Feminism today

[harnold]

Feminists today are nothing but a bunch of loud mouthed man-hating lesbians who complain about every little thing they possibly can.

Something must be done. Firstly, ban all feminists/lesbians from P99. Secondly, remove their right to vote. Thirdly make them all do 30 hours of yard work for the most alpha male in their community. Fourthly blind them all byzantine style.

[Polyphemous]

I think feminism is a great thing, perhaps the greatest thing to come out of the 20th century. After all, feminism gives women something to do in their free time when they aren't cooking, cleaning and taking care of the children. And if they have something to do, they aren't bitching and whining, or at least not where we can hear which is all that matters.

Seriously though, I have a problem with your suggestions. How could you tell if someone is a feminist and not just some gender confused homo playing a woodelf chick? And why would we want to ban lesbians, maybe we could get into discussions with them about how much we both love pussy. Shared interests lead to friendship!

Also, why would you only remove the right to vote from some women when all women lack the rationality to make logical decisions. It seems wrong though that such a large segment of the population would be unrepresented in our government. Perhaps give them a proxy vote that can be cast by their husband, or their father if unmarried.

[2pacalypse]

bread and circus

[GnashingOfTeeth]

BOOOM! Proof!
Only LRON says alpha male like this.

"make them all do 30 hours of yard work for the most alpha male in their community"

Hi LRON

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Posting in an Lron thread.
Did you cut off your weener yet?

[harnold]

For the last time, im not even going to acknowledge you. Lron is too busy getting his computer working for him to be me.

Anyway i was just getting done yelling at these feminists walking down my road minding their own business and it felt great.

[Bboboo]

epic bait bro

[Kimm Bare|y]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1323020/thumbs/o-KELLY-MARTIN-BRODERICK-facebook.jpg

[katrik]

^lol

[radditsu]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/dbc2268e474ff9e4d3711f162f9f7126/tumblr_mm6srvr0ut1r6w8yvo1_500.gif

[Sidelle]

Sounds like some of you would prefer one of these kind of women. :rolleyes:

http://img.mylot.com/350x350/2521659.jpg

[Kimm Bare|y]

http://i.imgur.com/PsSr5.jpg

[Formshifter]

A wild feminist appears!

http://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/wailmer.jpg

[Estolcles]

http://i.imgur.com/PsSr5.jpg

Thank god I already went to the bathroom, because that would have made me piss my pants, instead of just laughing as hard as I am.

[Patriam1066]

http://i.imgur.com/PsSr5.jpg

LOL is that scorpion rofl hahahahahhahaha

[Galelor]

LOL is that scorpion rofl hahahahahhahaha

And sub zero...

[Ahldagor]

http://feministcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-shot-2014-04-04-at-6.26.37-PM.png

[Glenzig]

http://feministcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-shot-2014-04-04-at-6.26.37-PM.png

She needs to learn how to drink milk. She's getting it everywhere. Stupid female!

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

She needs to learn how to drink milk. She's getting it everywhere. Stupid female!

Those are male tears...

[Estolcles]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a girl with her face covered, that means when I unwrap her, I can treat it like Christmas, and then just react like the face is an XBOX-ONE or a pack of underwear.

Compared to my past, underwear would be better than where I've been.

[Greegon]

Sounds like some of you would prefer one of these kind of women. :rolleyes:

http://img.mylot.com/350x350/2521659.jpg

I MEAN

she'll do all the cooking, cleaning, child raising and never defy me amirite? nice.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a girl with her face covered, that means when I unwrap her, I can treat it like Christmas, and then just react like the face is an XBOX-ONE or a pack of underwear.

Compared to my past, underwear would be better than where I've been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGE9sQGPkDc

[Locust Abortion]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-seeking-tax-increases-wealthy-010041353.html

[maskedmelon]

http://i.imgur.com/PsSr5.jpg

This made me chuckle. lol.

[Formshifter]

dat bottom right doe. 10/IED would bang

[Sidelle]

I MEAN

she'll do all the cooking, cleaning, child raising and never defy me amirite? nice.
I'm sure she'd serve you some delicious meals while hiding her smirk behind that veil.

As an added bonus she'd clean the toilet every day with your toothbrush. :D

https://www.alpo.com/media/1246/pc-lamb-rice.png

[katrik]

Why does P99 care so much about feminism..?

[Rararboker]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzzg43u8VK1qhb9mzo1_500.jpg

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Feminism in the future. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM-HJT8_esM)

[Kimm Bare|y]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1396/67/1396672673472.png

[JurisDictum]

Feminism is a catch all phrase that really isn't as focused as people (especially self-identified feminists) claim it is. I hear: "All feminism means is equal rights for women," repeated a lot. That's just utter horseshit. That's what some feminists think it means, others think it means that we need to "feminize" society. Whenever I hear some politician assuring everyone that "All feminism means is equal rights for women," it's always some 50+ woman who hasn't been to college since the 70s. Women in modern campuses are talking about how live in a "rape culture," as if it's an undisputed fact of natural science. It's also a given that the pay gap is due to discrimination, when it's been statistically proven otherwise. In fact, single women that never have kids make MORE money then single men who never have kids. The pay gap is due almost completely to individual women's decisions back up by societal norms (that they buy into).
Feminists can't agree on whether they want to be treated differently by men, or they wanted to be treated the same only in a professional setting, or they think men should act differently in general. They are also in denial about men hating. how could women hating be a wide-spread thing but men-hating near non-existent? I'm not saying all feminists hate men, but you can bet the ones that do are all feminists. My guess is the number of women in feminist movements that are outright bigoted of men is about 20%.
Anyone who spends time around feminist boards or real-life groups will notice the following hypocrisies:

Men should never pretend they understand what its like for women, but women know exactly what it's like for men.

For the most part, innocent until proven guilty. Unless its a rape trail. Then he did it, does not deserve due process, and your a rape apologist if you suggest otherwise.

If a man continues to get into abusive relationships and stays with those partners, he has issues in needs help. If a woman does the same thing, her partner has issues and there's nothing wrong with her and it could happen to anyone.

A relationship where the man is dominate is problematic and repressive. Unless he's gay of course.

[Jimjam]

I thought rape culture was a seed/oil based yogurt alternative for vegans. I didn't realise I was sexually assaulting females simply by existing until I came to p99!

[Formshifter]

I thought rape culture was a seed/oil based yogurt alternative for vegans. I didn't realise I was sexually assaulting females simply by existing until I came to p99!

Jesus Christ Mr Bundy, quit raping everyone with your rape penis words.

[Sidelle]

Feminism is a catch all phrase that really isn't as focused as people (especially self-identified feminists) claim it is. I hear: "All feminism means is equal rights for women," repeated a lot. That's just utter horseshit. That's what some feminists think it means, others think it means that we need to "feminize" society. Whenever I hear some politician assuring everyone that "All feminism means is equal rights for women," it's always some 50+ woman who hasn't been to college since the 70s. Women in modern campuses are talking about how live in a "rape culture," as if it's an undisputed fact of natural science. It's also a given that the pay gap is due to discrimination, when it's been statistically proven otherwise. In fact, single women that never have kids make MORE money then single men who never have kids. The pay gap is due almost completely to individual women's decisions back up by societal norms (that they buy into).
Feminists can't agree on whether they want to be treated differently by men, or they wanted to be treated the same only in a professional setting, or they think men should act differently in general. They are also in denial about men hating. how could women hating be a wide-spread thing but men-hating near non-existent? I'm not saying all feminists hate men, but you can bet the ones that do are all feminists. My guess is the number of women in feminist movements that are outright bigoted of men is about 20%.
Anyone who spends time around feminist boards or real-life groups will notice the following hypocrisies:

Men should never pretend they understand what its like for women, but women know exactly what it's like for men.

For the most part, innocent until proven guilty. Unless its a rape trail. Then he did it, does not deserve due process, and your a rape apologist if you suggest otherwise.

If a man continues to get into abusive relationships and stays with those partners, he has issues in needs help. If a woman does the same thing, her partner has issues and there's nothing wrong with her and it could happen to anyone.

A relationship where the man is dominate is problematic and repressive. Unless he's gay of course.
I agree with much of what you're saying here. I'm a woman and I am disgusted by most so-called feminists. I really am. Why do people gotta take a perfectly good social movement that has vastly improved womens' opportunities to make better lives for themselves for over a century -- getting the right to vote, access to education, family planning, etc -- only to hijack it and turn it into a, oh I don't know... a fucking parody? A joke? I don't even know what to call it anymore. I bet the OG feminists are rolling over in their graves, though...

Some of these women nowadays are just flat-out bat-shit crazy, making up rape stories and messing with people's lives (Lena Denham and her weird book, the UVA/Rolling Stone gang-rape bullshit -- just to name a couple). They complain about the "war on women" as they declare war against all things masculine, except for themselves of course. It's acceptable to be manly but only if you have a vagina, apparently. These types of feminists are really screwing it up for the rest of us. I mean WTF are they thinking about when they bring attention to retarded bullshit like "man-spreading"? Lol.

"Omg men take up so much room on subways, the way they sit with their legs open! Let's make this a thing and call it man-spreading."

Genius idea, bitches... :rolleyes: What a joke.

[Sidelle]

P.S. Sorry Katrik. I know you're sick of the feminist stuff. I was bored & couldn't sleep. :)

[Erydan Ouragan]

. I mean WTF are they thinking about when they bring attention to retarded bullshit like "man-spreading"? Lol.

"Omg men take up so much room on subways, the way they sit with their legs open! Let's make this a thing and call it man-spreading."

Genius idea, bitches... :rolleyes: What a joke.

To be honest, i'm a man and i noticed it's always men who do that, and i think it lacks class.

But i also noticed a lot of women put their bags or purses on seats next to them, that they don't occupy, even on crowded buses. #PurseSpreading!!!1

[Formshifter]

Its because the war is won but there still in fight mode. They've run out of legitimate issues to address, so now there trying to fabricate petty Shit to be outraged by to legitimize themselves.

[Formshifter]

Theyre*

God damn autocorrect.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Its because the war is won but there still in fight mode. They've run out of legitimate issues to address, so now there trying to fabricate petty Shit to be outraged by to legitimize themselves.

I think that to some extent, it's a valid point considering the amount of money being spent on women's issues.

Declaring that equality is achieved would translate into key feminist figures and entire organizations to lose their jobs and funding.

Kind of like scaring people with threats to national security to boost defense spending, or keep saying that marijuana is a dangerous drug to keep law enforcement budgets high.

[loramin]

Its because the war is won

So men and women get paid the same now? They can both participate in all branches of the military? Both get equal paternity/maternity leave? And they both get raped at the same rate?

C'mon, women may have gotten equality on stuff like the right to vote, but they are far from equal in our society. And that's where some of that newer feminist stuff comes in.

Want women to get raped less? Then they need to be just as dominant as men, which means letting little girls get to play with GI Joes (or making Barbies that kick ass). Or having video game where the protagonist isn't male and isn't just a sex symbol for male players.

Until little girls stop learning to be quiet, submissive, and worry about clothes like Barbie, how can they possibly be equal to the little boys who are taught to be aggressive and take what they want?

[Tenlaar]

Until little girls stop learning to be quiet, submissive, and worry about clothes like Barbie, how can they possibly be equal to the little boys who are taught to be aggressive and take what they want?

Where are you finding the women who were taught this? I'm 31 and it doesn't describe any female that I've known. And yeah yeah, elf sim, but I've known a lot.

[Tulnavara]

Until little girls stop learning to be quiet, submissive, and worry about clothes like Barbie, how can they possibly be equal to the little boys who are taught to be aggressive and take what they want?

The number of young women who are like this is less than the beta white knights who think they have to defend "womyn"

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

So men and women get paid the same now? They can both participate in all branches of the military? Both get equal paternity/maternity leave? And they both get raped at the same rate?

C'mon, women may have gotten equality on stuff like the right to vote, but they are far from equal in our society. And that's where some of that newer feminist stuff comes in.

Want women to get raped less? Then they need to be just as dominant as men, which means letting little girls get to play with GI Joes (or making Barbies that kick ass). Or having video game where the protagonist isn't male and isn't just a sex symbol for male players.

Until little girls stop learning to be quiet, submissive, and worry about clothes like Barbie, how can they possibly be equal to the little boys who are taught to be aggressive and take what they want?

Obvious troll is obvious.

[loramin]

This is the message every little girl in our society learns from an early age. Boys play with action figures, girls play with dolls. Tell me that's not still true for most children in America.

Don't you think that has some effect on both genders as they grow up? Crimes like rape have been shown to correlate with the power inequality between genders (ie. the less power women have than men in your society, the more likely they are to be raped). Similarly, things like pay disparities have also been shown to come from men being more aggressive than women.

Don't you think having toys and video games that teach little girls they too can be aggressive, dominant, and strong would help?

[loramin]

Boy's Toys: http://www.toysrus.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=13041262
Girl's Toys: http://www.toysrus.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=13041269

[Tenlaar]

Don't you think having toys and video games that teach little girls they too can be aggressive, dominant, and strong would help?

I don't think we should be teaching any children that being aggressive and trying to dominate people is the best way to go through life.

[loramin]

Heh, well obviously you don't want to go too far in that direction either. But the point is, there is a huge power imbalance in how we raise our boys vs. our girls, so to counter that imbalance you have to teach girls it's ok to be as dominant as the boys, and likewise boys should learn it's ok to be as submissive as the women. Which isn't to say you should teach either to be too dominant or too submissive.

Look, at the end of the day it's very simple: if toys teach kids about the world, how can you have two genders growing up with equal worldviews when they are segregated in to playing with different (unequal) toys?

[paulgiamatti]

Feminism is a catch all phrase

No it isn't.

that really isn't as focused as people (especially self-identified feminists) claim it is.

It's a movement in which there are varying degrees of opinions and political differences. Feminists of any level of intelligence know this, and don't go about making the claim that there is one specified, truest form of feminism.

Women in modern campuses are talking about how we live in a "rape culture," as if it's an undisputed fact of natural science.

Women do not get to walk around in our society without the fear of rape. Women are raped, and rape committed against women happens every single day of every single month of every single year. Give me a 24-hour truce during which there is no rape.

It's also a given that the pay gap is due to discrimination, when it's been statistically proven otherwise.

The pay gap has more to do with systematic/structural oppression than flagrant discrimination, although discrimination is certainly a form that oppression can take. Systematic oppression is a result of the patriarchal aspects of our society - it allows male-dominated industries and legislation to go unchecked, while keeping women subjugated and beneath the dominion of men. Although we've certainly made progress since the start of the 20th century - the ways in which oppression and subjugation occur are now often difficult to pinpoint and expose - there is still progress to be made.

In fact, single women that never have kids make MORE money then single men who never have kids. The pay gap is due almost completely to individual women's decisions back up by societal norms (that they buy into).

Systematic/structural oppression also means that women are and have always been less educated than men. This is a big contributor to the pay gap, but I'd also argue that it reinforces the very subjugation that keeps women less educated and less informed. This is why whenever I hear the argument that women statistically perform worse than men in any field, it doesn't resonate with me at all. Of course they perform worse than men do, that's the whole point of the oppression and subjugation in the first place.

Feminists can't agree on whether they want to be treated differently by men, or they wanted to be treated the same only in a professional setting, or they think men should act differently in general. They are also in denial about men hating. How could women hating be a wide-spread thing but men-hating near non-existent? I'm not saying all feminists hate men, but you can bet the ones that do are all feminists.

According to whom? You?

My guess is the number of women in feminist movements that are outright bigoted of men is about 20%.

A best-guess percentage pulled out of thin air really doesn't mean anything.

Anyone who spends time around feminist boards or real-life groups will notice the following hypocrisies:

Men should never pretend they understand what its like for women, but women know exactly what it's like for men.

For the most part, innocent until proven guilty. Unless its a rape trail. Then he did it, does not deserve due process, and your a rape apologist if you suggest otherwise.

If a man continues to get into abusive relationships and stays with those partners, he has issues in needs help. If a woman does the same thing, her partner has issues and there's nothing wrong with her and it could happen to anyone.

A relationship where the man is [dominant] is problematic and [oppressive]. Unless he's gay of course.

That's strange, I spend a lot of time around feminists and haven't noticed any of these hypocrisies. Not a single one.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I'm just gonna let you guys keep bringing up long debunked claims (pay gap lol) and blow them all the fuck out when I get home tonight.

This is gonna be fun.

[katrik]

P.S. Sorry Katrik. I know you're sick of the feminist stuff. I was bored & couldn't sleep. :)

It's ok. Could be worse.

[paulgiamatti]

I think I'm just gonna put you on ignore then. Everything you've attempted to contribute to this conversation has been completely ridiculous and delusional, and I'm kinda just done trying to take you seriously or understand you at this point.

It's obvious you're not interested in having an actual conversation anyway. It seems like this is more about trolling and getting people angry than about shedding light on an actual, real issue that exists outside of a message board.

So yeah, I think I'm done with Kagatob.

[Formshifter]

So men and women get paid the same now? They can both participate in all branches of the military? Both get equal paternity/maternity leave? And they both get raped at the same rate?

C'mon, women may have gotten equality on stuff like the right to vote, but they are far from equal in our society. And that's where some of that newer feminist stuff comes in.

Want women to get raped less? Then they need to be just as dominant as men, which means letting little girls get to play with GI Joes (or making Barbies that kick ass). Or having video game where the protagonist isn't male and isn't just a sex symbol for male players.

Until little girls stop learning to be quiet, submissive, and worry about clothes like Barbie, how can they possibly be equal to the little boys who are taught to be aggressive and take what they want?


Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, because people have said more ridiculous things in all seriousness.


Men and women get paid the same under the same circumstances. The numbers youre looking at are taking into account the average pay by gender but the flaw lies in the fact that they take into account the entire population for each gender based on the census. More women choose to stay at home to be moms or simply dont have to work, and if youve ever been to school you;d know that throwing a 0 into the numbers used for an average will drop it noticeably.


Yes men and women can both join any branch of the military, as there isnt any gender discrimination there either. Although men are required to sign up for the draft in order to get things like the right to vote, a driver's license, mail, social security ect whereas women are given these things without any sort of participation in selective services.


Rape is personal. Rape isn't a systemic thing, therefor it isn't "oppression" or "inequality". It's a terrible thing -there's no question about that- but the government doesnt mandate or sanction rape or impose the threat of it by any law. Rape is a people issue, not just a women's issue. It has always happened, it always will happen. I can't think of a single mammalian species where rape doesnt occur. It's one of those ugly parts of nature, though that doesn't mean it should happen. There are plenty of stupid people out there and theyre breeding at an alarming rate. Perhaps there's something that you as a feminist could do to decrease the instances of rape. No, put down your picket sign that says "if youre a man youre a rapist" and go get a concealed carry permit. Learn to use a gun. On the off chance that you ever happen to meet a rapist actively trying to rape you, blow a hole through him. It's kind of hard to maintain an erection when you're bleeding to death. Blood pressure, you see..


Yes, you can vote. You have the option to go to whichever school you want (and are accepted to which is based on your GPA, not your DNA). You can pursue whichever career you so choose and are qualified for. How exactly are you unequal in society? Even laws are tipped in your favor.



Lol if little girls want to play with G.I. Joes, good for them. Don't forget about natural instinct and the inherit gender roles they steer one gender or another towards. Little girls are naturally inclined to be more interested in that doll than that toy sword. That's not to say that the opposite preference doesn't happen. It does, but much less frequently than the former. Playing with barbies or legos isn't going to make you any more or less susceptible to rape. That's ridiculous. As for female video game protagonists? Really?.. It's a vastly male market (which is just beginning to really change) and -going back to that natural instinct stuff- sex sells. The one point to even existing is to mate to sustain whichever species you're part of. Humans are hard-wired to want to mate. But what about the societal pressure on men to look a certain way? Should I blame weight lifting and hygiene on the matriarchy?





Little boys aren't taught to be aggressive and take what they want, and if you have kids, i certainly hope you dont rear yours that way. Little boys are taught "ladies first". Little girls are more often pampered, so talk to their parents not the "patriarchy". And again going back to that pesky nature thing, self adornment. Both genders have been doing it since we first realized that clean clothes and shiny shit here and there looked good. Women especially are inclined to this sort of behavior. Self adornment is a way of increasing one's chances of finding a mate, whether it's to maybe hide some of your less than desirable genetic traits, or simply accentuate your good ones.



You arent mad at men or the government, your beef is with nature. (And there's nothing wrong with being a woman, so quit feeling so insecure)




P.S. DAT ASS
http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/metroid-samus-ass-video-game-chicks-13605240100.jpg

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I think I'm just gonna put you on ignore then. Everything you've attempted to contribute to this conversation has been completely ridiculous and delusional, and I'm kinda just done trying to take you seriously or understand you at this point.

It's obvious you're not interested in having an actual conversation anyway. It seems like this is more about trolling and getting people angry than about shedding light on an actual, real issue that exists outside of a message board.

So yeah, I think I'm done with Kagatob.

You've not presented a single sourced fact throughout the entire discussion (in either thread) your entire argument hinges on feelings and not facts, you even ignore/facts that have been presented multiple times to you while you keep pushing your tired narrative.

The irony is that you are an atheist. You are using the exact same arguments that creationists use, simply substitute "god did it" with "blame the patriarchy" and replace faith with feelings.

[paulgiamatti]

Women do not get to walk around in our society without the fear of rape. Women are raped, and rape committed against women happens every single day of every single month of every single year. Give me a 24-hour truce during which there is no rape.

This is not a narrative, folks. This is reality. Anyone with a single grain of sense can recognize how sickly and impoverished someone's mind has become when they try to pass this off as a narrative that exists to serve some #killallmen agenda.

Arthur Chu was absolutely right about people like this, so I'll link his article again for those who didn't get to read it in the other thread:

The Plight of the Kagatob: Why so many awkward, shy guys end up hating feminism (http://www.salon.com/2015/01/10/the_plight_of_the_bitter_nerd_why_so_many_awkward_ shy_guys_end_up_hating_feminism/)

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

This is not a narrative, folks. This is reality. Anyone with a single grain of sense can recognize how sickly and impoverished someone's mind has become when they try to pass this off as a narrative that exists to serve some #killallmen agenda.

Arthur Chu was absolutely right about people like this, so I'll link his article again for those who didn't get to read it in the other thread:

The Plight of the Kagatob: Why so many awkward, shy guys end up hating feminism (http://www.salon.com/2015/01/10/the_plight_of_the_bitter_nerd_why_so_many_awkward_ shy_guys_end_up_hating_feminism/)

I didn't even read it. Chuchu train wrote it? Holy shit that adds an entire different convention of fuckedry.

He raped a dude you know.

[Ahldagor]

Egos clinging to relevance while watching their jobs circle down the drain. Anyone consider why the current feminist movement is academically driven and not widely seen in city streets?

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Dimension*

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Arthur Chu interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=098t08Ow6TQ)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0Q0TmKIIAM6VXl.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2UlD1kCAAETPXj.png
http://thefinalwager.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Chu-Chu-Train.png

[haksum]

I'm a woman...

I don't forumquest that hard so not knowing if you are a woman au natural or one of these P99 'women' makes it difficult to weigh your opinion in these discussions.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/4e54bb1d94155b93f649f56e4e8ff7e4/tumblr_nel4c8Elwr1tsmga7o1_500.png
Chuchu

[loramin]

Let me start by saying that I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, because people have said more ridiculous things in all seriousness.
I'm serious, no trolling here.

Men and women get paid the same under the same circumstances. The numbers youre looking at are taking into account the average pay by gender but the flaw lies in the fact that they take into account the entire population for each gender based on the census. More women choose to stay at home to be moms or simply dont have to work, and if youve ever been to school you;d know that throwing a 0 into the numbers used for an average will drop it noticeably.

So your argument is that the entirety of the wage gap between men and women can be explained by women being stay at home moms?
A 2010 study by Catalyst, a nonprofit that works to expand opportunities for women in business, of male and female MBA graduates found that after controlling for career aspirations, parental status, years of experience, industry, and other variables, male graduates are more likely to be assigned jobs of higher rank and responsibility and earn, on average, $4,600 more than women in their first post-MBA jobs.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United _States



Yes men and women can both join any branch of the military, as there isnt any gender discrimination there either. Although men are required to sign up for the draft in order to get things like the right to vote, a driver's license, mail, social security ect whereas women are given these things without any sort of participation in selective services.

I misspoke (sorry, not a military person): instead of "branch" I meant "division" or "unit" or something. But women definitely can NOT do everything men can in the military:
ARMY SPECIAL FORCES QUALIFICATIONS
To become part of the Army's Green Berets, you need to be mentally and physically tough, endure difficult training and face challenges head-on. In addition, to qualify for the Special Forces contract you must meet the following criteria:
Be a male, age 20-30 (Special Forces positions are not open to women)
http://www.military.com/special-operations/joining-the-army-special-forces.html


Rape is personal. Rape isn't a systemic thing, therefor it isn't "oppression" or "inequality".
So what if there was a mass clown-raping spree, and suddenly anyone with a red nose had to live in far more fear of being raped than everyone else; would it just be a "personal" issue for those clowns, or would it be a systemic clown problem?

EVERY woman is affected by rape, even if they are never themselves raped, because they have to live in fear of it. They are taught not to be alone at night, not to let themselves be alone with men, etc. It's like when police murder black people: they don't have to murder every black person to make black people start fearing the police.

It has always happened, it always will happen. I can't think of a single mammalian species where rape doesnt occur. It's one of those ugly parts of nature, though that doesn't mean it should happen.
And yet in societies where women are more equal the rape rate goes down, and in societies where women are less equal it goes up. Maybe it's NOT just an inherent, unavoidable thing, maybe it has to do with our societal gender roles.

Lol if little girls want to play with G.I. Joes, good for them. Don't forget about natural instinct and the inherit gender roles they steer one gender or another towards. Little girls are naturally inclined to be more interested in that doll than that toy sword.
How many barbies did you play with as a child? Children are socialized in to their gender roles from a very early age: if you track babies eye movements, you will find they pay more attention to men in women's clothing or vice versa, because before they can even speak they've already learned gender roles.

I promise you, there was nothing out on the savanah when we were evolving that looked like GI Joe or Barbie ;)


Playing with barbies or legos isn't going to make you any more or less susceptible to rape. That's ridiculous. As for female video game protagonists?
So you don't think little girls practicing child rearing, dress up, baking, etc. while little boys practicing war, robots, etc. is going to have any effect whatsoever on how those two kids grow up? Really?

Little boys aren't taught to be aggressive and take what they want,
Then why do so many of them commit rape? There was a recent study done that asked "if you knew you would never get caught", would you A) "rape", and B) force a woman to have sex with you. Something like a third of the men answered yes to B), so clearly we as a society are teaching them something.

[loramin]

P.S. This is the study I'm referring to:
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/01/lots-of-men-dont-think-rape-is-rape.html

[Formshifter]

I'm serious, no trolling here.



So your argument is that the entirety of the wage gap between men and women can be explained by women being stay at home moms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United _States




I misspoke (sorry, not a military person): instead of "branch" I meant "division" or "unit" or something. But women definitely can NOT do everything men can in the military:

http://www.military.com/special-operations/joining-the-army-special-forces.html



So what if there was a mass clown-raping spree, and suddenly anyone with a red nose had to live in far more fear of being raped than everyone else; would it just be a "personal" issue for those clowns, or would it be a systemic clown problem?

EVERY woman is affected by rape, even if they are never themselves raped, because they have to live in fear of it. They are taught not to be alone at night, not to let themselves be alone with men, etc. It's like when police murder black people: they don't have to murder every black person to make black people start fearing the police.


And yet in societies where women are more equal the rape rate goes down, and in societies where women are less equal it goes up. Maybe it's NOT just an inherent, unavoidable thing, maybe it has to do with our societal gender roles.


How many barbies did you play with as a child? Children are socialized in to their gender roles from a very early age: if you track babies eye movements, you will find they pay more attention to men in women's clothing or vice versa, because before they can even speak they've already learned gender roles.

I promise you, there was nothing out on the savanah when we were evolving that looked like GI Joe or Barbie ;)



So you don't think little girls practicing child rearing, dress up, baking, etc. while little boys practicing war, robots, etc. is going to have any effect whatsoever on how those two kids grow up? Really?


Then why do so many of them commit rape? There was a recent study done that asked "if you knew you would never get caught", would you A) "rape", and B) force a woman to have sex with you. Something like a third of the men answered yes to B), so clearly we as a society are teaching them something.

Do you blame men for you being wrong?

[loramin]

Do you blame men for you being wrong?

Well before I answer that, when did you stop beating your wife?

[2pacalypse]

serious question, is anyone here actually pathetic enough to have read every post in this thread? i am pleased to say i did not complete reading even OP fully before penning this reply

[Formshifter]

I'm serious, no trolling here.



So your argument is that the entirety of the wage gap between men and women can be explained by women being stay at home moms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United _States




I misspoke (sorry, not a military person): instead of "branch" I meant "division" or "unit" or something. But women definitely can NOT do everything men can in the military:

http://www.military.com/special-operations/joining-the-army-special-forces.html



So what if there was a mass clown-raping spree, and suddenly anyone with a red nose had to live in far more fear of being raped than everyone else; would it just be a "personal" issue for those clowns, or would it be a systemic clown problem?

EVERY woman is affected by rape, even if they are never themselves raped, because they have to live in fear of it. They are taught not to be alone at night, not to let themselves be alone with men, etc. It's like when police murder black people: they don't have to murder every black person to make black people start fearing the police.


And yet in societies where women are more equal the rape rate goes down, and in societies where women are less equal it goes up. Maybe it's NOT just an inherent, unavoidable thing, maybe it has to do with our societal gender roles.


How many barbies did you play with as a child? Children are socialized in to their gender roles from a very early age: if you track babies eye movements, you will find they pay more attention to men in women's clothing or vice versa, because before they can even speak they've already learned gender roles.

I promise you, there was nothing out on the savanah when we were evolving that looked like GI Joe or Barbie ;)



So you don't think little girls practicing child rearing, dress up, baking, etc. while little boys practicing war, robots, etc. is going to have any effect whatsoever on how those two kids grow up? Really?


Then why do so many of them commit rape? There was a recent study done that asked "if you knew you would never get caught", would you A) "rape", and B) force a woman to have sex with you. Something like a third of the men answered yes to B), so clearly we as a society are teaching them something.

I'm serious, no trolling here.



So your argument is that the entirety of the wage gap between men and women can be explained by women being stay at home moms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United _States




I misspoke (sorry, not a military person): instead of "branch" I meant "division" or "unit" or something. But women definitely can NOT do everything men can in the military:

http://www.military.com/special-operations/joining-the-army-special-forces.html



So what if there was a mass clown-raping spree, and suddenly anyone with a red nose had to live in far more fear of being raped than everyone else; would it just be a "personal" issue for those clowns, or would it be a systemic clown problem?

EVERY woman is affected by rape, even if they are never themselves raped, because they have to live in fear of it. They are taught not to be alone at night, not to let themselves be alone with men, etc. It's like when police murder black people: they don't have to murder every black person to make black people start fearing the police.


And yet in societies where women are more equal the rape rate goes down, and in societies where women are less equal it goes up. Maybe it's NOT just an inherent, unavoidable thing, maybe it has to do with our societal gender roles.


How many barbies did you play with as a child? Children are socialized in to their gender roles from a very early age: if you track babies eye movements, you will find they pay more attention to men in women's clothing or vice versa, because before they can even speak they've already learned gender roles.

I promise you, there was nothing out on the savanah when we were evolving that looked like GI Joe or Barbie ;)



So you don't think little girls practicing child rearing, dress up, baking, etc. while little boys practicing war, robots, etc. is going to have any effect whatsoever on how those two kids grow up? Really?


Then why do so many of them commit rape? There was a recent study done that asked "if you knew you would never get caught", would you A) "rape", and B) force a woman to have sex with you. Something like a third of the men answered yes to B), so clearly we as a society are teaching them something.

Being stay at home moms is part of it, yes. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some women who got their MBAs simply chose to start a family and not work because their husbands make enough for them to do that? Did you consider that women (because of genetic predispositions- again) are more likely to pursue careers like teaching, which have lower salaries than say business? Also that study by a feminist group DEFINITELY isnt biased or flawed in a way that would support the claims of feminists lol..


People who are raped are affected by rape. What youre saying devalues what they've been through by saying you suffer from the same thing. That's pretty narcissistic of you. When a cop shoots a black person, its because they're doing something like attacking a cop after robbing a convenience store. Not because theyre black. If you don't attack cops, you dont have to worry.



As far as the military goes.. Do you think you'd actually enjoy being shot at? I can tell you from experience it isn't very pleasant to have pieces of metal coming at you faster than the speed of sound. And you went so far as to mention special forces specifically lol. You would fucking die in training if you went up for marine recon. Men and women are different physically. You cannot deny that, nor can you reasonably blame men for evolution. Your testosterone levels are dwarfed by male standards. Testosterone is the hormone that promotes muscle growth and aggressiveness. Women simply aren't designed for the same levels of physical exertion as men. A combat zone devoid of backup is not the place for you to get that fact through your head.



I promise you, there was nothing out on the savanah when we were evolving that looked like GI Joe or Barbie ;)



You're really proving my point about natural disposition here. Back when we were evolving women were still women, even without barbies. It wasn't like everyone was butch before the invention of the doll. In fact i can almost guarantee that instances of rape were FAR more common then. Let's use your logic and say that barbie dolls actually decrease the chances of someone being raped.



You say maybe women should be more aggressive and take what they want like supposedly males are taught to do, yet all you do is cry about it in an elf sim forum in stead of taking your own advice. If there ARE women-specific issues that need to be addressed, maybe its women's fault for not doing anything but whining about them.


Then why do so many of them commit rape? There was a recent study done that asked "if you knew you would never get caught", would you A) "rape", and B) force a woman to have sex with you. Something like a third of the men answered yes to B), so clearly we as a society are teaching them something.


Or maybe your totally 130% legit non-biased definitely not fabricating results to push a political agenda feminist organizations are just lying to rustle your petticoat because that's how they make money. "so many of them" don't commit rape. I've known hundreds of other males and none of us are or were rapists.. So where are these frothing hordes of chest-beating rapist baboons you're referring to?

Susan B Anthony would slap the teeth out of you. Youre a satirical caricature of actual feminism and you should be absolutely ashamed.

[paulgiamatti]

I've known hundreds of other males and none of us are or were rapists.. So where are these frothing hordes of chest-beating rapist baboons you're referring to?

Wow, talk about missing the point. That thing flew so high over your head it has officially left orbit.

[2pacalypse]

serious question, is anyone here actually pathetic enough to have read every post in this thread? i am pleased to say i did not complete reading even OP fully before penning this reply

holy shit checking up on replies to this led me appx this far down the following post before I noped:

Being stay at home moms is part of it, yes. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some women who got their MBAs simply chose to start a family and not work because their husbands make enough for them to do that? Did you consider that women (because of genetic predispositions- again) are more likely to pursue careers like teaching

lololol:o:o:o:o

[2pacalypse]

Being stay at home moms is part of it, yes. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some women who got their MBAs simply chose to start a family and not work because their husbands make enough for them to do that? Did you consider that women (because of genetic predispositions- again) are more likely to pursue careers like teaching

memorializing this 1

[Formshifter]

Well before I answer that, when did you stop beating your wife?

Why would i beat my wife?

[Big_Japan]

thread is like that scene in 2001 where the 2 groups of guys in ape suits face each other off at the watering hole

[golten]

P99 is full of lonely, horny virgin men, with so much sperm built up its starting to cloud their judgement. if you think women are useless, then you should kill yourself, as your mother, unfortunately, brought you into this world.

Trust me original poster and trolls to follow, we all wish she hadn't. youre carbon, phosphorus, and sulfur oxygen would be better put to use as fertilizer =)

[Big_Japan]

P99 is full of lonely, horny virgin men, with so much sperm built up its starting to cloud their judgement. if you think women are useless, then you should kill yourself, as your mother, unfortunately, brought you into this world.

Trust me original poster and trolls to follow, we all wish she hadn't. youre carbon, phosphorus, and sulfur oxygen would be better put to use as fertilizer =)

the mad is strong with this sperg :cool:

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Considering these feminists don't even have a grasp over basic math, it's no wonder they consistently ignore all relevant statistics. I wish I could say I was surprised that they still believe the wage gap is a thing.

[Formshifter]

Found a picture of golten

http://www.pcmacmd.com/images/Projector%20Repair%20NY.jpg

[bouncerr 2.0]

who gives a fuck

[loramin]

Being stay at home moms is part of it, yes. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some women who got their MBAs simply chose to start a family and not work because their husbands make enough for them to do that? Did you consider that women (because of genetic predispositions- again) are more likely to pursue careers like teaching, which have lower salaries than say business?

As I quoted and bolded "controlled for career aspirations, parental status, years of experience, industry." That means that even after you consider all the things you just mentioned, the study's authors still found disparities in pay.

People who are raped are affected by rape. What youre saying devalues what they've been through by saying you suffer from the same thing. That's pretty narcissistic of you.
Huh?

When a cop shoots a black person, its because they're doing something like attacking a cop after robbing a convenience store. Not because theyre black. If you don't attack cops, you dont have to worry.
Actually, if you're black you do have to worry. This is why folks are so upset: there have been numerous instances of black people who didn't attack cops getting killed by them. But it's easy not to notice that fact when you're white and don't have to worry about giving your children "the talk (http://www.salon.com/2014/08/22/how_do_you_explain_racism_to_your_black_son_partne r/)".

As far as the military goes.. Do you think you'd actually enjoy being shot at?

You would fucking die in training if you went up for marine recon.

Men and women are different physically. You cannot deny that, nor can you reasonably blame men for evolution.

You've got me: I would make a bad soldier, and men and women differ physically. Point conceded.

Women simply aren't designed for the same levels of physical exertion as men. A combat zone devoid of backup is not the place for you to get that fact through your head.
See, that's where you're being sexist and you lose me. Men have been claiming that women have no place on the battlefield for centuries, but warrior women go back as far as the (real life) Amazons.
There are hardcore (much more hardcore than me or probably even you) women out there. Just one example:

http://e9bbcba794ec60672475-693158ff2c1c99d0e4a41d57d491843d.r93.cf2.rackcdn.c om/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Cyborg-vs-Yamanaka_5027-460x270.jpg

That's Cristiane Justino ("Chris Cyborg"). I've seen her fight live, and I dare you to tell me that she couldn't cut it as a SEAL.

You're really proving my point about natural disposition here. Back when we were evolving women were still women, even without barbies. It wasn't like everyone was butch before the invention of the doll. In fact i can almost guarantee that instances of rape were FAR more common then. Let's use your logic and say that barbie dolls actually decrease the chances of someone being raped.
Ok, so there are only two possible kinds of society: barbie-playing ones, and medieval ones. Any other type of society has never existed and never can exist ...

You say maybe women should be more aggressive and take what they want like supposedly males are taught to do
No, I said we should raise both genders to be equally aggressive ...

,If there ARE women-specific issues that need to be addressed, maybe its women's fault for not doing anything but whining about them.
Well, there is that whole thing about the men (almost exclusively) doing the raping. Also, does this mean your against helping any oppressed peoples anywhere, because they should just help themselves? You would have been a real popular guy when the Nazis were doing their thing ("those French should stop whining about their problems and just fix the Nazis themselves!")

Or maybe your totally 130% legit non-biased definitely not fabricating results to push a political agenda feminist organizations are just lying to rustle your petticoat because that's how they make money. "so many of them" don't commit rape. I've known hundreds of other males and none of us are or were rapists.. So where are these frothing hordes of chest-beating rapist baboons you're referring to?

Susan B Anthony would slap the teeth out of you. Youre a satirical caricature of actual feminism and you should be absolutely ashamed.
Thanks Mr. Susan B. Anthony scholar. I couldn't make much sense of the rest of that.

[bouncerr 2.0]

care alert over 9000 ^^

[loramin]

Why would i beat my wife?

That was me insulting your pathetic retort ("Do you blame men for you being wrong?"). When one has no real argument to make, the best they can do is ask no-win questions (the classic example being "when did you stop beating your wife?").

[paulgiamatti]

A shocking number of elf simulator forum trolls are completely detached from reality, news at 9.

[Formshifter]

That was me insulting your pathetic retort ("Do you blame men for you being wrong?"). When one has no real argument to make, the best they can do is ask no-win questions (the classic example being "when did you stop beating your wife?").

I wasn't at my computer so i couldn't really give you a real response at the time, but i just wanted to reiterate that you were wrong.



Wanna know why the cyborg lady cagefighter is a cyborg lady cagefighter? Steroids.



She is on steroids. She has, on a chemical level made herself a man.

[Formshifter]

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/003/711/524/hi-res-e31b955e324e717df9163d6cae8bd4d5_crop_north.jpg?w= 630&h=420&q=75



I mean holy shit. She looks like a fucking neanderthal she's juicing so hard.

[bouncerr 2.0]

look like the lady from lizard lick towing

[radditsu]

The fuck is that thing?

[2pacalypse]

so ur saying we need an army of cyborg lady cagefighters to staff our new all-female brown ppl execution squads

[loramin]

She is on steroids. She has, on a chemical level made herself a man.

So I say some women are capable of joining special forces, and you say they aren't. When I provide examples of a woman who proves you wrong, you avoid the issue by claiming she's on steroids.

Nice tautology there: all women are either incapable or on steroids, so your point can never be proven wrong!

There's not really much point in talking to someone who already knows the truth about every woman in the world's capabilities/steroid usage, so you "win".

[loramin]

so ur saying we need an army of cyborg lady cagefighters to staff our new all-female brown ppl execution squads

Finally someone gets it!

[2pacalypse]

lol, "tautology". Look at that bitch, she is clearly on roids. You don't need to be on some didactic method shit to see it. Take your libarts vocabulary home plz and join the real world

[Formshifter]

So I say some women are capable of joining special forces, and you say they aren't. When I provide examples of a woman who proves you wrong, you avoid the issue by claiming she's on steroids.

Nice tautology there: all women are either incapable or on steroids, so your point can never be proven wrong!

There's not really much point in talking to someone who already knows the truth about every woman in the world's capabilities/steroid usage, so you "win" Also I secretly wish i had a penis.

Remember how i said testosterone is responsible for muscle growth? Yeah.. Thats what anabolic steroids are. Notice how big she is, and how the androgenic effects are blatantly obvious with her?


Steroids.


Put her in a cage with a male fighter. See what happens.

[2pacalypse]

Finally someone gets it!

only a feminist could exclaim in agreement when i sarcastically state we should be chemically modifying women into monstrous killing machines to satisfy gender quotas

[Formshifter]

only a feminist could exclaim in agreement when i sarcastically state we should be chemically modifying women into monstrous killing machines to satisfy gender quotas

Hell they might even start raping people.



To get an idea of how many women actually want to be in combat, go around to any paintball field in your area and count how many women are there to play.

[loramin]

only a feminist could exclaim in agreement when i sarcastically state we should be chemically modifying women into monstrous killing machines to satisfy gender quotas

Hey feminists have a sense of humor too; it was a funny post.

[Formshifter]

Hey feminists have a sense of humor too; it was a funny post.

No they don't thats why they're feminists.

[loramin]

To get an idea of how many women actually want to be in combat, go around to any paintball field in your area and count how many women are there to play.

So why are there so few women on the paintball field? Could it maybe have something to do with the fact that boys have been playing with guns since they were old enough to carry them, while girls were given Barbies and bedazzlers?

Yet, despite the deck being stacked against it, there are still women who want to join the armed forces, including the special forces (perhaps because they had lots of brothers and weren't limited to traditionally "girly" toys).

Now, imagine if all little girls got to play with guns too: when they grow up, how many more do you think you'd see when you play paintball?

[Formshifter]

So why are there so few women on the paintball field? Could it maybe have something to do with the fact that boys have been playing with guns since they were old enough to carry them, while girls were given Barbies and bedazzlers?

Yet, despite the deck being stacked against it, there are still women who want to join the armed forces, including the special forces (perhaps because they had lots of brothers and weren't limited to traditionally "girly" toys).

Now, imagine if all little girls got to play with guns too: when they grow up, how many more do you think you'd see when you play paintball?

Lol there are tons of women including my little sister who have been "playing" with guns (the fact that you call it playing is evidence enough that you shouldnt be in the military) since they were big enough to handle the recoil. She carries a gun, and has some nice big stay-at-homes, but has zero interest in getting shot at in whichever 3rd world country we're bullying this week. Just like tons of other women.



Do you think we need more female garbage truck drivers or plumbers? Im sure literally dozens of women are chomping at the bit to get a shot at one of those male-exclusive jobs that will hire whoever qualifies regardless of gender.



Yknow why little girls play house and shit? It's because they want to. The little girls that dont want to are running around with their stick swords play fighting with the boys who wanted to do that too.

[Formshifter]

Back when i played paintball i saw 2 women in probably 5 years of weekly play. One was the wife of a guy who played, and just hung out in the staging area texting, and the other was a very out of place girl who was probably trying to impress the guy(read: rapist) she was dating. There was no sign saying "no women allowed". There was no way women didn't know paintball was a thing. You didnt have to stick your dick in the door to open it. The only thing that was stopping then was Freedom of choice. Crazy, right? women having freedom lol. I must be high.

[loramin]

Yknow why little girls play house and shit? It's because they want to. The little girls that dont want to are running around with their stick swords play fighting with the boys who wanted to do that too.
Maybe you missed it earlier, so I'll repeat: they've done studies on infants who can't even speak yet, and those infants know (you can see them paying more attention) when someone is violating gender roles. For instance, if a man wears lipstick or a dress, the baby will pay more attention to him because the baby knows what men and women are expected to do.

Now, how can you possibly claim that such a child isn't influenced by those gender roles? In other words, how can you be so certain that it's just about little girls "wanting" one thing and little boys "wanting" another, when both have been taught exactly what a boy should want and what a girl should want since before they could speak?

[paulgiamatti]

You must be, for missing the point so egregiously. And I don't think loramin meant actual, real guns.

[Formshifter]

Maybe you missed it earlier, so I'll repeat: they've done studies on infants who can't even speak yet, and those infants know (you can see them paying more attention) when someone is violating gender roles. For instance, if a man wears lipstick or a dress, the baby will pay more attention to him because the baby knows what men and women are expected to do.

Now, how can you possibly claim that such a child isn't influenced by those gender roles? In other words, how can you be so certain that it's just about little girls "wanting" one thing and little boys "wanting" another, when both have been taught exactly what a boy should want and what a girl should want since before they could speak?

Goodness gracious me maybe it's idk.. GENETIC lol

[paulgiamatti]

Are you aware that genes are affected by environmental factors and early childhood experiences?

[loramin]

Goodness gracious me maybe it's idk.. GENETIC lol

Yes, it's genetic: it is in our DNA that men cannot wear dresses or lipstick (even though men wore dress-like garments in past eras), so that is why the babies pay attention when they do. Society and its gender expectations have NO impact whatsoever on infants or children.

I give up, you "win".

[Formshifter]

Yes, it's genetic: it is in our DNA that men cannot wear dresses or lipstick (even though men wore dress-like garments in past eras), so that is why the babies pay attention when they do. Society and its gender expectations have NO impact whatsoever on infants or children.

I give up, you "win".

Or perhaps it's "hmm, that isn't what daddy normally wears. This is new to me. I should investigate." Not, "How obscene! This truly rubs my infant sensibilities the wrong way! Father musnt dress like a women should he wish to be respected by his peers!"

[Big_Japan]

Are you aware that genes are affected by environmental factors and early childhood experiences?

You need the word 'expression' in a key spot up above to not come off like a total retard here breh.

[maskedmelon]

Peeps, I hate to end the fun, but dominance, aggression and masculinity in general (for both sexes) are indeed genetic and are largely established via the level of androgen exposure in the second trimester of pregnancy. Google "digit ratio" get a good night's sleep and thank me later ^^

Look at your hand. The longer your ring finger is relative to your index finger, the more pronounced your masculinity is likely to be whether you are male or female, gay or straight, old or young. I cannot understand why any woman would want to be man-like though. They are hairy, sinewy, smelly, disgusting things (no offense guys).

[paulgiamatti]

You need the word 'expression' in a key spot up above to not come off like a total retard here breh.

No I don't. Unfortunately for you, there is nothing that will prevent you from coming off like a total retard.

[Big_Japan]

lol, modern equivalent of phrenology is supposed to "end the fun"

[Formshifter]

No I don't. Unfortunately for you, there is nothing that will prevent you from coming off like a total retard.

Actually you do, sweetie pie.



Take some time to research "Genetic expression" before you try to use it in a debate.

[Big_Japan]

No I don't. Unfortunately for you, there is nothing that will prevent you from coming off like a total retard.

Okay then, I'll bite: your genetic makeup established at conception. 100%. Epigenetic factors influencing transcription come later. Shut the fuck up you are biologically illiterate.

[Formshifter]

Peeps, I hate to end the fun, but dominance, aggression and masculinity in general (for both sexes) are indeed genetic and are largely established via the level of androgen exposure in the second trimester of pregnancy.

From the mouths of babes no less!


Loramin is going to accuse you of being brainwashed by the patriarchy in 3...2...

[Formshifter]

Okay then, I'll bite: your genetic makeup established at conception. 100%. Epigenetic factors influencing transcription come later. Shut the fuck up you are biologically illiterate.

Tyrannosaurus rekt

[paulgiamatti]

Take some time to research "Genetic expression" before you try to use it in a debate.

Terminology doesn't change the point, and as it stands I still managed to point out how ridiculous your "it's genetic!" rebuttal was without even saying the word "expression".

[paulgiamatti]

Okay then, I'll bite: your genetic makeup established at conception. 100%. Epigenetic factors influencing transcription come later. Shut the fuck up you are biologically illiterate.

Nope, still retarded.

[Jimjam]

P.S. DAT ASS
http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/metroid-samus-ass-video-game-chicks-13605240100.jpgI like that Samus started as a relatively unsexualised space bounty hunter that turned out to be female. It makes me sad that they sexualised her later.

I mean in smash brothers her super special move is literally stripping off.

[Big_Japan]

Terminology doesn't change the point, and as it stands I still managed to point out how ridiculous your "it's genetic!" rebuttal was without even saying the word "expression".

no bro it's like this:
i pointed out that you used your words clumsily

you confirmed that the clumsy use was your intention and thus that you are a scientifically illiterate retard

i called you out

u engaged damage control

[paulgiamatti]

Nah, pretty sure it's just me rebuking a claim with ease while a complete idiot who is entirely irrelevant throws a fit.

[Big_Japan]

more of step 4 i see

[paulgiamatti]

Keep projecting dude, not my fault I don't even have to try in order to illustrate why something is dumb.

[Formshifter]

Nah, pretty sure it's just me rebuking a claim with ease while a complete idiot who is entirely irrelevant throws a fit.

In the same way a priest strikes down non believers with ease in his mind. Its because your convinced your right, not that you're actually right.

[paulgiamatti]

If either of you two knobgobblers could look stop frantically insulting each other long enough to up from your keyboards, you'd realize this thread is rated 1 star for a reason.

Shit's embarrassing to watch.

Good point, I'd recommend my thread which is actually much better conversation about this topic.

[paulgiamatti]

In the same way a priest strikes down non believers with ease in his mind. Its because your convinced your right, not that you're actually right.

When the person on the other side can't even use "you're" correctly, my assumptions about being correct aren't entirely off base.

[Big_Japan]

this thread is rated 1 star for a reason.

Shit's embarrassing to watch.

i literally put both of the 1 star votes on this thread genius

but yes

[Cecily]

Point stands. Stap.

[JurisDictum]

Women do not get to walk around in our society without the fear of rape. Women are raped, and rape committed against women happens every single day of every single month of every single year. Give me a 24-hour truce during which there is no rape.



The pay gap has more to do with systematic/structural oppression than flagrant discrimination, although discrimination is certainly a form that oppression can take. Systematic oppression is a result of the patriarchal aspects of our society - it allows male-dominated industries and legislation to go unchecked, while keeping women subjugated and beneath the dominion of men. Although we've certainly made progress since the start of the 20th century - the ways in which oppression and subjugation occur are now often difficult to pinpoint and expose - there is still progress to be made.



Systematic/structural oppression also means that women are and have always been less educated than men. This is a big contributor to the pay gap, but I'd also argue that it reinforces the very subjugation that keeps women less educated and less informed. This is why whenever I hear the argument that women statistically perform worse than men in any field, it doesn't resonate with me at all. Of course they perform worse than men do, that's the whole point of the oppression and subjugation in the first place.

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

[Big_Japan]

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

THATS WHAT I"M TALKIN BOUT

THIS IS WHY I GET UP IN THE MORNING

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

A+ post

[paulgiamatti]

Agreed with all of that, but I feel a little disappointed precisely because of this reason. There wasn't very much fire behind it. It didn't give me much of an erection. I mean, I wasn't expecting a twanging hard-on, but I was hoping for at least some amount of discomfort.

[2pacalypse]

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

i agree very strongly with this. I'm not as good a writer as you so I'll just leave it at that. Please take a small scale bump in the night.

[Pokesan]

i also consider imaginary caricatures of feminism to be an important issue that must be discussed at length

they are my enemy!!!!!!!

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

i also consider imaginary caricatures
I wish those multicolor haired ham-planets were just imaginary.... I really do.

[2pacalypse]

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

pokeman can we please keep this on topic and less sarcastic. quoting this so next page can start off thoughtfully.

[paulgiamatti]

But for the record, I do think it was somewhat poorly written, and mostly hinged on the assumption that I was taking the positions he's arguing against; the abolition of rape/murder, the absurd idea of a conspiratorial plot to oppress and subjugate women, the idea that educational equality isn't already a practical reality, and so forth.

I didn't espouse any of these things, and I don't see any counterarguments presented in his post. It's more or less a decent complement and reinforcement of what I was saying.

[2pacalypse]

But for the record, I do think it was somewhat poorly written, and mostly hinged on the assumption that I was taking the positions he's arguing against; the abolition of rape/murder, the absurd idea of a conspiratorial plot to oppress and subjugate women, the idea that educational equality isn't already a practical reality, and so forth.

I didn't espouse any of these things, and I don't see any counterarguments presented in his post. It's more or less a decent complement and reinforcement of what I was saying.

what part of this exactly is poorly written, troll?

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

[paulgiamatti]

I'm not going to peer edit it, though I certainly could. It is what it is.

[radditsu]

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

Fuck her right in the pussy.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

But for the record, I do think it was somewhat poorly written, and mostly hinged on the assumption that I was taking the positions he's arguing against; the abolition of rape/murder, the absurd idea of a conspiratorial plot to oppress and subjugate women, the idea that educational equality isn't already a practical reality, and so forth.

I didn't espouse any of these things, and I don't see any counterarguments presented in his post. It's more or less a decent complement and reinforcement of what I was saying.

What part of your posts weren't eutopic idealism?

[radditsu]

PaulGiamatti needs to drink less wine ( cause of that movie, get it?)

[2pacalypse]

Rape culture:
"Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, or refusing to acknowledge the harm of some forms of sexual violence. The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures"

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.
There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.

Historically, women were less educated than men. This is no longer going to be true. It is actually going to be the opposite, because their are more women in college and professional schools than men. There is a problem with businesses not offering paternity leave for pregnancies. But part of that is legitimate business concerns with the bottom line. The government will have to provide reimbursement to business for this to ever truly go away.
As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.
The problem with pay gap conversations are the way they are pitched. There's people holding up signs about the pay gap in front of city hall....as if it is city hall doing the pay discrimination. The truth is, a male engineer and a female engineer with the same dedication to the job and level of experience, get paid the exact same the vast majority of the time. The pay gap has to do with choices women make. The way to address the issue is to discover why women make those choices -- not complain about teachers pay being sexist.
I'm not going to get into the weeds about anecdotal observations. Feminists not agreeing however, is well established. Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.

This is going to be the topic until it gets a serious reply. Come on guys, think about it I know you have an opinion.

[paulgiamatti]

It's not really that great of a post. It makes some decent points - haphazardly, but decent nonetheless, and because of the reasons I've already described it's much better taken and left alone as commentary rather than addressed as something to be responded to.

[paulgiamatti]

Although I could add that the idea of feminists never disagreeing with one another is another thing he straw-manned out of my post, but I'm just nitpicking here. All valid points, they just don't challenge or counter any of mine.

[loramin]

This is going to be the topic until it gets a serious reply. Come on guys, think about it I know you have an opinion.
Well if you insist ...

Too me, it seems overblown to call the entire USA a rape culture. Most people agree with me. There might be pockets of rape culture, like prison, parts of the catholic church, and certain sports sub-cultures; but rape isn't generally accepted by the public, or denied to be a problem. Not in 2015 at any rate. Maybe its because I live in Oregon, where you become a registered sex offender and get up to 5 years for grabbing someones ass uninvited. I don't really know -- but one thing is for sure, feminist scholars have not really provided good empirical data to support the claim.

Obviously different sub-cultures are different, but there's a real pan-American trend. Consider this survey that was just done at the University of North Dakota:

According to the survey, which analyzed responses from 73 men in college, 31.7 percent of participants said they would act on “intentions to force a woman to sexual intercourse” if they were confident they could get away with it. When asked whether they would act on “intentions to rape a woman” with the same assurances they wouldn’t face consequences, just 13.6 percent of participants agreed….“The No. 1 point is there are people that will say they would force a woman to have sex but would deny they would rape a woman,” Sarah R. Edwards, an assistant professor of counseling psychology at the University of North Dakota and the lead researcher for the study, told Newsweek.

Granted that's just college students from one college, but we're talking about a third of them! And this isn't some old survey from the 50's, it just happened!

It's hard to argue there's not some "rape culture" in America when a third of a college student body are ok with rape when if they don't get caught.

There is never going to be zero rape. Ever. There will never be zero murder either. Men will always have to worry about getting their ass kicked by stronger men (or groups of men) as well. All this sucks, but is really beside the point.
K ...

As for whole professions being discriminated against, there's something to it -- but its overstated. The main reason engineers get paid more than teachers is because engineering is less popular. If far less people were willing to work as teachers for the current pay offered, their salaries would go up. Women choose not to go into engineering -- despite being actively being pressured by academic and career advisors. It's not as if there's a guy on top of a building twisting his mustache and figuring out ways to pay women less. It's the same with computer science. There are simply less women interested than men. Its not the market or the business being sexist. The reason for women being less inclined to computer science (at least in modern times), has to do with social pressure outside of school and potential employers. Girls friends, family, etc. But people prefer to blame some dark figure in a board room instead.

You may remember that earlier in the thread I quoted this wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United _States):

Using Current Population Survey (CPS) data for 1979 and 1995 and controlling for education, experience, personal characteristics, parental status, city and region, occupation, industry, government employment, and part-time status, Yale University economics professor Joseph G. Altonji and the United States Secretary of Commerce Rebecca M. Blank found that only about 27% of the gender wage gap in each year is explained by differences in such characteristics.
That means it's not about teachers vs. engineers, because when the study controlled for a whole slew of factors, including occupation, they found that something other than all those factors accounted for 73% of the pay disparity.

Evidence is available for anyone with google and shred of intellectual honesty.
So, the wikipedia article I linked must have been like the first or second result when you googled right?

[Tenlaar]

It's hard to argue there's not some "rape culture" in America when a third of a college student body are ok with rape when if they don't get caught.

http://www.troll.me/images/darth-vader/i-find-your-lack-of-reading-comprehension-disturbing.jpg

[Sidelle]

I don't forumquest that hard so not knowing if you are a woman au natural or one of these P99 'women' makes it difficult to weigh your opinion in these discussions.
I'm used to people here questioning this for many reasons -- I've never worried much about expressing my opinions (here or anywhere else) - no matter how unpopular it is or how many insults I get in reply :), I have a rather dominant personality, a fairly vulgar sense of humor, and I enjoy the company of p99 forum nerds and playing EverQuest -- but I really am, in fact, a girl (also a wife and mother of one child), who is more ladylike in real life than people here might expect. Also, there are more of us hanging around here than you guys know.

Anyway. I hope that helps you weigh my opinion on modern feminism in the proper context. :D

[Formshifter]

When the person on the other side can't even use "you're" correctly, my assumptions about being correct aren't entirely off base.

Yeah, that "your" was my phone being illiterate. Didn't you use the wrong term for genetic expression and then defend your improper use of it? Hm. I think YOU'RE lacking a point and YOU'RE knit-picking in an attempt to feel right, breh.

[Formshifter]

I like that Samus started as a relatively unsexualised space bounty hunter that turned out to be female. It makes me sad that they sexualised her later.

I mean in smash brothers her super special move is literally stripping off.

It was decided that samus was female from the get-go. However, being overly sensitive and politically correct simply doesnt work in this instance. Having a character that looks like the average american female wouldnt work. A fat person wouldnt be able to do flips, run around, or do any of the other physical activities that samus does. It just wouldnt work.


This might soothe your nerves.



#REALWOMENHAVECURVES

http://www.thegamersblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/580881_10151272411033079_483743686_n.jpg

[haksum]

According to the survey, which analyzed responses from 73 men in college, 31.7 percent of participants said they would act on “intentions to force a woman to sexual intercourse” if they were confident they could get away with it. When asked whether they would act on “intentions to rape a woman” with the same assurances they wouldn’t face consequences, just 13.6 percent of participants agreed….“The No. 1 point is there are people that will say they would force a woman to have sex but would deny they would rape a woman,” Sarah R. Edwards, an assistant professor of counseling psychology at the University of North Dakota and the lead researcher for the study, told Newsweek.

Granted that's just college students from one college, but we're talking about a third of them! And this isn't some old survey from the 50's, it just happened!

It's hard to argue there's not some "rape culture" in America when a third of a college student body are ok with rape when if they don't get caught.




Do you overgeneralize everything this grossly? That's one small ass student body for a college (assuming they are all from the same college because it doesn't state they were) and sounds like a terrible survey. Anything that starts with only 'according to a survey' is usually bullshit and shouldn't be used as evidence for anything. MAYBE if it started out with 'according to a survey (written/spoken?) conducted in 2014 on 73 male students at so-and-so university between the ages of x-y in details, details, details.." but then still, who knows who selected these candidates? For all we know they meticulously picked the muscle head steroid abusing future wife beaters of America club at a some southern I fuck my sister because she's easy hick trade school to fit their agenda.

This could also be easily be torn apart on the usage of the word 'force' as well on account of its ambiguity. Is it physical force, persuasive force, or magical force?(I don't know if they surveyed the college D&D club). How many nerds don't think that they would 'force' Scarjo to sleep with them if they had Charm or Puppet Strings? Some probably wouldn't do it in the end but it sure sounded like a fun idea when they were doing this survey.


And if whatever academic institution you attended taught that Wikipedia is an acceptable source for anything, you need to call and demand a refund. I'm sure there's other terrible references, but this one just caught my eye while skimming.

I'm used to people here questioning this for many reasons -- I've never worried much about expressing my opinions (here or anywhere else) - no matter how unpopular it is or how many insults I get in reply , I have a rather dominant personality, a fairly vulgar sense of humor, and I enjoy the company of p99 forum nerds and playing EverQuest -- but I really am, in fact, a girl (also a wife and mother of one child), who is more ladylike in real life than people here might expect. Also, there are more of us hanging around here than you guys know.

Anyway. I hope that helps you weigh my opinion on modern feminism in the proper context.

Personality aside, I was just asking for contextual reference. Someone that has been a woman, and treated as a woman, their entire life will have different factors in the development of their view than someone raised as a boy until their early teens when they decided to embrace their femininity.

[Formshifter]

Is it physical force, persuasive force, or magical force?(I don't know if they surveyed the college D&D club).

Get ready to fail your sense motive checks, ladies, I've been stacking diplomacy on my rogue since lvl 1 ^.~

[loramin]

Do you overgeneralize everything this grossly? That's one small ass student body for a college (assuming they are all from the same college because it doesn't state they were) and sounds like a terrible survey. Anything that starts with only 'according to a survey' is usually bullshit and shouldn't be used as evidence for anything. MAYBE if it started out with 'according to a survey (written/spoken?) conducted in 2014 on 73 male students at so-and-so university between the ages of x-y in details, details, details.." but then still, who knows who selected these candidates? For all we know they meticulously picked the muscle head steroid abusing future wife beaters of America club at a some southern I fuck my sister because she's easy hick trade school to fit their agenda.

This could also be easily be torn apart on the usage of the word 'force' as well on account of its ambiguity. Is it physical force, persuasive force, or magical force?(I don't know if they surveyed the college D&D club). How many nerds don't think that they would 'force' Scarjo to sleep with them if they had Charm or Puppet Strings? Some probably wouldn't do it in the end but it sure sounded like a fun idea when they were doing this survey.

Ok, I can understand the "I can't deal with the message so I'll shoot the messenger" vibe, but "magic force"? I'm pretty certain when men said they'd force women to have sex they weren't talking about Puppet Strings :p

But ok fine, let's leave that survey out since you dislike it so much. Here's a fact that's backed up by several different studies (so you can't just attack one in particular): 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 (depending on the study) women in America will experience a rape or attempted rape and report it in the study. Obviously we can't even measure the ones that don't report it, although many women don't.

Now look, it takes A LOT of men to rape 1 in 5/6 women in America (even if some of those men commit multiple rapes). It's hard for me to see how there could be that many men willing and able to commit rape if there's absolutely no "rape culture" in America.

And if whatever academic institution you attended taught that Wikipedia is an acceptable source for anything, you need to call and demand a refund. I'm sure there's other terrible references, but this one just caught my eye while skimming.
Again with the shooting the messenger ;) Look you didn't even need to go to the wikipedia page itself, just read the part I quoted:


Using Current Population Survey (CPS) data for 1979 and 1995 and controlling for education, experience, personal characteristics, parental status, city and region, occupation, industry, government employment, and part-time status, Yale University economics professor Joseph G. Altonji and the United States Secretary of Commerce Rebecca M. Blank found that only about 27% of the gender wage gap in each year is explained by differences in such characteristics.
We're not talking about some bogus study that some idiot pasted in to Wikipedia without any scrutiny, we're talking about a study conducted by an econ (not women's studies!) professor at Yale and the US Secretary of Commerce. I don't know how much more "official" of a study I can find for you.

[Formshifter]

We're not talking about some bogus study that some idiot pasted in to Wikipedia without any scrutiny, we're talking about a study conducted by an econ (not women's studies!) professor at Yale and the US Secretary of Commerce. I don't know how much more "official" of a study I can find for you.

But how can you possibly trust the oppressive patriarchy?? Maybe their study was intended to convey false information to keep feminists in the dark as a systemic way of oppressing them?!

[Glenzig]

I like that Samus started as a relatively unsexualised space bounty hunter that turned out to be female. It makes me sad that they sexualised her later.

I mean in smash brothers her super special move is literally stripping off.

I agree. The first step should be desexualizing all video game characters. Then after the have that under control they can remove graphic violence from video games. Games that have graphic violent images have been proven to increase societal violence.

[radditsu]

I agree. The first step should be desexualizing all video game characters. Then after the have that under control they can remove graphic violence from video games. Games that have graphic violent images have been proven to increase societal violence.

http://www.theimaginaryzebra.com/images/blog/040311_18.jpg

[Big_Japan]

loling

[JurisDictum]

Using Current Population Survey (CPS) data for 1979 and 1995 and controlling for education, experience, personal characteristics, parental status, city and region, occupation, industry, government employment, and part-time status, Yale University economics professor Joseph G. Altonji and the United States Secretary of Commerce Rebecca M. Blank found that only about 27% of the gender wage gap in each year is explained by differences in such characteristics.


Really? You go with a study from 79 to 95? Congratulations. You proved the pay gap was an issue during the 80s (maybe, I don't have time to scrutinize the details of that study). The recent data:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/08/on-equal-pay-day-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

"According to the White House, full-time working women earn 77% of what their male counterparts earn"
Now that sounds pretty bad. I'm a liberal myself who grew up with a single mom, and It is the kind of issue that tends to concern me. However, if actually look at the details:
"...young women, the wage gap is even smaller – at 93 percent – meaning they caught up to their same-aged male counterparts by roughly the last week in January of this year."

Now that's kind of weird. I guess employers are discriminating against women that older, far worse than women that are younger.

The write concludes:

"Why is this? In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family. And research has shown that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings. Roughly four-in-ten mothers say they have taken a significant amount of time off from work (39%) or reduced their work hours (42%) to care for a child or other family member. Roughly a quarter (27%) say they have quit work altogether to take care of these familial responsibilities. (Fewer men say the same. For example, just 24% of fathers say they have taken a significant amount of time off to care for a child or other family member.)
Even though women have increased their presence in higher-paying jobs traditionally dominated by men, such as professional and managerial positions, women as a whole continue to work in lower-paying occupations than men do. And some part of the pay gap may also be due to gender discrimination –women are about twice as likely as men to say they had been discriminated against at work because of their gender (18% vs. 10%)."

It sounds like employer discrimination has very little to do with the problem. Again, this is 2014, not 1980. Note, it is a crime to discriminate against women with pay. Thanks to the Lilly Ledbetter Act, as soon as a woman becomes aware she is being paid less for the same job, she has 6th months to sue, even if it happened 40 years ago.
These studies never simply compare women to men with the exact same experience, overtime, and flexibility in the same field (controlled for region pay differences). They just control for education and profession label and compare the raw numbers. A lot of times they will do things like compare a male "social worker," to a female "social worker" and fail to note that the male social worker is a "economic social worker" where the female works in human services.
Women do report being discriminated against 8% higher. But note that there still is 10% of men -- most of whom are probably FoS. Considering what a mainstream issue the pay gap has become, and the way it talked about on college campuses, its not too surprising that the complaint is common. Same goes for guys who join all those stupid "men's rights" sites that encourage to think there's vast reverse sexism. I'm sure there are some discrimination cases going on but suggesting the entire 7% gap is due to discrimination when there is so many other variables unaccounted for is a bit pessimistic.
As for the rape culture study, I found it disturbing. But the it sounds like the (very limited) study simply indicates that 1/3 of college kids in a relatively backward state think the fantasy of rape is appealing. If there was a survey showing that 1/2 of all adults said they would rob a bank if they were sure they could get away with it, I wouldn't conclude we live in a bank robing culture -- where social norms glorify bank robbers, and its considered socially acceptable. A better survey would ask questions more along the lines of:
"if women to x and y and are assaulted, are they at least partly responsible?"
etc.

[loramin]

I presented a study, which controlled for factors like occupation and parenthood. You linked a survey ... I'm not sure haksum would approve:

Anything that starts with only 'according to a survey' is usually bullshit and shouldn't be used as evidence for anything

But let's consider your link anyway:

In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family.
She's starts off ok, reporting the results of a survey her company conducted ...

And research has shown that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings.
In one sentence she went from a completely factual claim to a completely unsubstantiated claim that's central to her argument. Where is this "research" she cites? I don't see any footnotes in that article. Moreover, does that research claim that interruptions account for 1% of the pay gap or 99%; those details rather matter.

Just so we're clear, here's her argument:
A) women take more time off
B) women make less
C) B) is because of A)

But she can't just decide C), she needs facts to back it up! She has none, which is why she never actually says "X% of the pay gap is caused by interruptions" anywhere in the article!

In contrast consider the study I linked. Sorry that's a few years old, but researchers have better things to do than repeat the same study every few years. Plus, I really don't think that between 1995 and now all gender discrimination has left American society. More importantly that study does control for all those factors you're so hung up about (occupation, parenthood, etc.) and does make a fact-based claim about exactly how much of the pay gap is caused by discrimination.

Oh, and one more thing: the author doesn't actually claim that time off explains the entire pay gap. In fact, at the end she acknowledges:

some part of the pay gap may also be due to gender discrimination

As I said back on page 5
So men and women get paid the same now?
No, they don't (we both agree on this), and there is no evidence that the entire pay gap is caused by time off either.

These studies never simply compare women to men with the exact same experience, overtime, and flexibility in the same field (controlled for region pay differences).
They do a heck of a lot better job than your survey did ...

As for the rape culture study, I found it disturbing. But the it sounds like the (very limited) study simply indicates that 1/3 of college kids in a relatively backward state think the fantasy of rape is appealing. If there was a survey showing that 1/2 of all adults said they would rob a bank if they were sure they could get away with it, I wouldn't conclude we live in a bank robing culture -- where social norms glorify bank robbers, and its considered socially acceptable.
Really, so when half the adults surveyed say they would rob a bank you don't think that robbing a bank is part of our culture? That's like saying half of all Americans eat buffalo wings, but buffalo wings have nothing whatsoever to do with American culture.

[haksum]

I take issue with a lot of this stuff, and I may be shooting the messenger, but if the messenger is disseminating poor quality information, it's better to stop them sooner than later. :p

Ok, I can understand the "I can't deal with the message so I'll shoot the messenger" vibe, but "magic force"? I'm pretty certain when men said they'd force women to have sex they weren't talking about Puppet Strings :p

My point is that you have to know your pooled participants - which we don't - and that is easily manipulated. I had to do surveys in college as well I can tell you I wasn't truthful on all of them and I doubt I'm the only one especially when you're young and filling them out around your friends. 'Force' being ill-defined makes it ambiguous and can mean any form of force that your brain can think up. Most people don't take random surveys as serious as college entrance exams if they even take them at all.



...
...
...

Again with the shooting the messenger ;) Look you didn't even need to go to the wikipedia page itself, just read the part I quoted:

Using Current Population Survey (CPS) data for 1979 and 1995 and controlling for education, experience, personal characteristics, parental status, city and region, occupation, industry, government employment, and part-time status, Yale University economics professor Joseph G. Altonji and the United States Secretary of Commerce Rebecca M. Blank found that only about 27% of the gender wage gap in each year is explained by differences in such characteristics.

We're not talking about some bogus study that some idiot pasted in to Wikipedia without any scrutiny, we're talking about a study conducted by an econ (not women's studies!) professor at Yale and the US Secretary of Commerce. I don't know how much more "official" of a study I can find for you.

Is this a history lesson or are we talking current events? It's best to just stay away from Wikipedia as a reference. There are plenty of other academic journals and government reports available that are more 'reliable' and are open with their methods. Basing an opinion on on something like this from Wikipedia information is not the way to go.

As for the 1 in 6 number, I'm assuming you're referring to the 1995-1996 'Violence against women survey' published by the National Institute of Justice in 1998. There is a lot of interesting information there and some of it seems legit. I was impressed with the directness of the questions until I got to the last one in the 'rape' section. 'Has anyone, male of female, ever attempted to make you have vaginal, oral, or anal sex against your will but intercourse or penetration did not occur?' This is a padding question and should not be included in the 'rape' survey as worded but being that this was a politically motivated study, there's no way you couldn't have it in there because then your numbers wouldn't be as strong. This is one of those questions that pretty much every girl can answer with a 'yes' and they were counted as 'rape victims' in the study. The other questions were VERY direct and unambiguous. Remember that girl you made out with in middle school that you totally thought you were going to finger but then when you slipped your hand down her panties she pulled you away and you were like, come on baby, and she said no and you walked away with blue balls? Yeah, that was attempted rape, or at least would be qualified as such by this study.

I'm not saying rape doesn't happen and that it's not something boys and girls shouldn't both be educated about. What I don't like is the poor statistics that get thrown around because of their sensational response.

Interesting fact from the survey: You are almost twice as likely to be the recipient of rape if you are an American Indian or Alaskan Native than if you're black. Check the facts and see what I did there.

tl;dr: I feel sorry for the next generation of kids. Can't make a gun shape with your hand (or out of toast for that matter) and can't get any action. <3 loramin for being a good sport.

[haksum]

I presented a study, which controlled for factors like occupation and parenthood. You linked a survey ... I'm not sure haksum would approve:

I'll have to look into this more as I'm curious about the pay gap issue as a businessman, but, yes, generally surveys are bullshit and should be taken with a high level of skepticism. Studies usually account more for errors and other factors that surveys don't but can't still be easily manipulated. My underlying point is not to take a survey or study at face value or as a reference until you really look into the methodology and who is conducting/financing the study.

And I just realized I said 'recipient of rape' in my other post and it made me chortle.

[2pacalypse]

I'll have to look into this more as I'm curious about the pay gap issue as a businessman, but, yes, generally surveys are bullshit and should be taken with a high level of skepticism. Studies usually account more for errors and other factors that surveys don't but can't still be easily manipulated. My underlying point is not to take a survey or study at face value or as a reference until you really look into the methodology and who is conducting/financing the study.

And I just realized I said 'recipient of rape' in my other post and it made me chortle.

The parade pours Feminists. A kid commissions the trash. An enclosed gun deranges Feminists. My distressing rip furthers SJW above a declining curriculum.

[2pacalypse]

I take issue with a lot of this stuff, and I may be shooting the messenger, but if the messenger is disseminating poor quality information, it's better to stop them sooner than later. :p



My point is that you have to know your pooled participants - which we don't - and that is easily manipulated. I had to do surveys in college as well I can tell you I wasn't truthful on all of them and I doubt I'm the only one especially when you're young and filling them out around your friends. 'Force' being ill-defined makes it ambiguous and can mean any form of force that your brain can think up. Most people don't take random surveys as serious as college entrance exams if they even take them at all.




Is this a history lesson or are we talking current events? It's best to just stay away from Wikipedia as a reference. There are plenty of other academic journals and government reports available that are more 'reliable' and are open with their methods. Basing an opinion on on something like this from Wikipedia information is not the way to go.

As for the 1 in 6 number, I'm assuming you're referring to the 1995-1996 'Violence against women survey' published by the National Institute of Justice in 1998. There is a lot of interesting information there and some of it seems legit. I was impressed with the directness of the questions until I got to the last one in the 'rape' section. 'Has anyone, male of female, ever attempted to make you have vaginal, oral, or anal sex against your will but intercourse or penetration did not occur?' This is a padding question and should not be included in the 'rape' survey as worded but being that this was a politically motivated study, there's no way you couldn't have it in there because then your numbers wouldn't be as strong. This is one of those questions that pretty much every girl can answer with a 'yes' and they were counted as 'rape victims' in the study. The other questions were VERY direct and unambiguous. Remember that girl you made out with in middle school that you totally thought you were going to finger but then when you slipped your hand down her panties she pulled you away and you were like, come on baby, and she said no and you walked away with blue balls? Yeah, that was attempted rape, or at least would be qualified as such by this study.

I'm not saying rape doesn't happen and that it's not something boys and girls shouldn't both be educated about. What I don't like is the poor statistics that get thrown around because of their sensational response.

Interesting fact from the survey: You are almost twice as likely to be the recipient of rape if you are an American Indian or Alaskan Native than if you're black. Check the facts and see what I did there.

tl;dr: I feel sorry for the next generation of kids. Can't make a gun shape with your hand (or out of toast for that matter) and can't get any action. <3 loramin for being a good sport.

Feminists gathers a monthly resource. Feminists steams behind the horrifying drama. Feminists fathers SJW. An expanding subway seeds Feminists. The scandal resumes rape culture past the extremist. Rape culture ascends around the chord. Why won't the bass want the outset? Rape culture studies before my assuming fringe. Rape culture returns next to a bonus.

When will sjw head the young? The discipline cooks the sweeping hardship beneath the cow. Why can't sjw frown next to the message? The inverse orbits! A tragedy drinks sjw outside the farm. How can the surplus discontinue the wallet? Patriarchy sabotages a flame behind a wandering capitalist. Patriarchy deletes an ozone. Patriarchy exempts an essence. Patriarchy brakes misogyny in a messy annoyance. The lesson dishes patriarchy. The restrained regret rules. Does this is an important debate stand the monochrome harden?

On top of the excess suspects third-wave feminism. Third-wave feminism ices any controversy in the abbreviated closure. A circuit struggles around third-wave feminism. The protecting drum heels third-wave feminism below a lifted stack. The social dustbin impairs a human on top of the unobtainable trouser.

A backbone leans against this is an important debate throughout the safeguard. This is an important debate stimulates a base immortal into the reduced grammar. This is an important debate institutes the reactor. Does this is an important debate litter vital discussion?

This conversation is boring prosecutes the face on top of the obliged frown. A pursuing sponsor absents and you are embarrassing beneath the drum. This conversation is boring jokes! Inside the shade rolls the ram. The roundabout companions and you are embarrassing.

[Ahldagor]

http://feministcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-shot-2014-04-04-at-6.26.37-PM.png

Y'all are gettin' close

[Ahldagor]

Has more relevance than most would think:

http://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/ulysses/13/

[Formshifter]

I agree. The first step should be desexualizing all video game characters. Then after the have that under control they can remove graphic violence from video games. Games that have graphic violent images have been proven to increase societal violence.

Speaking of desexualizing video game characters, have you seen the player models for the tekken thats coming out?? bro.


Check out nina and michelle.

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/80a384ebdf146979ae0441f0b826f8f6/200355422/Morph.jpg

[JurisDictum]

They do a heck of a lot better job than your survey did ...


It wasn't a "survey," it was a data analysis by the bureau of labor statistics. You're probably going to have to elaborate before you dismiss the fucking Pew Research Center as a non credible source.

[Formshifter]

Credible doesnt mean you agree with it, Loramin.

[loramin]

I wanted to do a point by point breakdown like normal, but I'm at work and short on time so ...

No, I'm not dismissing the entire Pew Research Center. All I did was point out that the blog post of one member of that organization: A) didn't make the point you thought it was making, B) even if it was making that point, which it wasn't, there was zero evidence to support it.

Again, it's very simple. The claim was that:
A) women get paid less (we all agree on this part)
B) women take more time off (again, we all agree on this)

but now here's the really important part:

C) B) is the sole cause of A)

The author of the article herself even said that C) was not true, so I don't understand why y'all are having such a hard time with it.

[loramin]

It wasn't a "survey," it was a data analysis by the bureau of labor statistics. You're probably going to have to elaborate before you dismiss the fucking Pew Research Center as a non credible source.

There were two parts. Part A) was that women get paid less, and the author did determine that by looking at the Bureau of Labor study. But again, no one disputes the fact that women get paid less, so this wasn't the relevant part.

Then there was part B), that woman took more time off, and that was based on a survey:

In spite of its narrowing, the gender pay gap persists. Why is this? In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family.

As I keep explaining though, a survey that shows women take more time of does not show that that's the reason they get paid less. You would need some sort of study that controls for other factors and then actually shows that whatever factor (in this case time off) is responsible for whatever percentage of the income gap.

Meanwhile I provided a study that showed exactly that, and found that 73% of the pay gap was caused by factors other than occupation/parenthood/time off/etc., or in other words that it was caused by discrimination. The only thing anyone has had to say about it is that it's a few years old, as if that completely invalidates it.

[loramin]

My point is that you have to know your pooled participants - which we don't - and that is easily manipulated. I had to do surveys in college as well I can tell you I wasn't truthful on all of them and I doubt I'm the only one especially when you're young and filling them out around your friends. 'Force' being ill-defined makes it ambiguous and can mean any form of force that your brain can think up. Most people don't take random surveys as serious as college entrance exams if they even take them at all.
Fair point, college kids are dumb :) But like I said I was just giving an example with that study, so if people want to hate on it I'm happy to drop it (there's plenty of other ways to demonstrate that there is some element of "rape culture" in American culture).

As for the 1 in 6 number, I'm assuming you're referring to the 1995-1996 'Violence against women survey' published by the National Institute of Justice in 1998. There is a lot of interesting information there and some of it seems legit.
There have been several reasonably recent studies looking at the issue (which is why I keep saying that the exact number varies depending on who you ask). But yes that's certainly a good one.

I was impressed with the directness of the questions until I got to the last one in the 'rape' section. 'Has anyone, male of female, ever attempted to make you have vaginal, oral, or anal sex against your will but intercourse or penetration did not occur?'
Ok, but it does matter if a guy tries to rape a woman and isn't successful right? Attempted rapes are still valuable information if you want to talk about rape in our society. So you can quibble over the exact wording of that particular study, and maybe it could be clearer, but I don't fault them for trying to find relevant information out.

Interesting fact from the survey: You are almost twice as likely to be the recipient of rape if you are an American Indian or Alaskan Native than if you're black. Check the facts and see what I did there.
This is because of a sad legal reality. The way the laws used to work (I think they're working to fix this so it's probably less true now) a non-native American man could rape a Native American woman, and as long as it happened on the reservation there was no way to prosecute him as long as he made it off the reservation.

. <3 loramin for being a good sport.
Aww thanks, <3 you too ;)

[Orruar]

Don't worry loramin, the guys upstairs tell me that with just 6 more months of your tireless SJW work, you'll be rewarded with all the women you can handle. They're only queue'ing up a couple to start, but I told them they'd need at least a half dozen more ready to go.

[Glenzig]

Don't worry loramin, the guys upstairs tell me that with just 6 more months of your tireless SJW work, you'll be rewarded with all the women you can handle. They're only queue'ing up a couple to start, but I told them they'd need at least a half dozen more ready to go.

That sounds like rape to me.

[Formshifter]

Jesus christ she's still going.


Loramin, youre at work at the job you chose after going to the school of your choice, and going out with your girlfriends doesnt look likehttp://www.thepersonalistproject.org/images/uploads/round_tables/black_burqa.jpg

So maybe consider the possibility that you arent oppressed, youre just an imbecile.

[Whirled]

reminds me of a song I once heard...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln4uBEUX0gM

[Formshifter]

reminds me of a song I once heard...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln4uBEUX0gM

Funny.. The who rape culture claim reminded me of a song, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2T3RZEo7s

[Whirled]

ok, that's it... you've forced me to put this next link here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAfwe1f--9w

/duck

[loramin]

ok, that's it... you've forced me to put this next link here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAfwe1f--9w

/duck

ROFL

[Ahldagor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mj-lXzaraQ

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

http://i.imgur.com/1aMm6E0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3pxZBaE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kT4hO34.png

[loramin]

WTF is wrong with you Kabuto?!?

Posting pictures of Luclin models ... you should know better :p

[Formshifter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mj-lXzaraQ

That was hands down the most talentless piece of shit Ive ever had the displeasure of hearing, and I own a radio.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

http://i.imgur.com/c6s4ldD.gif

[Ahldagor]

That was hands down the most talentless piece of shit Ive ever had the displeasure of hearing, and I own a radio.

You don't like noise?

[radditsu]

People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right.



A SJW wrote that. About a decade ago.

[loramin]

Heh, "a SJW"; that's sort of like calling Rogean "a GM" ;)

I just re-watched the whole series/movie recently 'cause my wife hadn't seen it. God I hope they bring it back someday. Sooooo good ...

[Formshifter]

You don't like noise?


When it sounds like something i do, but god damn. theyre trying too hard in the wrong direction.

[2pacalypse]

The inserted worm washes the enthusiasm. Why can't feminism feature a digest? Vital debate fusses underneath the factual breeze. Feminism sweeps against vital debate. Feminism raves over vital debate. Feminism swears.

[Xer0]

No it isn't.



It's a movement in which there are varying degrees of opinions and political differences. Feminists of any level of intelligence know this, and don't go about making the claim that there is one specified, truest form of feminism.



Women do not get to walk around in our society without the fear of rape. Women are raped, and rape committed against women happens every single day of every single month of every single year. Give me a 24-hour truce during which there is no rape.



The pay gap has more to do with systematic/structural oppression than flagrant discrimination, although discrimination is certainly a form that oppression can take. Systematic oppression is a result of the patriarchal aspects of our society - it allows male-dominated industries and legislation to go unchecked, while keeping women subjugated and beneath the dominion of men. Although we've certainly made progress since the start of the 20th century - the ways in which oppression and subjugation occur are now often difficult to pinpoint and expose - there is still progress to be made.



Systematic/structural oppression also means that women are and have always been less educated than men. This is a big contributor to the pay gap, but I'd also argue that it reinforces the very subjugation that keeps women less educated and less informed. This is why whenever I hear the argument that women statistically perform worse than men in any field, it doesn't resonate with me at all. Of course they perform worse than men do, that's the whole point of the oppression and subjugation in the first place.



According to whom? You?



A best-guess percentage pulled out of thin air really doesn't mean anything.



That's strange, I spend a lot of time around feminists and haven't noticed any of these hypocrisies. Not a single one.

All you did was say "No" to allt he points he made.

Typical feminist shoving fingers in their ears and shouting NO I CANT HEAR YOU LALALALLALALALALA

And you wonder why the rest of the world thinks you're a joke.

[Ahldagor]

When it sounds like something i do, but god damn. theyre trying too hard in the wrong direction.

That's the satire of it.

[paulgiamatti]

All you did was say "No" to allt he points he made.

And quite eloquently, I might add. Unlike you, however, JurisDictum actually responded to most of the things I brought up instead of resorting to petty insults that say more about the discomfort you've apparently experienced in grappling with feminist concepts than they do in actually insulting feminism.

Here's a piece of advice: if you want to discredit something that someone wrote, you should probably read it first of all and seek to gain some kind of understanding of the subject matter.

[Orruar]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/570/567/060.jpg

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

http://i.imgur.com/Vnuz6RE.png

[Orruar]

http://i.imgur.com/Vnuz6RE.png

But gulags are pretty ironic. I mean, if I didn't know any better, I'd think the gulag is a comedy club.

[Formshifter]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/570/567/060.jpg

Oh god that poor woman. we should start a rally to raise awareness about umbrella lending and the psychological trauma it causes.

[Rararboker]

And quite eloquently, I might add. Unlike you, however, JurisDictum actually responded to most of the things I brought up instead of resorting to petty insults that say more about the discomfort you've apparently experienced in grappling with feminist concepts than they do in actually insulting feminism.

Here's a piece of advice: if you want to discredit something that someone wrote, you should probably read it first of all and seek to gain some kind of understanding of the subject matter.


Man, this is comedy gold!

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

http://i.imgur.com/Fs6DuE0.png

[Glenzig]

Man, this is comedy gold!

I know right.

[Ahldagor]

http://i.imgur.com/Fs6DuE0.png

coupled with

Egos clinging to relevance while watching their jobs circle down the drain. Anyone consider why the current feminist movement is academically driven and not widely seen in city streets?

[Ahldagor]

http://feministcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-shot-2014-04-04-at-6.26.37-PM.png

[Archalen]

Men who get routinely rejected by women displacing their anger onto radical feminism.

Embarrassing.

[iruinedyourday]

Why are you nerds talking about feminism anyway?

[Ahldagor]

They need to get past it, so I'm helping.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Why are you nerds talking about feminism anyway?

Why are you fags always talking about racism anyway?

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Feminists articulating feminism perfectly. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzsGmdmhDTI&x-yt-cl=84924572)

[radditsu]

Or women being women

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

They called themselves sirens. They sound like banshees.

[pharmakos]

did you guys just see that commercial?

kagatob you should have been watching the super bowl if not. this feminism commercial would have made you cry.

[pharmakos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjJQBjWYDTs

It's a pad commercial...

Words don't even.

[pharmakos]

we should all grow some balls and start being men and not allow women to be viewed that way anymore tho

us cocky dickhead males us

[entruil]

add 1 lootable and all you fools will be feminized.... oh wait blue... oh wait blue more red... oh wait.... hahahahahahahahahahahahahaa what a joke... sry ill hopefully retirementhome

[pharmakos]

i think if it turns blue it means you're not pregnant, so you'll be okay entrull

[entruil]

thanks doc, why you try

[entruil]

stricken

[entruil]

into the abyss will i run .... ... ..... ...

[pharmakos]

godspeed

[entruil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3moLkjvhEu0

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

we should all grow some balls and start being men and not allow women to be viewed that way anymore tho

us cocky dickhead males us

When women drive from the same tees as the men I'll stop saying they hit like girls. When they stop running their own marathons (by choice) because their top runner is some ridiculous amount of time behind the top male runners, I won't say they run like girls.

One of the quotes in the commercial said "shoot like a girl", I'm assuming they mean marksmanship and not basketball. If so it's a false statement because women have been proven to be overall better marksman and nobody says "shoot like a girl" in that context... ever..
Archery is another story though, as most men wouldn't even be able to draw a war bow.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Inb4 factsRsexist

[entruil]

whatever to each there own ... let them compete at the level they want.... why push someone to be what they arent.... i dont agree with womans rights ... only human rights..... i hope they arent different....

[pharmakos]

i think you're approaching your anti-feminism campaign the wrong way. and i'll admit this is the first time i've opened this thread despite being aware of its existence for awhile. but yeah, right away in that post^ you start saying "if women start being as physically capable as men are then i will change."

and while i agree with the anti-feminist movement in today's social climate, that is a poor approach IMO.

it is far better to point out the ways in which men are discriminated against. in 2015 women have more rights than men do. men are statistically barely more likely to commit a crime (and that statistic showing men are more likely to commit crimes is likely skewed by the number of women that are let go rather than having charges pressed on them).... and yet there are 10x as many men as women behind bars in america.

just to name one thing.

but we should all "take it like a man" and just deal with it because that's the way it is.

[entruil]

there is something there but i dont live at that macro of a level... only females in my life in which i have anything to say about the topic are strong and supported and should be anything else is bullshit

[pharmakos]

i admire your humble world view, entrull.

[entruil]

if men need that then thats something i dont know about....

[pharmakos]

MAN UP kagatob

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

i think you're approaching your anti-feminism campaign the wrong way. and i'll admit this is the first time i've opened this thread despite being aware of its existence for awhile. but yeah, right away in that post^ you start saying "if women start being as physically capable as men are then i will change."

and while i agree with the anti-feminist movement in today's social climate, that is a poor approach IMO.

it is far better to point out the ways in which men are discriminated against. in 2015 women have more rights than men do. men are statistically barely more likely to commit a crime (and that statistic showing men are more likely to commit crimes is likely skewed by the number of women that are let go rather than having charges pressed on them).... and yet there are 10x as many men as women behind bars in america.

just to name one thing.

but we should all "take it like a man" and just deal with it because that's the way it is.

My point is that feminists are constantly trying to have their cake and eat it too.

They claim that only men rape because it's asserting their power and men are more powerful and in the same breath will complain about a damsel in distress trope and say "throw like a girl" is offensive because women are 100 percent equal to men in every way.

Pick one is all I ask.

[entruil]

it is far better to point out the ways in which men are discriminated against. in 2015 women have more rights than men do. men are statistically barely more likely to commit a crime (and that statistic showing men are more likely to commit crimes is likely skewed by the number of women that are let go rather than having charges pressed on them).... and yet there are 10x as many men as women behind bars in america.


so much more than this... we arent disagreeing ... your learning or one sided

[entruil]

They claim that only men rape ... women are 100 percent equal to men in every way.

Pick one is all I ask.
stop getting kicks out of me... unless you really need real answers .... otherwise im just here ...

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

stop getting kicks out of me... unless you really need real answers .... otherwise im just here ...

I never claimed that either position was correct.

[entruil]

what is messed up? tho ... i dont think it is... i would still get my girl and kids out first regardless of whatever so equallity? idk what that means ... if you care and love then equality is a misnomer?

[entruil]

^ im the least in that

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

what is messed up? tho ... i dont think it is... i would still get my girl and kids out first regardless of whatever so equallity? idk what that means ... if you care and love then equality is a misnomer?

Equality is a subjective term, another thing that feminists don't realize. Keep in mind, the most prominent feminist figureheads are wealthy and white, yet they claim to represent opposed groups. They claim to want equal opportunity and yet all of their actions lead to women having less accountability.

[entruil]

the most prominent feminist claim to want equal opportunity and yet all of their actions lead to ...

maybe you shoudl step back and encourage women to stake their own claim... single mothers will refute your idea..... strong women lead to strong men,women, and children... equal is not the word... fair is not the word... democracy is not the word... BEST is the word

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

maybe you shoudl step back and encourage women to stake their own claim... single mothers will refute your idea..... strong women lead to strong men,women, and children... equal is not the word... fair is not the word... democracy is not the word... BEST is the word

I'm trying to figure out what you are arguing against. Most single mothers aren't modern feminists. Most strong women aren't modern feminists.

[entruil]

sry guys... ron paul 2024

[entruil]

me either, feminists are great they remind us of the shit we've done and how maybe they feel held back... to each their own

[entruil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cSYgG08b3Y

[pharmakos]

that hidden track on the end of that papa roach album is so good^

[entruil]

=)

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1422847381373.png
All of that told, replies with "but misogyny". Fuck modern feminism. Nothing but a dogmatic cult.

[Ahldagor]

Kags, have you ever woken up with caked on, dried blood streaks on your dick?

[radditsu]

that hidden track on the end of that papa roach album is so good^

Nothing Papa Roach is good.

[Danyelle]

Kags, have you ever woken up with caked on, dried blood streaks on your dick?

Is this not normal?

[radditsu]

Is this not normal?

Happens every 28 days for me.

[Formshifter]

me either, feminists are great they remind us of the shit we've done and how maybe they feel held back... to each their own

Lol what have YOU done to oppress anyone? I havent done anything, so there isnt really anything to be reminded of.

[Aviann]

Happens every 28 days for me.

if you play in the mud, you can fuck through blood

[Ahldagor]

Men don't sit around bitching about women. Boys do.

[2pacalypse]

Men don't sit around bitching about women. Boys do.

did ur wife teach u that line?

[Cecily]

Nothing Papa Roach is good.

http://i.imgur.com/auUNM.jpg

[Pokesan]

http://i.imgur.com/auUNM.jpg

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180306

Hop in! We're going for a ride

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

http://i.imgur.com/auUNM.jpg

Totes picking up dominoes on the way home tonight.

[Formshifter]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180306

Hop in! We're going for a ride

Hahaha what the fuck.


Portasaurus confirmed high

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Totes

Stay punchable sissy boy.

[Formshifter]

Stay punchable sissy boy.

Whenever i see your name i think of ashy larry
http://images.broadwayworld.com/columnpic2/200donnelly%20ashy%20larry.jpg