Spells: root problems killing my guild [Archive]

Isoroku

12-14-2014, 02:48 PM

recent changes to root have all but fucked the smaller guilds. prepatch root didnt land and smaller teams could go in and have a fighting chance.

recent patch has all but crippled small groups and favors heavily a zerg guild.

pre patch if i wanted to zone 3 people into 8, that was a viable option, we'd pvp get in get out. now i run my 3 people in 8, and we are all tash and rooted and dead. This isn't pvp.

beyond what you think is classic or how it should work, you are basically saying fuck you to smaller guilds who don't want to mass recruit in order to compete you have to think about the bigger picture when you put in resist changes like this.

we need this reverted to old root system asap. there is no fine line here, simply put we need roots not to land and quickly. I'm not going to be able to keep my guild here when the other guild has 5x the active enchanters.

This needs to be emergency reverted to old patch, yesterday. you are going to bleed people very quickly. I can no longer log in and pvp if i dont have a equal raid force of enchanters and shamans.

edit: my entire BiS top tier krew has already started playing new games. The only oldschool "God's Work" left is me and jupe and a few casual people. And my guild is shrinking by the second. Noone can log in and have fun anymore. its root root root root dead.

Colgate

12-14-2014, 05:28 PM

Infectious

12-14-2014, 05:32 PM

So whats your bug? Where are the logs? When did this happen? Who it happen against? How are you gona post in bugs when you posted nothing but.... Root sticks. Our 3 people cant kill 8 people?

I hope you understand why this post should be deleted/removed from bugs.

Nirgon

12-14-2014, 06:20 PM

agree also

blind/stun/root/snare/whirl are crazy atm

bard dots land on 140+ of said resist

shock of lightning and chaotic feedback need to almost always hit

Shit'd be about perfect if all that was changed which is truly saying something :)

Throndor

12-14-2014, 06:32 PM

OMG Its not entirely meleequest with the recent changes. This is an outrage. Casters should be harmless speed bumps. I repeat, casters having a fighting chance in PVP is an outrage this much be patched immediately.

JackFlash

12-14-2014, 06:33 PM

Clearly a well thought out post by a well respected guild leader.....

Not to say there isn't a problem. But this isn't the way to approach it.

SamwiseRed

12-14-2014, 09:28 PM

OP presents no evidence. I am not saying this isnt a problem, I am saying file a proper bug report. MR is working great without debuffs.

just casted root on myself over 50 times. resisted everytime with 100 mr. hmm mr def working without debuffs so the few who have said its completely broken need to sober up.

http://i.imgur.com/8CTdx4s.png

http://i.imgur.com/4R7q54N.png

need to test with tash and such still. i also need to test with roots who have no dmg modifier (chanter, wiz, ect) to see if there is a diff. someone else test this shit. sow actually faded btw in screenshots, i was never rooted in case someone wants to be e-detective.

now if only someone had a chanter or sham to test out roots while debuffed and still over 100MR. if only there was some way to test this....

Bazia

12-14-2014, 10:42 PM

its all crying from rogues who were so used to rushing 1v8 with ZERO chance of getting caught or killed

to bad so sad the shit was beyond broken before where monks and rogues were 1v8'ing getting 2 kills and plugging at 80% hp with no risks at all

you have an enc shortage because everyone wanted to exploit the fuck out of the fact rogues were broken as hell and unstoppable monsters

"wah wah make rogues gods again or were not going to play not being able to solo 6 non rogues is no fun"

Bazia

12-14-2014, 11:04 PM

even funnier that the op is the one who told me prepatch that playing an enc was a waste of time because only 3 classes were viable in pvp and playing anything else was stupid

pras other classes being a thing

Crazycloud

12-15-2014, 12:32 AM

OP presents no evidence. I am not saying this isnt a problem, I am saying file a proper bug report. MR is working great without debuffs.

now if only someone had a chanter or sham to test out roots while debuffed and still over 100MR. if only there was some way to test this....

Would like to see 50 fetters and see the difference on root lvl difference

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 12:58 AM

100% of my deaths besides maybe like 1 or 2 post patch are because of root and debuff quest but I still play and get kills *shrug*

Smedy

12-15-2014, 04:08 AM

i agree

smaller guilds wishing to compete for high end raid targets on red99 simply cannot compete with the current resist code

however, making threads like this is pointless and only serves to probably piss off the few developers that have already helped us out and fixed these issues while they wait for rogean to patch the server

these changes were already stated to not be intentional

pras colgate keeping it real

trolls like bazia and other people have openly trolled the staff into thinking that tash (a 0.5 second unresistable spell) should be the determining factor who wins the pvp, it's fucking dumber than anything i've ever seen.

If haynar got burnt out right now this server might just die because of this resist patch, i'd say revert the changes on the resist for now and keep the hitbox small, obviously the resist code is more complex than haynar first though and modifying it didn't result in the results nirgon or colgate was aiming towards.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 05:06 AM

Saying rogues/monks/wizards were 1v6'ing or 3v12'ing before with zero risk is not trolling and was completey true

I also think the "small crew should be able to fight large numbers" point is dumb, if a small crew of ridiculously OP classes should be able to fight a much larger force of "normal" classes whats the point of recruiting and spending weeks and weeks gearing and helping new players to join your guild?

Asking for classes not to be balanced specifically so smaller groups can all play 2-3 OP classes and compete is dumb, if they want to compete they can build a force and challenge their rivals.

If they don't want to gear and teach new players or guildmates then they can be satisfied with just being 6-12 dudes and only being capable of accomplishing certain things.

When in any 6-12 v 6-12 man fight "How many rogues / t staff monks do they have" being the ONLY relevant factor to consider before engaging something is wrong and broken.

With debuffs being a thing SKs/RNGs/NECs are more useful now because they can snare if the person is debuffed and doesnt pumice/cure it, BRD's are more useful since they can use mezzes. CLR/PAL stuns are a thing. ENCs/SHMs/sMAG are no longer non factors because of debuffs. These are classes you never see people "Maining" or PVPing with because they were so incredibly limited in PVP. (People with very high MR or players with magic resist buffs are still not CC'able when tashed btw)

The debuff boost has helped a huge amount of other classes go from "Not worth playing reroll a rogue nonfactor" status to having a place in daily pvp and I enjoy that alot of my friends that aren't MNKs/ROGs are now pvping more that they don't feel completely useless like they did before.

Fix the stupid blinds and whirls and leave the rest alone so everyone's class can have a role in pvp instead of just getting disgustingly shit on by the same 2 classes every damn fight.

Just my 2 cents

Bazia

12-15-2014, 05:32 AM

Population still going up since the patch, and it's been nice not having to tell new players at level 55 that if they ever want to be relevant in pvp they need to reroll because they didn't pick one of only 3 viable pvp classes in the game. (Before a lot just quit when they realized this was true)

Burgerking

12-15-2014, 06:48 AM

All I'm gonna say is I played Rallos Kunark and Sullon Velious era. There was like 4-5 melee's tops ranked in the top 100.

HERE for the past few years it's Melee, Melee, Melee, pretty much 95% melee's all ranked in the top 100 at 60 range, hmmm I wonder why?

Because on live when melee's started to attain full immunity to spells they increased debuffs. This is 15 years later with 3 years of kunark, every secret of the game is known every quest every piece of gear and people go from 1 to 60 in 2 months time some ever faster.

So we should delete every CC effect because melee's don't like being rooted? LOL what do casters do then TANK melee's? Or just flee from melee's like we've been forced to do for years.

Never seen anyone complain when it was rogue poison bang fuck dead in under 7 seconds. For some reason that shit was cool. But a Rogue having to use cure pots for tash and pumice for malo is unfucking acceptable. Even tho we all gotta carry cure pots or we snared and dead to rogues in seconds.

So we should have to all carry cure pots OR DIE!, but they shouldn't have to carry shit. Meanwhile they also want to be immune to every spell but LURE, and lifetap AS WELL AS increasing the hit boxes LOL, even tho damage is still set 2x higher than live lol.

So make a choice u want your live damage and die to druids dmg shields or you want crazy town dmg and carry pumices and cure pots?

I know you want everything But I'm Burgerking and you had it your way for 2 years.

heartbrand

12-15-2014, 08:28 AM

Got fettered at 141mr after tash (was over 200 before). Sorry but that isn't Classic. I may as well wear hp gear in every slot.

quido

12-15-2014, 08:41 AM

re-root and contest

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:21 AM

Got fettered at 141mr after tash (was over 200 before). Sorry but that isn't Classic. I may as well wear hp gear in every slot.

You either had more debuffs than just tash or your exaggerating.

I have fought feen multiple times who has shittier gear then you and he was completely immune to CC even when tashed.

I get tashed all the time and I only run around at about 175 MR and I never get rooted or CC'd unless it's malo + tash or I get pelled so much that my GMR gets removed and it brings me down to 120 MR.

Doesn't add up.

Platexchange

12-15-2014, 10:22 AM

Tash and Malo should be viable pvp options. On live we had to debuff targets just to kill them. I will agree the threshold is messed up. If you are sitting at 120mr after a tash or Malo you shouldn't be getting rooted easily still.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:26 AM

People are exaggerating I literally never get CC'd at 175 MR even after a debuff unless it's Malosini which I routinely resist or I have been pelled so extensively that my GMR is gone bringing me down to 120 MR.

If the "I have 200 MR and I got tashed and now everything lands" bullshit was true I'd have WAY more deaths considering I don't even travel around with 180 none the less 200+.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:35 AM

Before Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/NrrHP7M.jpg?1

After Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/9kn2bxK.jpg?1

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:40 AM

Got fettered at 141mr after tash (was over 200 before). Sorry but that isn't Classic. I may as well wear hp gear in every slot.

I had 165mr fetter landed 5/7 times I wasn't tashed or malod also the person casting was blue con aka lower level

As my gear varies and it depends what im wearing I can run around 175 MR unbuffed, 1 tash and I am an enchanters slave, root lands 9/10 times, blind often first cast, even bard mez..shouldn't be this way if im stacking MR to the max imo.

Yeah, okay sure

SamwiseRed

12-15-2014, 11:05 AM

ya id like to see some prof. according to ooc everyone is rooted 24/7 yet not a single screenshot exists? my chanter routinely has root resisted (regular root) against non twinks even after tash. why is this not working for me :(

Nirgon

12-15-2014, 12:44 PM

Samwise, I can count on people get fettered 50% of the tash after being tashed

Gaanon (Stasis monk) has robe of azure sky and all kinds of shit... we tashed him and I'd say even 75% of fetters hit him

SamwiseRed

12-15-2014, 02:00 PM

i just wanna see some tests done. tash someone to where they are still above 120+ and chain fetter on them. it would be easier to see how bad the problem is with prof. it is a big problem if true but we cant just change things without evidence.

also i know this sounds silly but does first cast have a better chance to land? when i started lowering my MR seems like the first cast would land but i would resist the rest. was odd but probably just RNG.

Burgerking

12-15-2014, 02:14 PM

i agree

smaller guilds wishing to compete for high end raid targets on red99 simply cannot compete with the current resist code

however, making threads like this is pointless and only serves to probably piss off the few developers that have already helped us out and fixed these issues while they wait for rogean to patch the server

these changes were already stated to not be intentional

WTF are you talking here, you never played classic dude you were 6, YOU NEVER PLAYED CLASSIC!

Samwise, I can count on people get fettered 50% of the tash after being tashed

Gaanon (Stasis monk) has robe of azure sky and all kinds of shit... we tashed him and I'd say even 75% of fetters hit him

It's called people be lying about how high their MR is. Azure robe is 15 MR doesn't prove his MR is high enough to resist fetter debuffed. If I have to carry poison pots for every rogue he can carry poison pots for tash. Or get the multiple other items that remove tash in game that can be quested by a lvl 30.

Nirgon

12-15-2014, 02:41 PM

You realize by just having 3-4 more people at a mass pvp fight its going to result in a win because of the extra warm bodies spamming roots

35 vs 40 used to have a chance, not anymore

Blind/fetter stuff aside and a few ultra minor things.. I am still in favor of the changes

You should at least have to dispel their resist magic, that isn't asking too much

But tash->perma blind is too damn much with 0 dispelling

Bazia

12-15-2014, 02:42 PM

i just wanna see some tests done. tash someone to where they are still above 120+ and chain fetter on them.

Look at my screenshots above

Bazia

12-15-2014, 02:45 PM

You realize by just having 3-4 more people at a mass pvp fight its going to result in a win because of the extra warm bodies spamming roots

35 vs 40 used to have a chance, not anymore

Have high MR or MR buff before PVP, don't get rooted, profit

Also why has no one here mentioned that root was nerfed to fuck as in if a melee hits a guy one or two times it immediately breaks?

Grimjaw

12-15-2014, 03:59 PM

Before Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/NrrHP7M.jpg?1

After Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/9kn2bxK.jpg?1

Haynar already posted somewhere that the server-side MR reduction is actually larger than the MR reduction that you see on the client. Therefore your MR is actually lower according to the server.

Also I was chain fettered with a tash. it sux.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 04:08 PM

im showing even if ur tashed u cant be fettered if you are wearing good MR or have some kind of MR buff

time to stop wearing a ton of FR and put on that MR

also relevant:

Greater Null Potion

http://wiki.project1999.com/images/Item_692.png

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 07:59 PM

root isn't broken tash is, there is an 100% BONUS to Debuffs....there isn't even supposed to be a bonus in Kunark, the bonus comes into the game in velious and the bonus is only 50%. Another thing is its fucked up client side, I get around 200+ with GRM and when I get tash'd it shows me at around 160 MR and I feel safe ya know? Then root lands 7/7. I agree that root needs to be a spell that is effective...but when people are actually casting shit like blind and whirl and landing it first try with just 1 debuff..that's absurd..All the shamans ive talked to Bangan, BK, Bonk all admitted that blind was NEVER on there spell bar pre patch. Im not saying it needs to be completely nerfed but if I am sacrificing my stat gear and other resists and going solely into MR 100% there should be a VERY little chance I should get rooted, even with 1 debuff.
That's just what I think, I think those who don't stack MR should suffer, but at this point it doesn't matter what MR you have.

Haynar

12-15-2014, 08:08 PM

I made some changes to debuff bonus. And some spells. Waiting on next patch. Not reading the whine-fest threads. Waiting for next patch.

H

Infectious

12-15-2014, 08:13 PM

I made some changes to debuff bonus. And some spells. Waiting on next patch. Not reading the whine-fest threads. Waiting for next patch.

H

Nice!!!! If any live testing is needed, put out he word and lets do this.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 09:01 PM

Another thing is its fucked up client side, I get around 200+ with GRM and when I get tash'd it shows me at around 160 MR and I feel safe ya know? Then root lands 7/7. .

Before Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/NrrHP7M.jpg?1

After Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/9kn2bxK.jpg?1

Rag confirmed liar with proof

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 10:14 PM

Rag confirmed liar with proof

Can easily be faked, I would be willing to test this with you ingame.
With my current setup I carry about 162 MR and almost allways get rooted while tashed

Isoroku

12-15-2014, 10:24 PM

I made some changes to debuff bonus. And some spells. Waiting on next patch. Not reading the whine-fest threads. Waiting for next patch.

H

sorry if i came off as whining haynar, just a little upset im losing my guild to a patch and not to holocaust.

Also everything you have done is great, hitboxes, resist changes, all great. but i think something got lost when it comes to debuffs.

my 60 BiS cleric minus crown of rile 220mr with a tash is able to be root locked by twerk. Ask Durabael he was there he saw it.

and i realize when a patch comes is not up to you so when im talking about needing the patch badly im not talking directly to you. But seriously I really would love to see red break with tradition and not leave a broken patch on the server, i rather see red server taken down until fixes can happen.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:26 PM

Can easily be faked, I would be willing to test this with you ingame.
With my current setup I carry about 162 MR and almost allways get rooted while tashed

so your saying I photoshopped this? lol

show us some screenshots proving your claims, instead of exaggerating and lying all over the forums

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:27 PM

Before Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/NrrHP7M.jpg?1

After Tash:

http://i.imgur.com/9kn2bxK.jpg?1

my 60 BiS cleric minus crown of rile 220mr with a tash is able to be root locked

Not true I am not root lockable at 173 nonetheless 220 as your claiming, and unlike most of you exaggerating I actually provide SS's to prove it.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:40 PM

Tried again in case of fluke @ 170 MR, here are the results:

Before Tashania

http://i.imgur.com/rOz6g4m.png?1

After Tashania

http://i.imgur.com/FnEGLtI.jpg?1

Tashed @ 170 MR 13/13 resists on fetter

Stop lyin yall

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 10:46 PM

so your saying I photoshopped this? lol

show us some screenshots proving your claims, instead of exaggerating and lying all over the forums

Your trying too hard to defend broken NON classic mechanics that only seem to benefit you, Tash is lowering resists more then it is supposed to, and isn't showing the proper MR value client side. Like I said without GMR Im at around 160 ish, and with GRM around 200+ I am allways rooted on the first try after being tash'd and im sure you can confirm this instead of lieing, you've been one of the main ones spamming root on me and not even bothering to pell beforehand because you know how broken it is.
Its like arguing with Burgerking on how he thinks blinding people in lvl 60 pvp is classic LOL

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 10:48 PM

Make a test using base MR without GMR Before and after tash'd
Edit: Im sure it wouldn't be hard to wait until the root resists get streaky to then pick that particular set of data to post

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:52 PM

There is no streak here, it shows directly from when I am tashed until the fetter casts with no space in between. Sadly I can only stretch the window so far. You are obviously lying about the amount of MR you are wearing and that is why you are not providing any kind of SS's despite the fact half the server has enc farm bots and you could easily arrange to have SS's proving your claims.

http://i.imgur.com/9kn2bxK.jpg?1

Bring proof or stfu imo

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 10:54 PM

There is no streak here, it shows directly from when I am tashed until the fetter casts with no space in between. Sadly I can only stretch the window so far.

http://i.imgur.com/9kn2bxK.jpg?1

Bring proof or stfu imo

You can make streaks and have separate data at any time, what stops you from repeating that pattern until the data pleases you? lol not sure if serious.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 10:59 PM

I don't understand what you are saying I can at anytime fetter myself an unlimited amount of times while tashed at that MR and resist it.

I could time stamp and do it right now again if that would please you.

You have yet to provide any kind of proof to your claims, which can easily be arranged. Think it's obvious to tell who's exaggerating here.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 11:15 PM

Just tashed Croup who was wearing 171 and he resisted 7 straight fetters, you guys are so full of shit it is ridiculous.

SamwiseRed

12-15-2014, 11:22 PM

here is the thing. noone remembers when they resist a root but when root lands and you die, its the fuckin end of the world. imagine if someone posted a bug report everytime root was resisted after tashed or malod lol.

SamwiseRed

12-15-2014, 11:24 PM

here my problem with all this. changing resists on roots affects me none. root is a last ditch effort to keep someone from plugging. this indirectly affects me because melees will once again don full DPS gear because youll only need 50 mr to resist everything.

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 11:29 PM

still waiting for you to screenshot rotting yourself fully unbuffed before and after tash, let me know dawg

Bazia

12-15-2014, 11:37 PM

still waiting for you to screenshot rotting yourself fully unbuffed before and after tash, let me know dawg

Wearing 171 MR in gear as a caster is fairly difficult to achieve, if I was able to quickly acquire the gear needed I would do it.

I don't see what you're trying to say, that MR buffs are working better than they are suppose to?

Still waiting for you to post a SS of ANYTHING you have claimed.

Ragnaros

12-15-2014, 11:40 PM

still waiting zzzzzzzzzzzz, your basically claiming its supposed to take 170 to resist root
lawl.

Bazia

12-15-2014, 11:41 PM

So you're saying MR buffs are working too good?

I'm not understanding why not having an MR buff would matter if you were wearing the same amount in MR pieces?

Bazia

12-15-2014, 11:48 PM

still waiting zzzzzzzzzzzz, your basically claiming its supposed to take 170 to resist root
lawl.

I havent tried lower yet, actually ill try right now see where it seems to be the good spot to be safe from being CC'd while debuffed

Just refuting the lies you and Agatha were making about being 200+ and being root and tashed with proof, you know that thing that shows who the liars are.