So monks got nerfed overall then.

[Rayzor84]

Double attack is confirmed to occur less, seems about 33% less.

Also, damage is strongly reduced overall. Max hits are rare now, and at 38 I'm getting hits for 15-25 damage routinely with a wus quivering. I used to mainly hit in the 40s and 50s. This is also what other monks are telling me so it isn't just me. This is a pretty strong dps nerf, why did they make monks so much less effective for their levels?

[Toxicboy123]

Happened to mine as well. DBs use to be easier, now fighting a DB i normally would kill, is taking ALOT more hp off me and sometimes forcing to me FD and rest to full and try again

[Rayzor84]

Happened to mine as well. DBs use to be easier, now fighting a DB i normally would kill, is taking ALOT more hp off me and sometimes forcing to me FD and rest to full and try again

I couldn't really take DBs generally solo because my gear sucks as this is my main. But now it's out of the question and I take alot more damage even on low blues and high greens, simply because it takes so long to kill them now.

In groups I don't Teel like I'm contributing nearly as much as rogues and sk now, and add that to not being able to take damage well and it makes monks almost archaic as a class.

[indiscriminate_hater]

bout time

[Rivthis]

Nothing to see here, move along

[Bboboo]

Sound like a bunch of monkey business to me.

[sox7d]

ITT: crybabies whining that god class has been pegged down on par with the rest of us.


lol.

[Rayzor84]

ITT: crybabies whining that god class has been pegged down on par with the rest of us.


lol.

Every other class still has their niche. The monk niche was dishing damage and pulling. Now we are easily overshadowed by the other melee or even tank classes. I wouldn't say that's on par at all.

[Rivthis]

Every other class still has their niche. The monk niche was dishing damage and pulling. Now we are easily overshadowed by the other melee or even tank classes. I wouldn't say that's on par at all.

Monks can jump off cliffs and not die.

Found your niche

[Pheer]

geared monks have been reduced from super saiyan 4 goku to neo from the matrix

sad day

[hammertime7795]

The crit nerf + double atk nerf really hurt warriors monks have it easy!

[Rayzor84]

geared monks have been reduced from super saiyan 4 goku to neo from the matrix

sad day

Yeah, GEARED monks.

Monk is my main. I'm even wearing some cured silk and the newbie bracers at 38. If u can't twinked the monk out and play it normally, the patch puts u at a severe disadvantage compared to the rest.

Want to nerf damage? Remove the weight issue so we can loot and buy a proper weapon.

[Lune]

I relish your monk tears with a deep satisfaction, like warm bath water on the balls of my soul.

[Macha]

This affected all melee classes, correct? Or is was the nerf only applied to Monks?
It would seem this nerfs rogues just as much no?

[Rayzor84]

This affected all melee classes, correct? Or is was the nerf only applied to Monks?
It would seem this nerfs rogues just as much no?

Maybe but I'm not hearing rogues or sk or anyone else talking about their average dps being halved due to hitting for a median rather than upper damage.

[hammertime7795]

Maybe but I'm not hearing rogues or sk or anyone else talking about their average dps being halved due to hitting for a median rather than upper damage.

Rogues, monks and warriors got hit the hardest, rangers to a bit lesser degree.

[Rayzor84]

Rogues, monks and warriors got hit the hardest, rangers to a bit lesser degree.

Can anyone explain why this was necessary? Monks with normal gear can't even solo at my level well enough to make it better than grouping. Warriors and rangers didn't need ANY nerfs.

[Reguiy]

Playing a monk sucks anyway.

[Rayzor84]

Playing a monk sucks anyway.

How do u figure?

[hammertime7795]

Can anyone explain why this was necessary? Monks with normal gear can't even solo at my level well enough to make it better than grouping. Warriors and rangers didn't need ANY nerfs.

It baffles me. One of the devs would have to comment on it. Warriors had a hard enough life already

[indiscriminate_hater]

Can anyone explain why this was necessary? Monks with normal gear can't even solo at my level well enough to make it better than grouping.

original EQ devs designed the game so that grouping was necessary.

in other words... shit's fucking classic

[Breeziyo]

Monks with normal gear can't even solo at my level well enough to make it better than grouping.

this just in: the world is as it should be

[Reguiy]

How do u figure?

Can't solo anything. FD mechanics are annoying as hell. And once you get to raiding you're expected to be the workhorse, basically. You're running around the whole time working your ass off the whole raid while everyone else alt tabs and faps. And dpsing consists of pressing auto attack and kick.

[Man0warr]

I'm regularly hitting for 2 damage with an SoS offhand, is that supposed to be possible?

[Raev]

I tried to solo a L51 chokidai in Chardok and had to bail out and use my strings - and I had full cleric/shaman buffs. Before I could solo NG without any buffs at all. In general it felt like mobs were tougher/more resistant.

No idea how classic it is; I have yet to find the thread with the posted data.

The new increased FD blur chance is really nice though.

[Haynar]

Monk not being able to solo in kunark gear?

Sounds about right.

Add some velious gear, and will be different.

AC probably needs a boost across the boards.

[Nocsucow]

I tried to solo a L51 chokidai in Chardok and had to bail out and use my strings - and I had full cleric/shaman buffs. Before I could solo NG without any buffs at all. In general it felt like mobs were tougher/more resistant.

No idea how classic it is; I have yet to find the thread with the posted data.

The new increased FD blur chance is really nice though.

You should of never been able to solo that mob at all.. Even raid buffed

[SamwiseRed]

monks were never supposed to be the solo class they are today. remember when intimidate landed more often than a necro chain casting fear? i solo'd from 24 to 35 on half naked iksar monk because i would just chain intimidate giants in WW. best part was the fear also snared for some reason. shit was lulzy. good to see monks getting settled down before they own everything in velious.

[Nefarum]

AC probably needs a boost across the boards.

Yea it would be great if AC had more of an impact.

[Faiding]

I tried to solo a L51 chokidai in Chardok and had to bail out and use my strings - and I had full cleric/shaman buffs. Before I could solo NG without any buffs at all. In general it felt like mobs were tougher/more resistant.

No idea how classic it is; I have yet to find the thread with the posted data.

The new increased FD blur chance is really nice though.

Sounds like they fixed it then.

[Rayzor84]

Monk not being able to solo in kunark gear?

Sounds about right.

Add some velious gear, and will be different.

AC probably needs a boost across the boards.

I prefer groups, not soloing isn't a huge deal to me. But unless someone can twink, which I cant, we are even less effective in groups as well. Velious gear is cool but again that's a high level or rich player exclusive. As a 38 monk main my options are pretty limited. It's bad if u need to twink a class for it to catch up.

[Psionide]

Wait, Warrior got nerfed? So I have even less of a reason to login and play my useless warrior?

[hammertime7795]

Wait, Warrior got nerfed? So I have even less of a reason to login and play my useless warrior?

Dual wield, double attack and crits got nerfed so yeah warriors got hit hard.

[Red_Psyphon]

Warrior lvl 35 still droppin crits for 195 with staff of battle with 135str...seems pretty stronk still

[hammertime7795]

Warrior lvl 35 still droppin crits for 195 with staff of battle with 135str...seems pretty stronk still

so far from my testing it seems like about a 20% reduction in crit damage. + the dw and da nerf makes for a pretty hard hit to warriors.

[Rayzor84]

Can't solo anything. FD mechanics are annoying as hell. And once you get to raiding you're expected to be the workhorse, basically. You're running around the whole time working your ass off the whole raid while everyone else alt tabs and faps. And dpsing consists of pressing auto attack and kick.

What would u recommend for an alt or new main? Possibly bard, shaman, necro? Something else? Not many classes fit my play style but it does get annoying being designated puller all the time.

[hammertime7795]

What would u recommend for an alt or new main? Possibly bard, shaman, necro? Something else? Not many classes fit my play style but it does get annoying being designated puller all the time.

Bards will always be hax on this server since circle kiting is not done away with until pop but they need a lot of twinkage too.

[fiveeauxfour]

I wonder if 2hb now is the way to go for monk dps...

[Teppler]

What would u recommend for an alt or new main? Possibly bard, shaman, necro? Something else? Not many classes fit my play style but it does get annoying being designated puller all the time.


Consider a chanter bro. I'm thinking about making a shaman alt since monks are nerfed now.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

I wonder if 2hb now is the way to go for monk dps...

Yo son Ive been preaching that 2hb + punching tech since I hit the server - shouldn't work but it does.

[Raev]

Everyone seems to think I'm whining for some reason; I'm just stating the differences. It's a big change is all.

Haynar, would you mind linking the thread where the numbers were posted?

[Haynar]

Everyone seems to think I'm whining for some reason; I'm just stating the differences. It's a big change is all.

Haynar, would you mind linking the thread where the numbers were posted?

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38708

[Haynar]

The values for multipliers for critical damage were determined from empirical data parsing on EQLive with 12 different weapons of different damages and delays.

H

[Raev]

So those are numbers for NPCs, not PCs. Were they lower before? It's interesting that he says NPCs will take the lower delay from fast weapons - I wonder if that is true in Classic? Why is everyone is making it sound like PCs were nerfed? I was under the impression that the PC formulas for DA/DW were well known (lvl+skill / X, where X was 600/500/400 depending on class and DA/DW etc). I AM IN A SPINNING BALL OF CONFUSION

[Nirgon]

Speaking of melee nerfs, is this a good place to link the launch day Velious tov item stats?

http://padangg.tripod.com/ntov/ntov.htm

Look at that sweet rogue dagger from Vulak :cool:

[pasi]

The NPC double attack data was the reason that I was trying to purchase Al'Kabor Logs earlier.

Bravo to this man.

[hammertime7795]

So those are numbers for NPCs, not PCs. Were they lower before? It's interesting that he says NPCs will take the lower delay from fast weapons - I wonder if that is true in Classic? Why is everyone is making it sound like PCs were nerfed? I was under the impression that the PC formulas for DA/DW were well known (lvl+skill / X, where X was 600/500/400 depending on class and DA/DW etc). I AM IN A SPINNING BALL OF CONFUSION

Yes it was that way in classic, thats why people gave their pets fs daggers.

[Raev]

Yes it was that way in classic, thats why people gave their pets fs daggers.

but that got nerfed extremely fast i thought

[rollin5k]

Fuck monks, they're not even classic

[hammertime7795]

but that got nerfed extremely fast i thought

not that i'm aware of

You can give a lvl 1 pet a 30/40 2h hammer that you get in ec for 50p and it will hit for 61 at the same delay it swings fists too. That never changed idk why the fs dagger would have.

[Swish]

Ever see those monks soloing the valley in MM, or doing their own thing in Unrest while a group of 6 is left mobless?

Yeah, me too... sucked didn't it? At least they'll be more likely to LFG now :p

[arsenalpow]

Sweet, even more incentive to play my SK!

[Aviann]

I feel bad for most of the melees for having to experience the classic experience without an AC fix currently...

But I can't help but look at the graphs and wonder if the significant increase in post-60 bonuses had any play with the pre-60 bonuses taken from NPC's. NPC's usually hit for higher, and harder, so if I am correct, classic would mean this patch is completely correct? I am unsure and drunk.

[Skittlez]

Dual wield, double attack and crits got nerfed so yeah warriors got hit hard.

Oh man that sucks ass. It's already difficult keeping aggro as a warrior without epic(s).

Now my damage is gonna suck too? Shits classic.

[fiveeauxfour]

I really must be missing something? Where is the thread/post that shows the new numbers for DW and DA? I tried forum searches but I keep coming up with nothing.

[hammertime7795]

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38708

was right here

[Waedawen]

Speaking of melee nerfs, is this a good place to link the launch day Velious tov item stats?

http://padangg.tripod.com/ntov/ntov.htm

Look at that sweet rogue dagger from Vulak :cool:

Those stats look so much more realistic, thanks for that.

[fiveeauxfour]

was right here

NPC chances = PC chances?

[hammertime7795]

NPC chances = PC chances?

That is what was posted by dev so i guess.

[khanable]

Just need to nerf those unclassic wu's fists and we're golden!

[Raev]

NPC chances = PC chances?

AFAIK, they should be different. For example, I thought Warrior DW chance should be (lvl+skill)/500 = (252+60)/500 = just a touch over 60% at 60. We will have to get Haynar to confirm what he changed, but I'm guessing the result is a huge increase in mob damage. For example, I logged on Loraen. My froglok krup knight is L51 with weapons and epic haste:

[Fri Dec 05 21:31:56 2014] Froglok krup knight tries to slash a sepsis scarab, but misses!
[Fri Dec 05 21:32:37 2014] A sepsis scarab bites froglok krup knight for 136 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 05 21:32:58 2014] a sepsis scarab has been slain by froglok krup knight!
[Fri Dec 05 21:33:05 2014] Froglok krup knight tries to slash a sepsis scarab, but misses!
[Fri Dec 05 21:34:02 2014] a sepsis scarab has been slain by froglok krup knight!
[Fri Dec 05 21:34:35 2014] Froglok krup knight slashes a sepsis scarab for 34 points of damage.
[Fri Dec 05 21:35:29 2014] a sepsis scarab has been slain by froglok krup knight!

Thats 3 bug kills in 62 seconds, 57 seconds, and 54 seconds . . . probably 120+ dps and facing front too. In particular, the cooldown was disgusting. It was attacking every second with epic haste. Of course, charm break was not a lot of fun. . . .

[fiveeauxfour]

fk this shit. time to reroll

[zanderklocke]

Monks still OP

[Ele]

Monks still OP

If monks aren't getting more powerful every patch, then Congress isn't doing their job.

Damn budget cuts.

[Rourk]

What would u recommend for an alt or new main? Possibly bard, shaman, necro? Something else? Not many classes fit my play style but it does get annoying being designated puller all the time.

Shamans are kings of Velious.

[Rourk]

Just need to nerf those unclassic wu's fists and we're golden!

Stop it.

[hammertime7795]

Shamans are kings of Velious.

Shaman is the plural of shaman. With gear shaman are pretty uber in velious but monks/rogues are pretty badass too. If you think pulling is bad you wont like playing a shaman.

[Rourk]

Shaman is the plural of shaman. With gear shaman are pretty uber in velious but monks/rogues are pretty badass too. If you think pulling is bad you wont like playing a shaman.

Websters says you're wrong. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shaman)

Anyway, back to shit that normal people care about:

Shaman slow is imperative on most fights (that it can land). Between Torpor, Malo, and Slow, they are indispensable in Velious. Pulling has nothing to do with ShamanS. They are a utility class with a strong emphasis on debuffs.

[Nisei]

Ranger confirmed GOAT class.

[Buellen]

but that got nerfed extremely fast i thought


The nerf of using fine steel daggers to increase your pet swing speed, was only to the pet classes mage , enchanter, necro.

NPC would always use the delay of the weapon they was using if it was faster than then normal swing speed.


This is why it was so important to disarm some of the mobs you saw with daggers as they would generally kick your arse.

Still remember the trauma and consequent death of my druid upon charm break, when charming and arming my pet with two fine steel daggers.
was even worse for enchanters on charm break.

[hammertime7795]

Websters says you're wrong. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shaman)

Anyway, back to shit that normal people care about:

Shaman slow is imperative on most fights (that it can land). Between Torpor, Malo, and Slow, they are indispensable in Velious. Pulling has nothing to do with ShamanS. They are a utility class with a strong emphasis on debuffs.

True the don't have to pull but they are constantly buffing/healing/canni/slowing Non stop tells. Its not for the faint of heart. So if you can't handle pulling you don't want to play a shaman. Play a wizard or a rogue.

[Gregor]

Lemme get this straight. The entire server is dominated by shaman for years(a problem which will only get worse in Velious) and they nerf rogue and warrior?

Rogue and Warrior are the most group nurturing classes ever, why give people reasons to quit them? And if grouping is such a big concern why are Wizards still so terrible at it?

[Buellen]

Nilbog:

" I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy."

------
YES they have made some non classic for raid balance but overall they will try to get to true classic as ever and some cases this means nerving some classes as they did on live.

[Swish]

Nilbog:

" I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy.

http://i.imgur.com/GyaUGaT.gif

(Disclaimer: Not implying that Nilbog is a lady)

[derpcake]

meh, dat RNG

[falendar]

This affected all melee classes, correct? Or is was the nerf only applied to Monks?
It would seem this nerfs rogues just as much no?

a large portion of rogue dmg is from bs, not reg attacks, so no this would affect rog very little.

[stakha]

Bards will always be hax on this server since circle kiting is not done away with until pop but they need a lot of twinkage too.

Bards dont need to be twinked at all. It's easy to earn money w the class and gear yourself. My bard was my first char on the server and I've never felt undergeared. Bard only weapons are also very inexpensive for their strength. BiS droppable pair will only run around 6k, but that is far from necessary early on. Think I got them at 48 or so.

[Swish]

a large portion of rogue dmg is from bs, not reg attacks, so no this would affect rog very little.

If a rogue is double backstabbing for 500+500 (ish) each time, maybe :p

[falendar]

If a rogue is double backstabbing for 500+500 (ish) each time, maybe :p

even without it max bsing, it is still a large part of their dps.

[Rayzor84]

Bards dont need to be twinked at all. It's easy to earn money w the class and gear yourself. My bard was my first char on the server and I've never felt undergeared. Bard only weapons are also very inexpensive for their strength. BiS droppable pair will only run around 6k, but that is far from necessary early on. Think I got them at 48 or so.

Yeah I can't decide between bard and chanter. I mean, chanter are similar to Monks in that they have extremely defined roles in groups (crack, mez) which seems like it would be boring. Bards look versatile but I dunno. It sucks because I loved my monks role, I usually didn't even mind pulling for the most part. But after seeing that guy post about how raids go with monks and making them ineffective unless twinked, I really don't know.

To the guy who is mad about a monk soloing his MM and unrest mobs: yeah with a fungi this will happen with any melee class. I've had it happen to me all through unrest, MM, and HK by Rangers.

[webrunner5]

To the guy who is mad about a monk soloing his MM and unrest mobs: yeah with a fungi this will happen with any melee class. I've had it happen to me all through unrest, MM, and HK by Rangers.

Yeah, with a Fungi I think a twinked Warrior is better in the Valley solo than a Monk. And a Ranger with one and Harmony, Woodsman Staff is pretty much non stop compared to the Monk, Warrior because of no adds. Casters in there put a hurting on Monk and Ranger though. Warrior is not called a meat puppet for no reason. :p Specially a Ogre one.

[wycca]

I played a monk on live, and there's a reason that even with epic, cof, and a fungi, that I stuck to soloing LDC's and bank guards in qeynos and had an inventory full of bandages. Not sure where monks on p99 got the idea that they could solo all day, let alone on kunark mobs and that it was classic. I distinctly remember thinking I was a low-hp warrior when leveling pre-kunark - the major advantage being mend and fd - weapons in kunark helped, but monks were not the crazy soloing machines they've been on p99 at all. If they had been, everyone on live would have been playing them and they'd be nerfed into oblivion. As it was, it took Luclin gear/AA and some flimsy ramp tank scenarios to get a nerf bat...fix sounds like it made things more classic. There's a reason there weren't a ton of monks back in the day.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

This thread has potential. Just from the first 4 pages, I collected enough tears to make a nice piping hot cup of melee tear tea.

[Rayzor84]

Anyone else able to weigh in on chanter vs bard? Pros and cons?

[Daldaen]

Bard is great soloing potential 1-55
Enchanter is great soloing potential 20-60
Both are great in groups
Enchanters are boring on raids unless charming.
Bards are always needed on raids.

[maestrom]

Bard melee DPS is negligible so you don't really have to worry about attacking if you don't want to. Bards can move while casting so you never really get interrupted. Bards have the best move speed buff in the game. Lambent armor just looks cool. People who play bards are taller, better looking, and make more money irl than people who play other classes. Bards -never- have to med.

Bards rule. Enchanters drool.

Edit: Bards only die when they're not being careful (which should be often. If you wanna play it safe, play a necro). Chanters die even when they're being careful, which is stupid.

[Rayzor84]

Ok thanks for the breakdowns. Now let's do this...can either class solo camp nice drops at higher levels? This is one reason I was originally leaning necro.

[maestrom]

Necro would probably be better for higher level item camps. I've never played an enchanter but necros have FD/lifetaps which help when charm breaks and you get resisted.

[Raev]

Mobs got buffed. I don't understand how this is a nerf to melee classes. It's an absolute nerf to everyone, which is good because we were fucking destroying this stuff. If anything I think tanks will get more love; before you could have fucking druids tank if your shaman was good.

I just want to see Project 1999: Blue V2. Without the AOE exploits. Without the invis pull exploits. With correct AC/resist code. I mean, it's one thing to deal with this on fully geared L60 toons. If we were all L52 again with half our slots trash and half classic gear, all of this kunark content would be so much more interesting again.

[webrunner5]

Bards can get to level 60 probably faster than any class on here if, and I mean if, you are good at twisting since there is never going to Melody on here, and IF you can stand running in a oval for hours on end.

Enchanters are way better at top end mobs loot wise. Necro's are damn good with charm and all they got but lack the crowd control you need solo in high risk indoor dungeons where unfortunately EQ has the best loot available.

So I am saying Enchanter, Necro, Bard in that order loot wise top end. I can count on one hand how many really uber abilty wise, playing Bards, I have ever grouped with compared to Enchanters on here. And I would bet most are women just like live. Twisting is HARD as hell to do non stop for hours on end. :eek: No way can I do it. But a well played Bard is a thing of beauty.

[Man0warr]

Mobs got buffed. I don't understand how this is a nerf to melee classes. It's an absolute nerf to everyone, which is good because we were fucking destroying this stuff. If anything I think tanks will get more love; before you could have fucking druids tank if your shaman was good.

I think some how players got nerfed too, I have never hit for 2 damage with a 17 damage offhand at level 60 - I don't think that is correct.

[SamwiseRed]

I think some how players got nerfed too, I have never hit for 2 damage with a 17 damage offhand at level 60 - I don't think that is correct.

i guess you never missed either?

ive 500+ dmg nukes land for 2 or 3 pts of dmg. feels good.

[hammertime7795]

even without it max bsing, it is still a large part of their dps.

Not even close to true

[douglas1999]

I think monks can still solo pretty good in Ocean of Tears. There are definitely some soloable mobs for monks in the Ocean of Tears I hear.

[fastboy21]

Bard melee DPS is negligible so you don't really have to worry about attacking if you don't want to. Bards can move while casting so you never really get interrupted. Bards have the best move speed buff in the game. Lambent armor just looks cool. People who play bards are taller, better looking, and make more money irl than people who play other classes. Bards -never- have to med.

Bards rule. Enchanters drool.

Edit: Bards only die when they're not being careful (which should be often. If you wanna play it safe, play a necro). Chanters die even when they're being careful, which is stupid.

awesome.

[fastboy21]

I played a monk on live, and there's a reason that even with epic, cof, and a fungi, that I stuck to soloing LDC's and bank guards in qeynos and had an inventory full of bandages. Not sure where monks on p99 got the idea that they could solo all day, let alone on kunark mobs and that it was classic. I distinctly remember thinking I was a low-hp warrior when leveling pre-kunark - the major advantage being mend and fd - weapons in kunark helped, but monks were not the crazy soloing machines they've been on p99 at all. If they had been, everyone on live would have been playing them and they'd be nerfed into oblivion. As it was, it took Luclin gear/AA and some flimsy ramp tank scenarios to get a nerf bat...fix sounds like it made things more classic. There's a reason there weren't a ton of monks back in the day.

its just been so long on p99...monks have always been so powerful here.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Anyone else able to weigh in on chanter vs bard? Pros and cons?

bards are the kings of outdoor zones, enchanters the kings of indoor zones. bards can solo anything up to level 50 once they hit level 28, but enchanters are one of only 2 classes that can solo most 55+ mobs.

still, i'm really surprised more people haven't leveled up a bard to 54 just for the sheer versatility of the class. you can level a bard up to 54 in 1-2 weeks, and if you have a buddy use that to level a druid up to mid 50s in 1-2 weeks (before the low-hp nerf this whole process would take a week, and you'd have 2 high-level bards). within a month of starting from scratch on this server you can be making tens of thousands of platinum per day. *shrug*

also, side note: it's going to be funny watching people complain that bards were the first to lock down the holgresh camp in wakening lands when velious finally drops, just by virtue of being able to outrun the competition

[Raev]

I think some how players got nerfed too, I have never hit for 2 damage with a 17 damage offhand at level 60 - I don't think that is correct.

[Sun Oct 26 17:21:50 2014] You crush an essence harvester for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:21:57 2014] You crush an essence harvester for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:22:14 2014] You crush an essence harvester for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:22:40 2014] You crush an essence carrier for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:22:50 2014] You crush an essence carrier for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:25:41 2014] You crush an essence carrier for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:26:48 2014] You crush an essence tamer for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:28:53 2014] You crush an essence tamer for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:31:32 2014] You crush a soul carrier for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:31:49 2014] You crush a soul carrier for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:36:25 2014] You crush Keeper of Souls for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:36:52 2014] You crush Keeper of Souls for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:36:57 2014] You crush Keeper of Souls for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:43:17 2014] You crush a spiroc vanquisher for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:43:45 2014] You crush a spiroc vanquisher for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 17:45:25 2014] You crush a spiroc arbiter for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 18:38:31 2014] You crush The Spiroc Lord for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 18:38:45 2014] You crush The Spiroc Lord for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 18:55:11 2014] You crush a fatestealer drake for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 18:55:47 2014] You crush a fatestealer drake for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 20:00:01 2014] You crush Sister of the Spire for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 20:09:39 2014] You crush Sister of the Spire for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 20:34:51 2014] You crush Eye of Veeshan for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 21:44:47 2014] You crush Overseer of Air for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 21:45:00 2014] You crush Overseer of Air for 2 points of damage.
[Sun Oct 26 21:45:19 2014] You crush Overseer of Air for 2 points of damage.


From one raid. Unless I was utterly facepalming and using my mosscovered twig in sky.

[fiveeauxfour]

Monks only do 2 dmg per hit now! The end is nigh! Reroll!

[Mandalore93]

ITT: Pleib class goes back to its rightful place.

Weighing in on the bard stuff, chanters will make better money at sixty if they're good at soloing. If not even a bad bard can make consistent money with power leveling. Although I've always wondered if a top end bard could solo stuff with howling cutlass/harmonic dagger while spamming trak bp and using a charmed pet.

[Grimjaw]

seems like they put monks in line with other melee

[Aviann]

seems like they put monks in line with other melee

Its true, and the saiyans hate it. I still remember when rogue backstab was set in line and being toyed with, I saw half of these people laughing because it made them more viable to groups... Now they are complaining because they can't tank as much as a warrior, and can't dps like a rogue... I see the joke in it all now.

[Raev]

I feel like I am in some sort of distorted reality zone.

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT MELEE WERE CHANGED AT ALL? There is nothing to gloat over here, unless you are a fan of classic difficulty mobs.

[arsenalpow]

I feel like I am in some sort of distorted reality zone.

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT MELEE WERE CHANGED AT ALL? There is nothing to gloat over here, unless you are a fan of classic difficulty mobs.

people just like trolling the OP class that is now less OP

[Zliz]

So subjective opinions on a class' strength is now good reasoning for nerfing? Interesting. I also think that quad kiting is OP, better look into nerfing that.

At level 45 I'm seeing zero difference though.

[Aviann]

So subjective opinions on a class' strength is now good reasoning for nerfing? Interesting. I also think that quad kiting is OP, better look into nerfing that.

At level 45 I'm seeing zero difference though.

It wasn't opinion, this shit is classic. Everquest was a difficult game to play starting out as a melee, it's about time that it comes back to that.

[Fysts]

Im not sure what classic eq you all played, but as a monk from classic I easily solo'd and could easily solo. Monks damage now isnt par with what it was in classic, nowhere close. Monk with epic right when turn of velious was easily parsing 80-90dps and with full raid buffs counting avatar over 100dps. Monks could give any class a run for their money tanking, and in velious straight up tanking with no disc's were by far, even above warrior, superior at tanking. If you want to call shit classic then you gotta leave it as it was in classic. INFACT, monks got a dps boost in velious and had their damage tables redone.

[Urkel]

Its true, and the saiyans hate it. I still remember when rogue backstab was set in line and being toyed with, I saw half of these people laughing because it made them more viable to groups... Now they are complaining because they can't tank as much as a warrior, and can't dps like a rogue... I see the joke in it all now.

Lol ok, so where are the posts from half the people in this thread saying that? Or are you just spewing bullshit?

[jarshale]

Surprise, you can't solo naked at almost level 40 on a melee char. Shocking.

[Zliz]

It wasn't opinion, this shit is classic. Everquest was a difficult game to play starting out as a melee, it's about time that it comes back to that.
A lot of people posting here just spewed out "they deserve it!" with no facts to back it up. I don't understand how this can be patched out of the blue after 4-5 years.

I still think it's very difficult to solo a Monk even with some of the best Kunark gear I can buy (excluding MQs or fungi). I can only do mobs that are juuuust blue and close to high green, and I burn through tons of bandages, have to take breaks depending on the mobs, and most casters are impossible.

I wasn't complaining at all about the difficulty, I just think it is/was difficult enough already.

[capco]

Scum.

[Haynar]

Im not sure what classic eq you all played, but as a monk from classic I easily solo'd and could easily solo. Monks damage now isnt par with what it was in classic, nowhere close. Monk with epic right when turn of velious was easily parsing 80-90dps and with full raid buffs counting avatar over 100dps. Monks could give any class a run for their money tanking, and in velious straight up tanking with no disc's were by far, even above warrior, superior at tanking. If you want to call shit classic then you gotta leave it as it was in classic. INFACT, monks got a dps boost in velious and had their damage tables redone.
Find me some parses that show diff class dps for the era.

H

[Priceline]

~the things were deleted!

[Skittlez]

Why would you google that..

[indiscriminate_hater]

A lot of people posting here just spewed out "they deserve it!" with no facts to back it up. I don't understand how this can be patched out of the blue after 4-5 years.

I still think it's very difficult to solo a Monk even with some of the best Kunark gear I can buy (excluding MQs or fungi). I can only do mobs that are juuuust blue and close to high green, and I burn through tons of bandages, have to take breaks depending on the mobs, and most casters are impossible.

I wasn't complaining at all about the difficulty, I just think it is/was difficult enough already.

not sure if serious or...?

probably every question/concern/confusion from your post can be answered by the C word

[Phantasm]

want to be a dps monk ? Roll a rogue
want to be a warrior that relies on dps to obtain aggro ? buy some clickies
monks were gods and now they are reduced to demi-gods(amg the horrorz)

god forbid you have to play a monk and group with people to gain experience. game is designed for group play

I play a monk and I don't care about a small difference in dps. What you should be focusing on is the change in FD where mobs forget you more often. Instead of being happy about pulling mechanics gain(which is what monks are mainly used for) you complain we can't out dps the pure dps class, WOMP WOMP

[hammertime7795]

Even with very high end gear fungi, dragon haste, cobalt armor etc my 20 something warrior is getting creamed by blue mobs now. Obviously even with good gear warriors could never solo well but its pretty obscene how much damage I take now. Warriors always had good dps and good mitigation just spotty aggro. Atm I have neither. The crit nerf was harsh and not classic I think they gave warriors the crit mods for casters because this is not how it was.

[GinnasP99]

Even with very high end gear fungi, dragon haste, cobalt armor etc my 20 something warrior is getting creamed by blue mobs now. Obviously even with good gear warriors could never solo well but its pretty obscene how much damage I take now. Warriors always had good dps and good mitigation just spotty aggro. Atm I have neither. The crit nerf was harsh and not classic I think they gave warriors the crit mods for casters because this is not how it was.

I just solo'd a vapor golem in CoM on a 47 monk with trance stick, knuckle duster, fbss, and a living fungus robe (trash gear in comparison to what you list). Not sure im experiencing the same thing you are.

[hammertime7795]

I just solo'd a vapor golem in CoM on a 47 monk with trance stick, knuckle duster, fbss, and a living fungus robe (trash gear in comparison to what you list). Not sure im experiencing the same thing you are.

Monks have better avoidance than warriors do so all the max hits im taking because ac seems to have pretty much 0 effect. Plus you have capped out pre 50 skills and my warrior does not being only 20 something. Perhaps it will get better in the 40s. Testing the crit nerfs at 60 though it was way harsh many crits not even hitting for max melee. So I guess only time will tell.

[Lucia Moonglow]

If people want to argue that melees are worse now than they were on live, that's one thing, but you'll need to offer solid evidence, like confirmed parsings from classic EQ, in order to get things changed.

The people arguing from a balance perspective: Rogean has stated straight up that his goal is to emulate and duplicate classic EQ as much as possible, regardless of the impact on the community. He has straight up stated that he doesn't care about appeasing the player base, or addressing balance issues, or fixing broken mechanics or skills.

Look at the whole sit/stand thing. When was the last time you heard someone say "Man, wasn't EQ way better back when you had to manually stand up to cast and manually sit to camp out?" Never, because nobody ever said that, but that's how it was in classic and that's how it is here, now.

If something was imbalanced, broken, or missing in classic, then it's going to be the same way here if at all possible. That's just the way it is, whether we agree with that philosophy or not.

[hammertime7795]

If people want to argue that melees are worse now than they were on live, that's one thing, but you'll need to offer solid evidence, like confirmed parsings from classic EQ, in order to get things changed.

The people arguing from a balance perspective: Rogean has stated straight up that his goal is to emulate and duplicate classic EQ as much as possible, regardless of the impact on the community. He has straight up stated that he doesn't care about appeasing the player base, or addressing balance issues, or fixing broken mechanics or skills.

If something was imbalanced, broken, or missing in classic, then it's going to be the same way here if at all possible. That's just the way it is, whether we agree with that philosophy or not.

Well this is clearly not true since he allows outright racist names that never would have been allowed in classic. I don't have 15 year old parses. Things were broken in classic it took time to fix them. Going back to broken mechanics that they went and fixed later is silly and not classic just broken.

[Lucia Moonglow]

Well this is clearly not true since he allows outright racist names that never would have been allowed in classic. I don't have 15 year old parses. Things were broken in classic it took time to fix them. Going back to broken mechanics that they went and fixed later is silly and not classic just broken.

While I agree with you, the devs of P99 do not, and have bluntly stated so.

Look at class-based XP penalties. When EQ game out, the knowledge of group roles wasn't well-known, so the devs ran on the assumption that a hybrid of warrior and druid, or warrior and cleric, was more powerful and more versatile than either parent class, so a massive 40% penalty was applied.

Then, after EQ was out for a while, they realized that each group member has a role to play, and that specialization is just as valuable as versatility, so they removed the class-based penalties because they weren't relevant to the MMO dynamic.

Yet, here we are with class penalties because they were present in classic EQ. Even though the community and even the creators of the game themselves admitted they screwed that one up, here it is, because there it was.

[Conscript]

Well this is clearly not true since he allows outright racist names that never would have been allowed in classic. I don't have 15 year old parses. Things were broken in classic it took time to fix them. Going back to broken mechanics that they went and fixed later is silly and not classic just broken.

Racism is pretty classic and seems to only be getting worse with each passing year..

Oh humanity.. :rolleyes:

[apio]

yeah, its the typical shitty nerf everything and then when people say its wrong tell them to dig up evidence. How about the shitty devs dig up evidence before breaking the game. roflcopter

And im sorry, but the FD fix doesn't make up for the nerf, maybe if you are a shitty monk player it does, but not for people who master the class

[Clark]

Happened to mine as well. DBs use to be easier, now fighting a DB i normally would kill, is taking ALOT more hp off me and sometimes forcing to me FD and rest to full and try again

Sounds more classic, but whyyy we love monks!

[Calibretto]

You really don't have any justification to complain like you are here apio. You are playing a 100% free game. A game that only exists because of the Devs. Criticize devs in a game where your subscription pays their salary all you want. If you were to take that attitude with these devs in public face-to-face im pretty sure your approach would be different or it would be likely met with a jab to the jiblets. Grow up bro, you are embarrassing yourself.

" How about the shitty devs dig up evidence before breaking the game." - apio

Really dude? You and your generation are really becoming intolerable. Go fuck yourself you entitled little cunt.

I bet you think you should be paid $15/hr at your fast-food job too.

[Rayzor84]

Everyone ITT that thinks I'm concerned with Monk ability to solo needs to learn to read. I soloed guards in HK, every other level after 6 or so I was grouped. I'm talking about being overshadowed in group dynamics.

If a class doesn't have something they excel at, I feel like that's a problem. Rangers track and have bows, SK can tank and are master agro machines, etc. Every other class has its niche, and monks are overshadowed by both tanks and dps. I even see charmed enchanter pets doing damage on par with me in the group, making my presence redundant.

I already sold all my gear and rolled a chanter. At least I'll have a defined purpose for my class. Inb4 monks pull, lol pulling alone doesn't make a class enjoyable, it's more work for less reward.

[fastboy21]

Everyone ITT that thinks I'm concerned with Monk ability to solo needs to learn to read. I soloed guards in HK, every other level after 6 or so I was grouped. I'm talking about being overshadowed in group dynamics.

If a class doesn't have something they excel at, I feel like that's a problem. Rangers track and have bows, SK can tank and are master agro machines, etc. Every other class has its niche, and monks are overshadowed by both tanks and dps. I even see charmed enchanter pets doing damage on par with me in the group, making my presence redundant.

I already sold all my gear and rolled a chanter. At least I'll have a defined purpose for my class. Inb4 monks pull, lol pulling alone doesn't make a class enjoyable, it's more work for less reward.

Well, fair enough...but this thread belongs back in 2000...thats what monks were in classic EQ.

For all its pros and cons (and some will say either about the following fact), EQ wasn't known for having class balance. Depending on era some classes were definitely "less useful" (to use a kind way of describing it) than others. Even within that framework, monks are hardly the worst off in classic EQ.

[stakha]

yeah, its the typical shitty nerf everything and then when people say its wrong tell them to dig up evidence. How about the shitty devs dig up evidence before breaking the game. roflcopter

And im sorry, but the FD fix doesn't make up for the nerf, maybe if you are a shitty monk player it does, but not for people who master the class

You're lucky the shitty devs don't ban your IP for this sort of attitude. Perhaps you should be more concerned with mastering basic social skills than mastering the monk class. Learn to appreciate those who have paid for your meal you petulant fuck.

[Rivthis]

You're lucky the shitty devs don't ban your IP for this sort of attitude. Perhaps you should be more concerned with mastering basic social skills than mastering the monk class. Learn to appreciate those who have paid for your meal you petulant fuck.

^Exactly what I was thinking

[Raev]

yeah, its the typical shitty nerf everything and then when people say its wrong tell them to dig up evidence. How about the shitty devs dig up evidence before breaking the game. roflcopter

And im sorry, but the FD fix doesn't make up for the nerf, maybe if you are a shitty monk player it does, but not for people who master the class

By master the class I assume you mean relying on our currently broken implementation of sneak?

Also, while Haynar and I have had our differences THE GUY FUCKING CARES. For years Nilbog has had a fanatical obsession with reproducing classic EQ's quests, mobs, pathing, etc while the mechanics of the game have been quite off. Now Haynar is tackling this problem of trying to get us some legit classic mechanics. He may make a few wrong steps, but he's going off the little evidence we have. Rather than bitching, go find some posts and try to help him out. It shouldn't be hard to google monkly business and see what monks were soloing back then.

If a class doesn't have something they excel at, I feel like that's a problem. Rangers track and have bows, SK can tank and are master agro machines, etc. Every other class has its niche, and monks are overshadowed by both tanks and dps. I even see charmed enchanter pets doing damage on par with me in the group, making my presence redundant.

Did you just seriously claim Rangers have a role and monks don't? Monks are the best raid pullers in the game (it's not close), 2nd best group pullers (behind bards and ahead of enchanters), 3rd best raid dps (behind Rogues and Wizards), 3rd best group DPS (behind Rogues and Enchanters). On top of that you have fantastic utility: FD+sneak allows you to go anywhere in dungeons and live when the rest of the group dies. Compare to the poor Warrior who is a babe in the woods without help.

Furthermore, and I don't know how many times I have to say this for it to sink in, I'm pretty sure monks weren't nerfed. He just made NPCs stronger. If NPCs are stronger, which classes become more valuable? the crowd control classes! Meaning Enchanter, Shaman, Bard, and Monk are . .. EVEN BETTER than they were before relative to other classes. Tanks get a bit better, and DPS classes like Rogues get worse because you are a bit more concerned with staying alive.

TLDR: I cannot believe people are complaining that monks are underpowered, just please stop.

[Haynar]

yeah, its the typical shitty nerf everything and then when people say its wrong tell them to dig up evidence. How about the shitty devs dig up evidence before breaking the game. roflcopter

And im sorry, but the FD fix doesn't make up for the nerf, maybe if you are a shitty monk player it does, but not for people who master the class
You must have a lot of friends.

H

[SamwiseRed]

monks who rely entire on splitting suck as pullers. learn to sneak pull scrubs.

[-Catherin-]

Sounds like devs are trying to re-create the monk protest in West Freeport.

That was classic :p


http://i.imgur.com/OHfHWnu.jpg

[Haynar]

Sounds like devs are trying to re-create the monk protest in West Freeport.

That was classic :p


http://i.imgur.com/OHfHWnu.jpg
Sounds more like the devs are leaning towards not adjusting monk dps. At all

H

[Rayzor84]

Sounds more like the devs are leaning towards not adjusting monk dps. At all

H

That's ok I'm on that chanter time now. Just a shame to give up my main before 60.

[Haynar]

I am not working on monk dps anymore. Too much whining.

Will think about it again after the next patch.

H

[rsloans84]

don't be a quitter get them all to 60

[Rayzor84]

don't be a quitter get them all to 60

I didn't delete the monk so I may pick him back up after I level the chanter and make some money. Then I'll be able to afford higher end gear for the monk, making him viable again. Maybe a strong 2hb or 2 good 1hbs, a better haste item and a fungi.

[apio]

how pathetic can you get. roflcopter

[Lune]

I am not working on monk dps anymore. Too much whining.

Will think about it again after the next patch.

H

pras

[Ennewi]

how pathetic can you get. roflcopter

really looking forward to using these, keep up the good work


on a side note, paying $$ for P99 Nudie Patch :D

[Haynar]

For those that care. I was already done with changes that would affect monk dps.

So. Duh. Not gonna work on them more.

Pending update.

After next patch, if more tweaks are needed, then will take a look.

H

[Rayzor84]

For those that care. I was already done with changes that would affect monk dps.

So. Duh. Not gonna work on them more.

Pending update.

After next patch, if more tweaks are needed, then will take a look.

H

That's a good sign, thanks.

Keep us posted. Maybe I'll start playing the monk again at that time.

[NegaStoat]

just a dumb question that's remotely on topic. The changes to NPC dual wield / double attack chances - did these affect player character class Pets at all? Will mage or necro pets dual wield or double attack more often than before?

[Haynar]

just a dumb question that's remotely on topic. The changes to NPC dual wield / double attack chances - did these affect player character class Pets at all? Will mage or necro pets dual wield or double attack more often than before?
They will double, dual less often.

However, the base attack speed changed for them too. So pets do about the same dps or slightly more dps.

H

[rsloans84]

thank you Haynar for the work you put on the server!

[Snackies]

Dropping aggro via multiple FD attempts is much easier and dragons can still be pulled.

Real monks love this patch.

[Rayzor84]

Dropping aggro via multiple FD attempts is much easier and dragons can still be pulled.

Real monks love this patch.

If by real monks u mean monks who hit 50+ and have been relegated to pulling with no other role whatsoever in the game. Enjoy that.

[Bazia]

monks are still by far the best class in the game after this patch

the tears are ridiculous

[Calibretto]

how pathetic can you get. roflcopter

This guy's message is ironically funny.

[Rararboker]

....the tears are ridiculous

[Cecily]

a large portion of rogue dmg is from bs, not reg attacks, so no this would affect rog very little.

Backstab accounts for about 35-40% of a L60 rogue's DPS. Main hand is ~40% and offhand is about 20%. Numbers pulled from memory of ALOT of pre-patch parses.If you think a nerf to 60% of my damage is very little, yeah... Not excited to see the new numbers.

However, I do think I read that mobs are more dangerous now? That's fantastic. I loved getting destroyed when I played bad on live. Rogues were mainly fun to play because of that risk.

PS: I think double backstab is tied to double attack as well, so it might be impacting rogue damage across the board.

[Cecily]

Also, dps monks:

http://i.imgur.com/fwLK3l3.jpg

[fastboy21]

If by real monks u mean monks who hit 50+ and have been relegated to pulling with no other role whatsoever in the game. Enjoy that.

What great super crazy fun unique role do you think you are missing out on?

Hitting auto-attack and watching your dps numbers rise or fall should affect your enjoyment of this game while raiding in exactly the same way it did before the patch: not at all.

Most classes have pretty much 1 standard raid role...sometimes just hitting auto attack and listening to directions. welcome to classic eq.

at least monks get a semi-unique role as pullers for raids.

[hammertime7795]

Backstab accounts for about 35-40% of a L60 rogue's DPS. Main hand is ~40% and offhand is about 20%. Numbers pulled from memory of ALOT of pre-patch parses.If you think a nerf to 60% of my damage is very little, yeah... Not excited to see the new numbers.

However, I do think I read that mobs are more dangerous now? That's fantastic. I loved getting destroyed when I played bad on live. Rogues were mainly fun to play because of that risk.

PS: I think double backstab is tied to double attack as well, so it might be impacting rogue damage across the board.

I think you are overestimating backstab a bit but not much. I don't know why people think that the majority of rogue damage comes from backstab. Velious weapons increase rogue dps a huge ammount and are still capped at 15damage.

[Elf_scout]

This is a thread about monks, but I play a 40 SK and it seems to me that I dish out less melee damage than I used to. I don't have parses now/before patch to compare, so this could just be my imagination, therefore I have to ask have other SK's noticed this as well?

[Cecily]

Here's an old plane of sky clear over the course of 135 mobs.

http://i.imgur.com/6AXqoFU.png

%: 41 pierce, 34 backstab, 25 slash.

It's helpful to think of rogues as warriors with a nice kick button. Warriors actually do very good damage. It'd just that Backstab is a moderate sum of extra damage piled on to what a warrior could do. Main / offhand ratios are where most of our damage comes from, by far.

[falendar]

Backstab accounts for about 35-40% of a L60 rogue's DPS. Main hand is ~40% and offhand is about 20%. Numbers pulled from memory of ALOT of pre-patch parses.If you think a nerf to 60% of my damage is very little, yeah... Not excited to see the new numbers.

However, I do think I read that mobs are more dangerous now? That's fantastic. I loved getting destroyed when I played bad on live. Rogues were mainly fun to play because of that risk.

PS: I think double backstab is tied to double attack as well, so it might be impacting rogue damage across the board.

yes, that is a large portion of their dps, they are the least effected by this, I do not believe double attack is tied to bs but if someone has concrete proof lemme know. monks do about 90% of their dps through straight attacks and 10% from flying kick. warriors are probably 95% maybe 90 through kicks/ripostes. rangers are probably in the 85-90% range although i don' know if they use any dmg spells on targets at this point in the game. so when rogues can shrug 40% of their total dmg done on an ability that is huge when their is a dw/da nerf it will affect them only a little compared to everyone else.

[hammertime7795]

Yeah you were saying 35-40. I think its more like 33-37. Just a bit lower than you were saying. I raided as a rogue from classic to TSS and backstab was always around 1/3 of overall dps at the start. Some xpacs it was a bit higher some lower. SOV its a lower % but rogues overall dps was probably the highest compared to other classes of any xpac. Rogues are king dps in velious by far. Or were back in the day anyway.

[QuantumZebra]

geared monks have been reduced from super saiyan 4 goku to neo from the matrix

sad day

lmao

[webrunner5]

What great super crazy fun unique role do you think you are missing out on?


Most classes have pretty much 1 standard raid role...sometimes just hitting auto attack and listening to directions. welcome to classic eq.

at least monks get a semi-unique role as pullers for raids.

I remember sitting on a hill with 50 others on raids because they didn't need that many groups. Unless you were the Main Tank, head healer, main puller for the guild good luck even getting a swing in. So raiding on average is not all it is made up to be here or back in the day but for a few select people. And only because they put a shitpot full of time into it and are willing to be on the Batphone crap. :eek:

[webrunner5]

highest compared to other classes of any xpac. Rogues are king dps in velious by far. Or were back in the day anyway.

I think a charmed Enchanter pet may make you think twice about your statement. :rolleyes: Or even a Mage epic pet also. I have seen Mage pets in KC and Seb soloing a add in a group and killing it quicker or as fast as the rest of the group on the original mob.

[squarez]

I would love to see new parses on weapons for monks and an update to: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwLk00fzuQQMcElKYTJtaGVsanM/edit

I honestly feel like the epic/SoS combo is not very strong now, I've noticed keeping both hands empty being an increased amount of dps in terms of times between breaks in killing mobs. Might just be getting lucky though...

[fastboy21]

I think a charmed Enchanter pet may make you think twice about your statement. :rolleyes: Or even a Mage epic pet also. I have seen Mage pets in KC and Seb soloing a add in a group and killing it quicker or as fast as the rest of the group on the original mob.

It depends on the encounter, but I'm pretty sure my wizard was able to top the DPS lists on some fights in velious as well, particularly in ToV with dragonbane and belly casters.

[Daldaen]

Some fights have ridiculous AC but minimal resists.

Statue in Kael for example. Once you get a full work up of Debuffs on him, casters can land nukes for full. Melee have average hits between 10-30 due to his huge AC which isn't nearly as debuff able as caster resists.

WizardQuest is imminent friends, I hope your guild Chardoks enough up before Winter arrives.

[Jimjam]

Are off hand procs more desirable now?

I know the proc check can succeed for the off hand even when the dual wield check fails.

On the subject of that, is this intended? When my toons get dual wield I normally put a proc weapon in the off hand because for the first few dozen skill points it seems you are more likely to proc with the off hand than actually swing with it!

[Nirgon]

Some fights have ridiculous AC but minimal resists.

Statue in Kael for example. Once you get a full work up of Debuffs on him, casters can land nukes for full. Melee have average hits between 10-30 due to his huge AC which isn't nearly as debuff able as caster resists.

WizardQuest is imminent friends, I hope your guild Chardoks enough up before Winter arrives.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XFLQBUDa0uw/hqdefault.jpg

[apio]

yeah I find it pathetic he is delaying monk changes to ''get back at people that wronged him'' just shows what kind of baby he is. And to all the people who think I am mad, I don't even play here anymore, which makes this all even more entertaining :D

[Conscript]

yeah I find it pathetic he is delaying monk changes to ''get back at people that wronged him'' just shows what kind of baby he is. And to all the people who think I am mad, I don't even play here anymore, which makes this all even more entertaining :D

Oh..

One of THOSE people :rolleyes:

[koros]

That analysis Torven made is outstanding. I was under the impression that PC duel wield/double attack rates were previously determined to be a function of skill and level and that NPCs followed a different model. Has that been disproven somewhere?

[Calibretto]

yeah I find it pathetic he is delaying monk changes to ''get back at people that wronged him'' just shows what kind of baby he is. And to all the people who think I am mad, I don't even play here anymore, which makes this all even more entertaining :D

Never said you were mad. We said you were an ungrateful douche. We also do not care what game you are playing. (or not playing)

[holsteinrx7]

wait how did monks get nerfed?

[Rayzor84]

wait how did monks get nerfed?

Read the thread, the nerfs are stated multiple times.

[Haynar]

I dont remember changing dual weild and double attack rates based on skill. I changed stuff that was based on level. Which i originally assumed was for NPCs.

So I would have to look at the code to see what is done for clients. It is probably different than npcs.

So I would guess the the big monk nerf could be someone making stuff up.

H

[koros]

I dont remember changing dual weild and double attack rates based on skill. I changed stuff that was based on level. Which i originally assumed was for NPCs.

So I would have to look at the code to see what is done for clients. It is probably different than npcs.

So I would guess the the big monk nerf could be someone making stuff up.

H

Something gets changed globally, mid level monks cry nerf. Classic as hell.

[Rayzor84]

I dont remember changing dual weild and double attack rates based on skill. I changed stuff that was based on level. Which i originally assumed was for NPCs.

So I would have to look at the code to see what is done for clients. It is probably different than npcs.

So I would guess the the big monk nerf could be someone making stuff up.

H

This is a big assumption though man.

I didn't just run and create a thread after my first 2 dmg hit. I thought it was me getting unlucky with the RNG. So I asked 6 different monks (and had 2 or more tell me after posting this thread) that they noticed it too and thought it was just them as well.

A couple monks is a coincidence. But more and more are noticing the same thing, and the only ones mocking the issue are non monks and 60 monks withe fantastic gear. Normal non twinked monks DO notice the difference, and it was significant enough to be obvious to all of us.

[koros]

This is a big assumption though man.

I didn't just run and create a thread after my first 2 dmg hit. I thought it was me getting unlucky with the RNG. So I asked 6 different monks (and had 2 or more tell me after posting this thread) that they noticed it too and thought it was just them as well.

A couple monks is a coincidence. But more and more are noticing the same thing, and the only ones mocking the issue are non monks and 60 monks withe fantastic gear. Normal non twinked monks DO notice the difference, and it was significant enough to be obvious to all of us.

How would a 2 damage hit have anything to do with duel wield or double attack?

[Rayzor84]

How would a 2 damage hit have anything to do with duel wield or double attack?

It was figurative, and not at all the point.

[maahes]

Shaman is the plural of shaman. With gear shaman are pretty uber in velious but monks/rogues are pretty badass too. If you think pulling is bad you wont like playing a shaman.

You must be talking canni dance? Why I am always hesitant to play a shaman. LOL>

[captnamazing]

looks like it's time for a new main, tofusin!

[Widan]

Does anyone have any actual parses from before and after the patch or are you just going to fucking whine about it?

[Rayzor84]

Does anyone have any actual parses from before and after the patch or are you just going to fucking whine about it?

Honestly with everything I have to do aside from EQ atm digging up parses and creating new ones isn't up there on my list. I'll go by what I and others have observed, and someone with more experience and time can derive the dps data.

[Cecily]

Honestly with everything I have to do aside from EQ atm digging up parses and creating new ones isn't up there on my list. I'll go by what I and others have observed, and someone with more experience and time can derive the dps data.

Then why are you posting so much, dps monk?

[Rayzor84]

Then why are you posting so much, dps monk?

Posting can be done anywhere via smartphone. Parsing and playing eq cannot.

Not sure why this is difficult, must be a troll.

[Cecily]

Just saying maybe you shouldn't be the one to champion monk's dps getting nerfed.

[Rayzor84]

Just saying maybe you shouldn't be the one to champion monk's dps getting nerfed.

So I can't have an opinion according to you? No one forced u to post in this thread or even to read it. Pls go.

Your comment has been noted, but subsequently disregarded. Appreciate the bump though.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

So I can't have an opinion according to you? No one forced u to post in this thread or even to read it. Pls go.

See the guild tag? Good indicator that the post will be bitchy/meaningless. Luckily this one makes it all rainbow colored so you notice right away and can just scroll past it.

[Rayzor84]

See the guild tag? Good indicator that the post will be bitchy/meaningless. Luckily this one makes it all rainbow colored so you notice right away and can just scroll past it.

Lol, I wasn't going to go there but it's all true.

[Zliz]

Heh, I also thought to myself the other day that perhaps nothing was changed. As I mentioned earlier, I noticed zero difference at level 44.

Fair enough though OP; crying nerf based on fluffy observations is classic. ;)

[derpcake]

Its all short term anyway.

I am sure Haynar will be properly making monks the gods they were in classic velious!

[Raev]

A couple monks is a coincidence. But more and more are noticing the same thing, and the only ones mocking the issue are non monks and 60 monks withe fantastic gear. Normal non twinked monks DO notice the difference, and it was significant enough to be obvious to all of us.

Monks were not nerfed; mobs were buffed. Therefore you are weaker relative to them than you were before. And because higher level mobs got buffed more, "60 monks withe fantastic gear" (interesting contraction there) are even more ineffective. Everyone who sits there taking hits from a mob got nerfed relatively speaking. It's called classic EQ; people aren't supposed to walk around blowing stuff up solo. Go find a shaman or something.

Fair enough though OP; crying nerf based on fluffy observations is classic.

Yep; lets just let this thread die.

[Lucia Moonglow]

Wait, so...NPCs got buffed, some monk noticed he wasn't soloing as effectively, and without any parsing, without any math, he just JUMPED straight to the conclusion that his class specifically got nerfed?

Wow....way to fail on that one, chief.

[Rayzor84]

Wait, so...NPCs got buffed, some monk noticed he wasn't soloing as effectively, and without any parsing, without any math, he just JUMPED straight to the conclusion that his class specifically got nerfed?

Wow....way to fail on that one, chief.

Why supply math when you can't even read? I never said anything in the op about not being able to solo as effectively.

This is one reason I don't deal with neckbeards. U sit in ur mom's basement (at age 30+) eating taco bell, demanding proof of something observed in a game that's over 15 years old with a small niche following. I'm not proposing an error with solving the schroedinger equation, I'm pointing put an obvious observable difference. If u want to spend the time parsing the numbers then be my guest, but it's not that important to me.

[Conscript]

This is one reason I don't deal with neckbeards. U sit in ur mom's basement (at age 30+) eating taco bell, demanding proof of something observed in a game that's over 15 years old with a small niche following.

Makes fun of players for playing a game that is 15 years old... while playing a game that is 15 years old.

[Rararboker]

You must not be aware of EQ's rich history! You know, it was so common for people to do just that (jump to conclusions after patches) that it became a running joke of "did they nerf jboot runspeed?" because it was claimed so often, with no proof to back it up.

The more you know.

[Conscript]

http://i.imgur.com/RPYuiwM.jpg