Trio help: Enc & Nec & _____ [Archive]

Videri

02-09-2015, 03:54 AM

I love designing groups! Some ideas:

Adding a mage would give you the best pet tank and malo. You could have the mage pet taunt and the Necro pet not taunt, or switch if necessary. Also, nukes can sometimes be the best form of crowd control. ;)

Adding a bard would give you even more mana regen, even more CC options, and movement speed. Kind of a lot of overlap, honestly.

Druid would add healing, ports, and SoW. Also, the druid's Regeneration spell can allow the necro to leave lich on longer. Plus a pure snare, which might be useful as the Necromancer's Darkness-line snares will prevent mez if it becomes necessary. So, additional snare option (snare is one of the key things the enchanter class lacks).

Adding a ranger, rogue, or monk would give you even more melee DPS. You could fear-kite with great efficiency. Ranger or monk would also be a more durable puller than a necromancer or enchanter. A ranger would also get SoW at level 39.

You can always add more enchanters for additional charm DPS.

And lastly...cleric. Cleric-enchanter is a famous duo. With the damage of a necro, the trio could probably do anything a trio can do.

skitterburst

02-09-2015, 06:08 AM

bard or ranger sounds dope, maybe even paladin

Sadre Spinegnawer

02-09-2015, 12:23 PM

paladin

Kope

02-09-2015, 12:36 PM

I'd agree one of the 3 priests, cleric is best if you want to open your trio to more grouping later. Druid would probably be best to stay the trio in terms of diversity. Shaman would probably be best in terms of sheer power and what you can accomplish together.

Just thoughts :).

baalzy

02-09-2015, 01:03 PM

Shaman will gain you Malo for later life charming ease for the Enchanter / Necro. Plus a stronger slow, better healing and buffs. You won't have in-your-pocket travel, but honestly it's not that hard finding someone to port your group.

Cleric would be great too, wipe recovery without buying EEs and CHeal when charming means you never have to find another pet. Plus the big HP buffs for the squishies to deal with charm breaks. However, their job will be very boring compared to any other class.

Druid for the low mana-high-duration ensnare is still nice. Plus damage shields and of course the travel aspect along with heals. They too can charm in the right areas, but I don't think you'll ever find a place where the necro & druid can charm at the same time (maybe for a couple levels in LOIO).

A melee class is just a bad idea in general, they'll be forced to tank with only necro healing to sustain them.

Swish

02-09-2015, 01:04 PM

Cleric. If you're doing undead he can efficiently be a wizard as well as a healer.

There's plenty of Dial A Port druids to get you places.

sanforce

02-09-2015, 02:27 PM

Enchanter, Necro, Shaman.

Shaman because of regen/heals for the 2 converting HP into mana, lots of buffs, halfway decent pet later in the game. Necro can pull with FD, enchanter does crowed control, necro + shaman root rot, enchanter charms, all 3 classes use their pets to pwn mobs.

Swish

02-09-2015, 02:34 PM

Shaman will ditch you to solo Hiero/Lodi/etc... cleric is a pal for life.

sanforce

02-09-2015, 02:39 PM

Shaman will ditch you to solo Hiero/Lodi/etc... cleric is a pal for life.

Yea, at level 60, when he gets torpor. I think the Enchanter/Necromancer/Shaman trio would easily stay intact throughout the leveling phase of the game, but maybe less so once reaching the farming phase of the game.

A necro and enchanter can hold their own in the high level solo game too.

mr_jon3s

02-09-2015, 02:56 PM

Paladin great tank necro working with the paladin should be fine staying alive.

Shaman for extra dots, slows, and heals.

Druid for porting, dots, nukes, and heals.

Cleric heals, rezes, and instant group if you find a tank.

Wizard nukes and ports.

Adamas

02-09-2015, 03:50 PM

I really appreciate all the feedback Server Chat! Lots to think about.

captnamazing

02-09-2015, 05:01 PM

get a rogue, go outside, 2 pets, enc fear, necro snare, 2 pets and rogue raping fleeing mob from behind. so much win.

Deadlyfury

02-09-2015, 05:19 PM

get a rogue, go outside, 2 pets, enc fear, necro snare, 2 pets and rogue raping fleeing mob from behind. so much win.

Rogue would pull way too much Agro.

You need a shaman or Druid as they work well with nec combo, and enchanter is any casters best friend, necro pet can semi tank and with the added heals/slight dps from druid or shaman it's a match made I heaven!

Lunababy

02-09-2015, 05:41 PM

Cleric if you're trioing difficult content at 60. Druid otherwise.
(Let's not forego ports + sow shall we?)

w1zard

02-09-2015, 10:52 PM

Cleric if you're trioing difficult content at 60. Druid otherwise.
(Let's not forego ports + sow shall we?)

this if you want to do hard content at 60

Clark

02-10-2015, 03:40 AM

Shaman, Cleric, or Druid.

Donruss

02-10-2015, 04:54 AM

Mage

Victorio

02-10-2015, 07:13 AM

Definitely cleric

Swish

02-10-2015, 09:15 AM

get a rogue, go outside, 2 pets, enc fear, necro snare, 2 pets and rogue raping fleeing mob from behind. so much win.

Fear kiting as a rogue gets old.. fast! :p

Maybe one session but not for 60 levels thank you lol

Doomgaze

02-10-2015, 01:54 PM

Cleric fo sho, or another enchanter ? :)

DrKvothe

02-10-2015, 02:12 PM

For fastest leveling, druid. Level in outdoor zones where pulls are endless. He can snare, harmony, charm, fear, also while providing heals and ports. You'll level faster fear kiting crocs in oasis with nonstop pulls than in a dungeon, despite ZEM. There are a few notable dungeons where there are animals, too. Off the top of my head, bats in SolB, crocs in Upper Guk and Cazic-Thule, sharks in kedge. I'm sure there's more. You don't need TONS of animals, just one, a bit lower level than the rest of the stuff. Isn't there a wolf somewhere in permafrost?

As a trio, you shouldnt need heals that often. You'll have aoe mez, 2 single target mez's, 2 fears (and druid for animal fear), 2 snares, 3 roots, aoe stuns, lull (plus animal lull and undead lull), and harmony. Heals are definitely necessary, but not constant healing, just occasional spot healing when resists and/or pet breaks cause you trouble.

Healing the pets won't be necessary. You can always break charm and kill them if they get low, or you can root, lull, memblur and they're regen pretty fast.

maskedmelon

02-10-2015, 02:38 PM

I would caution against a second necro because none of their dots will stack. Now they can still use their summoned pets, charm undead and perform a fee other tricks, but by including 2 of them you are accepting one will be significantly hindered unless your groupmates plan to operate semi autonomously, basically soloing but within range for shared exp.

That said, I would suggest Druid for versatility. They bring nukes, dots, more charm, snare, sow, regen, ports, heals and fishing grubs...

Crawdad

02-10-2015, 03:52 PM

What level are you now/how long do you plan on playing? Is this for serious cash camps at 60, or just for leveling? Are you planning on trio'ing camps that can be duo'ed?

Just leveling and having a fun time? Druid. Sure you can just Buy ports, but Druids add a lot more than just ports, and is a great pair with Enchanter/Necro. Druid just has to not be lazy.

Super serious plat camping? Cleric. Because the Shaman is going to drain you of all that sweet, sweet plat in order to be properly geared. Cleric will give you the same if not better options (Stuns, Roots, better heals, Rez) than Shaman, and everything else the Shaman brings to the table is covered by Enchanter/Necro.

That being said I think Ench/Necro/Bard could be fun, too.

Duckwalk

02-10-2015, 04:00 PM

Crawdad

02-10-2015, 04:22 PM

Some of the most OP duos in the game are enc clr and enc shm. A Necro complements either of those.

Shm for better mana regen, slows, sow, and brokenness once fully geared (expensive). Clr for CH on charm pets, better control on charm breaks (stuns) and arguable better group foundation.

Druid should be a distant 3rd.

It really depends on what level they are... Shaman are amazing at 60 decked out in epic/torpor/fungi, but aren't as hot leveling up. Druids (like Necros) suffer as they are Utility classes and become "diluted" as you add more group members, but they are very efficient solo/duo/trio'ing. I'd call Shaman a Utility class too, but one who's utilities are already covered by Necro+Ench.

There was a thread a few weeks ago asking about Ench/Sham and the general consensus was that Ench/Sham are amazing together end-game but Meh until then. That's probably months and ~200k+ away.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178742

I don't think adding Necro to the mix makes Shaman look any better. But, like I said, it depends where OP and his friends are at right now.

Duckwalk

02-10-2015, 04:36 PM

It really depends on what level they are... Shaman are amazing at 60 decked out in epic/torpor/fungi, but aren't as hot leveling up. Druids (like Necros) suffer as they are Utility classes and become "diluted" as you add more group members, but they are very efficient solo/duo/trio'ing.

There was a thread a few weeks ago asking about Ench/Sham and the general consensus was that Ench/Sham are amazing together end-game but Meh until then. That's probably months and ~200k+ away.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178742

I don't think adding Necro to the mix makes Shaman look any better. But, like I said, it depends where OP and his friends are at right now.

Compared to a a druid, a necro is going to add more efficient off heals/tapping, more common charm pets or summoned pet dmg and best in game mana regen to facilitate all their spells. Basically the only thing you get by going druid are thorns and ports which are common and cheap.

Since they are already set on enc and nec, this shifts the focus to whether they should pick clr or shm, as you yourself have recognized that enc clr or enc shm are the consensus most OP duos. Druid would be far distant third.

maskedmelon

02-10-2015, 04:47 PM

Since they are already set on enc and nec,

I believe this is the point that he was emphasizing at the end there, since enc/sham are not fabulous until leveled and geared, enc/nec(OP's setup) is benefitted no better.

This all of course depends on the OP's goal. They may never even see 60. That aside while both enc and sham can be incredibly powerful at end game their play styles do not necessarily compliment on another. Cleric would best compliment an enchanter for endgame farming, but we are not talking about a duo, we are discussing a trio and not a max level, geared trio either.

Your advice is sound, but so was his. It all just needs to be viewed in the context in which it was given.

Duckwalk

02-10-2015, 05:05 PM

I believe this is the point that he was emphasizing at the end there, since enc/sham are not fabulous until leveled and geared, enc/nec(OP's setup) is benefitted no better.

This all of course depends on the OP's goal. They may never even see 60. That aside while both enc and sham can be incredibly powerful at end game their play styles do not necessarily compliment on another. Cleric would best compliment an enchanter for endgame farming, but we are not talking about a duo, we are discussing a trio and not a max level, geared trio either.

Your advice is sound, but so was his. It all just needs to be viewed in the context in which it was given.

Yes, and my point was that a most of a druid's abilities are going already be covered by the necro and therefore it adds even less to the group than shm or clr.

And as far as synergizing, a shm will make better use of the necros health regen than a cleric.

Any melee class will generally be inferior to the charming/root rotting/fear kiting that they are already capable of thus:

Shm for better slows, mana regen, sow, general dps, and OPness once geared and 60.
Clr for CH, charm control, and arguable better group foundation.

Lictor

02-10-2015, 05:39 PM

Shaman or cleric, whatever your buddy wants to play. You will not always be outdoors or at a location to charm animal. Also, leveling outdoors gets old pretty quick and finding ports on blue is easy.

As previously mentioned, a shaman will suck the plat from the trio. Having duoed a shaman up with a melee partner on both of our first characters, the shaman ate the lion's share of the cash.

Crawdad

02-10-2015, 06:12 PM

Yes, and my point was that a most of a druid's abilities are going already be covered by the necro and therefore it adds even less to the group than shm or clr.

And as far as synergizing, a shm will make better use of the necros health regen than a cleric.

Any melee class will generally be inferior to the charming/root rotting/fear kiting that they are already capable of thus:

Shm for better slows, mana regen, sow, general dps, and OPness once geared and 60.
Clr for CH, charm control, and arguable better group foundation.

My point was basically that the Opportunity Cost of playing a Druid vs Cleric/Shaman comes down to what they're doing. If they're just having fun, not seriously farming plat camps, or don't even intend on hitting 60, that Druid is going to serve them better.

If they want to seriously "enjoy" (HAH) 60 then Cleric or Shaman would do better, and at that I think Cleric is better since it doesn't take 200k in gear to make a cleric shine.

I totally agree with you that at 60/geared to hell that Ench/Sham/Necro would be amazing, and that they all synergize very well--but I don't think that's where OP is or is heading.

..I also think Cleric and (especially low level/under-geared) Shaman are abysmally boring to play.

...Basically the only thing you get by going druid are thorns and ports which are common and cheap.

Druid is a very under appreciated class, so I don't doubt that this is how most people feel. It's wrong, but that's mostly all the lazy Druids' fault.

Duckwalk

02-10-2015, 06:13 PM

Majority of shm cost and twinking will be in the form of some kind of regen item as you won't be concerned with JBB or torpor till later lvls.

At level 20, a necro can provide 3.3 health/sec over 24 seconds.
At level 44, a necro can provide 13.5 health/sec over 24 seconds.
At level 54, a necro can provide 20.8 health/sec over 24 seconds.

All for the cost of 30 mana total and 20/85/125 health per cast. This gives them some of the most efficient heals/mana in the game allowing a shaman to fully exploit his canni line of spells for maximum mana regen.

And for the record, the regen on Rubicite BP, Ceremonial Iksar, and Fungi is 3/5/15.

Duckwalk

02-10-2015, 06:16 PM

My point was basically that the Opportunity Cost of playing a Druid vs Cleric/Shaman comes down to what they're doing. If they're just having fun, not seriously farming plat camps, or even intend on hitting 60, that Druid is going to serve them better.

If they want to seriously "enjoy" 60 (HAH) then Cleric or Shaman would do better, and at that I think Cleric is better since it doesn't take 200k in gear to make a cleric shine.

I totally agree with you that at 60/geared to hell that Ench/Sham/Necro would be amazing, and that they all synergize very well--but I don't think that's where OP is or is heading.

..I also think Cleric and (especially low level/under-geared) Shaman are abysmally boring to play.

I understand your point. I'm just suggesting that a enc, necro, druid group brings nothing that enc, nec, shm or clr offers with the exception of thorns and ports.

Essentially you're trading thorns and ports for much less flexible and powerful group.

Shaniril

02-10-2015, 06:38 PM

Shaman.

Crawdad

02-10-2015, 06:47 PM

I understand your point. I'm just suggesting that a druid, enc, necro group brings nothing that enc, nec, shm or clr offers with the exception of thorns and ports.

Essentially your trading thorns and ports for much less flexible and powerful group.

Evacs, another charmed pet, Track, Harmony, Sneak; there's plenty more too. Even ports are a good contribution to a group (especially three friends just starting out), I'm not sure why this keeps getting scoffed at. If anything, the Shaman brings less flexibility to a group, as nothing he brings isn't covered by Ench/Necro or Druid.. except woof woof. More power (eventually, at a price), Sure.

...Also I'm off work now, so I'll quit being contrary.

Good luck and let your friend play what He wants to play, not what a bunch of forum-goers swear is best™!

Duckwalk

02-10-2015, 07:09 PM

Personally I'd trade all that for just malo for charm pets, not to mention better slows and better mana regen.

Shaman are just better druid who lack ports.

simpo

02-11-2015, 09:40 AM

An an enchanter, I'd want a cleric. Some OK nukes, you all have some sort of crowd control, you all have good survivability, you will have rezzes for when things go bad and it seems like, as an enchanter who solos/duos a lot, health is the biggest danger for me. Enchanter/necro/cleric should be mana/health/damage sufficient, have crowd control, rezzes, and be able to make do with some sort of pet tank... what else is there to worry about? For the necro, the heals are great for obvious reasons and constant cleric buffs give them a bigger mana pool. You could just buff the crap out of the necro pet and keep a charmed enchanter pet for DPS... just heal when things go wrong, keep the necro topped up and throw some nukes in.

Shaman's buffs/debuffs aren't needed really in that group and a druid sounds tempting with the ports/sow, but you can just pay for ports/sow pots or get jboots eventually.

I see no reason for a tank, cleric could keep up a necro pet and the enchanter can charm stuff and keep the rest locked down... and if things really go bad the rest of your group has movement based crowd control at least too, so it's not like you need someone to get agro or even take damage.

If this third person doesn't want to play a cleric, I'd go with another another enchanter/necro, mage, monk or bard. Monk would be nice for pulling and is a constant DPS that you don't really have to worry over their health or them getting agro ... can't go wrong with two necros or a mage for extra pets and DPS... and another enchanter or a bard would just make for a really fun trio. Although realistically for loot you'd probably want to avoid doubling up on classes if you're going to play to 60 together.... that's something to think about.

pasi

02-11-2015, 08:06 PM

The good part about enchanter/necro/x is that once the team reaches level 34, the druid can go off to EC and start porting for 20pp a pop while the enc/necro xp. This will be very beneficial for buying the enchanter peridots in case the enchanter/necro opt for a high exp/low money camp.

Ando

02-11-2015, 08:52 PM

Enchanter/Necro/Cleric has the most potential in my opinion over all levels. Sure maybe late late endgame an Enchanter/Necro/Shaman or Enchanter/Shaman/Cleric combo could kill tougher shit, but a Shaman really isn't necessary.

You have hastes/slows with the enchanter, and buffs/healing with the cleric.

ctechguy

02-11-2015, 09:03 PM

street fighting gnome warrior who moonlights as a crooner and entertainer?

pasi

02-11-2015, 09:08 PM

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 12:27 PM

TLDR: cleric or shaman depending on preference and end game goals. Any other class going to be one dimensional dps addition (rogue or mage) or a just a weaker version (druid).

Unless you REALLY need your own ports.

pasi

02-12-2015, 12:40 PM

Yeah, I'd go shaman. Shaman/necro is a very strong duo at all levels in case the enchanter can't log on for whatever reason.

DrKvothe

02-12-2015, 01:22 PM

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 02:27 PM

Shm is a great choice for 50+, and so is cleric, but from 1-50 druid has them beat hands down. It's not a "weaker version", it's unquestionably a stronger version. Level in outdoor zones like the oasis, the karanas, LoIO, OT, FM, Kedge, etc. Rather than having a shaman slowing mobs, which isn't particularly effective until Togor's and that still costs 175 mana, use terrorize animal (30 mana) or the enchanter or necro fear line with snare. With the druid charming and necro using a more easily controlled pet instead of charming undead, the necro can be on top of cc, healing, twitching, etc. all the time. Mobs will melt, pulls will be constant, and you'll never ever die.

The high mob density areas of outdoor zones are much more frequently empty than the good exp camps in dungeons. You'll spend a lot less time looking for an open camp, you'll get many more kills per hour, you'll die a lot less often (snare, sow, and wide open spaces ftw). In practice, these more than make up for a poorer ZEM, unless you're willing to grab dungeon camps during off-hours and play for long continuous sessions. Normally it can be difficult to quickly put together a powerful trio like this for some outdoor zones, but y'all come pre-packaged so it's not an issue.

Not sure if serious.

Druids are hands down better than Shaman because they get cheap animal fear and snare?

You realize we are talking about a group where either the necro or enchanter can fear and the necro can snare? And both classes have access to clarity or best in game mana regen so the fact that the druid version is marginally cheaper is essentially worthless.

Sow? Shaman has that (and earlier).
Charm animals? Yup, Shaman gets that too as well as a controllable pet.

Shaman get all that while still having best in game slows, much better mana regen and malo (for all these charmed pets).

Literally, the only thing a druid would bring is ports and thorns (or aggro kiting if you want 1/3 of your dps just running the mob around.

Druid fail.

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 02:29 PM

Also, some shaman have snare clicky neck. Lol

Druids are port bots.

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 02:43 PM

Clerics potentially have access to fear and snare clicky too.

The point being though that all shm or clr, either group will be able to do outdoor stuff just as well while also having a more substantial and powerful foundation of dungeon groups.

DrKvothe

02-12-2015, 02:44 PM

Shaman pet dps is a joke, and animal charm even more so. Most shamans don't ever bother with it. First one is at lvl 29 and only works up to lvl 24 animals, so it's obsolete pretty much right away. The 34 spell works up to lvl 33 animals, which is obviously fine for a while but drops off pretty quickly.

What is the shaman doing before 40+, when it finally becomes worth casting slow? Crap dps and the same buffs a druid can offer.

If you're doing the unrest, mistmoore, CoM, KC route, or virtually any other standard ZEM-centric route, then druid will be a terrible choice. Let your druid pick the zones and you'll be pleasantly surprised when he matches the dps of your enchanter and necro while still providing sow/regen/etc.

Edit: and 6 second clicky snare is impractical for all the things that you actually need snare for. 6 seconds?

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 02:58 PM

Mana isn't an issue with canni, constant necro heals and clarity. Even discounting the massive mana advantage a shm will have, allowing for constant casting of nukes dots or other spells, I won't debate that some classes don't develop till 30+.

Assuming a druid is the best outdoor option for a enc/nec trio from 16 (charms) to 29-34ish, that's still an incredibly small fraction of the game.

Personally, I'd rather have a marginally less effective class for 15 early levels and then vastly more powerful class for the last 30+ levels.

Which was the entire point of the thread, which class will be the best addition to this group? Not only for outdoors level 16-29, and not only if fear kiting, but for the entirety of their EQ life.

DrKvothe

02-12-2015, 03:24 PM

I still think you're overstating the case for shaman before 50+, and only then because a) there aren't many spots for druids to shine in pet groups the way they do pre-50, and b) the necro pretty much has to charm at this point.

Off the top of my head, from 34+, you've got SolB, kedge, OT,and EJ with druid charmable pets. Are DL cockatrices druid-charmable? There's probably many more. The list gets very short from 50+.

A shaman will bring no dps to the group. Slowing is a more general-purpose form of damage control than snare/fear, since you can do it anywhere and on almost anything, but it's certainly not more efficient. Even with canni, clarity, regen-line, etc. a shaman won't have the mana to do much more than keep buffs up, spot heal during/after charm breaks, and slow mobs. If he does, you're pulling/killing too slowly, which I expect will be the case.

So which class will be the best addition to this group? Not just for 50+ and in the most overcrowded, overcamped dungeon spots using tactics meant for groups with tanks, but from the ground up and by whatever means best fit the trio? Dr00d.

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 03:38 PM

I think your overstating Druids charming capabilities. Solb bats for instance won't even be viable till late 40s/almost 50. There are far less charmable animals (especially in accessible zones or zones with good zem) than charmable undead..

And assuming any situation the druid is not charming, a shaman would be far preferable.

At 2 hastened charm pets alone will tear through just about anything they face as will a necro pet, charm pet and a single shm dot (or doggy). So really the issue isn't about adding dps but added utility.

A druid will bring thorns and ports.
A shaman will bring better slows, mana regen, and most importantly malo (for those charmed pets).

I don't think anyone is denying that a Druid would be a good trip partner but overall (outdoor, indoor, level 1-60), a shaman or cleric will end up being more effective.

Vexenu

02-12-2015, 05:03 PM

Yeah, I'd go shaman. Shaman/necro is a very strong duo at all levels in case the enchanter can't log on for whatever reason.

This is a really important point that shouldn't be overlooked, and while there are strong arguments for Cleric, Shaman and Druid to round out the trio, for this reason I think Shaman takes it.

Shaman can duo very well with both the Necro and the Enchanter if one of them isn't around.

The virtues of Shaman/Enchanter have already been elaborated on, but Shaman/Necro is an underappreciated duo, and as far as non-Ench power duos go I'd rank it right up there with Monk/Shaman and Epic Mage/Cleric, depending on the situation. You can root rot a ridiculous amount of mobs at once (one of the most impressive and annoying things I've seen was a Shm/Nec duo at seafuries pretty much killing the entire island by themselves, non-stop) and never run of out mana due to Shm epic + canni + necro heals, and the Necro overflowing with mana from the Shaman's regen. And tougher single target mobs can be tanked by the Shaman with slow while the Necro sends in the Rogue pet, stacks DoTs and feigns agro as needed. The classes synergize very well together and it's a very fun, active combo to play for both the Shaman and the Necro (i.e. compare to Mage/Cleric which is pretty monotonous for each, or Ench/Cleric where the Chanter does 90% of the work).

DrKvothe

02-12-2015, 08:02 PM

There's a lot of praise over shaman/enchanter duo, but I think it's greatly exaggerated pre-torpor. Basically you've got 2 general strategies that seem popular, although there's plenty of variations of each.

1) Shaman roots/slows, enchanter pet kills. Shaman can epic clicky for some added dps (Up to 16 dps, depending on the length of the fight) and jbb clicky to finish stuff off (doing this continuously costs a lot of med time and will break root a lot).

2) Enchanter charms something, runs it into a pack. Shaman and enchanter root everything very close to each other. The pack proceeds to slaughter the pet, enchanter breaks charm at low hp, charms a new pet, rinse and repeat, with shaman nuking down the low hp mobs.

Strategy 2 can just as easily be accomplished by a druid, so let's ignore that one. Both get clicky nukes, although the druid clicky nuke is aoe so that should probably only be used once all the remaining mobs are low hp, in case of root breaks. Either way, both classes will be using less mana for 1 root and 1 nuke per mob than the enchanter charming each mob.

Strategy 1 obviously requires a shaman. Is it better than fear kiting with enchanter and druid pets? Well, you're losing 50% of pet damage and gaining some clicky damage, if the shaman has an epic and/or JBB and is appropriately leveled (45 for jbb, 50 for epic). So no, it's not better. It's worse.

Post by Loraen:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=939559&postcount=3
Shaman/Enchanter is a powerhouse against very high-level mobs because of the dual MR debuffs and slows. When stuff hits for 250+ slow becomes extremely critical. But for leveling up it's good but not fantastic. In fact I would guess Druid/Enchanter would beat Shaman/Enchanter to 60 simply because there are so many zones where both can charm.

Druid + Necro isn't definitively worse than shaman + necro either. Plenty of undead dungeons are outdoor zones, and adding harmony to necro pulling tactics is pretty sick. Idk where you can both charm, but necro pet + druid charm is pretty great too.

Raev

02-12-2015, 08:43 PM

The problem with Dru/Nec/Enc is that there are very few zones with both animals and undead. In practice the Enchanter/Necromancer will be charming and the priest of some sort will be healing. There is just no reason to have a Druid over a Cleric or Shaman when you can get a port from 5 zones away by offering clarity and a small tip.

Personal opinion: go Cleric. 1-59 a Cleric will be much better at keeping two robes alive vs charmed pets (stun when they break, far better +HP buffs than shamans, 5k+ CH on pets, and rez when things go south as they will from time to time). At L60 the Shaman will probably be just a touch better for really tough stuff than the Cleric, but your trio will have a much easier time entering a guild with a highly desired Cleric than Shaman-who-thinks-he-is-gods-gift-to-EQ-because-he-has-torpor-number-57238923.

iruinedyourday

02-12-2015, 09:58 PM

Yea cleric is obviously going to be the most efficient in this trio, so much so that the necro is just a bonus.. you'll have no downtime if you have the cleric.. A shaman will need to med more often because slows & sup heal just don't compare to CH on mobs with large HP pools.

An enchanter and a Cleric will have no downtime.. a shaman and an enchanter always will, I've played both as the enchanter in this situation and as the shaman and I couldnt optimize my mana as the shaman to be as efficient as a Cleric.

Duckwalk

02-12-2015, 11:50 PM

There's a lot of praise over shaman/enchanter duo, but I think it's greatly exaggerated pre-torpor. Basically you've got 2 general strategies that seem popular, although there's plenty of variations of each.

1) Shaman roots/slows, enchanter pet kills. Shaman can epic clicky for some added dps (Up to 16 dps, depending on the length of the fight) and jbb clicky to finish stuff off (doing this continuously costs a lot of med time and will break root a lot).

2) Enchanter charms something, runs it into a pack. Shaman and enchanter root everything very close to each other. The pack proceeds to slaughter the pet, enchanter breaks charm at low hp, charms a new pet, rinse and repeat, with shaman nuking down the low hp mobs.

Strategy 2 can just as easily be accomplished by a druid, so let's ignore that one. Both get clicky nukes, although the druid clicky nuke is aoe so that should probably only be used once all the remaining mobs are low hp, in case of root breaks. Either way, both classes will be using less mana for 1 root and 1 nuke per mob than the enchanter charming each mob.

Strategy 1 obviously requires a shaman. Is it better than fear kiting with enchanter and druid pets? Well, you're losing 50% of pet damage and gaining some clicky damage, if the shaman has an epic and/or JBB and is appropriately leveled (45 for jbb, 50 for epic). So no, it's not better. It's worse.

Post by Loraen:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=939559&postcount=3

Druid + Necro isn't definitively worse than shaman + necro either. Plenty of undead dungeons are outdoor zones, and adding harmony to necro pulling tactics is pretty sick. Idk where you can both charm, but necro pet + druid charm is pretty great too.

We're talking about trios not duos

iruinedyourday

02-13-2015, 12:40 AM

Heh for that #2 strat above ^^ I would recommend a Paly to "run a mob into the pack" as your 3rd

Master Roshi

02-13-2015, 02:01 AM

is druid track of any value still? That could be a deciding factor between dru and shammy.

iruinedyourday

02-13-2015, 04:31 AM

is druid track of any value still? That could be a deciding factor between dru and shammy.

hehe I like the idea of that trio running around outdoor zones doing mob cycles :D

Victorio

02-13-2015, 08:30 AM

With this trio, charm is the name of the game. When you've got dual wielding, hasted charm pets, the big extra hp and healing provided by a cleric is invaluable. Then you add in their stuns, undead nukes, lulls, roots, fears, and of course rezzes.

Messianic

02-13-2015, 09:49 AM

Ranger

maskedmelon

02-13-2015, 09:59 AM

I cannot help, but chuckle at all the suggestions that all Duids have over Shaman is ports and thorns. That is like saying all Shaman have over Druids is AGI and CHA buffs... Really? ^^

Pyrion

02-13-2015, 10:37 AM

I still would consider mage. You get malo. You get a really great pet, all the time, without the need to charm. In close quarters you can even have a pet that constantly roots. This pet is very disposable and quick to replace. Mage is a great nuker as well + COTH. DPS wise a mage might be the best option.

Crawdad

02-13-2015, 10:41 AM

You can pretty much ignore anyone who mentions slow overlap as a reason to not pair a shaman/enchanter. Getting non-trivial mobs slowed is 2/3 the battle. With a shaman and enchanter, you got more resist debuffs with 2 people casting slow on cool down. It's probably the main reason enchanter/shaman is better than enchanter/cleric for slowable moblins.

What non-trivial mobs are you facing with Cleric/Necro/Ench that you need a second slow attempt? Between the crazy amount of CC the three have, I'm skeptical but also ignorant of what you might struggle against.

(Bard>)Cleric>Druid>Shaman 1-59
(Bard>)Cleric>Shaman>Druid 60