Rogue Questions...

[nsob0331]

Hello P99, I currently have a 35 shaman as my main, and while he is fun, since about level 6 I have longed to get back on the melee side of things. I am interested in building a rogue as an alt, but have a few questions/concerns...

-First off, what makes a rogue tick (why did/do/would you play one)?

-Are rogues "gimped" (moreso than other classes)? I understand that rogues are not a solo class and require groups, but what I am really wondering is are there any future patches/fixes/changes/nerfs/whatevers in the classic timeline that will drastically alter their roles and/or capabilities?

-How useful are the current rogue abilities (sense traps, pick locks, disarm traps)?

-Does make/apply poison work as intended on P99? (I saw some people talking about it in /ooc a while back and it sounded like something was broken)

-Do rogues actually use their make/apply poison skills, or is it just a novelty? I don't think I've ever really seen it come up in game or on the forums, other than that one discussion in /ooc...

-I understand rogues are a pretty gear dependant class (as with most melee classess) are there any essential quests or gear that I should be on the look out for? I have some basic twink items to work with (mithril bp, silver plated legs, 5/55 rings, exe hood, DWB, azure sleeves, SBD) that should hopefully get me into my 20-30's. Also, no FBSS/haste items...is that going to affect my ability to get groups?

-In general, what types of weapons should a rogue be using? Obviously at least a piercer in main hand, but procs or no procs? Or is that entirely situational?

-Starting stats? I know 9/10 times that regardless of what class it is, people will say, "Dump it all in STA and the rest doesn't matter"...does the same hold true here?

-Any other advice/tips/info/opinions?

Any input or help on any of these topics would be a great help, and greatly appreciated. Thanks and happy hunting

[Dominick]

A rogue is all skill. Practice every skill and keep them up. Be anal retentive. Don't just sit there in EC< work on a skill.

You have to avoid aggro, while keeping high DPS in a group. SOmetimes you pull while sneaking, sometimes you are the key, sometimes you also are the trap disabler.

Use hide to evade during a fight. I make a macro key with:
/attack off
/(hide ability)
I usually put in a sneak

I also make one with
/(backstab)
/attack off
/(hide ability)
/attack on

Pick where you stand, behind the mob is one place, to the side is Ok as long as you can move to back stab.

You do not back stab as often as it refreshes, you back stab as often as you can without getting aggro. When you get aggro keep evading until the mob goes back to the tank. Sometimes when the mob turns around I backstab again, just to make the tank work harder on his taunt.

Higher levels try duoing with a ranger or necro, use their snare and your intimidate, for back stabbing chasing goodness.

[Noselacri]

-Are rogues "gimped" (moreso than other classes)? I understand that rogues are not a solo class and require groups, but what I am really wondering is are there any future patches/fixes/changes/nerfs/whatevers in the classic timeline that will drastically alter their roles and/or capabilities?

Before Kunark, rogues sort of suck. It's not a horrible class to play, but it doesn't stand out much and adds virtually nothing besides raw damage to a group. Monks are better DPS, as are casters generally, and the commonly available piercing weapons aren't impressive. This all changes in Kunark where a few class mechanic changes and the easily-achieved rogue epic makes the class much, much stronger. From then on, it's more or less the top DPS, possibly tied with one or two other classes depending on content and gear bracket.

-How useful are the current rogue abilities (sense traps, pick locks, disarm traps)?

Not much use right now. The trap skills will never be worth anything, and pick lock is highly situational at best; it becomes a little better in Kunark where a few places requre a rogue or a hard-to-get key, but all in all, rogue utility rarely amounts more to dragging corpses while stealthed.

-Does make/apply poison work as intended on P99? (I saw some people talking about it in /ooc a while back and it sounded like something was broken)

Don't really know, but I've never seen anyone use it.

-Do rogues actually use their make/apply poison skills, or is it just a novelty? I don't think I've ever really seen it come up in game or on the forums, other than that one discussion in /ooc...

In my opinion, poisons are nearly useless. The snare one might have the very rare application in an extremely unlikely scenario, but I have played several rogues throughout the years and have never even bothered to train the skill. It is by no means a crucial element of the class, and I'd call it a novelty.

-I understand rogues are a pretty gear dependant class (as with most melee classess) are there any essential quests or gear that I should be on the look out for? I have some basic twink items to work with (mithril bp, silver plated legs, 5/55 rings, exe hood, DWB, azure sleeves, SBD) that should hopefully get me into my 20-30's. Also, no FBSS/haste items...is that going to affect my ability to get groups?

The Burning Rapier (or whatever) quest works, and that's a pretty decent weapon. Can't think of any other rogue quests off the top of my head. You'll want to look into getting a Polished Steel Dirk (8/23 piercing) as it is pretty much the best ratio you'll find prior to raid loot. SBD are alright until they proc, at which point you should look into new weapons as the proc is pretty useless and generates huge aggro. I've never seen anyone rejected because of gear, but if you're still in banded at 47 for some reason, people might start to raise eyebrows. I've never even had someone inspect me before they would invite me on my warrior, and I don't have a haste item either. You should have no problems unless you end up being truly worthlessly geared; don't try to raid ToV without a haste item, if you somehow got that far without one. :P

-In general, what types of weapons should a rogue be using? Obviously at least a piercer in main hand, but procs or no procs? Or is that entirely situational?

Procs are fine if they don't have inherently high aggro. Anything that procs a plain DD or a DoT is good, but stay the hell away from stuns, snares and debuffs like the ones on SBD and Obsidian Shard. You can use a different type of weapon in your off-hand if you like, but I don't think there are any at this point that make it specifically worthwhile. In Kunark you could use something like Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn, and probably several other similar weapons.

-Starting stats? I know 9/10 times that regardless of what class it is, people will say, "Dump it all in STA and the rest doesn't matter"...does the same hold true here?

That was only ever really true if you fully intended to become a raider. In later expansions stats became easily maxed, but even in Velious it takes serious gear to max them all to the point where only stamina is worthwhile. If you're the kind of guy who will be wearing mostly buyable/groupable gear, you could probably put your stats most anywhere, but stamina is a good idea if you want to be sure to avoid ever having wasted the points in case you get raid gear some day. I would consider dex, though, since stamina returns for rogue are unimpressive and you're never going to tank anything. Dex affects proc rates and, supposedly, backstab accuracy. Strength might technically be better, but that stat becomes maxable in Kunark with fairly modest gear, so that would quickly become a waste unless you make a wood elf or something silly like that.

[Dominick]

In my opinion, poisons are nearly useless. The snare one might have the very rare application in an extremely unlikely scenario, but I have played several rogues throughout the years and have never even bothered to train the skill. It is by no means a crucial element of the class, and I'd call it a novelty.


I agree with this, I also dont like proc weapons (builds aggro) except the dagger that procs engulfing darkness. Thats a snare and will give you a little help if you have to run, or if you use intimidate.

[Shiftin]

i pretty routinely get out DPS'd by monks with or without weapons at 35 with SBD + Burning rapier and above average strength, plus those monks can tank, pull and avoid most of the deaths i take. nice life.

anyway, what's the deal with disarm? I've tried it on every enemy with a weapon for the last week and never gotten a success or fail message or actual disarm. Does it work on p1999?

[G13]

I think disarm is broken here

At least it used to be

[nsob0331]

Thanks very much for the input guys. One other question... Is diety choice going to affect a rogue at all? With the DE illusion mask for example, if I follow a "good" diety will the dark elves see through it? What about agnostic? Thanks again =)

[Dominick]

Thanks very much for the input guys. One other question... Is diety choice going to affect a rogue at all? With the DE illusion mask for example, if I follow a "good" diety will the dark elves see through it? What about agnostic? Thanks again =)

Agnostic or Bristlebane, they will see deity IIRC.

[Arkanjil]

Rogues are unimportant until 60 or they are needed to scout/cr. What? ;)

[Eccentricaa]

The trap skills will never be worth anything, and pick lock is highly situational at best.

Lock pick can come in handy.. Of course its situational, because there are not locks everywhere. But when there is one, that needs to be picked, I'd prefer the rogue in our group to be able to accomplish it.

There are not many traps in the game, but there are a few key ones that disarm does makes life easier. The bridge in Charok, as your plowing to the Royals, for example.

IMO, nothing looks worse than a rogue that cant open a door. It shows how little time you have invested in your character.

[Ridic]

IMO, nothing looks worse than a rogue that cant open a door. It shows how little time you have invested in your character.

Rogue's can pick locks? Sick!

[Hasbinbad]

@OP

People are spinning you a bunch of yarns.

Rogues are the best dps over time on this server, with the exception of enchanter charmed pets (which can be fairly dangerous). Whatever twat said monks out dps rogues is invited to run a parser with me any fucking time.

Get a non-proc'ing weapon combination, and you should be able to stab every time it refreshes, assuming that you evade EVERY time it refreshes.

Make a barbarian, dump into stamina. STR is easy to get to 188 (+67 from shm buff = 255 cap), and sta is the only other stat you need to worry about. Spec your gear to str 188 and then the rest to hps. Don't make some other race unless you're an RP fag (like me, who made a dwarf for nostalgia). Slam alone is worth having to look like a barbarian instead of that "leet" half elf, or whatever your gay roommate says you should play - not to mention the amazing starting stats. Dwarves are a close second or even superior with stats but do not have slam. These should really be the only races you choose from.

Pick up a gloom poon. Max damage stat in mainhand is #1 priority. Offhand is pure ratio. Don't let anyone tell you different. If you can get someone to kill phinny for you, the TotSS is a nice mainhand till you can nab an eyerazzia or even better a crystalline spear. Other than TotSS, don't ever use a proc weapon, they are not worth it. If you DO obtain the trident, watch your aggro more.

I've never used find/disarm traps. Disarm is broken. Pick locks is only currently useful for najena and befallen I think? So it's really not useful. However, you will be very thankful you skilled it up now when kunark comes out.

Poisons are working as they did during the classic era of live. That is to say they are a fun but fairly useless toy in PvE. PvP is another story, and a lot of the debuff poisons can be extremely useful. They function as a one-off weapon proc. You apply, it procs (with a chance to fail) on the very first hit, and is gone.

Don't evade using a macro, do it manually. It's faster and never fucks up. You don't need to sneak in order to evade.

Uhh.. Yeah. Rogues are not gimped at all. They are fairly "as intended" on this server, and if you enjoy the melee glass cannon playstyle, you will be well rewarded.

[Ridic]

@OP

People are spinning you a bunch of yarns.

Rogues are the best dps over time on this server, with the exception of enchanter charmed pets (which can be fairly dangerous). Whatever twat said monks out dps rogues is invited to run a parser with me any fucking time.

Get a non-proc'ing weapon combination, and you should be able to stab every time it refreshes, assuming that you evade EVERY time it refreshes.

Make a barbarian, dump into stamina. STR is easy to get to 188 (+67 from shm buff = 255 cap), and sta is the only other stat you need to worry about. Spec your gear to str 188 and then the rest to hps. Don't make some other race unless you're an RP fag (like me, who made a dwarf for nostalgia). Slam alone is worth having to look like a barbarian instead of that "leet" half elf, or whatever your gay roommate says you should play - not to mention the amazing starting stats. Dwarves are a close second or even superior with stats but do not have slam. These should really be the only races you choose from.

Pick up a gloom poon. Max damage stat in mainhand is #1 priority. Offhand is pure ratio. Don't let anyone tell you different. If you can get someone to kill phinny for you, the TotSS is a nice mainhand till you can nab an eyerazzia or even better a crystalline spear. Other than TotSS, don't ever use a proc weapon, they are not worth it. If you DO obtain the trident, watch your aggro more.

I've never used find/disarm traps. Disarm is broken. Pick locks is only currently useful for najena and befallen I think? So it's really not useful. However, you will be very thankful you skilled it up now when kunark comes out.

Poisons are working as they did during the classic era of live. That is to say they are a fun but fairly useless toy in PvE. PvP is another story, and a lot of the debuff poisons can be extremely useful. They function as a one-off weapon proc. You apply, it procs (with a chance to fail) on the very first hit, and is gone.

Don't evade using a macro, do it manually. It's faster and never fucks up. You don't need to sneak in order to evade.

Uhh.. Yeah. Rogues are not gimped at all. They are fairly "as intended" on this server, and if you enjoy the melee glass cannon playstyle, you will be well rewarded.

This is what I thought, I was pretty sure they were the best sustainted, single target dps in the game - whole reason I rolled one. I didn't dumb everything to stam tho, it was about half and half. Sitting at 199 str unbuffed tho, makes it easy in groups for me.

[azeth]

id suggest getting a PSD and your burning rapier asap. beyond that i wholly concur w/ hasbinbad

[Absentia]

My evade is a macro and I notice 0 difference in it "fucking up" or being slower.

-First off, what makes a rogue tick (why did/do/would you play one)?
We dominate DPS. If a melee out damages you over a fight, you should be upset.

-Are rogues "gimped"?
No. Rogues are amazing. We rock the house on dps. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

-How useful are the current rogue abilities?
None of those ever matter. Backstab + Evade and we are invited to guilds/groups.

-Does make/apply poison work as intended on P99?
I have my poison skill almost capped. Not worth wasting your money on, imo.

-Do rogues actually use their make/apply poison skills, or is it just a novelty?
Novelty.

-I understand rogues are a pretty gear dependant class (as with most melee classess) are there any essential quests or gear that I should be on the look out for?
Don't listen to all the idiots saying "roll a Barbarian!" or "roll a dwarf!" Play what race you think looks badass. You will cap strength regardless of race. The 50hp you gain for some added STA means nothing when you get hit with a 600 dmg ae constantly. Sure, it helps, but its laughable.

Do your Burning Rapier quest, do CT for Ravenscale Armor, get into a guild and do PoHate for your Woven Shadow. PoFear drops Bone Razor and Eyerazzia

-In general, what types of weapons should a rogue be using? Obviously at least a piercer in main hand, but procs or no procs? Or is that entirely situational?
Early on: Polished Steel Dirk in MH and whatever else offhand. Don't worry about weapons. Hit 46 and get Eyerazia and quest Burning Rapier earlier. Then just wait for Vox Spear/Freeti Spear and Bone Razor.


-Starting stats?
Stamina.

-Any other advice/tips/info/opinions?
Regardless of how many people talk about Rogues here, you don't need to twink it, they aren't "hard" to play(you mash backstab and hit your evade hotkey), and keep in mind you aren't a tank. If you want advice, PM me

[Hasbinbad]

-What have we learned today class?
Absentia is an RP fag.

(see, I can talk in bold too)

[Hasbinbad]

id suggest getting a PSD and your burning rapier asap. beyond that i wholly concur w/ hasbinbad
Burning rapier is a fun quest, but imho, the aggro from the proc isn't worth the small ratio upgrade from other similar offhands. Gloom Poon and PSD >.

[azeth]

Burning rapier is a fun quest, but imho, the aggro from the proc isn't worth the small ratio upgrade from other similar offhands. Gloom Poon and PSD >.

tbh i never went with the gloom poon, was fortunate to do the EBW quest so i used that + psd

[Ridic]

Burning rapier is a fun quest, but imho, the aggro from the proc isn't worth the small ratio upgrade from other similar offhands. Gloom Poon and PSD >.

Elemental procs have a much lower aggro modifier then magical based (Stuns, slows, debuffs etc) so you would really only pull aggro if you're grouped with a worthless warrior that doesn't use Lariats or Shards. I can't speak from experience, since I haven't used / got a BR yet, but, that's just what I would assume /shrug.

[Hasbinbad]

Elemental procs have a much lower aggro modifier then magical based (Stuns, slows, debuffs etc) so you would really only pull aggro if you're grouped with a worthless warrior that doesn't use Lariats or Shards. I can't speak from experience, since I haven't used / got a BR yet, but, that's just what I would assume /shrug.
Well I come from the exact opposite end of this debate, in that I dunno anything about the mechanics, and only know about this stuff from actually doing it.. I noticed that with the BRapier in offhand, I would generally generate more aggro than with a gold plated koshigatana (vs a non-summoned mob). Also, the trident (elemental as well?) generates more aggro than crystalline spear by FAR.

Sooooo, I only know anecdotal things, but it seemed fairly cut and dry to me.

[Ridic]

Well I come from the exact opposite end of this debate, in that I dunno anything about the mechanics, and only know about this stuff from actually doing it.. I noticed that with the BRapier in offhand, I would generally generate more aggro than with a gold plated koshigatana (vs a non-summoned mob). Also, the trident (elemental as well?) generates more aggro than crystalline spear by FAR.

Sooooo, I only know anecdotal things, but it seemed fairly cut and dry to me.

So, from that end, would just getting a EBW for the Offhand, and using PSD in main be better then Poon MH/PSD OH?

[Slayde]

Make a barbarian, dump into stamina. STR is easy to get to 188 (+67 from shm buff = 255 cap), and sta is the only other stat you need to worry about. Spec your gear to str 188 and then the rest to hps. Don't make some other race unless you're an RP fag (like me, who made a dwarf for nostalgia). Slam alone is worth having to look like a barbarian instead of that "leet" half elf, or whatever your gay roommate says you should play - not to mention the amazing starting stats. Dwarves are a close second or even superior with stats but do not have slam. These should really be the only races you choose from.



Its true, if your purely stat based barbarians make the best rogues. But I still think the stats alone arent worth being a big bumbling thug. Unless of course thats what you want hehe. Its not that hard to compensate for low starting stats. Also Hasbin, you can't deny im pretty "leet" for a half elf =P

Also unless its been fixed in the past few months and I didnt notice. Sense/disarm traps does not work. Back in feb/march I was doing everything I could to practice those (axe gullotine in SolA for example) and they never went up in skill. I think its like disarm, just borked.

[Lazortag]

That's weird, I have sense traps maxed out on my Bard. It's just that it's never actually sensed a trap.

[Slayde]

After logging in and checking, your right Lazortag. Apparently I maxed my sense traps as well and forgot. I guess its just disarm traps thats broken hehe

[Hasbinbad]

So, from that end, would just getting a EBW for the Offhand, and using PSD in main be better then Poon MH/PSD OH?
No. 10dam > 8dam in mainhand.

[Hasbinbad]

Its true, if your purely stat based barbarians make the best rogues. But I still think the stats alone arent worth being a big bumbling thug. Unless of course thats what you want hehe. Its not that hard to compensate for low starting stats. Also Hasbin, you can't deny im pretty "leet" for a half elf =P

Also unless its been fixed in the past few months and I didnt notice. Sense/disarm traps does not work. Back in feb/march I was doing everything I could to practice those (axe gullotine in SolA for example) and they never went up in skill. I think its like disarm, just borked.
You have sick gear, so you can get your str up, but how many hps do you have, and how many hps WOULD you have if you didn't need to compensate for low starting str? It's not JUST the X # of hps you get from the race, it's how many items you have to use for str that you could have used for hps..

That being said, IF you never get hit, you're just as effective as any rogue of any race with the same str/weapon profile. That's a pretty big if tho! :D

[Nox]

Well I come from the exact opposite end of this debate, in that I dunno anything about the mechanics, and only know about this stuff from actually doing it.. I noticed that with the BRapier in offhand, I would generally generate more aggro than with a gold plated koshigatana (vs a non-summoned mob). Also, the trident (elemental as well?) generates more aggro than crystalline spear by FAR.

Sooooo, I only know anecdotal things, but it seemed fairly cut and dry to me.
I’m the same way. I go with what I see works the best during combat. When our ‘usual’ tank is around, he can keep aggro even if I wield my proc’ing SBD. I know it’s a sin to use a SBD after lvl 26, but I have no problems. When our tank is absent, I have to switch to a Obsidian Shard or some non-proc’ing weapon to avoid aggro.

Pick up a gloom poon. Max damage stat in mainhand is #1 priority. Offhand is pure ratio. Don't let anyone tell you different. If you can get someone to kill phinny for you, the TotSS is a nice mainhand till you can nab an eyerazzia or even better a crystalline spear. Other than TotSS, don't ever use a proc weapon, they are not worth it. If you DO obtain the trident, watch your aggro more.

This is where I get a little confused. I thought you wanted to have a lower delay in your mainhand, and for that reason, my Gloomwater harpoon is in my offhand. I wield an Obsidian Shard, a SBD, or Jambiya in my mainhand, atm. Should I switch those around?

Burning rapier is a fun quest, but imho, the aggro from the proc isn't worth the small ratio upgrade from other similar offhands. Gloom Poon and PSD >.
And this is why I have yet to complete the entire questline.

[azeth]

This is where I get a little confused. I thought you wanted to have a lower delay in your mainhand, and for that reason, my Gloomwater harpoon is in my offhand. I wield an Obsidian Shard, a SBD, or Jambiya in my mainhand, atm. Should I switch those around.

Yes, you need to switch those.

[Ridic]

No. 10dam > 8dam in mainhand.

Poon is only 9dmg, and the PSD's ration is crazy better. Is why I ask.

[Ridic]

This is where I get a little confused. I thought you wanted to have a lower delay in your mainhand, and for that reason, my Gloomwater harpoon is in my offhand. I wield an Obsidian Shard, a SBD, or Jambiya in my mainhand, atm. Should I switch those around?


Best ratio weapon goes in your OH. Always. And Highest Damage(to dly) weapon should be mainhanded, for higher backstabs.
That's why Bone Razor is the best choice for OH in the game atm.

http://common.allakhazam.com/images/c/8/c8a1dea2825ad4c9ed538e8ec75c862e.png

[Noselacri]

Rogues are the best dps over time on this server, with the exception of enchanter charmed pets (which can be fairly dangerous). Whatever twat said monks out dps rogues is invited to run a parser with me any fucking time.

If that's the case, the mechanics are not working as intended here. Rogues were not universally top DPS until Kunark, and until you got amazing weapons, they weren't even that great pre-Kunark. You DPS like a warrior -crit +backstab; monk fists end up 14/30 at 50, their dual wield caps higher, and flying kick is barely behind backstab until 12+ dmg piercers. Magician pets match rogues in auto-attack, necro pets might also, and then you add the spells cast by the owner. Level 60 and 15dmg piercers is where rogues start to come into their own. If your parsers show something else, it's the emulator being generous to rogues.

And whatever twat recommends using a 9/31 weapon over an 8/23 is invited to run a parser and learn some basic combat facts. Backstab is a small portion of rogue DPS until epic and double backstab.

[Nox]

@azeth and Ridic - Thanks! It looks like I got some bad advice. I was told that even though the harpoon had 9 DMG (with 31 Delay), using my 8 DMG (with 27 Delay) weapon in my main hand would be a better choice because the main hand attacks much more frequently than the offhand; therefore, with the lower delay time, I would get more stabs in over the course of a fight and more damage over the long run because of the shorter delay. I guess that person was wrong.

[Ridic]

You DPS like a warrior -crit +backstab;

Crit dmg isn't anywhere near as much dmg as Backstab, and happens maybe.. 1/3 as much? Yea, that's a really bad example - lol. I land a BS 3-4 times a fight, I critted maybe once? a fight, with my warrior - 2-3 if I was lucky or berserking.

Mainly because, as a warrior - even twinked, you have to devote everything to either 1) Holding Aggro or 2) Surviving. As a rogue you focus on one thing... DAMAGE. So, your str is maxed - and you will always out damage a warrior

[Icecometus]

One thing to keep in mind is that in classic rogues get +10 piercing skill so it is best to use a Piercer in you MH and OH when ever possible.

[Hasbinbad]

herp derp
..for some reason I remembered poon as a 10 damage piercer - been a while here guys!
Ummm.
Maybe the psd is better than a poon in mainhand, but I would test it before I'd bet on it. FYI Noselacri, on p99, the crystalline spear (13/30) out dps's skull fanged stiletto (12/22) by far (according to parse), and that is a similar ratio downgrade per damage stat increase. ..before you go calling me a twat sir, I invite you to run a parser and learn some basic fucking combat mechanics as they apply to p99. Bitch.

In general on p99: sacrifice ratio in mainhand for a higher damage stat, and ratio is king in offhand. There is no rule about needing a low-delay or high delay weapon in either hand outside of generally wanting a better ratio, especially in the offhand.

@Nox I do not believe that delay affects rate of backstab, although I haven't tested this. However, I do believe that haste does affect rate of backstab, and would be interested in seeing some data to corroborate or disprove this hypothesis.

[liveitup1216]

I definitely remember haste affecting combat abilities for as long as I can remember, not sure if thats here also since I havn't gotten my melee alts to a point where I'm getting hasted in groups :cool:

[Trimm]

Just adding my opinion on a few things and how they work on P99, as I never played a rogue on live:

I used a Burning Rapier on my offhand for probably three months and never found it to pull any sort of extra aggro due to the proc. I assume it does somewhat, but it was never enough to be noticed. That includes using it in Fear/Hate/Sky where aggro is a big deal.

I've always been of the school that top damage in main hand and best ratio in offhand does a good rogue make. The best combo in the game for a rogue is the Efreeti Warspear/Bone Razor.

Backstab refresh is 8 seconds. With Swift Like the Wind it is significantly lower.

Just my opinions.

[Hasbinbad]

Has anyone nabbed a war spear yet trimm?

[Zilo]

Im a ranger, and I out dps most rogues, jus sayin =P ......but i have to have a fuckin dog do most of the damage =(

[Zilo]

o hasbinbad, by "war spear" do you mean that efreeti war spear? if so yes, if not then i totally misread the question to trimm hehe

[Trimm]

I think there is at least one in IB, I'm not sure who has it.

[Ponden]

Otto has a 'freeti spear, I think. Can't remember.

[Ridic]

One actually dropped? Sick...

Zilo, you don't count. You and your 1hp pet!

[Nox]

@Nox I do not believe that delay affects rate of backstab, although I haven't tested this. However, I do believe that haste does affect rate of backstab, and would be interested in seeing some data to corroborate or disprove this hypothesis.
I switched my Gloomwater Harpoon to my main hand last night and used an Obsidian Shard or Jambiya in my offhand, depending on whether I wanted to use a proc or not. No problems with aggro at all.

As far as delay affecting rate of backstab, I did not notice a difference. Now, I don't have any hard data to back that up, but I seemed to be able to backstab just as often as before even though the poon's delay is greater. I did notice an overall delay in normal attacks, but that is to be expected.

Also, as expected, increasing my main hand weapon damage from 8 to 9, did increase my backstab amount. I think I was maxing out around 86 points where I was only getting 81 before making the switch.

[LordAlpha]

As a noob to EQ my opinion may not be worth much, that being said here goes.

my 30 rog MH gloom OH PSD I BS for over 100 with barb race and 179 str without buffs. I have no haste items, I get roughly 2-3 BS a fight depending on con of mob/ group classes. Rog is the best dps hands down I easily take 30-40% of total HP of a mob alone between BS and dmg output without haste. If I switch for faster dmg output I lose a great deal of BS dmg. I have yet to use a proc weapon, and have rare issue of aggro. Which is easily solved by turning off atk moving back two steps and re-engaging, sneak hide macro does not always remove agro , it can fail even trained as high as lvl permits. Turning off atk always removes agro for me , I take maybe two to 6 hits during this if the tank is having agro control problems. Normally I do not care because I can take the hits until tank can regain agro. While still dealing massive dmg , which is the goal of the DPS role in the group anyway.

[guineapig]

Make sure you create a separate macro for stealth and evade.

Stealth is just hide followed by sneak while standing still while with evade you turn off atatck first, then hide. I tend to shove other skills in my macros as well such as sense heading (till it's maxed) and sense traps.

A nice tool I use on my rogue is to setup audio triggers to let me know what my abilities are doing so I don't have to keep checking the text spam in my combat window.

For example I get a chime when I have successfully hidden myself and a different chime when I am successfully sneaking. When ever either of those fail I get a loud thud sound. So when I hit stealth I know right away if both skills worked or not.

I also have a different audio sound for when I managed to evade from combat (and another thud sound if the evade failed).

I also created an audio trigger for when I get caught pickpocketing.

While these audio triggers aren't quite as vital for a rogue as they are for other classes it's still nice to have and so easy to set up while your LFG or waiting for a port or what ever.