"Classic" feeling shifting?

[sox7d]

Original -> Velious was extremely fun and memorable, however I had a ton of fun during PoP and LDoN as well in different ways. Now that we've had five years of classic shoved down our throats, I kind of get the same "good ol' days" feeling I had about Trilogy as I do with PoP/LDoN.

DAE?

[mickey182]

I understand why people liked those (and other) expansions. I can see some merit in them myself. However, in other ways I think they were the absolute end of the game, which is why I quit playing when they came out. It's one of those situations where change/compromise destroys the purpose/integrity.

I'd fully support a spinoff server that expanded the game to include another expansion or two (or more), built on the existing P99 code. I would never play on it, but I'd approve of it. I wouldn't support such changes here, however, and would stop playing should they ever be implemented.

[Bodybagger]

I'd fully support a spinoff server that expanded the game to include another expansion or two (or more), built on the existing P99 code. I would never play on it, but I'd approve of it. I wouldn't support such changes here, however, and would stop playing should they ever be implemented.

Shit is definitely Classic! lol

sounds like everyone on live when the expansions were actually launching haha

[mickey182]

Shit is definitely Classic! lol

sounds like everyone on live when the expansions were actually launching haha

Yes, but look at how that turned out: we left live, sony stopped getting our money and the game lost our contribution, and we all came here (this many years later) to get the experience we preferred. So what we can take away from the thread is that it IS similar to it was...some want more, many don't and will leave if it happens, and devs CANNOT serve both ideologies. We're either P99, or we're Live2.0.

[Lunababy]

Luclin is my cut off point. New models, world ports, easy leveling. Not the same game anymore.

[loramin]

I think if you ask most people on this server they will say "I quit when Y expansion came out, so I'd like to see a server with every expansion up to X". Now since people tended to leave in waves after certain expansions (Velious, Luclin, PoP and LDoN), those are the most popular choices. In general though I don't think there's any "right" answer to when the "classic era" ended because different people left at different times and thus miss different expansions.

But, here on P99 there is exactly one right answer: Velious. Rogean/Nilbog/anyone else who has a say in the matter hates Luclin, so this server will never include anything from Luclin (nor will any other server made by them). They've been very clear about this in their postings.

The only sad part to me is that if someone did want to make a Luclin/PoP/whatever server, they'll have to start with the crappy EQ Emulator base instead of the really awesome P99 base. Someday I hope the devs will find some way to allow others to build from their progress, but since they seem very much against the idea (to prevent cheating if nothing else) I don't see it ever happening.

[captnamazing]

I never belonged on the moon

[iruinedyourday]

Id be happy with a pre kunark server heh. nothing beats the classic classic art.. kunark is alright but classic classic is classic.

[Buellen]

To original poster.

No disrespect intended but their are other emulated server that have the content up to and past pop. Nothing says players who feel they want to progress beyond the set timeline of p1999 cannot move to those other emulated servers and just go through Luclin, pop, LOY or GOD.

I would honestly believe most players would leave P1999 if the devs altered their stated server end expansion. Not everyone would leave,but you would not have anywhere the same population that the server has. The server will get very crowded when Velious drops , but it will maintain a healthy population size through out its velious run.

[Jigawatts]

I'd be down for the addition of the PoP raids, without the monstrosity known as the "Plane of Knowledge".

[Leopaz]

though I played from the beginning, Luclin and PoP were definitely my favs. Gates burned me out, so by Omens I straight quit

[h4tch]

I would play PoP if Luclin didn't exist, and no PoK ports.

[webrunner5]

I still play live and have 3 toons level 100. Lot more toons less. I have a ton of fun on there even on the latest expansion because it is a new challenge.

I mean I like it a lot here and I play the Sleeper server also so pretty much the same as P1999. But I have been playing EQ since 2000. So it can get boring going to the same zones, same gear, so that is the reason I still play live. I have more people on friends list on Live than here. There are people I play with that I played with in 2000 yet on live.

But I am retired and have the time, so not knocking people that have limited time to play. I would probably just play on here if I was still working with a family. Live is a pretty big commitment to do all the quests to even get into the new zones. You can't just go to any zone without a lot of work involved like here. Well there is a few quests here like Seb and HS keys, but they are easy as hell compared to live to get. YMMV.

[Stormfists]

Well as a community I'm sure we have plenty of smart people, not me... but im sure someone / a group of somenoes could make our own custom planes P99 style once Velius endgame has been rinsed dry:

- Plane of Mischief
- Plane of War
- Plane of Disease
- Plane of Nightmare
- Plane of Earth

All in classic textures, with a sort of "layout" and "boss types" of the PoP/expansions - but actually decent, with a Fear/Hate/Growth feel to them. The thing is these MUST be raid zones only to avoid population dilution via more zones to group in.

This wouldnt affect the social side, or the casual groupers - just gives the server more depth and the feeling that there is still something to achieve rather than thudding the fleshy wall over and over in ToV which is what many of us will be doing in a year or twos time.

TLDR; a couple/few custom P99 raid zones with thoughts of post-classic expans but with classic feel/textures/behaviors.

TLFR; before anyone says "not classic", this servers stopped being classic pretty much after Kunark with all the custom tweaks.

[Secrets]

I still think EQ1 without the classic planes (Sky, Hate, Fear) would be a great server in itself if it never progressed past classic.

Realistically speaking, Velious and Kunark have very little content that reminds me of the style of content in the original release. When you found an item with stats in pre-Kunark, you either had to farm for days or go to Lower Guk/Nagafen's Lair - and even then, the two major dungeons felt out of place realistically speaking from a content perspective.

Prior to those dungeons, you had to farm all over the world to get your drops and gear as opposed to just two dungeons on the same continent. There was virtually no point in the many merchant-sold weaponry or classic crafted after getting a SSoY or one of the many other visible armor slot drops in both of those zones.

Maybe I just hold the newbie experience in high regards, but I still think it's a bit silly to have Mithril BPs dropping in Nagafen's Lair around the same time you'd probably make enough plat to make Fine Plate armor.

It's almost like two different developers had designed half of the content. It's weird. I really don't know how to explain it other than 80% of the content gets invalidated with Kunark, and there's so much of it in the game prior that gets overlooked.

[Secrets]

TLFR; before anyone says "not classic", this servers stopped being classic right about when my autofire was bannable lol.

That's not classic. In fact, they would have banned you back in 2000 given the chance because it's against the Verant EULA if they could detect it.

There was a period in classic where they could see processes running on your PC which got overturned by at-the-time consumer rights activists, so that's definitely classic.

[iruinedyourday]

I still think EQ1 without the classic planes (Sky, Hate, Fear) would be a great server in itself if it never progressed past classic.

Realistically speaking, Velious and Kunark have very little content that reminds me of the style of content in the original release. When you found an item with stats in pre-Kunark, you either had to farm for days or go to Lower Guk/Nagafen's Lair - and even then, the two major dungeons felt out of place realistically speaking from a content perspective.

Prior to those dungeons, you had to farm all over the world to get your drops and gear as opposed to just two dungeons on the same continent. There was virtually no point in the many merchant-sold weaponry or classic crafted after getting a SSoY or one of the many other visible armor slot drops in both of those zones.

Maybe I just hold the newbie experience in high regards, but I still think it's a bit silly to have Mithril BPs dropping in Nagafen's Lair around the same time you'd probably make enough plat to make Fine Plate armor.

It's almost like two different developers had designed half of the content. It's weird. I really don't know how to explain it other than 80% of the content gets invalidated with Kunark, and there's so much of it in the game prior that gets overlooked.

bless this post, so many yes, totally agree 100%

Its as obvious to me as if you were to look at the level design and art of Mistmoore or High Hold Keep and then look at Howling Stones or KC.. pre planer classic classic server would be my favorite thing in life.

[Tankdan]

Server was made with AAs disabled.. id imagine reverting back to AAs and coding the changes would take forever and not be doable in meaningful timeline.

To me, classic is Release till PoP. I realize thats a whole lot of expansions, but thats when I played EQ as a teenager, thats when EQ hit its prime as far as subscribers, thats EQ to me.

[myriverse]

My stepdad's still griping about them considering GnR and Black Crowes "classic rock."

[Mentathiel]

For my part, the issue with post-Velious content was that it made the world smaller. Right now, unless you are a wizard or druid, you can't jump across the continents and back without help. The current server population are friendly enough that you can usually get a port for a corpse-run and maybe even a rez if you are lucky, but a trip from Freeport to Qeynos is an adventure for me. Getting a port is a special treat or a necessary evil, not something I do regularly.

With SoL, Luclin suddenly became a transit hub and I can't imagine anyone ever needing to grab a port when you can just use Luclin. PoP was even worse; the PoK made even the run from Crushbone to Kaladim (with belts) redundant because you could teleport.

Were the newbie-armour quests kind of nice? Of course. Would I mind seeing beastlords? Not at all. Do I miss Vah-Shir? Yes. Is the Bazaar better than EC? Maybe, maybe not. Are those things worth the loss of the classic feeling? No, not to me...

As people have said, there are other servers who go beyond Velious or have variant rules like accelerated exp or higher drop rates. I mean, there's even Shards of Dalaya which is not even EQ as we know it. I play P1999 because I was happy in the SoV era and P1999 helps me recapture that era.

[fadetree]

I didn't care for luclin except for the AA's, but I liked PoP a lot. PoP without all the travel books would be perfect.

[Skinned]

I enjoyed Luclin, but it really did make most old world stuff obsolete, especially pre-expansion Everquest.

[Daldaen]

I enjoyed Luclin, but it really did make most old world stuff obsolete, especially pre-expansion Everquest.

Dunno how people figure this.

Classic EQ mobs had less HP, AC and hit for less.

The ONLY reason people say this is because it was easier to get a group in Paludal, 2 zones from the Nexus, than it was in Unrest.

That's one zone that is level 1-25.

The Luclin gear really didn't put all the old world stuff to shame. Even the alpha-Newbie armor didn't.

[Whirled]

Dunno how people figure this.

Classic EQ mobs had less HP, AC and hit for less.

The ONLY reason people say this is because it was easier to get a group in Paludal, 2 zones from the Nexus, than it was in Unrest.

That's one zone that is level 1-25.

The Luclin gear really didn't put all the old world stuff to shame. Even the alpha-Newbie armor didn't.


This was a shining point for us casual players with little time to play or off schedules. One could muster up a suit of these & not be clad in cloth/leather/naked til 40+

[Daldaen]

To be honest, that newbie stuff was just neat cause it gave you a armor graphic that was colored based on class and armor type. Level 10 warriors could have full plate that they earned themselves. It also gave you an incentive to stay in your starting area... Something P99ers are EXTREMELY unclassic in. Level 2 Iksars exping in East Commons. Stop it, it's ruining my immersion :(.

It gave like 2 WIS and 1 STA... That's it. They later upgraded it to be much more ridiculous.

But in its first implementation it was a fantastic addition to the game that really embodied the purpose of the game. NPC gives you a quest. You kill monsters and collect items. You get rewarded for completing the quest.

Really should've been in at the start IMO.

[Skinned]

Dunno how people figure this.

Classic EQ mobs had less HP, AC and hit for less.

The ONLY reason people say this is because it was easier to get a group in Paludal, 2 zones from the Nexus, than it was in Unrest.

That's one zone that is level 1-25.

The Luclin gear really didn't put all the old world stuff to shame. Even the alpha-Newbie armor didn't.

I remember running alts from 1-25 in just a few hours in Luclin newbie zones. Just throw on one of many readily available cheap weapons or whatnot, get super buffs that last for an hour (KEI comes to mind), and run through Paludal caves and the levels fly. I just thought that was much easier than running through Dagnor's Cauldron, the XP is very similar (not sure what kind of ZEM was actually on Paludal but it seemed off the charts), and it is much less risk than the basement or upstairs in Unrest overall. There were many other zones in Luclin like that. Great farming too...those grimling caves in the zone full of mushrooms adjacent to Hollowshade Moor are full of mobs that drop tons of stackable rune-like objects that sold to venders very well. Like gargoyle eyes on steroids.

I'm not anti-Luclin personally, I think much of it was a great expansion. To be fair though I never experienced the ultra-high end of it, like the Shissar or the Light Side of the Moon, so I can't comment on that. But I had fun. Beastlord is a great addition. I personally played through Luclin, PoP, and quit into LoY or whatever the pirate themed expansion was. I just wanted to try other MMOs, I'm pretty sure that was the beginning of my long romance with SWG.

[Whirled]

O sheesh... that creeping crud was no fun if you didnt have cure disease tho. Almost like it was designed to help your bind wounds skill as u teetered back & forth below 50% heh

[Duncon]

Is the Bazaar better than EC?

I think the only thing that has kept the economy from complete destruction is the lack of a bazaar. The pain in the ass that is EC keeps a lot of items off the market and a lot of plat in the banks. If that flooded in through easy 24/7 access to goods in a bazaar the whole thing would implode.

[Daldaen]

I think the only thing that has kept the economy from complete destruction is the lack of a bazaar. The pain in the ass that is EC keeps a lot of items off the market and a lot of plat in the banks. If that flooded in through easy 24/7 access to goods in a bazaar the whole thing would implode.

Bazaar was one of the best changes possible.

When you no longer have to sit trying to sell your junk for hours, and instead can AFK overnight and sell stuff, it is fantastic.

Bazaar would bring so much low-end gear into the system. Right now, most of those 50-100 plat items I get from level 30-50 areas aren't worth my time selling. Instead I will just vendor or destroy them. Having an avenue to dump them on a trader and AFK and they get magically sold is great.

Plus you don't have to directly deal with people who make lowball offers, people who undercut you or people who resell. Stuff still happens but because you're AFK it's all out of sight and out of mind. You sell it at your listed price or you don't sell it.

[Swish]

Bazaar was one of the best changes possible.

When you no longer have to sit trying to sell your junk for hours, and instead can AFK overnight and sell stuff, it is fantastic.

Bazaar would bring so much low-end gear into the system. Right now, most of those 50-100 plat items I get from level 30-50 areas aren't worth my time selling. Instead I will just vendor or destroy them. Having an avenue to dump them on a trader and AFK and they get magically sold is great.

Plus you don't have to directly deal with people who make lowball offers, people who undercut you or people who resell. Stuff still happens but because you're AFK it's all out of sight and out of mind. You sell it at your listed price or you don't sell it.

I'm all for the bazaar, but it has no place on P99 at this point in the timeline.

http://i.imgur.com/1gBWIug.gif

[Daldaen]

Correct!

Just saying it was one of the best changes to come to EQ ever.

[Duncon]

When you no longer have to sit trying to sell your junk for hours, and instead can AFK overnight and sell stuff, it is fantastic.

Bazaar would bring so much low-end gear into the system.

I hate EC, I think most folks do, but it is what keeps stuff off the market and makes it viable.

The only drain of wealth from this closed system is the stuff rotting in the banks. If stuff was easy to sell and you didn't have this drain the whole thing would be a complete write off.

[jolanar]

Nobody could ever agree on what it meant to be classic. Ever.

[Itap]

Bazaar was one of the best changes possible.

When you no longer have to sit trying to sell your junk for hours, and instead can AFK overnight and sell stuff, it is fantastic.

Bazaar would bring so much low-end gear into the system. Right now, most of those 50-100 plat items I get from level 30-50 areas aren't worth my time selling. Instead I will just vendor or destroy them. Having an avenue to dump them on a trader and AFK and they get magically sold is great.

Plus you don't have to directly deal with people who make lowball offers, people who undercut you or people who resell. Stuff still happens but because you're AFK it's all out of sight and out of mind. You sell it at your listed price or you don't sell it.

Lol, you know how ridiculous this sounds, right? You're playing an MMO, the entire point is to interact with other people. I loved the idea of the bazaar, but it removed the interaction between people entirely. You can compare the bazaar to PoK and the associated books, it removed a part of the game that required you to actually talk to people and have friends.

[jolanar]

Lowballing people who just want to sell their items and get out of EC as soon as possible is one of the things that makes it so great IMO.

[Glenzig]

Lol, you know how ridiculous this sounds, right? You're playing an MMO, the entire point is to interact with other people. I loved the idea of the bazaar, but it removed the interaction between people entirely. You can compare the bazaar to PoK and the associated books, it removed a part of the game that required you to actually talk to people and have friends.

Yup.

[Glenzig]

Lowballing people who just want to sell their items and get out of EC as soon as possible is one of the things that makes it so great IMO.

I always give in. Cause I can't stand wasting time selling stuff. It is an amazing part of classic eq that no other game has ever been able to reproduce though. So I can't hate it too much.

[Itap]

Some people aren't actually "lowballing" either, they are just extremely poor and are hoping to catch you on a good day. I've sold low level items for a fraction of its worth, just to hopefully help out a struggling new player.

[myriverse]

Lol, you know how ridiculous this sounds, right? You're playing an MMO, the entire point is to interact with other people. I loved the idea of the bazaar, but it removed the interaction between people entirely. You can compare the bazaar to PoK and the associated books, it removed a part of the game that required you to actually talk to people and have friends.
Of course, the reason these became necessary was the antisocial.

Level 2 Iksars exping in East Commons. Stop it, it's ruining my immersion :(.
Frakking traitorous bastards! FoB >>> EC.

[Daldaen]

Lol, you know how ridiculous this sounds, right? You're playing an MMO, the entire point is to interact with other people. I loved the idea of the bazaar, but it removed the interaction between people entirely. You can compare the bazaar to PoK and the associated books, it removed a part of the game that required you to actually talk to people and have friends.

There's one thing asking someone to group, exping or questing with someone.

It's another dealing with:

"That earring for 5k, lol man that's a piece of crap, I'll give you 3k"
"Aww 5k, I really only have 2765 plat, can ya do that?"
"Hey I'll take that earring for 500" - 2 min later - "WTS earring 700"

The same people who hated PoK books are the ones who didn't play porters. I play a 60 druid and 52 wizard. I'm almost never /role on either of them. I get request for pickups in Emerald Jungle or Unrest occasionally. I politely say nope, I'm busy. Most people understand and say thanks anyways. Cool. But sometimes you get the dude offering you 30 plat for the port and complaining when you don't feel compelled to travel 15min across Norrath to port them for less than a hill Giants worth of platinum.

Also PoK book complaining is the dumbest thing in the world on this server. People REGULARLY ask for a port from WC to Lavastorm or EC to SRo. It's 2 fucking zones. Run. But heaven forbid you could click a book and travel yourself. Instead you want to inconvenience someone else, spend their mana and time and quite often not pay them for it.

Don't get me wrong, I do port people, almost never accept plat, and SoW them on their way. The general population of this server however feels entitled to these services and in the same breath they ask for a port with, they will criticizes the very features that unburdened players like myself from providing them.

I don't have any issues porting friends or guildmates. However the "interaction" you refer to from getting a port from a random guy is basically non existent. 95%+ of my ports involve these tells:

"Can I get a port from X to Y"
"Thanks"

Occasionally:

"Sorry corpse run otherwise I'd donate"
Or
"You sure you don't want plat"

Often:

"Can I get a INSERT BUFFS HERE?"

Shit isn't interacting with me at all. You interact more with the guy at the liquor store or the woman at the grocery store scanning your items.

PS - Yes, I am salty of that argument consistently being made on these boards. No one gives a shit about talking to their porter, they just want their port.

[harnold]

Classic shoved down your throat? Get the hell out of here if you don't like it

[Taminy]

Honestly I've always had the classic feeling that classic was Velious OR Luclin. I'd play on a server that was up to PoP but no further and it wouldn't be my first choice - only because of the raids - everything else about PoP was stupid.

Flagging/Keying, PoK, faction being meaningless, excessive AAs... imo Luclin AAs were perfect (Luclin did have other problems though), enough to finally flesh out class roles but PoP AAs were just hamster wheeling. LDoN was even worse when it came to this. I remember it being billed as an expansion for casual players to get near raid quality items which they did, but it also added "needed" raid items for raiders. Aggro augments and armor augments for example, and it was just running the same crap over and over for those. The dungeons weren't even interesting either, killing orcs after I've been killing giants/dragons/gods... wtf. If LDoN had been an expansion like LoY with just content for lowbies/casuals/visual stuff it would have been ok, but the rest yuck. I guess you didn't really have to play it, and in fact I barely did :p then I quit when Gates came out.

[Itap]

There's one thing asking someone to group, exping or questing with someone.

It's another dealing with:

"That earring for 5k, lol man that's a piece of crap, I'll give you 3k"
"Aww 5k, I really only have 2765 plat, can ya do that?"
"Hey I'll take that earring for 500" - 2 min later - "WTS earring 700"

The same people who hated PoK books are the ones who didn't play porters. I play a 60 druid and 52 wizard. I'm almost never /role on either of them. I get request for pickups in Emerald Jungle or Unrest occasionally. I politely say nope, I'm busy. Most people understand and say thanks anyways. Cool. But sometimes you get the dude offering you 30 plat for the port and complaining when you don't feel compelled to travel 15min across Norrath to port them for less than a hill Giants worth of platinum.

Also PoK book complaining is the dumbest thing in the world on this server. People REGULARLY ask for a port from WC to Lavastorm or EC to SRo. It's 2 fucking zones. Run. But heaven forbid you could click a book and travel yourself. Instead you want to inconvenience someone else, spend their mana and time and quite often not pay them for it.

Don't get me wrong, I do port people, almost never accept plat, and SoW them on their way. The general population of this server however feels entitled to these services and in the same breath they ask for a port with, they will criticizes the very features that unburdened players like myself from providing them.

I don't have any issues porting friends or guildmates. However the "interaction" you refer to from getting a port from a random guy is basically non existent. 95%+ of my ports involve these tells:

"Can I get a port from X to Y"
"Thanks"

Occasionally:

"Sorry corpse run otherwise I'd donate"
Or
"You sure you don't want plat"

Often:

"Can I get a INSERT BUFFS HERE?"

Shit isn't interacting with me at all. You interact more with the guy at the liquor store or the woman at the grocery store scanning your items.

PS - Yes, I am salty of that argument consistently being made on these boards. No one gives a shit about talking to their porter, they just want their port.

I have a druid that is specifically for porting, so I understand the frustration. People bombarding you for ports, buffs, or rezzes? Shits classic, it happened back in the day, and still happening now, here. Once you start adding in "convenience" mechanics, you lose the feel of the game, imo. PoK books? Bazaar? Mercs? When do you draw the line?

When it comes to classic EQ, I'm either all in, or not at all.

[Mentathiel]

Technically, boats that go west out of Butcherblock Mountains is not classic, but we accept that fix. Maybe there is some room for changing some things without losing the classic feel...

[Bodybagger]

Luclin was always okay in my book minus Bazaar... I love EC Trading... bazaar was efficient as hell but man... I loved EC Trading. One of the most classic things about p99.

XP was so quick there though... honestly you could smash a character 1-30 without powerlevel or twinking in a day or two pretty easily by then... it got a bit absurd and rushed you through more than I cared for, but once you've experienced low end content dozens of times.... *shrug*

PoP was crazy with PoK wrecking port/spire/boat travel, the world got vastly smaller with PoK... once you bound there it was over. Nothing special about druid and wizard then as far as interactions go... that's sad. Missed the port service ads, the slight roleplaying that always goes along with hiring services of another class. The grind groups in planes were cool with new mobs and such and the gear got very good... level cap only up to 65 I think been so long... either way, not so bad.

When did berserkers come?

[Daldaen]

I have a druid that is specifically for porting, so I understand the frustration. People bombarding you for ports, buffs, or rezzes? Shits classic, it happened back in the day, and still happening now, here. Once you start adding in "convenience" mechanics, you lose the feel of the game, imo. PoK books? Bazaar? Mercs? When do you draw the line?

When it comes to classic EQ, I'm either all in, or not at all.

That's a fine position to have.

I just tire of the people who complain that PoK books made the world smaller, they reduced interaction with players and yet on this server expect me to port them to a zone 2 zones away, sow them and buff them. Especially if these are /role or /Anon people who have 0 problem hiding their class and never making themselves available to requests for assistance/interacting with other players. Yet will always send me requests for ports buffs or PLs.

PoP was the pinnacle of EQ. If there were a solid PoP locked server Id be there in a heartbeat. It makes me very sad that closed down Al'Kabor still. Would've easily paid a Strommhammer level subscription to play on that server even though it had a single patch and almost no support for the past year of its existence.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I hated EC trading with a passion because I played eq on basically a 486 and had to stare at the ground in order to get anywhere.

The bazaar also flooded the market with low level items. Something you don't see here.

[Itap]

The bazaar also flooded the market with low level items. Something you don't see here.

Perhaps you don't see them because people like myself just walk up the random new people and trade them items. Just gave away a green jade broadsword to a new barb warrior the other day in blackburrow. Id rather give it to someone who can use it than make the 100pp.

[Whirled]

I hated EC trading with a passion because I played eq on basically a 486 and had to stare at the ground in order to get anywhere.

The bazaar also flooded the market with low level items. Something you don't see here.

Yikes.. u brought back memories of CH'ing from F9 top view so the lag wasn't so bad, lol Thanks for the memory jogging!

[Daldaen]

Perhaps you don't see them because people like myself just walk up the random new people and trade them items. Just gave away a green jade broadsword to a new barb warrior the other day in blackburrow. Id rather give it to someone who can use it than make the 100pp.

This is part of the equation yes.

The other part is that those types of items rot, get destroyed, given to pets or sold to vendors because they aren't worth spending 2 hours in EC to sell. My personal favorite since the latest patch is just trade them to a charmed NPC and leave the zone. Let them discover a Green Jade Broadsword on a decaying skeleton.

However if there were a bazaar maybe they'd be worth the bag space to list on your trader overnight. Then newbies would have the ability to work towards buying some of these items.

There would still be people who give them away as well.

[Itap]

This is part of the equation yes.

The other part is that those types of items rot, get destroyed, given to pets or sold to vendors because they aren't worth spending 2 hours in EC to sell. My personal favorite since the latest patch is just trade them to a charmed NPC and leave the zone. Let them discover a Green Jade Broadsword on a decaying skeleton.

However if there were a bazaar maybe they'd be worth the bag space to list on your trader overnight. Then newbies would have the ability to work towards buying some of these items.

There would still be people who give them away as well.

You're right, people might be more inclined to sell 50-100pp items if they didn't have to actively sell the items.

[Taminy]

I just tire of the people who complain that PoK books made the world smaller, they reduced interaction with players and yet on this server expect me to port them to a zone 2 zones away, sow them and buff them. Especially if these are /role or /Anon people who have 0 problem hiding their class and never making themselves available to requests for assistance/interacting with other players. Yet will always send me requests for ports buffs or PLs.


I'm utterly anti PoK books and I never bug druids or wizards for ports with /tell unless they are advertising their services or in dial a port. I always just OOC paying 100 plat for a port or bug my guild. ;)

For some reason I get annoyed when people say "donating for buffs" or "donating for port or res". Donating what? 2 copper? 1,000 plat? Maybe a dick move but I'll usually buff people for free on my shaman if they ask (as long as they don't use stupid abbreviations like plz) or buff them if they offer a specific amount, but if they say donating - never.

[Jigawatts]

Daldaen, now I will admit that I spend most of my time with /role on, and a good number of my ports have been from OT, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've been truly stiffed. Usually its 30-50p every single time.

[Itap]

I'm utterly anti PoK books and I never bug druids or wizards for ports with /tell unless they are advertising their services or in dial a port. I always just OOC paying 100 plat for a port or bug my guild. ;)

For some reason I get annoyed when people say "donating for buffs" or "donating for port or res". Donating what? 2 copper? 1,000 plat? Maybe a dick move but I'll usually buff people for free on my shaman if they ask (as long as they don't use stupid abbreviations like plz) or buff them if they offer a specific amount, but if they say donating - never.

You seem like a really cool person to hangout with :rolleyes:

[kaev]

I would play PoP if Luclin didn't exist, and no PoK ports.

Luclin sucked, PoP sucked, hell Velious sucked in a lot of ways but we seem to be stuck with it. I say we should just skip to LoY without Luclin or PoP. No new classes, races, or race/class combos beyond what we have in Velious, especially no "mounts". Let the various flavors of furries (swamptoads, mooncats, pervertlords, mounties, all of 'em) get their jollies elsewhere.

[Daldaen]

Daldaen, now I will admit that I spend most of my time with /role on, and a good number of my ports have been from OT, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've been truly stiffed. Usually its 30-50p every single time.

Even with a plat donation, I really don't care about porting. If I were concerned about 30-50 plat donations I would advertise a porting service (something I don't recall ever doing on this server... Maybe many moons ago).

It's the fact that these people are too lazy to run, would rather bother a porter or pay them plat, to avoid having to travel 2-3 zones... Then they also say that PoK books making the world feel smaller was one of the worst things to happen to EQ. They're choosing to keep the small world feel by asking or donating for ports instead of traveling on their non-port class. Just doesn't make sense.

If you think PoK books are terrible, start running around more. Or get a bard to travel with you with selos since player interaction seems to be a huge concern to so many. That would be some actual interaction, running around Norrath with a selos bard. Trying to suggest interacting with porters is anything more than a request for port and thanks/buff requests is nonsense.

[Grizzled]

The luclin translocator guys were nice. I mean lets face it the boats on live were ALWAYS broken. It was still upto a 15 min wait for each port. You still had some down time for unassisted travel. Luclin its self was all on the moon and absolutely does not fit everquest in any way shape or form.

The bazaar always struck me as a loss for the game. I always thought if people wanted to be merchants in a sword and shield game, the computer should not be doing it for them. I remember hitting ec a few days after luclin was released. It was quiet and it was damned creepy.

Planes and Powers was an absolutely awesome expansion. But in dealing with planes they left out the original planes. A key should have had to of been obtained from a piece from each of the older planes. A key to gain access to plane of tranq. Then resume the expansion from there.

Poknowledge and books/stones. that is a 50/50 split. Made travel easier to get to groups/raids. Most people who hated them back in the day were the people who profited off not having them. Knowledge gave every class access to every spell. I never did like wis casters got almost all their spells from vendors and int casters had to research/ get drops.

LDON was a good concept but poorly implemented ( i believe). Gear modification is a great idea. I just didnt care for instances, with a special currency, and special vendors. Better way is getting a quest box that ignores lore and can only contain a specific item for that quest. this way you can take a specific piece of dropped loot and put both in, combine and get the new fixed piece.

AA was the best part of the game for me. I wanst and still am not a fan of alts. This allowed me to do something beneficial with my toon other than pile more money up or power level someones alt.

my 2 cp

[Taminy]

You seem like a really cool person to hangout with :rolleyes:

I would never deny that.

That said, I just like people to be direct. General beating around the bush is a pet peeve.

[Bodybagger]

Even with a plat donation, I really don't care about porting. If I were concerned about 30-50 plat donations I would advertise a porting service (something I don't recall ever doing on this server... Maybe many moons ago).

It's the fact that these people are too lazy to run, would rather bother a porter or pay them plat, to avoid having to travel 2-3 zones... Then they also say that PoK books making the world feel smaller was one of the worst things to happen to EQ. They're choosing to keep the small world feel by asking or donating for ports instead of traveling on their non-port class. Just doesn't make sense.

If you think PoK books are terrible, start running around more. Or get a bard to travel with you with selos since player interaction seems to be a huge concern to so many. That would be some actual interaction, running around Norrath with a selos bard. Trying to suggest interacting with porters is anything more than a request for port and thanks/buff requests is nonsense.

I run unless I need to get somewhere too dangerous for me to cross a zone. I run even without run speed. I will ask any sham/druid along the way for a sow... and I'm a newb who does well to get spells and basic gear so I don't really donate either *shrug* part of the game. You don't have to be generous with your time, be an old mizer and never sow or port anyone, more power to you. Don't blame others for your lack of desire to do one of your classes intended roles though... surely you've benefitted from many many people in groups along the way to the top/wherever you feel you are now, and surely those weren't all mutully beneficial situations...

hell in just the past 2 days I've duo'd on my SK with 2 druids and an enchanter, all basic newbs and all people I was straight carrying, all but sitting there afk (keeping me company while I demolished uguk for us) and I know one day they will be far more useful to other people than me, but hopeful they will remember that and always pay it forwards too. I even went out of my way to get one druid a ress when he died and hadn't bound and was at felwithe, and no druids would pick him up.

....way to betray your own kind! :rolleyes:

[maahes]

I'd be down for the addition of the PoP raids, without the monstrosity known as the "Plane of Knowledge".

Well said. PoP was the expansion that ruined the game for me, because it was so near perfection, books were really the only true flaw. PoP was too good, every xpac after was clear to be a massive disappointment, as it was. Raiding done perfect!

[Master Roshi]

Just be thankful you have your item links and current UI modding capabilities.

Everything else is no.

[Taminy]

Well said. PoP was the expansion that ruined the game for me, because it was so near perfection, books were really the only true flaw. PoP was too good, every xpac after was clear to be a massive disappointment, as it was. Raiding done perfect!

Not that PoP raiding was bad (it was excellent) but there were other problems besides just the books.

-There were no factions at all in the expansion and whether you were a good or evil race had no meaning at all.

-Excessive AAs. The ones in Luclin were enough to clearly define all classes.

-Flagging/keying system

[Daldaen]

Not that PoP raiding was bad (it was excellent) but there were other problems besides just the books.

-There were no factions at all in the expansion and whether you were a good or evil race had no meaning at all.

-Excessive AAs. The ones in Luclin were enough to clearly define all classes.

-Flagging/keying system

1. Faction I agree and disagree. On the agreeing hand, it adds depth to the game and makes the choices your character makes matter. On the other hand... Your characters are adventuring into the planes to kill the gods themselves. If anything merits the putting aside of race and deity affiliation, it is the daunting challenge of fighting actual gods in their planes of existence. Sort of silly that killing your own God didn't have any bearing though I will agree. Though CT and Inny followers kill them already, all the time in classic/Kunark/Velious.

2. Nah. The PoP AAs added so much depth to the game. They were class defining. There were the general stat/resist/TS ones sure. I could live without those (though mastering all TSes was neat). The class ones though were great. Each class got atleast one solid AA that have them more utility, power or roles in a raid and group setting that was unique to their class.

3. Flagging system I had a love-hate relationship for. On one hand it was an epic quest for both your character and your guild. Knocking off each God on your path to the Elemental and eventually Time planes was awesome. It had two failure, both more or less fixed later on.

Firstly, it was WAYYY too restrictive to start. A few months in they removed this restriction by adding in level barriers to certain planes (CoD,PoV,PoS,PoTorment at 55, HoH, BoT at 62). I'd say Tactics and Solusek Ro both warranted being added to the 62 level limit as well. Keeping EPs and Time locked.

Secondly, it was very unforgiving. The Saryrn cycle was the most brutal. Missing Grummus meant the Carprin key wouldn't stick (even after the level barriers were added). Missing Carprin meant you couldn't click down to Bertox. Missing either Bertox or Terris meant the Keeper of Souls and Saryrn flags wouldn't stick. Etc. Etc. It was mainly because the story line doesn't make sense if you do it out of order, but for purposes of flagging you should've been able to get flags whenever so long as you could zone in.

EPs were a great idea though, atleast all of them except PoAir 1.0. They gave elite-cutting edge raiders a playground to get the best exp, the best groupable drops, the best tradeskill drops and access to the final pieces of some long-chain quests. As well as some solid raids to farm + the 4 elemental gods (some of the best, mechanically speaking, raids to grace EQ).

VP in Kunark, ST in Velious and VT in Luclin all were crappy cause they were raid only. EPs allowed some exclusivity to them while also allowing groups to occur there.

Tl;dr - PoP best expansion ever.

[Fountree]

I think the original poster is just reflecting on the fact that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to do that's fresh after 5 years on blue. The rolling nature of content in the original game of EQ (You were beyond PoP at the 5 year mark) kept things interesting until the post-PoP period where its universally agreed that shit got stupid.

I've expressed this opinion several times in the past, but what a lot of the "classic" nazis forget is that in the process of microscopically adjusting every gameplay feature to adhere as close to the original as possible, you have a blue server that is becoming more and more unbalanced due to item saturation, lvl 60 saturation, chardok AE etc. You also have people who would really like to keep playing who become burnt out by doing the same raids and/or camps over and over again, 100s or 1000s of times. An important part of PVE EQ is to progress your character (and also guild as a team)... and if you have nothing to progress onward to, there's little left to do. Some people have kept on playing because they enjoy the little things like Sebilis grinding and the complexity of EQ's group and raid based gameplay, but everything has its breaking point where its like...-_- *sigh* I suppose I'll cut my P99 time.

Saying all that, I'm certainly one of those folks who supports the mechanical and gameplay changes happening now in the hopes that a new, fresh and balanced blue server would eventually be released that follows an accurate timeline, with classic features like /guildwar implemented and perhaps gamebreaking things like chardok AE, item recharging, and epic MQs eliminated.

[kaev]

...

EPs were a great idea though, atleast all of them except PoAir 1.0. They gave elite-cutting edge raiders a playground to get the best exp, the best groupable drops, the best tradeskill drops and access to the final pieces of some long-chain quests. As well as some solid raids to farm + the 4 elemental gods (some of the best, mechanically speaking, raids to grace EQ).

VP in Kunark, ST in Velious and VT in Luclin all were crappy cause they were raid only. EPs allowed some exclusivity to them while also allowing groups to occur there.

Tl;dr - PoP best expansion ever.

I could not disagree with this more. The EPs elaborated and perfected the premanent separation of EQ players into larger population of casual scum who might maybe get a few content crumbs and a minority of privileged players who got to play the game that everybody payed equally to play. It was this divide in the player population that led inevitably to EQ's decline. Fewer and fewer players found enough interesting about the game to keep paying a subscription. When you're effectively locked out of vast swaths of content, why would you pay to continue developing and elaborating that content?

Quite a few casual and/or RP players could see where EQ was headed once they got a good look at Velious. Many of my friends, both RL and those I had made in-game, bailed on EQ early in Velious. More left early in Luclin, most of the remainder bailed as soon as it became clear how PoP content worked. Amongst gamers who were not obsessed with ordering their real lives around high-end EQ raiding, PoP sucked ginormous necrotic donkey balls for exactly the reason you are applauding it.

PoK & PoK books were stupid, but they're not why PoP sucked. PoP sucked because it offered next to nothing to the overwhelming majority of the players who paid for its development. Velious prepared the stake, Luclin held the stake in place and handed up the mallet, and PoP struck the killing blow, driving the stake mercilessly into heart of EQ, killing the greatness of the game for all time.

[Raev]

You seem like a really cool person to hangout with :rolleyes:

People saying "will donate for port" always seemed like a misuse of language to me. Which is why I always say WTB port/buffs etc.

Also Daldaen I checked http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24202 which seems to be a list of AAs by expac and the PoP list looks quite small <shrug>

[sox7d]

I think the original poster is just reflecting on the fact that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to do that's fresh after 5 years on blue. The rolling nature of content in the original game of EQ (You were beyond PoP at the 5 year mark) kept things interesting until the post-PoP period where its universally agreed that shit got stupid.

I've expressed this opinion several times in the past, but what a lot of the "classic" nazis forget is that in the process of microscopically adjusting every gameplay feature to adhere as close to the original as possible, you have a blue server that is becoming more and more unbalanced due to item saturation, lvl 60 saturation, chardok AE etc. You also have people who would really like to keep playing who become burnt out by doing the same raids and/or camps over and over again, 100s or 1000s of times. An important part of PVE EQ is to progress your character (and also guild as a team)... and if you have nothing to progress onward to, there's little left to do. Some people have kept on playing because they enjoy the little things like Sebilis grinding and the complexity of EQ's group and raid based gameplay, but everything has its breaking point where its like...-_- *sigh* I suppose I'll cut my P99 time.

Saying all that, I'm certainly one of those folks who supports the mechanical and gameplay changes happening now in the hopes that a new, fresh and balanced blue server would eventually be released that follows an accurate timeline, with classic features like /guildwar implemented and perhaps gamebreaking things like chardok AE, item recharging, and epic MQs eliminated.


More like:

We all missed classic and the memories we had in it.

We've gotten our fix and since everything is so commodotized, most players are jaded and the discovery/fear/excitement is gone.

The distance between classic -> P1999's release is now shorter than the distance between PoP/LDoN -> today.

I had a lot of fun during PoP/LDoN.

I'd like to relive those memories. (Though I don't expect it at all from this project, keep classic classic.)

[Itap]

People saying "will donate for port" always seemed like a misuse of language to me. Which is why I always say WTB port/buffs etc.


I always say something along the lines of "Donating 50pp for port to WC"...

/shrug

[Daldaen]

I could not disagree with this more. The EPs elaborated and perfected the premanent separation of EQ players into larger population of casual scum who might maybe get a few content crumbs and a minority of privileged players who got to play the game that everybody payed equally to play. It was this divide in the player population that led inevitably to EQ's decline. Fewer and fewer players found enough interesting about the game to keep paying a subscription. When you're effectively locked out of vast swaths of content, why would you pay to continue developing and elaborating that content?

Quite a few casual and/or RP players could see where EQ was headed once they got a good look at Velious. Many of my friends, both RL and those I had made in-game, bailed on EQ early in Velious. More left early in Luclin, most of the remainder bailed as soon as it became clear how PoP content worked. Amongst gamers who were not obsessed with ordering their real lives around high-end EQ raiding, PoP sucked ginormous necrotic donkey balls for exactly the reason you are applauding it.

PoK & PoK books were stupid, but they're not why PoP sucked. PoP sucked because it offered next to nothing to the overwhelming majority of the players who paid for its development. Velious prepared the stake, Luclin held the stake in place and handed up the mallet, and PoP struck the killing blow, driving the stake mercilessly into heart of EQ, killing the greatness of the game for all time.
Surely you jest!

PoP offered more content to everyone at every level. People forget the massive size of the expansion...

There was content for the high end, like the EPs and Time (VT, ST, ToV, and VP are all prior examples of this that locked out the dirty casuals.)

There was content for the mid-tier (the flagging raids).

There was content for the low-tier. PoNightmare had the hobgoblin script, hedge event, and Vhaskiz. CoD had Paffa. PoI had Xanamech, Prototypes and the trial. PoJ had the 6 trials and Seventh Hammer. PoValor had the Sleep Walker. PoStorms had the giant named in each fort, the frog event, the bees event and the Lightning giant trial. BoT had the mini named and tower named for farming loots. Tactics has Glykus and Overseer plus the mini named along the path to VZ/TZ (plus those gods themselves were very easy). Torment had the Stomach event. All of those were fights designed for one solid group or multiple casual groups.

Groupers - again once the level barriers were added - had tons of zones to exp in.

46-55 you had PoJustice, PoNightmare, PoInnovation, PoDisease
55-62 you had CoDecay, PoValor, PoStorms, PoTorment
62-65 you had PoTactics, Halls of Honor, Bastion of Thunder

Tradeskillers - Finally All 7 TSes are made relevant and yield items that are marketable. Even Pottery had Ceramic items people wanted. JC made a resurgence with Valor Rings primarily. Fletching... If you had access to EPs you could make the 2nd best now in game behind only PoTime, Nightmare Bows was great for groupers. Baking/Brewing are made even more relevant with meaningful stat food for the min/maxers. Tailoring and Smithing add armor from almost every plane.

Questers - tons of quests lead you back to classic era zones. Wood elf illusion crown, mid-level focus effects, recharging no drop quest items, etc. Not to mention some of the best quests in game IMO. Secrets of the Planes, Signet of the Arcane, Power of the Elements...

MMOs will always have high end content that even though you're paying for it, you won't experience it because your neckbeard isn't long enough or you may even only get an hour a week to play. I don't think that's a problem though :/. Just so long as it is reasonable allocations.

GoD for example was failure in this regard. 95% was tuned toward high end raiding. Grouping was shitty and overtuned.

[Daldaen]

People saying "will donate for port" always seemed like a misuse of language to me. Which is why I always say WTB port/buffs etc.

Also Daldaen I checked http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24202 which seems to be a list of AAs by expac and the PoP list looks quite small <shrug>

Here's a pull from my cleric's Macgelo. These are all PoP AAs. The list you show is where the line originated.

PoP Class

Advanced Innate Strength: 0
Advanced Innate Stamina: 0
Advanced Innate Agility: 0
Advanced Innate Dexterity: 0
Advanced Innate Intelligence: 0
Advanced Innate Wisdom: 0
Advanced Innate Charisma: 0
Warding of Solusek: 0
Blessing of E'ci: 0
Marr's Protection: 10
Shroud of The Faceless: 10
Bertoxxulous' Gift: 10
Planar Power: 5
Innate Enlightenment: 5

PoP Advance

Advanced Healing Adept: 3
Advanced Healing Gift: 3
Lightning Reflexes: 5
Innate Defense: 5
Radiant Cure: 3
Hastened Divinity: 3
Hastened Purification of the Soul: 3
Hastened Turning: 0
Divine Arbitration: 3
Celestial Renewal: 0
Unfailing Divinity: 3
Fury of Magic: 0

[Itap]

Wow, well we all know what Dalds favorite expansion is! :)

[Halius]

Just be thankful you have your item links and current UI modding capabilities.

Everything else is no.

I really wish we had classic UI, and no item links. I was really hoping when I first started on this and saw the Classic tag that I would have the old UI and people in EC offering to show their bags of wares at T1! But, alas, not yet. It's obviously not a game breaker because this server is still awesome but it would have been great.

[Daldaen]

Wow, well we all know what Dalds favorite expansion is! :)

Some people would pay for an updated FF VII or Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

I'd go for a truly classic PoP server. It existed on Al'Kabor and I was able to play there for a year. Definitely best year of EQing I've done. Easily.

Still super salty they made it FTP and then shut it down though.

[Itap]

Some people would pay for an updated FF VII or Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

I'd go for a truly classic PoP server. It existed on Al'Kabor and I was able to play there for a year. Definitely best year of EQing I've done. Easily.

Still super salty they made it FTP and then shut it down though.

The way you talk about PoP makes me wish I had played more of it

[Halius]

Some people would pay for an updated FF VII or Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

I'd go for a truly classic PoP server. It existed on Al'Kabor and I was able to play there for a year. Definitely best year of EQing I've done. Easily.

Still super salty they made it FTP and then shut it down though.

I got the Mac server working on my PC just about a week before they shut it down. Got to level 5 and then wasn't able to play anymore. I was a little sad because although I wasn't a huge fan of PoK, I did really enjoy all the new zones from PoP.

[Daldaen]

The way you talk about PoP makes me wish I had played more of it

It really was the best expansion EQ had.

At Halius that's a shame, I know a few others who had just gotten their client functioning and we're starting. Such a shame they decided to be dumb and remove their best server with all the classic fixings. Oldschool damage tables, the newbie armor was in alpha status, still had corpse runs, still had exp loss, no new fangled UI adjustments.

If you wanted to remain in Velious that was your choice. On that server the <Vintage> guild worked their way through classic and Kunark, had just started knocking down dragons in NToV when the server came down :(.

I'm hoping the TAKProject mined enough data from the server before it went offline to replicate it somewhat.

[Bumamgar]

Personally Velious / Luclin / PoP are my three favorite expansions. While I fully understand the devs desire to cap things at Velious (no AA, no new models, etc) I personally would love to play on a server that had the same dedication to detail that p99 does, but extended throuch to PoP.

[sox7d]

http://www.amazon.com/Everquest-Atlas-Myrist-Ryan-Barker/dp/0972149503/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418938501&sr=8-1&keywords=maps+of+myrist

The ultimate bathroom reader.

[LulzSect]

I could not disagree with this more. The EPs elaborated and perfected the premanent separation of EQ players into larger population of casual scum who might maybe get a few content crumbs and a minority of privileged players who got to play the game that everybody payed equally to play. It was this divide in the player population that led inevitably to EQ's decline. Fewer and fewer players found enough interesting about the game to keep paying a subscription. When you're effectively locked out of vast swaths of content, why would you pay to continue developing and elaborating that content?

Quite a few casual and/or RP players could see where EQ was headed once they got a good look at Velious. Many of my friends, both RL and those I had made in-game, bailed on EQ early in Velious. More left early in Luclin, most of the remainder bailed as soon as it became clear how PoP content worked. Amongst gamers who were not obsessed with ordering their real lives around high-end EQ raiding, PoP sucked ginormous necrotic donkey balls for exactly the reason you are applauding it.

PoK & PoK books were stupid, but they're not why PoP sucked. PoP sucked because it offered next to nothing to the overwhelming majority of the players who paid for its development. Velious prepared the stake, Luclin held the stake in place and handed up the mallet, and PoP struck the killing blow, driving the stake mercilessly into heart of EQ, killing the greatness of the game for all time.

http://i.imgur.com/UnceX.gif

[Bodybagger]

I really wish we had classic UI, and no item links. I was really hoping when I first started on this and saw the Classic tag that I would have the old UI and people in EC offering to show their bags of wares at T1! But, alas, not yet. It's obviously not a game breaker because this server is still awesome but it would have been great.

exactly what I hoped for when I loaded up p99 first time lol

I truly miss classic appearance like that...just the best... only now my monitor is the wrong shape hahahah

[Loke]

I've always secretly hoped that after velious gets stale here that the Devs would take on Luclin, but not in a "true to live" fashion. My opinion of Luclin has always been that it was a decent raid expansion, that didn't trivialize aspects of the game like PoP did, and that it's major fault was wasted potential. They could have done so much more with quests and faction in places like Katta and Seru. Even the lore supports the idea of warring factions like velious. Tying it back to Kunark and the original exodus to Luclin had potential too - although I am generally wary about altering old zones. That isn't even considering the Vah'shir, which I'm not a huge fan of, but they are a playable race that could definitely make the faction story better with 4 players (Katta, Seru, nexus/SH, Vah'shir).

Another cool thing that seemed new and unique to Luclin that they could have done more with was that zone that shifted what mobs were spawned depending on what players were killing (tenebrous mtns maybe? I never spent much time there). With faction wars and zones in between cities, dynamic zones that change based on the factions that controlled them and tied into armor quests or something would have been cool.

Really, aside from the wasted potential, the only thing really horrible about Luclin was beast lords. I'm probably biased since I primarily played a monk, but BLs were OP, unimaginative , and poorly implemented. Oh, and the graphics update was meh, but that was optional so not really a deal breaker. Even nexus wasn't that bad since 9 times out of 10, a Druid or wizard is still way faster for transportation.

Plz Nilbog, after a well deserved break once velious is done, give a shot at making Luclin the expansion it should have been.

[Sirken]

I still think EQ1 without the classic planes (Sky, Hate, Fear) would be a great server in itself if it never progressed past classic.

Realistically speaking, Velious and Kunark have very little content that reminds me of the style of content in the original release. When you found an item with stats in pre-Kunark, you either had to farm for days or go to Lower Guk/Nagafen's Lair - and even then, the two major dungeons felt out of place realistically speaking from a content perspective.

Prior to those dungeons, you had to farm all over the world to get your drops and gear as opposed to just two dungeons on the same continent. There was virtually no point in the many merchant-sold weaponry or classic crafted after getting a SSoY or one of the many other visible armor slot drops in both of those zones.

Maybe I just hold the newbie experience in high regards, but I still think it's a bit silly to have Mithril BPs dropping in Nagafen's Lair around the same time you'd probably make enough plat to make Fine Plate armor.

It's almost like two different developers had designed half of the content. It's weird. I really don't know how to explain it other than 80% of the content gets invalidated with Kunark, and there's so much of it in the game prior that gets overlooked.

well said

[Bodybagger]

Indeed^... I would play the hell out of full classic as I never got to and always felt rather alone in the world with Kunark out and everyone flocking to those zones for gear and higher xp and such

[iruinedyourday]

There's one thing asking someone to group, exping or questing with someone.

It's another dealing with:

"That earring for 5k, lol man that's a piece of crap, I'll give you 3k"
"Aww 5k, I really only have 2765 plat, can ya do that?"
"Hey I'll take that earring for 500" - 2 min later - "WTS earring 700"

The same people who hated PoK books are the ones who didn't play porters. I play a 60 druid and 52 wizard. I'm almost never /role on either of them. I get request for pickups in Emerald Jungle or Unrest occasionally. I politely say nope, I'm busy. Most people understand and say thanks anyways. Cool. But sometimes you get the dude offering you 30 plat for the port and complaining when you don't feel compelled to travel 15min across Norrath to port them for less than a hill Giants worth of platinum.

Also PoK book complaining is the dumbest thing in the world on this server. People REGULARLY ask for a port from WC to Lavastorm or EC to SRo. It's 2 fucking zones. Run. But heaven forbid you could click a book and travel yourself. Instead you want to inconvenience someone else, spend their mana and time and quite often not pay them for it.

Don't get me wrong, I do port people, almost never accept plat, and SoW them on their way. The general population of this server however feels entitled to these services and in the same breath they ask for a port with, they will criticizes the very features that unburdened players like myself from providing them.

I don't have any issues porting friends or guildmates. However the "interaction" you refer to from getting a port from a random guy is basically non existent. 95%+ of my ports involve these tells:

"Can I get a port from X to Y"
"Thanks"

Occasionally:

"Sorry corpse run otherwise I'd donate"
Or
"You sure you don't want plat"

Often:

"Can I get a INSERT BUFFS HERE?"

Shit isn't interacting with me at all. You interact more with the guy at the liquor store or the woman at the grocery store scanning your items.

PS - Yes, I am salty of that argument consistently being made on these boards. No one gives a shit about talking to their porter, they just want their port.

Obviously what we need is buff books.

[kaev]

I still think EQ1 without the classic planes (Sky, Hate, Fear) would be a great server in itself if it never progressed past classic.

Realistically speaking, Velious and Kunark have very little content that reminds me of the style of content in the original release. When you found an item with stats in pre-Kunark, you either had to farm for days or go to Lower Guk/Nagafen's Lair - and even then, the two major dungeons felt out of place realistically speaking from a content perspective.

Prior to those dungeons, you had to farm all over the world to get your drops and gear as opposed to just two dungeons on the same continent. There was virtually no point in the many merchant-sold weaponry or classic crafted after getting a SSoY or one of the many other visible armor slot drops in both of those zones.

Maybe I just hold the newbie experience in high regards, but I still think it's a bit silly to have Mithril BPs dropping in Nagafen's Lair around the same time you'd probably make enough plat to make Fine Plate armor.

It's almost like two different developers had designed half of the content. It's weird. I really don't know how to explain it other than 80% of the content gets invalidated with Kunark, and there's so much of it in the game prior that gets overlooked.

Agreed. It definitely felt like there were two competing visions of content. In vision one character advancement is a struggle, in vision two character advancement just happens because you're logged in. In vision one druids and necros were nerfed, rogues and shamans were left broken, and the MOTD warned that there would be no GM help if you couldn't recover your corpse from the feet of a dragon before it decayed. In vision two early raid guilds had L20 alts in full planar armor (before the level minimum was put in game) and Kunark release utterly devalued pretty much every droppable classic two-hander within hours (Mithril Two-Hander held value can't recall another that did.)

[Bumamgar]

Kaev: The L20 alts in full planar was due to the simple fact that the devs had no idea what the playerbase would figure out and actually do in game that they simply hadn't thought of. Monks FD pulling is another such mechanic that was unplanned by the devs.

Those things weren't by design, but simply due to inexperience with dealing with a community of thousands of people who would think of things in a different way than the dev team itself considered them.

[iruinedyourday]

Kaev: The L20 alts in full planar was due to the simple fact that the devs had no idea what the playerbase would figure out and actually do in game that they simply hadn't thought of. Monks FD pulling is another such mechanic that was unplanned by the devs.

Those things weren't by design, but simply due to inexperience with dealing with a community of thousands of people who would think of things in a different way than the dev team itself considered them.

hell twisting was emergent gameplay.. kiteing.. most of what we do in eq is emergent

[Wenuven]

I'd go for a truly classic PoP server. It existed on Al'Kabor and I was able to play there for a year. Definitely best year of EQing I've done. Easily.


Seconded on this. I'd sell my soul for a decent PoP server. Sadly I don't expect I will see one in any reasonable time where I am likely to play. =/ Unless SoE decides to launch a replacement for Al'Kabor as was briefly rumored after the shutdown.

[Mandalore93]

I feel that the perspectives of Luclin and PoP are almost one hundred percent based on nostalgia. Everyone says they hated those expansions...yet live's population continued to climb after PoP for a few years if I recall correctly. People complain about the Luclin Spires, PoK books, and Bazaar. But in truth for their time they were brilliant game mechanics that were light years ahead of their competitors. As someone who really didn't start playing the game until after Luclin released I can say with complete sincerity that the low level game was pretty severely depleted by the time even I had started playing. My grandfather and I duoed for the most part and unless we were in very popular zones such as Crushbone we wouldn't see a soul for days. It wasn't until we started approaching 45 (with level cap of 65) that we began to see other players regularly.

[Grubbz]

pop was hands down the best expansion to any mmo ever. the raiding scene was amazing, casual guilds had targets like xanamech, hedge event and even PoD mini's and the hardcore guilds keep doing what they did best which was the elemental planes and plane of time.

the biggest thing that killed pop for me is when sony allowed an item to drop that would grant users the plane of time flag, this just ruined the progression of the entire expansion, seriously wtf sony......

p99 definitely wouldent have a poopsocking issue with raid targets because there is no way in hell any 1 guild on this server can perma lock down the what 40+ gods and demi gods that come with the pop expansion?

tldr, pop best expansion.

[Rararboker]

Someone please find the great post someone made about how Luclin could be skipped and PoP could be integrated into the server naturally? It was very well made but I can't remember which thread or person put that up. Basically no PoK and all the planes can be access from various places in the world like how Fear is. So to get to Prexus's realm there was a spot near Erudin with the portal, etc etc.

I thought it was how they should have done PoP.

[sox7d]

make it so at lvl 46 you can sell your soul to the gods and TP to plane of tranquility but never return to norrath again, except maybe the old planes, but you can't trade anything. problem solved.

[iruinedyourday]

permadeath server

[Stormfists]

PoP's key successes were down to the depth of endgame raiding as Luclin had travel down pretty well. You couldnt just zerg, you had to formulate proper strats in places like PoE & PoT, which was fun - especially back with 10-15 endgame raiding guilds fighting for progression. In comparison, classing raiding is organising a basement dwelling neckbeard zerg fest... although I'm certain none of us play EQ for its intricate raiding difficulty.

Plus maybe devs feel like they're done after Velius and want to move on in RL.

[Itap]

Plus maybe devs feel like they're done after Velius and want to move on in RL.

Blasphemy!

[hammertime7795]

Luclin was not a bad expansion. It had a lot of good things even if parts of it were silly.

[Skinned]

Correct!

Just saying it was one of the best changes to come to EQ ever.

It made it very easy to make money artificially through arbitrage.

Maybe the server is so classic it is anti-Usury :D

[kaev]

Kaev: The L20 alts in full planar was due to the simple fact that the devs had no idea what the playerbase would figure out and actually do in game that they simply hadn't thought of. Monks FD pulling is another such mechanic that was unplanned by the devs.

Those things weren't by design, but simply due to inexperience with dealing with a community of thousands of people who would think of things in a different way than the dev team itself considered them.

Twinking emergent? ahahahahahahahahaha... <deep breath, count to 10>... twinking was not invented in EQ, EQ devs had plenty experience in MUDs & UO.

FD pulling emergent? quickly obvious in play but yeah probably unanticipated due to poor testing practices

hell twisting was emergent gameplay.. kiteing.. most of what we do in eq is emergent

Twisting emergent? Explicit mechanics design is now emergent gameplay? wtf? Just because they didn't publish a 3-step howto guide with pictures you're going to call it emergent? I suppose you think using Stun to interrupt an NPC caster is emergent gameplay also, right?

As for kiting... I suppose it's possible there was somebody on the dev team who was not coked out 24/7 who failed to anticipate kiting... maybe

[fadetree]

It made it very easy to make money artificially through arbitrage.


Arbitrage is *actually* making money, there's nothing artificial about it.
But yeah, bazaar made it a lot easier for those of us without the patience for EC.

[Mentathiel]

I do wonder what the devs will do after Velious.

Maybe they can look at the post-velious expansions and see if they contain anything that can be added without impacting the classic feel. Things like PoK and Luclin spires are obviously not classic (whether people think they are good changes or not) and we'll probably never see Vah Shir or playable Frogloks, but if people are worried about end-game stagnation, maybe we might see some of the PoP raids. Adding beastlords (for the old-world races) might be an interesting change and the shared bank slot (from LoY) would at least stop people dropping bags on the floor and then complaining that they rot or get grabbed by passing players.

After years of Kunark, can you imagine how much raising the level-cap alone would change the feel?

[hammertime7795]

I do wonder what the devs will do after Velious.

Maybe they can look at the post-velious expansions and see if they contain anything that can be added without impacting the classic feel. Things like PoK and Luclin spires are obviously not classic (whether people think they are good changes or not) and we'll probably never see Vah Shir or playable Frogloks, but if people are worried about end-game stagnation, maybe we might see some of the PoP raids. Adding beastlords (for the old-world races) might be an interesting change and the shared bank slot (from LoY) would at least stop people dropping bags on the floor and then complaining that they rot or get grabbed by passing players.

After years of Kunark, can you imagine how much raising the level-cap alone would change the feel?

There was nothing wrong or non classic about the spires. It was not much faster to move around with them than it was running or getting a port unless you had unbelievable timing.

[sox7d]

permadeath server

They did make one. It was full PvP too. Everyone quit as soon as they died over lvl 20.

[Nirgon]

Luclin is my cut off point.

Same.

Velious is even pushing it but the Yelinak / Tormax / Dain rivalry shit is real legit.

Also Lodizal.

[Master Roshi]

They did make one. It was full PvP too. Everyone quit as soon as they died over lvl 20.

Discord server? I remember being reset to lvl 1 when killed and full pvp loot rights...Brutal

[kaev]

Discord server? I remember being reset to lvl 1 when killed and full pvp loot rights...Brutal

Brutal? Brutally stupid maybe. It was nothing but losers using ShowEQ & movement/autofire hacks due to SOE announcing there would be zero CSR presence/support.

[loramin]

I do wonder what the devs will do after Velious.

They've basically answered this question, if you go back and look at their posts. The gist of it is:


They'll implement all of the patches up to (but not including) Luclin
After that's done (2020? 2025?) they will release a true progression server, ie. a server that starts out in an "EQ with no patches whatsoever" state, and then applies patches and expansions at exactly the same (relative) time as they were applied on live. In fact, if I understand correctly the point of P99 wasn't even to make Blue/Red; in some sense both servers are just test beds for making the progression server.
They will implement their own custom content on Blue (and I guess Red too?). The custom content will NOT be just "Luclin zones re-purposed and attached to the old world." Instead, they will be completely new/custom zones, because apparently it's easier for the devs to make new content than it is to re-implement existing content.


Of course none of that is a guarantee or promise to the community, it's just (my interpretation of) their stated ambitions. They could decide not to do any of it ... but I for one certainly hope to someday see both the progression server and the custom content. I'm sure both will be amazing :D

[captnamazing]

They've basically answered this question, if you go back and look at their posts. The gist of it is:


They'll implement all of the patches up to (but not including) Luclin
After that's done (2020? 2025?) they will release a true progression server, ie. a server that starts out in an "EQ with no patches whatsoever" state, and then applies patches and expansions at exactly the same (relative) time as they were applied on live. In fact, if I understand correctly the point of P99 wasn't even to make Blue/Red; in some sense both servers are just test beds for making the progression server.
They will implement their own custom content on Blue (and I guess Red too?). The custom content will NOT be just "Luclin zones re-purposed and attached to the old world." Instead, they will be completely new/custom zones, because apparently it's easier for the devs to make new content than it is to re-implement existing content.


Of course none of that is a guarantee or promise to the community, it's just (my interpretation of) their stated ambitions. They could decide not to do any of it ... but I for one certainly hope to someday see both the progression server and the custom content. I'm sure both will be amazing :D

that cool

[sox7d]

They've basically answered this question, if you go back and look at their posts. The gist of it is:


They'll implement all of the patches up to (but not including) Luclin
After that's done (2020? 2025?) they will release a true progression server, ie. a server that starts out in an "EQ with no patches whatsoever" state, and then applies patches and expansions at exactly the same (relative) time as they were applied on live. In fact, if I understand correctly the point of P99 wasn't even to make Blue/Red; in some sense both servers are just test beds for making the progression server.
They will implement their own custom content on Blue (and I guess Red too?). The custom content will NOT be just "Luclin zones re-purposed and attached to the old world." Instead, they will be completely new/custom zones, because apparently it's easier for the devs to make new content than it is to re-implement existing content.


Of course none of that is a guarantee or promise to the community, it's just (my interpretation of) their stated ambitions. They could decide not to do any of it ... but I for one certainly hope to someday see both the progression server and the custom content. I'm sure both will be amazing :D

I'd love to see what the devs can come up with in terms of custom zones in the spirit of trilogy. Or even a stand-alone game for that matter.

[Bodybagger]

They did make one. It was full PvP too. Everyone quit as soon as they died over lvl 20.

That's a bit much... why not have like on diablo, a server reset on cycles? That'd be pretty sweet imo, and immerse players into social activity in order to play, instead of hiding behind your dozen alts and twinks and supporting yourself.

The entire thing about EQ that made it so special was the anti-solo implements in place. The further the game progressed from this, the more and more it lost to other games, because then it was just an outdated fugly ass version of new games that was frustrating less user friendly as it borrow more and more from more modern mmo's.

I truly think anything can be implemented so long as it doesn't cut back on the anti-solo barriers in place in classic. That one aspect is what I would solely define my love of EQ for. It is a truly social game. I can't just log in and do everything I want like it is a single player game. And that is PERFECT, because I want to play a multiplayer game, online with other people. I want codependency and force cooperation, not just instanced zones.

[mokfarg]

bless this post, so many yes, totally agree 100%

Its as obvious to me as if you were to look at the level design and art of Mistmoore or High Hold Keep and then look at Howling Stones or KC.. pre planer classic classic server would be my favorite thing in life.

Yes!!!

[iruinedyourday]

I'd love to see what the devs can come up with in terms of custom zones in the spirit of trilogy. Or even a stand-alone game for that matter.

would love to see an additional level 20-30 zone that that big open canyon at the orc highway in the back of Oasis :)

[Taminy]

the shared bank slot (from LoY) would at least stop people dropping bags on the floor and then complaining that they rot or get grabbed by passing players.



This will come off as blasphemy, but I've been thinking the shared bank slot should be allowed. They won't let us box (even for minor things like item transfers), so I think this would be a good way to do it. Making you use other players for transfers does not build community, because 99% of people are not going to give items to a stranger for purposes of transfer - it's going to be a guildy or a friend, ie people you already know.

Totally different than allowing boxing and shitcanning the role of certain classes like druids/wizards.

If you play a melee class you are (largely) forced to group, at least for some of your level 1-60 experience. An extreme twink melee could solo to 60 but it would be rather difficult and less productive than grouping. So no pocket shaman or cleric or druid = build community in game by grouping. No pocket cleric -> call in a separate cleric for a res because you wipe and they might join up with you after the group's current cleric leaves. And so on.

But again, no boxing for transfers does not a community build :p maybe putting a special banker in EC only with this feature? Yeah not classic, but "no boxing allowed" = not classic either ;)

[webrunner5]

I was, and am, still a big fan of AA's. And the main reason for it is I think they helped balance out the Hybrids classes to the others.

Velious is really not going to help out Hybrids other than drop the Hybrid penalty. Race penalty will remain. Rangers, and Paladins will still suck. Even Sk's will hardly be able to solo with how many HP mobs will have. It will take them 10 minutes with their DPS to kill one.

AA's gave a lot of the Hybrid classes a reason to play them. Endless Quiver for example was a God send for a Ranger, solo or in Raids. They had a reason to exist lol. AA Dire Charm was great for Enchanters to be able to have a pretty strong Charmed Pet that would stay. Not everyone is a wiz at playing a Enchanter so gave average and so so Chanters a chance to enjoy the class easier.

Both the Pally and SK got Combat Fury AA which helped their DPS a lot along with both getting a lot of weapon damage boost from AA's.

Plus getting the AA's was something to look forward to and something else to do in a game that on here has become pretty boring. I know there is no really good answer, but I don't think some things ought to be written in stone like Nilbog and Ele want. I know it is Nilbog's server so he has the finial say. :p

[Taminy]

I was, and am, still a big fan of AA's. And the main reason for it is I think they helped balance out the Hybrids classes to the others.

Velious is really not going to help out Hybrids other than drop the Hybrid penalty. Race penalty will remain. Rangers, and Paladins will still suck. Even Sk's will hardly be able to solo with how many HP mobs will have. It will take them 10 minutes with their DPS to kill one.

AA's gave a lot of the Hybrid classes a reason to play them. Endless Quiver for example was a God send for a Ranger, solo or in Raids. They had a reason to exist lol. AA Dire Charm was great for Enchanters to be able to have a pretty strong Charmed Pet that would stay. Not everyone is a wiz at playing a Enchanter so gave average and so so Chanters a chance to enjoy the class easier.

Both the Pally and SK got Combat Fury AA which helped their DPS a lot along with both getting a lot of weapon damage boost from AA's.

Plus getting the AA's was something to look forward to and something else to do in a game that on here has become pretty boring. I know there is no really good answer, but I don't think some things ought to be written in stone like Nilbog and Ele want. I know it is Nilbog's server so he has the finial say. :p

AAs were a godsend to rangers no doubt about it. And they made everyone jelly of paladin/sk mounts.

But paladin/sk DPS still sucked bad and always did - or did you forget about warriors also getting combat fury as well as flurry? ;)

[Daldaen]

AAs were a godsend to rangers no doubt about it. And they made everyone jelly of paladin/sk mounts.

But paladin/sk DPS still sucked bad and always did - or did you forget about warriors also getting combat fury as well as flurry? ;)

Through PoP yea, Slay Undead definitely helped on Undead mobs though. Really liked that on my paladin.

Later on, HoT/VoA era paladins got ridiculous DPS discs though. SKs just had ridiculous swarming capabilities.

[Taminy]

Through PoP yea, Slay Undead definitely helped on Undead mobs though. Really liked that on my paladin.

Later on, HoT/VoA era paladins got ridiculous DPS discs though. SKs just had ridiculous swarming capabilities.

Yeah slay undead was uber. But yeah through PoP warriors were always much better DPS than knights on non-undead targets, in fact late PoP they did actually start pushing into the DPS role with PB/Flurry and a good 2hander. I quit early in GoD so can't speak about that and later expansions.

[Daldaen]

Yeah slay undead was uber. But yeah through PoP warriors were always much better DPS than knights on non-undead targets, in fact late PoP they did actually start pushing into the DPS role with PB/Flurry and a good 2hander. I quit early in GoD so can't speak about that and later expansions.

With the BiS PoTIme weapons they were up there in DPS too. Darkblade of the Warlord+Edge of Eternity was pretty ridiculous.

[webrunner5]

AAs were a godsend to rangers no doubt about it. And they made everyone jelly of paladin/sk mounts.

But paladin/sk DPS still sucked bad and always did - or did you forget about warriors also getting combat fury as well as flurry? ;)

Every Melee Class I think gets Fury. I can't think off the top of my head all the AA's that really made the Hybrids better, not great, but better and more fun to play, but AA's helped them for sure.

I mean on paper every class in Velious gets better, even Casters with some of the new spells they will get. I mean having the Hybrid Penalty taken off helps but they are still gimped in Velious. They are really not gaining much other than the Ranger Fear Animals spell comes to mind so they can pretend like they are a SK lol, beating stuff in the ass. :eek:

Monk gets better for sure. Warrior can get a lot of nice gear, but they will NEED it in Velious. That is the expansion where they really do become "meat puppets", and you NEED a Cleric to heal them. The game will change a lot. And I think a lot to the good, not bad. But some classes will be harder to play and some easier.

I Know a Ranger is better because that was my main in Kunark and Velious originally. Tracking is a huge advantage on them. Easy for them to do Quests, loot gear etc. And on Raids Weaponshield discipline will be the Cats ass. :p

[Taminy]

Every Melee Class I think gets Fury. I can't think off the top of my head all the AA's that really made the Hybrids better, not great, but better and more fun to play, but AA's helped them for sure.


Every melee class got combat fury, but only warriors got FLURRY.

[webrunner5]

Every melee class got combat fury, but only warriors got FLURRY.

I think Berserkers got FLURRY also when that class was made in what? Luclin expansion? :confused:

[Relbaic]

PoP best expansion for anything ever.

[Red_Messiah]

PoP was probably the best expansion in the EQ timeline - RIP EQ Mac.

[Master Roshi]

Every melee class got combat fury, but only warriors got FLURRY.

Knights got 2Hander dps aa's, improved double attack and triple attack for 2hs/b/p.

[Daldaen]

I think Berserkers got FLURRY also when that class was made in what? Luclin expansion? :confused:

Frenzy was the combat ability they got, similar to Flying Kick or Backstab, it just allowed zerkers to swing an extra round from their main-hand.

AAs were eventually added for all melee to Flurry.

[Jimjam]

I think Berserkers got FLURRY also when that class was made in what? Luclin expansion? :confused:

Beastlords were luclin. Zerks were Gates of Discord.

[Taminy]

Knights got 2Hander dps aa's, improved double attack and triple attack for 2hs/b/p.

During Luclin - no. And when knights did get improved double attack during PoP, warriors got improved double attack AND punishing blade (chance of extra hit per round) - warriors could quintuple attack during Luclin (triple attack + flurry) and sextuple attack during PoP with 2handers (triple attack + flurry + punishing blade).

Not saying AAs didn't help knights, but warriors were leaps ahead of them during Luclin and PoP and even starting to rival monk-dps levels with full 2hander AAs.


Luclin Shadowknight class AAs:

2 Hand Bash: (1 skill level - cost 6 skill points) - This ability allows the Shadowknight to use his Bash skill while wielding any two-handed weapon.

Body and Mind Rejuvenation: (1 skill level - cost 5 skill points - Prerequisite: 3 skill levels of both Melee Archetype abilities Natural Healing and Mental Clarity) - This ability gives the Shadowknight one additional skill level of both Mental Clarity and Improved Natural Healing.

Double Riposte: (3 skill levels) - This ability gives the Shadowknight a chance for a double riposte any time he successfully ripostes. The first skill level gives the Shadowknight a 15% chance for a Double Riposte, the second skill level raises that chance to 30% and the third skill level makes the chance 50%.

Fearless: (1 skill level - cost 6 skill points - Prerequisite: 3 skill levels of the Melee Archetype ability Fear Resistance) - This ability makes the Shadowknight permanently immune to fear effects
.
Leech Touch: (1 skill level - cost 6 skill points) - This ability gives the Shadowknight the power to use a lifetap Harm Touch that does not require the memorization of a spell or the expenditure of mana. This ability uses the existing Harm Touch Refresh Timer.

Pet Discipline: (1 skill level - cost 6 skill points) - This ability allows the Shadowknight to better control his pet. The command "/pet hold" will prevent the pet from attacking any foe, even if that foe attacks the pet or its master. The pet will remain passive until given another command.

Physical Enhancement: (1 skill level - cost 5 skill points) - This ability gives the Shadowknight one additional skill level in their Natural Durability, Combat Agility and Combat Stability abilities.

Soul Abrasion: (3 skill levels) - Each skill level increases the chance damage done by their self-only Lifetap procs spells.

Super Harm Touch: (1 skill level - cost 6 skill points) - This ability gives the Shadowknight a Harm Touch ability so that it is hard to resist and does not require the memorization of a spell or the expenditure of mana. This ability uses the existing Harm Touch Refresh Timer.

Unholy Steed: (1 skill level - cost 5 skill points) - This ability allows the Shadowknight to summon the ultimate steed.

Luclin Warrior class AAs:

Ambidexterity: (1 skill level - cost 9 skill points) - This ability makes the Warrior more skilled with the use of two weapons by increasing his chance to successfully dual wield.

Area Taunt: (1 skill level - cost 5 skill points) - This ability allows the Warrior to taunt every opponent in close range. The Refresh Timer for this ability is 36 minutes (twelve hours of game time).

Bandage Wound: (3 skill levels - Prerequisite: 3 skill levels of the General ability First Aid) - This ability allows the Warrior to use the Bind Wounds skill to greater effect. The first skill level makes his Bind Wound skill 10% more effective, the second skill level raises the increase to 25% and the third makes the increase 50%.

Double Riposte: (3 skill levels) - This ability gives the Warrior a chance for a double riposte any time he successfully ripostes. The first skill level gives the Warrior a 15% chance for a Double Riposte, the second skill level raises that chance to 30% and the third skill level makes the chance 50%.

Flurry: (3 skill levels - - Prerequisite: 3 skill levels of the Melee Archetype ability Combat Fury) - This ability gives the Warrior a chance of taking two extra attacks with his primary hand whenever he successfully hits an opponent.

Rampage: (1 skill level - cost 5 skill points) - This ability allows the Warrior to make a single attack against every opponent in close range. The Refresh Timer for this ability is 36 minutes (twelve hours of game time).

Warcry: (3 skill levels - Prerequisite: 3 skill levels of the Melee Archetype ability Fear Resistance) - This ability allows the Warrior to make everyone in his group immune to fear for a limited time. Each skill level with this ability increases the duration of the immunity. The Refresh Timer for this ability is 72 minutes (one day of game time).

[triad]

i would like to see a custom content around PoP .. make it be a druid/wiz port in only with some kind of stone like hate and tweak the mobs to be scaled coming from velious ..just act like the moon never happened

[JayN]

single slot servers would be kinda of cool with no ip exemptions period

[Daldaen]

Make PoK books one way trips so that PoK becomes more of a Firepotty area, and allow druids/wizards to port there to keep the value of ports.

Maybe that would make people complain less about those books.

[Taminy]

Make PoK books one way trips so that PoK becomes more of a Firepotty area, and allow druids/wizards to port there to keep the value of ports.

Maybe that would make people complain less about those books.

Another nice thing would removing MGB honestly.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I never belonged on the moon

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/you-dumb-moon.jpg

[Blitzers]

I think the only thing that has kept the economy from complete destruction is the lack of a bazaar. The pain in the ass that is EC keeps a lot of items off the market and a lot of plat in the banks. If that flooded in through easy 24/7 access to goods in a bazaar the whole thing would implode.

You are EXACTLY right, the bazaar had a huge impact on player to player contact. I would say it was the most destructive force in EQ. I loathed the release of Luclin for this very reason. I cannot spew enough hatred for the bazaar, we will never reconcile and I will go to my grave cursing they day it was born. Bazaar killed Classic End of Story.

[Blitzers]

Bazaar was one of the best changes possible.

When you no longer have to sit trying to sell your junk for hours, and instead can AFK overnight and sell stuff, it is fantastic.

Bazaar would bring so much low-end gear into the system. Right now, most of those 50-100 plat items I get from level 30-50 areas aren't worth my time selling. Instead I will just vendor or destroy them. Having an avenue to dump them on a trader and AFK and they get magically sold is great.

Plus you don't have to directly deal with people who make lowball offers, people who undercut you or people who resell. Stuff still happens but because you're AFK it's all out of sight and out of mind. You sell it at your listed price or you don't sell it.

You sicken me, I puke when I hear your voice garble the filth you spew. I hope they make a PVP server and b4 you create a character they ask are u for the pro-bazaar or anti-bazaar, and split us into teams. I would fear kite you every chance I had to make your very existence on that server reprehensible. I gotta puke now blah

[Ravager]

Both EC and the Bazaar suck.

[Blitzers]

There's one thing asking someone to group, exping or questing with someone.

It's another dealing with:

"That earring for 5k, lol man that's a piece of crap, I'll give you 3k"
"Aww 5k, I really only have 2765 plat, can ya do that?"
"Hey I'll take that earring for 500" - 2 min later - "WTS earring 700"

The same people who hated PoK books are the ones who didn't play porters. I play a 60 druid and 52 wizard. I'm almost never /role on either of them. I get request for pickups in Emerald Jungle or Unrest occasionally. I politely say nope, I'm busy. Most people understand and say thanks anyways. Cool. But sometimes you get the dude offering you 30 plat for the port and complaining when you don't feel compelled to travel 15min across Norrath to port them for less than a hill Giants worth of platinum.

Also PoK book complaining is the dumbest thing in the world on this server. People REGULARLY ask for a port from WC to Lavastorm or EC to SRo. It's 2 fucking zones. Run. But heaven forbid you could click a book and travel yourself. Instead you want to inconvenience someone else, spend their mana and time and quite often not pay them for it.

Don't get me wrong, I do port people, almost never accept plat, and SoW them on their way. The general population of this server however feels entitled to these services and in the same breath they ask for a port with, they will criticizes the very features that unburdened players like myself from providing them.

I don't have any issues porting friends or guildmates. However the "interaction" you refer to from getting a port from a random guy is basically non existent. 95%+ of my ports involve these tells:

"Can I get a port from X to Y"
"Thanks"

Occasionally:

"Sorry corpse run otherwise I'd donate"
Or
"You sure you don't want plat"

Often:

"Can I get a INSERT BUFFS HERE?"

Shit isn't interacting with me at all. You interact more with the guy at the liquor store or the woman at the grocery store scanning your items.

PS - Yes, I am salty of that argument consistently being made on these boards. No one gives a shit about talking to their porter, they just want their port.

Hmm I remember Druids crying a lot about being useless and not being able to find groups after fast travel/nexus came out. And the guy buying for 500 and selling for 700, happens everyday in pawnshops across the World that's probably the most realistic part of EQ.

[myriverse]

I remember Druids always complaining about not being able to find groups.

just saying...

[Taryth]

That's a fine position to have.

I just tire of the people who complain that PoK books made the world smaller, they reduced interaction with players and yet on this server expect me to port them to a zone 2 zones away, sow them and buff them. Especially if these are /role or /Anon people who have 0 problem hiding their class and never making themselves available to requests for assistance/interacting with other players. Yet will always send me requests for ports buffs or PLs.

PoP was the pinnacle of EQ. If there were a solid PoP locked server Id be there in a heartbeat. It makes me very sad that closed down Al'Kabor still. Would've easily paid a Strommhammer level subscription to play on that server even though it had a single patch and almost no support for the past year of its existence.

The Al'Kabor server lives on in takproject.net.

[Daldaen]

Hmm I remember Druids crying a lot about being useless and not being able to find groups after fast travel/nexus came out. And the guy buying for 500 and selling for 700, happens everyday in pawnshops across the World that's probably the most realistic part of EQ.

Useless Druids cried about being useless.

Good druids saw they got upgraded mana regen, DPS, Healing and buff utility and knew Luclin/PoP were awesome for soloing, grouping and raiding druids.

I don't really care about it being realistic, this is a fantasty game. There is a reason Used Car Salesman have a reputation for being scummy. I just loved not having to directly deal with those individuals once the Bazaar came out. Never have to listen to their pitches about why GEBs jumped back up to 5k or why my Rain Caller is only worth 1.5k. In the Bazaar they pay my price or they don't. I don't have to waste time sitting there or listening to their complaining about prices.

Bazaar was fantastic.

[myriverse]

lets go ahead and open legacy of ykesha too?
MMmmm frogs! Food Network MMO!

[Erydan Ouragan]

Totally agree with Daldaen here, PoP was the best.

Also in PoP, Everquest has achieved something pretty rare in the world of MMOs: an almost perfect balance.

In PoP, classes were in that sweet, golden spot where everyone felt pretty powerful, had a reasonable number of abilities and spells without feeling bloated or over the top.

With AAs and new spells, druids and shamans could reliably heal but clerics were still needed for progression/anything serious, rangers were finally viable with a bow, wizard dps became desirable, everyone could crit, everyone had powerful cooldowns and cool abilities.

So add that, plus all what Daldaen said and you quickly realize that PoP was basically the golden age of EQ and to me, that's where we should be going. Not classic, better than classic.

The Golden Age.

[Shawthis]

PoP comes with way too much stuff I don't care for. AA's and new spells are appreciated, but everything else it comes attached to is not worth it.

[Xer0]

Yes, but look at how that turned out: we left live, sony stopped getting our money and the game lost our contribution, and we all came here (this many years later) to get the experience we preferred. So what we can take away from the thread is that it IS similar to it was...some want more, many don't and will leave if it happens, and devs CANNOT serve both ideologies. We're either P99, or we're Live2.0.


You say that, but didn't they launch their 20th expansion or something like that last year? They're clearly still making a profit :P

I feel that the perspectives of Luclin and PoP are almost one hundred percent based on nostalgia.

110% accurate.

[Zuranthium]

The PoP AAs added so much depth to the game. Each class got atleast one solid AA that have them more utility, power or roles in a raid and group setting that was unique to their class.

They add nothing to the game. AA's themselves are nothing but a time sink. You can simply add all of those class-adjusting abilities into the game regardless.

Something that would actually add DEPTH to the game would be making it so that every class has significantly different specializations and ways to build the character. Aka, attribute trees that every ability is linked to and having a limited number of points to spend that decide how strong each attribute is for your character.

Then, also have a limited number of skills that a character can use at any given time. Casters already have 8 "skill slots" and you could give everyone "skill bar" like that, where melee attacks like Bash would take up a slot. Those 8 skills are locked in until the character goes back to a town or meditates for a long period of time. Some of them can be interchangeable for PvE purposes, like the various teleports or illlusions, and in general you could also link skills to other ones such that they can be "morphed" into them, allowing multiple functions for a single skill slot. This makes it so that everyone is now playing very unique characters.

Of course, all of that is also dependent on the skills and combat system having more depth than what is seen in Classic EQ.

[Clark]

Luclin is my cut off point. New models, world ports, easy leveling. Not the same game anymore.

Na Luclin was the last great expansion that still kept previous content and items relevant. That being said we pretty much need a wipe to follow closer to the original timeline. Just about everyone has an epic now they aren't even remotely unique or special. Is like instanced MMO current day crap where everybody has everything and there's not much meaning behind having a unique item because everyone else has it and they worked 5% as hard to obtain it. Still a fun server but reminds me of current day MMOs now with the improper timeline and mass swell of unique items becoming common items. Then you have the embarrassment of new raid rules instituted that don't resemble anything and had little to no thought into its construction and change it would truly implement. Add in a lead GM/Project Creator who doesn't even login anymore. Sometimes I wish I just was a GM off the bat to give a more genuine and legitimate feel to our server. Project 99 will always be great for many many reasons and rich history; however it won't ever be known for devs and GMs going above and beyond their call to duty. Something I personally take some responsibility for because those positions require unwavering passion, compassion for your players from a realization that this game impacts thousands of people and each ones importance to the project and the fact that they're an actual person, innovation, and no secondary agenda which I would have brought to the table. So hard knowing what this server was like in 09-10 with a passionate and present staff.

[Clark]

To original poster.

No disrespect intended but their are other emulated server that have the content up to and past pop. Nothing says players who feel they want to progress beyond the set timeline of p1999 cannot move to those other emulated servers and just go through Luclin, pop, LOY or GOD.

I would honestly believe most players would leave P1999 if the devs altered their stated server end expansion. Not everyone would leave,but you would not have anywhere the same population that the server has. The server will get very crowded when Velious drops , but it will maintain a healthy population size through out its velious run.
No other emulated servers have even come close to the potential p99 has. Maybe vztz emulated but as far as total people playing and economy vztz emu wasn't even that good.

[Jimjam]

From what I've read;

Golden ages of EQ:
- classic (pre expansion, not trilogy)
- PoP

Ergo, lets make a new server that jumps straight from classic to PoP with no Kunark/Velious/Luclin diluting the world!

[Faiding]

When I think about individual expansions one by one...

Vanilla = euphoric and inspiring
Kunark = mysterious
Velious = grandiose
Luclin = dark
PoP = adrenaline rush epic

Killing Quarm was basically like completing the "campaign mode" that had been building up since vanilla EQ. The next expansions felt like side quests to do when you're bored.

And that's why I don't find them memorable.

[Nuktari]

Luclin is my cut off point. New models, world ports, easy leveling. Not the same game anymore.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/Lq6t66eLlnthS/200.gif

[JurisDictum]

The truth is I stopped playing EQ before Omens because of WoW -- Like many people. And to be honest, I'd do it again. I had a blast with WoW when it first came out. Meanwhile, EQ seems too have basically got to old and inflated by the time Omens came around. Too many AAs and werid other progressions that made the game extremely far removed from what it was. When MMOs get old, you start to see the "man behind the curtain" and new expansions just feel like a hampster wheel. Wow is a great example -- although there are other problems with the modern WoW model that impact its longevity.
I think both classic and PoP era have their place. (Luclin would be playable knowing PoP was coming). Classic still had the soul of EQ if you will -- but there was a lot more of an "end game" in PoP, and the class balance was MUCH better IMO.

[thieros]

When I think about individual expansions one by one...

Vanilla = euphoric and inspiring
Kunark = mysterious
Velious = grandiose
Luclin = dark
PoP = adrenaline rush epic

Killing Quarm was basically like completing the "campaign mode" that had been building up since vanilla EQ. The next expansions felt like side quests to do when you're bored.

And that's why I don't find them memorable.

well put!

[Errakus]

When I think about individual expansions one by one...

Vanilla = euphoric and inspiring
Kunark = mysterious
Velious = grandiose
Luclin = dark
PoP = adrenaline rush epic

Killing Quarm was basically like completing the "campaign mode" that had been building up since vanilla EQ. The next expansions felt like side quests to do when you're bored.

And that's why I don't find them memorable.

Pretty much sums up my opinion on EQ expansions. I did play through off and on till SoD though...

[Cecily]

You sicken me, I puke when I hear your voice garble the filth you spew. I hope they make a PVP server and b4 you create a character they ask are u for the pro-bazaar or anti-bazaar, and split us into teams. I would fear kite you every chance I had to make your very existence on that server reprehensible. I gotta puke now blah

You anti-bazaar facists deserved to be rounded up, AEed to death, rezed, and AEed again. Then have trolls perform lewd acts with your bodies as they get corpse camped. For serious.

[Jontheripper]

I do miss the raging zelniaks aggroing from a mile away, but the nexus spires are a zonekiller

[Meiva]

So I do admit I enjoyed EQ live through PoP. However, this server will be Velious with the possibility of custom content should the devs enjoy themselves.

What I found fascinating about classic through PoP was that after defeating Quarm to release Zebuxoruk from his prison, Druzzil Ro materializes to basically shun the raid force. She then decides to turn back time to before Zeb was released, and in effect created an alternate dimension. This allowed for the lore of future expansions. I feel the chaos began in the alternate universe of the future expansions. I did stop playing after PoP, and enjoyed my experience.

Anyway, wanted to share one of my favorite tidbits of lore from what I believe was the pinnacle of EQ live.

[phoenix182]

I liked parts of probably 18-19 expansions, but that doesn't mean I liked the game through them. For me ultra-fun game ended after SoV. However, I think the biggest part of that is that I'm not an end-game player (in nearly any game).

The most fun for me is always the first 25% of levels/power. As such the introduction of easy ports irrevocably altered the dynamic and feel of the game beyond interest, as does twinking, easy availability of rare or upper power gear, etc. A lot of that I can simply choose not to participate in, but easy ports destabilizes the whole thing because others can use them (or in PvP situations where gear discrepancy matters greatly).

It's not that I don't play the high levels...I've had a lvl 60+ everything in the game with many into the 80s. It's just that the things that focus on that content are less interesting to me than things that focus on low levels or the entire game experience as a whole.

Were I a millionaire super-programmer I would remake EQ ground up cherry picking only the advancements I enjoyed while maintaining the general feel of classic. But I'm not, and never will be, so I'll settle for P99 which is as close as anything will ever get to perfect for me (at least unless/until they do a wipe or spin-off fresh progression server).

[scythic]

You guys always talk about P1999 as if it has Velious. Maybe in another year, if you're lucky.

[Clark]

You anti-bazaar facists deserved to be rounded up, AEed to death, rezed, and AEed again. Then have trolls perform lewd acts with your bodies as they get corpse camped. For serious.

Lmao