Spell Casting and Ducking/Jumping

[Rogean]

This was how it worked in classic, as I and many others remember, that ducking during a spell cast did not immedietely interrupt the spell. It would only interrupt if you were in the duck stance when the spell finished.

Also proven by a quote I was given:

------------------------------
June 27, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

- Spell and Item Interruption: Ducking will now interrupt a spell
instantly. You will no longer be able to sit while using items or
casting spells. This will not affect bard songs, which will still work
as they always have, but will affect all items, even those with song-
like effects.

I'm hearing that jumping is still suppose to interrupt instantly? Can people confirm/deny this? If so I can consider making that change.

[Tanzoi]

Can jump about fine without interrupting the cast, it does fail to cast if you time the jump to finish mid-air though.
At least now you can med while CHing if mouse-playing, just need to stand up in the last second. ;p

[Lich]

/ramble on
I love this server. I just wish we didn't have to go overboard and cut our wrists. I like the fact that the server has classic content and will stop at Velious. I just think some things like game play / UI enhancements should be more like live.
Examples:
I would like duck to interrupt casting.
I would like pet window to show buffs.
I would like Shrink to work anywhere. (Seriously.. why not other than its not classic)
I would like pets to zone. (Yeah I am a Shaman and I hate zoning into combat without my pet)
I would like raid tools.
I would like ......

I know I want a lot and you are not likely to give it. Just saying I would like it.
I know I could create my own server but I don't have the programming knowledge.
/ramble off

Sorry in advance. Please don't hate me.

[zianlo1]

/ramble on
I love this server. I just wish we didn't have to go overboard and cut our wrists. I like the fact that the server has classic content and will stop at Velious. I just think some things like game play / UI enhancements should be more like live.
Examples:
I would like duck to interrupt casting.
I would like pet window to show buffs.
I would like Shrink to work anywhere. (Seriously.. why not other than its not classic)
I would like pets to zone. (Yeah I am a Shaman and I hate zoning into combat without my pet)
I would like raid tools.
I would like ......

I know I want a lot and you are not likely to give it. Just saying I would like it.
I know I could create my own server but I don't have the programming knowledge.
/ramble off

Sorry in advance. Please don't hate me.

What this guy says is true. There are alot of improvements that could be made, like the pet zoning and showing buffs thing. As a necro, I hate getting a really good pet then an invite to somewhere in another zone. The bone chip cost is fine, but its annoying to have to recast my pet 5 times to get back to the good one =P

[Noselacri]

Just use shift+s to stop casting.

[Lazortag]

What this guy says is true. There are alot of improvements that could be made, like the pet zoning and showing buffs thing. As a necro, I hate getting a really good pet then an invite to somewhere in another zone. The bone chip cost is fine, but its annoying to have to recast my pet 5 times to get back to the good one =P

"But it's classic". Some people actually like it that way. It's challenging and feels more rewarding when you get a pet that's even or yellow to you.

I am a 99.9% classic purist. I think it's the best standard to accomodate everyone with. Any other standard is just silly and inconsistent. Sure not everything in classic was fun or even made sense, but at least adhering to that standard is consistent.

[Virtuosos]

tell ya one thing that makes no sense not to have, guild management tool.....


no advantage in game, takes nothing away from it, just makes it easier to kick the riftraft out

[oldhead]

/ramble on
I love this server. I just wish we didn't have to go overboard and cut our wrists. I like the fact that the server has classic content and will stop at Velious. I just think some things like game play / UI enhancements should be more like live.
Examples:
I would like duck to interrupt casting.
I would like pet window to show buffs.
I would like Shrink to work anywhere. (Seriously.. why not other than its not classic)
I would like pets to zone. (Yeah I am a Shaman and I hate zoning into combat without my pet)
I would like raid tools.
I would like ......

I know I want a lot and you are not likely to give it. Just saying I would like it.
I know I could create my own server but I don't have the programming knowledge.
/ramble off

Sorry in advance. Please don't hate me.

I agree 100%.. I like classic but I dont like it 100%. I believe there is room for improvement without going retarded like SoE did.

"But it's classic". Some people actually like it that way.
I think it's the best standard to accommodate everyone with. Any other standard is just silly and inconsistent. Sure not everything in classic was fun or even made sense, but at least adhering to that standard is consistent.

On the other hand I agree with this. There must be a standard. people come here for classic. Where is line drawn?

Me... I would draw the line at the release of the moon kitties. Anything before December 4, 2001 should be considered classic for this server. As such the duck thing shouldn't have been taken out as it lays within the classic era that this server aspires to.

That's where I would draw the line. But this aint my server. :D

[Uthgaard]

This is the way we make the burgers here, if you don't like them, there are other places down the strip that make burgers different ways. We are not the Burger King of emulators.

Aeolwind summed it up pretty well in that post. This is Project 1999, not Project Burger King. Nobody's making you play on a classic server.

[Lich]

Aeolwind summed it up pretty well in that post. This is Project 1999, not Project Burger King. Nobody's making you play on a classic server.


That reminds me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQyib5ZQZY).

[Lich]

I would just like to add that I know this is a work in progress and that things will get changed. I just think it is a little late for a lot of these recent changes. Many features that I used and enjoyed from the start of P99 are getting removed now after such a long time. I had no idea when I first started that some of these features would get removed. You could call it bait and switch. You got me hooked at the start and now I am getting a bad taste in my mouth. I still like the project but it is becoming less desirable to me.

It is not my intent to upset anyone. This is not my server and I know that. I respect the admin and the people who donate their time and money to the project. I just don't want P99 to change so much that it is no longer fun for me. I want everyone to enjoy p99 including me.

/salute

[Wizerud]

I don't think you know what bait and switch means if you think it could possibly apply in some way to this server.

[Harrison]

Aeolwind summed it up pretty well in that post. This is Project 1999, not Project Burger King. Nobody's making you play on a classic server.

Which is fine, but the classic tidbits are arbitrarily chosen. They aren't universal.

That is what bugs people.

[nilbog]

Which is fine, but the classic tidbits are arbitrarily chosen. They aren't universal.

That is what bugs people.

When a fix presents itself, the coders make it. This is an example of a major gameplay feature that persisted through the majority of the classic era of Everquest. I'd say that's more than a tidbit.

Provide us with universal finished code submissions, and if we don't implement them, or do them in the wrong order, then you can claim they are arbitrarily chosen.

The server would be a far different place if we had a giant list of on/off levers, and everything was complete.

[Tork]

The guild management thing made me think of how NOT having it was fun:

TV

Like most players coming from other guilds, those players would have alts - alts which they never guild removed from their old guilds. We'd get a kick out of having someone logged into and relaying what might be happening while we waited for respawn, buffed, &c. - we'd call it TV. I know it's an ahole thing, but listening to lower-mid tier guilds wipe to Vindi, Djkjasldkfjalkajsdlljaf, &c. was almost endlessly amusing.

Of course, this worked against us sometimes, and I recall a time when 2 officers were chasing down this druid who we'd kicked out, but could never catch up with to actually boot - he'd port and run. It was pretty funny, and I applauded the chase - he lasted many weeks.

[Harrison]

When a fix presents itself, the coders make it. This is an example of a major gameplay feature that persisted through the majority of the classic era of Everquest. I'd say that's more than a tidbit.

Provide us with universal finished code submissions, and if we don't implement them, or do them in the wrong order, then you can claim they are arbitrarily chosen.

The server would be a far different place if we had a giant list of on/off levers, and everything was complete.

Trust me, I understand this entirely.

My point is more along the lines of things like rogues not being able to pickpocket magical items off the bat. It's classic, we ALL know that, but it was chosen not to be put in.

I love playing here like anyone else, but when a classic fix is 100% available and chosen not to be put in, and others are...it does start to fit the "pick and choose classic" bill rather than "We're making it as close as possible within our technical restraints"

[Harrison]

The guild management thing made me think of how NOT having it was fun:

TV

Like most players coming from other guilds, those players would have alts - alts which they never guild removed from their old guilds. We'd get a kick out of having someone logged into and relaying what might be happening while we waited for respawn, buffed, &c. - we'd call it TV. I know it's an ahole thing, but listening to lower-mid tier guilds wipe to Vindi, Djkjasldkfjalkajsdlljaf, &c. was almost endlessly amusing.

Of course, this worked against us sometimes, and I recall a time when 2 officers were chasing down this druid who we'd kicked out, but could never catch up with to actually boot - he'd port and run. It was pretty funny, and I applauded the chase - he lasted many weeks.

Lol holy shit it's Tork, ooooooldschool

[Messianic]

Which is fine, but the classic tidbits are arbitrarily chosen. They aren't universal.

That is what bugs people.

This is absolutely unavoidable. I don't see how one could re-create, 100%, the classic experience from the original EQ without disaster.

Why? Because having absolute knowledge of the exact timeline of the server (if reproduced 100%) would demolish gameplay.

Why? Look at Rubicite - Manastones - Thex Daggers - etc. Because people *knew* that they would be removed (or knew that certain imbalances existed in classic), they were one of the first things to get the garbage farmed out of them (or utilize those imbalances to the fullest). If people *know* (as they would, since this is a piece of the past cut out and pasted into the future) where all the bugs/glitches/exploits and places that require fixes to avoid absurdities are, everyone will use every single one of those exploits to the fullest because there isn't a knowledge problem like there was in the original EQ.

You can't re-create the lack of knowledge, newness, and human component of classic eq by virtue of it being in the past. Therefore, certain modifications have to be made to accommodate, at least, that difference.

Judgment calls have to be made. ANY ATTEMPT TO REPRODUCE A CLASSIC SERVER CANNOT BE 100%, AND THEREFORE HAS JUDGMENT CALLS. Any classic server, therefore, has certain arbitrary decisions made with regards to content or game mechanics.

Even if you could clear every individual's memory of the events/exploits of original EQ - quite honestly, i can't think of a single instance of a collection of human beings who are able to be absolutely consistent with a set of written or absolutely defined criteria. It just doesn't happen.

To expect in a freaking video game what thousands of years of human history have been unable to produce is one of the stupidest expectations i've ever seen. It's like those fanboys who go to cons and start pointing out scientific errors to George Lucas or point out some obscure line in the Silmarillion to Peter Jackson. Get over it. It's not as big a deal as you think.

[guineapig]

Why? Because having absolute knowledge of the exact timeline of the server (if reproduced 100%) would demolish gameplay.

This is true. The duck/jump spell cast thing isn't a good example but there are many instances where it it would be complete chaos.

What if a rogue could pickpocket magical dragon loot off of Naggy and Vox. Can you imagine how much crying there would be on the server for leaving that in? Even if only for however long it lasted back in 1999?

I too have been burned by "fixes" that weren't live when I started on the server back in October, but I got used to it and moved on. Some fixes nerf my characters while others benefit them.

[Knightmare]

And so on to the original question...

I actually cannot say I have definitive proof, but I do remember that around the time of Kunark the change was made to cause ducking (at least) to immediately interrupt casting. I started my Iksar Necro and was getting used to it on him. Which would mean that the duck/cast-stop thing technically should not have been in-game.

However since it was about when Kunark came out that it was added, and Kunark is about upon us here, I must ask, why bother about it now just to put it back in a month or so?

It's senseless to remove a basic function we're all very used to only to put it back a short time later. Especially when it's something so minor that it's clearly done just to be anal lol.

[nilbog]

However since it was about when Kunark came out that it was added, and Kunark is about upon us here, I must ask, why bother about it now just to put it back in a month or so?

Ducking was added as a means to interrupt spells in the July 2001 patch. That is towards the end of Velious.

[Virtuosos]

ducking NOT interupting spells confuses me seeing as how every time i am trying to turn my homework into frogs and i duck, it immediately stops me from doing it



real life should thus follow EQ



id love to see you cast a spell while ducking and it NOT cancel it immediately!

[Malrubius]

I'm hearing that jumping is still suppose to interrupt instantly? Can people confirm/deny this? If so I can consider making that change.

Yes, I was always able to jump to instantly interrupt. The only time it did not work was when I was levitated (in which case it would never work for obvious reasons - you can't jump when levitated).

[Knightmare]

Ducking was added as a means to interrupt spells in the July 2001 patch. That is towards the end of Velious.

Wow. Okay, I didn't realize I started playing that long before Velious :)

I'd still wonder if it's worth taking out such a simple mechanic after about a year of having it, just to put it in next year.

Or do you think it would stay out permanently?

[nilbog]

Wow. Okay, I didn't realize I started playing that long before Velious :)

I'd still wonder if it's worth taking out such a simple mechanic after about a year of having it, just to put it in next year.

Or do you think it would stay out permanently?

I think its important to note that classic Kunark existed on every eq live server with that not being an option. Directly or indirectly, that's the way classic played out. Every spell that was cast.. from 1999-2001.

As far as the worth of removing it a year after it being present, the same could be said for class experience penalties. They will be removed on schedule.

FD not breaking charm, while a functioning classic mechanic, should exist and then be removed. No one is complaining about that one though. :)

[Knightmare]

As far as the worth of removing it a year after it being present, the same could be said for class experience penalties. They will be removed on schedule.

I might be confused but from the way I'm reading it all (again I could have it wrong), it sounds like the duck-stop cast has been in for about a year, needs to be taken out for about a year, and then later put right back in.

Is that right?

Kinda sounds confusing, and potentially going into the OCd department lol, just imho that is :)

I'd still swear I was doing it on my nub iksar necro but apparently not.

[nilbog]

I might be confused but from the way I'm reading it all (again I could have it wrong), it sounds like the duck-stop cast has been in for about a year, needs to be taken out for about a year, and then later put right back in.

Is that right?

Kinda sounds confusing, and potentially going into the OCd department lol, just imho that is :)

I'd say more like.. "Fundamental feature that hasn't existed in prekunark due to lack of development implementation, but needs to exist for the entirety of Kunark, and most of Velious."

The classic changes we implement, that are time-based, have an off/on function created to go with them. Example the FD mechanic, and the class experience penalties.

If we ever get enough people for a secondary classic server, (hypothetical, in the future scenario), we can easily make these changes.

If you're suggesting we should avoid developing classic features, time-based or not, I disagree.

[Sarkov]

The principle of the thing is obvious. No one could sensibly argue otherwise.

I guess the question is, should community reaction to the feature drive your priorities, since you're working with limited time & resources here? Dunno, your call.

No one would be sad if this was a priority negative 50 fix though. Just sayin.

[nilbog]

The principle of the thing is obvious. No one could sensibly argue otherwise.

I guess the question is, should community reaction to the feature drive your priorities, since you're working with limited time & resources here? Dunno, your call.

No one would be sad if this was a priority negative 50 fix though. Just sayin.

It is my belief that a human being VERY RARELY chooses to nerf itself, if ever.

I don't see that anyone would agree with implementing it, but I don't agree that's a reason we shouldn't do it.

It's like we are recreating a historical event, and saying, hey guys no one likes black powder guns, we should use automatics.

Matter of opinion I suppose. I know for a fact there are situations that would have ended poorly due to user-error, that aren't happening because of a safety feature.

[Knightmare]

If you're suggesting we should avoid developing classic features, time-based or not, I disagree.

Oh no, not saying that. By all means develop away! :)

My confusion is this:

Ducking currently stops spell casting in P99 instantly (if memory serves, I'm at work atm). By the original post it looks like Rogean is saying it shouldn't do that, and wants to remove it until we get to that "June 27, 2001 3:00 am" patch date in P99 time.

Which would mean removing a current function because it doesn't belong. Then permanently putting it back later when it should be (late in Velious).

Is that accurate?

Huh this is why I shouldn't post at work. Well, 1 reason anyway :p

[nilbog]

Oh no, not saying that. By all means develop away! :)

My confusion is this:

Ducking currently stops spell casting in P99 instantly (if memory serves, I'm at work atm). By the original post it looks like Rogean is saying it shouldn't do that, and wants to remove it until we get to that "June 27, 2001 3:00 am" patch date in P99 time.

Which would mean removing a current function because it doesn't belong. Then permanently putting it back later when it should be (late in Velious).

Is that accurate?


Yes, that's the only way I see to interpret it.

-Feature doesn't currently exist.
-Feature should exist.
-Feature has code support now, possibly needing tweaks for jump instantly interrupting (Which is correct, also being stunned by melee or spells should instantly interrupt spells)
-Feature should be turned off towards the end of Velious.

[Uthgaard]

Lets build jurassic park. BUT NO VELOCIRAPTORS! They're too OP. Find the paralells.

Back to the actual question posed, I recall there being some relation to the interruption of spells, and the ability to sit through long casting, and effectively perma-med. I recall a thread from the devs that discussed their disinterest in giving players a means to interrupt their casting, but the necessity of preventing the perma-med potential being greater than the "cost" of allowing players to interrupt their spells.

These are simply recollections, and may not be accurate. I state them with the hope that something here will jog someone's memory, and that not only will the discussion get back on track, but that more clues will arise fill in the gaps. I suspect the smoking gun will be found on an archived front-page discussion on a fansite that frequently summarized developer posts from the SOE boards. The tricky part is finding it, on an archive that will actually load.

[nilbog]

Back to the actual question posed, I recall there being some relation to the interruption of spells, and the ability to sit through long casting, and effectively perma-med. I recall a thread from the devs that discussed their disinterest in giving players a means to interrupt their casting, but the necessity of preventing the perma-med potential being greater than the "cost" of allowing players to interrupt their spells.

I believe this applied to spells cast by items, e.g. deepwater helm. You could click the hat, sit down until the bar was almost done casting, then stand back up again and it would finish its cast.

I don't recall that working for spells cast from the bar though.

[guineapig]

I believe this applied to spells cast by items, e.g. deepwater helm. You could click the hat, sit down until the bar was almost done casting, then stand back up again and it would finish its cast.

I don't recall that working for spells cast from the bar though.

So in other words you simply sit to interrupt a spell (or jump) instead of duck? This fix doesn't seem like that big of a deal then. I can live with that.

[nilbog]

So in other words you simply sit to interrupt a spell (or jump) instead of duck? This fix doesn't seem like that big of a deal then. I can live with that.

No, I was saying spells cast by right clicking an item (example the kunark armors), allowed you to sit after clicking.

I don't recall being able to sit while casting a spell from my spellbar.

Jumping should interrupt, as far as I know.

[Ridic]

ducking NOT interupting spells confuses me seeing as how every time i am trying to turn my homework into frogs and i duck, it immediately stops me from doing it



real life should thus follow EQ



id love to see you cast a spell while ducking and it NOT cancel it immediately!

Knee Pads.

[Sarkhan]

So pretty much ducking does not insta-interrupt anymore but that's okay because we can just use jump (use stamina) or sit (possibly get agro?) instead. . . is that correct?
If it is correct then I don't really see why people are complaining. If it is not correct, please correct me (without flaming, thx)

[Striiker]

I also wanted to point out something which I know was voiced by Nilbog in the past. The server is a work in progress. The goal has always been to get it as close to a classic server as possible. We are being allowed to use the server as it continues to evolve (or devolve?) to a classic server. The alternative would have been to leave the server closed for years until the work was as close to done as possible.
So, we all play on this freely provided server knowing that changes will happen. Some we dislike, some we like but they are all towards the same, clearly defined goal. To make the server a classic (as in 1999 era) server.
I don't mean to sound negative but if you don't like being "nerfed" due to adjustments, I'd suggest waiting a year or so until playing. This way (hopefully) most of the growing pains will be over. If you choose to play, there's nothing wrong with vocalizing dismay or disagreement over a change but it really needs to be done in a respectful, non-bitchy way.

[Lagaidh]

I believe this applied to spells cast by items, e.g. deepwater helm. You could click the hat, sit down until the bar was almost done casting, then stand back up again and it would finish its cast.

I don't recall that working for spells cast from the bar though.

This is how I remember it. I've been looking forward to doing it again with Kunark.

I've always been a dorf pally. I was in a DL group once with three Barb Shaman. They would cannibalize and I would "hat heal".

I always imagined a dwarf beating himself in the head while standing in the center of three barbarians who were chewing on their own arms.

[Messianic]

This:

I don't mean to sound negative but if you don't like being "nerfed" due to adjustments, I'd suggest waiting a year or so until playing. This way (hopefully) most of the growing pains will be over. If you choose to play, there's nothing wrong with vocalizing dismay or disagreement over a change but it really needs to be done in a respectful, non-bitchy way.

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[maximum]

Over two years old BUMP.

[Ele]

I for one would welcome this addition from Red99.

[Burrito]

Oh god, necros at work.

Looks like the biggest thing is affecting clicky item casts. Otherwise I'll have to go rebind my duck key to the stop casting command.

[Silo69]

/ramble on
I love this server. I just wish we didn't have to go overboard and cut our wrists. I like the fact that the server has classic content and will stop at Velious. I just think some things like game play / UI enhancements should be more like live.
Examples:
I would like duck to interrupt casting.
I would like pet window to show buffs.
I would like Shrink to work anywhere. (Seriously.. why not other than its not classic)
I would like pets to zone. (Yeah I am a Shaman and I hate zoning into combat without my pet)
I would like raid tools.
I would like ......

I know I want a lot and you are not likely to give it. Just saying I would like it.
I know I could create my own server but I don't have the programming knowledge.
/ramble off

Sorry in advance. Please don't hate me.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! some things that were added later as well as class balance issues even if not in the time line... even though its not classic... do it.. no need to drag us through the mud on a 15 year old emu some changes are good some are bad, keep the good remove the bad lets have FUN