I'm a mormon, too! Take that, stereotypes.

[Shrubwise]

I saw this ad on a real estate website I use.

http://www.thefirstruleaboutfightclubisyoudonttalkaboutfi ghtclub.com/images/ImAMormonToo.jpg

The text on the right changes from:

I'm a Harley rider.
A collector of junk.
And I'm a Mormon.

My question is this, has anyone ever met anyone as cool/badass who was a Mormon? All the Mormons I know refrain from using swear words and drinking coffee. It's got to be a fake IMHO!

[Taxi]

The only mormon i ever came across was this guy i grouped with once in a while in lord of the rings online. Id say fuck and what not and hed send me tells like could you please not take the name of the lord in vain? I was cracking up cuz i thought he was joking, but no, i eventually found out he was a mormon.

[Uggie]

The only mormon i ever came across was this guy i grouped with once in a while in lord of the rings online. Id say fuck and what not and hed send me tells like could you please not take the name of the lord in vain? I was cracking up cuz i thought he was joking, but no, i eventually found out he was a mormon.

Love the way the only mormon you have met is online lol Ever had any real life experiences? ;) Not having a go just thought it was funny.

An ex came from a mormon background, she definitely didn't practice what she preached when it suited her lol

[Taxi]

Love the way the only mormon you have met is online lol Ever had any real life experiences? ;) Not having a go just thought it was funny.

An ex came from a mormon background, she definitely didn't practice what she preached when it suited her lol

Im from Montreal, religion here has gone the way of the Dodo. My uncle is actually a bible guy, from north of the province, but their philosophy is "you go to heaven as long as you have faith that god exists" so its pretty straightforward and just 1 rule to follow, beleive in god.

I was talking to him recently and i was gauging if i should point the things that dont make sense in what he was saying about god, but hes one of those guys that god "saved" so religion is the duct tape holding the whole structure together. Remove a couple of his illusions and the whole building might come crashing down, so i left it alone.

[Noleafclover]

Lol, there was a rogue on here, "Godblessyou," got so butthurt about any language. I couldn't tell if it was an act or not, but he played it really well if so.

Feel sorry for the guy if not - with the name, people were all "goddamn this" or "jesus christ!" that. Think he might have quit the internet for good and moved to Tibet.

[guineapig]

I have to deal with young Mormon missionaries in my building. They usually just say hello to me and occasionally I'll say hello back.

Once they knocked on our apartment door to evangelize and my wife threatened to have them evicted from the building. (They are not supposed to be soliciting tenants). I actually gave her a hi-five that day. Needless to say they haven't dared to do that a second time.

My company has an IT department in SLC Utah so a bunch of those guys are Mormons too. They are nice enough people I guess but I have basically nothing in common with them. They are also exceedingly boring to talk to.

Reading about the origins of that religion just boggles the mind really. I'm surprised more people don't form cults. People are so easy to sway.

[azeth]

the South Park episode about Joseph Smith and the Mormons is horrifyingly accurate.

including the ending where the mormon kid lets everyone know how crazy it is for them to look down on his religion, because to him it's just a family bond and it keeps him out of trouble.

for real though, how can you buy into the Joe Smith story?

[Toony]

Im from Montreal, religion here has gone the way of the Dodo.

You should alert all the people attending services at the little red dots on this map

http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=montreal+churches&fb=1&gl=us&hq=churches&hnear=Montreal,+QC,+Canada&ei=QuiITIm5LYSg8ASNi8jgDg&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CDsQtgMwAA&iwloc=10577418088628296705

[Taxi]

You should alert all the people attending services at the little red dots on this map

http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=montreal+churches&fb=1&gl=us&hq=churches&hnear=Montreal,+QC,+Canada&ei=QuiITIm5LYSg8ASNi8jgDg&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CDsQtgMwAA&iwloc=10577418088628296705

Yea well, the catholics used to rule everything here in Quebec for centuries, but all that went out the window during the 60s. So the churches are still there, but theyre empty.

I think its Mark Twain who said while visiting Montreal "The only city where you cant throw a brick and not break a church window". But still, they are empty.

[Toony]

Yea well, the catholics used to rule everything here in Quebec for centuries, but all that went out the window during the 60s. So the churches are still there, but theyre empty.

I think its Mark Twain who said while visiting Montreal "The only city where you cant throw a brick and not break a church window". But still, they are empty.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ImageShrinker?http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100411/600_church.jpg,430,241

[Taxi]

I was a choir boy in the biggest church of Montreal (Oratoire St-joseph) from 84-86 i know what im talking about, just drop it seriously.

[Toony]

I was a choir boy in the biggest church of Montreal (Oratoire St-joseph) from 84-86 i know what im talking about, just drop it seriously.

That picture wasn't from the 80's. Your axe sharp yet?

[Bigcountry23]

I live in Salt Lake City. Like any religion, Mormon's run the gammot from uber religious to those who only go to church on Sunday and give the religion lip service.

My wife it still technically a Mormon (They prefer the term "people of the LDS faith") but she has not been to church in over eight years. She drinks (occasionally) and swears (when it is appropriate).

[Taxi]

That picture wasn't from the 80's. Your axe sharp yet?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000/12/23/church001223.html

"And the report shows that the number of Canadians attending church services has dropped over the past 10 years.

A decade ago it was 41 per cent. In 1998 Statistics Canada says it was 34 per cent.

The biggest drop was in Quebec, down from 48 per cent in 1988 to 29 per cent in 1998."

I dont need no report though, i have a big church right next to my home. On sundays, you see a couple of grey heads come out of there and thats it. You can just see it everywhere you look.

Also, 20 years ago i was in high school here. Nothing even close to what you can see in the US, these christian teens. Its just non-existent here, you dont see christian teens, its like 1%, invisible.

If youre from Montreal, the culture you live in, its just glaringly obvious that the church is dead. Its a non-factor.

Even when i was a choir boy, nobody in the kids in my class actually beleived in god, it was more like a school for gifted children who learned music. We made the principal have nervous breakdowns with playing cards on the bus to Ontario with nude pictures of women on them (9-11 year old kids) and me repeatedly asking him if bees went to heaven, and if not, WHY?!?!

[Bigcountry23]

By the way, the whole "I'm a mormon" campain is an attempt to improve thier image as a result of negative backlash they are still feeling over thier support of Prop 8.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28UwAyzUkE

[Toony]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000/12/23/church001223.html

Of course overall numbers are down but there's a big difference between decline and empty. The church in the image I posted is in the east end and didn't look too empty.

Your own link proves my point ;)

[Taxi]

Of course overall numbers are down but there's a big difference between decline and empty. The church in the image I posted is in the east end and didn't look too empty.

Your own link proves my point ;)

Well i didnt mean literally empty, i mean like... when you see a dying species and the mating population isnt high enough to sustain the species... is more what i was meaning.

You might see this kind of attendance on holidays, say, on christmas but i highly doubt that a church gets this kind of attendance on a regular basis.

Having said that, im sure there are exceptions. For example, haitians are big on churches, so youll see those culture-specific churches still draw some crowds.

But broadly, i think its safe to say that any of the churches pretty much that youve pointed on google maps, pick any one out and ill take my digital camera there on a sunday and take a pic of what it looks when people are coming out and id bet a 50$ that its a small attendance.

[Toony]

Well i didnt mean literally empty.

Ok.

[Dork]

My ass needs to move to Montreal!:p

I used to get high with a Mormon in HS, other than that I haven't known any.

[Hasbinbad]

I live in Salt Lake City.
Dear god man, I'm sorry!
Like any religion, Mormon's run the gammot from uber crazy twatfucks to uber crazy fucktwats.

My wife it still technically a uber crazt twatfuck (They prefer the term "people of the uber crazy twatfuck faith") but she has not been to get brainwashed in over eight years. She drinks (compulsively) and swears (because of PTSD-induced tourettes).
fix'd
By the way, the whole "I'm a mormon" campain is an attempt to improve thier uber crazy twatfuck image as a result of negative backlash they are still feeling over thier support of a couple hundred years of being completely batshit crazy.
fix'd

[danicah]

My family was mormon when I was a kid 7 or so, I was indoctrinated.
At 17 I joined the forces, when I came back from gulf 1 I was a lot more world wise, after about a year and 3 church courts I was excomunicated for "leading the congregation astray" apparently I am a bad influence.
who knew.

They dont want me back on church ground apparently, I can live with that I tell the story sometimes with a sense of pride on what pushed them over the edge :D

[Haynar]

I am a Mormon. Now you know someone online who is one.

With every religion, there are extremists. Funny how the normal ones, never make the news.

Please tone down the bashing, as not all Mormons are representative of the stereotypes. The same with any religion.

Haynar

[Hasbinbad]

No offense Haynar, but you just pulled a Chef..

Never say one word about people bashing Islam for pages and pages of virulent hate, calling them all terrorists, etc., but the second someone says anything remotely negative about YOUR fruity little club, yer all about "please tone down the bashing." ..and we can't even say "piss off" to you for fear of a ban for trash talking devs..

..funny how that works..

[Haynar]

No offense Haynar, but you just pulled a Chef..

Never say one word about people bashing Islam for pages and pages of virulent hate, calling them all terrorists, etc., but the second someone says anything remotely negative about YOUR fruity little club, yer all about "please tone down the bashing." ..and we can't even say "piss off" to you for fear of a ban for trash talking devs..

..funny how that works..
You are assuming I even looked at the threads about Islam? Is it in R&F? Then I probably have not read it.

I don't read all the threads.

I don't ban on the boards, except spammers.

You can say piss off to me, but not without fear of being put on /ignore.

If I don't like what people are saying, I just ignore them. If the thread is not in R&F, then I have every right to come in and say tone it down, if it is turning into a bash fest.

You confuse "Developer" with "GM", "GUIDE", "ADMIN", everything else.

I only dev. I don't set policy. I provide very little input into policy. So go troll someone else.

And if the thread continues the bashing and hate, I will move it to R&F.

Haynar

[Hasbinbad]

You are assuming I even looked at the threads about Islam? Is it in R&F? Then I probably have not read it.

I don't read all the threads.
It's a lil' funny which threads get a blind eye turned to them when. That's all I'm saying..
I don't ban on the boards
I wasn't saying you did.. I said "fear of being banned" not "fear of being banned by you." I'm more worried about Nilborg or Rogean than you by far.. They are very (righteously) defensive about you devs, since all you do is bleed for this project for free..

..just saying man..

..it's not like the threads in question were some low profile RnF threads, or even confined to RnF.. ..there is a huge undertone and even blatant hatred directed towards many religions (especially Islam) on these forums..

..it's interesting how nobody on the staff says shit about it when it's Islam being bashed..

..just saying..

[Harrison]

Don't mind hasbinbad, his vagina hurts after the entire server told him to go fuck himself. So now he feels the need to champion everything, everywhere...even if they contradict each other.

He is as useless on these forums as he is in life.

[Hasbinbad]

My name is Finawin, and I say things!!

[Taxi]

Come here Harrisson... sigh... ill give you a hug.

[zianlo1]

It's a lil' funny which threads get a blind eye turned to them when. That's all I'm saying..

I wasn't saying you did.. I said "fear of being banned" not "fear of being banned by you." I'm more worried about Nilborg or Rogean than you by far.. They are very (righteously) defensive about you devs, since all you do is bleed for this project for free..

..just saying man..

..it's not like the threads in question were some low profile RnF threads, or even confined to RnF.. ..there is a huge undertone and even blatant hatred directed towards many religions (especially Islam) on these forums..

..it's interesting how nobody on the staff says shit about it when it's Islam being bashed..

..just saying..

Only reason for this is cuz we have no muslims on the server or they are just hiding. I guarentee if someone posted a pic of muhammed in a bear suit, someone would threaten to bomb us or fly a plane into us again. For the lulz, Ill do it:

[VictoryARC]

That was actually Santa Claus in the bear suit. Iirc the gingers had hidden The Honorable Prophet Mohommad (tm)

[purist]

Don't mind hasbinbad, his vagina hurts after the entire server told him to go fuck himself. So now he feels the need to champion everything, everywhere...even if they contradict each other.

He is as useless on these forums as he is in life.

Aren't you the tool that lied about being a "combat vet" in Afghanistan?

Then got called out on it by a real combat medic, raged and called him a "military hating pussy?"

Yep, you sure are. But hey, keep talking as if your opinion carries a modicum of credibility.

[Harrison]

Purist, you can try to play that lie all you want. It isn't working.

There's a total of like 3 of you anonymous pussies using it obsessively. One being the "other combat medic" who posted like 2 times, and conveniently never did again anywhere else. He's an alt troll account used by one of you military hating faggots and it's very obvious. His "credibility" is FAR less than mine.

No one even knows who he is, if he's actually even enlisted at all, or anything. But, you use his word over mine? Lawl, convenient much?

It's cute how you keep going back to that, and that lie alone, because you have nothing else to stand on.

[purist]

I'm just reminding people what kind of tool you are.

It's cute that you think you have some kind of moral standing to lecture others about respecting servicemen.

Cute because you're the kind of tool that recently lied about his non-existent "combat" experience.

You got called out on it, and then reacted by call the actual combat medic a "military-hating pussy."

That's the caliber of respect you have for veterans. So if you want to go and get on your high horse, I'm going to continue to expose you for the piece of shit that you are.

Have a nice day.

[Harrison]

You, and others, said you want all of them to die. Then, you turn around and try to act as if you have a level of respect for them trying to paint me as disrespecting them with your fancifully fabricated fallacy (lol alliterations are awesome) about me attempting to say I am a combat veteran. It never happened, and how you twisted it to be that way is purely comical. The thread is still there for the public, too lol

You can't have it both ways, vagina crew. (Bodeanicus, Hasbinbad, and Purist) You are scum of which isn't fit to float in my septic tank. I'm still convinced at least two of you shitbags are the same person on multiple accounts. It would be fitting of your kind to hide behind anonymity.

Some_random_dude001 comes into a thread and says "I'm a vet, blah blah blah" and that is it. Then, you cling to it like some random internet troll is your saving grace against the fact you are scum.

[fastboy21]

mormons believe that when they die they and their spouse will become the "gods"/adam&eve of a planet somewhere in the universe...and then get to populate it, etc...

they are really not christian, but something all their own.

at least they have strong and good communities for the most part...so as humans they are pretty nice folks. as for their beliefs, I think they are wayyyyy out there.

[purist]

You, and others, said you want all of them to die.

lol, please quote, and link to the post where I said any such thing.

Thanks. :p

[purist]

You, and others, said you want all of them to die.

lol, red herrings to deflect the fact that you lied about your "combat" experience.

Please quote, and link to the post where I said any such thing.

What's the matter? Having trouble?

[purist]

You, and others, said you want all of them to die.

lol, red herrings won't save you this time. Please quote, and link to the post where I, Purist, said any such thing.

What's the matter? Having trouble?

[Harrison]

Forget to log out into your multiple accounts before you posted? Retard.

[purist]

Forget to log out into your multiple accounts before you posted? Retard.

http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/why-cats-hate-their-owners.jpg?w=400&h=300

[purist]

It's a conspiracy!!

Now go ahead and quote and link to the post where you claim I said such a thing.

I'd love to see you try.

[Taxi]

Harrisson is such a fail troll lol its like watching a schoolyard dispute and i know, i worked in a school for 2 years.

[Heavydrop]

I'm an EverQuest player and an active Mormon. Perhaps the only one in existence.
I don't care if people swear, that is what filter is for and whatever makes it
through that I choose to ignore. It's on them if they choose to converse that way.
People can criticize us all they want and say we're brainwashed or whatever but
for me it changes nothing. My faith is secure and I try my best to follow its principles
and doctrines.
Instead of fixating on what people think of me or of LDS (Mormons) in general I
focus on the good things we do and the good values and truths we try to live
and live by and pass on to our posterity.
I will and have discussed the finer points of my religion but I don't think it is
something that can be truly conveyed on an anonymous, faceless forum but rather
instead it is something to be done in person face to face.
I try to treat everyone with respect and hope to in turn be treated with respect as well.
With that said I wish us all Happy Hunting.

[Heavydrop]

the South Park episode about Joseph Smith and the Mormons is horrifyingly accurate.

including the ending where the mormon kid lets everyone know how crazy it is for them to look down on his religion, because to him it's just a family bond and it keeps him out of trouble.

for real though, how can you buy into the Joe Smith story?

I have actually seen the episode. It is accurate to a point, but it
is told from a view point in opposition of the faith it mocks. Painted
in the light they wish to cast it in it does not appear favorable.
But I beg to differ with the spirit and tone of their presentation.
From your avatar picture you seem to be an adult.
Do you really base your opinion and knowledge about events and someone's faith from what you saw in animated show?
I will be honest.
I actually enjoy some South Park episodes but they the writers don't
seem to hold much if anything to be sacred or true.
They instead seem to wish to mock and make fun of everyone and
perhaps undermine what other people think or cherish.
I am violating some of my own personal code of conduct and posting
about my own beliefs and faith on a forum full of people I have never
and most likely never will meet, but sometimes I feel I must speak up.

The story of Joseph Smith goes far beyond the meger confines of
South Park and/or any other anti-Mormon creation (not really saying
South Park is anti)
I believe his story is misrepresented and I believe that Joseph Smith
was and is a prophet of God.
Call me what you wish and denounce anything you wish.
My faith remains the same and as strong as ever.

[Hasbinbad]

http://www.kimberlybollmann.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/brainwash2.jpg

[Fawqueue]

My only problem with Mormon's is that they are so damn pushy. If they'd just take a hike after you tell them "No thanks, not interested" it'd be fine. But instead they insist on arguing faith with you or trying to disprove whatever it is that you believe (or don't). All of this on my doorstep while I stand their in my underwear, eyes all glazed over from too much EQ, just trying to hold myself back from saying something purposefully perverse to get them the fuck away. I used to say "I don't participate in organized religion" but that only seems to paint a giant prime-to-convert-to-mormon bullseye on my back. Now I try saying I'm a Catholic (since it's the longest, most well established denomonation of the Christian faith you'd figure they'd think it too much a challenge) but nope, just more questions and arguing.

Other than that annoyance, I know plenty and they're good people. But god damnit, stop harassing me when I'm leaving Safeway with your brochures and fake smiles.

[ryuut1]

My only problem with Mormon's is that they are so damn pushy. If they'd just take a hike after you tell them "No thanks, not interested" it'd be fine. But instead they insist on arguing faith with you or trying to disprove whatever it is that you believe (or don't). All of this on my doorstep while I stand their in my underwear, eyes all glazed over from too much EQ, just trying to hold myself back from saying something purposefully perverse to get them the fuck away. I used to say "I don't participate in organized religion" but that only seems to paint a giant prime-to-convert-to-mormon bullseye on my back. Now I try saying I'm a Catholic (since it's the longest, most well established denomonation of the Christian faith you'd figure they'd think it too much a challenge) but nope, just more questions and arguing.

Other than that annoyance, I know plenty and they're good people. But god damnit, stop harassing me when I'm leaving Safeway with your brochures and fake smiles.

super-lawl

my name is ryan, and i'm a combat vet. when the mormoms(i moved 2 houses down from a Kingdom Hall, didn't know that meant a mormom church) came over and I told them i didn't practice religion, they found a combat veteran mormom named ryan to come to my door and try to talk to me. out of respect, i give him 30 minutes of my time about once a week now, and he hands me the same stupid reading material that i promptly throw into my trashcan.

[Heavydrop]

super-lawl

my name is ryan, and i'm a combat vet. when the mormoms(i moved 2 houses down from a Kingdom Hall, didn't know that meant a mormom church) came over and I told them i didn't practice religion, they found a combat veteran mormom named ryan to come to my door and try to talk to me. out of respect, i give him 30 minutes of my time about once a week now, and he hands me the same stupid reading material that i promptly throw into my trashcan.

It may not mean much to you but, Mormons are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Kingdom Halls are where Jehovah's Witnesses meet. Not Mormons.

[Slade_the_Slide]

Here's my take: Believe in whatever you want, just don't try to "convert" me or "make me see the light" of your beliefs in any way. I'm a grown, thinking adult. I don't need Marvin and Chuck knocking on my door trying to tell me what the "truth" is. It's all superstition to me. I don't discriminate against Mormon, Muslim, or Moonies...it's all the same junk wrapped in a different package.

I understand your mission (religious people in general) is to "save" me...but guess what? I don't think I need saving. If you honestly believe I am going to burn for eternity for not proscribing to your strict set of beliefs, than your deity is not one to be worshiped. It is to be reviled.

My take on it all.

[Seaweedpimp]

I have actually seen the episode. It is accurate to a point, but it
is told from a view point in opposition of the faith it mocks. Painted
in the light they wish to cast it in it does not appear favorable.
But I beg to differ with the spirit and tone of their presentation.
From your avatar picture you seem to be an adult.
Do you really base your opinion and knowledge about events and someone's faith from what you saw in animated show?
I will be honest.
I actually enjoy some South Park episodes but they the writers don't
seem to hold much if anything to be sacred or true.
They instead seem to wish to mock and make fun of everyone and
perhaps undermine what other people think or cherish.
I am violating some of my own personal code of conduct and posting
about my own beliefs and faith on a forum full of people I have never
and most likely never will meet, but sometimes I feel I must speak up.

The story of Joseph Smith goes far beyond the meger confines of
South Park and/or any other anti-Mormon creation (not really saying
South Park is anti)
I believe his story is misrepresented and I believe that Joseph Smith
was and is a prophet of God.
Call me what you wish and denounce anything you wish.
My faith remains the same and as strong as ever.

Are you scared to go to hell? I bet you are.

I glad i can relax and say fuck and smack women because in the end i know that im just gonna rot when im dead.

Get the point?

Actually i consider myself a better person than most "christians" that ive met.

The kind of kids that seek out the skinny homebum kid dressed in dirt and shaggy black tattered clothes, drinking beer (or drunk) and beat his ass to a pulp just for not being a SRAITEGDE YAHHH BRAH guy.

PS i dont beat women.

[Taxi]

I dislike religions in general because i think its a bunch of hypocrites manipulating fear of death in humans (the top religious positions, like the popes and cardinals etc during the last 2000 years) but i understand some people are honest in their faith and im ok with that.

[ShadowWulf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

There you go, the mormon story right from the Mormons. Its even weirder than they want to admit.

This is a fantastic and great read, but I dont really expect anybodt to read OMGWALLOFTEXT! with current attention spans being what they are.

In March 1826 a court in Bainbridge, New York, convicted a twenty-one-year-old man of being "a disorderly person and an impostor." That ought to have been all we ever heard of Joseph Smith, who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad gold-digging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers. However, within four years he was back in the local newspapers (all of which one may still read) as the discoverer of the "Book of Mormon." He had two huge local advantages which most mountebanks and charlatans do not possess. First, he was operating in the same hectically pious district that gave us the Shakers and several other self-proclaimed American prophets. So notorious did this local tendency become that the region became known as the "Burned-Over District," in honor of the way in which it had surrendered to one religious craze after another. Second, he was operating in an area which, unlike large tracts of the newly opening North America, did possess the signs of an ancient history.

A vanished and vanquished Indian civilization had bequeathed a considerable number of burial mounds, which when randomly and amateurishly desecrated were found to contain not merely bones but also quite advanced artifacts of stone, copper, and beaten silver. There were eight of these sites within twelve miles of the underperforming farm which the Smith family called home. There were two equally stupid schools or factions who took a fascinated interest in such matters: the first were the gold-diggers and treasure-diviners who brought their magic sticks and crystals and stuffed toads to bear in the search for lucre, and the second those who hoped to find the resting place of a lost tribe of Israel. Smith's cleverness was to be a member of both groups, and to unite cupidity with half-baked anthropology.
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The actual story of the imposture is almost embarrassing to read, and almost embarrassingly easy to uncover. (It has been best told by Dr. Fawn Brodie, whose 1945 book No Man Knows My History was a good-faith attempt by a professional historian to put the kindest possible interpretation on the relevant "events.") In brief, Joseph Smith announced that he had been visited (three times, as is customary) by an angel named Moroni. The said angel informed him of a book, "written upon gold plates," which explained the origins of those living on the North American continent as well as the truths of the gospel. There were, further, two magic stones, set in the twin breastplates Urim and Thummim of the Old Testament, that would enable Smith himself to translate the aforesaid book. After many wrestlings, he brought this buried apparatus home with him on September 21, 1827, about eighteen months after his conviction for fraud. He then set about producing a translation.

The resulting "books" turned out to be a record set down by ancient prophets, beginning with Nephi, son of Lephi, who had fled Jerusalem in approximately 600 BC and come to America. Many battles, curses, and afflictions accompanied their subsequent wanderings and those of their numerous progeny. How did the books turn out to be this way? Smith refused to show the golden plates to anybody, claiming that for other eyes to view them would mean death. But he encountered a problem that will be familiar to students of Islam. He was extremely glib and fluent as a debater and story-weaver, as many accounts attest. But he was illiterate, at least in the sense that while he could read a little, he could not write. A scribe was therefore necessary to take his inspired dictation. This scribe was at first his wife Emma and then, when more hands were necessary, a luckless neighbor named Martin Harris. Hearing Smith cite the words of Isaiah 29, verses 11–12, concerning the repeated injunction to "Read," Harris mortgaged his farm to help in the task and moved in with the Smiths. He sat on one side of a blanket hung across the kitchen, and Smith sat on the other with his translation stones, intoning through the blanket. As if to make this an even happier scene, Harris was warned that if he tried to glimpse the plates, or look at the prophet, he would be struck dead.

Mrs. Harris was having none of this, and was already furious with the fecklessness of her husband. She stole the first hundred and sixteen pages and challenged Smith to reproduce them, as presumably—given his power of revelation—he could. (Determined women like this appear far too seldom in the history of religion.) After a very bad few weeks, the ingenious Smith countered with another revelation. He could not replicate the original, which might be in the devil's hands by now and open to a "satanic verses" interpretation. But the all-foreseeing Lord had meanwhile furnished some smaller plates, indeed the very plates of Nephi, which told a fairly similar tale. With infinite labor, the translation was resumed, with new scriveners behind the blanket as occasion demanded, and when it was completed all the original golden plates were transported to heaven, where apparently they remain to this day.

Mormon partisans sometimes say, as do Muslims, that this cannot have been fraudulent because the work of deception would have been too much for one poor and illiterate man. They have on their side two useful points: if Muhammad was ever convicted in public of fraud and attempted necromancy we have no record of the fact, and Arabic is a language that is somewhat opaque even to the fairly fluent outsider. However, we know the Koran to be made up in part of earlier books and stories, and in the case of Smith it is likewise a simple if tedious task to discover that twenty-five thousand words of the Book of Mormon are taken directly from the Old Testament. These words can mainly be found in the chapters of Isaiah available in Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews: The Ten Tribes of Israel in America. This then popular work by a pious loony, claiming that the American Indians originated in the Middle East, seems to have started the other Smith on his gold-digging in the first place. A further two thousand words of the Book of Mormon are taken from the New Testament. Of the three hundred and fifty "names" in the book, more than one hundred come straight from the Bible and a hundred more are as near stolen as makes no difference. (The great Mark Twain famously referred to it as "chloroform in print," but I accuse him of hitting too soft a target, since the book does actually contain "The Book of Ether.") The words "and it came to pass" can be found at least two thousand times, which does admittedly have a soporific effect. Quite recent scholarship has exposed every single other Mormon "document" as at best a scrawny compromise and at worst a pitiful fake, as Dr. Brodie was obliged to notice when she reissued and updated her remarkable book in 1973.

Like Muhammad, Smith could produce divine revelations at short notice and often simply to suit himself (especially, and like Muhammad, when he wanted a new girl and wished to take her as another wife). As a result, he overreached himself and came to a violent end, having meanwhile excommunicated almost all the poor men who had been his first disciples and who had been browbeaten into taking his dictation. Still, this story raises some very absorbing questions, concerning what happens when a plain racket turns into a serious religion before our eyes.

It must be said for the "Latter-day Saints" (these conceited words were added to Smith's original "Church of Jesus Christ" in 1833) that they have squarely faced one of the great difficulties of revealed religion. This is the problem of what to do about those who were born before the exclusive "revelation," or who died without ever having the opportunity to share in its wonders. Christians used to resolve this problem by saying that Jesus descended into hell after his crucifixion, where it is thought that he saved or converted the dead. There is indeed a fine passage in Dante's Inferno where he comes to rescue the spirits of great men like Aristotle, who had presumably been boiling away for centuries until he got around to them. (In another less ecumenical scene from the same book, the Prophet Muhammad is found being disemboweled in revolting detail.) The Mormons have improved on this rather backdated solution with something very literal-minded. They have assembled a gigantic genealogical database at a huge repository in Utah, and are busy filling it with the names of all people whose births, marriages, and deaths have been tabulated since records began. This is very useful if you want to look up your own family tree, and as long as you do not object to having your ancestors becoming Mormons. Every week, at special ceremonies in Mormon temples, the congregations meet and are given a certain quota of names of the departed to "pray in" to their church. This retrospective baptism of the dead seems harmless enough to me, but the American Jewish Committee became incensed when it was discovered that the Mormons had acquired the records of the Nazi "final solution," and were industriously baptizing what for once could truly be called a "lost tribe": the murdered Jews of Europe. For all its touching inefficacy, this exercise seemed in poor taste. I sympathize with the American Jewish Committee, but I nonetheless think that the followers of Mr. Smith should be congratulated for hitting upon even the most simpleminded technological solution to a problem that has defied solution ever since man first invented religion.

[Ralph]

can't spell mormon without moron!

[Slade_the_Slide]

can't spell mormon without moron!

M.O.O.N, that spells "Mormon"

[Heavydrop]

Are you scared to go to hell? I bet you are.

I glad i can relax and say fuck and smack women because in the end i know that im just gonna rot when im dead.

Get the point?

Actually i consider myself a better person than most "christians" that ive met.

The kind of kids that seek out the skinny homebum kid dressed in dirt and shaggy black tattered clothes, drinking beer (or drunk) and beat his ass to a pulp just for not being a SRAITEGDE YAHHH BRAH guy.

PS i dont beat women.


I wouldn't bother to answer you but since you quoted me and asked me
a question, retorical as it may be, I will reply.

"Are you scared to go to hell? I bet you are."

I accept that there is a possibility that I could go to hell, so in a sense
you could say I have a fear of it. It isn't a place I'd like to reside.
But by the same token I also believe in Heaven and that if I am faithful
and diligent I and my family, and anyone else, can also earn to reside there.
Even though you profess
"because in the end i know that im just gonna rot when im dead"
you must have some fear of reprisal for actions or you wouldn’t have said
“PS I don’t beat women”
Perhaps your fear only stems from the judgment of man here on this earth but I take it to mean that you have at least some inkling of a conscience, and that means there is hope for you yet.
While you profess not to beat women you do admit to abusing those less fortunate and possibly inebriated
“The kind of kids that seek out the skinny homebum kid dressed in dirt and shaggy black tattered clothes, drinking beer (or drunk) and beat his ass to a pulp just for not being a SRAITEGDE YAHHH BRAH guy.”
Now did you mean that you were the one beating up the “homeubm kid” or that you were/are the “homebum kid”?
If so and if those who did the beating in either case are not being good and true Christians.
You don’t come across as someone either brave or intelligent but as I’ve said before, there is still hope.

added later when I remembered I wanted to put it in here

"I'd rather be a Mormon and know I was going to hell than to not know where the hell I was going"
--J. Golden Kimball, deceased LDS (Mormon) General Authority

[Harrison]

Are you scared to go to hell? I bet you are.

I glad i can relax and say fuck and smack women because in the end i know that im just gonna rot when im dead.

Get the point?

Actually i consider myself a better person than most "christians" that ive met.

The kind of kids that seek out the skinny homebum kid dressed in dirt and shaggy black tattered clothes, drinking beer (or drunk) and beat his ass to a pulp just for not being a SRAITEGDE YAHHH BRAH guy.

PS i dont beat women.

How do you know?

I'll wait patiently for you to answer the one question no one has been able to answer, ever.

I'm sure this will be some stroke of genius.

[Taxi]

I stopped beleiving in god at around 10, when i kept pestering my school principal (who was a priest) about bees going to heaven. Do bees go to heaven? If not, why not? At some point he snapped and told me "THEY JUST DONT!"

[Heavydrop]

I stopped beleiving in god at around 10, when i kept pestering my school principal (who was a priest) about bees going to heaven. Do bees go to heaven? If not, why not? At some point he snapped and told me "THEY JUST DONT!"

This sounds like a Simpsons quote. When Bart is in Sunday school and keeps
asking about his dog.

[Heavydrop]

I glad i can relax and say fuck and smack women because in the end i know that im just gonna rot when im dead.



How do you know?

I'll wait patiently for you to answer the one question no one has been able to answer, ever.

I'm sure this will be some stroke of genius.

I was going to comment on that part as well but I let it slip by

[Harrison]

The arrogance of atheists never ceases to amaze me. (The same would go for believers of various faiths as well, but their line is drawn at belief, and not claiming to know. A very, very important line.)

[Heavydrop]

can't spell mormon without moron!

Before you go and tar Mormons with a label like that maybe you
should consider who you are applying it to.

http://www.ldsfilm.com/100/lds100.html

Some on the list have become inactive members but they at least
grew up in member homes so who they are and how they did things
can be attributed to their backgrounds.

This isn't meant to be "holier than thou" or to make all of us Mormons
out to look super smart but instead to inform people of who they really
are calling "morons"

not included on this list:
Steve Young (49ers) NFL championship and Hall of Fame quarterback. And he holds a degree in law.
Merlin Olsen (Rams) NFL Hall of Fame defensive lineman. Considered one of the best ever (he is now dead)
he graduated summa cum laude with a degree in finance.
Jon Heder - yes, Napolean Dynamite
and more besides

[Harrison]

I can't take Mormons seriously in much the same way I can't take Scientologists seriously.

[Crover_CT99]

Something I never understood about deity worship is this: if there is an all-powerful creator who brought us into existence, a transcendent being who discards petty human traits, is it likely he would ask us to worship his ego or suffer eternal pain and suffering?

I'm interested in your thoughts, respectfully, Heavy.

[Harrison]

Something I never understood about deity worship is this: if there is an all-powerful creator who brought us into existence, a transcendent being who discards petty human traits, is it likely he would ask us to worship his ego or suffer eternal pain and suffering?

I'm interested in your thoughts, respectfully, Heavy.

That is a question answered VERY easily. Man created that image you just portrayed of a God that requires worship.

I trust the major religions' views on creation, deities, etc. about as much as I trust major media to tell me what I should be doing with my life.

If there is, or was, a creator I am fairly sure without a doubt he doesn't give a flying fuck about one single planet in all of existence over the millenia or what we think of it/him/her. (assuming it has a gender)

[Kender]

If god created man in his own image, how does he explain George W Bush?


one think that I always find amusing is that most religions have God as a male figure. But think out it. Men in general are the destroyers of life. Women are the creators of life. If any superior being was to have created life, it's more likely to have been a woman.

fact is, religion was developed by men to control others beliefs so they could exert soem control over others lives. Look how many wars have been started because of religion

[Harrison]

There's too much wrong with that last post for me to address it all at once.

Answer: People are flawed. You can't blame what people say about a deity, on the deity, if they exist.

[Qaedain]

If god created man in his own image, how does he explain George W Bush?


one think that I always find amusing is that most religions have God as a male figure. But think out it. Men in general are the destroyers of life. Women are the creators of life. If any superior being was to have created life, it's more likely to have been a woman.

fact is, religion was developed by men to control others beliefs so they could exert soem control over others lives. Look how many wars have been started because of religion

Misandry much?

[Kender]

hah



my comments were nothing more than to demonstrate how pathetic ranting over religion is

[Heavydrop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

There you go, the mormon story right from the Mormons. Its even weirder than they want to admit.

This is a fantastic and great read, but I dont really expect anybodt to read OMGWALLOFTEXT! with current attention spans being what they are.


For every bit of anti-mormon comment I've ever read I've read even more
compelling evidence supporting what I already know to be true.
The video is amusing.
It is not right from the Mormons but from what I gather it was instead made by some anti-Mormon entity.
It blends actual Mormon doctrine with some things that are not doctrine, and like the South Park episode quoted earlier is meant to cast us in an unfavorable light and not to be objectionable or considerate at all.
One critical indication of this to me is when they refer to Jesus as "The Mormon Jesus"
There is only one Jesus.
Again I say, as an adult are you going to formulate your opinion about
someone's faith and beliefs from watching a cartoon or animated show?
Aren't you in turn being manipulated by someone else into thinking or
believing a certain way about something?
The video is childish and again I say it is intended to harm, and not to
instruct or enlighten.

As for your comments against Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon I have
read far more compelling acheological evidence of it than I ever have that
speaks against it.
http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/50535
What you have presented is one side of the story, and you do not even
provide a reference.
Ultimately nothing dealing with the Spirit of God can be definatively proven by science. It is not meant to be that way. It must remain a matter of faith thereby providing and protecting something very precious to us all.
Free agency.
With that in mind I have prayed and consulted with the highest, more reputable source possible, that of God Himself. I have recieved confirmation
of the truth through His spirit, there is no greater witness, and I will not turn aside from it or deny it.
Nor will I seek to impose it on any of you. You've made statements about
my faith, and I am defending it.
Mock me and all of religion if you wish, but for me it changes nothing.
My faith is secure.

[Harrison]

Lol that's awesome, Gods speak to you...

I wish I had life that easy.

[Hasbinbad]

I have.. ..consulted with.. ..God.
Edit's just took out unnecessary rhetoric. This sentence is well intact within his speech.

This is all I need to know.

Thank you, drive through.

[Harrison]

Lol it's funny you went back to your bread and butter

It's a poor attempt at humor by intentionally misquoting someone to make a joke at the posters expense.

Example:

Harrison posts "My dick is huge!"

someone quotes it and replaces "huge" with "small"

they then type "fixed" "fixt" or "Fix'd" in an attempt to tell everyone else that what Harrison meant to say is he has a small dick, thus there is the joke at Harrison's expense.

[Heavydrop]

Edit's just took out unnecessary rhetoric. This sentence is well intact within his speech.

This is all I need to know.

Thank you, drive through.

It is easy to mock what you do not or refuse to understand.
Much more difficult to act on faith and humble yourself and reach out
to a higher power that is real and is there for you. Always.
It is your choice to disregard anything anyone says but the only one you
are selling short is yourself.
You may choose to deny yourself something greater, but if you're so smart
and secure with yourself why seek to undermine others?
I've gone against my own personal dictates and posted what I really feel
on this forum in general but I will not recount anything I have said.
I know it is true and your insecurities will not alter that.
I wish you well.

[Noleafclover]

For every bit of anti-mormon comment I've ever read I've read even more
compelling evidence supporting what I already know to be true.
The video is amusing.
It is not right from the Mormons but from what I gather it was instead made by some anti-Mormon entity.
It blends actual Mormon doctrine with some things that are not doctrine, and like the South Park episode quoted earlier is meant to cast us in an unfavorable light and not to be objectionable or considerate at all.
One critical indication of this to me is when they refer to Jesus as "The Mormon Jesus"
There is only one Jesus.
Again I say, as an adult are you going to formulate your opinion about
someone's faith and beliefs from watching a cartoon or animated show?
Aren't you in turn being manipulated by someone else into thinking or
believing a certain way about something?
The video is childish and again I say it is intended to harm, and not to
instruct or enlighten.

As for your comments against Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon I have
read far more compelling acheological evidence of it than I ever have that
speaks against it.
http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/50535
What you have presented is one side of the story, and you do not even
provide a reference.
Ultimately nothing dealing with the Spirit of God can be definatively proven by science. It is not meant to be that way. It must remain a matter of faith thereby providing and protecting something very precious to us all.
Free agency.
With that in mind I have prayed and consulted with the highest, more reputable source possible, that of God Himself. I have recieved confirmation
of the truth through His spirit, there is no greater witness, and I will not turn aside from it or deny it.
Nor will I seek to impose it on any of you. You've made statements about
my faith, and I am defending it.
Mock me and all of religion if you wish, but for me it changes nothing.
My faith is secure.

First I want to say that I applaud your conclusion about free agency and faith. If there were a God who placed a value in free will, I could see this being sufficient reason for him to make the answer to the ultimate origin question unknowable. If it's black and white true for one religion, there's really little free will about it.

Myself, I'm not religious, but I was raised Christian, and that reasoning makes huge sense to me.

But mormonism doesn't. Lets put aside the implausible origin story.

What I'm confused about is why god needed an addendum to the Bible 1900 years later. Did he get it wrong?

And if it really coincides with the Bible, which just from the little bit of doctrine I vaguely remember, I believe there were some contradictions, then why is god being redundant? So wrong or redundant, and why?

Really curious about the mormon answer to the question.

[AexDestroy]

http://img.youtube.com/vi/6lHHQu4CIos/0.jpg

[Hasbinbad]

It is easy to mock what you do not or refuse to understand.
It's easy to mistake apathy for ignorance.
Much more difficult to act on faith and humble yourself and reach out to a higher power that is real and is there for you.
I do act on faith. Every day. ..the only difference is that I place my faith in evidence, whereas you and every religious person in the world (yes, I just lump you all together, since you're all equally crazy, mormons aren't special) place your faith in "something someone told you."
It is your choice to disregard anything anyone says but the only one you are selling short is yourself.
Back atchya Thumper.
You may choose to deny yourself something greater, but if you're so smart and secure with yourself why seek to undermine others?
For sport.
I've gone against my own personal dictates and posted what I really feel on this forum in general but I will not recount anything I have said.
Nobody cares that you got down on your knees and blew your god while promising to never kiss and tell dude. Nobody is impressed by your missionary position.
I know it is true and your insecurities will not alter that.
I'm rather concerned that your faith is apparently so shaky that you need to keep repeating that some insecurities within ME which you imagine won't affect you. Real convincing.
I wish you well.
DIAF

[ShadowWulf]

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/1826Trial/ldsjsjai.gif
http://www.truthandgrace.com/Images/mormonjoearrest.jpg

"Warrant issued upon written complaint upon oath of Peter G. Bridgeman, who informed that one Joseph Smith of Bainbridge was a disorderly person and an impostor. Prisoner brought before the Court March 20, 1826. Prisoner examined: says that he came from the town of Palmyra ... that he had a certain stone which he occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he professed to tell in this manner where gold mines were a distance under ground ... he pretended to tell by looking at this stone where coined money was buried in Pennsylvania, and while at Palmyra he frequently ascertained in that way where lost property was of various kinds..." - NY Court




I have evidence also. Except mine is proven, verified, independent and not faith based.

Joseph Smith was a fraud, and so was Mormonism. He also plead guilty.

[yt2005]

Heavydrop, the thing that bothers me the most is that you keep pressing 'Enter' when you type your posts. STOP DOING THAT! Just type everything out, your browser will automatically wrap the lines around when they get too long.

Use the Enter key only when you're starting a new paragraph.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I'm going attempt to explain something that probably goes without saying.

Religions are not like laboratory science. The rituals and traditions are often kind of silly when stuck under a microscope. The icky bread and cheap wine don't really turn into flesh and blood. Many of the scriptures don't make sense when taken literally.

Most people, including very religious people, have never read the Bible, or the Koran, or the Torah, or the Tripitaka, or the Vedas, or the Tao te Ching, or any other sacred texts. They have many reasons. Maybe they're just not readers. Maybe they aren't after a literary understanding. Most likely, it's just not what they're after from religion.

Religion is about community. It's about belonging to something bigger than one's self and behaving for the good of that community, not just for selfish motives. The sacred texts and rituals and traditions are all ways to create communal experience, to put our minds in a state away from the concerns of every day life so that the community is receptive to thinking and feeling as part of a larger whole.

Yes, sometimes all of those things are abused for selfish gains. It is important to follow a religious leader with true goodness in his or her heart. But that risk does not negate the very fundamental need that most humans seem to have for spiritual bonding.

There are things about Mormons and most religions that I do not care for, not the least of which is the intolerance they demonstrate for homosexuals. But this is America. Religious freedom is one of the fundamental values that this land is based on and which we all still share.

Before you go off on an ad hominem attack, it is probably appropriate for me to state that I am an atheist.

[Hasbinbad]

we all still share
Speak for yourself.

[ryuut1]

It may not mean much to you but, Mormons are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Kingdom Halls are where Jehovah's Witnesses meet. Not Mormons.

shit, my bad. for real.

all the same to me, i'm just not religious. but i do applaud them for their dedication to their beliefs =)

[Keebz]

wait... mormons are real???

[Slade_the_Slide]

shit, my bad. for real.

all the same to me, i'm just not religious. but i do applaud them for their dedication to their beliefs =)

I don't. Get enough "faith" and fantacism and you end up with shit like 9/11 or worse. That's the only thing real dedicated belief leads to. Sadly, the US is headed to a theocratic dominionist direction the more of these types are elected into office.

[Harrison]

Lol you're so dumb it hurts...don't reproduce.

[ryuut1]

I don't. Get enough "faith" and fantacism and you end up with shit like 9/11 or worse. That's the only thing real dedicated belief leads to. Sadly, the US is headed to a theocratic dominionist direction the more of these types are elected into office.


shit, if only half of the people you'd like to see in office had that kind of fervor for their own country.

[ShadowWulf]

shit, if only half of the people you'd like to see in office had that kind of fervor for their own country.

http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/05/trcourage.jpg

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0903/teddy-fucking-roosevelt-theodore-roosevelt-teddy-demotivational-poster-1238018919.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs250.snc4/39858_413050506679_585611679_5077815_6821474_n.jpg
You called?

[Slade_the_Slide]

Why can't we have more presidents like Teddy nowdays? :(

[ryuut1]

Rofl

he's fuckin dead. can't help you now.

but i dig the Ted.

[Hasbinbad]

http://i52.tinypic.com/2uogy0y.gif

[Slade_the_Slide]

No one is perfect ;)

But, regardless of belief, having good knowledge of the Bible is a good thing to have. It helps knowing all the evils that it truly holds and is a good tool to argue with "believers" who know little to nothing about their own holy book.

[ShadowWulf]

No one is perfect ;)

But, regardless of belief, having good knowledge of the Bible is a good thing to have. It helps knowing all the evils that it truly holds and is a good tool to argue with "believers" who know little to nothing about their own holy book.

"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"
Psalm 137, Verse 9

[Toony]

"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"
Psalm 137, Verse 9

Flash forward to the new testament (the part where that guy Jesus came into the picture) and you'll see things like:

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

[ShadowWulf]

Flash forward to the new testament (the part where that guy Jesus came into the picture) and you'll see things like:

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. — Luke 19:27

Mark 11:12-14 and 20-22 "The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig-tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, 'May no-one ever eat fruit from you again.' And his disciples heard him say it. . . . In the morning as they went along, they saw the fig-tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus. 'Rabbi, look! The fig-tree you cursed has withered!' Have faith in God,' Jesus answered."

Nice guy that Jesus. That taught the fig tree not to mess with JESUS!

[quido]

I knew this Mormon who would ride around on a bike collecting cans for the lavish ten-cent deposit here in Michigan. He didn't give the church its standard 10% cut on his can revenue and is probably going to hell for that reason.

[Harrison]

Lol your religion of choice wouldn't decide for you who goes to hell and who doesn't, were it to exist...

You think the universe is bound to Man's wishes? lawl