Bard DOT damage comparison

[mangobob]

I'm wanting to see how Bard DOT damage stacks up with other classes. For a point of reference, I'm listing the damage per tick I'm doing at lvl 32 with my DOTS. Id appreciate feed back from other classes that use DOTs and any other relevant feedback.

20 dmg Chords of Dissonance.
23 dmg Fulfil's Curtailing Chant
24 dmg Denons Discord

67 dmg Total per tick at lvl 32
59 dmg Total per tick at lvl 32 if target is moving and not feared.

[falkun]

Bard song spreadsheet:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=420134

Sham and Nec (typical DoT classes) can easily out-DoT bards.

Bards can maintain the instrument effect of the song throughout the song's duration if the appropriate instrument is equipped as the song completes casting. If an instrument was not equipped at cast completion, specific ticks can be improved by having an appropriate instrument equipped as the tick occurs. (I am unsure if this is a bug or not, but it's accurate behavior for P99.)

[Savok]

Is this base damage? With a store bought or mob dropped instrument? Bard DoT damage is lower than other classes because of the fact it is a manaless cast, therefore can be continuous forever.

Remember also because of the build in debuff, bard dots only stack with other classes and not with other bards - so if you have 2 bards wanting to use dots make sure your singing different types.

[mangobob]

The damage I posted is with store bought lute and horn with a Mistmoore Drum.

What kind of damage increase will I see with mob dropped lute and horn?

[mangobob]

Sham and Nec (typical DoT classes) can easily out-DoT

I was expecting this but I was interested in to what extent. Bards naturally have some advantages when it comes to dotting. If the damage difference is 10 points or so it may not be more advantageous in certain situations.

Your post was very informative and I appreciate you taking the time to look up the link.

[falkun]

You can edit the level, percussion, stringed, wind, brass, and singing mods to get accurate values for songs. If you need to know mod levels, they are typically listed on the wiki for that item. Epic is the only instrument that will mod singing.

"The damage difference" on DoTs between sham/nec and bard increases with levels, and instruments do not keep up at all. Do your own research on the wiki...simply looking at the L29 & 34 spell circles for necros, they can DoT upwards of 124/tick with vampiric curse, boil blood, dooming darkness, and venom. I doubt many necros would waste that kind of mana, but its possible.

[mangobob]

Do your own research on the wiki...

I have but I'm not familiar with what stacks and what's mana efficient. But most importantly I like peoples opinions on what works best for them.

Would you guess Bard dots will be half as powerful than necros at lvl 60?

[Kekephee]

The damage I posted is with store bought lute and horn with a Mistmoore Drum.

What kind of damage increase will I see with mob dropped lute and horn?

The instrument modifier is a multiplier. I haven't been online more than a couple times in the last few months, and i'm doing this off the top of my head, so these numbers won't be accurate, but it's something like this:

The store bought lute will be like modifier 16, which is 160% damage, so 1.6x(dot base damage). The maestro lute, as one example, is a modifier 21, so that would be 210% damage. Whatever instrument you want to calculate the difference for from the store-bought version, just find out the modifier and calculate/estimate. Most of them are on the wiki, but some of the wiki entries don't have modifier data on them, but basically you can separate all the instruments into three tiers-

Store bought: 16
Mid-level (MM instruments): 18? I think? It's been forever.
Kunark level: 21/22


I think the VP lute is 24 but I never got it, and I don't think there's an equivalent to that one in the way of drums or wind instruments. I think the best wind you'll get your hands on is the sky flute, which issssss... 21? Like I said, it's been a while, but most of this data is available on the wiki and really, it doesn't make any difference to actually know the numbers. The only thing you need to know is the progression of the instruments so you can get them. It's better to have better instruments, so get the best instruments you can, but rest assured in knowing while it does make a difference, it's generally not a huge game-breaker if you have the store lute vs. the MM lute. The only situations that I would say it's really extremely clutch to have the best instrument you can have are when you're grinding in Seb or HS and your group wants you to pull, having the best lute you can get equipped for lulls is a big deal, and if you're in the end-game and your guild has you pulling a dragon like Sev or Fay or kiting trash in Fear, you want the best drum you can get so you run faster and have better resists.

[mangobob]

The instrument modifier is a multiplier. I haven't been online more than a couple times in the last few months, and i'm doing this off the top of my head, so these numbers won't be accurate, but it's something like this:

The store bought lute will be like modifier 16, which is 160% damage, so 1.6x(dot base damage). The maestro lute, as one example, is a modifier 21, so that would be 210% damage. Whatever instrument you want to calculate the difference for from the store-bought version, just find out the modifier and calculate/estimate. Most of them are on the wiki, but some of the wiki entries don't have modifier data on them, but basically you can separate all the instruments into three tiers-

Store bought: 16
Mid-level (MM instruments): 18? I think? It's been forever.
Kunark level: 21/22


I think the VP lute is 24 but I never got it, and I don't think there's an equivalent to that one in the way of drums or wind instruments. I think the best wind you'll get your hands on is the sky flute, which issssss... 21? Like I said, it's been a while, but most of this data is available on the wiki and really, it doesn't make any difference to actually know the numbers. The only thing you need to know is the progression of the instruments so you can get them. It's better to have better instruments, so get the best instruments you can, but rest assured in knowing while it does make a difference, it's generally not a huge game-breaker if you have the store lute vs. the MM lute. The only situations that I would say it's really extremely clutch to have the best instrument you can have are when you're grinding in Seb or HS and your group wants you to pull, having the best lute you can get equipped for lulls is a big deal, and if you're in the end-game and your guild has you pulling a dragon like Sev or Fay or kiting trash in Fear, you want the best drum you can get so you run faster and have better resists.

Great info! Thanks for the post!

[indiscriminate_hater]

is there actually a difference in using a different type of flute? i've heard conflicting reports, have never really tested that much with the songs which do use it

[falkun]

store: 1.8
mid-level: 2.1
BiS 2.3-2.6
epic: 1.8 to all concurrently, only one that mods singing.


@ antonin: wind songs are all binary, so instrument mods for those songs are pointless (you either are or are not levi/invis. I do not think the instrument mod affects charm/mez chances)

[Bristlebard]

@ antonin: wind songs are all binary

Charms and mezzes both have resist debuffs too, don't they? Would that be modified by the instrument mod? Or is the wiki wrong about that?

[zanderklocke]

^This is why the Cazic Thule flute is stupid. The sky one is sort of cool since its primary, but it's useless once a bard has their epic.

I feel like the flute wasn't thought out too well by Verant.

[stakha]

To give you a cocrete example: at 54 with the mistmoore drum my frost/flame dots hit for 58 per tick (non chasing mob) and with the nostrolo tambourine it is now 61. Nice, I guess, but not game changing really. Mobs might die two ticks faster now. My back of the napkin calculation also indicates a 6% increase in selo speed with this instrument change.

[webrunner5]

A Necro is pretty much the Champ when it comes to DoTs. A Druid is no slouch either on that front high end. Bards are just gimped on all fronts. The old saying of "Jack of all trades, master of none" applies to Bards. :p

But they are a great class played well.

[mangobob]

A Necro is pretty much the Champ when it comes to DoTs. A Druid is no slouch either on that front high end. Bards are just gimped on all fronts. The old saying of "Jack of all trades, master of none" applies to Bards. :p

But they are a great class played well.

I'm having a blast playing mine. In solo play and group play I've developed a style that doesn't require me to equip a single weapon and still be effective. I'm not entirely agreeing with masters of none however. Did you know that we can debuff magic resistance as much as an enchanter? My comparison is based on lvl 32 spell calculation. Selos is obviously the best run speed in the game, our haste is unmatched due to its ability to be stacked with spell haste and our ability to play with 0 down time while having no investment in gear isn't able to be repeated by any other class that I'm aware of (Not talking about AOE kiting btw, which I'm not a fan of personally). Our mana regeneration is unique and very beneficial in a full group environment.

All that said, I've read we are just resist bots during raids. I'm keeping a level head about our endgame potential.

[falkun]

All that said, I've read we are just resist bots during raids. I'm keeping a level head about our endgame potential.

There is no question about bard end-game potential, just yours. What will you offer whatever guild you belong to/join as a player?

There are times where I am simply a resist bot, but then there are times I'm a mana bot, times I pull, times I kite so others can pull, times I CC, times I'm fraps-questing with vision song, etc. Bards can do lots of things for raids, it will only come down to how useful will you be to your raid leader; the class is not in question.

[Menoly]

Necro + Druid + Bard = Bard pull then sit and watch things die...LOTS of things die quickly!

[Clark]

^This is why the Cazic Thule flute is stupid. The sky one is sort of cool since its primary, but it's useless once a bard has their epic.

I feel like the flute wasn't thought out too well by Verant.

A flute is never a well thought out choice. :rolleyes:

[Kender]

A Necro is pretty much the Champ when it comes to DoTs. A Druid is no slouch either on that front high end. Bards are just gimped on all fronts. The old saying of "Jack of all trades, master of none" applies to Bards. :p

But they are a great class played well.

things bards are best at

fastest run speed
best hp regen
best mana regen
best snare
best resists buffs
best at locating someones lost corpse