes, as long as they're pulling/killing him in a reasonable time after he spawns?

Well that depends: is your goal is to obtain pixels or play the game? Camping the king on his spawn point is a great deal of fun and by no means involves waiting around for 55/60 minutes.

[Korben]

Well that depends: is your goal is to obtain pixels or play the game? Camping the king on his spawn point is a great deal of fun and by no means involves nothing for 55/60 minutes.

So starting blankly at am unchanging screen for 55 minutes per hour, knowing nothing at all is going to happen, is better than peeing, working out, eating, etc?

Edit: leaving original reply but didn't see the part about engaging on spawn: why again should we be forced to fight him on his spawn to qualify as 'paying the game', rather than 'requiring more work, players, difficulty, etc' which should be viewed as nothing other than intentionally crippling yourself by ignoring any other tactics

[Ele]

I think the logic here is moreso, "Does killing the untended mobs materially disrupt the people initially in the camp?". In your example of Hierophant, killing the ICGs, the roaming Ooze, the frog and the other 3 named spawns does not materially disrupt the shaman from camping his Hierophant. In the case of Tranix, a group seeking to kill fire giants while another group is camp-socking tranix would not materially hinder the solo/duo group from their Tranix, in fact, it would even be helpful if someone kept those pesky FGs down!

In the case of the spore king, a group clearing the jail would be disrupting the king camp in 2 ways. One, the king camp, in a trio, requires a bit of a train, which would cause problems for the group in jail when the train comes right through them. Also, the jail group would be spawning see-invis frogs which would disrupt the King pull.

Well to that point, Hiero/Tranix snipers camp them on their spawn points. Shouldn't King group be required to do the same? King has a special pull strategy that allows small groups to avoid the content between king and tube room, just like Tranix snipers sometimes train the FGs out to sneak pull Tranix solo.

If the people initially in the camp can not perform their pull without materially disrupting intermediate camps, then they shouldn't be performing that pull when another group wants to take the area that is not being cleared. If that means that the king group has to call it a night, then so be it. Otherwise, they can move closer to the spawn point or coordinate their pull through the LZO group's camp.

[Ella`Ella]

Well that depends: is your goal is to obtain pixels or play the game? Camping the king on his spawn point is a great deal of fun and by no means involves waiting around for 55/60 minutes.

"Obtaining pixels" is playing the game.

[Korben]

"Obtaining pixels" is playing the game.

Apparently not, playing the game means sitting on the spawns you want with a full group, never getting up to take a bathroom break, shower, do laundry, eat hot pockets, etc.

If you even look out the window between spawns you're just wasting everybody's time.

[Daldaen]

Well to that point, Hiero/Tranix snipers camp them on their spawn points. Shouldn't King group be required to do the same? King has a special pull strategy that allows small groups to avoid the content between king and tube room, just like Tranix snipers sometimes train the FGs out to sneak pull Tranix solo.

If the people initially in the camp can not perform their pull without materially disrupting intermediate camps, then they shouldn't be performing that pull when another group wants to take the area that is not being cleared. If that means that the king group has to call it a night, then so be it. Otherwise, they can move closer to the spawn point or coordinate their pull through the LZO group's camp.

Ele posts truth.

[Raev]

Apparently not, playing the game means sitting on the spawns you want with a full group, never getting up to take a bathroom break, shower, do laundry, eat hot pockets, etc.

If you even look out the window between spawns you're just wasting everybody's time.

Whenever people start busting out the strawmen and ad hominems, I know I've won.

P.S. Stay away from the hot pockets, that shit isn't food

[Korben]

Whenever people start busting out the strawmen and ad hominems, I know I've won.

P.S. Stay away from the hot pockets, that shit isn't food

Says the guy who apparently can't differentiate between obtaining pixels and playing the game

[Haynar]

Just wait til you get to enjoy the fun of camping stormfeather.

68 hr camp for me. Two gm interventions. Yes, on eqlive. The gm's had to police the line at the camp when ppl wanted to jump around the line.

H

[monti]

Just wait til you get to enjoy the fun of camping stormfeather.

68 hr camp for me. Two gm interventions. Yes, on eqlive. The gm's had to police the line at the camp when ppl wanted to jump around the line.

H

As far as lines are concerned, I was informed you need explicit permission/agreement saying the camp is yours after they leave. Basically, if one person has the camp, they can pass it to guildies/friends to their hearts content.

Whoever gets it first.

[Velerin]

When you turn in your note to your guildmaster at level 1 instead of your newbie tunic he gives you a fungi.
Problem solved.

[Korben]

When you turn in your note to your guildmaster at level 1 instead of your newbie tunic he gives you a fungi.
Problem solved.

WTS newbie note 5k

[Haynar]

As far as lines are concerned, I was informed you need explicit permission/agreement saying the camp is yours after they leave. Basically, if one person has the camp, they can pass it to guildies/friends to their hearts content.

Whoever gets it first.

GMs made us maintain a presence there. Going LD and coming back, I still allowed person in front of me to keep their spot. I wasnt an ass like some ppl.

He was an 18hr spawn, and could skip spawns. Sucked.

I am sure it will be a headache for GMs here too.

H

[Detoxx]

It's not like he's going to randomly pop during his cycle, why should they be forced to sit attentive at their keys for 60 mins per hour, ready to engage all the nothing that will be coming their way for 55 of the 60 minutes, as long as they're pulling/killing him in a reasonable time after he spawns?

Why? I dont know. If i'm camping something, it is none of your concern what I do during that camp. As long as the main thing you are camping (King) has its PH dead, it's really none of your concern if im doing laundry, homework, or whatever.

I like you Raev, weve talked, but this is the dumbest shit ever man. If you want king, get people there before the others or wait for them to leave, like we do every time we plan on doing the king.

[Ele]

Why? I dont know. If i'm camping something, it is none of your concern what I do during that camp. As long as the main thing you are camping (King) has its PH dead, it's really none of your concern if im doing laundry, homework, or whatever.

I like you Raev, weve talked, but this is the dumbest shit ever man. If you want king, get people there before the others or wait for them to leave, like we do every time we plan on doing the king.

Where is there?

[Daldaen]

Why? I dont know. If i'm camping something, it is none of your concern what I do during that camp. As long as the main thing you are camping (King) has its PH dead, it's really none of your concern if im doing laundry, homework, or whatever.

So camps only need main PHs dead? Sounds fine until someone wants to kill the mobs you purposefully aren't killing.

At which point it becomes your choice whether you elect to start killing said mobs. You elect to leave the camp. You elect to relocate and allow them to kill the mobs they wanted to.

[iruinedyourday]

So camps only need main PHs dead? Sounds fine until someone wants to kill the mobs you purposefully aren't killing.

I think camps just need less a-holes that try to barge in and kill stuff when your pretty obviously killing something.

Just get somewhere, look around, if none are there, then go ahead and take the camp.. if there are two people setting up around the corner for another kill and they arnt on your time table, dont be a prick and be like WELL IM FASTER THAN U RIGHT NOW SO WOMP - - its a bussy server and we all like p99, so chances are if you arnt patient you are not going to get a gamp.

If someone is killing a PH and isnt on your time table, let them, send them a tell, ask wassup and be excellent to each other.

I think what yall should address is a single person holding a camp for 48+ hours or weeks on end.. or a month or two.. there should be something preventing that so that we can share this great game we're all in love with.

share is the key word, stop treating this like a job - be patient, share the world because there are no instances.. Dont make WoW correct for making everything instanced, because 15 years later us people who really love classic EQ cant figure out how to play nice with each other.

[Korben]

I think camps just need less a-holes that try to barge in and kill stuff when your pretty obviously killing something.

[bigsykedaddy]

This is quote from the Play Nice Policy, I take this to mean if a grp rolls down the tube to king camp and a duo is sitting there pulling the PH,They must return "very near" the king spawn. I think we all can agree the tube room is not "very near" the King at all, exit room mabey, thro door near water would be in my opinion "very near" the king.

just my 2 cents.

I hope you all know that before we started doing it in the tube room we did a Enchanter / BP cleric / Monk in the zone out room... that is still 3 people , you can still afk for quite some time. I think everyone needs to just stop QQing so much over everything.

[Haynar]

Set up a camp at little pond. Then report them when they start pulling over the top of you. Problem solved. Oh wait, then u are on a corpse run. Darn.

How about this. Wait til its not camped, and quit trying to figure out rule lawyering ways you can try to steal someone elses camp?

H

[Korben]

I hope you all know that before we started doing it in the tube room we did a Enchanter / BP cleric / Monk in the zone out room... that is still 3 people , you can still afk for quite some time. I think everyone needs to just stop QQing so much over everything.

Will never happen. People will always piss and moan about someone else doing what they want to/can't do themselves.

[bigsykedaddy]

Why the fuck do we always have to break the law book out? 3 people are constantly killing whatever they're after for hours on end, why should you feel like it's your right to move in and take shit from them just because you have 6 people and can sit closer? I seriously don't understand the sense of inherent entitlement people feel they have here.

Oh, hey folks, I see you guys have been consistently killing this mob and are using your knowledge of pull/game mechanics to your advantage, but if you don't mind would you kindly go fuck yourself because me and my 5 friends are going to brute force this trivial encounter. THAT will surely show everybody who is right.

well said

[bigsykedaddy]

Well that depends: is your goal is to obtain pixels or play the game? Camping the king on his spawn point is a great deal of fun and by no means involves waiting around for 55/60 minutes.

I have done it this way and it is fun. I got an idea why don't you wait until the king is not camped and then bring your 6 people or w/e and kill on his spawn point. Why do you have to force people do do things a certain way just because you don't like them. Wait your turn like we do and then you can camp king however you want.

[Korben]

I have done it this way and it is fun. I got an idea why don't you wait until the king is not camped and then bring your 6 people or w/e and kill on his spawn point. Why do you have to force people do do things a certain way just because you don't like them. Wait your turn like we do and then you can camp king however you want.

Yes but if they wait their turn for camps to open, their lawyer exp bar won't move, and they won't have any reason to clog up the petition queue with one sided and most likely false accounts of who did what first.

[bigsykedaddy]

Yes but if they wait their turn for camps to open, their lawyer exp bar won't move, and they won't have any reason to clog up the petition queue with one sided and most likely false accounts of who did what first.


Truth!

[Korben]

Truth!

Sarcasm off for a minute, I don't understand why a lot of these disputes can't be resolved simply by saying.. was someone else there before you? Yes. Were they killing the shit you wanted? Yes. Were you being a sneaky little shit head and/or trying to rule lawyer your way into stealing the shit someone else was camping? If yes, here's a ban for being a despicable turd.

[Ele]

This discussion has split into two different scenarios:

1. Does a second group have the right to "camp" closer to King and claim it, or force the first group to move closer, even though the first group is already using a train away/sneak pull method through jail to the tube room?

2. Does a tube room King group have the exclusive right to monopolize jail/LZO/shrooms even though they do not kill any of those mobs and can they prevent a second group from camping those mobs that the first group doesn't want killed?

2.5 Does the tube room King group that was there first have to change its train/pull strategy to avoid endangering a later arriving LZO group?

[Korben]

This discussion has split into two different scenarios:

1. Does a second group have the right to "camp" closer to King and claim it, or force the first group to move closer, even though the first group is already using a train away/sneak pull method through jail to the tube room?

2. Does a tube room King group have the exclusive right to monopolize jail/LZO/shrooms even though they do not kill any of those mobs and can they prevent a second group from camping those mobs that the first group doesn't want killed?

2.5 Does the tube room King group that was there first have to change its train/pull strategy to avoid endangering a later arriving LZO group?

My thoughts:

1: A group who does this is nothing but scum. It's camped, come back later.

2: People will argue both sides and I'm honestly conflicted, but one thing I am sure about is that killing the mobs just to cock block the tube group means you're a scumbag.

2.5: Again something that I doubt can be argued black and white, but I personally feel that if your arrival severely degrades or stops the primary goal of what another group is doing all together, perhaps as mature adults everyone involved should try to reach an agreement, usually I would hope that favors the group that was there originally.

[nicemace]

My thoughts:


2: People will argue both sides and I'm honestly conflicted, but one thing I am sure about is that killing the mobs just to cock block the tube group means you're a scumbag.


this. while it may be legitimate in the rules. there is virtually no reason as to why a group would move into that area just for exp mobs unless it was going for the king camp. dont even try to say that you want your chance at a cobalt bracer or something.

[Freakish]

Argument 2 is bad. Nobody kills jail / trash shrooms for fun/exp. You kill there because you can pull myconid spore king at the same time.
I would say anyone has the right to camp ilis jail / whatever mobs in the surrounding area as long as they are not being kept down. You would have no right to the king spawn. And you're an asshat because everyone involved knows you're only killing so you can rule lawyer another group out of the camp.

[Ele]

Argument 2 is bad. Nobody kills jail / trash shrooms for fun/exp. You kill there because you can pull myconid spore king at the same time.
I would say anyone has the right to camp ilis jail / whatever mobs in the surrounding area as long as they are not being kept down. You would have no right to the king spawn. And you're an asshat because everyone involved knows you're only killing so you can rule lawyer another group out of the camp.

The second scenario does not pull King, just the stuff tube King group is purposefully not killing.

Are we now judging legitimate camps by whether or not exp/loot is better in another location?

[Daldaen]

The second scenario does not pull King, just the stuff tube King group is purposefully not killing.

Are we now judging legitimate camps by whether or not exp/loot is better in another location?

If this is the case everyone should get out of Overthere except bards. Cause OT is terrible exp outside of a bard AE kiting...

[Freakish]

I covered that. I said the second group is welcome to do that. There's very little logic in doing so unless you want king. Have you ever joined a king group that had trouble pulling ph and said 'Let's just kill the trash'? I haven't. It's pull king or move to disco / ng / disband.

[iruinedyourday]

here's a little rule of thumb to help you out - is someone killing the PH? congratulations you don't get to take the camp!

[Clark]

Why the fuck do we always have to break the law book out? 3 people are constantly killing whatever they're after for hours on end, why should you feel like it's your right to move in and take shit from them just because you have 6 people and can sit closer? I seriously don't understand the sense of inherent entitlement people feel they have here.

Oh, hey folks, I see you guys have been consistently killing this mob and are using your knowledge of pull/game mechanics to your advantage, but if you don't mind would you kindly go fuck yourself because me and my 5 friends are going to brute force this trivial encounter. THAT will surely show everybody who is right.

[Ele]

here's a little rule of thumb to help you out - is someone killing the PH? congratulations you don't get to take the camp!

Okay, so they kill King, what about the other mobs around jail/LZO/shrooms? Do they get to claim and not kill those, if someone wants and will kill them?

[Detoxx]

Okay, so they kill King, what about the other mobs around jail/LZO/shrooms? Do they get to claim and not kill those, if someone wants and will kill them?

I get your devils advocate stance, but its utterly retarded to think anyone wants to kill the jail trash or junk myconids. They are killing them, as butchh said, only to have a chance at king. The only other motive is to be a dick and spawn see invis

[iruinedyourday]

Okay, so they kill King, what about the other mobs around jail/LZO/shrooms? Do they get to claim and not kill those, if someone wants and will kill them?

When i camp tactician if im not killing king and someone wants to then yea sure we share the room and its aewsome.

If someone wanted to kill PH's while i killed a name, that'd be fine with me too.

Yea man, as long as two people are getting along, why not get along.

Its like, to have rules for that would be like having rules about how people should communicate with each other at a bus stop.. just be excellent to eachother :)

[Ele]

I get your devils advocate stance, but its utterly retarded to think anyone wants to kill the jail trash or junk myconids. They are killing them, as butchh said, only to have a chance at king. The only other motive is to be a dick and spawn see invis

or Cobalt bracers or Iksar Boots or exp or spells or just wanting some adventure

[Haynar]

or Cobalt bracers or Iksar Boots or exp or spells or just wanting some adventure

Or farming AAs. Oh wait, we dont have those .... yet.

H

[Ele]

Or farming AAs. Oh wait, we dont have those .... yet.

H

:eek:

[Pint]

Well that depends: is your goal is to obtain pixels or play the game? .

What's the difference?

[iruinedyourday]

Or farming AAs. Oh wait, we dont have those .... yet.

H

lol i love the prospect of aa's appearing in a thread where people are upset that people are 2 pulling the king, which aa's would only make eve more trivial hehe

[Ele]

lol i love the prospect of aa's appearing in a thread where people are upset that people are 2 pulling the king, which aa's would only make eve more trivial hehe

might make them strong enough to actually camp in the King's room

[Korben]

Argument 2 is bad. Nobody kills jail / trash shrooms for fun/exp. You kill there because you can pull myconid spore king at the same time.
I would say anyone has the right to camp ilis jail / whatever mobs in the surrounding area as long as they are not being kept down. You would have no right to the king spawn. And you're an asshat because everyone involved knows you're only killing so you can rule lawyer another group out of the camp.

Absolutely agree.

What % of the population is honestly sitting there bored, and decides to build a group to kill jail/whatever non see invis mobs 'for the classic experience bro'? 0?

[teija]

You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it.

Lets get this thread back on track, as I quoted before this is derubael words from the play nice policy (SERVER RULES).

I think we can all agree that the "tube room" is nowhere fkin near the "king camp". This would be like claiming crypt from NG, or say LCY in karnor's from the fkin entrance of zone. Noone is going to let u claim LCY when u say "me and a buddy are pulling that camp to entrance"

[Korben]

Lets get this thread back on track, as I quoted before this is derubael words from the play nice policy (SERVER RULES).

I think we can all agree that the "tube room" is nowhere fkin near the "king camp". This would be like claiming crypt from NG, or say LCY in karnor's from the fkin entrance of zone. Noone is going to let u claim LCY when u say "me and a buddy are pulling that camp to entrance"

I feel that applying this specific rule to this specific method of pulling King camp is just a way of putting blinders on and ignoring common decency and courtesy in regards to your fellow players.

They are there camping ONE SPECIFIC mob and you want to steal their ONE SPECIFIC mob and are looking for any excuse to steal their ONE SPECIFIC mob, because you feel that you are entitled to fucking people out of a camp because of an interpretation of the general rules.

[Raev]

What's the difference?

This is pretty much the vote split, and it seems to be about 50/50. The people who voted 'spawn-point' are more about chilling with some friends, while the people who voted tube room are about acquiring pixels in the most efficient manner regardless of whether they find that manner enjoyable or not, or perhaps more accurately they find the acquisition of said pixels more rewarding than anything else. I don't know why this continues to surprise me considering how the raid scene works.

Personally my favorite part has always been taking apart the game piece by piece and figuring out how it works. That's why I created my enchanter guide and then later my guild. Speaking of which, I came up with a random idea today. I'm about 95% sure I can solo pull the king to the tube room 100% of the time (HT: Anchorman. Great movie).

Regardless, I think the utilitarian perspective is not really the point here. The point is server rules, which clearly state you must maintain a presence "at the spawn point or very close". I don't think anyone can seriously argue that a tube room group is doing this, which is why all of the True Classic (tm) people are on the side of the full group moving in.

[Uuruk]

rmt alive and well on this server. Seriously who fucking camps tranix that long?

[zanderklocke]

We need groups that can pull all of crypt PHs along with King PH. Make this happen.

I'm thinking that AoE Chardok figures out how to AoE Seb...including all of Shrooms and the Crypt.

[Korben]

the people who voted tube room are about acquiring pixels in the most efficient manner regardless of whether they find that manner enjoyable or not.

Just because they play the game differently does not mean they should be made to forfeit a camp


Personally my favorite part has always been taking apart the game piece by piece and figuring out how it works.


They figured out(or figured out by watching someone else, either way doesn't matter) how to 3man this camp, what's the issue?

The point is server rules, which clearly state you must maintain a presence "at the spawn point or very close". I don't think anyone can seriously argue that a tube room group is doing this, which is why all of the True Classic (tm) people are on the side of the full group moving in.

I would say that this again is a general set of rules that apply in a broad sense to the entire server, not tailored specifically for every individual camp. Honestly, I'd like a ruling on this but there's 50 people who want 200 rulings on 500 disputes in line ahead of me.

I think what we should be asking is: Why should anybody feel they are entitled to steal a camp from somebody just because they can bring more players closer to the spawn?

[teija]

I feel that applying this specific rule to this specific method of pulling King camp is just a way of putting blinders on and ignoring common decency and courtesy in regards to your fellow players.


The server rules are very clear on this. if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn in order to hold it.

tell me korben do you think the "tube room" is near the king camp? I think not.

Not everyone is a douchebag rule lawyer, a grp of 5-6 friends may just be looking for some fun/exp and mabey some loot, and while every fkin camp is seb is camped your sitting in your tube room pulling one mob and claiming the other 30 trash/exp mobs while not even touching them.

[Korben]

rmt alive and well on this server. Seriously who fucking camps tranix that long?

Someone who works from home or something, it's not hard to be awake every 7h 45m

[Korben]

The server rules are very clear on this. if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn in order to hold it.

tell me korben do you think the "tube room" is near the king camp? I think not.

Not everyone is a douchebag rule lawyer, a grp of 5-6 friends may just be looking for some fun/exp and mabey some loot, and while every fkin camp is seb is camped your sitting in your tube room pulling one mob and claiming the other 30 trash/exp mobs while not even touching them.

Do you think it makes you a decent person to steal a camp from somebody who was there before you, consistently killing the mob for any number of hours?

I honestly don't think a group of 5-6 friends is tra-la-la-la'ing their way into Seb to dick around killing mobs that don't drop anything of value either. Even if they were, how does that justify them stealing King?

[teija]

Do you think it makes you a decent person to steal a camp from somebody who was there before you, consistently killing the mob for any number of hours?

A. They are not there before me as they are nowhere near the fkin camp, i give the same respect to someone calling king camp from the entrance of seb before there grp is even in zone.

B. If they are not/will not follow server rules then yes i would feel justified in moving on top of the king camp if they choose not to.

[Raev]

EverQuest is a competitive game, bro. If you can't hack it, whine about the rules and the other players who are better NP

[Korben]

A. They are not there before me as they are nowhere near the fkin camp, i give the same respect to someone calling king camp from the entrance of seb before there grp is even in zone.

B. If they are not/will not follow server rules then yes i would feel justified in moving on top of the king camp if they choose not to.

If you honestly believe that telling them to go fuck themselves mid-respawn cycle is a reasonably justifiable thing to do, I feel bad for you as a person because you have a deeply flawed moral compass. You believe that you can stroll in to a camp, law book in hand, and use it as a cudgel to evict other players who had already been there ahead of you.

And to your point B, I think that anybody should use their best discretion instead of their best attorney when playing EQ. If you can't be decent to your fellow player, whats the point in playing?

[Haynar]

The server rules are very clear on this. if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn in order to hold it.

tell me korben do you think the "tube room" is near the king camp? I think not.
Whats next? The staff has to make maps of all camps to show acceptable locations for groups to be?

If its not one thing, it will be something else.

Get a life, and wait til its not camped. Geesh.

H

[teija]

Whats next? The staff has to make maps of all camps to show acceptable locations for groups to be?

If its not one thing, it will be something else.

Get a life, and wait til its not camped. Geesh.

H

haynar ill ask you the same question, you think the tube room is "near" the king spawn? If not then u agree with me as per server rules.

[Korben]

3) Global Server Rules / Play Nice Policy

These rules apply to all Project 1999 servers unless otherwise specified.

Players are subject to these supplementary rules while playing on Project 1999. While these are by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts on Project 1999, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate. HEY, THIS PART IS BASICALLY TELLING YOU THAT AS AN ADULT YOU SHOULD HAVE A MORAL COMPASS THAT CAN HELP YOU MAKE DECISIONS AND NOT BE A SCUMBAG

Arbitration / Camps
In issues of disruptions or interference such as a camp dispute, players are required to work together to reach a compromise. SHOULD NOT BE INTERPRETED AS TELLING ANOTHER GROUP TO EAT SHIT WHILE YOU STEAL THEIR MOBS

If this cannot be accomplished prior to the involvement of a Project 1999 CSR Staff Member, the CSR will mandate a solution. A CSR Solution is final and not open to debate. Refusal to abide by the direction of a CSR will result in account disciplinary for disruptive behavior.

Due to the busy nature of the CSR and possible lack of factual information, the solution reached may not be to the best interest of both parties (a "lose-lose" situation). It is for this reason that players are highly suggested to reach a compromise on their own.

The Project 1999 Staff does not define what constitutes a camp, and disputes are arbitrated on a case by case basis. A CSR's ruling may be different than previous rulings based on any number of circumstances, including (but not limited to) players involved and their history, behavior / attitude of the players, and facts gathered by the CSR.

In general, a player should maintain a presence at or very near the spawn of the camp they are intending to hold, while keeping the placeholders of any relevant spawns dead. It is allowed to 'camp' multiple areas if there are no other players interested in doing so, however if another party is interested in moving into one of your camps, you must chose which one to keep and maintain your presence there. THIS IS THE PART WHERE RULE LAWYERS REALLY EARN THEIR PAY, OFTEN THE ONLY THING QUOTED, BECAUSE POSTING THIS ENTIRE SECTION IN FULL WOULD IMPLY THEY TOOK THE REST OF THE RULES SERIOUSLY, AND DIDN'T JUST TWIST THEM TO SUIT THEIR OWN NEEDS



It's funny how people seem to forget about certain parts of this and only post the parts that make their argument appear stronger. It looks to me like the staff would like to see people act like adults, not shitty little lawyers over everything in the game.

[Haynar]

haynar ill ask you the same question, you think the tube room is "near" the king spawn? If not then u agree with me as per server rules.
I dont make or debate the rules.

Figuring how to pull to tube room is brilliant, but sucks u need a rogue.

Camping tube room is safer than zoneout, less risks of being trained.

So what is the question? Its clear they are camping the King. Should the rules be applied verbatim to allow someone else to steal the camp? Or should the camp rules be made more generic and people who steal camps of contested names get banned?

I am for the latter. But I leave the rule making to others.

But it does need investigated if such a pull should be possible. Which is what I will do.

H

[zanderklocke]

Figuring how to pull to tube room is brilliant, but sucks u need a rogue.


Do not need a rogue for this.

[Korben]

Do not need a rogue for this.

He might have been caught up in the 15-page fuckfest that is people trying to justify stealing a mob that is clearly camped.

[Haynar]

I will be honest, I didnt read the details how to pull it.

Sorry

H

[teija]

The greedy pixel farmers are not the good guys here. You get no sympathy from me when u sock king in tube for 16hrs and corpse 4-5fungi's, just to pass the camp off to your next socking buddy.

[Korben]

The greedy pixel farmers are not the good guys here. You get no sympathy from me when u sock king in tube for 16hrs and corpse 4-5fungi's, just to pass the camp off to your next socking buddy.

Now it's the 'filthy casuals' versus the big mean 'players with lots of time'?

So now that's how we justify stealing someone's clearly camped mobs?

[teija]

Now it's the 'filthy casuals' versus the big mean 'players with lots of time'?

So now that's how we justify stealing someone's clearly camped mobs?

If people dont like the server rules thats fine, lets change them, but as it stands the rules clearly state u must stay near a camp, and im sure 98% of the population would say the tube room is nowhere near the king spawn.

[Korben]

If people dont like the server rules thats fine, lets change them, but as it stands the rules clearly state u must stay near a camp, and im sure 98% of the population would say the tube room is nowhere near the king spawn.


From the PNP, and my post you chose to ignore:

Players are subject to these supplementary rules while playing on Project 1999. While these are by no means an all-inclusive list of the do's and don'ts on Project 1999, it provides a suitable foundation by which the player can determine what activities are appropriate.

I don't know how you can interpret that to mean "Use these rules to steal camps from players"

[Byrjun]

The greedy pixel farmers are not the good guys here. You get no sympathy from me when u sock king in tube for 16hrs and corpse 4-5fungi's, just to pass the camp off to your next socking buddy.

Just because you don't agree with what they spend their time on doesn't mean you get to just roll in and steal their camp. That's scummier than camping something for 16 hours.

Maybe you spend 10 hours a day playing Hearthstone, what if I told you that you have to give me 50,000 platinum because I don't agree with you spending 10 hours on Hearthstone?

This thread is silly.

[iruinedyourday]

might make them strong enough to actually camp in the King's room

1 enchanter or sham sitting at king spawn all year long without ever logging off =X

[Korben]

1 enchanter or sham sitting at king spawn all year long without ever logging off =X

pras

[Freakish]

Sounds like we need a C/R/FFA rotation on spore king.

[Haynar]

Sounds more about who has the camp. And who thinks they are more entitled to the camp.

H

[Tasslehofp99]

I'm in the middle on this one.


Any other camp you normally have to be within sight of the mob's spawn you're camping. I don't see why king should be any different, really. I personally don't care either way but I could see how some others would.

I mean a group could still move in down there for exp according to the rules but this could/would force the king group to move closer (if they could, assuming it was a trio or whatever) which would bring about other disputes.

[Rais]

That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders cleared. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it. It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone, you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding. The player holding multiple 'camps' retains the right to choose which 'camp' to give up.


Tube room is no where near king. So contest it, and wait while they can't clear the placeholder at or very near the spawn. PH spawns, they wipe or can't pull claim the camp. Pretty easy to do. The wording on the entire camp thing is a hodgepodge of not wanting to deal with defining a camp. Not something you should kick down onto the next ruling and just say things can be ruled differently for each camp.

It was easy in the past of if you aren't there, it isn't your camp. There was that small area where if you were claiming two camps, you had to pick one if someone wanted to move in. This was thrown out the window and this was made. It should be cleared up. Camping a fucking mob half way across the zone by only pulling the ph isn't legit and wrong.

[Ravager]

All camp disputes should be settled by pistols at dawn.

[Buellen]

make al OS mob see invis enough said.

[dustysr06]

Korben, u have said ur piece- at least 32 times in this thread. Move along omg...

I think this camp is sort of like betrayer in chardok- if a group wants to take betrayer from the aoe group they can right? I haven't been active on blue in a while or chardok for much longer than that but last I knew that was the case. This should be considered the same thing- just instead of killing one ph and nothing else the group is pulling the pH along with 100 other mobs.

[runlvlzero]

Mostly this thread is a reflection of my irritation that the king camp is constantly occupied by trios of people who train out the right side and then sneak pull to the left, then AFK for 30 minutes. Meanwhile, the actual spore king camp (on his spawn point, not in the zone out room) is a ton of fun and requires a real group of L60 players. So personally I think it would be way more fun to watch full groups constantly wipe on the spawn point of the king than a bunch of dudes do their laundry while pushing the GIVEMEPIXELZPLZ button.

edit: this was not clear originally, but I dont care what people do if the camp is uncontested. I just think full groups should be able to move to his spawn point and ignore the 3 man AFK teams.

OP sounds dangerously immersed and this thread belongs in RnF.

I vote no one gets the king unless the pull him to traks spawn point.

[nicemace]

easy way to combat this would be have a monk buddy FD in king room while being part of your group. he can go afk for the night. you keep pulling king to tube room. they come to contest camp. your 'group' is clearing all required mobs (the ph) while keeping a 'force' in the room.

[Korben]

easy way to combat this would be have a monk buddy FD in king room while being part of your group. he can go afk for the night. you keep pulling king to tube room. they come to contest camp. your 'group' is clearing all required mobs (the ph) while keeping a 'force' in the room.

They'd just lawyer back that the monk cannot solo king so he cannot hold the spawn. Lawyers are stupid.