I thought players were supposed to play what they wanted to play...

[Loadsamoney]

...not what is statistically the best.

I have a Level 15 Ranger right now. It's a class I enjoy, I like having access to Dual Wield, Double Attack and Kick all in one without the weight or armor limitations of being a Monk. I like having Archery as an option. And I like having the utility of a few small spells without them being my staple.

But I see Rangers (and Paladins) get so much disdain in EC OOC and in popular leveling areas. 80% of the time when I see one asking for a group, myself included, I see some wiseass saying something along the lines of "lol ranger sucks" or "you'll never get a group with that trash class."

What the hell? Why all the hate for hybrids? I thought MMOs were about having fun. Yeah some classes might be a bit better than others, but so what. Having fun means playing what you want to play, not being forced to settle for a class you DON'T want to play because it's statistically better than one you do want...

...I just don't get it.

[chuck norris]

Play on RED where if they say that you can go kill them and you don't have to worry about it XD

[Bboboo]

Whenever faced with a situation like this you can either

A) Bitch about it on the forums
B) Man up and do something about it.

[myriverse]

Haters gonna hate.

Eff them.

Play what you like.

[loramin]

Haters gonna hate.

Eff them.

Play what you like.

Exactly.

Project 1999 does the whole groupthink thing way too much. A basic fact like "Ranger is not one of the most optimal classes in this era of a 15 year old elf simulator" gets repeated over and over in the echo chamber of the forums and in-game, and becomes "Rangers will take all your XP, contribute nothing to the group, kick your dog and eat any nearby babies." Also, player knowledge about how to level most efficiently becomes "if you don't level as efficiently as possible you're doing something wrong".

You can't fight it, but you can keep it from ruining your fun on the server. Just get a thicker skin and don't let them bug you, and if you can't find a group start your own. Or maybe even reject the whole group system: find a Shaman to duo with and go nuts.

[Aviann]

...not what is statistically the best.

I have a Level 15 Ranger right now. It's a class I enjoy, I like having access to Dual Wield, Double Attack and Kick all in one without the weight or armor limitations of being a Monk. I like having Archery as an option. And I like having the utility of a few small spells without them being my staple.

But I see Rangers (and Paladins) get so much disdain in EC OOC and in popular leveling areas. 80% of the time when I see one asking for a group, myself included, I see some wiseass saying something along the lines of "lol ranger sucks" or "you'll never get a group with that trash class."

What the hell? Why all the hate for hybrids? I thought MMOs were about having fun. Yeah some classes might be a bit better than others, but so what. Having fun means playing what you want to play, not being forced to settle for a class you DON'T want to play because it's statistically better than one you do want...

...I just don't get it.

I just make a list of the idiots, and don't group with them in Velious. Tis is the best way to solve it.

[captnamazing]

i've been levelling a ranger with Cof/Fungi ubertwink etc. Occasionally I'll ooc that I'm LFG. Not because I need a group at that level, but so i can help out some people levelling by tanking/cc/dps. It amazes me that even with all this gear people still don't want to group with rangers.

It doesn't bother me, because I can go solo or group with some friends. But the level of bigotry is becoming a detriment to the leveling groups if they're turning away people so blindly.

[Reguiy]

...I just don't get it.



If you play what you want, you can't always expect that to overlap with what other people want.

[Loadsamoney]

If you play what you want, you can't always expect that to overlap with what other people want.

Fair enough, but there shouldn't be this much disdain towards a person for wanting to play a Ranger either.

[sox7d]

Start your own groups and make friends in groups so people will invite you back the next day despite already being able to hold a camp down. I spent VERY little time LFG in MM as my ranger since being good with harmony/camo/bind sight, I was able to chain pull CE extremely fast and safely and I could easily break yard or the tower.

People on this game are fucking despicable when it comes to optimizing effectiveness/exp gain, but if you're assertive, start calling shots and be creative, you can take note of them and deny them later.


Stick to your guns. Invite hybrids even when you're doing fine without them. We're all in this together.

[Aviann]

Start your own groups and make friends in groups so people will invite you back the next day despite already being able to hold a camp down. I spent VERY little time LFG in MM as my ranger since being good with harmony/camo/bind sight, I was able to chain pull CE extremely fast and safely and I could easily break yard or the tower.

People on this game are fucking despicable when it comes to optimizing effectiveness/exp gain, but if you're assertive, start calling shots and be creative, you can take note of them and deny them later.


Stick to your guns. Invite hybrids even when you're doing fine without them. We're all in this together.

I agree 100%, hybrid pride!

[Loadsamoney]

If you play what you want, you can't always expect that to overlap with what other people want.

I know, but I can't expect everyone to absolutely loathe it when the class plays just fine in capable hands. It's not like it contributes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

[Loadsamoney]

Ugh, this posting system is dumb. Twice now I've tried to quote someone and it still hasn't shown up.

We shouldn't need Admin approval before a message gets shown...

[Reguiy]

Start your own groups and make friends in groups so people will invite you back the next day despite already being able to hold a camp down. I spent VERY little time LFG in MM as my ranger since being good with harmony/camo/bind sight, I was able to chain pull CE extremely fast and safely and I could easily break yard or the tower.

People on this game are fucking despicable when it comes to optimizing effectiveness/exp gain, but if you're assertive, start calling shots and be creative, you can take note of them and deny them later.


Stick to your guns. Invite hybrids even when you're doing fine without them. We're all in this together.

This is a good suggestion. Being proactive and making your own groups works wonders. Most people just log in and put up "lfg" and don't want to put in the effort of making one of their own. If you do this consistently you'll always have people to group with, especially if you make yourself a staple in the group, like a good puller.

[Korben]

"I thought players were supposed to play what they wanted to play..."

"Players aren't forced to play with my shitty Ranger, WTF"

[Aviann]

"I thought players were supposed to play what they wanted to play..."

"Players aren't forced to play with my shitty Ranger, WTF"

I'm pretty sure the point is that most of the toxic community sees hybrids as a giant experience sinkhole, but you can keep making your false assessments as to what he is saying.

[sox7d]

New players join red: "Get camped shithead PRAS LOL XDDD"

New players join blue: "We have three people, we're full." "Where the fucks your ragebringer?" "lol i dont group with rangers they take my exp" (actual quote)



wipeitclean

[Aviann]

Let's just make this thread into a name and shame for all of the people who say crap like that ingame, so none of us have to waste our time grouping or trying to group with them in the future.

[Aadill]

"Rangers will take all your XP, contribute nothing to the group, kick your dog and eat any nearby babies."

I'm so hungry right now.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

The level of crying in all these threads is getting astronomical. Red99 may have a point -- blue is truly full of pussies.

[Aviann]

The level of crying in all these threads is getting astronomical. Red99 may have a point -- blue is truly full of pussies.

This guy is one of those haters

[sox7d]

This guy is one of those haters

Let it go, he's just trying to get a reaction.

[Niedar]

Join red, people don't give a shit about optimal groups.

[vid]

I love Rangers in my groups tbqh.

[webrunner5]

I have a Ranger. I had a epic Ranger on live back in the day. I love a Ranger, but I have tried to play the Bastard 10 different times on here and guess what?, they pretty much suck even Twinked to living hell. And I am pretty damned good at playing one.

You had better just get used to Soloing it, and it is life in the slow lane XP wise with the xp penalty and Ranger Ghetto Gate. It was not until AA's came out they where sort of worth a crap and even on live now at level 100 they still are sucking hind tit to a LOT of other classes.

I will admit they will be "Better" in Velious, but. :( There are just some classes that suck in EQ. Wizard nothing to write home to mother about except Planes Porting. Druids pretty much are done at level 52, Paladins are the Redheaded stepchild on here also etc. etc.

[iruinedyourday]

not much is cooler than a lvl 60 ranger.. maybe a BIS lvl 60 ranger.

[Sidelle]

I love Rangers in my groups tbqh.
^^ This.

[zanderklocke]

Every class can do something interesting, so just play whatever you have the most fun playing.

[jcr4990]

"I thought players were supposed to play what they wanted to play..."

"Players aren't forced to play with my shitty Ranger, WTF"/thread

[foldupmonk]

So can we make this into a Ranger thread? Speak up fellow rangers. I want to get 3 rangers, shammy, chanter in a group to level. Im good at my ranger.... I love him.

[IanelarAzure]

Ranger here, love him, honestly haven't had any issues grouping and am 46 now. Just get your DPS up and groups like you just fine, and 1/2 the time I slum it as a crappy tank.

[Magnar]

...not what is statistically the best.

I have a Level 15 Ranger right now. It's a class I enjoy, I like having access to Dual Wield, Double Attack and Kick all in one without the weight or armor limitations of being a Monk. I like having Archery as an option. And I like having the utility of a few small spells without them being my staple.

But I see Rangers (and Paladins) get so much disdain in EC OOC and in popular leveling areas. 80% of the time when I see one asking for a group, myself included, I see some wiseass saying something along the lines of "lol ranger sucks" or "you'll never get a group with that trash class."

What the hell? Why all the hate for hybrids? I thought MMOs were about having fun. Yeah some classes might be a bit better than others, but so what. Having fun means playing what you want to play, not being forced to settle for a class you DON'T want to play because it's statistically better than one you do want...

...I just don't get it.

Fun for me is not dealing with someone's 40% EXP penalty when i could take a rogue of the same level who has their epic and does 10x the damage.

[Aviann]

Fun for me is not dealing with someone's 40% EXP penalty when i could take a rogue of the same level who has their epic and does 10x the damage.

Maybe you should read up on the math behind experience modifiers while grouped.

[Whirled]

New players join red: "Get camped shithead PRAS LOL XDDD"

New players join blue: "We have three people, we're full." "Where the fucks your ragebringer?" "lol i dont group with rangers they take my exp" (actual quote)

wipeitclean

And wizards too... they like us when they need a port or need a few Ice comets than it's exactly what u said up there^... "Wat? no epic?"
WOrst case just tellthem...(see pic below)

http://scitascienda.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/i-first-must-value-your-opinion.jpg?w=620

[Loadsamoney]

Fun for me is not dealing with someone's 40% EXP penalty when i could take a rogue of the same level who has their epic and does 10x the damage.

Is this kind of hate still going to exist for Rangers in Velious when EXP penalties are gone?

[webrunner5]

Is this kind of hate still going to exist for Rangers in Velious when EXP penalties are gone?

When I play a Healer class, Cleric, Shaman I HATE Rangers. They always have agro on them and it is hard to get it off them. So they end up being a damn mana drain to healers as they are a paper tank compared to a Warrior.

And in Velious the fights last a LOT longer so it is even worse. I hope that me, as a healer, in a group, see them running around fearing animals and stay far away from me. :( THey will still be a Solo class in Velious trust me.

[Daldaen]

Rangers who gear towards tanking, as opposed to full STR for DPS, can be decent tanks.

Hell of a lot better than warriors since their aggro is superb. Especially pre-60.

Ranger is one of the best group tank classes since they can harmony outdoors like Unrest, Mistmoore, CoM, and KC (very typical level up path). Making them great pullers as well.

[utenan]

I love rangers. Before kunark opened on P1999 I use to duo with a ranger on my shaman all the time from 30-50 - we once held down windows and most of royals in solb - I had a great time with him.
Granted a lot has changed since kunark opened, but just know there are people who don't care about such things; hell look at my old p1999 screenshots in my sig, im in a solb b group with nothing but hybrids and guess what? I don't remember having moderately slower exp ( we killed really fast anyways ), I remember having fun with some cool people.

[Clark]

I don't group with hybrids they sap too much xp.

They also think they're better than everybody!

[Loadsamoney]

I don't group with hybrids they sap too much xp.

They also think they're better than everybody!

I don't think I'm better than anyone. But I'm also not going to deny someone a group spot simply because of the class they chose. That sort of attitude is toxic to the community.

[Tuljin]

Tons of threads with this same discussion.

Many of the players on P99 are nubs. Then they run their mouths about how much other classes suck. Then healers go ahead and complain on forums about how Rangers hold "too much agro" and they are a mana drain. This is precisely the point of a hybrid tank - to take all the agro and damage. SMH.

Also, the xp penalty is way less of a deal than people make it out to be. Most nubs regularly fill the group rather than play with 4 or 5. A full group is worse xp for everyone than 4 or 5 with a hybrid tank.

Rangers are a tight class. All the nubs that are griefing you are precisely that - nubs. Make some good friends and level with them. Tell everybody else to get fucked.

[jcr4990]

Tons of threads with this same discussion.

Many of the players on P99 are nubs. Then they run their mouths about how much other classes suck. Then healers go ahead and complain on forums about how Rangers hold "too much agro" and they are a mana drain. This is precisely the point of a hybrid tank - to take all the agro and damage. SMH.

Also, the xp penalty is way less of a deal than people make it out to be. Most nubs regularly fill the group rather than play with 4 or 5. A full group is worse xp for everyone than 4 or 5 with a hybrid tank.

Rangers are a tight class. All the nubs that are griefing you are precisely that - nubs. Make some good friends and level with them. Tell everybody else to get fucked.People are "nubs" cause they'd prefer other classes that do the same job(s) better without eating a huge portion of exp?

The logic is flawless with this one. Confirmed mad.

[Ciroco]

Experience mechanics are explained pretty clearly on the wiki, but based on this thread, no one has read it.

[Loadsamoney]

People are "nubs" cause they'd prefer other classes that do the same job(s) better without eating a huge portion of exp?

The logic is flawless with this one. Confirmed mad.

Everquest is about the social aspect, not "how to maximize exp and damage." When you don't allow certain players to group with you because of their chosen class, this leads to a bad community.

The community needs to band together, not eat its own.

[Aviann]

Experience mechanics are explained pretty clearly on the wiki, but based on this thread, no one has read it.

[Loadsamoney]

So experience is more important than the social aspect of the game, maintaining good relationships with the community and its players, and not being a dick to people because of their choice of class?

[sox7d]

ROFL, I love how this discussion was originally about, "Who cares what's the most hyper-efficient?! Play what you like and just have fun!"

to

"Ranger can be completely viable given that they uphold 16.666~% of the groups overall damage output which is completely feasible in the circumstance that they are the only ones in the group capable of putting a damage shield on the tank. The versatility of their crowd control and out-of-combat healing makes up for the difference that you would otherwise get with a monk with SoS and any haste above 21%."


Missing the point. You don't have to be the best. Have fun killing stuff and having the "WoW is so easy lololol" conversation for the 2384.94387 * 10^29th time with your group mates.

[Synthlol]

I thought players were supposed to play what they wanted to play.

If there's something so holy about people playing what they want to, then why is it a problem that some people want to play something ideal?

[Loadsamoney]

If there's something so holy about people playing what they want to, then why is it a problem that some people want to play something ideal?

There's not. But there is a problem with people not wanting to play with other people just because they're playing something not ideal.

[yevea]

...not what is statistically the best.

I have a Level 15 Ranger right now. It's a class I enjoy, I like having access to Dual Wield, Double Attack and Kick all in one without the weight or armor limitations of being a Monk. I like having Archery as an option. And I like having the utility of a few small spells without them being my staple.

But I see Rangers (and Paladins) get so much disdain in EC OOC and in popular leveling areas. 80% of the time when I see one asking for a group, myself included, I see some wiseass saying something along the lines of "lol ranger sucks" or "you'll never get a group with that trash class."

What the hell? Why all the hate for hybrids? I thought MMOs were about having fun. Yeah some classes might be a bit better than others, but so what. Having fun means playing what you want to play, not being forced to settle for a class you DON'T want to play because it's statistically better than one you do want...

...I just don't get it.

hey op

rangers on red are always taken in groups because not only do you provide excellent dps, you are utility as fuck. You can track players for pvp, snare / root / spot heal / sow / kite / pull / etc. You can even tank up to around 40s, and (slightly) beyond w/ a chanter, shaman, or bard in your group to slow.

also Red has massive XP bonuses, making hybrid discrimination not exist. Cleanse yourself of the bloated Blue server, where hybrid and non-epic having melee hate is a reality. You think it is bad at 15, try getting to your 50s and sitting on a KC XP group waiting list for 6 hours, getting bumped whenever an epic rogue zones in.

[Widan]

People are "nubs" cause they'd prefer other classes that do the same job(s) better without eating a huge portion of exp?

The logic is flawless with this one. Confirmed mad.

Hmm yes that extra 6.6% exp you will have to get sure is huge

[sox7d]

Am I the only one that cares about other people getting exp almost as much as my own? If I wanted to reach max level super fast on my own initiative, I'd play a solo class or any other MMORPG. To me, Everquest is much less individualistic. Most classes need each other to progress, and during the times we don't need each other, we should make an effort to at least help each other.

I was in a CoM group as a ranger with a cleric, and 4 epic'd rogues. One rogue left and I replaced him with an iksar shadowknight that had been LFG for quite a bit. Everyone started groaning and getting pissed, I'm 90% sure they probably even talked about a mutiny, but when the SK arrived the experience rate did not change at all. That SK invited me into plenty of groups in the future even when they were doing fine. I still got to level 60 eventually. People need to chill out.

It sickens me that people would rather see another human being sitting on their ass LFG and bored rather than share a negligible amount progress.

[Niedar]

Blue is toxic.

[Aviann]

Blue is toxic.

Tis true. Very sad.

[Grimjaw]

Play on RED where if they say that you can go kill them and you don't have to worry about it XD

come to red, you can play what you want to, on red!

[Mirana]

There's not. But there is a problem with people not wanting to play with other people just because they're playing something not ideal.

Why is this a problem? People can group with whoever they want to. Some people gain enjoyment out of the game by min maxing, which in their mind means not grouping with hybrids. Right or wrong, who are you to tell them how they should spend their one hour of free time tonight?

[sox7d]

Why is this a problem? People can group with whoever they want to. Some people gain enjoyment out of the game by min maxing, which in their mind means not grouping with hybrids. Right or wrong, who are you to tell them how they should spend their one hour of free time tonight?

In a game where many classes can't even play on their own, excluding them for a negligible advantage makes one an asshole.


They have every right to be an asshole. We're just saying that they're assholes.

[jcr4990]

In a game where many classes can't even play on their own, excluding them for a negligible advantage makes one an asshole.


They have every right to be an asshole. We're just saying that they're assholes.One mans negligible is another mans significant. Say what you want but I absolutely notice a difference having hybrids in my groups. It's not pleasant and I'll continue to prefer not grouping with them when possible. At least til the exp penalties are gone. You have every right to cry about it. Just as I have every right to prefer other classes. When the time comes that thr penalties are gone if my name ends up on some hybrid blacklist and they won't group with me so be it. But I'm pretty sure deep down the hybrid players understand why people don't want to group with them. Instead of crying and blaming the players that simply don't want to waste exp. Why don't we make a "Brad McQuaid and friends are jerks for making my class a hindrance to groups" thread instead? Then we can all cry together instead of arguing amongst ourselves.

Or you can keep calling 80% of the server assholes for not wanting to throw exp away. Either way.

[sox7d]

Rofl at the sentiment here.

I swear if they had it their way the character creation screen would consist of:


Ogre warrior
Barbarian rogue (if you have 35k for epic)
Enchanter
Troll / Ogre Shaman
Iksar Monk (because they don't have any penalty)

[Loadsamoney]

One mans negligible is another mans significant. Say what you want but I absolutely notice a difference having hybrids in my groups. It's not pleasant and I'll continue to prefer not grouping with them when possible. At least til the exp penalties are gone. You have every right to cry about it. Just as I have every right to prefer other classes. When the time comes that thr penalties are gone if my name ends up on some hybrid blacklist and they won't group with me so be it. But I'm pretty sure deep down the hybrid players understand why people don't want to group with them. Instead of crying and blaming the players that simply don't want to waste exp. Why don't we make a "Brad McQuaid and friends are jerks for making my class a hindrance to groups" thread instead? Then we can all cry together instead of arguing amongst ourselves.

Or you can keep calling 80% of the server assholes for not wanting to throw exp away. Either way.

So you'll continue to not group and avoid someone that might be an awesome person IRL just because of the class they rolled?

Do you hear yourself? Do you know how bigoted and elitist that is? Can you imagine how that player must feel?

[kaev]

Rofl at the sentiment here.

I swear if they had it their way the character creation screen would consist of:


Ogre warrior
Barbarian rogue (if you have 35k for epic)
Enchanter
Troll / Ogre Shaman
Iksar Monk (because they don't have any penalty)


don't forget:
Dwarf Cleric for +MR and Dwarf Cultural Armor
and of course they need their boxed druid/wizard port-/buff-bots

One can hope that these people will all be euthanized in the name of efficiency the day they can no longer hold a job IRL.

[sox7d]

So you'll continue to not group and avoid someone that might be an awesome person IRL just because of the class they rolled?

Do you hear yourself? Do you know how bigoted and elitist that is? Can you imagine how that player must feel?

He really doesn't give a shit. People like him would jump at the idea of botting made legal on this server because more pixels.

[sox7d]

One mans negligible is another mans significant. Say what you want but I absolutely notice a difference having hybrids in my groups. It's not pleasant and I'll continue to prefer not grouping with them when possible. At least til the exp penalties are gone. You have every right to cry about it. Just as I have every right to prefer other classes. When the time comes that thr penalties are gone if my name ends up on some hybrid blacklist and they won't group with me so be it. But I'm pretty sure deep down the hybrid players understand why people don't want to group with them. Instead of crying and blaming the players that simply don't want to waste exp. Why don't we make a "Brad McQuaid and friends are jerks for making my class a hindrance to groups" thread instead? Then we can all cry together instead of arguing amongst ourselves.

Or you can keep calling 80% of the server assholes for not wanting to throw exp away. Either way.

Thanks for embodying the cancer of P99 in one post.

[kaev]

Thanks for embodying the cancer of P99 in one post.

But that's ok, because he's such an awesome mindreader that he can be utterly confident that everybody else deepdown has a worldview just as short-sightedly self-absorbed as his.

[Loadsamoney]

Do people feel the same way about Bards? Because I'd like to think that a good Bard is worth incurring the EXP penalty for, given the utility they can bring to a group if they know what they're doing.

[Jimjam]

When I play a Healer class, Cleric, Shaman I HATE Rangers. They always have agro on them and it is hard to get it off them. So they end up being a damn mana drain to healers as they are a paper tank compared to a Warrior.

And in Velious the fights last a LOT longer so it is even worse. I hope that me, as a healer, in a group, see them running around fearing animals and stay far away from me. :( THey will still be a Solo class in Velious trust me.

Rangers have root, so in a lot of fights the group should be able to ensure the mob is hitting the main tank most of the time.

[Reguiy]

Experience mechanics are explained pretty clearly on the wiki, but based on this thread, no one has read it.

Frankly, the wiki page favors the "elitist xp hogs." The idea is that you group with hybrids that have gained a similar amount of xp, but only hybrids who are X levels behind you will fit in to that criteria. So if you group with a hybrid who is that far behind you in actual levels, they probably wont even be able to land spells on the mobs you're fighting, which is supposed to be the main draw of hybrids. So basically that argument doesn't work if you're trying to debate them being efficient.

This all comes down to whether you want to level up quickly, or whether you want to enjoy the company of everyone on the way to the top, and not just the efficient levelers. Thankfully, when Velious comes around you wont have to make that choice.

[Loadsamoney]

Frankly, the wiki page favors the "elitist xp hogs." The idea is that you group with hybrids that have gained a similar amount of xp, but only hybrids who are X levels behind you will fit in to that criteria. So if you group with a hybrid who is that far behind you in actual levels, they probably wont even be able to land spells on the mobs you're fighting, which is supposed to be the main draw of hybrids. So basically that argument doesn't work if you're trying to debate them being efficient.

This all comes down to whether you want to level up quickly, or whether you want to enjoy the company of everyone on the way to the top, and not just the efficient levelers. Thankfully, when Velious comes around you wont have to make that choice.

Why do I feel like people are still going to avoid Rangers in Velious just because other classes can do specific roles better, even with the removal of the EXP penalty?

[mr_jon3s]

Do people feel the same way about Bards? Because I'd like to think that a good Bard is worth incurring the EXP penalty for, given the utility they can bring to a group if they know what they're doing.

It depends. Are you a good bard? Everyone loves a good bard that can pull, mez, twist, and fight all at the same time.

[Loadsamoney]

It depends. Are you a good bard? Everyone loves a good bard that can pull, mez, twist, and fight all at the same time.

I could learn to be one, and yes I can do all of that, but that's a lot to ask ONE player to do. So I'm not surprised a lot of people don't want to play a Bard. It's a hard life.

I might play one in the future when their Epic becomes easier to get (through Trak becoming a turn-in spawned mob and not a poopsock).

How well does a Bard do when soloing in melee combat, assuming the Bard has decent equipment, uses the right songs (self haste, target slow, dot, hymn), etc? Can they hold their own when soloing in melee at the higher levels?

[Ciroco]

Frankly, the wiki page favors the "elitist xp hogs." The idea is that you group with hybrids that have gained a similar amount of xp, but only hybrids who are X levels behind you will fit in to that criteria. So if you group with a hybrid who is that far behind you in actual levels, they probably wont even be able to land spells on the mobs you're fighting, which is supposed to be the main draw of hybrids. So basically that argument doesn't work if you're trying to debate them being efficient.

People will invite a non-hybrid class that is 5 levels higher than the rest of the group with nary an eye batted, but mention inviting a hybrid that is the same level as everyone else and the exp sponge complaints come pouring in. The misinformation perpetuates itself.

[Clark]

I don't think I'm better than anyone. But I'm also not going to deny someone a group spot simply because of the class they chose. That sort of attitude is toxic to the community.

Relax my friend I'm obviously jk. :rolleyes: Joke was directed at the hybrids in general not you.

[Faiding]

I can see why someone would want to maximize their XP intake. Complaining about not getting any raid mobs is much more exciting than complaining about hybrids.

[Waedawen]

The players who mock you for your class are bad and don't matter

[iruinedyourday]

This thread delivers

[murcielago200]

I go out of my way to bash rangers. I enjoy grouping with them as much as any other class but its fun to trash rangers/paladins/SKs. I do it more to get a rise out of the classes then anything.

[Thiefboy777]

Let's talk about how much warriors suck, at least Rangers can hold agro and only have a 35% more xp pen then that Ogre Warrior who is actually only tanking about 50% of the time.

Bonus for healers: let the Ranger tank, you only have to heal one person instead of six.

[applesauce25r624]

i cite roleplaying reasons so i don't sound like an ass when i reject them

confessionbear.jpg

[Loadsamoney]

Well, I guess that means I have to go /anon and not cast spells and pretend to be a warrior.

[webrunner5]

This thread is getting crazy about the Hybrid Penalty. Hardly anyone on here even gives a thought about it when they need someone in a group. If a Iksar SK shows up and you NEED a tank you know damned well he is going to get invited.

The Ranger will pull and the SK will tank. The SK will hate the Ranger for taking agro half the time but hey it works. And you will get tons of kills and that is what a group is all about. :p

[myriverse]

The Ranger will pull and the SK will tank. The SK will hate the Ranger for taking agro half the time but hey it works. And you will get tons of kills and that is what a group is all about. :p
Any good SK is going to hate the Ranger regardless. :p

But not simply for being a Ranger.

[Mirana]

So you'll continue to not group and avoid someone that might be an awesome person IRL just because of the class they rolled?

Do you hear yourself? Do you know how bigoted and elitist that is? Can you imagine how that player must feel?

Based on this thread, it is very obvious that you are a social person. You gain self worth by improving others. You are the type of person that can't understand why a player would be rejected a group simply because of their class and that is completely ok!

Many other people gain satisfaction through efficiency. It is how their brain works. They strive for maximum output at everything they do. They are not concerned with social customs. They are the kind of player that can't understand why someone would create a suboptimal race/class combination and that is completely ok as well.

However, in neither situation is the player an asshole. They simply play the game for different reasons, because they are different people.

[Jereel]

...not what is statistically the best.

I have a Level 15 Ranger right now. It's a class I enjoy, I like having access to Dual Wield, Double Attack and Kick all in one without the weight or armor limitations of being a Monk. I like having Archery as an option. And I like having the utility of a few small spells without them being my staple.

But I see Rangers (and Paladins) get so much disdain in EC OOC and in popular leveling areas. 80% of the time when I see one asking for a group, myself included, I see some wiseass saying something along the lines of "lol ranger sucks" or "you'll never get a group with that trash class."

What the hell? Why all the hate for hybrids? I thought MMOs were about having fun. Yeah some classes might be a bit better than others, but so what. Having fun means playing what you want to play, not being forced to settle for a class you DON'T want to play because it's statistically better than one you do want...

...I just don't get it.

In this state of perma-Kunark, we are past the days where people could make it work with any class. In the old days, rangers weren't a favored class, but with decent equipment, they could perform the task of DPSing, or sometimes tanking (at lower levels) just fine. But we're in an age where a significant % of players have high end gear, and this shines light on classes that sadly.... come up short. Balance wasn't in Sony's vocabulary at the time. And here we have a semi-classic experience. Classic world setup with a very-unclassic amount of gear floating around.

[Fatty]

How well does a Bard do when soloing in melee combat, assuming the Bard has decent equipment, uses the right songs (self haste, target slow, dot, hymn), etc? Can they hold their own when soloing in melee at the higher levels?

Just "ok" imo, assuming you're not pbaoe kiting. My bard is low level so I cannot comment on higher levels - It may improve.

I've chosen not to pb kite since that's just not my style. I am not rushing to 60.

As far as 1 on 1 melee combat w/songs, I would like to hear how well bards solo from 30-40+. Thanks

[FindCorpse]

Rangers are a fun class to play, they develop slowly but at level 60 you can do anything you want. I feel naked running around without track now, I see everything!

[Whirled]

Just stopped by to browse...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fScy9BgPEs
~Stop the hybrid hate 2014~

[myriverse]

Based on this thread, it is very obvious that you are a social person. You gain self worth by improving others. You are the type of person that can't understand why a player would be rejected a group simply because of their class and that is completely ok!

Many other people gain satisfaction through efficiency. It is how their brain works. They strive for maximum output at everything they do. They are not concerned with social customs. They are the kind of player that can't understand why someone would create a suboptimal race/class combination and that is completely ok as well.

However, in neither situation is the player an asshole. They simply play the game for different reasons, because they are different people.
Not sure how "completely" ok that is since the game is a social one. And shunning people is being an asshole.

[Daldaen]

Hybrid hate is pretty bad.

My bard is hated on in OT because I can't fathom why!
My paladin is hated on because he prefers to group or duo as opposed to a boring 6man conventional group.

But hybrids generally can solo pretty well or duo/trio well in most situations. You don't need full groups. Usually they are just boring and unnecessary.

A ranger with harmony makes breaking unrest, Mistmoore, and CoM rooms trivial, which greatly decreases danger. Best duo I had with paladin thus far has been druid or ranger. Harmony, so baller.

[Mirana]

Not sure how "completely" ok that is since the game is a social one. And shunning people is being an asshole.

You play it as a social game. Not everyone does. Some people just want to log on their necro and enjoy isolation for a couple hours as they decompress and enjoy some whiskey on the rocks.

A person that responds to a group request by saying "sorry friend, I'm REALLY trying to get out of this hell level tonight so I'm just going to solo" is not an asshole.

To me, the asshole is the person who expects others to play the game the same way he/she does.

[webrunner5]

A ranger with harmony makes breaking unrest, Mistmoore, and CoM rooms trivial, which greatly decreases danger. Best duo I had with paladin thus far has been druid or ranger. Harmony, so baller.

Add KC in there also as well as any other Outdoor Zone. Yeah Harmony and Ensnare are great spells for a Ranger and Druid. Rangers make great pullers in outdoor zones. I think better than a Monk and a SK. They can break mobs faster put it that way. :p But FD with the Monk, SK can save the whole groups ass compared to something going wrong with the Ranger pull. Although FD has been nerfed so it is not always going to work also. Nobody ever said pulling in high level dungeons was easy lol.

[Erati]

just get a Rain Caller for your ranger and everyone will love you

[fadetree]

Just ignore the hate. It's part of being a ranger. You don't want to group with those people anyways, they are dumbasses. At least they self-identify. When you do get in groups/duos, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY. Moronic monks and stupid rogues are given a pass, but any mistake you make as a ranger will be taken as proof. Save a few clerics and enchanters. Park mobs. Harmony pull. Show what you can do. Know how aggro works. Peel with flame lick/snare/spam heals. etc. Most of all - don't whine, just do your best. You can expect to be shunned by some, so get used to it.

Look at it this way - any fool can play most classes to 60. When I see a 60 Ranger, I am seriously impressed. When I see a 60 knight, I am impressed. Most other classes - yawn. Rogue - lol.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

All 60s pretty easy here. Dat chardok flow.

[sox7d]

http://i.imgur.com/vXy2Xp5.png

[sox7d]

All 60s pretty easy here. Dat chardok flow.



"I ain't payin 2k a pull with a hybrid in the group"

[fadetree]

No self respecting Ranger would do that cheesy shiz anyways.

[Daldaen]

"I ain't payin 2k a pull with a hybrid in the group"

This is one thing I find fascinating.

People will still pay the flat 2k when they are with 2 SKs, 2 Bards, Wizard and themself...

[jcr4990]

One mans negligible is another mans significant. Say what you want but I absolutely notice a difference having hybrids in my groups. It's not pleasant and I'll continue to prefer not grouping with them when possible. At least til the exp penalties are gone. You have every right to cry about it. Just as I have every right to prefer other classes. When the time comes that thr penalties are gone if my name ends up on some hybrid blacklist and they won't group with me so be it. But I'm pretty sure deep down the hybrid players understand why people don't want to group with them. Instead of crying and blaming the players that simply don't want to waste exp. Why don't we make a "Brad McQuaid and friends are jerks for making my class a hindrance to groups" thread instead? Then we can all cry together instead of arguing amongst ourselves.

Or you can keep calling 80% of the server assholes for not wanting to throw exp away. Either way.From the sounds of it. We're going with the "Keep calling 80% of the server assholes for not wanting to throw exp away" option? Sounds dumb but I will defend your right to say it!


Based on this thread, it is very obvious that you are a social person. You gain self worth by improving others. You are the type of person that can't understand why a player would be rejected a group simply because of their class and that is completely ok!

Many other people gain satisfaction through efficiency. It is how their brain works. They strive for maximum output at everything they do. They are not concerned with social customs. They are the kind of player that can't understand why someone would create a suboptimal race/class combination and that is completely ok as well.

However, in neither situation is the player an asshole. They simply play the game for different reasons, because they are different people.This guy knows what's up. You aren't wrong for not wanting to group with hybrids. You aren't wrong for wanting to solo for better exp over grouping. You aren't wrong for duoing a camp even if other people are LFG nearby. Some camps can only sustain a few players. If you're clearing all the spawns in a camp with 2-3 people why should you feel obligated to invite other people so you can sit around waiting for repops together?

The only assholes are the ones that expect others to adhere to their view of how the game should be played. If I don't want to group with hybrids I don't have to. If you do that's fine you can do whatever you want but don't give me shit for not playing like you think I should. You won't catch me giving you shit for playing how you want to play. Who's the asshole here?

[bloodmuffin]

My average group for Seb tends to go Cleric/(Sk,War,Pal)/Rogue/Shaman/Enchanter/Monk.

I've grouped with a few rangers, all whom were our pullers, but those were few and far between. Wasn't anything exceptional besides tracking and harmony, which was nice. When you have a camp you can easily rotate through, it throws them out of the picture, as I'd take something with more DPS.

I'd never throw out one class for another but I personally wouldn't take a ranger over anything else that was available when forming. I'm not saying they are a terrible class but when it comes to killing speed, rangers are not a go-to choice.

[sox7d]

The only assholes are the ones that expect others to adhere to their view of how the game should be played. If I don't want to group with hybrids I don't have to. If you do that's fine you can do whatever you want but don't give me shit for not playing like you think I should. You won't catch me giving you shit for playing how you want to play. Who's the asshole here?

"How one thinks the game should be played" has nothing to do with it. If you're in a game where the only thing keeping someone from playing for an ~hour stretch of sitting on their ass bored is that you want a tiny bit of experience, you're selfish aka an asshole.


And don't give me the "They're not mean, they just derive fun from efficiency!" bullshit. No. Everyone wants to be efficient. They probably won't leave the group for a better class to replace themselves for the sole purpose of it making the group more efficient. The derive fun from efficiency for their own self-interest, often at the expense of others given the scarcity and often unsoloable nature of the game. They'd rather see someone unable to play than sacrifice a tiny bit of experience, that's what makes them an asshole, but you can call that a "play style" if you'd like.


This is one thing I find fascinating.

People will still pay the flat 2k when they are with 2 SKs, 2 Bards, Wizard and themself...


As a wizard, I've had this said to me several times before.

[Danth]

Online role-playing game players can sometimes have a tendency to see things in absolute terms. They'll vehemently argue over the necessity of a couple percent here and there, or insist that if something isn't completely optimal, then it's completely useless with no in-between. I've never agreed with such a mindset, but it exists and it probably isn't going away. Just have to accept it and ignore the folks who think that way.

Back when P1999 was new and the experience penalties were glitched and not shared, I ran into folks who insisted on going short-handed rather than invite a Ranger. Think I even have part of such a conversation on an old screenshot, even. As such I wouldn't count on the Velious removal of experience penalties to do too much to improve their desirability.

Danth

[sox7d]

Online role-playing game players can sometimes have a tendency to see things in absolute terms. They'll vehemently argue over the necessity of a couple percent here and there, or insist that if something isn't completely optimal, then it's completely useless with no in-between. I've never agreed with such a mindset, but it exists and it probably isn't going away. Just have to accept it and ignore the folks who think that way.

Back when P1999 was new and the experience penalties were glitched and not shared, I ran into folks who insisted on going short-handed rather than invite a Ranger. Think I even have part of such a conversation on an old screenshot, even. As such I wouldn't count on the Velious removal of experience penalties to do too much to improve their desirability.

Danth


While I'd argue that the penalties should be done away with as the majority of players in classic were ignorant to hybrid penalties and would better emulate the classic experience. Yes, they exist and they have every right to be exclusionary, but let's not act like they're not shit heads for doing so.

[Loadsamoney]

While I'd argue that the penalties should be done away with as the majority of players in classic were ignorant to hybrid penalties and would better emulate the classic experience. Yes, they exist and they have every right to be exclusionary, but let's not act like they're not shit heads for doing so.

That's what jrc doesn't get. He wants us to "not tell him who to group with" and if he wants to "avoid grouping with hybrids who are you to tell me I can't?" I'm not telling you that you can't jrc, but don't even try to argue that it doesn't make you look like an ass, because it certainly does. Refusing to group with someone for a reason as trivial as "I don't want anything to do with that class" or "it'll take me 3 extra minutes to gain a level with their EXP penalty" is ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR.

[Mirana]

"How one thinks the game should be played" has nothing to do with it. If you're in a game where the only thing keeping someone from playing for an ~hour stretch of sitting on their ass bored is that you want a tiny bit of experience, you're selfish aka an asshole.


You are talking about a very specific scenario, where there is a nearly full group that is refusing a player simply because they are a hybrid. A lot of places are overcamped and can be duo'd/trio'd due to mob scarcity... in this instance, it would be detrimental to invite any class, but a hybrid just makes it that much worse.

The instance that would occur most frequently when I was playing was something like this. My brother and I would be duoing temple in city of mist, easily clearing about 12 mobs every half hour because that was all we could find. People would come up and see that there were only 2 and ask to join. I would politely decline and state that were are barely enough mobs to keep us busy due to the zone being overcamped. (The hybrid discussion is irrelevant here).

If this makes me an asshole then I guess I'm an asshole.

[Loadsamoney]

You are talking about a very specific scenario, where there is a nearly full group that is refusing a player simply because they are a hybrid. A lot of places are overcamped and can be duo'd/trio'd due to mob scarcity... in this instance, it would be detrimental to invite any class, but a hybrid just makes it that much worse.

The instance that would occur most frequently when I was playing was something like this. My brother and I would be duoing temple in city of mist, easily clearing about 12 mobs every half hour because that was all we could find. People would come up and see that there were only 2 and ask to join. I would politely decline and state that were are barely enough mobs to keep us busy due to the zone being overcamped. (The hybrid discussion is irrelevant here).

If this makes me an asshole then I guess I'm an asshole.

No, that doesn't make you an asshole. But if you have 5 people and are looking for a 6th, you have every role covered, and you deny the spot to a hybrid simply because they're playing a hybrid, then you are being asslike. What we're talking about is a very specific scenario, yes, but it's one you see a LOT of on Blue.

[Mirana]

No, that doesn't make you an asshole. But if you have 5 people and are looking for a 6th, you have every role covered, and you deny the spot to a hybrid simply because they're playing a hybrid, then you are being asslike. What we're talking about is a very specific scenario, yes, but it's one you see a LOT of on Blue.

Ah, I understand. Yes, I would tend to agree with you there for the most part.

[fadetree]

Online role-playing game players can sometimes have a tendency to see things in absolute terms.
Danth

NO THEY DON't. They never have; they never will. This is absolutely FALSE.

[baalzy]

Hybrid hate is pretty bad.

My bard is hated on in OT because I can't fathom why!
My paladin is hated on because he prefers to group or duo as opposed to a boring 6man conventional group.

But hybrids generally can solo pretty well or duo/trio well in most situations. You don't need full groups. Usually they are just boring and unnecessary.

A ranger with harmony makes breaking unrest, Mistmoore, and CoM rooms trivial, which greatly decreases danger. Best duo I had with paladin thus far has been druid or ranger. Harmony, so baller.

Sneak pulling from 200+ range is so OP you don't even need harmony. Casters are the only problem because they'll break your sneak and agro everything around them but if arrow flight time ever got implemented that problem would be easily solved too. With sufficient skill though, root makes up for it anyways.

[utenan]

don't just assume that a hybrid will take up more exp either - "Race/Class combos with no penalty but who are 6 levels higher than you nerf your xp more than the hybrid who is the same level as you in most cases" - group with hybrids that are lower than you, or people with the same total exp in general, and it's not even a problem

[iruinedyourday]

NO THEY DON't. They never have; they never will. This is absolutely FALSE.

lol

[Loadsamoney]

NO THEY DON't. They never have; they never will. This is absolutely FALSE.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSS90hRETb_TtTLEtShPv1YM1SDnvbka PnS4NQo0dnIlRdCJOIW-g

IF YOU ARE NOT WITH ME, THEN YOU ARE MY ENEMY!

[sox7d]

don't just assume that a hybrid will take up more exp either - "Race/Class combos with no penalty but who are 6 levels higher than you nerf your xp more than the hybrid who is the same level as you in most cases" - group with hybrids that are lower than you, or people with the same total exp in general, and it's not even a problem

This is a point that isn't brought up nearly enough.

[jcr4990]

"How one thinks the game should be played" has nothing to do with it. If you're in a game where the only thing keeping someone from playing for an ~hour stretch of sitting on their ass bored is that you want a tiny bit of experience, you're selfish aka an asshole.

And don't give me the "They're not mean, they just derive fun from efficiency!" bullshit. No. Everyone wants to be efficient. They probably won't leave the group for a better class to replace themselves for the sole purpose of it making the group more efficient. The derive fun from efficiency for their own self-interest, often at the expense of others given the scarcity and often unsoloable nature of the game. They'd rather see someone unable to play than sacrifice a tiny bit of experience, that's what makes them an asshole, but you can call that a "play style" if you'd like."And don't give me the "They're not mean, they just derive fun from efficiency!" bullshit." Why exactly is this bullshit? That's exactly what it is for me. I'm a min/max'er and that's part of the fun of the game for me. I couldn't possibly care less if you like it or not. I would've preferred to make my shaman an iksar but I went troll cause JBB is really important to my class imo. Others think I'm insane cause the appearance of their character and what they think looks better is more important to them. More power to them but that's not what's important to me. Guess I'm an asshole :(

Let me ask you this. If your group already has a cleric and there's a cleric LFG nearby are you an asshole for not wanting 2 clerics in your group? Clerics can't solo well man! Obviously you're a dick if you don't invite every class that can't solo to your group whenever they're LFG in your area right?


TL;DR "You view/play the game differently than I do. Hence you are an asshole" - sox7d

[iruinedyourday]

I think this thread illustrates perfectly the myriad of personality disorders that make grouping in a social online fantasy roleplaying game, a little difficult. bravo pras etc.

[kaev]

...
Let me ask you this. If your group already has a cleric and there's a cleric LFG nearby are you an asshole for not wanting 2 clerics in your group? Clerics can't solo well man! Obviously you're a dick if you don't invite every class that can't solo to your group whenever they're LFG in your area right?


TL;DR "You view/play the game differently than I do. Hence you are an asshole" - sox7d

I've been that lfg cleric who got invited to a group that already had a cleric. A bit puzzling, I'll admit, but turned out to be quite a fun group both times it happened. In my experience EQ is quite amazingly fun to play when you unclench a bit.

[iruinedyourday]

I've been that lfg cleric who got invited to a group that already had a cleric. A bit puzzling, I'll admit, but turned out to be quite a fun group both times it happened. In my experience EQ is quite amazingly fun to play when you unclench a bit.

yea man what if in lguk, thats a bawse addition to a group :P one cleric becomes the highest dps in the group outa nowhere heh

[Loadsamoney]

yea man what if in lguk, thats a bawse addition to a group :P one cleric becomes the highest dps in the group outa nowhere heh

A Paladin becomes quite the beast down there too, especially one with Ghoulbane.

[sox7d]

"And don't give me the "They're not mean, they just derive fun from efficiency!" bullshit." Why exactly is this bullshit? That's exactly what it is for me. I'm a min/max'er and that's part of the fun of the game for me. I couldn't possibly care less if you like it or not. I would've preferred to make my shaman an iksar but I went troll cause JBB is really important to my class imo. Others think I'm insane cause the appearance of their character and what they think looks better is more important to them. More power to them but that's not what's important to me. Guess I'm an asshole :(

Let me ask you this. If your group already has a cleric and there's a cleric LFG nearby are you an asshole for not wanting 2 clerics in your group? Clerics can't solo well man! Obviously you're a dick if you don't invite every class that can't solo to your group whenever they're LFG in your area right?


TL;DR "You view/play the game differently than I do. Hence you are an asshole" - sox7d

My point was that there isn't a dichotomy of "I just like altruism" and "I just like efficiency." Liking efficiency doesn't make one an asshole. Being altruistic doesn't make one hate efficiency. And in all the cases stated earlier, it's due to efficiency in one's own favor, not efficiency for the sake of efficiency.

If that were the case, say you have a group of a warrior, a cleric, a monk, a rogue, an enchanter and a necromancer. They see an epic'd rogue call LFG. The "efficient-minded" necro would say "I'd love to get more exp but I'm going to leave so you guys can get that rogue. It will make this camp more efficient."

That shit doesn't happen.

Meanwhile, lets say you have a group of a warrior, cleric and a monk. The monk has a fungi and volunteers to take hits whenever above 80% health to benefit from his fungi's regen. He's an iksar for the armor bonus and regen. He shares his shrunken goblin skull earring with the warrior for the extra atk and puts on strength jewelry over his HP/AC gear since he's not typically tanking. He's ran parsers with several different weapons to find out which combination is optimal and he pays off an enchanter ever half hour to visit the group for haste and clarity. They're holding the camp fine but not absolutely shredding through it. Meanwhile, a ShadowKnight has been LFG for the last 45 minutes. The monk invites them because they hate to see people sitting on their ass when they could give another human being the opportunity to play the game with them. They value efficiency and altruism. They're non-exclusive. (Then the warrior berserks while the shadowknight tanks for more dps.)

And yeah, I typically do invite every class to my groups if they can't solo. My rule of thumb is after 2-3 LFG calls I bring em over.

[iruinedyourday]

whatever happened to the, 'hey guys wana xp with me in Gorge of King Xorbb tonight?' threads? I bet people who play wat they wana play are welcome in that group.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

"And don't give me the "They're not mean, they just derive fun from efficiency!" bullshit." Why exactly is this bullshit? That's exactly what it is for me. I'm a min/max'er and that's part of the fun of the game for me. I couldn't possibly care less if you like it or not. I would've preferred to make my shaman an iksar but I went troll cause JBB is really important to my class imo. Others think I'm insane cause the appearance of their character and what they think looks better is more important to them. More power to them but that's not what's important to me. Guess I'm an asshole :(

Let me ask you this. If your group already has a cleric and there's a cleric LFG nearby are you an asshole for not wanting 2 clerics in your group? Clerics can't solo well man! Obviously you're a dick if you don't invite every class that can't solo to your group whenever they're LFG in your area right?


TL;DR "You view/play the game differently than I do. Hence you are an asshole" - sox7d

Non ogre min maxing shaman? Bro do you even frontal stun immunity ?

[Portasaurus]

whatever happened to the, 'hey guys wana xp with me in Gorge of King Xorbb tonight?' threads? I bet people who play wat they wana play are welcome in that group.

Let's go kill eyeballs next time we 're both on. ALL RACES AND CLASSES WELCOME!

Gotcha some sweet eyeballs loot

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Let's go kill eyeballs next time we 're both on. ALL RACES AND CLASSES WELCOME!

Gotcha some sweet eyeballs loot

Delicious eye meat

[iruinedyourday]

sweet sweet meat of the lower orbital volume.

[WolfsongReborn]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I gotta ask; having never played a hybrid myself...A pally has X exp penalty for being a hybrid class. How does that paladin's personal exp penalty in some way slow the group's exp as a whole?

What am I missing?

[sox7d]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I gotta ask; having never played a hybrid myself...A pally has X exp penalty for being a hybrid class. How does that paladin's personal exp penalty in some way slow the group's exp as a whole?

What am I missing?


In a group of all lvl 40s has a paladin in it, it's treated as if the paladin is lvl ~44

[sulpher01]

When I play a Healer class, Cleric, Shaman I HATE Rangers. They always have agro on them and it is hard to get it off them. So they end up being a damn mana drain to healers as they are a paper tank compared to a Warrior.


lol you heal rangers??

[Loadsamoney]

lol you heal rangers??

A healer heals anyone in the group that needs it.

[HappyTr33z]

Join red, people don't give a shit about optimal groups.

[jcr4990]

Non ogre min maxing shaman? Bro do you even frontal stun immunity ?Very overrated imo. Only really super useful if you plan on going for super hard solo fights. Solo artist challenge type stuff. For every day soloing not that big of a deal. Also I don't solo very much I spend way more time duoing and I find the regen significantly more useful even after Torpor.

[fadetree]

A healer heals anyone in the group that needs it.

If a non-tanking, non-pulling Ranger needs direct heals more than once or twice during a grind session, they are doing it wrong. If I am not tanking or pulling, I absolutely HATE to get direct healed, it means I failed. Toss me a hot occasionally and I'll take care of the rest. Learn 2 aggrocontrol. Root and backoff if you have to. It'll make the war think he's being awesome at aggro.

[katrik]

Very overrated imo. Only really super useful if you plan on going for super hard solo fights. Solo artist challenge type stuff. For every day soloing not that big of a deal. Also I don't solo very much I spend way more time duoing and I find the regen significantly more useful even after Torpor.

iksars confirmed master race

[Karkona]

...not what is statistically the best.

I have a Level 15 Ranger right now. It's a class I enjoy, I like having access to Dual Wield, Double Attack and Kick all in one without the weight or armor limitations of being a Monk. I like having Archery as an option. And I like having the utility of a few small spells without them being my staple.

But I see Rangers (and Paladins) get so much disdain in EC OOC and in popular leveling areas. 80% of the time when I see one asking for a group, myself included, I see some wiseass saying something along the lines of "lol ranger sucks" or "you'll never get a group with that trash class."

What the hell? Why all the hate for hybrids? I thought MMOs were about having fun. Yeah some classes might be a bit better than others, but so what. Having fun means playing what you want to play, not being forced to settle for a class you DON'T want to play because it's statistically better than one you do want...

...I just don't get it.

Ranger hate is classic. It's a small price to pay for playing the best class in the game.

[Tuljin]

Everyone seems to forget about track, also