Spice it up!

[yaeger]

I love the classic experience. I love the sense of adventure, excitement, and nostalgia of having a classic server.

That being said, I think we need to spice it up. Move outside of the purist classic sense, and move towards a 'classic experience'. Attempt to recreate the classic feeling of discovery and adventure. Re-learn how your class works and learning other classes, not just being able to google something and read everything about your class for the next 60 levels.

A couple ideas to consider:

1 - Move the high-profile items to like-level monsters every couple of months or so. Let people search for the items by clearing through dungeons again, rediscovering the loot tables. For example: instead of the FBSS dropping from the frenzied ghoul in LGuk, move it to a similar mob in Kedge, then after a month or two move it to a random like-level mob in Hate or Fear.

Periodically change the high-profile item locations so it'll keep the farmers and everyone else occupied for a while, create that classic-like secrecy when you find a nice drop, and stop the perma-camping.

2 - Tweak various classes. Now there's a lot of different opinions out there, but I feel that you Developers have a good idea of the relative strength and weakness of each class, and their role to play.

For example, I think everyone can agree that rangers are weak in Classic. Give them a minor tweak, something unique to Rangers to make them more attractive to groups and make them worth their -40% exp penalty. A small adjustment goes a long way.

It doesn't have to be anything big, but it'll go a long way towards giving the game that "Classic Feel" that we all experienced back in the day.

[Starklen]

no

[Ponden]

What the hell?

[Dantes]

Somebody goin' git verbally raped.

[yaeger]

no

No? Why no? No changes? No new experiences? No new challenges?

We call this a classic server. But it's not.

The mobs, graphics, and items are for the most part. Kudos to the devs. However, it's predicable. The standard on the server to pick one of 5 classes, shoot up to 50, and twink out a main. All the item drops and locations are known. All raid strategies are known.

None of this is classic, yet we do nothing. Let me give you an example:

In classic, groups would enter LGuk and clear the zone. In the beginning there were no known camps, no one knew what named were there, what PHers, what loot they dropped. They discovered it.

In P1999, people would find the 'best' class after going over multiple old forums and comparing to their experience. They'd race to LGuk, bypass all the existing content, and go directly to the named PHer and set up camp, knowing exactly how often the mob will spawn and how frequently the loot will drop.

Do you see the glaring difference?

[Tiggles]

I'm a republican I hate change.

[Qaedain]

Do you see the glaring difference?

Yes, but there is no reason why this has to compromise the goal of recreating classic EverQuest, which your ideas do not harmonize with.

[yaeger]

Yes, but there is no reason why this has to compromise the goal of recreating classic EverQuest, which your ideas do not harmonize with.

I don't understand why it all-of-a-sudden becomes non-classic if we shuffle the loot around some. It's still all there, it's still the same, it'll sell for the same.

It will create a challenge that was present during the Classic era that is NOT here in P1999.

[Toony]

pass

[yaeger]

pass

Could you provide a little more feedback as to why you think any of the ideas are bad?

Posting one word statements doesn't help one way or the other.

[Toony]

Could you provide a little more feedback as to why you think any of the ideas are bad?

Posting one word statements doesn't help one way or the other.

No.

[Curmudgen]

An analogy that comes to mind....

Guys I love what you have done with classic coke! Now let's spice it up a bit and change it around so it's like dr pepper!

I know that's not it exactly, but I think people here interpret classic to mean as close as possible to how it was.

[Putrid]

Could you provide a little more feedback as to why you think any of the ideas are bad?

Posting one word statements doesn't help one way or the other.

pretty much everyones trying to be nice but ill let you know what they think.

Its a stupid idea, if you don't enjoy the nostalgic Classic feel GTFO!!!!!

[Aandolaf]

The goal is to re-create how everquest was in 1999, not necessarily how it felt.

Although I don't believe these changes would be appropriate for this server, I think it would be interesting if another server was done this way. Pretty much, take classic everquest and change everything. Change which races start in which cities, where mobs are, what mobs drop what, etc. I think it would be cool to have to start over and re-discover everything again.

[yaeger]

pretty much everyones trying to be nice but ill let you know what they think.

Its a stupid idea, if you don't enjoy the nostalgic Classic feel GTFO!!!!!

That's the whole point! There is no Classic nostalgic feel. The community is not classic, there's no challenge, everything is already figured out.

I hope Kunark isn't the same ole thing. Everyone switches over to the flavor of the month class they made in preparation to the Kunark release. Everyone else makes a sprint to perma-camp the top Kunark drops.

Nobody else is bothered by all the posts likeAfter some thought, I have decided I will definetly revive my Ranger. It seems alot of people have a low opinion of the Ranger class, my goal will be to change that, through exemplary skill and magnetic personality. I will be starting a druid 1st though so I can gear up my Ranger alittle, if twinking is allowed.?

Seriously, it's now a standard on the server to level up another class so you can be successful as another? This is just an example of a very common type of post and opinion in game.

Nothing FEELS classic about any of it.

[Ponden]

If you want custom content, go play another server.

[cured]

That's asking a lot of developers who aren't getting paid by Sony to make this experience what it is. There are already enough bugfixes, hotfixes, corpse recoveries, unsticking, item recovery types of jobs they're dealing with now.

[purist]

I thought this thread was gonna be about melty, crunchy, spicy grilled.

[yaeger]

That's asking a lot of developers who aren't getting paid by Sony to make this experience what it is. There are already enough bugfixes, hotfixes, corpse recoveries, unsticking, item recovery types of jobs they're dealing with now.

I agree that it's a lot of stuff to put on the Devs, but ultimately they'll have to decide what they have time for and what they don't.

Another idea is to move the high-profile item drops to ultra rare zone-wide drops like they did in later expansions. This would provide incentive for groups to gather up in dungeons and for people to play these non-farming classes when there is no current need to beyond raids.

During the time I played in EQ classic, I don't remember people soloing down in LGuk or any of the upper tier dungeons. Groups were the norm. Supporting and providing an atmosphere for a growing community on the server is what I want to see. A reason to group up beyond leveling to 50.

Just some non-classic ideas to provide a more classic experience.

[ride the spiral]

here is a one word statement that provides the feedback you desire:

dumb

[Ponden]

ultimately they'll have to decide what they have time for and what they don't

They don't have time for these retarded ideas.

[Tiggles]

They don't have time for these retarded ideas.

^

[yaeger]

What's so wrong about them?

Things like balance tweaks and itemization changes are a bad idea? How so?

And how exactly will they detract from the Classic 'feel'?

[Putrid]

thread is pointless sir, this server will never change. if your not happy with it, go whack off to your pipe dreams somewhere else. There was Soloing and duoing throughout all of EQ history, don't even think thats true cause thats one of the dumbest statements, you've said on this whole thread.

And you say that making a ULTRA RARE ZONE-WIDE DROPS like they did in later expansions would provide incentive for groups!

Just some non-classic ideas to provide a more classic experience?
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
Fucking oxymoron, know what that means?
Know what self-contradiction means?


be realistic here, Damn devs made a dream come true for many. So if your not whacking off to the idea that they decided to do it for free for the good of many, like i said go whack it off somewhere else.

[Putrid]

What's so wrong about them?

Things like balance tweaks and itemization changes are a bad idea? How so?

And how exactly will they detract from the Classic 'feel'?

UHHH IDK MAYBE CUASE IT WOULDN'T BE CLASSIC ANYMORE?

http://www.exceler8ion.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/oxymoron.jpg

do you get it now?

[Putrid]

http://www.exceler8ion.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/oxymoron.jpg

[yaeger]

thread is pointless sir, this server will never change. if your not happy with it, go whack off to your pipe dreams somewhere else. There was Soloing and duoing throughout all of EQ history, don't even think thats true cause thats one of the dumbest statements, you've said on this whole thread.

And you say that making a ULTRA RARE ZONE-WIDE DROPS like they did in later expansions would provide incentive for groups!

Just some non-classic ideas to provide a more classic experience?
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
Fucking oxymoron, know what that means?
Know what self-contradiction means?


be realistic here, Damn devs made a dream come true for many. So if your not whacking off to the idea that they decided to do it for free for the good of many, like i said go whack it off somewhere else.

You guys ever pause to go through the patch notes and compare and contrast the changes they made since Classic was released?

I wish you guys would provide more constructive criticism. For instance grouping experience bonus for a full group was 20% in classic, whereas it's 10% here. A lot of the things that held back some classes has not been introduced here such as mage bolt spells, snare/root overrides. I could go on and on.

The point is, why isn't one of my changes actually LESS of a deviation from Classic than this server is now? Do you think balance is exactly like it was during classic? No.

I applaud that so many of you are smart that you can play 1 of 5 solo classes and exceed admirably. Soloing and Duoing has always been a part of EQ, but do you ever remember solo classes gaining double the experience of a full group?

All of the changes I propose try to reinforce the idea of grouping. Doing things as a group, it's everything Classic was and P1999 seems to fail at doing.

It's not just the mechanics we should try to make Classic.. but the whole experience.

[Noselacri]

What's so wrong about them?

Things like balance tweaks and itemization changes are a bad idea? How so?

And how exactly will they detract from the Classic 'feel'?

What's wrong with it is the fact that it wouldn't be classic, and the sole purpose of this server is to recreate that. It's really as simple as that. It would become a different game, and once you start making changes that aren't canon it'll be hard to set a limit. It would send the message that players can vote, petition, suggest and demand changes that would suit them better, and since there's a million poor and old-fashioned aspects to EQ, there would be no end to what people would want changed.

Almost everyone on this server plays here precisely because it's an almost exact replica of EQ anno 1999. The only things that aren't exactly right are the things that the devs haven't been able to change, or remaining bugs that are waiting to be fixed, and they're insignificant enough that they don't detract from the feel. Inventing new changes - even minor ones, and especially ones as huge as drop tables and class balance - would probably alienate the vast majority of the playerbase.

Really, if you want "EQ with various changes to make gameplay easier or more pleasant" there's a wide variety of custom servers. They won't have as many players as this one, but that's probably because those changes removed the spirit of Everquest. Every single thing you do that deviates from canon will make the game less appealing to the type of player who tends to look for a classic emu server, and there's just no reason to do it, especially when the server has more than enough players to support an unaltered classic environment.

[Putrid]

You guys ever pause to go through the patch notes and compare and contrast the changes they made since Classic was released?

uh pretty much?

I wish you guys would provide more constructive criticism.

Hmmmmm, its hard for you isnt it, how are we supposed to give you contructive criticism, when everything you say is, self contradicting, not to mention no one really would want to support a dumb idea for a already bad ass server.

For instance grouping experience bonus for a full group was 20% in classic, whereas it's 10% here. A lot of the things that held back some classes has not been introduced here such as mage bolt spells, snare/root overrides. I could go on and on.

MY point exactly, on the self contradictions, your throwing out all these wild ideas, that would make the server non classic, and stating that it will make it more classic?

and if you believe they need it to be 20% group exp, talk about that because if thats how it was on opening day, its up for discussion.

All of the changes I propose try to reinforce the idea of grouping. Doing things as a group, it's everything Classic was and P1999 seems to fail at doing.

you have so many ideas why dont you just start with one?
and grouping is fine minus the bugs on zoning while in a group, missing group chat after zoning. When you get into a group you do what? work together. Well idk what kinda groups you've been in but everyone ive been in successfully accomplished some kind of goal.

[Falisaty]

Move this pissing contest to rants and flames plz!!!

[yaeger]

That's my whole point Putrid. The server can make all the changes it wants to try and be exactly like Classic, but it'll never be exactly like Classic.

Sure the a_froglok_shaman will cast Freeze, and hit for 50 damage in melee, and run at 20% health. Whatever.

What's more glaring is the discrepancies between the gameplay in a comparison. There is no discovery, no exploration, no unforeseen danger. The standard is to level up a solo class first because it's been proven that it's 'easier' and you can easily farm solo.

None of that is Classic. The thing that more defined Classic EQ was the gameplay aspect. The reliance on groups that formed a strong community on the server and encouraged players to do thing together.

We have 11 years to know all the strategies, shortcuts, tactics, and differences in balance. We have our characters all planned out through Velious while looking ahead at all the patch notes we'll ever see.

I loved Classic, this is the closest approximation that I've run across, by why does that mean that we can't try to make it more Classic. I recommended that we change some of the loot tables, because I feel it'll bring back the old classic 'dungeon crawl for loot' that it not in P1999's gameplay. I feel like adding that would bring it closer to Classic than what we have now.

That's what I was proposing, not moving away from Classic. But moving gameplay towards classic.

[RKromwell]

Want something that isn't a flame?

The loot tables for each mob include quest items. Each mob has a % to drop any item on it's loot table. It is set for that one mob. How would you like to farm a mob for hours and hours for a quest item, that because of your random world loot idea, was now dropping from something else? I was in DC for a week killing Aqua Goblin Tidal lords for that freaking water ring. In your vision, that ring could have been dropping off something else, in another part of the world.

[Putrid]

There is no discovery, no exploration, no unforeseen danger.

well theres no way thats going to change man i understand where you coming from, past is past and now is now, deal with what you got and make the best of it. It you have ideas to make it more like it was in 1999 then do so, but things off the wall just aint going to debated at all

[yaeger]

Want something that isn't a flame?

The loot tables for each mob include quest items. Each mob has a % to drop any item on it's loot table. It is set for that one mob. How would you like to farm a mob for hours and hours for a quest item, that because of your random world loot idea, was now dropping from something else? I was in DC for a week killing Aqua Goblin Tidal lords for that freaking water ring. In your vision, that ring could have been dropping off something else, in another part of the world.

Sorry if I confused you. I said high-profile items. Low level gear, quest items and such would remain unaffected. Raid drops would remain unaffected.

What I meant were things like FBSS, Fungi Tunic, GEBs, etc. 'Handpicked' items by the Devs. Every couple of months just discreetly move them to another named mobs loot table.

[RKromwell]

And that would take up a ton of time that is better spent on other things. The devs here do not collect a pay check and keeping things the way they should be takes far to much time as it is.

[Noselacri]

why does that mean that we can't try to make it more Classic. I recommended that we change some of the loot tables

You keep making these insane contradictions. How would implementing something completely new and non-classic make it more classic? It won't, nor will it change the gameplay environment to something more similar way to your seemingly skewed perception of live classic where apparently noone farmed, soloed or twinked. People did all those things back in the day, and the main reason it's more common now is the fact that we're all a decade older and might find frequent soloing to be better suited to our current lives. "Spicing it up" wouldn't change much more than the size of the playerbase.

The only thing you've brought up that isn't completely outrageous and entirely at odds with the chief purpose of this server is the somewhat unimpressive group vs. solo exp rate, and that has been discussed for some time now and will probably be officially addressed at some point. Making custom changes to the game would invalidate the entire reason for the server's existence, cheapen the experience, open the floodgates for endless wild ideas and demands, and alienate most of the players. If you're looking for a new experience, go play a new game.

It's not as if everyone plays a magician or druid. There's plenty of grouping going on, there's plenty of players who play group-oriented classes, and soloing has relatively little influence on those who aren't looking for solo content themselves. With the exception of a select few of the most profitable named mobs, every dungeon is wide open for groups and often full of them.

[yaeger]

And that would take up a ton of time that is better spent on other things. The devs here do not collect a pay check and keeping things the way they should be takes far to much time as it is.

I realize that, that's why I've been focusing on easy to implement changes. Copy and pasting to and from loot tables shouldn't be too difficult. But hopefully the effect on gameplay will be enough to justify it.

[Noselacri]

Well, it's a useless thing to keep discussing. No amount of arguing will ever get the devs to so much as briefly consider your idea. There's simply no chance that they would ever do it; it's not about selling the idea, everyone is obviously strongly opposed to it. It's a bit silly to keep fighting for a change that's absolutely impossible.

[mgellan]

Personally I think this idea will be poorly received on a Classic server - the players are here for one reason, a Classic experience.

Now, if you wanted to make a custom server with death penalties, CRs, complex quests, new zone layouts IN THE CLASSIC STYLE (ie hard!) I'd play there.... but not here.

Regards,
Mg

[yaeger]

You keep making these insane contradictions. How would implementing something completely new and non-classic make it more classic?

It's not so insane.. you can explain it with math. Now, there are common spheres that make up an MMO (content, gameplay, balance, etc).

Let's represent these contributions as to how they'd compare to Classic EQ with respect to group gameplay and content:

(ContentP1999/ContentClassic) * (GrpgameplayP1999/GrpgameplayClassic) = % P1999 is of ClassicEQ

so if currently the server is at:

95% * 85% = 81% true to Classic

if we calculate it with the proposed changes.. -2% to content but +3% gameplay:

93% * 88% = 82% true to Classic

So, while I didn't define the metrics or provide a method of objective comparison, I have proved that you CAN introduce a change away from Classic and yet end up with the server being closer to Classic.

It won't, nor will it change the gameplay environment to something more similar way to your seemingly skewed perception of live classic where apparently noone farmed, soloed or twinked. People did all those things back in the day, and the main reason it's more common now is the fact that we're all a decade older and might find frequent soloing to be better suited to our current lives.

I'm sorry, you misinterpreted me. I'm not saying that NO ONE solo'd, farmed solo, or twinked. But rather few did/could successfully due to knowledge (no focus items, camp timers, splitting techniques, etc) or availability.

People will always take the path of least resistance. However, the goal should be to promote cooperation when such a non-classic class demographic has been show by database queries that have been sorted by class.

[Rasterburn]

The thing that more defined Classic EQ was the gameplay aspect. The reliance on groups that formed a strong community on the server and encouraged players to do thing together.

I agree with the above statement.

What I do not see is how any of the changes which you have proposed will help to foster the sort of classic community that you seek. The only thing I see is that it will make it even easier for most people to solo for their gear, instead of grouping.

[jarooneh]

Great idea for a new server. I'd play there just to experience "classic content" mixed up.

I default to google when I am doing a quest. On a server like that I would actually have to figure out what to do, how to encounter, what to say to quest NPC's.

Sounds like a whole new game with classic characters, models and content. Would be even better if quest NPC's, mobs, drops and encounters all changed for those quests too. Instead of saying "ABC" you must say "ABC". Instead of getting a "vial of..." you now need "this and that". Instead of a mob being on a 7 day timer its now 9.5 days and pops in a diff zone.

Otherwise, that dungeon crawl would be done in a week and every mob will have been figured out ;-)

Cool idea, wouldn't fly on this server. Put together a dev team, save some money for hosting, do all of the "mixing up" and put that server up!

[Qaedain]

I don't understand why it all-of-a-sudden becomes non-classic if we shuffle the loot around some. It's still all there, it's still the same, it'll sell for the same.

It's still all there, it's still the same, it'll sell for the same, it's not on the same mob.

One of these things is not like the other.

[Exelyon]

Your idea is good in theory, but it won't work. For starters, any kind of loot shuffle would spice things up for a week or two. Necros and Mages still know what they can solo and will still camp the same mobs. If you're thinking of putting them on a random mob in the zone, sorry but they solo those too. Not to mention the fact that it's completely nonsensical to move items from the named in regards to a helping the part of the "classic feel" that you're talking about.

Like I said though, somehow recreating the classic feel of the unknown (which is more "classic" than grouping or anything else) is a good idea. You would have to pretty much just create a whole new game though. Since you're overwhelming focused on encouraging grouping, the number one way to do that is to recreate the unknown. When you enter a zone and the only information you acquire is what the first 3 or 4 mobs con; that's when groups are formed. Necros and Mages will still solo explore, but there wont be 10 of them set up at random points across the zone flooding the market with items nobody knows exist yet.

Despite so many of the previous posters just completely misinterpreting what YOU mean when you refer to the classic feel, many are right that it would be absurd for the guys doing p1999 to attempt it. Too much money, time, etc, not to mention the fact that they might as well get paid if they're making a whole new game.

[Darenenski]

Ya! We could even rename this to ProjectWTF?

Seriously, did you eat some bad shrooms?

[Arclanz]

The idea is awesome...to me who has been on this server for a month or two. But not to someone new to the server who wants to relive classic; if the loot tables are all switched around; that'd deter some folks from coming / staying.

Love the idea, though.

[Serrack]

Sounds like somebody is having Ranger Regret in a hell level (45?) and is tired of never finding Frenzy open for that overpriced FBSS.

[Wizerud]

Even if the majority of people accepted your idea and the devs agreed to implement it, the only way it could work is if you shuffled the loot tables around way more frequently than you're suggesting. I'm talking like every week at most. Otherwise you're merely shuffling camps from one zone to another. As soon as word gets out where the FBSS is now dropping everyone camping it now will move to the new zone. Secrets are just not kept very well in EQ, never have been.

The only things I'd like to see changed from classic to P99 are the ones where the original devs admitted were mistakes in the first place. 40% xp penalty in hybrids. Hell levels. Alchemy not working ...oh wait.

That and increasing the xp bonus for grouping.

[alexandervaccaro]

+1 for getting rid of hybrid exp penalty, balancing classes, and increasing group xp bonus.

other ideas are pretty meh sauce

[Lagaidh]

They resist you yaeger (and so do I) because we want the original game. I fully understand your point about the feeling, but that is not the purpose of this server and it will not be.

And... none of us will fully get that feeling again. That feeling comes from your first MMO. At least, that's what I have come to believe over the years. It's like virginity... you can't lose it twice.

[Dantes]

I'll give you some constructive criticism. First of all, it would take all of 10 seconds to discover a new loot drop location. We have phones, message boards, IM, text messages, voice chat. It doesn't solve the problem of everyone knowing where everything is, it just causes a minor annoyance and delay.

Second, anybody who attempts to balance classes is going to bite off more than they can chew. As soon as one change is implemented, other classes would be bitching for changes to be made to their class. What about Rogues? What about Paladins? What about Bards? You can't please everyone, and if you try to the balance will get so FUBAR there will be no turning back.

[LizardNecro]

Hi Yaeger. I think some of the comments by other posters are unwarranted and troll like in their response. Those posters do not represent this community.

Personally, I am in favor of:

* Make it so hybrids don't steal xp from groups.

I would implement this change now, as right now hybrids are not invited to groups because they steal xp from others. Verant eventually fixed this after I personally pestered them and raised awareness for over a year (I was the prerson that published the first test to prove that hybrids steal xp, so this is an issue close to my heart).

As for the changes you proposed of random loot, I'm not sure this affects your core concern. I'm not sure this would bring back the "magic". I can see it instead just being a frustrating experience for many players.

You also proposed class tweaks. This sounds tempting, but there are other great EMU servers where this is done. For example, there is the hidden forest (http://www.eqemulator.org/index.php?pageid=serverinfo&worldid=792). It has custom balanced classes. This might be a server that would be fun for you to explore!

[BlazeKING]

Why don't we all just get together and take a selective amnesia drug and then play again. Obviously Rogean couldn't take the drug because someone has to tell us about the game and to play the game since we wouldn't remember it.

;)