Another great Classic experience

[Blitzers]

So I was running thru EC on my way to the Neriak bank the other night and I decided to auction some of my wares that I was able to upgrade in unrest. I auctioned a bracelet of woven grass. Within seconds I had people wanting to buy asking how much. 2 of the 3 said I wanted too much which was 250p. I got responses like "what are u people thinking" & they're only worth 75 on wiki. The 3rd guy responded would u take 200, of course I would was my reply.

The morale of the story is. This transaction would have never happened with a bazaar, I would most of likely just banked the bracelet for an alt. You may all say I ripped him off, on the contrary I offered a product at a suggested price and reduced that price to accommodate my customer. Now would I have taken 100p maybe, but the point is supply & demand is a great thing. The bazaar flooded the market with everyone bank junk thus making your assests worthless and effort to sell trivial for all.

Love EC market. True free market capitalism at its finest!!!

[Lunababy]

An automated auction would have the same effect. You're thinking purely of buy-it-now with a set price.

ie; this game would be much better if it had a WoW AH clone.

[Lictor]

So I was running thru EC on my way to the Neriak bank the other night and I decided to auction some of my wares that I was able to upgrade in unrest. I auctioned a bracelet of woven grass. Within seconds I had people wanting to buy asking how much. 2 of the 3 said I wanted too much which was 250p. I got responses like "what are u people thinking" & they're only worth 75 on wiki. The 3rd guy responded would u take 200, of course I would was my reply.

The morale of the story is. This transaction would have never happened with a bazaar, I would most of likely just banked the bracelet for an alt. You may all say I ripped him off, on the contrary I offered a product at a suggested price and reduced that price to accommodate my customer. Now would I have taken 100p maybe, but the point is supply & demand is a great thing. The bazaar flooded the market with everyone bank junk thus making your assests worthless and effort to sell trivial for all.

Love EC market. True free market capitalism at its finest!!!

We have a contender for dumbest post 2015, and it's only January.

[Rayzor84]

Grata on ripping dude off. You'll fit right in with elxinobarrio and the rest of the tunnel rats. Now all u need to do is master the "all I have is xpp I'm new" lie.

[Lictor]

Participating in free gear giveaways or raffles/randoms when you have millions of plat is also a pro tip.

[kaev]

Saw thread title, clicked hoping for some quality sarcasm and the usual half-dozen idiot gogoredteam +1's, leaving disappointed.

[Swish]

I can't remember who's sig it is, but reminded me of this ;)

http://www.project1999.com/forums/image.php?u=431&type=sigpic&dateline=1299529772

[planarity]

The morale of the story is very low

[Swish]

Saw thread title, clicked hoping for some quality sarcasm and the usual half-dozen idiot gogoredteam +1's, leaving disappointed.

Will endeavour to post more gogoredteam stuff to satisfy your next browsing session <3

[Jontheripper]

Grata on ripping dude off. You'll fit right in with elxinobarrio and the rest of the tunnel rats. Now all u need to do is master the "all I have is xpp I'm new" lie.

i like haggling, im still fairly poor so i dont have much experience with the top shelf loot. But if i see an item selling for 400 i offer 250, sometimes they say sure, other times i get a counter offer somewhere in the middle. I guess what im trying to convey is offer what you think is a good deal and dont be afraid to settle for a fair price. If its a rip dont buy it.

[indiscriminate_hater]

EC fat cats are keeping the market alive

[Blitzers]

An automated auction would have the same effect. You're thinking purely of buy-it-now with a set price.

ie; this game would be much better if it had a WoW AH clone.

The point of this is that a bazaar/auction house removes an aspect of the game that is enjoyable and requires effort to achieve.

2 days ago I bought a festering cloak in EC for 75p because I was impatient and just wanted something other than cloth for my back. I later saw someone selling a festering cloak for 15p. Feeling bitter about just wasting 60p, I ran over to Orc 2 and gave away my festering cloak and pursued other cloak options. The free market does have its pitfalls but when u run in to them u have no one to blame but urself.

[Enderenter]

I can't remember who's sig it is, but reminded me of this ;)

http://www.project1999.com/forums/image.php?u=431&type=sigpic&dateline=1299529772

This is great.

[Lictor]

The point of this is that a bazaar/auction house removes an aspect of the game that is enjoyable and requires effort to achieve.

2 days ago I bought a festering cloak in EC for 75p because I was impatient and just wanted something other than cloth for my back. I later saw someone selling a festering cloak for 15p. Feeling bitter about just wasting 60p, I ran over to Orc 2 and gave away my festering cloak and pursued other cloak options. The free market does have its pitfalls but when u run in to them u have no one to blame but urself.

How is that any diff than checking bazaar vendors until you find the first usable cloak not cloth and buy it on sight bc you were impatient that day. Next day you see a vendor while looking for some other armor selling that same cloak for 10pp?

[SCB]

Free market capitalism was such a stupid idea that it didn't even survive past the generation that thought it up.

Communism worked better, and we're still seeing the ridiculous fallout from that awful idea.

Grats on the pp tho.

[Blitzers]

Free market capitalism was such a stupid idea that it didn't even survive past the generation that thought it up.

Communism worked better, and we're still seeing the ridiculous fallout from that awful idea.

Grats on the pp tho.

Communism worked better, yes mass graves and enslavement is far better, I hope your not teaching anyone that. God these millenials are so stupid

[Blitzers]

How is that any diff than checking bazaar vendors until you find the first usable cloak not cloth and buy it on sight bc you were impatient that day. Next day you see a vendor while looking for some other armor selling that same cloak for 10pp?

It's alot different for 1, that noob at Orc camp would have never got a free cloak, also I more then likely would have never bought a festering cloak in the 1st place being that everyone's bank junk would be listed at the bazaar I would have bought something better or equivalent for probably less play, but most importantly the experience of negotiating the deal and the legwork involved in the transactions would never existed, which is the most valuable part of the deal to me, the interaction. It's not about the "end result" for me, it's about the overall experience that makes it enjoyable and valuable. With the bazaar, The Ends do not always Justify the Means.

[maskedmelon]

This thread smells of dubious intent >.> but as champion of the free market, I must speak ^o^/


I am not sure I we the point of sharing this particular story in this fashion because all it will do aside from receiving a few nods of agreement is incite the emotions of the feeble minded.


On that note there is nothing wrong or amoral about the transaction. The OP stated the desired compensation and the buyer offerred less compensation to which the seller agreed. The item was worth whatever the buyer paid, because if it were not s/he, of presumed rational mind, would not have paid it. By paying the price that s/he paid, s/he [b]necessarily[/b ] receives the level of utility that s/he associates with the purchase price.

I think the OP's second post helps to illustrate this, though it demonstrates a strain of irrational thought too ;) People associate different levels of utility based on preferences which can fluctuate wildly. I remember a couple if years ago I paid 3k for a CoS because I had not seen many for sale at that time, I wanted one. And there was one for sale. I knew it was overpriced, but even if I hadn't it'd not've made a lick of difference.

Here is the important part, whether the buyer is aware or unaware of the average going price of an item is irrelevant because s/he has equal access to that information. S/he can ask for a PC in ooc, s/he can spend time in EC to learn prices, s/he can consult a friend or guildy, s/he can search the internets. Failure to do so demonstrates apathy or laziness. And there is nothing wrong with that! Most people actually behave that way anyway, making purchases based in what seems reasonable rather than exhaustive comparative analysis ^^

[maskedmelon]

Free market capitalism was such a stupid idea that it didn't even survive past the generation that thought it up.

Grats on the pp tho.

No it just brought us civilization and continues to thrive wherever people interact.

[Blitzers]

No it just brought us civilization and continues to thrive wherever people interact.

Amen

[NizmerThafen]

The price of something in EQ is 100% dependent on what people are willing to spend on available items. For instance a complete Rogue epic MQ goes for around 25k these days while a single key Mage epic MQ item may go for more than 500k. The only reason for the price difference is the availability of key items and clearly one is more available than another. It's only rational to get the highest price you can as a seller and the lowest price as a buyer. This tug of war is a very good thing.

Also, there are no down sides to free markets when compared to the alternatives, such as command economy, communism, corporatism (what we mostly have globally). If you think the western world has a free market model you are reta... uninformed.

[myriverse]

So I was running thru EC on my way to the Neriak bank the other night and I decided to auction some of my wares that I was able to upgrade in unrest. I auctioned a bracelet of woven grass. Within seconds I had people wanting to buy asking how much. 2 of the 3 said I wanted too much which was 250p. I got responses like "what are u people thinking" & they're only worth 75 on wiki. The 3rd guy responded would u take 200, of course I would was my reply.

The morale of the story is. This transaction would have never happened with a bazaar, I would most of likely just banked the bracelet for an alt. You may all say I ripped him off, on the contrary I offered a product at a suggested price and reduced that price to accommodate my customer. Now would I have taken 100p maybe, but the point is supply & demand is a great thing. The bazaar flooded the market with everyone bank junk thus making your assests worthless and effort to sell trivial for all.

Love EC market. True free market capitalism at its finest!!!
I often haggled in the Bazaar.

If you think the western world has a free market model you are reta... uninformed.
Nah. just a dumbass. They're plenty informed.

[Blitzers]

The price of something in EQ is 100% dependent on what people are willing to spend on available items. For instance a complete Rogue epic MQ goes for around 25k these days while a single key Mage epic MQ item may go for more than 500k. The only reason for the price difference is the availability of key items and clearly one is more available than another. It's only rational to get the highest price you can as a seller and the lowest price as a buyer. This tug of war is a very good thing.

Also, there are no down sides to free markets when compared to the alternatives, such as command economy, communism, corporatism (what we mostly have globally). If you think the western world has a free market model you are reta... uninformed.

Exactly right, we have been marching toward global corporate socialism ever since " The War of Northern Aggression" ended. Sad days for our future.

[Fanguru]

Free markets do not exist in real life.
Minds blown?
A market is always regulated. For instance Child labour, drugs, government positions are usually not for sale.
Problem is, what one nation finds unethical may be totally acceptable in another.

Casinos are not allowed on p1999 -> it's not a free market.

This post contributed nothing to the topic, you are welcome.

[Blitzers]

Free markets do not exist in real life.
Minds blown?
A market is always regulated. For instance Child labour, drugs, government positions are usually not for sale.
Problem is, what one nation finds unethical may be totally acceptable in another.

Casinos are not allowed on p1999 -> it's not a free market.

This post contributed nothing to the topic, you are welcome.

Before Adam Smith wrote "wealth of nations" he wrote a book titled " the theory of moral sentiments ". I suggest reading this.

[Fanguru]

Reading philosophical writings from a man who spoke to his imaginary friends? Eww :p

[Blitzers]

Reading philosophical writings from a man who spoke to his imaginary friends? Eww :p

Playing an imaginary game like DnD ewwww... Gimme a break

[maskedmelon]

Free markets do not exist in real life.
Minds blown?
A market is always regulated. For instance Child labour, drugs, government positions are usually not for sale.
Problem is, what one nation finds unethical may be totally acceptable in another.

Casinos are not allowed on p1999 -> it's not a free market.

This post contributed nothing to the topic, you are welcome.

With regards to macroeconomics I would be inclined to agree that as an grows, there are those who seek to subdue it. The free market always seeks alternatives though and springs up in the spite of regulation. This is why we have never ending legislative action seeking squelch innovations and fostering black markets in the process.

[Blitzers]

Hell take a look at what the fast food industry is about to do with cashiers, you have been replaced by a touch screen, so much for your cries for a higher minimum wage just cost u your job

[fadetree]

The price of something in EQ is 100% dependent on what people are willing to spend on available items

? Price is always dependent on what people are willing to pay.

[Lictor]

Hell take a look at what the fast food industry is about to do with cashiers, you have been replaced by a touch screen, so much for your cries for a higher minimum wage just cost u your job

Hmm I don't think I like the idea of touching the same screen that hundreds of other people have touched. That touch screen soda dispenser already makes me cringe looking at it.

[maskedmelon]

Hell take a look at what the fast food industry is about to do with cashiers, you have been replaced by a touch screen, so much for your cries for a higher minimum wage just cost u your job

*nods* zealous suppliers attempt to extract a price for services (labor) that is higher than the consumer (businesses) are willing to pay so the consumer (businesses) goes elsewhere and voila enter the Burger Builder 5000, serving fresher food more quickly! Nevermore shan't I worry of hair or spittle or random debris in my foods. ^^

[maskedmelon]

Unless, like, everyone bought out the reasonably priced items and your ripoff priced item sold because it was the last one on market. There's no difference in these situations.

One of the biggest differences that I see between a broker system and the one that we have here is that the former denies ambitious/hardworking new players the option of making money this way. It compels all new players into equal poverty. I would not object to implementing the private shops from the bazaar, but without the broker/search functions (i.e. Players had to manually check each shop).

[Blitzers]

Unless, like, everyone bought out the reasonably priced items and your ripoff priced item sold because it was the last one on market. There's no difference in these situations.

There's huge difference, here's why u miss it. Stop looking at the end result as the ultimate objective because it is not always about the end result which still would be different anyways but for arguements sake let's say the end result is the same. The "immersion" interaction, the legwork holds value in the "no bazaar" EC tunnel economy. In the bazaar version the immersion is lost especially the value of bringing said item to market. The fewer people willing to devote time and effort into bringing said item to market the higher the value of that item.

It's simple economics 101. The bazaar is was created by the devs aka government intervention to stimulate the economy, unfortunately the unintended consequences were all your bank junk lost value. It also gained value making it more accessible but that too had unintended consequences as well. What I'm saying is that the interaction/immersion held more value in the game then trying to stimulate the economy.

[Blitzers]

Sorry, I wasn't a business major so I missed economics 101. Suppose I should defer to people like yourself who have had a proper education on the impact of immersion in virtual economies.

No do your own research, and I wasnt a business major either, these things I speak of are "self evident" in society. Unfortunately communist/socialist/fascist "philosophy has rooted itself deep into our educational systems and things that are self evident you have been taught or subconsciously nudged into hating and rejecting.

It really is a sad state in which our society/government/corporations has bred upon our own people.

[maskedmelon]

I think that speaks poorly of our educators. I did read an entertaining dissertation from a peeress or at Harvard on the Proper balance of "bull" and what he dubbed "cow" it's converse. The whole thing arose from either suspension or expulsion of a student for taking an exam (that he aced) in a class that he was not enrolled in. It was a case of some impressive deductive reasoning and robust stroke of luck ^^

[Blitzers]

I'm gonna take that as you concede my point. But while we're on the topic of education, I noticed that so many people in school were proud of how well they could bullshit their papers. Filling up space with meaningless fluff. You were pretty good at that weren't you?

No I dropped all classes in college, and got a job. I hated school because 90% of the shit they teach you is worthless, not to mention I refused to write a 10 page paper on some crap topic every 2 weeks. I couldn't fill it with fluff because I'm anal and a perfectionist. That paper would take me months to write because it had to be perfect and without error. My wife is currently going to college and the crap she's gotta write about along with the amount of writing would make my brain explode. You don't need some certification to beware of the self evident. Formal education is not necessary with all the avenues of information we have in society. Unfortunately the Elite want you formally educated to shape your mind into good little sheep ballot punchers. Formal education has become very dangerous and sending impressionable teenagers into that institution can have "unintended consequences "

[Cecily]

I'm not happy with how our friendly banter ended up going, so I deleted my replies to you. Please do the same if you want this to not get completely derailed.

[Blitzers]

I'm not happy with how our friendly banter ended up going, so I deleted my replies to you. Please do the same if you want this to not get completely derailed.

I don't understand why or how it may be derailed. Seems like a perfectly genuine conversation to me.

[falendar]

so basically instead of amazon you want traveling merchants. i'd rather have amazon

[Blitzers]

There was no Amazon/eBay in the medieval period which this mmorpg is loosely based. I know there wasn't any dragons or orcs either. Your entitlement mmo is made by Blizzard not Verant. Omg maybe we should all have tanks and fighter jets since easy mode is all we want in life. Freaking want it now millinials make me sick.