Did I make a mistake by choosing to play wizard?

[Belleraphone]

see title. I was attracted to their high burst damage but after browsing the forum it seems people think pretty lowly of wizards. Could some of the more experienced players offer some clarification on this? Should I reroll? I'm fine with being useless for my low and middle levels, but I'd at least like to be useful at the higher end/raid type stuff. Seems like the general consensus here is that even when wizards are useful, someone else can do it better.

[mrmop520]

Wizards are awesome for raiding. For leveling, you will not get many group offers unless its a group of friends, so you'll be root / nuke, and quadding after 34. Chardok AE is viable and great for 56-60.

[iruinedyourday]

Nah wizards are cool in raids fo-sho.. sounds like you're fine!

[Bboboo]

Can't get to some raids without a Wizard.

[capco]

Wizard lyfe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpgQSbwnWD0

[Estu]

Level 60 wizard here. Some points about wizards:

1) They are OK soloers (in terms of EXP farming). Once you can quad-kite, quad-kiting is pretty good EXP. It's not as good as charming on a druid/enc/necro, and it's not as good as AoE kiting on a bard (obviously), but it is nice and easy. The main problem is finding areas to quad that are not already being occupied by quadders and non-quadders. A small pet peeve of mine is going to one of the few places I can quad at a given level and finding a bunch of non-quadders soloing there when they could be in any of a million other places. In terms of level 60 cash camp soloing, they are pretty weak.

2) They are sub-par in groups. Their DPS output is very poor compared to any melee or pet class. Their crowd control ability is also poor. People will tell you that a good wizard is an amazing addition to a group because of their ability to crowd control and deal with casters. In my opinion, this is overrated. Tons of classes have abilities to interrupt casters, and tons of classes have roots or snares. Most every EXP group you'll find is going to have an enchanter or a bard doing CC much better than any wizard could hope to. The exception is Chardok AE groups from around level 56 onward - if you manage to get a spot in one (demand is high), this is very very fast EXP during a time that most classes struggle for ages to get to 60. I did all of level 59 in a single day in Chardok, it was great.

3) Their raiding chops are, in my opinion, overrated. Wizard raid DPS is good, but a rogue is better than a wizard for most raid encounters. The problem with wizards is not that they cannot put out damage, but that they cannot manage their aggro. Their only means of aggro management is the spell Concussion, which will NOT land on the majority of raid bosses. As such, they cannot afford to put out rogue-level DPS, because they will get aggro and die. Rogues have the excellent ability Evade which lets them DPS their hearts out without getting aggro; monks have Feign Death; wizards have basically nothing. I'm leveling a rogue and I'm really enjoying it - I can feel like I'm actually contributing to my group, rather than feeling like I'm leeching EXP and doing very little of benefit, and I know that once I hit 60, for most raid bosses I will be the #1 DPS class.

Adding on to all of the above, wizards are a very dull and one-dimensional class, and playing them is in my experience a snoozefest. Taking everything into account, I would rate the wizard as the overall second-worst class in classic EQ, behind the ranger (which isn't to say that neither class has anything going for them, or that you can't have fun with these classes). I do not recommend the class unless you're absolutely sure that it's what you want.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Estu--wizards are god tier on fights that are actually hard. Fucking mvps of gore and hosh. Very useful on all bosses but those two they are just huge helps. It really depends on the level of which you raid. They're massive for class c and only somewhat important in r. Gore when you have time to prep isn't all that bad. Neither is hosh. But melee on both fights benefit greatly from formed groups or dispel\cure and clickies. Wort\soulfire\prayers op.

[Uuruk]

Are you able to poopsock for raids? It's miserable raiding on blue right now and in general playing on it. Come on over to red and give it a shot.

[Tongpow]

[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!

not me, but yeah wizards p gud much fun

[Raev]

I suspect concussion works even when resisted. At least I am fairly sure the warrior +hate proc works even when resisted, so I don't see why the wizard -hate spell should fail.

In my personal opinion Wizards are a top tier raiding class just like Rogues, Warriors, Clerics, and Monks. They aren't a very complicated raiding class, but then raiding is not very complicated.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I suspect concussion works even when resisted. At least I am fairly sure the warrior +hate proc works even when resisted, so I don't see why the wizard -hate spell should fail.

In my personal opinion Wizards are a top tier raiding class just like Rogues, Warriors, Clerics, and Monks. They aren't a very complicated raiding class, but then raiding is not very complicated.

Not going to say complicated but there is a fair bit of skill and coordination that is required for rushed encounters. Especially the harder vp dragons and the way trak is done now.

[Susano]

Biggest problem I encounter raiding on my wizard is mobs moving around too much and I have to cut casts short and reposition for belly casters. This is probably due to my wizard primarily being used for CT, Gore, and Inny, all of which are hectic fights.

Other than that, it's all good times!

[Faiding]

Wizards have always been high demand in raid guilds. It's the leveling up part that sucks.

Get t-flux staff, jboots and just quad kite your way as soon as you get Bonds of Force.

[Pyrion]

The problem with wizards is that their damage spells are not that much better than the competition, while at the same time it's often the only thing they can do in a fight. So you trade almost all versatility for a little bit extra burst damage. For damage per mana the wizard is actually the worst caster class. Every other caster has more mana efficient damage abilities with the only ecxeption of AE spells. Everybody else has DoTs or charms or pets that totally trump the wizard DD spells mana efficiency.

Oh i forgot clerics. Clerics actually are less mana efficient with their damage spells, even for undead, but there they get close. But clerics usually don't have to rely so much on that :).

[Hitpoint]

You chose the best class in the game pretty much. Good solo ability, ports to get around fast, good in groups, great on raids. There's no other class that can has even 3 out of these 4 things.

[Pyrion]

Hmm... let's see.
1) Good solo ability. That maybe true at higher levels, earlier soloing sucks.
2) Ports. Right, you have a point.
3) Good in groups. What game are you playing? Wizard is probably the least wanted class in any group.
4) Great on raids. Well... yes, but far from the best.

Point 3 is the biggest problem of the class, not one of its assets.

[getsome]

I can comment on raiding on a wizard. I do not play him for exp or farming.

On P99, wizard agro can easily be mitigated by your tank dumping a mallet and a few other clickies into a mob. I will not advocate that this is classic wizard play but it works here.

A great wizard with a solid tank will top the DPS and Damage done charts on all fights in Kunark. And will normally never need a healer or bard resist songs if they gear out appropiately and buff themselves properly before each encounter.

I normally only play my wizard outside of VP. On Gore I have done up to 10k damage in a normally balanced 30 man raid. Normal damage in our raids where our raid dps is quite high is closer to 3-7k on most fights.

Velious will move the wizards to a mid tier damage dealer until bane spells are released. Wizards can normally sustain their damage with very little outside assistance in terms of heals or buffs etc. so raiding guilds welcome wizards with open arms.

As for positioning on your wizard, if you find that this an issue, try and use spells with lower cast times (inny and ct where the mobs bounce) . Or position yourself behind your tank if you doing mobs such as Gorenaire where the push can be predicted. Then after each cast, adjust your position in accordance with the push rate, prior to casting your next nuke.

[Man0warr]

You chose the best class in the game pretty much. Good solo ability, ports to get around fast, good in groups, great on raids. There's no other class that can has even 3 out of these 4 things.

Enchanters and Shamans have 3 of the 4.

Unless by "great on raids" means they stack well with others of their class.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Hmm... let's see.
1) Good solo ability. That maybe true at higher levels, earlier soloing sucks.
2) Ports. Right, you have a point.
3) Good in groups. What game are you playing? Wizard is probably the least wanted class in any group.
4) Great on raids. Well... yes, but far from the best.

Point 3 is the biggest problem of the class, not one of its assets.
Agreed on number 3. Leveling a wizard is pure torture. Wizards are the class you power level after you already have other 60s. I can bang out a wiz 1 to 60 in a week or so with casual chardoking 45 plus.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I can comment on raiding on a wizard. I do not play him for exp or farming.

On P99, wizard agro can easily be mitigated by your tank dumping a mallet and a few other clickies into a mob. I will not advocate that this is classic wizard play but it works here.

A great wizard with a solid tank will top the DPS and Damage done charts on all fights in Kunark. And will normally never need a healer or bard resist songs if they gear out appropiately and buff themselves properly before each encounter.

I normally only play my wizard outside of VP. On Gore I have done up to 10k damage in a normally balanced 30 man raid. Normal damage in our raids where our raid dps is quite high is closer to 3-7k on most fights.

Velious will move the wizards to a mid tier damage dealer until bane spells are released. Wizards can normally sustain their damage with very little outside assistance in terms of heals or buffs etc. so raiding guilds welcome wizards with open arms.

As for positioning on your wizard, if you find that is an issue use spells with lower cast times (inny and ct where the mobs bounce) . Or position yourself behind your tank if you doing mobs such as Gorenaire where the push can be predicted. Then after each cast, adjust your position in accordance with the push rate, prior to casting your next nuke.

Only had belly casting issues with ct when people aren't in position or when that class r guild was killing a mob and our tank got ping pong summoned. Twas the best.

[Man0warr]

Leveling a wizard solo is a chore, but it and mage are the easiest to PL via bard - I was getting 2ish levels per pull in OT through the 30s.

[Rararboker]

Wizard is fun but specialized. I chose it because of its AFK time. I'm usually playing while working/doing schoolwork or just doing other stuff on the computer. Works with my schedule big time.

Besides, ports are really handy. I feel like most people downplay how handy it is. I can, in the time span of 10 minutes, check 5 different named spawns in 4 different zones on 4 continents. Great for making a steady flow of plat. Might not be as much volume or speed as a chanter/cleric/shaman/rogue hitting up Sebilis or HS but it pays for my peridots and opals.

[Uuruk]

Agreed on number 3. Leveling a wizard is pure torture. Wizards are the class you power level after you already have other 60s. I can bang out a wiz 1 to 60 in a week or so with casual chardoking 45 plus.

Not classic.

[Tuljin]

Wizard is as fun as you make it out to be. If you are a total beginner at EQ you won't be able to play it to full potential. You also cannot post up LFG - you have to make your own friends and groups. I never have sat and posted up LFG on Wiz, yet have spent more time in dungeons than most.

Wizard is actually quite powerful while leveling and you don't have to quad the entire time, which is very painful. Solist's Icy Wand is nice if you can get your hands on one, and at level 29 when you can snare, stun, and evac you become a huge help in 30s and 40s dungeons where casters and running mobs quickly become a nightmare. The Thunder Strike line of interrupt spells is also great the entire time - not only is it powerful, but it also knocks out caster spells - which seem to give people a harder time in their 30s than they do in their 50s. Some of these spells have knockback - be careful not to push the mobs off the edge at the Castle Entrance of Mistmoore into the pit below :P

The Flux Staff is an incredible insta-clicky that is quite powerful. Sadly, with the Chardok AOE phenomenon, there are Wizards who hit 60 who don't even complete the quest :( There are also 60 Wizards who never gear or use the great Kunark drop spells such as Draught of Jiva the level 55 interrupt nuke.

A Wizard without epic rune can pull the planes of Hate and Fear just fine, and in fact just as effectively as classes that can FD. Flux Staff is also very helpful in assisting FD pulls/tags if necessary. A high-level Wizard can also agro, stun, and Fetter CC Planar mobs perfectly fine, providing lots of help for the caster classes who are mezzing/healing/dealing with charmed pets. At the same time, on a small raid of 12 or less where mob push isn't reliable, the Wizard is instrumental in keeping mobs from gating, either with spell interrupts or DPS (Sunstrike on a gating Spite Golem in particular)

Additionally, a Wizard can safely pull a Hole dungeon crawl all the way from the drop off to the undead tower. A Hole dungeon crawl moves the XP bar nicely and results in some nice drops, however nobody is going to invite you to do it. You have to get the crew together and make it happen. People will say "oh well x class can do this better, y class can do this or that" but the issue is - nobody goes to the Hole because you need a port to get there, and its dangerous to wipe deep inside. If it weren't for you the group wouldn't happen at all, and if you're good you will be an important part of keeping everybody alive and keeping the bar moving along nicely. Wizard is also great in Seb where nearly every single mob is a caster, and also nice in HS, being good at pulls/tagging and providing Fetter CC somewhere where the majority of the mobs are melee.

My Wizard is never AFK in group because if you are reacting to the environment and mob behavior you quickly realize that there's way more you can do than just sit around and wait for enough mana for the next nuke. My Wizard keeps charm classes alive by being on the ball with stunning charm breaks, keeps the flow moving by taking initiative to keep the chain pull going while the melees are beating on a nearly dead snared mob (the Wizard also eats caster spells instead of the tank on the way to camp, but this is mitigated by stuns and resist gear), and he also saves the group a ton of mana by knocking out virtually all of the nasty spells that get cast - which in turn creates a situation where Superior Heal is completely adequate to keep the group going. PS when's the last time you saw a Cleric cast a stun on a broken pet charm???

The issue is is that everybody assumes everybody is going to play any class to the best of the class's ability. Yes there are other classes that can mitigate caster threat, but do they? No. Can a random half-AFK cleric who only casts CH (and doesn't do any quick heals, doesn't cast a single root, doesn't cast a single stun on a pet break) let the tank die, causing a wipe a 30 minute-plus stop in XP bar movement? Yes. Does this happen more often than not? Yes. Does this often result in the breakup of a group which results in even more time not moving the XP bar? Yes. Is this lack of bar movement worse than moving the bar with someone in the group that doesn't have the same damage output as a Rogue? Yes. Do I need to continue? No.

Wizard is the only class where people assume it is going to be played as BADLY as possible, for which I do not blame anybody. What can you expect from someone who rolled a class with the expressed intent of taking advantage of AFK time.

I have lots of fun on Wizard, mainly because I make it fun. I managed to get to 60 with the majority of bar movement from dungeons, and made lots of great friends and have spent a lot of time deep in every dungeon in Norrath, getting lots of nice gear on the way. The people I play with don't complain about playing with me because I know whats going on, pull my own weight, and contribute very nicely. Good contributions from a Wizard make lots of fun/odd class combinations possible and effective.

Is a Wizard going to be fun if you post up LFG all the time and nobody invites you and you get harassed the whole because you're AFK all the time and do nothing besides nuke? No.

You didn't make a mistake rolling Wizard, just expect to have a tough time moving the XP bar if you don't take initiative, and also expect to take a lot of shit from everybody else along the way. Thick skin isn't a bad thing to have when you're dealing with a bunch of neckbeards, anyways :P

[Velerin]

Wizard was my main on live and was good times, fun for maximizing dps on raid bosses, etc. But in this era in a typical grind group of tank and spank, you are a burden and any other class will probably outdps you over time as well as do other things/buff.
I haven't had anyone confirm here but concussion is actually a great spell. On live, since the way the code worked on spells ( a resisted spell = same agro as a hit spell) a resisted concussion still lowered agro. I was usually always top dps on raid mobs as my wizard (nuke, clicky, nuke, clicky, concussion, etc etc.

On that note if anyone with a wiz could test this it would be awesome to find out for sure:

Need 1 mob with high MR but doesn't hit too crazy hard. Have tank pull it (but not do anything else) so he has agro. Cast flux staff slowly just until you pull agro. Then cast resisted concussion and if mob turns back to tank it does work on resist.

Any ideas on what mob will work for this? Black Dire? anything else that will resist but doesn't hit hard?

[iruinedyourday]

ITT people who play wizards, write posts worthy of RP tomes for actual wizards. :D

[Faiding]

Concussion does work when resisted.

[Tuljin]

Oh yeah concussion - that's another one that the Chardok AOE crew misses out on :-( works when resisted

[Velerin]

Glad to hear it does on p99 since it was key on live. Surprised how many p99 wizzies don't even have the spell let alone know it works when resisted.

[Estu]

Concussion does work when resisted.

Oh yeah concussion - that's another one that the Chardok AOE crew misses out on :-( works when resisted

Do you guys have evidence for this? I've heard that it doesn't work when resisted. It's easy to confuse these two situations: 1) you not causing additional aggro by wasting a few seconds casting Concussion and having it resisted, so when you nuke afterwards and don't pull aggro it seems like Concussion worked, and 2) Concussion actually working on a resist. Has anyone tested it on this server as mentioned above?

[Daldaen]

Do you guys have evidence for this? I've heard that it doesn't work when resisted. It's easy to confuse these two situations: 1) you not causing additional aggro by wasting a few seconds casting Concussion and having it resisted, so when you nuke afterwards and don't pull aggro it seems like Concussion worked, and 2) Concussion actually working on a resist. Has anyone tested it on this server as mentioned above?

Concussion *should work* on a resist.

There are classic posts about this that I've quoted before. I've been too lazy to get my Naggy/Vox wizard concussion though. Involves transferring puppet strings and finding the human skeleton up in KC... Very tedious.

Otherwise I would test this and bug report if not working correctly.

But the Aggro component of every spell is fixed. Whether your Sunstrike does 1 damage, full damage or resists it is the same amount of net Hate points. Same is true of every other single target spell. Even those that reduce aggro. Whether it lands or resists concussion should be the same -X hate every cast.

[sox7d]

see title. I was attracted to their high burst damage but after browsing the forum it seems people think pretty lowly of wizards. Could some of the more experienced players offer some clarification on this? Should I reroll? I'm fine with being useless for my low and middle levels, but I'd at least like to be useful at the higher end/raid type stuff. Seems like the general consensus here is that even when wizards are useful, someone else can do it better.

Wizard was my first character on this server four years ago. Here's my take.

You are not cut out for grouping. I've made spreadsheets and shit. The math just isn't there. Your sustained damage is way more garbage than "nuking down in emergancies" and stuns will benefit. At level 60, your most mana efficient nuke is ~3.6 damage per mana. Druids and Magicians get ~3.2 damage per mana. It's a fucking joke. I am the most fervent, mouth-frothing voice in favor of inviting hybrids and anyone LFG in the "play the class you want" thread, and I still don't invite wizards.

Be a burden to society by grouping until you can quad around ~30, take up a hobby like guitar or art or some shit and prepare to get good at it, because a quad every 10 minutes is the best way to go. Pro-tip: Wood elf guards at 52 are amazing quad exp, never camped and drop 11pp each. Don't be a pussy, do that camp.

Do that till 56 then hit Chardok AE till 60 where you can start selling proxys and making bank. As far as raiding, you do have the highest raid DPS, especially during Velious, so enjoy that.

[Ella`Ella]

[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!

not me, but yeah wizards p gud much fun

3k Hp on this wiz and not a single heal in between? Pwn!

[Tuljin]

Yep...and what the hell does a Wizard need HP for anyways?

[Arclyte]

It's not classic, but I feel like wizards should be getting crits at lvl 12 like they did when luclin first came out

[Evia]

It's not classic, but I feel like wizards should be getting crits at lvl 12 like they did when luclin first came out


I am big on everything staying as classic as possible. However, I have to agree with you on this one.

[Daldaen]

Wizards, Rangers and Druids were all fixed with their raid and group roles come PoP with AAs.

PoP was the pinnacle of EQ. Hope to see this server make it there one day. It was the shit.

[Estu]

Wizards, Rangers and Druids were all fixed with their raid and group roles come PoP with AAs.

PoP was the pinnacle of EQ. Hope to see this server make it there one day. It was the shit.

PoP killed the big world and community feeling with those dumb PoK books and the dumb PoK zone having everything you needed in one place.

[Daldaen]

PoP killed the big world and community feeling with those dumb PoK books and the dumb PoK zone having everything you needed in one place.

Sounds a lot like EC. Except everyone expects my druid or wizard to port them wherever they need to go.

Planes were big and everything being in one place was nice, gave people somewhere to congregate, sell, skill up TSes, train, buy new spells and quest. PoK's community was fantastic. Great staging ground for any level of grouping as well.

[iruinedyourday]

Sounds a lot like EC. Except everyone expects my druid or wizard to port them wherever they need to go.

Planes were big and everything being in one place was nice, gave people somewhere to congregate, sell, skill up TSes, train, buy new spells and quest. PoK's community was fantastic. Great staging ground for any level of grouping as well.

Yeah but a different game altogether than classic Eq

[Hitpoint]

Hmm... let's see.
1) Good solo ability. That maybe true at higher levels, earlier soloing sucks.
2) Ports. Right, you have a point.
3) Good in groups. What game are you playing? Wizard is probably the least wanted class in any group.
4) Great on raids. Well... yes, but far from the best.

Point 3 is the biggest problem of the class, not one of its assets.

I guess by "good" I mean middle of the road in groups. It's has to be easier getting a group on a wiz than on a necro/dru/pal/ranger. I imagine they would be very strong in ench + bard groups. Plus there's chardok aoe to consider...

I'd argue that they are actually the best dps class on raids in Kunark. Rogues have certain advantages, but the hardest mobs in the game right now are Gorenaire and Hoshkar, both of which have slow aoes. A proper raid isn't likely to wipe on most other mobs. The debuffs can be cured rather easily, but I'd still prefer wizards over any other dps class. I think wizards beat rogues dps-wise on 32k mobs anyway.

Enchanters and Shamans have 3 of the 4.
Unless by "great on raids" means they stack well with others of their class.

Yea, I do mean that. I mean, you can prebuff with both of those classes and just play another toon for the actual fight. You can never have too many wizards.

[sox7d]

PoP killed the big world and community feeling with those dumb PoK books and the dumb PoK zone having everything you needed in one place.

Thanks, every single orc hill group I've been in on this server. What's your opinion on WoW?

[Clark]

[Fri Feb 21 18:22:07 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:15 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:23 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:31 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 148 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:33 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 345 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:38 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 620 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:39 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 170 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:40 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 370 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon hits YOU for 195 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] You are stunned!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:41 2014] Trakanon bashes YOU for 155 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] Trakanon was hit by non-melee for 825 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:48 2014] You have slain Trakanon!
[Fri Feb 21 18:22:49 2014] You gain party experience!!

not me, but yeah wizards p gud much fun

uber

[Decad]

Wizard was my main on live and was good times, fun for maximizing dps on raid bosses, etc. But in this era in a typical grind group of tank and spank, you are a burden and any other class will probably outdps you over time as well as do other things/buff.
I haven't had anyone confirm here but concussion is actually a great spell. On live, since the way the code worked on spells ( a resisted spell = same agro as a hit spell) a resisted concussion still lowered agro. I was usually always top dps on raid mobs as my wizard (nuke, clicky, nuke, clicky, concussion, etc etc.

On that note if anyone with a wiz could test this it would be awesome to find out for sure:

Need 1 mob with high MR but doesn't hit too crazy hard. Have tank pull it (but not do anything else) so he has agro. Cast flux staff slowly just until you pull agro. Then cast resisted concussion and if mob turns back to tank it does work on resist.

Any ideas on what mob will work for this? Black Dire? anything else that will resist but doesn't hit hard?

It works. I tested this on live.

[Decad]

see title. I was attracted to their high burst damage but after browsing the forum it seems people think pretty lowly of wizards. Could some of the more experienced players offer some clarification on this? Should I reroll? I'm fine with being useless for my low and middle levels, but I'd at least like to be useful at the higher end/raid type stuff. Seems like the general consensus here is that even when wizards are useful, someone else can do it better.

A wizard is a painful class to play from 1-59. Make friends, lots of friends so they can get you in groups which minimize the pain very significantly.

A wizard's life start at 60 in a raiding guild. You will be wanted/welcomed with open arms.

The key thing to playing a wizard in a raid is doing insane amounts of damage yet do not overtaunt. If this is your first time playing EQ, this can only be achieved if you properly play your class and learn your spells. Veteran EQ wizards from live probably experienced all this hard work previously so they can afford to take the easy route here.

As for other roles where some wizards like to do (eg pulling in a raid) are all additional dimensions to the class but the above still IS the most important aspect of a wizard

All the above is written in assumption you learn and play your class.

[Decad]

Do you guys have evidence for this? I've heard that it doesn't work when resisted. It's easy to confuse these two situations: 1) you not causing additional aggro by wasting a few seconds casting Concussion and having it resisted, so when you nuke afterwards and don't pull aggro it seems like Concussion worked, and 2) Concussion actually working on a resist. Has anyone tested it on this server as mentioned above?

Works. Try it on emperor chottal. As for trying on raid mobs it can be quite "difficult" currently as most raid mobs fall very fast before you can pull off the test. Velious will bring you the mobs to test as they have alot more HP.

[Estu]

Works. Try it on emperor chottal. As for trying on raid mobs it can be quite "difficult" currently as most raid mobs fall very fast before you can pull off the test. Velious will bring you the mobs to test as they have alot more HP.

Update: I just tested Concussion with a cliff golem. I pulled it with staff of temperate flux, had a buddy shoot it with an arrow so it was still chasing me but he had some aggro. I cast Concussion. Golem resisted but went after buddy anyway. So I guess it does work on resists! Learn something new every day.

[Servellious]

Wizards are amazing if you want to do end game raid content. I mean amazing I will be leveling one mysef

[iruinedyourday]

60 shaman wizard warrior, is gonna be a nice lookn sig!

[Pyrion]

I guess by "good" I mean middle of the road in groups. It's has to be easier getting a group on a wiz than on a necro/dru/pal/ranger. I imagine they would be very strong in ench + bard groups. Plus there's chardok aoe to consider...


If a wizard in a group is preferable to necro or ranger is debatable. Paladin is a tank and therefore one of the core classes of any group. Why anybody would prefer a wizard to a druid in a group is beyond me. Wizard has maybe 10% more DD DPS while druid makes up for it giving the tank a damage shield. Druid has ports as well, can heal, sow, buff, snare (with much less mana than a wiz)... Î agree that druid is not one of the most wanted in a group, but he outshines a wizard by a mile.

[webrunner5]

I have a mid level Wizard but they are a one trick Pony. And I thought a Mage was sort of boring other than having to gate a hell of a lot. But the porting is nice to be able to do. And if you HAVE to be afk a lot like with kids I can think of worse classes to play. And if you need to go to Sky well guess what. "Where is a Wizard when you need it". :eek:

[Tuljin]

Wizard can out DPS a raid on a 32k Hp boss really with 30+ toons on a raid. This is still tricky because its easier to agro the mob the more people on the raid. Also, you wont have a ton of time to drop enough Concussions to knock agro down enough for a hard burn, though peppering them in is nice. With a lot of toons on a mob, if you cast Lure of Ice too soon, you will definitely get agro, so you have to wait until around 70% to start. Its definitely a balancing act.

On small raids (12-18) with the DPS spread over fewer toons its actually easier to dump your whole mana bar. The longer a Rogue is on a mob you really see how much damage they deal. You still have to wait a bit to cast, but you can burn without worrying about agro.

As far as Wiz vs Druid/Nec/Mage in a group is concerned, lets not kid ourselves. Nobody on this server starts a group without a Cleric (which is annoying and ridiculous, btw) at which point the Druid is shooed away. If a Druid is in a group, he is rarely casting nukes, and most Druids I've seen have very little dungeon time and are terrible at snaring. Nec is a great group member, but nobody has group time on them either. Mage is also an excellent group mate (coth pulls and good pet DPS ftw) but again, considered a pariah.

My point is very few people have any clue how effective each one of these classes are in a dungeon. The majority of the P99 hivemind has never even grouped with one of these classes for extended periods, let alone someone truly "good" at them. Name the last time you grouped with a Mage. Now name the last time you grouped with a "good" mage. Its all hot air.

I have never even seen a Wizard besides myself cast a stun - period. Offensively, defensively, to save a group member who got agro, to stop a runner, etc, nothing. Wizards I've seen don't even understand snare mechanics. By and large, stun, fetter, and snare are far more useful in dangerous places than the proven "bad" dps of a wizard. I have not seen a single wizard who times Draught of Jiva (Thunder Strike line) spell casts to knock out spells. Instead, they will drop Rend instead of Draught of Fire (for some reason) and root runners (while running) instead of snaring them ahead of time. There's actually a LOT a Wizard can do in a group, just nobody has ever seen it.

Same with the rest of these bastard classes - generally nobody has a clue about them. Nobody has played with them when played by a skilled player, yet run their mouths. All of these classes are good in groups when played well. I would take a great Druid for a healer over a Cleric who sits on his ass and does nothing besides cast CH (and even does a shitty job at that) any day of the week.

[jcr4990]

Wizard can out DPS a raid on a 32k Hp boss really with 30+ toons on a raid. This is still tricky because its easier to agro the mob the more people on the raid. Also, you wont have a ton of time to drop enough Concussions to knock agro down enough for a hard burn, though peppering them in is nice. With a lot of toons on a mob, if you cast Lure of Ice too soon, you will definitely get agro, so you have to wait until around 70% to start. Its definitely a balancing act.

On small raids (12-18) with the DPS spread over fewer toons its actually easier to dump your whole mana bar. The longer a Rogue is on a mob you really see how much damage they deal. You still have to wait a bit to cast, but you can burn without worrying about agro.

As far as Wiz vs Druid/Nec/Mage in a group is concerned, lets not kid ourselves. Nobody on this server starts a group without a Cleric (which is annoying and ridiculous, btw) at which point the Druid is shooed away. If a Druid is in a group, he is rarely casting nukes, and most Druids I've seen have very little dungeon time and are terrible at snaring. Nec is a great group member, but nobody has group time on them either. Mage is also an excellent group mate (coth pulls and good pet DPS ftw) but again, considered a pariah.

My point is very few people have any clue how effective each one of these classes are in a dungeon. The majority of the P99 hivemind has never even grouped with one of these classes for extended periods, let alone someone truly "good" at them. Name the last time you grouped with a Mage. Now name the last time you grouped with a "good" mage. Its all hot air.

I have never even seen a Wizard besides myself cast a stun - period. Offensively, defensively, to save a group member who got agro, to stop a runner, etc, nothing. Wizards I've seen don't even understand snare mechanics. By and large, stun, fetter, and snare are far more useful in dangerous places than the proven "bad" dps of a wizard. I have not seen a single wizard who times Draught of Jiva (Thunder Strike line) spell casts to knock out spells. Instead, they will drop Rend instead of Draught of Fire (for some reason) and root runners (while running) instead of snaring them ahead of time. There's actually a LOT a Wizard can do in a group, just nobody has ever seen it.

Same with the rest of these bastard classes - generally nobody has a clue about them. Nobody has played with them when played by a skilled player, yet run their mouths. All of these classes are good in groups when played well. I would take a great Druid for a healer over a Cleric who sits on his ass and does nothing besides cast CH (and even does a shitty job at that) any day of the week.Who needs a Cleric when you have Torpor shamans :P I've been able to solo heal effortlessly in most hs/seb groups so far and I run out of mana less than any cleric unless they have bp.

Unless we're talking about low lvl groups. Thats a different story.

[Nirgon]

No

I beat rogues on parses and we steal xp on raids with wizard/bard groups np

Very good class

Just pay attention to your tank doing casting animations (he's proccin') on raid mobs... that's a governor for me on how hard to push da button

With SK tank spamming agro on fights that don't need defensive you can basically go completely ape shit

[Phased]

I remember grouping with wizards, druids, necros, even rangers(wow!) a decent amount on live. Every group needed a healer, slower, and a snarer.

If you went into Sebilis if you didn't have someone to snare you were gonna have a bad time. On here, mobs seem to crawl away when they're ridiculously low making snare a waste of mana.

[sox7d]

If a wizard in a group is preferable to necro or ranger is debatable. Paladin is a tank and therefore one of the core classes of any group. Why anybody would prefer a wizard to a druid in a group is beyond me. Wizard has maybe 10% more DD DPS while druid makes up for it giving the tank a damage shield. Druid has ports as well, can heal, sow, buff, snare (with much less mana than a wiz)... Î agree that druid is not one of the most wanted in a group, but he outshines a wizard by a mile.

Seriously. It comes down to math.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the wizard, lets say they're using their most mana efficient DD, Sunstrike.

1615 dmg, 450 mana

This translates to ~3.6 damage per mana.

I believe my 60 wizard gained 20 mana per 6 second tick while medding which translates to 3.33 mana per second.

3.33 * 3.6 = 12 damage per second sustained.

With clarity II, that comes out to 18.6 damage per second sustained.

With harvest giving 326 mana every 10.16 minutes (Casting time), that adds
10.16 * 60 / 326 which is an extra 1.867 mana per second or 6.731 damage per second. This brings us to 23.33 damage per second sustained

Throwing epic into the picture that's an extra 3 mana per tick or .5 mana per second


Let's say there's 24 seconds between each pull. That leaves the battle with very roughly (24 / 6) * (20 + 11 + 1.867 + 3) * 3.6 = 516.48 damage per pull at level 60 with C2 and epic.



TL;DR If your group sucks and can barely get any pulls, an epic'd wizard with C2 will almost be as good as a typical melee assuming no resists. And no, it is NOT worth the "But you can nuke down adds in an emergency!" logic.

[sox7d]

On the other hand, I've probably done more damage in a few hours of chardok than a rogue has done in his entire life, so at least there's that.

[Nirgon]

I can evac a group if there's a train, port around the world obviously, make other see invis/invisible

I blow up raid mobs, I make lots of pulls in sky possible (like keeper of souls PH to start raid)

I can quad sea furies on my private island on red at 3:1 blue value

We need the classic stamina system and things will be much more balanced between caster and melee :)





http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/wizards/ (caution: may require a highschool level of education)

^ read dat... look at what wizard sare doing on the short fights in game atm (fix unresistable spells like lures pls god, I get partials in sky sometimes since whatever patch)

[sox7d]

I can evac a group if there's a train, port around the world obviously, make other see invis/invisible

I blow up raid mobs, I make lots of pulls in sky possible (like keeper of souls PH to start raid)

I can quad sea furies on my private island on red at 3:1 blue value

We need the classic stamina system and things will be much more balanced between caster and melee :)

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/wizards/

^ read dat


you just described a druid

[Nirgon]

Yeah? They can use their ports for sky pulls and destroy raid mobs huh? Show me.

[Daldaen]

Yeah? They can use their ports for sky pulls and destroy raid mobs huh? Show me.

I once landed a DoT and 3 full Wildfires on Gorenaire and healed some people.

It was sweet.

Druids can do some pretty baller pulls too. I pulled Ghost of Kindle from undead fort down to Yael area single once. Total boss mode.