Best way for me to get $$$

[Whoop]

What are my best options to farm lots of plats as a 53 Nec? Are there any other options then grinding out seafurys, IG or HG? I remember Seb being a good place to farm for gems on live but is soloing even possible there for a 53 nec?

I really dont have the patience to buy/sell in EC, i fear i will only loose cash there in the long run :p

I figure i wont spend any cash on alts untill i get my hands on a fungi but 65k seems far far away at the moment...

Edit: spelling

[Pint]

Chief in droga, frenzy in guk, jboots mqs, or just keep grinding in exp grps and hope your dice are hot

[Pint]

VP medallion mqs if you have the drive

[Whoop]

Chief in droga, frenzy in guk, jboots mqs, or just keep grinding in exp grps and hope your dice are hot

Fighting for camps kinda gets old in the long run :(

[Kreylyn]

People tend to go for the "lump sum" payouts when making plat. That's good if you have ability and patience to do what's needed... compete for a camp, camp the random rare loot, then wait in ECtunnel to sell (or post it on the forums and hope someone bites). When you total the amount of time invested from start to finish though, you may be surprised by the "hourly payout" for that.

If that's not you... then another option is simply plat grinding on lower lv mobs. As just one example, Permafrost mobs drop up to 3p per kill and have a chance to drop ore 5p-50p per pop. I've done AE pulls on all mobs from just entrance to flag room, and end up with avg 100-150p. At your lv, I would expect that would probably take maybe 10 mins to clear those just letting your pet beat them down.

At conservatively 600p an hour... 125 hours = fungi. Probably quicker, but still.... It's something that you can do steadily, on your own time, here and there or grind a big session all day a few times to knock out a lot of the time investment.

Find an empty zone with mobs that drop some $ and fine steel or other well vendor selling items on a regular basis, and it will add up. They key is to be constant and steady in the kills, so you need enough spawns and reasonably decent loots.

It all depends on what you want to do.

I'm currently in a zone with mobs that drop up to 3p and some gems camping for a random really rare item. I've made almost 2x the costs of the item I'm camping for from the kill loot... still haven't seen the item I want drop. If it was the item only that was my goal, I'd just buy it at this point. Personally I enjoy the time sink of camping items for myself instead of buying them, in most situations.

Just another option...

Krey

[Swish]

I figure i wont spend any cash on alts untill i get my hands on a fungi but 65k seems far far away at the moment...

The longer you can wait the cheaper they'll be, prices continue to drop.

Tunnel fat cats on suicide watch. Speculators wonder how much longer the market can cope?

*insert closing bell sound*

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/commercials/2007/5/propel-stockmarket.jpg

[indiscriminate_hater]

definitely worth it to grind PP when items are selling so low this time of year. you could probably massacre hill giants during off-hours, and camp the granite bracer when waiting for repops, along with the other rares in rathe

[Enderenter]

Massacre Sarnak Legionnaires (and all other Sarnaks since I am not sure how the spawn cycle works there, they may all be PHs for Sarnak Leggionaires) in LOIO fort for Bracer of the Hidden? (6kish)

Upside of that camp is you can log your twink (if melee) out nearby and loot any Sarnak Earring of Station that might drop. Great for Monk, Rogue, Warrior twinks. Really any melee twink. And it isn't nearly as populated as Frenzy or Droga.

[radditsu]

Sexting with GM's used to work. Not sure anymore.

[Juevento]

Get your Chardok faction up in Droga and learn to pull.

You can charge 2k per pull.

[Whoop]

The longer you can wait the cheaper they'll be, prices continue to drop.

Tunnel fat cats on suicide watch. Speculators wonder how much longer the market can cope?

*insert closing bell sound*

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/commercials/2007/5/propel-stockmarket.jpg

Why are they droping in price? To many on the market or nerf inc? Or is it simple the fact that peeps are saving up cash for fat velius loot?

[Whoop]

Great info btw, got me thinkning of a few ideas to get rich and famous...

[Erati]

Why are they droping in price? To many on the market or nerf inc? Or is it simple the fact that peeps are saving up cash for fat velius loot?

alot of RMT bans took huge sums of plat out of the game

with plat much harder to purchase via RMT since there has been alot of suspensions and bans around it, people are less inclined to buy plat and just drop 50K -100K day 1 starting out

when prices were higher, plat was just flowing and noob items could be priced higher since people were literally just buying plat then gearing a character same day

[Whoop]

alot of RMT bans took huge sums of plat out of the game

with plat much harder to purchase via RMT since there has been alot of suspensions and bans around it, people are less inclined to buy plat and just drop 50K -100K day 1 starting out

when prices were higher, plat was just flowing and noob items could be priced higher since people were literally just buying plat then gearing a character same day


Damn it, I feel like JS - I know nothing!

[Pint]

Why are they droping in price? To many on the market or nerf inc? Or is it simple the fact that peeps are saving up cash for fat velius loot?

Its just the time of year, prices will rise again

[wwoneo]

Its just the time of year, prices will rise again

Normally this is true. However, I don't think you should make any assumptions on what will happen to the market with Velious gear coming out soon.

[Pint]

Normally this is true. However, I don't think you should make any assumptions on what will happen to the market with Velious gear coming out soon.

They are talking about fungus, also "soon" hehe

[loramin]

wiki.project1999.com/Treasure_Hunting_Guide

[Ravager]

Don't forget about the world's oldest profession.

[August]

Fastest way to make money is to tunnel rat. No lie.

Have you seen the range on a FBSS? Throughout the day they range from 7k to 9k, easily. Someone auctioning it 'has to go 7k' is going to take less. That's just the mentality of someone who needs pp now.

That's just 1 data point. There's tons more. Jade Maces can be bought for 1k and sold for 1500. Idol of the Thorned can be had for 4k and sold for 5k. RBG could probably be bought for 35k and sold for 42k.

What you want to avoid are the really big ticket items - items that only a handful of people can afford when there are options that are 'nearly' as good for much, much cheaper. CoF is a great example. Great item, but 75k is rough for a lot of people, especially when FBSS + chanter buffs caps haste on newbie chars. You can flip it, but you're holding up a ton of money on one item. These items are also more susceptible to drop. Only invest in these if you have a ton of money and can wait for the market to turn around.

So, if you're really looking to save up for something in particular, I'd suggest just bumming it in the tunnel.

[Ravager]

Fastest way to make money is to tunnel rat. No lie.

Have you seen the range on a FBSS? Throughout the day they range from 7k to 9k, easily. Someone auctioning it 'has to go 7k' is going to take less. That's just the mentality of someone who needs pp now.

That's just 1 data point. There's tons more. Jade Maces can be bought for 1k and sold for 1500. Idol of the Thorned can be had for 4k and sold for 5k. RBG could probably be bought for 35k and sold for 42k.

What you want to avoid are the really big ticket items - items that only a handful of people can afford when there are options that are 'nearly' as good for much, much cheaper. CoF is a great example. Great item, but 75k is rough for a lot of people, especially when FBSS + chanter buffs caps haste on newbie chars. You can flip it, but you're holding up a ton of money on one item. These items are also more susceptible to drop. Only invest in these if you have a ton of money and can wait for the market to turn around.

So, if you're really looking to save up for something in particular, I'd suggest just bumming it in the tunnel.

This is the reason I never sell or buy anything in EC. You gotta put up with this crap for hours on end.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Pet classes can make some good coin in sola off of fine steel and hq bricks of ore.

[August]

This is the reason I never sell or buy anything in EC. You gotta put up with this crap for hours on end.

Whether you realize it or not the people that do this are the reason the economy stays stable and is the reason that not everyone has to sit in the tunnel all day long. The idea of a floor price where it will get bought up by resellers helps guarantee items value over the course of time and prevents huge slumps. It gives the illusion of demand when supply is high as people will hold items without use intentions.

A lot of people don't understand that price is not always the main motivator for selling an item. It's demand for that item that sells it.

Let me illustrate - say it's 2 AM and you think that price alone will sell the item. You auction FBSS for 10k, no biters. You think, OK, too high, FBSS - 9k. However it's 2 AM and nobody that's on is a reseller or wants to buy the FBSS. Now it's 4 AM and you're selling FBSS for 50pp please somebody buy it!

That type of devaluation would occur all the time without a reseller market to stabilize the price. If I see a FBSS for 6k i'm snatching it up immediately because I realize that people WILL PAY more than that for it, at some indefinite time if I allow some of my wealth to become tied up in an item.


You're welcome!

[kaev]

stuff about tunnelquest

I did way to much of this shit on live back in the day. Made myself spend some time in tunnel ~ 18months ago selling smithed armor here... No more, life is too short.

[Celatus]

I did way to much of this shit on live back in the day. Made myself spend some time in tunnel ~ 18months ago selling smithed armor here... No more, life is too short.

Yup I don't care how much money I can make doing that I would rather run around sola grinding out plat than sitting in EC which should be in NFP like we did on veeshan because there is a bank there!! EC is for newbs.

[Celatus]

Whether you realize it or not the people that do this are the reason the economy stays stable and is the reason that not everyone has to sit in the tunnel all day long. The idea of a floor price where it will get bought up by resellers helps guarantee items value over the course of time and prevents huge slumps. It gives the illusion of demand when supply is high as people will hold items without use intentions.

A lot of people don't understand that price is not always the main motivator for selling an item. It's demand for that item that sells it.

Let me illustrate - say it's 2 AM and you think that price alone will sell the item. You auction FBSS for 10k, no biters. You think, OK, too high, FBSS - 9k. However it's 2 AM and nobody that's on is a reseller or wants to buy the FBSS. Now it's 4 AM and you're selling FBSS for 50pp please somebody buy it!

That type of devaluation would occur all the time without a reseller market to stabilize the price. If I see a FBSS for 6k i'm snatching it up immediately because I realize that people WILL PAY more than that for it, at some indefinite time if I allow some of my wealth to become tied up in an item.


You're welcome!


No what resellers do is perpetuate inflated prices. They help no one but themselves. I don't care even if they have great prices the leather assed tunnelquesters of which im sure most of you know wont get my business.

[Kreylyn]

Fastest way to make money is to tunnel rat. No lie.




My brother did this on live back in the day. He started the game well after I did, and started with a pally. Said the one thing he wanted more than anything was a goulbane. So I camped him one, and gifted it to him when he hit lv 18.

2 days later he /tell me to let me know he sold it. I was pissed.... till he followed up with bought another, sold it, bought another, sold it... and now has one + 10k in plat. Lol.

If you can stand the tunnel, you can definitely make some plat.

I did the same thing when bazaar was added on live sorta, because people would never compare vendor prices for their listings, they would just drop the price below anyone else selling it. I had a spreadsheet of vendor prices on items I checked and could buy from player/sell to vendor and make immediate profit. Bazaar really did screw things up. lol

Krey

[Ravager]

Whether you realize it or not the people that do this are the reason the economy stays stable and is the reason that not everyone has to sit in the tunnel all day long. The idea of a floor price where it will get bought up by resellers helps guarantee items value over the course of time and prevents huge slumps. It gives the illusion of demand when supply is high as people will hold items without use intentions.

A lot of people don't understand that price is not always the main motivator for selling an item. It's demand for that item that sells it.

Let me illustrate - say it's 2 AM and you think that price alone will sell the item. You auction FBSS for 10k, no biters. You think, OK, too high, FBSS - 9k. However it's 2 AM and nobody that's on is a reseller or wants to buy the FBSS. Now it's 4 AM and you're selling FBSS for 50pp please somebody buy it!

That type of devaluation would occur all the time without a reseller market to stabilize the price. If I see a FBSS for 6k i'm snatching it up immediately because I realize that people WILL PAY more than that for it, at some indefinite time if I allow some of my wealth to become tied up in an item.


You're welcome!

That's some kind of backward logic to think that your lowballing me is doing me favors when really it's just wasting my time.

[indiscriminate_hater]

wiki.project1999.com/Treasure_Hunting_Guide

someone needs to add SK treants to that. amazing pp for that level

[August]

That's some kind of backward logic to think that your lowballing me is doing me favors when really it's just wasting my time.

If you have the concept of a 'lowball' offer then you're not any different than a tunnel quester, you're just not as persistent or consistent.

If you have a FBSS and you're trying to get 9k for it, you are a tunnel quester. If you would accept 7k, you just want to get rid of it and get out of the tunnel.

RE: Inflated prices - they are what they are. We keep prices relatively stable. You think we hurt everyone by keeping prices high? What about people who are selling items? Do you think they want their items they camp to decrease in value? Two sides to every coin. It's about providing a consistent market of goods by stabilizing prices around accepted values. Too much inflation, or too much deflation, is bad for any economy.

[wwoneo]

Whether you realize it or not the people that do this are the reason the economy stays stable and is the reason that not everyone has to sit in the tunnel all day long. The idea of a floor price where it will get bought up by resellers helps guarantee items value over the course of time and prevents huge slumps. It gives the illusion of demand when supply is high as people will hold items without use intentions.

A lot of people don't understand that price is not always the main motivator for selling an item. It's demand for that item that sells it.

Let me illustrate - say it's 2 AM and you think that price alone will sell the item. You auction FBSS for 10k, no biters. You think, OK, too high, FBSS - 9k. However it's 2 AM and nobody that's on is a reseller or wants to buy the FBSS. Now it's 4 AM and you're selling FBSS for 50pp please somebody buy it!

That type of devaluation would occur all the time without a reseller market to stabilize the price. If I see a FBSS for 6k i'm snatching it up immediately because I realize that people WILL PAY more than that for it, at some indefinite time if I allow some of my wealth to become tied up in an item.


You're welcome!

Bringing fluidity to the market is the same bullshit excuse they gave to stockmarket supercomputers. However, P99's economy is not the same and it doesn't work in favor of the market. Also, if it was REALLY necessary to bring more fluidity to the market they could always reverse the non-global /auction change they made way back when the server pop. was much lower than it is now. That would provide increased fluidity without artificially inflating prices with resale transactions.

[Celatus]

If you have the concept of a 'lowball' offer then you're not any different than a tunnel quester, you're just not as persistent or consistent.

If you have a FBSS and you're trying to get 9k for it, you are a tunnel quester. If you would accept 7k, you just want to get rid of it and get out of the tunnel.

RE: Inflated prices - they are what they are. We keep prices relatively stable. You think we hurt everyone by keeping prices high? What about people who are selling items? Do you think they want their items they camp to decrease in value? Two sides to every coin. It's about providing a consistent market of goods by stabilizing prices around accepted values. Too much inflation, or too much deflation, is bad for any economy.

Lmao you are so full of it bro. thanks for the giggle.

[Kreylyn]

Ah, the flip sides of the coin...

the "how is SHOULD work" vs "how it DOES work" arguments.

Krey

[wwoneo]

RE: Inflated prices - they are what they are. We keep prices relatively stable. You think we hurt everyone by keeping prices high? What about people who are selling items? Do you think they want their items they camp to decrease in value?

Just because their items would devalue doesn't mean you use scrupulous means to increase their value. Also, it only changes it in terms of nominal value and NOT real value (L2 economics).

For example... Hypothetically, do you think it's ethically correct for someone to hack accounts and destroy fungi tunics to drive up the price of their own fungi?

Don't mess with an economics major, we'll theorycraft your arse all day son.

[August]

Just because their items would devalue doesn't mean you use scrupulous means to increase their value. Also, it only changes it in terms of nominal value and NOT real value (L2 economics).

For example... Hypothetically, do you think it's ethically correct for someone to hack accounts and destroy fungi tunics to drive up the price of their own fungi?

Don't mess with an economics major, we'll theorycraft your arse all day son.

The word is 'unscrupulous'. And I don't see what point you are trying to make. Do you think me buying a FBSS for 7k is unscrupulous?

If someone is willing to sell it for 7k, and i'm willing to pay it, what is the problem exactly?

Also guys, I don't flip items. I buy black sapphires and make jewelry on a pre-determined margin to make my cash. I find it much easier than flipping.

[loramin]

someone needs to add SK treants to that. amazing pp for that level

Done, thanks for the suggestion!

[Kreylyn]

I think you guys might be surprised just how stable the economy really is, not only for this server... but in comparison to live servers prior to Velious release.

Krey

[wwoneo]

The word is 'unscrupulous'. And I don't see what point you are trying to make. Do you think me buying a FBSS for 7k is unscrupulous?

If someone is willing to sell it for 7k, and i'm willing to pay it, what is the problem exactly?

Also guys, I don't flip items. I buy black sapphires and make jewelry on a pre-determined margin to make my cash. I find it much easier than flipping.

To be frank, I actually don't care that people flip items. However, I'm going to play devil's advocate to prove a point.

In the EQ economy there are no regulations to adhere by so I'm going to use an analogy.

The world's richest people come together and buy up the world's entire water supply and artificially cause limited supply by increasing the price 300%. Does this scenario sound unethical to you?

The point is that there are no regulations in place within EQ, and resellers are causing people to struggle without water.

[Blizze]

53 nec should be soloing HS basement all day to get spells and hit 60. You can start doing wings 55ish.

[fadetree]

Early on, I flipped items for about 5 months, made a ton. The people I bought from were happy. The people I sold to were happy. I was happy. Whats the problem?

The world's richest people come together and buy up the world's entire water supply and artificially cause limited supply by increasing the price 300%. Does this scenario sound unethical to you?

They wouldn't do that, because its retarded. Selling LOTS of stuff cheap makes you far more money than selling a few items really expensively. Plus the 'rich people' have to police each other to keep person a from secretly undercutting person b, and it would get nasty fast. See OPEC for more info. Besides that, you can't actually buy all the water in the world ( or any other commodity ) all at once, you have have to deal with production issues. Besides all that, when the thousands of thirsting poor people come kick your ass, you won't be making ANY money. Any evil 'rich person' would have the brains to avoid all that, and invest in politicians instead. Which is what they do. It's a ridiculous example. 'Rich people' don't sit around on piles of gold chortling evilly, they *INVEST* that shit. Gold is fucking useless anyways. So are most politicians, but yeah.

[wwoneo]

Early on, I flipped items for about 5 months, made a ton. The people I bought from were happy. The people I sold to were happy. I was happy. Whats the problem?

That's a misconception due to lack of specificity. You were all happy/relieved because you got the item/plat you wanted because of the fluidity state of the market, but as I mentioned in an earlier post the fluidity can be changed in other non-harmful ways.

Are you trying to say those people wouldn't have been happier if they received the items for even less plat?

You're trying to simplify the argument by eliminating premises that are actually there.

[Enderenter]

Nothing wrong with buying and selling. People like Bob provide a much needed service. Some people want to sit in EC and trade, some people don't.

[maskedmelon]

I think it is woefully misguided to simply presume that "resellers" exert a net positive effect on price because there is at least one critical influence on price through which resellers apply downward pressure: scarcity.

Without resellers, there would be fewer items available for sell at any given time because those who sell to the reseller do not wish to spend their time in EC. This means that it is entirely possible that suppliers could walk into EC and sell more quickly and for more money in the absence of resellers.

Of course the shift in demand caused by resellers exerts upward pressure, but the question is whether or not that overcompensates for the corresponding shift in supply.

Anecdotally if we maximize availability via a broker sales system we see prices plummet. Conversely, if eliminate distributors (resellers) entirely, we would see much more variability in pricing and I would contend a net increase in average prices as we'll due to decreased availability.

Without question, resellers provide stability and liquidity.

[wwoneo]

I think it is woefully misguided to simply presume that "resellers" exert a net positive effect on price because there is at least one critical influence on price through which resellers apply downward pressure: scarcity.

Without resellers, there would be fewer items available for sell at any given time because those who sell to the reseller do not wish to spend their time in EC. This means that it is entirely possible that suppliers could walk into EC and sell more quickly and for more money in the absence of resellers.

Of course the shift in demand caused by resellers exerts upward pressure, but the question is whether or not that overcompensates for the corresponding shift in supply.

Anecdotally if we maximize availability via a broker sales system we see prices plummet. Conversely, if eliminate distributors (resellers) entirely, we would see much more variability in pricing and I would contend a net increase in average prices as we'll due to decreased availability.

Without question, resellers provide stability and liquidity.

I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but I've already written this 2 or 3 times already...

YOU DONT NEED RESELLERS TO PROVIDE STABILITY AND LIQUIDITY!
There are other ways to provide liquidity without causing 'reseller' inflated prices.

Read my previous posts if you don't understand why.

[skipdog]

I think all of you people who subscribe to the 'resellers are unethical' line of thinking are simple-minded idiots.

[Celatus]

I think all of you people who subscribe to the 'resellers are unethical' line of thinking simple-minded idiots.

Its bad for the overall economy and health of the game. Ethics has little or nothing to do with it.

[wwoneo]

They wouldn't do that, because its retarded. Selling LOTS of stuff cheap makes you far more money than selling a few items really expensively.

This is already incorrect. More expensive items have the largest resale disparity. Therefore leading to the largest and quickest gains. Any reseller will tell you this.

Plus the 'rich people' have to police each other to keep person a from secretly undercutting person b, and it would get nasty fast. See OPEC for more info.

You're obviously not understanding the point of the analogy. In order to clarify let's say the richest person in the world (1 person, not many). Maybe that will help you get the point.

Besides that, you can't actually buy all the water in the world ( or any other commodity ) all at once, you have have to deal with production issues.

You don't have to buy ALL of the water in the world just a huge majority. Read up on the diamond market to better understand the economical situation. The idea is just horading supply to artificially increase price. It happens all the time within many different economies.

Besides all that, when the thousands of thirsting poor people come kick your ass, you won't be making ANY money. Any evil 'rich person' would have the brains to avoid all that, and invest in politicians instead. Which is what they do. It's a ridiculous example. 'Rich people' don't sit around on piles of gold chortling evilly, they *INVEST* that shit. Gold is fucking useless anyways. So are most politicians, but yeah.

I'm not even going to give a serious response to this.

[maskedmelon]

That's a misconception due to lack of specificity. You were all happy/relieved because you got the item/plat you wanted because of the fluidity state of the market, but as I mentioned in an earlier post the fluidity can be changed in other non-harmful ways.

Are you trying to say those people wouldn't have been happier if they received the items for less even less plat?

You're trying to simplify the argument by eliminating premises that are actually there.

So we could make buyers more happy by lowering prices, but how would that affect the happiness of sellers?

Might we increase the happiness of sellers by increasing the price? What effect would that have on buyers.

If we remove the reseller who brings the buyer and seller together and the transaction does not occur, who is happy?


Lastly, I've yet to read your other post, but is price depression what you are looking for? If we implemented a server wide auction channel that'd be ideal for increasing market efficiency, improving stability and decimating prices, but it would destroy an engaging meta-game in which nature has already optimized market efficiency given the parameters of the world at hand. I would not be for a change to the system unless players could fill any new rolls created.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Iron rations at 3pp/stack is unethical

[wwoneo]

Its bad for the overall economy and health of the game. Ethics has little or nothing to do with it.

The fact that it's bad for the economy and health of the game makes it an ethical issue by taking part in the resale of items.

[Sylexis]

I am okay with resellers, the problem is when they expect you to always sell low and only buy high. I have had several people reply to my declining their very lowball offers with "well fuck you then." or "piss off then." I generally stay out of EC or post extremely specific prices just to avoid resellers because of this behavior.

Product flipping is a worldwide trade and is not going away, but politeness could go a long way in fixing what feels unethical about the resellers.

[HippoNipple]

Get a job

[wwoneo]

So we could make buyers more happy by lowering prices, but how would that affect the happiness of sellers?

You're missing the point. My concern is not with wealthy neckbeard resellers who are hoarding high-end items with their large amounts of platinum. It is for the new player base and existing player base who have a more difficult time because of the insane inflation on the server that is only made worse by resale transactions.

If we remove the reseller who brings the buyer and seller together and the transaction does not occur, who is happy?

This statement has to do with the fluidity of the market which I will address in your below statement.


Lastly, I've yet to read your other post, but is price depression what you are looking for? If we implemented a server wide auction channel that'd be ideal for increasing market efficiency, improving stability and decimating prices, but it would destroy an engaging meta-game in which nature has already optimized market efficiency given the parameters of the world at hand. I would not be for a change to the system unless players could fill any new rolls created.

This is circular logic. You complain about the fluidity of the market and bringing buyers and sellers together and then you say that fixing the fluidity of the market would ruin the meta-game. It makes no sense. You either fix it, or keep it the way it is. However, if you keep the status quo then you should address the artificially inflated prices due to resale transactions.

[wwoneo]

Get a job

I'm at my job. I'm about to leave. It's slow around here at the moment.

[Ravager]

Iron rations at 3pp/stack is unethical

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/77/77014127a64d991ae9d7b323ee2c5581ecbbff7f661c6a3d6d 8478d7f96c07f4.jpg

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

YESSSSSS LOLLLL I even read it like Rod

[fadetree]

That's a misconception due to lack of specificity. You were all happy/relieved because you got the item/plat you wanted because of the fluidity state of the market, but as I mentioned in an earlier post the fluidity can be changed in other non-harmful ways.

Are you trying to say those people wouldn't have been happier if they received the items for even less plat?

You're trying to simplify the argument by eliminating premises that are actually there.

What? Are you seriously asking me if I think people would be happier if I gave items away? This is your argument?

But anyway, I know what you mean, but I personally never jacked stuff up much and I never attempted to monopolize things. Look at this way - Seller A wants to sell his shiz and get back to camping. He does not want to stand around in EC, so he halfheartedly tries to sell it a few times at a low price, thinks fuck it and just leaves. Buyer B really wants that item, but he got there after seller A left. Now he's screwed.

If I'm there, I'm willing to stand around all fucking day. So I buy Seller A's item, compensate myself for the time I'm spending by jacking it a bit, and then buyer B comes along, I'm there, he gets his item. Seller A is happy, Buyer B is happy, and I'm happy.

If I jack it too much, it won't sell. I'm all about turnover, so I don't like that. I'm trying to make money consistently, not trying to screw people. I provide a service; I should get paid for it. I do not want to price an item such that it won't move. As I said in an earlier post, selling LOTS of stuff for little profit is much better than a few items for an extreme profit.

[maskedmelon]

You're missing the point. My concern is not with wealthy neckbeard resellers who are hoarding high-end items with their large amounts of platinum. It is for the new player base and existing player base who have a more difficult time because of the insane inflation on the server that is only made worse by resale transactions.



This statement has to do with the fluidity of the market which I will address in your below statement.


This is circular logic. You complain about the fluidity of the market and bringing buyers and sellers together and then you say that fixing the fluidity of the market would ruin the meta-game. It makes no sense. You either fix it, or keep it the way it is. However, if you keep the status quo then you should address the artificially inflated prices due to resale transactions.

A couple of things:

1. I have not complained about anything. I simply described the role resellers play and the fact that I like the meta game that players have created. You appear to have either misunderstood this or intentionally misconstrued it with the straw man you cleverly debunked with your ad hominem. If I was unclear, then I apologize. I am not looking to wander in circles ^^

2. I also pointed out that resellers exert both positive and negative influences on prices and suggested it is not possible to determine the net effect. You ignored this.

3. Please elaborate on how and more importantly why we should alter market driven prices. Prior to that however, please explain how we might and ought to determine the truth of your assertion that prices are indeed artificially inflated. Artificially inflated relative to what?

4. Related to 3, you suggest that new players are negatively impacted. What if they enjoy reselling? What if they choose to camp an item of value? How might we lessen their burden and what effect would it have on others. You have also mentioned ethics several times. Is it ethical to effect change that adversely affects one population in favor of another?

Also, please note that questions are not arguments.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Fuck this thread

[indiscriminate_hater]

ITT: people with doctorates in economics duke it out over trading ethics in a 16-year-old elf simulator

god bless p99

[azeth]

What are my best options to farm lots of plats as a 53 Nec? Are there any other options then grinding out seafurys, IG or HG? I remember Seb being a good place to farm for gems on live but is soloing even possible there for a 53 nec?

I really dont have the patience to buy/sell in EC, i fear i will only loose cash there in the long run :p

I figure i wont spend any cash on alts untill i get my hands on a fungi but 65k seems far far away at the moment...

Edit: spelling

seafuries.

everything else suggested is false

[Celatus]

seafuries.

everything else suggested is false

I agree if you can find em up!

[wwoneo]

A couple of things:

1. I have not complained about anything. I simply described the role resellers play and the fact that I like the meta game that players have created. You appear to have either misunderstood this or intentionally misconstrued it with the straw man you cleverly debunked with your ad hominem. If I was unclear, then I apologize. I am not looking to wander in circles ^^

You stated the positive effects of resellers is that they bring fluidity to the market. Indirectly complaining that not having resellers would be undesirable. Then, you state that you wouldnt want global ooc/auction because it would bring more fluidity to the market. Can't have it both ways. Dont make me repeat myself again.

2. I also pointed out that resellers exert both positive and negative influences on prices and suggested it is not possible to determine the net effect. You ignored this.

I didn't ignore it. I'm clearly stating that the net effect can be determined and the outcome is a negative impact of inflated prices by resale transactions that don't benefit the majority of the server.

3. Please elaborate on how and more importantly why we should alter market driven prices. Prior to that however, please explain how we might and ought to determine the truth of your assertion that prices are indeed artificially inflated. Artificially inflated relative to what?

We ALREADY are altering market drive price through resale transactions. If you want truth to my assertion go study economics. I'm not providing tutoring you can come up with the answer yourself.

4. Related to 3, you suggest that new players are negatively impacted. What if they enjoy reselling? What if they choose to camp an item of value?

The population affected by new players reselling is trivial or non-existent (depending on how you define 'new player'). I don't believe many people buy and resell items with values below 50pp as it doesn't seem worth anybody's time doing so.

If they choose to camp an item of value has no bearing as the real value (not nominal value) of the item will be maintained.


How might we lessen their burden and what effect would it have on others. You have also mentioned ethics several times. Is it ethical to effect change that adversely affects one population in favor of another?

Also, please note that questions are not arguments.

I've already stated a possible solution. Refer back methods of bringing fluidity to the market without resellers (global ooc/auction and other possible solutions).

Is it ethical? Absolutely, refer back to my analogy. The courts/legislation do it all the time to prevent monopolies and other unfair methods of obtaining profit unethically. It affects one population in favor of another.

Think about your questions before you ask them by the way... I don't want to repeat myself.

Also, please note that questions are not arguments.

Also would like to add that I ask questions because it helps people come up with the answer for themselves.

[Gerf]

We ALREADY are altering market drive price through resale transactions. If you want truth to my assertion go study economics. I'm not providing tutoring you can come up with the answer yourself.

Think about your questions before you answer them by the way... I don't want to repeat myself.

Wow. Amazingly arrogant posts and serious misunderstanding of economics (not just from this guy). Not to mention the fact that this is a video game...

[wwoneo]

Wow. Amazingly arrogant posts and serious misunderstanding of economics (not just from this guy). Not to mention the fact that this is a video game...

Nice slander with no proof or statements to back up anything you just said. Well written. A+

P.S. This isn't RNF.

[Gerf]

Nice slander with no proof or statements to back up anything you just said. Well written. A+

I think the quote I included backed up the arrogance quite well personally.

But honestly, I'm busy doing real economic research right now, and, if I'm lucky, I will enjoy playing the game later tonight in my spare time. You can have your opinions; others can have theirs. I could bring up a lot of simple points. But what would I expect to accomplish exactly? You must take this all much more seriously than I do. I'll leave you to it.

[HippoNipple]

I'm at my job. I'm about to leave. It's slow around here at the moment.

I was referring to the OP

[Bristlebard]

god bless p99

[fastboy21]

I vote that you create the "Dial a Corpse" guild...

In all seriousness, as a necro you can make money lots of ways. Pick something that is fun for you. If you like exp'ing then don't spend all your time trying to flip items in the EC tunnel. If you like grping don't spend all your time solo'ing in HS. Its a game...play to have fun imo.

[wwoneo]

I think the quote I included backed up the arrogance quite well personally.

But honestly, I'm busy doing real economic research right now, and, if I'm lucky, I will enjoy playing the game later tonight in my spare time. You can have your opinions; others can have theirs. I could bring up a lot of simple points. But what would I expect to accomplish exactly? You must take this all much more seriously than I do. I'll leave you to it.

Arrogance? This coming from the person who claims they are all knowing but doesn't make any legitimate points. Okay buddy, you have fun with your "real economic research".

[maskedmelon]

stuff .

Ok, I am sorry we cannot come to an understanding thank you for the discussion though!

[August]

This is more than I could have bargained for, really.

[Whoop]

What the hell did you guys do to my post! :D
If i wasn't sure before i am now, ec-tunneling is not my thang. I'll guess a mix of seafurys and camping a few items will net me a fungi eventually.

Thanks ya'll for advice and fun read

[Mentathiel]

Nice slander
Libel; if you write it down, it's libel. Slander is spoken or otherwise ephemeral. Whether the statement itself was libellous is another matter, but get your words right or just use 'calumny' (which includes both) to be safe...

[maskedmelon]

What the hell did you guys do to my post! :D
If i wasn't sure before i am now, ec-tunneling is not my thang. I'll guess a mix of seafurys and camping a few items will net me a fungi eventually.

Thanks ya'll for advice and fun read

Sorry Whoop ^^; I noticed that myself and was working up a response to your questiin with how I got started when something clicked and I realized you were 53. I funded all of my characters by farming a few low level quests/drops and then, you guessed it, EC tunneling. It really is profitable if you cannot do anything else ^^ I worked my way up to $35k at L7, but it took a while. I've not reached a high enough level to offer advice on anything else. The everfrost 600p per hour that someone mentioned would be far and away better if you are starting from scratch. The best I got from questing to build some initial capital was about 150p per hour and that varied depending on how quickly I could sell the rewards.

[stakha]

ITT: people with doctorates in economics duke it out over trading ethics in a 16-year-old elf simulator

god bless p99

Nailed it, lol

[GreldorEQ]

What the hell did you guys do to my post! :D
If i wasn't sure before i am now, ec-tunneling is not my thang. I'll guess a mix of seafurys and camping a few items will net me a fungi eventually.

Thanks ya'll for advice and fun read

I do believe you have your answer. I would have to agree, farm the way you can stand to farm. Leave the drama to those who love it.

[azeth]

Here's the deal with seafuries, I am there every single day.

1. Is it packed? Yes, it can be.

2. Does it stay packed? No, and there's the rub.

When you hear people say "of SFs are packed" or "SF sucks because i cant get any kills" - these people are whom you are going to profit off of.

Doing SFs require that you lock down about 2-3 short timer SF spawns, and basically run your cycle incorporating more and more SFs as people bail.

Why are they bailing? Because they're impatient.

Why aren't you bailing? Because you're patient.

3. I make about 5,000 plat a day, sometimes almost 10k in about 4 ish hours (5k) to 10 ish hours (10k) doing SFs.

Note, I do not play 4-10 hours a day, but when I do play I'm typically in for the long haul.

4. You could have a fungi in i'd say a month of consistent SF killing

5. They're not BAD exp if youre 50-55. My magician has leveled 49-55 there.

[Glenzig]

Clicked on this thread and was reminded why I left blue for red. We're all too dumb over on red to squabble over junior college economics. Ironically, red has the more stable and affordable economy.

[Nirgon]

^ Watched Kirak Vil wander around Nek a while

Saw Verina Tomb was up (so we killed it) and apparently had been up for quite some time

MQs aren't for sale for 300k, you just join Holo raid awhile and get one, mains over alts every time :).

Speaking of alts, guild altquest groups with that group xp bonus mmm mmm good. No wonder pop is surging.

[loramin]

1. Is it packed? Yes, it can be.

2. Does it stay packed? No, and there's the rub.

When do you play? In my experience it's not just a matter of people getting impatient and leaving. That is a factor, but the time of day seems like a much bigger one. For instance 7-10EST or so seems to pretty much always be packed, whereas when I stay up late (10pm+ PST) I have much better luck (although even then sometimes it's busy).